HARASSMENT PREVENTION AND
RESPONSE. WE'VE HAD A SERIES OF
VERY. INTERESTING AND
ELIMINATING HEARINGS DEALING
WITH THIS ISSUE AND TODAY IS
GOING TO BE I THINK A. VERY
IMPORTANT PIECE OF OF THE PUZZLE
OF PUTTING TOGETHER A. A BETTER
POLICY FOR THE LEGISLATURE
SOMETHING THAT I THINK WILL BE A
MODEL FOR. OTHER LEGISLATURES
AND OTHER ORGANIZATIONS ACROSS
THE COUNTRY. AND TODAY WE'RE
GOING TO BE TALKING ABOUT.
INVESTIGATIONS INTO PROCESS AND
ACCOUNTABILITY WHICH ARE VERY
MUCH AT THE HEART OF OF WHAT A
GOOD POLICY HAS TO CONTAIN. ARM.
WITHOUT I WILL SEE IF ANY OF THE
OTHER COMMITTEE MEMBERS HAVE ANY
COMMENTS BEFORE WE BEGIN.
VICE CHAIRMAN THANK YOU VERY
MUCH MADAM CHAIR THANK YOU AGAIN
ON THIS IS OUR FOURTH HEARING I
JOKINGLY TOLD YOU FELT LIKE THE
SEVENTY NINE.
JUST BECAUSE.
I APPRECIATE BEING ON THIS
COMMITTEE APPRECIATE HAVING A
SPACE TO REALLY BEGIN TO DELVE
DEEP AND HAVE CONSTRUCTIVE
CONVERSATIONS ABOUT SOLUTIONS.
ALL I KNOW THAT WE ALL. ARE
ENGAGED IN CONVERSATIONS WE HEAR
HIM ABOUT THE CRITICISMS ABOUT
THE LEGISLATURE BOTH THE
ASSEMBLY AND THE SENATE. IN
TERMS OF HOW WE GOT TO THIS
PLACE.
AND CRITIQUES ABOUT OUR PROCESS
SEES THIS FAR AND THAT'S WHY I'M
GLAD THAT THIS COMMITTEE WAS
FORMED AND THAT WE'RE ALL
WORKING COLLECTIVELY. TO MOVE
FROM CRITICISMS TO SOLUTIONS
ULTIMATELY TO IMPLEMENTATION FOR
THANK YOU VERY MUCH AND. IT'S A
PLEASURE TO BE HERE ON THE
FOURTEENTH TODAY'S CONVERSATION.
YOU ANY OTHER MEMBERS. OF THE
SENATE ARE NOW.
OKAY WITH THAT WE ARE EXTREMELY
LUCKY AND VERY HONORED TO BE
JOINED TODAY BY RETIRED SUPREME
COURT JUSTICE ARE THE HONORABLE
CARLOS MORENO.
TO ADDRESS US ABOUT THE TOPICS
WE'VE BEEN DISCUSSING I KNOW
THAT HIS EXPERIENCE AND HIS
EXTREMELY THOUGHTFUL AND WELL
RESPECTED APPROACH. HE'S COME ON
UP ARE GOING TO.
SERVICE VERY WELL AND I I
REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR TAKING
THE TIME TO TO COME BE WITH US
TODAY.
WITH THAT THE FLOOR IS YOURS.
THANK YOU MADAM CHAIR MADAM.
VICE CHAIR. IT IS INDEED A
PLEASURE. TO BE HERE. OF I WAS
ASKED BY THE COMMITTEE STAFF.
TO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT.
THE ISSUE THAT'S BEFORE YOU BUT
ALSO TO.
SPEAK IN GENERAL TERMS.
ABOUT THE. CONDUCT THAT CAN
CONSTITUTE THE SHUCKS SEXUAL
HARASSMENT. OF A BROAD ARRAY OF
SANCTIONS THAT WE WOULD BE
AVAILABLE TWENTY EDUCATE OF.
BODY.
THE QUESTION OF A DUE PROCESS
AND HOW IT MIGHT APPLY.
IN A SYSTEM OF A DISCIPLINE.
OF THE TYPES OF APPROVING
BURDENS OF PROOF THAT WOULD BE.
NEEDED TO SUPPORT ANY KIND OF
IMPOSITION OF SANCTIONS.
AND THEN. FINALLY SOMETHING
ABOUT THE SPECIAL CASE. OF A
ELECTED OFFICIALS.
AND I WAS ALSO ASKED TO TALK A
LITTLE BIT ABOUT.
.
SPRINT SYSTEM WITH RESPECT TO.
HOW? THE SUPREME COURT AND WHEN
I SAT ON THE SUPREME COURT. HOW
IT DEALT WITH NOT NECESSARILY
IDENTICAL ISSUE BUT SIMILAR
ISSUES OF DISCIPLINE WITH
RESPECT TO ATTORNEYS?
AND ALSO UNFORTUNATELY. THE
COURT ALSO HAD JURISDICTION OVER
DISCIPLINING OF OF A JUDGE'S
WHICH HAVE AN ANALOGOUS.
SITUATION.
SO WITH THAT IN MIND LET ME LET
ME JUST. INTRODUCE MYSELF TERMS
MIGHT MY BACKGROUND IS NOT ALL
OF YOU MAY KNOW ME BUT I SERVED.
FOR FIFTEEN YEARS ON BOTH STATE
AND FEDERAL COURTS.
IN CALIFORNIA. AND TEN YEARS ON
THE CALIFORNIA. SUPREME COURT.
AND OF THOSE WITH VARIOUS
CAPACITIES I DID HAVE OCCASION.
THE TWO.
CONSIDER. THE CASES OF SEXUAL
HARASSMENT THE. GENDER AND
ETHNIC. DISCRIMINATION. A NUMBER
OF A CRIMINAL STATUTE AS A TRIAL
JUDGE THAT.
INVOLVED CERTAINLY.
CRIMINAL SANCTIONS BEING
IMPOSED.
AND ON THE SUPREME COURT.
AT THE APPELLATE LEVEL.
I HAD THE YOU KNOW SOME
EXPERIENCE IN DEALING WITH THOSE
ISSUES AS WELL AS WELL.
BUT I HAVE TO SAY HERE AS A AS
A.
AS A CAUTION I AM I AM NOT A
SPECIALIZED EXPERT. IN THE FIELD
I'M MORE OF A GENERALIST. AND I
LOOK FORWARD TO HEARING FROM
OTHERS THIS AFTERNOON WE'RE
GOING TO SPEAK. PROBLEM WITH
MORE DIRECT EXPERIENCE SOME OF
THESE ISSUES. YOU KNOW WITH
RESPECT TO THE SEVERITY OF OF
CONDUCT THAT IS ACTIONABLE.
THE WAY I SEE THIS IT'S REALLY
ON ON ON A LARGE SPECTRUM.
BEGINNING WITH THE WORDS AND
GESTURES.
INAPPROPRIATE CONDUCT THAT. MAY
OR MAY NOT INVOLVE.
ANY CRIMINAL SANCTIONS AND AND
MAYBE EVEN THE MAY NOT EVEN RISE
TO THE LEVEL OF BEING.
ACTIONABLE IN A CIVIL CONTACTS.
AND CERTAINLY OUR PENAL CODE.
AND I CAN ONLY THINK OF A ONE OR
TWO. A CRIMINAL STATUTES THAT
DEAL WITH MAKING CRIMINAL.
OBJECTIONABLE WORDS AND TALK
INCITING TO RIOT SOMETHING LIKE
THAT. OF THE CRIMINAL. CODE.
BASICALLY FOCUS ON.
HARASSING THE TYPE OF ASSAULT
ACTUALLY. OF A TOUCHING OVER
CLOSE UNDER CLOTHES. AND MORE
SUBSTANTIAL SEXUAL. CONDUCT. AND
WITH EACH A DEGREE. OF.
.
HELLO HEIGHTENED OFFENSE OF
COURSE THE PUNISHMENT. OF IS
MORE STRINGENT.
AND THE COURTS ALSO LOOK AT.
THINGS LIKE THE AGE DIFFERENCE
BETWEEN THE TWO PARTIES.
WHETHER THERE IS A VIOLATION OF
TRUST.
THAT COULD BE AN AREA OF
SUPERIOR SUBORDINATE
RELATIONSHIP CURRENTLY
EMPLOYMENT.
CONTEXT.
WHETHER OR NOT THERE'S A QUID
PRO QUO.
MADE. FOR CERTAIN.
CONCEPT. CONDUCT IN ORDER TO
OBTAIN.
SORT OF A COURSE OF A CONSENT.
AND ONE FACTOR.
BUT I THINK IS THE ALSO.
VERY SERIOUS THIS WHOLE QUESTION
OF RETALIATION.
IT'S LIKE MANY TIMES THE. IT'S
NOT SO MUCH THE ACT IN QUESTION
THAT GETS THE PERSON IN TROUBLE
IT'S HOW THE COMPANY WITH
INDIVIDUAL. RESPONSE TO THAT SO
RETALIATION COMPLAINS. CLAIMS
BUT IF YOU GO THROUGH. THE
LITERATURE IN THE LAW ARE ALSO A
SIGNIFICANT FACTOR.
WE'LL ALSO LOOK AT. THE FACTORS
IN IT MITIGATION.
THINGS LIKE A MISTAKEN CONSENT.
OF THE.
JUST THE WORDS NOT BEING THERE
OF THE ACTUAL WHO EXPRESS WHICH
PERSON WORDS OF CONSENT.
AND IN TERMS OF AGGRAVATION THE
COURTS WOULD LOOK TO THE.
OF THE USE OF FORCE OF ANY TYPE
OR A. TRANSPORTING SOMEONE IN
THE KIDNAPPING KIND OF SITUATION
SO THOSE ARE ALL. FACTORS THAT
WOULD BE THAT WOULD ENHANCE OR
MITIGATE A SENTENCE AND I THINK.
WHEN A JUDGE LOOKS AT.
OF.
THIS KIND OF CONDUCT ON A
SPECTRUM WE TAKE ALL THESE
THINGS INTO. CONSIDERATION.
NO SANCTIONS.
OF BOTH IN THE.
JUDICIAL SYSTEM AND ON THE STATE
BAR.
SCHEMES.
OF.
THERE ARE ISSUES OF THE.
WHAT THE APPROPRIATE SANCTION I
WOULD BE AND HOW DO YOU ARRIVE
AT THAT? OF.
THE STAGE.
BOTH BOTH OF THOSE SCHEMES
REALLY ARE MORE.
JUDICIAL LEISTON I THINK WHAT WE
MAY BE TALKING ABOUT HERE.
I'VE READ SOME LITERATURE ON HOW
COLLEGE CAMPUSES HANDLE. OF.
ISSUES LIKE SEXUAL HARASSMENT
WHICH MAY OR MAY NOT BE A
CRIMINAL.
THE SCHEMES IN BOTH THE
PUNISHMENT.
AGAINST LAWYERS AND PROTECT
AGAINST JUDGES ALL INVOLVE KIND
OF.
YOU KNOW INVESTIGATIONS. ANNA
ADJUDICATIVE BODY. A COMMITTEE
OR THE ENTIRE BODY.
MAKING. A DETERMINATION OF WHAT
AN APPROPRIATE SANCTION WOULD
BE.
OUT OF THE CALIFORNIA SUPREME
COURT IN WHICH I SERVED WAS
REALLY THE SUPERVISING ENTITY.
OVER ATTORNEY DISCIPLINE. AS
WELL AS JUDICIAL DISCIPLINE.
AT THE EXTREME THE PUNISHMENT
WOULD BE DISBARMENT.
AT THE OTHER EXTREME THAT MIGHT
BE JUST A PRIVATE.
A REPRIMAND.
UP NEXT WOULD BE A.
A PUBLIC.
WRITTEN CENSURE REPUBLICA
RECOMMEND OF REPRIMAND.
ANOTHER. TYPE OF SANCTION WOULD
BE AN ACT. OF PROBATION.
WITH A STATE SENTENCE OF
SUSPENSION SAY THIRTY SIXTY
DAYS.
WHERE THE LAWYER COULD NOT?
PRACTICE IN.
ONCE THAT TERM WAS FULFILLED IN
THE MATTER WOULD BE CLOSE.
THERE'S ALSO ACTUAL OF
SUSPENSION.
IN A IN A CONTEXT LIKE WHAT WERE
YOU MAY BE CONSIDERING HERE A
SUSPENSION MIGHT BE WITH OR
WITHOUT PAY. OVER DEPRIVATION OF
CERTAIN. RIGHTS PERKS. COMMITTEE
ASSIGNMENTS THE BUDGET CUTS.
OF.
IT'S LIKE THAT THAT THE.
PRESIDENT PRO TEM OF THE SPEAKER
MIGHT.
.
CLOSE. AS I SAID THE ULTIMATE
SANCTION IN BOTH OF THOSE GAMES
WOULD BE.
DISBARMENT OR REMOVAL. FROM
FROM THE BENCH.
ALSO IN TERMS OF THE CONDITIONS
OF THE PROBATION REALLY RUNS THE
GAMUT SHOULD BE APPROPRIATE TO
THE KIND OF CONDUCT THAT.
IS BEING CONSIDERED.
CERTAINLY THE. ETHICAL TRAINING
WOULD BE. OF SIGNIFICANT.
OF TRAINING WHICH IS MANNED
MANDATORY ANYWAY IN THE STATE OF
CALIFORNIA. ON.
SEXUAL HARASSMENT IN THE
BULLRING BULL BULLYING.
ANGER MANAGEMENT. SENSITIVITY
TRAINING ROOM THE WHOLE GAMUT
WHATEVER. AND THIS WOULD APPLY
IN A CRIMINAL CONTEXT CASES AS
WELL WERE AN INDIVIDUAL'S PLACED
ON PROBATION. TYPICAL CASE WOULD
BE IN A DRIVING UNDER THE
INFLUENCE CASE THEY WOULD HAVE
TO COMPLETE SOME KIND OF OFF THE
WHOLE SCHOOL.
MEANING.
I AM VERY HAPPY TO REPORT THAT
WITH RESPECT TO THE JUDICIAL
SYSTEM. THE WHOLE IDEA OF
PREVENTION. IS VERY MUCH AT THE
FOUR.
I KNOW THAT THE NINTH CIRCUIT
AND ALSO OF THE DISTRICT
COURT'S.
HAVE A PRETTY EXTENSIVE.
TRAINING PROGRAMS FOR NEW
EMPLOYEES AND ALSO FOR NEW.
NEW JUDGES. I KNOW THE NINTH
CIRCUIT HAS A DESIGNATED
OMBUDSMAN. TO HANDLE. COMPLAINTS
UNDER CERTAIN.
THE. REPORTING PROTOCOLS. OF.
THOSE.
SYSTEMS.
JUST GETTING BACK BRIEFLY TO THE
SANCTIONS ON SENTENCING SCHEMES.
TYPICALLY IN A CASE. IN A
CRIMINAL CASE A JUDGE WOULD NOT
GET ANY KIND OF IN THE PENDING
INVESTIGATION AS YOU WOULD IN
THE CORPORATE. OR PUBLIC
CONTACTS WOULD GET A PROVISIONAL
OFFICER'S REPORT THAT WOULD
DETAIL THE CIRCUMSTANCES OF THE
OFFENSE THE GRAVITY OF THE
OFFENSE.
OF PRIOR VIOLATIONS WOULD WEIGH
VERY HEAVILY. AND GENERALLY
EVERY SYSTEM I'VE SEEN HAS A
PROGRESSIVE. DISCIPLINARY
SYSTEM.
MAYBE FOR THE CONDUCT THAT IS
NOT SO AGGRAVATED.
FIRST TIME OFFENSE.
THE.
SOME KIND OF CENSURE OF THE
MOVING UNDER SUSPENSION AMOUNT
TO DISBARMENT SO THAT.
THAT WEIGHS VERY HEAVILY. WHEN A
JUDGE LOOKS AT A CASE.
AND IS TRYING TO FASHION AN
APPROPRIATE REMEDY. OTHERS ALSO
THE QUESTION OF A PERFORMANCE ON
PROBATION.
WHEN YOU GIVE SOMEONE A BREAK.
OF THAT I JUST SAW THE SALOONS
THE COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO SOMEONE
I KNOW WHEN THEY DON'T COMPLY
WITH THE TERMS OF PROBATION
THAT'S YET ANOTHER OFFENSE. FOR
WHICH ADDITIONAL PUNISHMENT.
CAN BE IMPOSED. BY THE BIG THE
ISSUE RIGHT NOW. AS I SEE IT
LOOKING AT THE THAT THE.
SEXUAL HARASSMENT ON ON CAMPUSES
AND REALLY I THINK IT APPLIES TO
WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE.
IS THE WHOLE NOTION OF DUE
PROCESS. AND THE HALLMARK OF THE
DUE PROCESS SINCE TIME
IMMEMORIAL IN THIS COUNTRY HAS
BEEN NOTICE. AND AN OPPORTUNITY
TO BE HEARD.
THE. BROAD SORT OF A CATEGORY.
WHAT PROCESSES DO IN A
PARTICULAR?
CASE. CERTAINLY NOTICE WOULD
INCLUDE THE DETAILING THE
SPECIFICS OF THE ALLEGATION.
IT RAISES SOME SENSITIVITIES AS
TO CONFIDENTIALITY AND. THE
WILLINGNESS OF A COMPLAINANT.
TO REALLY THE.
HE'LL COME OUT AND BE PUBLIC
WITH HER WITH THEIR.
COMPLAINT.
ANOTHER ASPECT OF THE DUE
PROCESS IS ACCESS TO WITNESS
STATEMENTS AND DOCUMENTS AFFORD
THAT OPPORTUNITY.
TO THE PERSON WHO IS ACCUSED OF
A. ANY KIND OF HARASSMENT. TO BE
ABLE TO EXAMINE.
STATEMENTS AND ANY DOCUMENTS
AND WHATEVER IS IN. IN THE
RECORD.
ALSO OPPORTUNITY TO BE HEARD
WOULD INCLUDE.
THE RIGHT TO MAKE STATEMENTS TO
AN INDEPENDENT FACT FINDING
INVESTIGATOR AND ALSO TO THE
JUDICATA BODY. WHETHER THAT'S A
SPECIAL COMMITTEE THAT'S MAKING
REPORT TO THE FINAL.
ADJUDICATIVE A BODY OR SOMETHING
ELSE BUT.
I THINK THE LITERATURE SPEAKS TO
THE.
FACT FINDING THE.
INDIVIDUAL OR GROUP BEING
SEPARATE FROM THE JUDICATA FROM
BODY. ODOR TENDS TO BE THERE
WOULD TEND TO BE A CONFLICT OF
INTEREST.
YOU'RE BOTH A FINDER OF FACT.
AND A ANY JUROR IN A SENSE.
WELL THE OTHER AREA THAT I THINK
IS VERY SENSITIVE. IS THE WHOLE
AREA AND THIS IS IN OUR IN OUR
SIXTH AMENDMENT. RIGHT TO
CONFRONT AND CROSS EXAMINE
WITNESSES AT SOME TRYING TO.
IN OUR US. CONSTITUTION.
OF.
THE COURTS HAVE DEALT WITH THAT
IN DIFFERENT WAYS AND VERY
SENSITIVE CASES I CAN SPEAK TO
CHILD MOLESTATION CASES WERE.
THE LAW HAS DEVELOPED TO WHERE
THERE CAN BE VIDEOTAPED
TESTIMONY.
A SCREEN BEING USED TO BLOCK.
BE COMPLAINING FROM SEEING THE
RESPONDENT.
THE TESTIMONY BEING GIVEN IN
SEPARATE ROOMS ARE DIFFERENT
WAYS OF HANDLING. OF THOSE TYPES
OF SITUATIONS.
ALSO TO PRESERVE THE THE NOTION
OF PRIVACY AND CONFIDENTIALITY
CERTAINLY. AN EDUCATED BODY
WOULD HAVE THE OPTION HAVING AN
OPEN. OR CLOSED HEARING
CERTAINLY IN IN IN JUVENILE
CASES ARE CLOSED HEARINGS UP
UNTIL QUITE RECENTLY IF THERE'S
CONSENT OPEN UP. OF THE COURT
ROOM.
OF.
SO FINALLY I WOULD SAY THE B.
FINDINGS THAT ARE MADE.
UP BY THE JUDICATA BODY SHOULD
BE DETAILED. AND SUPPORTED BY
THE EVIDENCE AND SHOULD SUPPORT
THE CONCLUSION.
OF THAT EDUCATED OF THE BODY.
AND SHOULD BE COMMENSURATE WITH.
ON A COMPETITIVE BASIS.
WITH OTHER SIMILAR KINDS OF
CASES ON THE PUNISHMENT.
THAT.
WAS IMPOSED ON THOSE EARLIER
CASES IT HAS TO BE SOME KIND OF.
A BALANCE AND BELIEVE ME.
THAT'S NOT ALWAYS EASY. TO DO OF
MAIL AS A JUDGE YOU TRY TO YOU
TRY TO TREAT EVERYONE THE SAME.
BUT EVERYONE'S DIFFERENT AND THE
FACTS ARE ALWAYS. VERY DIFFERENT
BUT IN YOUR OWN MIND YOU TRY TO
BALANCE.
AND ARRIVE AT A AN APPROPRIATE.
SENTENCE.
BUT PART OF THE FINDINGS ARE YOU
KNOW WHAT IS THE THE BURDEN OF
PROOF.
GENERALLY IN CIVIL CASES OF
COURSE IT'S A BY PREPONDERANCE
OF THE EVIDENCE IS SLIGHTLY MORE
EVIDENCE.
ON ONE SIDE AS OPPOSED TO THE
OTHER.
IN CRIMINAL CASES OF COURSE IT'S
A PROOF BEYOND A REASONABLE
DOUBT.
AND ENTER IN IN BETWEEN. THERE'S
SOMETHING CALLED CLEAR AND
CONVINCING EVIDENCE THAT DOESN'T
APPLY THAT OFTEN BUT IT'S.
SOMETHING THAT.
THE ADJUDICATIVE FOR THE
EDUCATORS FIRMLY CONVINCED.
THAT THE EVIDENCE A.
WEIGHS IN FAVOR OF SOME KIND OF.
FINDING.
AND I THINK IN SOME SITUATIONS
WITH RESPECT TO THE SEVERITY OF
THE OFFENSE LIKE DISBARMENT
REMOVE HOME OFFICE.
US SOMEBODY'S BY USE THAT MORE.
STRINGENT. BURDEN OF PROOF.
SIMILAR TO THAT WOULD BE.
THE QUESTION OF UNANIMITY.
AND THAT IN SOME WAY.
MAY ALL. BERMAIN NULLIFY WITH
THE REALLY THE BURDEN OF PROOF
IS.
IF YOU HAVE A PANEL OF OF THE.
OF THREE LET'S SAY AS THE FINAL
ADJUDICATIVE BODY.
YOU MAY WANT. TO CONSIDER.
EITHER UNANIMITY OR SUPER
MAJORITY WHICH I THINK IS IS THE
GENERAL RULE. OF. THE FOR THE
FOR THE LEGISLATURE SO TWO OUT
OF THREE. IN CIVIL CASES ON
SEXUAL HARASSMENT CASES. IT'S
NINE OUT OF TWELVE OR THREE
QUARTERS.
SO YOU SEE THAT SINCE THINGS
ARE.
SO VERY DIFFICULT TO PROVE.
BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT OR TO
AN ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY AS SOME
PEOPLE LIKE TO SAY.
OF.
SOMEWHERE. AROUND BURDEN OF
PROOF AROUND A PREPONDERANCE OF
THE EVIDENCE WOULD SEEM TO BE
THE GENERAL RULE.
AND THE MAJORITY. OR SUPER
MAJORITY.
OF CONCLUSION. BY THE GOVERNING
BODY. WOULD BE. I THINK
APPROPRIATE PARTICULARLY. IN
CASES WHERE TALKING BOUT
SUSPENSION OR DISBARMENT WITH A
SEVERITY DEFENSES ARE MUCH.
GREATER.
AGAIN BEARING IN MIND WHAT I
SAID EARLIER ABOUT HAVING A.
A COMPARATIVE THE REASONING
ABOUT THE APPROPRIATE STEPS TO
IMPOSE AN AWESOME MINUS SIMILAR
CASES.
AND FINALLY I JUST WANT TO SAY
SOMETHING ABOUT.
ELECTED OFFICIALS SINCE.
AND WHEN ONE SENSE I WAS AN
ELECTED OFFICIAL ON THE BALLOT
ABOUT THREE TIMES AND SAY THE
CALIFORNIA.
AND I THINK.
AS AN INDEPENDENT THE. BRANCH OF
GOVERNMENT I THINK THE COURTS
TEND TO DIFFER.
BUT I'M I'M NOT AN EXPERT ON ON
ELECTION LAW THIS ONE OF A. OF
ELECTED OFFICIALS.
BUT OVER TIME I THINK. THE
COURTS REALLY FEEL THAT.
THE LEGISLATIVE BRANCH SHOULD
REALLY BE ABLE TO DETERMINE ITS
OWN RULES. ANNA SO N. AS LONG AS
THERE'S A MODICUM OF DUE PROCESS
HOWEVER.
THAT IS BUILT INTO THE SYSTEM.
I THINK COURTS ARE NOT GOING TO
INTERCEDE.
I THINK A THE SENSES I SEE IT IS
THAT.
IF THERE IS A.
THE. CALL. FOR SOMEONE TO BE
PARTICULARLY REMOVED FROM
OFFICE.
OF THAT MAY BE SOMETHING FOR THE
COLLECTORS THE ELECTORATE TO
DECIDE.
OF.
AND THE COURTS ARE GOING TO I
THINK IN MOST INSTANCES DIFFER.
TWO OF. THE DECISIONS.
OF A LEGISLATIVE BODY TO
DISCIPLINE ONE OF ITS MEMBERS.
AGAIN I'M NOT AN EXPERT LISTEN
I'M SURE. STAFF COULD FIND.
A CATALOG OF CASES ACROSS THE
COUNTRY ON HOW YOU DEAL. WITH
THIS.
BUT I THINK AS LONG AS THERE'S A
MODICUM OF DUE PROCESS AND
FAIRNESS. BUT ONE CASE I THINK I
SAW. IN THE MEMO THAT WAS
CIRCULATED TO THE COMMITTEE. YOU
KNOW DEALT WITH THREE
LEGISLATORS WHEN CALIFORNIA BACK
IN NINETEEN OH FIVE WHO ACCEPTED
BRIBES.
AND WITHIN A MATTER A COUPLE
MONTHS THEY WERE MOVED IN.
THE THE COURT SAID SOMETHING TO
THE EFFECT AS LONG AS THE.
LEGISLATURE FOLLOWED ITS RULES
THAT'S ENOUGH TO PROCESS. SO DUE
PROCESS SYMBOL TO PROCEDURAL
SENSE.
AS WELL AS IN A SUBSTANTIVE
SENSE WHAT'S FAIR.
REALLY IS SOMETHING THAT. IS NOT
REALLY FIXED. IN THE LOFT IT'S
NOT SOMETHING THAT PEOPLE USE
WE'LL YOU KNOW IT WHEN YOU SEE
IT. BUT IT GOES BACK TO YOU KNOW
WAS THIS A FAIR PROCESS WAS THE
THE INDIVIDUAL HAVE A CHANCE TO
BE HEARD.
WAS THE ADJUDICATIVE BODY
INDEPENDENT. OF.
AND THE WAS THEIR DECISION.
AT THE END OF THE DAY BASED ON.
FACTS THAT HAVE BEEN
ESTABLISHED.
BY SOME LEVEL OF BURDEN OF
PROOF.
I THINK DOING THAT I THINK THAT
THE.
THE COURT WOULD VERY LIKELY FIND
THAT THE PROCESS THAT WAS DUE
WAS INDEED RENDERED.
SO THAT THAT CONCLUDES MY
OVERALL SORT OF GENERAL COMMENTS
AND OLDER VERY GENERAL AND YOU
HAVE OTHER.
OF SPEAKERS WHO I KNOW ARE MUCH
MORE QUALIFIED TO DEAL WITH SOME
OF THE. SENSITIVITIES OF.
THAT YOU ALL ARE DEALING WITH
HERE BUT I'D BE HAPPY TO. ANSWER
ANY QUESTIONS OF ANY OF THE
MEMBERS MIGHT HAVE.
THANK YOU KNOW AND I AM GOING TO
ASK THE PANEL WITH THEIR
QUESTIONS AND I ALSO WANT TO LET
EVERYBODY KNOW THAT. THE.
JUSTICE HAS.
VERY GRACIOUSLY OFFERED TO
STICK AROUND THERE ARE OTHER
PANELS AND THEN TO BE CALLED
BACK UP IF BASED ON WHAT WE'VE
HEARD WE HAVE FURTHER QUESTIONS
FOR HIM. I DO HAVE A QUESTION
FOR YOU BEFORE I MOVE TO
EVERYBODY ELSE AND IT'S
SOMETHING THAT MAYBE YOU'LL WANT
TO ANSWER LATER RATHER THAN NOW
SO I'LL GIVE YOU THAT OPTION.
YOU MENTIONED THAT THE MOST OF
THE TIME WITH DUE PROCESS
INCLUDES. THE ACCUSED BEING ABLE
TO REVIEW SORT OF THE CASE
AGAINST THEM BY LOOKING AT THE
INVESTIGATION NOW WE DO NOT
ALLOW THAT IN THE ASSEMBLY SO
THEY'RE THE. THE ACCUSES
INTERVIEWED AND THEY MIGHT BE
ASKED ABOUT ABOUT.
TESTIMONY OF OTHER WITNESSES BUT
THEY'RE NOT GIVEN THE
OPPORTUNITY TO LOOK AT. THAT
TESTIMONY I BELIEVE OUT OF.
DESIRE TO PROTECT THE IDENTITY
OF WITNESSES AND I'M JUST
WONDERING IF YOU HAVE ANY
COMMENTS ABOUT THAT AND AND IF
YOU THINK THAT THAT'S A FATAL
FLAW OR SOMETHING THAT WE CAN.
SORT OF WORK AROUND BASED ON THE
THE PROTECTIVE DESIRES YEAH I
DON'T THINK IT'S A FATAL FLAW TO
BEGIN WITH BUT I THINK SOME KIND
OF SUMMARY OF THE TESTIMONY.
IT COULD EVEN BE ANONYMOUS I
SUPPOSE.
BUT I DON'T THINK THAT'S A CYNIC
QUINTANA OF DUE PROCESS TO
ACTUALLY.
OF REVIEW THE ACTUAL STATEMENTS
AND DISCLOSE THE IDENTITY LOTUS
SOON THAT MANY TIMES THE
COMPLAINANTS ARE ANONYMOUS. AND
WISH TO REMAIN ANONYMOUS.
AND IT DOESN'T TAKE. UP VERY
MUCH INTUITION TO FIGURE OUT WHO
THAT PERSON MIGHT BE FROM A SET
OF FACTS.
SO IN ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION I
DON'T THINK IT'S IT'S A FABLE
FLAW BUT I THINK AT SOME POINT.
AND THE WAY THAT. YOU KNOW I'VE
SEEN THIS DEALT WITH A GRIN
CRIMINAL CASES INVOLVING
CONFIDENTIAL INFORMANTS.
IS THE THE.
RESPONDENTS ATTORNEY.
WOULD BE GIVEN ACCESS IN UNDER
CONTROLLED CONDITIONS. TO A
STATEMENT FOR SUMMARY.
OF WITHOUT HAVING THE ACTUAL
CLIENT.
SEE THOSE STATEMENTS. SO IT'S
REALLY.
IT'S REALLY AGAIN NOT A BALANCE.
THANK YOU PRESSURE MENTAL.
THANK YOU I APPRECIATE YOU POSED
THE QUESTION WITH REGARD TO
ANONYMOUS COMPLAINANTS AND AND
THE DUE PROCESS ISSUE THANK YOU
VERY MUCH JUSTICE MARINA FOR
JOINING US AND FOR THE TIME AND
THOUGHT YOU PUT INTO. THE.
COMMENT YOU SHARED WITH US. YOU
TALKED ABOUT THE PROGRESS OF
DISCIPLINARY SYSTEM WE'VE HEARD
THAT FROM OTHER EXPERTS HAVE
COME ON BEFORE US IN IN THE
DOCUMENTS THAT WE'VE. REVIEWED
I'M CURIOUS AS YOU TALK ABOUT
SANCTIONS AND WHO DECIDES. THE
EXAMPLE YOU GAVE UP BEFORE THE
COURT SYSTEM HERE IN CALIFORNIA
ALL THE EXAMPLES FROM
DISBARMENT.
ON DOWN BOMB ARE THOSE PRE
ESTABLISHED IS THAT UP TO THE
ADJUDICATIVE BODY TO FIGURE OUT.
WHAT FITS WHAT SCENARIO?
HOW DOES THAT HAPPEN TO KIND OF?
GOOD INTERESTING QUESTION KIND
OF A COMBINATION OF BOTH BECAUSE
SOMETIMES.
WITH RESPECT TO THE FACTORS IN
AGGRAVATION.
OF THAT WOULD PERTAIN TO AN
UNDERLYING OFFENSE THOSE WOULD
BE SET OUT IN STATUTE IN MARKS.
IN RULES OF COURT AND THIS IS
BOTH IN THE FEDERAL SYSTEM IN IN
THE IN THE STATE. OF SYSTEM SO
THEY WOULD BE. SET OUT. I WANTED
THEY SAY SOMETHING ABOUT.
THE SPECTRUM CONCERN THE
SEVERITY OF THE.
OF THE CONDUCT.
AND I THINK THE CIVIL LAW IS
QUITE CLEAR ON THIS I MEAN IF
YOU HAVE.
NO ONE REALLY AGGRAVATED.
INSTANCE WITH NO PRIORS THAT'S
ENOUGH AND I ULTIMATE SANCTION.
OF THE NOTION OF A PROGRESSIVE
DISCIPLINE STARTING OUT WITH THE
LIGHTEST SENTENCE WOULD APPLY
WORDS MERITED WHERE THE NO
PRIOR.
OFFENSES AND THEN.
IN HIM HARASSMENT WORKPLACE
HARASSMENT CASES OR SOMETHING
KNOWN AS STRAIGHT STRAIGHT
COMMENT.
A STRAY COMMENT CLUB MIGHT NOT
EVEN BE ACTIONABLE.
BUT IF IT'S SEVERE ENOUGH AND IT
PROCESS.
THEN YOU HAVE AN ACTIONABLE CASE
SO I MEAN THE SPECTRUM OF A.
YOU KNOW WHAT GOES ON IN IN THE
WORKPLACE MEAN JUST WITH ALL
OVER THE PLACE. BUT I JUST WANT
TO EMPHASIZE THAT WILL ONE.
AGGRAVATED INSTANCE COULD RESULT
IN THIS APARTMENT FOR REMOVAL.
AT STATE PRISON. IN A CRIMINAL
CASE THANK YOU.
SENATOR MOYLAN.
THANK YOU TO JUDGE MARINO YOU'VE
HAD THE PRIVILEGE OF SERVING ON
THE STATE SUPREME COURT TO YOUR.
SORT OF HAVE BEEN AT THE
PINNACLE OF A CAREER AND YOU'VE
HAD A CHANCE TO LOOK AT THE
STATE AND. WE WE'VE DISCUSSED
CULTURE. A LOT HERE IN THE
WORKPLACE BUT WE'VE ALSO GOT A
LOT OF LAWS.
ABOUT.
HOW TO DEAL WITH INDIVIDUALS ON
COLLEGE CAMPUSES AND HAVE SPENT
A LOT OF TIME THERE BUT? WE'VE
GOT SOME HIGH SCHOOLS IN THE
ROOM.
AND THEY'RE SAYING THAT THERE'S
A READY AT A YOU KNOW A PROBLEM
ON THE HIGH SCHOOL CAMPUS SO HOW
DO WE. START ADDRESSING.
CULTURE.
BEFORE WE GO INTO CAREERS HOW DO
WE. HOW DO WE STAY YOU KNOW DO
YOU HAVE ANY WISDOM FROM?
ALL OF YOUR YEARS OF WONDERFUL
WORK FOR THE STATE OF
CALIFORNIA.
YEAH WELL IT IS NICE IS A
MENTIONED AT LEAST AT THE COURT
LEVEL I MEAN I THINK.
SOME KIND OF A SENSITIVITY
TRAINING AND WHAT'S RIGHT AND
WHAT'S WRONG. IT'S NEVER TOO
SOON TO TO INCULCATE THAT.
AND STUDENTS I MEAN YOU'RE
TALKING ABOUT KIDS IN PUBERTY
ALREADY.
AND A LOT OF BULLYING COMING
THEIR STATUTES AGAINST BULLYING.
SO. I KNOW THAT THE SEXUAL
HARASSMENT TRAINING IS MANDATORY
CALIFORNIA FOR ALL EMPLOYERS
I'VE TAKEN IT SEVERAL TIMES.
AND IT MAY BE WISE TO TO HAVE
THAT. YOU KNOW MEMBER THE WHOLE
SEX ED CLASSES AND STUFF.
THAT. I THINK ESPECIALLY AS YOU
SAY IS THE IS THE CLIMATE HAS
CHANGED.
I THINK YOU KNOW THE TRAINING
WITH RESPECT THE BULLYING AND
SEXUAL HARASSMENT THINGS ARE
REALLY OFFENSIVE. OF NEVER TOO
SOON.
TO GET INTO THAT.
EVEN AT THE MIDDLE MIDDLE SCHOOL
LEVEL I WOULD SAY.
THANK YOU THANK YOU MADAM CHAIR.
YOU ARE SOME MEMBER IS.
THANK YOU MADAM CHAIR. AND THANK
YOU JUST AS MODEL FOR ALL OF
YOUR SERVICE TO THE STATE OF
CALIFORNIA AND ON THE OUR
SUPREME COURT. I SINCERELY
APPRECIATE OUT ALL OF THEM
SPECIALLY AS AN ATTORNEY.
IT WHEN YOU TALKED ABOUT THE
SEVERITY OF CONDUCT MY QUESTION
HAS TO DO WITH THE THE. THE
POSITIONS OF THE PERPETRATOR AND
THE VICTIM. ARE ONE THING IS TO
TALK ABOUT THEM.
THE HARASSMENT BETWEEN TWO
INDIVIDUALS BUT WHEN THE
PERPETRATOR IS IN A POSITION OF
POWER OVER THE VICTIM.
HOW IT WORKS?
WHAT WOULD BE THE DIFFERENCE IN
THE WAY THAT THAT SORT OF A CASE
WOULD BE HANDLED?
WELL I THINK GO WITH A PERSON IN
POWER.
THE CONCEPT IS REALLY NOT A
VALID. CONSENT IT'S IT'S
COERCED.
IN MOST INSTANCES AND THE FACT
OF THE MATTER IS THAT WE NEED.
THE PEOPLE NEED IT THE MOST
TRAINING OTHER PEOPLE IN POWER
WHETHER LEGISLATOR A CHARGER.
CORPORATE EXECUTIVE SO. YOU KNOW
TRUE TRUE CONSENT UNDER THOSE
CIRCUMSTANCES IS VERY SUSPECT IN
MY VIEW.
AND ACTUALLY THAT WOULD BE A
FACTOR IN AGGRAVATION.
BUT SOMEONE VIOLATED A POSITION
OF TRUST OVER THAT.
THE VICTIM.
THE QUESTIONS WERE ASKED BY THE
CHAIR AND THE COACH HERE
SPECIFICALLY HAVING TO DO WITH
THE ALLEGATIONS OR THE EVIDENCE.
IF.
IF THERE IS ONE THING IS DURING
THE INVESTIGATIONS TO HOW MUCH
INFORMATION IS GIVEN. TO TO THE
PERPETRATOR.
.
IF NOW THERE IS A HEARING A DUE
PROCESS HEARING. TO EXPEL THEM
TO SPEND THEM. AT THAT POINT.
SHOULD EVIDENCE BE PROVIDED.
FORT TO ALLOW FOR TRUE DUE
PROCESS WHICH INCLUDES CROSS
EXAMINATION.
AND EXAMINATION OF THE EVIDENCE
YOU KNOW THAT'S A GOOD POINT AND
I THINK THERE HAS TO BE SOME
RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN.
V. CONTEMPLATED THE SEVERITY THE
WELL THE THE SEVERITY OF THE
OFFENSE THE CONTEMPLATED
I THINK MORE DUE PROCESS IS DUE.
WHETHER THAT EXTENDS TO
PROVIDING THE FULL STATEMENTS OF
THE WITNESSES.
UP IS ANOTHER QUESTION IT VERY
WELL MAY.
BUT I THINK WHEN YOU'RE ON THE
ON THE LOWER END OF THE SCALE. I
THINK AS LONG AS YOU HAVE A
MODICUM OF DUE PROCESS.
OF. IT'S BEEN PROBABLY NEEDS IT
CONSTITUTIONAL RIGOR. BUT THE
MORE HE GET INTO THE.
THE HEAVIER SANCTIONS.
BUT I THINK.
OF.
FIRST WHILE THEY'RE GONNA BE
LAWYERS UP TO THE LAWYERS ARE
GOING TO BE WANTING THAT
INFORMATION.
OF SO THAT THE I THINK I THINK
MORE DUE PROCESS WOULD BE DO IT
ON A.
WHAT THE PUNISHMENT IS GONNA BE
MORE SEVERE?
IN MY MY. LAST QUESTION.
.
HAD UNDER DUE PROCESS ALSO IS.
WHICH YOU TALKED ABOUT THE
SPECTRUM OF DISCIPLINE FOR LACK
OF A BETTER WORD. BUT IN ONE
INSTANCE PREPONDERANCE OF THE
EVIDENCE COULD BE SUFFICIENT.
BUT. A HIGHER BURDEN WHEN THE
DISCIPLINE IS GOING TO BE MORE
SEVERE.
COMING UP TO.
YOU TALKED ABOUT CLEAR
CONVINCING AND.
AND ALSO THE THE UNANIMITY OR
SUPER MAJORITY.
SO DO DO YOU FEEL THAT DEPENDING
ON WHAT THE DSCIPLINE IS GOING
TO BE THEN THE PREPONDERANCE OR
THE THE THE THE.
ROOF IS GOING TO BE.
IS GOING TO VERY DEPART
DEPENDING ON WHAT THE THE THE.
THE FINAL DISCIPLINE IS GOING TO
BE. YOU KNOW I I THINK YOU CAN
HAVE IT ANY KIND OF SYSTEM. I
THINK PREPONDERANCE IS PROBABLY
GOOD ACROSS THE BOARD.
BUT FOR THE MORE AGGRAVATED THE
SANCTION.
I THINK YOU WANT SOMETHING LIKE
A SUPER MAJORITY.
OF YOU KNOW CRIMINAL CASES IT'S
A UNANIMOUS JURY.
A VERDICT.
IN CIVIL CASES IT'S IT'S NINE
OUT OF TWELVE.
OF WHICH IS LIKE IT IS I GUESS
IT'S IT'S MORE THAN A SUPER
MAJORITY AT SEVENTY FIVE PERCENT
IN ORDER TO RENDER.
A VERDICT SO IN MY VIEW THIS IS
JUST MY VIEW.
THAT THE THE BURDEN OF PROOF.
AND THE UNANIMITY QUESTION CAN
BE PLAYED AROUND WITH.
AND AND YOU MAY WANT.
A HIGHER UNANIMITY VOTE. FOR THE
MORE SERIOUS FOR THIS VERY
SPECIAL.
TYPES OF OF CASES.
THE LITTLE BALL DISBARMENT OR
OR.
EXPULSION.
I THINK THAT WOULD SATISFY THE
PREPONDERANCE OF THE EVIDENCE
THAT YOU KNOW. I'M THINKING
THAT.
YOU'RE ABLE TO PERSUADE.
YOU KNOW. OBTAIN AS A SUPER
MAJORITY.
IS THAT BODY REALLY GONNA LOOK
AT.
THE ACTUAL THING IN A WAY.
PREPONDERANCE OF THE EVIDENCE
VERSUS CLEAR CONVINCING THOSE
ARE ALL KIND OF
FIVE OF.
BUT MORE FOR THIS CONCEPT OF A
PREPONDERANCE IS FIFTY PERCENT
PLUS ONE.
BUT CLEARLY CONVINCING INSIST
WHAT FIRM CONVICTION EVEN YOU
KNOW PROOF BEYOND A REASONABLE
DOUBT LOT OF LAWYERS KILLERS AND
THAT'S NINETY PERCENT. BUT THE
LAW DOESN'T DEFINE IT THAT WAY
IT'S LIKE. YOU'RE. YOU DON'T
HAVE A DAY A REASONABLE DOUBT
ABOUT THE GUILT OF THAT PERSON.
I THINK A SUPER MAJORITY IS IS
PROBABLY ENOUGH.
OF.
TO FIND THE ULTIMATE SANCTION.
AND I DID SAY THAT WAS MY LAST
QUESTION.
HOW OFTEN TO GET A QUESTION HOW
MANY TIMES YOU GET THE QUESTION
THE JUDGE I WONDER THAT IS THAT
IS AND THE BUT ALSO TO THE
SUPREME GO TO CALIFORNIA SUPREME
COURT SIDE? THAT'S RIGHT I WOULD
DO WANT TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF.
MAY MADAM CHAIR.
YOU TALKED ABOUT THE RIGHTS OF
THE CONSTITUENCY YEAH THEY HAVE
ELECTED A REPRESENTATIVE TO
REPRESENT THEM. AS FLAWED AS
THAT REPRESENTATIVE MAY BE. AND.
EIGHT THE WE'RE TALKING PERHAPS
ABOUT TWO DIFFERENT STANDARDS WE
AS A BODY SAYING WE DON'T WANT
TO INCLUDE YOU IN THE DECISION
MAKING. BUT THEN YOU HAVE A
CONSTITUENCY THAT NO LONGER HAS
REPRESENTATION.
ON WITH THE BODY. AND HOW DO YOU
BALANCE THOSE ARE HOW DO YOU
RECOMMEND THAT WE BALANCE THOSE
THOUGH I THINK I THINK THE
PEOPLE ARE VERY FORGIVING RIGHT.
LEAVE THE ELECTORS ARE VERY.
VERY FORGIVING. OF I DON'T KNOW
WHAT.
WE KNOW WHAT THE ANSWER IS.
TO THAT.
OF.
IT'S IT IS A CONCERN. YOU KNOW
I'VE BEEN JUST YOU KNOW SOME OF
THE COMES TO MIND RIGHT NOW.
AS I SIT HERE IS.
WHEN I WAS ON THE TRIAL BENCH IF
IF A LAWYER MESSED UP.
I WOULD TAKE IT OUT OF THE
LAWYER AND NOT ON THE CLIENT.
BECAUSE THE CLIENT IS INNOCENT.
AND THE FACT THAT THE LAWYER
MESSES UP THE SANCTION THE
LAWYER BUT NOT THE CLIENT LISTS
THAN SOME OTHER CLIENT IS DONE.
HAS BEEN YOU KNOW ALSO IN
CAHOOTS WITH THE LORD OF. THE
DELAY WHATEVER.
SO THAT'S ALWAYS MY MY VIEW YOU
KNOW. PUNISH THE ONE WHO DID THE
WRONGDOING. BUT DON'T PUNISH THE
CLIENT AND MAYBE IN THE SENSE.
THE ELECTORATE ARE THE CLIENTS
OF THE. OF THE LEGISLATOR I MEAN
I JUST THOUGHT ABOUT THAT YES
RIGHT NOW WHAT I WOULD IT WOULD
BE A BIG CONCERN TO ME YOU WANT
SOMEHOW AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT
THE MECHANISM IS.
FOR THE.
PRESIDENT PRO TEM OR THE OR THE
SPEAKER.
TO. ENSURE THAT THE PEOPLE
CONTINUE TO BE REPRESENT AND
HAVE A VOICE.
OF CERTAIN THAT'S A TOUGH
QUESTION.
AND THEN FINALLY WE ALSO HAVE TO
BALANCE IT WITH.
MAKING THE VICTIM HOLE YES
BECAUSE THE VICTIM IS THE ONE
WHO HAS BEEN INJURED THROUGH
VERY DIRECTLY YES THE
ELECTORATE.
VERY DIRECTLY THE VICTIM HAS
BEEN INJURED AND FINDING A WAY
FOR THAT VICTIM TO ALSO HAVE
JUSTICE RIGHT. AND I THINK THE
YOU'RE GOING TO HEAR FROM
SOMEONE IS GOING TO TALK ABOUT
RESTORATIVE JUSTICE LATER ON AND
THAT'S CERTAINLY ONE MODEL.
THAT SHOULD BE CONSIDERED WHERE
YOU DO CONSIDER THE HARM THAT
WAS DONE. ASIDE PUTTING ASIDE
WHATEVER PUNITIVE ACTIONS ARE
GONNA TAKE. THE HARM THAT WAS
DONE HELPING TO FIX THE
SITUATION AND HOW COULD YOU MOVE
ON.
PROBABLY THE BULK OF CASES NOT
TO. DIMINISH THE SERVICES OF
THESE CASES FILED IN THE BOX BOX
OF CASES.
BUT TALK ABOUT THE AGGRAVATED
ASSAULTS.
WHERE THE PARTIES ARE WILLING TO
ENTER THAT FRAMEWORK?
THAT MIGHT BE THE BOAST THE BEST
AND MOST JUST WAY OF RESOLVING
THESE CASES.
THANK YOU SO MUCH.
THANK YOU MADAM CHAIR IF I
WANTED TO FOLLOW UP ON KIND OF.
MYSTERY AS.
LINE OF THINKING.
.
WHAT HAPPENS WHEN AN OFFICE IS
VACANT IS?
STAFF CONTINUES AND SO A
CONSTITUENT CAN CONTINUE TO CALL
A DISTRICT OFFICE AND AND HAVE
YOUR CONSTITUENT SERVICES THE
LCMS IS OUR CONSTITUENTS ARE THE
SYSTEM OFFICES ARE STILL OPEN
HERE.
BUT THOSE CONSTITUENTS DON'T
HAVE A VOTE. ON A BILL ON THE
FLOOR ON THE BUDGET AND SO IT
REALLY IS. A CONUNDRUM ON IN
TERMS OF HOW AND WE'RE IN A
SITUATION NOW WHERE THERE ARE
CONSTITUENTS WHO HAVE BUILT
THEIR SIMPLY MEMBER AND THEIR
SENATOR.
.
ON LEAVES ARE HAVING TAKING SO
THERE IS. NOW NO REPRESENTATION
ON TERMS OF ACTUAL VOTES THE
LAST PIECE I WAS GOING TO ADD
THIS IN TERMS OF FIGURE OUT THIS
BALANCE AND HOW WE DON'T PUNISH
THE CONTENT CONSTITUENCY. IS
RECOGNIZING THAT THIS IS SUCH AN
INSULAR WORKPLACE. THAT IF YOU
YOU KNOW THERE IS ONE STATE
CAPITAL.
AND AND HOW WE CREATE THAT
SENSE OF BALANCE AND PROTECTION
FOR THE EMPLOYEES. IF IT INDEED
IS AN EMPLOYEE WHO WAS THE
VICTIM THIS WHOLE WORLD IN WHICH
WE WORK IS VERY INSULAR FOR BOTH
THE EMPLOYEES MEMBERS OF THE
THIRD HOUSE. WHO'VE BEEN ENGAGED
IN THIS CONVERSATION AS WELL AND
SO THAT'S THE THIRD CONSTITUENCY
I THINK THAT WE HAVE A
RESPONSIBILITY TO SEE HEAR AND
PROTECT AND MAKE SURE THAT THEY.
ARE REPRESENTED.
ALSO THROUGH DUE PROCESS AS WE
BUILD THIS OLD SYSTEM FIVE ONE
TO ADD THAT PEACE BUT IT'S. IT'S
SO VERY GRAY.
YOU SENATOR LABOR.
THANK YOU MADAM CHAIR JUST
MARINO THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR
JOINING US TODAY AND SHARING
YOUR INSIGHTS. I AM NOT AN
ATTORNEY BUT WHEN I WAS IN THE
LABOR MOVEMENT I WORKED AT A
LOCAL UNION EITHER AS A
REPRESENTATIVE OR AS THE
PRESIDENT FOR TWENTY YEARS SO
I'VE HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO WORK
ON THOUSANDS OF GRIEVANCES OVER
THE YEARS.
WE ALWAYS.
ADVOCATED FOR PROGRESSIVE
DISCIPLINE IT WAS IN ALL OF OUR
CON.
CONTRACTS HOWEVER THERE WERE.
THINGS THAT SOMEONE MIGHT DO AN
EMPLOYEE MIGHT DO.
AND THAT GOES TO YOUR COMMENT
ABOUT THE SEVERITY OF THE
CONTACT. CONDUCT THAT WOULD
CAUSE IMMEDIATE FIRING MY MY
QUESTION IS IS IT WHEN WE'RE
DEVELOPING OUR POLICIES AND OUR
PRACTICES. SHOULD WE INCLUDE
SOMETHING ABOUT. WHAT WE USED TO
HAVE IN OUR CONTRACTS WAS? THESE
PARTICULAR THINGS BEHAVIORS
COULD CAUSE IMMEDIATE
TERMINATION AND WE ALWAYS YOU
KNOW IT INCLUDING BUT NOT
LIMITED TO DO YOU THINK IT'S
IMPORTANT FOR US TO OUTLINE.
ANYTHING THAT COULD CAUSE
TERMINATION OR EXPULSION.
YOU KNOW I I I DON'T THINK SO
OKAY I'VE ALWAYS BEEN AGAINST
THE THIS IS ME.
AGAINST MANDATORY MINIMUM
SENTENCES.
OF PARTICULAR THE SPECTER DRUG
CASES IN OTHER KINDS OF THINGS
THAT. IT REALLY TIES THE HANDS
OF THE JUDGE SO. I DON'T THINK A
RULE THAT WOULD TIE THE HAND
THAT SALUTE LEAGUE.
OF THE JUDICATA BODY WOULD BE A
GOOD ONE YOU GOT A.
I MEAN WE'RE ALL OF. THIS IS
THIS IS A SYSTEM OF.
PEOPLE. YOU KNOW DEALING WITH
EACH OTHER AND. THINGS GOING
AWRY.
THEN I THINK THAT THE.
THE WAY THAT PEOPLE WOULD HAVE
NOTICED THAT SOMETHING IS REALLY
BAD IS BASED ON PRECEDENT WHAT
HAPPENED AND.
IN PRIOR CASES AND SO FORTH.
BUT A MANDATORY OF JUST LETTING
PEOPLE WOULD KNOW THAT IF THEY
DID SOMETHING LIKE THAT THAT
WOULD BE.
REMOVED BUT REQUIRING IT.
MANDATORILY.
I DON'T THINK SO FAIR ENOUGH
HOWEVER YOU WOULD BE SURPRISED
AT WHAT PEOPLE THINK THEY CAN DO
IN IT NOT HANG AND GET NOT ANY
DISCIPLINE. IT'S A LITTLE
SHOCKING SOMETIMES AND I JUST
WANT TO MAKE SURE I I HEARD WHAT
YOU SAID EARLIER. THAT WHEN WE
ARE. MAKING SURE THAT SOMEONE
ELSE HAD DUE PROCESS WE WANT TO
LOOK AT A PREPONDERANCE OF
EVIDENCE.
THREE QUARTERS OF THE BODY
AGREEING ON DISCIPLINE WHAT'S
THE PROCESS FAIR AND WAS A
DECISION BASED ON FACTS. THOSE
ARE THE THINGS SHE THE
PARAMETERS YOU THINK WE SHOULD
LOOK AT. EXCEPT FOR THE THREE
QUARTERS I THINK OKAY. YOU KNOW
THE SUPER MAJORITY DEPENDS ON
THE BODY HE MIGHT WANT. TO A
MAJORITY THINK IS WHAT SIXTY SIX
PERCENT TWO OUT OF THREE. OR
THREE OUT OF FIVE WHATEVER.
HOWEVER YOU DEFINE WHAT SUPER
MAJORITY IS A. THREE QUARTERS
COMES FROM OUR CIVIL JUSTICE
SYSTEM IN CIVIL CASES. THE SUPER
MAJORITY RATHER THAN THREE
QUARTERS RIGHT CATCH. THANK YOU
VERY MUCH.
THANK YOU I'M IT'S WONDERFUL TO
HAVE THE LEGAL INPUT FROM SUCH A
HIGH LEVEL AND I REALLY
APPRECIATE IT I HAVE A QUESTION
FOR YOU THAT'S A VERY UNFAIR
QUESTION BECAUSE IT'S ONE OF THE
BIGGEST. ISSUES THAT I'VE BEEN
THINKING ABOUT WITH REGARD TO
THIS. WHICH HAS TO DO WITH ARM.
OUR NATURE AS A BODY BEING IN
THE LEGISLATURE EIGHTY MEMBERS
AND IN SORRY IN THE ASSEMBLY
EIGHTY MEMBERS AND FORTY IN THE
SENATE.
WHEN YOU TALKED ABOUT YOUR ROLE
AS A SUPREME COURT JUSTICE
OCCASIONALLY HAVING TO. DEAL
WITH DISCIPLINING OF LAWYERS OR
JUDGES UNDERNEATH YOU IT'S VERY
DIFFERENT THAN ONE IF YOU WERE
DEALING WITH.
DISCIPLINE WITH ONE OF YOUR OWN
SITTING COLLEAGUES ON THE
SUPREME COURT AND YET THAT'S
WHAT A LOT OF OUR PROCESS WHEN
IT COMES TO CERTAINLY THE
HIGHEST LEVEL OF DEALING WITH
MEMBERS. ARE COMES DOWN TO AND I
UNDERSTAND THAT WEIRD WERE
DIFFERENT BODY THAN A PRIVATE
ORGANIZATION BUT ADVICE IF WE
SUGGESTED THAT A PRIVATE COMPANY
DEALT WITH A SEXUAL HARASSMENT
CLAIM BY PUTTING ALL THE
EMPLOYEES IN ONE ROOM. AND
HAVING THEM VOTE ON WHAT HAPPENS
TO ONE OF THEIR COLLEAGUES WE
WOULD SAY THAT THAT WAS
LUDICROUS BUT THAT'S THE
SUGGESTION THAT WE SHOULD BE
DOING. IN THE LEGISLATURE.
AND.
BUT AT THE SAME TIME BECAUSE OF
THE POLITICAL ENVIRONMENT IN
WHICH WE WORK THERE'S ALWAYS A
PERCEPTION OF BIAS WHEN IT COMES
TO US. BOATING ON WHAT HAPPENS
TO ONE OF OUR MEMBERS.
AND WE'RE VERY TIED TOGETHER IN
TERMS OF NEEDING EACH OTHER FOR
VOTES AND THAT SORT OF THING.
SO ONE OF THE THE IDEAS THAT
WE'VE BEEN DISCUSSING ON OUR
MODELS THAT WOULD ALLOW FOR. AN
OUTSIDE GROUP OF SOME SORT TO AT
LEAST MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS. SO
THAT.
SOME OF THAT PERCEPTION OF BIAS
MAYBE CAN BE DIFFUSED OR.
.
NOT THAT WE WOULD SHIRK OUR
RESPONSIBILITY TO. IMPOSE OUR
OWN DISCIPLINE BUT THAT HAVING
SOME KIND OF AN OUTSIDE.
BODY OR PERSON OR WHATEVER IT
IS.
MIGHT BE HELPFUL AND I'M JUST
WONDERING IF YOU HAVE ANY
THOUGHTS. AS TO THAT.
AND I GO BACK AND FORTH YOU
KNOW SOMETIMES I THINK WE NEED
TO SHOW THAT WE CAN KIND OF
POLICE OURSELVES. AND THAT'S MY
WAS I THINK THAT THAT'S ALWAYS
GOING TO BE SEEN AS THOUGH THERE
WAS ANY ACCUSATIONS OF OF SOME
KIND OF BUYERS ARE IN COURT.
IMPROPRIETY I JUST WONDER IF YOU
HAVE ANY THOUGHTS IF YOU WANT
YOU CAN THINK ABOUT IT AND COME
BACK AND TALK ABOUT IT OR
WHATEVER YEAH. BEFORE I FORGET
YES PLEASE.
THAT'S THE INTERESTING CONCEPT
BECAUSE YOU'RE I THINK YOU'RE
RIGHT THAT WHEN YOU ARE JUDGING
YOUR PEERS.
I MEAN THERE'S THERE COULD BE A
CERTAIN ABUSES OF POLITICAL.
FAVORS AND WANTING TO GET RID OF
SOMEBODY FOR OTHER REASONS
UNRELATED TO THE ACTUAL.
CONDUCT IF I I DON'T KNOW IF THE
AGAIN.
IF YOU ACTUALLY NEED AN OUTSIDE
BODY OR CERTAINLY THE.
IN THE. FOUR JUDGES THERE IS AN
OUTSIDE BODY. BUT SERVE
COMMISSION ON JUDICIAL
PERFORMANCE WHICH COMPRISE OF
CITIZENS.
OF I THINK APPOINTED BY THE BY
THE GOVERNOR AND THE CHIEF
JUSTICE.
AND THEY MAKE A RECOMMENDATION
THAT IS PROBABLY ALWAYS FOLLOWED
BY THE SUPREME COURT.
SAME THING WITH JUDGE WITH THE
LAWYERS.
THERE ARE THE STATE BAR.
HAS A. SEPARATE. KIND OF
JUDICIAL SYSTEM OF OUR HEARINGS
JUDGES AND REVIEW JUDGES.
SO BUT IT'S VERY IT'S VERY
JUDICIAL LIES IN OTHERS HEARINGS
AND. AN APPEAL.
BUT THEN THEY MAKE THE
RECOMMENDATION TO THE SUPREME
COURT.
AND THEN WE DECIDE. WHETHER TO
FOLLOW OR NOT FOLLOW THE
RECOMMENDATION.
OF SO I MEAN DEPENDING ON.
OF.
YOU KNOW HOW MANY.
HOW PREVALENT THE THE ISSUE IS
YOU WANT TO ESTABLISH A SEPARATE
OUTSIDE BODY OR? OR JUST HAVE AN
INDEPENDENT FACT FINDER LIKE A
LAW FIRM ANA AT HEART BASIS DO
SOMETHING AND PRESENTED TO THE
COMMITTEE.
COMMITTEE CAN REALLY
INVESTIGATED I'M OUT MAYBE
THAT'S THE WAY IT'S DONE NOW.
BUT TO THE SET UP.
PLAY IT IN DEPENDENT BODY I NOT
SURE IF I'D GO THAT FAR.
THANK YOU OTHER QUESTIONS FOR
NOW.
THANK YOU VERY MCH LOOK. FOR
THE MOMENT BUT I REALLY I I VERY
MUCH APPRECIATE YOUR TAKING THE
CUT TIME AND SIT DOWN AND. AND
GIVE US THESE THOUGHTS THAT IS
VERY VERY HELPFUL AND IF YOU
DON'T MIND I'M STAYING FOR A
LITTLE WHILE WE MIGHT VERY WELL
HAVE MORE QUESTIONS FOR YOU.
THANK YOU VERY VERY MUCH.
THAT WE'RE GOING TO MOVE TO OUR
NEXT PANEL WHICH IS ABOUT
INVESTIGATING SEXUAL HARASSMENT
ALLEGATIONS. AMY OPPENHEIMER
WHO'S THE AUTHOR OF
INVESTIGATING WORKPLACE
HARASSMENT AND KEVIN KISSED THE
DIRECTOR OF THE DEPARTMENT OF
FAIR EMPLOYMENT AND HOUSING.
IF YOU CAN BOTH COME UP IF YOU
WANT TO ADD ANY INTRODUCTIONS
BEYOND THAT YOU ARE MORE THAN
WELCOME MORE TO TALK ABOUT YOUR
ORGANIZATIONS WITH THE PEOPLE
WATCHING AT HOME WHO MAY NOT. BE
AS INVESTED UNDERSTAND. WHO
YOU'RE REPRESENTING?
AND I VERY MUCH ALSO APPRECIATE
YOUR TIME AND TAKING.
YOUR DAY TO COME IN AND TALK TO
US ABOUT THESE OF THIS VERY
IMPORTANT PART OF OUR RESPONSE
TO SEXUAL HARASSMENT
ALLEGATIONS.
ME AND I THINK I AM.
WE WE DO HAVE A POWER POINT IN
ITS HARD TO PART OF IT FOCUSES
ON.
GUIDELINES ESTABLISHED BY THE
PART OF HER EMPLOYMENT HOUSING
THAT KEVIN KITCHEN IS GOING TO
BE. TAKING THE LEAD ON AND THEN
WE'RE GONNA OF SEGUE TO. OTHER
EXPERIENCE I HAVE AN AND NOT
SPEAKING FOR ANYONE
ORGANIZATIONS SOME MAYBE WE'LL
DO THE INTRODUCTIONS THAT WAY IF
IT'S OKAY WITH YOU.
THANK YOU MADAM CHAIR MEMBERS OF
THE SUBCOMMITTEE.
BUT I'M HAVING KIDS STRUCTURE OF
THE DEPARTMENT OF FAIR
EMPLOYMENT AND HOUSING WE ARE
THE STATE AGENCY THAT ACCEPTS
AND INVESTIGATES AND PROSECUTES.
CASES OF SEXUAL HARASSMENT AND
OTHER FORMS OF. DISCRIMINATION
BOTH IN THE WORKPLACE IN HOUSING
AND IN OTHER CONTEXTS.
THAT'S WHAT WE DO.
I'M HERE REALLY TO DISCUSS A
WORKPLACE HARASSMENT GUIDE THAT
WE PUT TOGETHER AND THIS CAME
ABOUT BECAUSE CALIFORNIA
UNIQUELY HAS A LEGAL
REQUIREMENT.
THAT EMPLOYERS CONDUCT
INVESTIGATIONS OF ALLEGATIONS OF
DISCRIMINATION AND HARASSMENT
AND THIS IS DIFFERENT THAN IN
FEDERAL LAW. SO SINCE WE HAVE
THIS.
LEGAL REQUIREMENT TO PREVENT
AND. AND REMEDY DISCRIMINATION
THAT TAKES THE FORM OF
AN-INVESTIGATION AND PLACES AN
AFFIRMATIVE REQUIREMENT ON
EMPLOYERS TO. INVESTIGATE WE
THOUGHT IT WOULD ONLY BE FAIR TO
TELL PEOPLE WHAT WE EXPECT IN AN
INVESTIGATION. I'M ALSO WERE IN
A POSITION OF JUDGING PEOPLE'S
INVESTIGATIONS AND IT'S FAIR TO
LET THEM KNOW WHAT THOSE.
EXPECTATIONS ARE. ONE OF THE
THINGS THAT WE REALIZED AS.
MOST PEOPLE HAVE NO IDEA HOW TO
CONDUCT AN INVESTIGATION THIS IS
NOT THE SITUATION THAT THE
LEGISLATURE FINDS ITSELF AND YOU
GUYS HAVE HIRED LAW FIRMS TO DO
THIS FOR YOU. I'M BUT FOR MANY
EMPLOYERS EVEN SURPRISINGLY
LARGE EMPLOYERS FOLKS JUST DON'T
KNOW HOW TO DO IT. I'M SO WE PUT
TOGETHER A PANEL OF EXPERTS
INCLUDING AMY OPPENHEIMER AND WE
CAME UP WITH THIS WORKPLACE
INVESTIGATION GUIDE IT'S PART OF
THE MATERIALS THAT ARE ON THE
WEBSITE FOR THIS.
HEARING.
I'M.
EVAN. AND THE FIRST THING THAT I
JUST WANNA HIGHLIGHT IS THAT
EVEN IF SOMEONE CHOOSES TO FILE
A COMPLAINT WITH THE DIFF DFU
AGE OR WITH THE EOC. THAT DOES
NOT RELIEVE ANY EMPLOYER OF
CONDUCTING THEIR OWN
INVESTIGATION TO TRY TO GET TO
THE BOTTOM OF THE ALLEGATIONS
AND MAKE A DETERMINATION ABOUT.
WHAT HAPPENED?
SO WE HAVE OUR SLIDE SLIGHTLY
OUT OF ORDER BIZARRE NAMES THIS
IS OUR.
THIS IS OUR COMPLAINT FLOW CHART
THAT SHOWS WHAT HAPPENS AT THE
DF DH AND I JUST INCLUDED THIS
AS A REFERENCE FOR THE PUBLIC.
I'M IT'S ALSO UP ON OUR WEBSITE
AND IT SHOWS YOU ALTHOUGH THE
WAYS THAT THINGS CAN HAPPEN AND
ONE THING THAT I WANT TO
HIGHLIGHT IS THAT WHEN SOMEONE
DOES FILE WITH US OR WITH THE
EOC.
THAT DOESN'T NECESSARILY RESULT
IN AN INVESTIGATION PEOPLE HAVE
THE RIGHT TO REQUEST THE SO
CALLED RIGHT TO SUE.
WHICH INVOLVES ABSOLUTELY NO AND
NOT LYSIS OR DETERMINATION ON
OUR PART THAT IS AN AUTOMATIC
FUNCTION. THEY SAY I DON'T WANT
YOU GUYS TO INVESTIGATE I WANT
MY RIGHT TO GO TO COURT AND I'M
GONNA GET IT. I MEAN THEY CAN
GET THAT AUTOMATICALLY. VIA THE
WEBSITE.
OKAY.
THESE ARE THE KEY POINTS THAT
I'M GONNA HEAD ON VERY BRIEFLY.
ONE AFTER THE OTHER SO LET'S
MOVE ON TO.
DUE PROCESS TIME WE'VE ALREADY
HEARD SOME OF THAT TODAY I JUST
WANNA HIGHLIGHT ONE THING. WHICH
IS THAT BY AND LARGE UNLESS
THERE IS A COLLECTIVE BARGAINING
AGREEMENT IN PLACE EMPLOYEES IN
CALIFORNIA AND ELSEWHERE ARE NOT
ENTITLED TO DUE PROCESS AND IN
FACT DURING THE TIME THAT WE
HAVE SAT HERE. THERE ARE
EMPLOYEES UP AND DOWN THE STATE
OF CALIFORNIA WHO HAVE BEEN
DISCIPLINED AND FIRED WITH NO
EXPLANATION AT ALL. ABOUT WHY
THAT IS SO AND I JUST WANT TO.
RAISE THE CAUTION THAT WE NOT
CREATE AN EXPECTATION THAT
PEOPLE WHO ARE ACCUSED OF SEXUAL
HARASSMENT ARE SOMEHOW ENTITLED.
TO MORE PROTECTIONS THAN ANY
OTHER EMPLOYEE THAT IS NOT THE
CASE WITH THAT SIDE. I DO THINK
THAT DUE PROCESS IS IMPORTANT
BOTH FOR FAIRNESS AND FOR THE
PERCEPTION OF FAIRNESS I'M IN
EXACTLY THE WAYS THAT JUSTICE
MARINO HAS. DESCRIBED BUT I'M I
JUST WANTED TO CAUTION THE
SUBCOMMITTEE THAT.
WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT
EMPLOYMENT DISCRIMINATION.
.
DUE PROCESS IS WHAT THE EMPLOYER
CREATES THERE'S NO INDEPENDENT
LEGAL CONTENTS TO THAT TO THAT
PHRASE. I'M IN OUR.
DO YOU HAVE THE H. GUIDELINES
WHICH ARE THE MOST RECENT.
GUIDANCE DOCUMENT OF THE SORT
THAT WE KNOW OF.
.
WE SAY THAT DUE PROCESS DOES
NOT.
INVOLVE TELLING A PERSON ACCUSED
OF MISCONDUCT OR HARASSMENT.
IN ADVANCE WHAT THE ALLEGATIONS
ARE AN IMPACT OUR RECOMMENDATION
IS THAT THAT NOT HAPPEN THAT
YOU.
PROVIDED DETAILED AND COMPLETE.
LIST OF THE ALLEGATIONS WHEN YOU
INTERVIEW WITH THE PERSON WHO'S
BEEN ACCUSED BUT THAT YOU NOT
PROVIDE THAT IN ADVANCE ABOUT
DIFFERS IN SOME WAYS.
FROM MY UNDERSTANDING OF
CERTAIN OTHER AREAS OF LAW
INCLUDING TITLE NINE WHICH I
WHERE I THINK IT'S. ON CAMPUSES
IT'S MORE COMMON TO PRESENT A
KIND OF A LIST OF THE
ACCUSATIONS.
.
RIGHT.
THE OTHER THING THAT I WANT TO
HIGHLIGHT IS IT ONE OF THE
THINGS THAT WE FREQUENTLY GET AS
PEOPLE WHO WANT US TO INTERVIEW
ONE HUNDRED PEOPLE.
DUE PROCESS DOES NOT REQUIRE
INTERVIEWING PEOPLE WHO DO NOT
HAVE.
AND ALL KNOWLEDGE OR WHO ARE NOT
LIKELY TO HAVE PERSONAL
KNOWLEDGE OF THE OF THE EVENTS
AND SO THERE IS A LIMIT TO THE
NUMBER OF.
INTERVIEWS THAT WE EXPECT FOLKS
TO CONDUCT AN INVESTIGATION AND
OF COURSE.
THE OTHER ELEMENT OF DUE
PROCESS THAT THERE'S A. THERE'S
THE PROCEDURE OF WOMEN OF IS
THIS PROCESS FAIR THERE'S A
SUBSTANTIVE ELEMENT OF WHAT
EXACTLY ARE YOU ALLOWING. THE
PARTIES TO DO AND THEN
ULTIMATELY IT ALSO REQUIRES
FOLKS TO COME TO A REASONABLE
AND FAIR CONCLUSION. I'M AND
THIS IDEA AGAIN I DON'T THINK
IT'S A PROBLEM FOR THIS BODY. IN
PARTICULAR BUT IN A VERY
SURPRISING NUMBER OF CASES THAT
WE SEE. ARE THE INVESTIGATION
LEADS ABSOLUTELY NOWHERE THERE'S
NO CONCLUSION ONE WAY OR THE
OTHER AT THE END OF THE
INVESTIGATION AND I JUST WANT TO
HIGHLIGHT FOR FOLKS WATCHING
THAT THAT IS NOT. AN EFFECTIVE
INVESTIGATION AND NOT WHAT WE
WOULD EXPECT TO SEE.
I'M.
WHEN IT COMES TO CONFIDENTIALITY
I YOU KNOW I THINK JUSTICE MIGHT
NOT TOUCHED ON THIS AS WELL.
THE SECOND THING YOU TELL
SOMEBODY WHAT THE ALLEGATIONS
ARE.
YOU KNOW WHO HAS A LOT OF THEM
I'M AND SO ONE OF THE THINGS I
THINK IT'S IMPORTANT FOR US TO
HIGHLIGHT TO FOLKS IS THAT.
.
WE WE THROW THE WORD
CONFIDENTIALLY CONFIDENTIALITY
AROUND AT THE END OF THE DAY BY
AND LARGE AND MOST WORKPLACES
EVERYBODY KNOWS EXACTLY WHAT IS
HAPPENING. AND IT'S JUST
IMPORTANT TO GET THAT OUT THERE
I'M SO THAT WE DON'T CREATE
UNREASONABLE EXPECTATIONS ON THE
PART OF PEOPLE WHO COME FORWARD
AS MUCH AS WE NEED TO PROTECT
THEM.
I'M. SO. WITH THANKS TO AMY FOR
HELPING ME BRAINSTORM ON THIS
ISSUE I DO THINK THAT THERE ARE.
THERE ARE TWO THINGS THAT WE
SHOULD FOCUS ON EVEN MORE THAN
CONFIDENTIALITY ONE IS HOW DO
YOU MANAGE THE FALLOUT WHEN
PEOPLE FIGURE OUT WHAT'S GOING
ON AS THEY DO. I'M IN ALMOST
EVERY INVESTIGATION SO WHAT KIND
OF MESSAGE ARE YOU SENDING TO
FOLKS WHEN THEY LEARNED THAT
THERE IS AN INVESTIGATION THAT
SOMEONE HAS BEEN ACCUSED OF
WRONGDOING THAT SOMEONE ELSE'S
LEVEL THAT UP. ACCUSATION. THEM
INTO AND CRUCIALLY HOW DO YOU.
PROTECT AND CONVEY YOUR
COMMITMENT TO PROTECTING
WITNESSES AND PARTIES.
FROM RETALIATION AND.
SADLY I THINK THAT RETALIATION
IS VERY REAL WE FREQUENTLY SEE
CASES WHERE THE UNDERLYING
CONDUCT MAY NOT IN FACT BE
SUBSTANTIATED BUT THE PERSON WHO
COMPLAINED DID IN FACT
EXPERIENCE RETALIATION FOR
BRINGING IT FORWARD AND THAT IS
A COMMON OCCURRENCE.
THAT I WOULD SAY IN BOTH PUBLIC
AND PRIVATE EMPLOYERS.
IT'S ALSO ENTIRELY HUMAN.
TO NOT LIKE SOMEBODY WHO HAS
ACCUSED HER DOING SOMETHING
WRONG.
AND SO I THINK THAT AS
INSTITUTIONS ARE NOT SOME
PLAYERS WE HAVE TO BE VERY CLEAR
ABOUT OUR COMMITMENT TO ANTI
RETALIATION PRINCIPLES.
I'M TIMELINESS IS IMPORTANT IN
HERE AND YOU KNOW THIS IS AGAIN
FOR. MANY EMPLOYERS WATCHING IF
YOU FARM THE INVESTIGATION OUT
JUST BE ALERTS TO DELAY. IN
GENERAL IF THE ALLEGATION IS
VERY SERIOUS EVENT INVOLVES
ALLEGATIONS OF FOR EXAMPLE
UNWANTED TOUCHING YOU NEED TO
TAKE HAS.
COME FORWARD IS PROTECTED.
GENERALLY WITHIN A FEW DAYS.
YOU NEED TO. WERE WITHIN A DAY
OR TWO YOU WANT TO CONTACT THE
COMPLAINT COMPLAIN AND THANK
THEM FOR. ODGING THE COMPLAINT
AND EXPLAINING THAT YOU WILL BE
CONDUCTING AN INVESTIGATION
ABOUT SOME FACT WHAT YOU'RE
GOING TO DO. I'M AND WE TRY AND
GET IT DONE WE AT THE DF YES I
WOULD LOVE TO GET IT DONE IN A
FEW WEEKS AND BY AND LARGE THAT
IS NOT POSSIBLE FOR US. BUT FOR
EMPLOYERS CONDUCTING INTERNAL
INVESTIGATIONS OFTEN IT IS NOW
THAT'S VERY DEPENDENT ON THINGS
LIKE IF SOMEBODY OUT ON LEAVE.
SOMEBODY ON VACATION OBVIOUSLY
THERE ARE MANY.
.
FACTORS TO BE CONSIDERED THEIR.
IMPARTIALITY OBVIOUSLY EVERY
INVESTIGATION MUST BE. IMPARTIAL
I'M AN EQUALLY IMPORTANT THERE
SHOULD NOT BE A PERCEPTION OF
PARTIALITY SO THE PERCEPTION OF
BIAS I NEVER SOMETHING THAT THIS
BODY IS. IS GRAPPLING WITH.
THERE IS NO LEGAL REQUIREMENT
TO EITHER DO SOMETHING
INTERNALLY OR FARM IT OUT TO AN
EXTERNAL BODY.
IN GENERAL THE HIGHER RANKING
THE PERSON WHO IS THE SUBJECT OF
THE COMPLAINT.
THE MORE CHANCE THAT THERE WILL
BE A PERCEPTION THAT THE
INSTITUTION ITSELF IS BIASED IN
FAVOR OF THAT PERSON. I'M SO
THAT'S A FACTOR TO CONSIDER AND
DECIDING WHETHER TO GIVE AN
INVESTIGATION TO AN OUTSIDE BODY
OR TAKE CONDUCTED INTERNALLY.
THERE'S SOME THE FACTORS IN THE
GUIDELINES ABOUT QUALIFICATIONS
AND TRAINING.
THERE ARE. SUGGESTIONS ABOUT
TYPES OF QUESTIONING AND
INEFFECTIVE INVESTIGATION.
AND THEN WE GET TO CREDIBILITY
DETERMINATIONS AND THIS IS VERY.
CRUCIAL BECAUSE ONE OF THE
THINGS THAT WE MOST FREQUENTLY
SEE.
AND IS THAT PEOPLE FIND IT VERY
DIFFICULT TO MAKE CREDIBILITY
DETERMINATIONS THE ABSENCE OF
EXTERNAL EVIDENCE OTHER THAN.
ONE PERSON SAYS SOMETHING
HAPPENED. THE OTHER PERSON SAYS
IT DIDN'T. AND OT SET IN SO WE
FREQUENTLY SEE EVEN VERY
EXPERIENCED INVESTIGATORS
WRITING THINGS LIKE THE ISSUE
REMAINS IN DISPUTE.
NO IT DOESN'T YOU'VE JUST
DECIDED THE ISSUE.
ANY DECIDED IN FAVOR OF THE
PERSON WHO'S BEEN ACCUSED
BECAUSE YOU'VE SAID THAT.
THAT PERSON THE EVIDENCE IS NOT
SUFFICIENT TO ESTABLISH IT. I'M
SO THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE
FOCUS ON A LOT WITH OUR OWN
STUFF THE DFU CHIN AND
EMPOWERING TO MAKE THAT CALL
IT'S A TOUGH CALL TO MAKE.
WE DON'T LIKE TO THINK THAT
PEOPLE ARE LYING TO US. I'M AND
I THINK ON A HUMAN LEVEL THIS IS
ONE OF THE MOST DIFFICULT
PROCESS OF AN INVESTIGATION
PARTICULARLY WHEN IT INVOLVES
SOMEONE THAT YOU KNOW WHICH IS
ALMOST ALWAYS THE CASE AND A
WORKPLACE.
HARASSMENT INVESTIGATION.
HERE AND ELSEWHERE.
WE TALK ABOUT CREDIBILITY
FACTORS IN OUR GUIDANCE AND WE
ALSO CAUTION ABOUT THE USE OF
DEMEANOR BECAUSE ONE OF THE
THINGS THAT SOCIAL SCIENCE TELLS
US IS THAT THERE IS NO ONE
DEMEANOR. THAT SOMEONE WHO HAS
EXPERIENCED HARASSMENT UP TO AND
INCLUDING ASSAULT HAS I'M THAT
PERSON MIGHT NOT MAKE EYE
CONTACT THAT PERSON MIGHT BE
VERY DIRECT THAT PERSON MIGHT BE
ANGRY. I'M THAT PERSON MIGHT BE
VERY RETIRING. THERE IS NO
COMMON THEME TO HELP PEOPLE.
RESPOND.
BURDEN OF PROOF WE HEARD A LOT
ABOUT THIS FROM JUSTICE MARINO
IN A WORKPLACE. HARASSMENT
INVESTIGATION AT THE DF PH WE
BELIEVE FINDING SHOULD BE BASED
ON A PREPONDERANCE OF EVIDENCE
THAT'S WHAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR.
WE ARE.
WE THINK THAT IS APPROPRIATE
BECAUSE THAT'S THE CIVIL LEGAL
STANDARD.
.
NOW WHETHER A PARTICULAR
EMPLOYER.
TAKES ACTION AND WHAT ACTION
THEY TAKE IS A DIFFERENT
QUESTION. BUT IN TERMS OF
REACHING A CONCLUSION
PREPONDERANCE OF THE EVIDENCE IS
THE STANDARD FOR WORKPLACE
HARASSMENT ALLEGATIONS WHICH ARE
CIVIL LAW ALLEGATIONS.
I'M IS THIS IS INTERESTING AND
SOMETHING FOR YOU GUYS TO DEBATE
INTERNALLY BUT.
THERE IS A DIFFERENT PRACTICES
IN TERMS OF WHAT THE
INVESTIGATION IS SUPPORT KIND OF
RECOMMENDATION IT'S SUPPOSED TO
RESULT IN AND VERY FREQUENTLY
EMPLOYERS DO NOT WANT LEGAL
RECOMMENDED LEGAL CONCLUSIONS OR
RECOMMENDATIONS ON THE FORM OF.
HARASSMENT TOOK PLACE.
INSTEAD THEY WANT FACTUAL
CONCLUSIONS WHICH SOMETIMES
AMOUNT TO THE SAME THING IT'S I
BELIEVE THAT FRED BY A
PREPONDERANCE OF THE EVIDENCE
SAID X. Y. Z. TO SALLY.
THAT GIVES EMPLOYERS A LITTLE
BIT MORE FLEXIBILITY AND. I'M
DETERMINING WHAT STEPS TO TAKE
WHEN THEY GET THAT FINAL
INVESTIGATION REPORT.
WE HAVE THE DOCUMENTATION ADVICE
THIS IS NOT A VERY LONG DOCUMENT
BY THE WAY IT'S EIGHT AND A HALF
PAGES BUT. WE TRY TO HIT THAT.
WE TRY TO HAVE THE GREATEST HITS
INCLUDING ANONYMOUS COMPLAINTS
ON THESE ARE REALLY TOUGH YOU
MIGHT SEE THEM. AND THEY SHOULD
BE INVESTIGATED THEY SHOULD NOT
DIE ON THE VINE. BUT THE WAY
THEY CAN BE INVESTIGATED WILL
DEPEND ON THE ALLEGATIONS AND
SOMETIMES THE ALLEGATIONS ARE SO
VAGUE.
BUT YOU CAN'T CONDUCT AN
INVESTIGATION SOMETIMES THE
ALLEGATIONS ARE VERY SPECIFIC
AND YOU CAN.
OFTEN WHAT CAN BE DONE IF YOU'RE
GETTING ANONYMOUS COMPLAINTS AS
SOMETHING'S GOING ON. I'M YOU
CAN CONDUCT WHAT'S CALLED AN
ENVIRONMENTAL ASSESSMENT OR
SURVEY TO FIGURE OUT WHAT PEOPLE
ARE THINKING.
I CAN PRETTY MUCH GUARANTEE
THAT THAT'S GOING TO STIR THE
POT BUT SOMETIMES IT'S WORTH IT
AND SOMETIMES IT'S A GOOD. THING
FOR AN EMPLOYER TO DO BECAUSE
PEOPLE ARE OBVIOUSLY
EXPERIENCING SOMETHING.
THERE ARE SPECIFIC PROBLEMS IF.
ACTUALLY I THINK THAT. THERE'S
A TYPO HERE RATHER THAN TARGET
IT SOULD BE I'M THE PERSON WHO
IS THE ACT.
LEVELING THE ACCUSATION.
IS THAT WHAT IS THAT WRITING ME.
YEAH I THINK OF THE TARGET IS
THAT IS A PERSON WHO IS MAKING
THE ACAPELLA TARGET OF THE
HARASSMENT BY SEA GOT IT GOT IT
NOT THE TARGET OF THAT. YES
COMPLAINTS GOT IT I'M SOMETIMES
PEOPLE ASK YOU NOT TO TAKE ANY
ACTION. FROM A LEGAL PERSPECTIVE
THAT IS VERY PROBLEMATIC.
AND WHAT I TELL PEOPLE IS THAT
THIS IS AN UNBELIEVABLY
DIFFICULT. SITUATION IT INVOLVES
A VERY HUMAN CONSIDERATIONS.
.
BUT CERTAINLY IF THE ACCUSATION
IS RELATIVELY MINOR THAN. YOU
KNOW COUNSELING WHATEVER. THERE
ARE PLENTY OF THINGS THAT YOU
CAN DO AS AN EMPLOYER TO KIND OF
REMEDY A SITUATION WHERE SOMEONE
FEELS UNCOMFORTABLE. I'M WITHOUT
TAKING FURTHER ACTION IF. IF THE
ACCUSATION IS VERY SERIOUS AND
WOULD IF TRUE BE A VIOLATION OF
LAW THAN FAILING TO TAKE ACTION
WHEN YOU KNOW ABOUT IT CAN
EXPOSE THE BODIES TO LIABILITY.
WITHOUT SAID THERE ARE VERY
HUMAN REASONS WHY PEOPLE DON'T
WANT ACTION TO BE TAKEN IN VERY
HUMAN REASONS WHY AN EMPLOYER
MIGHT DECIDE.
TO DO THAT.
RETALIATION IS COVERED OBVIOUSLY
OF MENTIONED IT. AND.
ONE THING THAT I JUST WANNA
HIGHLIGHT ON THIS LAST OF THE
SLIDES THAT I HAD IS. THE
IMPORTANCE TO MONITOR TO KEEP
MONITORING. I'M INTO CHECK BACK
IN WITH PEOPLE WHO HAVE LEVELED
ACCUSATIONS OF. MISCONDUCT TO
MAKE SURE THAT THEY ARE NOT
EXPERIENCING RETALIATION BECAUSE
IF THEY ARE. THEY'RE VERY
UNLIKELY TO COME FORWARD AGAIN
AND TO TELL YOU THAT THEY ARE
BECAUSE THEY ASSUME THAT YOU
NOW.
SO REACHING BACK OUT TO SOMEONE
WHETHER OR NOT THEIR ACCUSATIONS
WERE SUBSTANTIATED OVER THE
COURSE OF AN INVESTIGATION TO
MAKE SURE THAT THEY'RE DOING
OKAY IS A VERY WISE THING FOR
EMPLOYERS TO DO.
AND SO NOW SORT OF SEGUEING
INTO.
.
OUTSIDE OF THE DFG AGE
GUIDELINES WHICH I. WAS HAD THE
PLEASURE TO BE ABLE TO WORK ON.
MY BACKGROUND IS HAVING BEEN A
PLAINTIFF'S ATTORNEY IN THE
EIGHTIES DOING US SEXUAL
HARASSMENT CASES ON BEHALF OF
PLAINTIFFS.
AND THEN BEING INTERESTED IN
PREVENTION KIND OF WANTING TO
REVERSE ENGINEER HOW DID THESE
SITUATIONS GET HERE AND. HOW
COULD WE DO BETTER TO PREVENT
AND RESPOND RATHER THAN
LITIGATING IN MY EXPERIENCE
LITIGATION WAS NOT REALLY A VERY
GOOD SOLUTION?
AND SO OVER THE COURSE OF MY
CAREER I HAVE.
DONE INVESTIGATIONS I'VE TRAINED
INVESTIGATORS I WROTE A BOOK
ABOUT WORKPLACE INVESTIGATIONS
BY FORMED A PROFESSIONAL
ORGANIZATION FOR WORKPLACE
INVESTIGATORS IT'S NOW AN
INTERNATIONAL ORGANIZATION WITH
OVER EIGHT HUNDRED MEMBERS AND.
THAT THAT'S THE ASSOCIATION A
WORKPLACE INVESTIGATORS AND I
GAVE YOU THE GUIDING PRINCIPLES
AS PART OF YOUR MATERIALS.
AND I'VE TESTIFIED AS AN EXPERT
ON MANY OCCASIONS ABOUT
INVESTIGATIONS.
REALLY WITH THE BELIEF THAT.
.
THERE ARE SO MANY WORKPLACE
COMPLAINTS THAT HAVE TO BE DEALT
WITH INTERNALLY YOU CAN'T
OUTSOURCE ALL OF THEM. AND THE
BETTER JOB THAT WE CAN DO WITH
THEM THE BETTER WE CAN MAKE THE
WORK ENVIRONMENT FOR EVERYBODY
AND MAYBE A LITTLE BIT OF POLY
ANISH BUT.
AND FIRST JUST WANTED TO
ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THIS WORK IS
REALLY IMPORTANT WORK AND REALLY
APPRECIATING THAT YOU'RE TAKING
THE TIME TO LISTEN. TO SO MANY
OPINIONS AND MAKE CAREFUL
DECISIONS.
AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT
INFORMS MY WORK IS. THAT.
WE CAN'T PREVENT BET WRONG DOERS
WE CAN'T.
STOP THE THE HIGHER OR THE
ELECTION OF PEOPLE WHO MAY BE
BULLIES AND AND MAY DO THINGS
THAT. WE WOULD NEVER CONDONE BUT
WE CAN DO SOMETHING BETTER
RESPONSE.
AN INSTITUTIONAL RESPONSE MAKES
A HUGE DIFFERENCE PEOPLE WHO ARE
DO NOT GET A GOOD INSTITUTIONAL
RESPONSE ARE FURTHER HARM.
WHO DO GET A GOOD INSTITUTIONAL
RESPONSE MAY VERY WELL BE ABLE
TO? GO ON WITH THEIR LIVES IN
THEIR JOBS IN A POSITIVE WAY
AND.
THERE ARE STUDIES ON
INSTITUTIONAL BETRAYAL AND AND
HOW IT EXACERBATES TRAUMA. AND
SO I I THANK YOU FOR YOUR WORK
AND AND COME TO IT WITH THAT. IN
MIND.
I LISTEN TO THE PAST.
.
HEARINGS AND. PUT TOGETHER SORT
OF A LOT OF QUESTIONS AND POINTS
BECAUSE.
WHAT I'M CONCERNED ABOUT IS NOT
THINKING ABOUT SOME OF THE
UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES THAT MAY
COME?
OUT OF THE POLICY DECISIONS THAT
YOU MAKE IN MAKING SURE THAT.
THEIR THOUGHT THROUGH.
.
WE I THINK THAT YOU HAVE TO LOOK
AT BOTH THE PERSPECTIVE OF THE
PERSON WHO WAS THE TARGET AND
ALSO THE PERSPECTIVE OF THE
PERSON WHO IS ACCUSED.
AND.
WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT POLICIES
AND PROCEDURES THEY HAVE TO BE
ABLE TO HOLD BOTH OF THOSE
PERSPECTIVES. IN MIND.
THE OTHER THING I THINK YOU HAVE
TO KEEP IN MIND IS THAT.
WHILE AN AND I'D LIKE TO.
IS REARED IN SCALE OF SEXUAL
MISCONDUCT AND SO I'M USING THAT
IN SOME OF THE TERMS THAT. THAT
THERE IS A SCALED WE ARE TALKING
ABOUT. REALLY DIFFERENT BEHAVIOR
WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT
SOMEONE WHO MYSTERIES CUES AND
YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT SOMEBODY
ELSE WHO'S WHO SEXUALLY
ASSAULTED SOMEBODY THESE ARE
REALLY DIFFERENT SITUATIONS.
MOST OF THE SITUATIONS THAT. I
GET AS AN INVESTIGATOR.
ARE NOT ON THAT LEVEL OF
EGREGIOUS MIS I MEAN I AM. I
HAVE CERTAINLY INVESTIGATED MANY
OF THEM.
BUT NOT FIFTY PERCENT MAY BE TEN
PERCENT OF WHAT I INVESTIGATE IS
AT THAT LEVEL. MOST OF THE
COMPLAINTS THAT YOU'RE GOING TO
BE CONTENDING WITH. ARE NOT
GOING TO BE AT THAT AT A SERIOUS
LEVEL OF EGREGIOUS MIS.
AND YOU KNOW PEOPLE ALSO TALK
ABOUT WHAT ABOUT FALSE CLAIMS
THERE ARE VERY FEW FALSE CLAIMS.
BUT THERE ARE LOTS OF
MISUNDERSTANDING.
MISINTERPRETATIONS POOR MEMORIES
EXAGGERATIONS TAKING SOMETHING
OUT OF CONTEXT SO.
SO WE'RE WE'RE SORT OF TALKING
ABOUT THE EXCEPTIONAL CASE BUT
YOU'RE MAKING POLICIES.
FOR ALL OF THESE CASES WHICH ARE
MORE TYPICALLY.
GOING TO BE MORE GARDEN VARIETY
AND SO IF YOU'RE INSTITUTING A
DUE PROCESS HEARING DOES THAT
MEAN EVERY CASE GETS A DUE
PROCESS HEARING BY A PANEL. AND
WHAT IS THE FALL OUT OF THAT
BOTH FINANCIALLY AND IN THE
WORKPLACE. I MEAN REALLY WORK
COULD GRIND TO A HALT IF THAT
WAS THE CASE AND.
IT WOULD BECOME THE ONLY THING
PEOPLE WERE THINKING ABOUT AND
TALKING ABOUT AND AND YET THERE
ARE CASES THAT MAYBE YOU DON'T
WANT TO HAVE. THAT KIND OF
PROCESS.
.
IS THERE A MINIMUM BAR FOR
WHAT'S GOING TO BE INVESTIGATED.
YOU KNOW I YOU I TRAIN PEOPLE
YOU INVESTIGATE SOMETHING THAT
IF.
IF TRUE WOULD BE A SERIOUS
VIOLATION OF YOUR RULES AND
EXPECTATIONS AND STANDARDS.
AND THEY ARE CONTESTED FAX IT
MIGHT BE THE PEOPLE AGREE ABOUT
WHAT HAPPENED THEN YOU DON'T
HAVE TO INVESTIGATE IT.
BUT HOW SO HOW SERIOUS VIOLATION
WITH SOMETHING HAVE TO BE.
IF YOU LOOK AT THAT SCALE.
EVEN THE FIRST SCALE OF.
.
OF CONDUCT NON OFFENSIVE.
SOME PEOPLE WOULD SAY.
MY COWORKER TELLING ME YOU LOOK
LOVELY IS OFFENSIVE AND THAT I
CONSIDER THAT HARASSMENT I WANT
TO INVESTIGATE IT.
AND.
THAT THAT WOULD COME UNDER THE
SCALE OF A MINOR.
ARE NOT OFFENSIVE COMMENT.
WOULD YOU INVESTIGATED HOW DO
YOU DETERMINE THAT.
.
WHO GETS TO DECIDE WHAT'S GOING
TO BE INVESTIGATED?
AND.
THERE WAS A DISCUSSION OF WHAT
ONE OF THE HEARINGS ABOUT SCOPE
THE SAYING THAT THE
INVESTIGATOR.
SHOULD BE ABLE TO ADD ANYTHING
TO THE SCOPE AND MY PRACTICE
THAT'S UP TO MY CLIENT.
IF IT'S UP TO ME IS THAT LIKE
THE FULL IMPLEMENT ACT OF
NINETEEN. OF TWO THOUSAND
EIGHTEEN FOR ME BECAUSE YOU KNOW
THERE ARE LOTS OF THINGS GOING
ON. YOU HAVE TO REALLY PUT A LOT
OF TRUST IN THE INVESTIGATOR IF
THEY'RE GOING TO DETERMINE IT. I
UNDERSTAND THAT THERE CAN BE
MISTRUST THAT. THINGS ARE GONNA
COME UP THE NEW PLAYER IS NOT
GOING TO DEAL WITH SO HOW CAN
YOU HAVE. A PROCESS THAT PEOPLE
WILL TRUST BUT THAT STILL GIVES
YOU SOME CONTROL OF THAT.
AND.
ALL OF THIS IS IMPACTING PEOPLE
AT WORK EVERY DAY. GOING THROUGH
AN INVESTIGATION FOR THE
COMPLAINT FOR THE RESPONDENT FOR
ALL OF THE WITNESSES AND ALL THE
PEOPLE ARE CALLED AS WITNESSES.
IS ANXIETY PRODUCING IT'S TIME
CONSUMING.
IT CAN'T HAPPEN AS QUICKLY AS
PEOPLE WANT AND SO ALL. ALL OF
THIS IS DISRUPTIVE AND DIFFICULT
TO YOU HAVE TO MAKE CHOICES
ABOUT WHEN IS IT WORTH.
THAT DESTRUCTION AND ARE THERE
OTHER WAYS FOR THIS PARTICULAR
COMPLAINT. THAT WOULD BE A
CREDIBLE WAY OF HANDLING IT.
.
THERE'S A LOT OF DISCUSSION
ABOUT CONFIDENTIALITY WHO GETS
ACCESS TO INFORMATION.
ONE OF MY CONCERNS IS ALWAYS
WITNESSES WHO IN YOU YOU TALK TO
WITNESSES WHO ARE WORRIED ABOUT
RETALIATION SOMETIMES THEY'RE
WORRIED THAT THE PERSON WHO'S
ACCUSED IS GOING TO RETALIATE
SOMETIMES THEY'RE WORRIED. THE
PERSON WHO MADE THE ACCUSATION
IS GONNA RETALIATE THESE ARE
PEOPLE WHO KNOW EACH OTHER WELL.
THEIR CAMPS AT WORK.
AND. IF YOU'RE GOING TO BE
REVEALING THE REPORT.
I'M USED TO WRITING A VERY
DETAILED REPORT BECAUSE I'M AN
OUTSIDER I WANT YOU TO KNOW
EVERYTHING I KNOW ABOUT THIS
WORK ENVIRONMENT BECAUSE IF I
DON'T TELL YOU.
THEN NOBODY'S GONNA KNOW.
BUT IF I DO THAT.
EVEN IF I.
.
IF I TRY TO KEEP PEOPLE
ANONYMOUS WHICH SENT YOU KNOW
SOMETIMES I WON'T HOWEVER YOU
PRONOUNCE THAT WORD ANIMAL TO
ANALYZE I CAN'T SAY.
MAKING MAKING SOMETHING THERE'S
A WORD FOR MAKING SOMETHING
ANONYMOUS ANIMALIZE. ALONG THE
LINE. THANK YOU. OKAY I LEARNED
IT RELATIVELY RECENTLY MYSELF.
AND UP BUT YET.
IT'S SO OBVIOUS TO PEOPLE ARE IN
THESE YOU KNOW THESE ARE THESE
SMALL WORK ENVIRONMENT LIKE
EACH.
.
SENATOR ASSEMBLY PERSONS.
HAS JUST BEEN A NUMBER OF PEOPLE
WORKING FOR THEM AND SO. THERE'S
NOT A HUGE UNIVERSE I MEAN IN
MOST WORK ENVIRONMENTS THERE'S
NOT A HUGE UNIVERSE AND SO. YOU
MAY THINK THAT YOU'RE KEEPING
SOMEBODY ANONYMOUS WHEN YOU'RE
NOT.
SO WIDE ACCESS TO THIS
INFORMATION ON THE ONE HAND YOUR
YOU KNOW THAT'S GREAT THAT
YOU'RE. LETTING PEOPLE KNOW THAT
YOU ARE TAKING THESE SERIOUSLY
AND ON THE OTHER HAND THERE IS A
FALL OUT ON PEOPLE AT WORK DAY
TODAY.
AS YOU GO THROUGH THIS PROCESS
IT IT DOES SEEM LIKE THERE'S A
BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN HOW
YOU'RE GOING TO HANDLE THE
SITUATION WITH ANY THE ELECTED.
AND EVERYBODY ELSE THAT THAT
THAT IS A DIFFERENT ANIMAL I'VE
DONE INVESTIGATIONS.
INVOLVING ELECTED OFFICIALS.
THAT THERE ARE LIMITATIONS ON
OBVIOUSLY WHAT YOU CAN DO WITH
ELECTED OFFICIALS THAT YOU DON'T
HAVE THE SAME KIND OF LIMITS ON.
WITH OTHER EMPLOYEES.
AND. I.
TREATING THEM DIFFERENTLY WOULD
MAKE SENSE TO ME IN TERMS OF
FASHIONING THESE SO THAT YOU
BOTH HAVE. A DIFFERENT PROCESS
ELECTED NON ELECTED AND A
DIFFERENT PROCESS DEPENDING ON
THE SEVERITY. OF THE ALLEGATION
AND AND THE POSSIBLE CONSEQUENCE
THAT IT COULD LEAD TO.
I'M.
JUST TO SORT OF TALK FOR A
MINUTE ABOUT THE WHOLE. RIGHT
AND WRONG IN A WINNER LOSER
PARADIGM THAT WE GET INTO WITH
THIS WHICH.
YOU KNOW THERE ARE HARVEY
WEINSTEIN'S AND RIGHT AND WRONG
IS JUST ABSOLUTELY CLEAR THERE
IS NO QUESTION.
BUT AGAIN WHEN WE GET INVOLVED
IN INVESTIGATING THESE
SITUATIONS. IT IS NOT ALWAYS SO
CLEAR. SURE THERE ARE SOMETIMES.
BUT.
AS THERE ARE ARE SERIOUS
ABUSIVE SITUATIONS.
AND YET THE MAJORITY.
MIGHT BE PEOPLE WHO WERE CLOSE
AT ONE TIME AND AREN'T CLOSE
ANYMORE HAD AN UNDERSTANDING
DON'T HAVE AN UNDERSTANDING.
THAT HAVE VERY. ONGOING
COMPLICATED RELATIONSHIPS THAT
WE WALK INTO THE MIDDLE OF AND
THEN TRY TO UNDERSTAND.
AND SO AND I KNOW WHAT WE'RE
GONNA TALK ABOUT YOU'RE GONNA
HEAR NEXT ABOUT RESTORATIVE
JUSTICE BUT ONE OF THE THINGS
THAT REALLY GETS LOST IN THIS
IS.
OTHER SOLUTIONS AND FOR THE
WORKPLACE. CAN WE EVER USE
MEDIATION IN SITUATIONS THAT ARE
VERY SERIOUS CAN WE EVER. GET
PEOPLE TALKING TO EACH OTHER
BECAUSE. THIS KIND OF
INVESTIGATION.
IT WAS EITHER FOUNDED OR NOT
FOUNDED AND THEN PEOPLE MOVE ON
AND HAVE THEIR RIGHTS OR THEY
THEY AREN'T HURT.
DOESN'T REALLY SOLVE A LOT OF
THE UNDERLYING ISSUES AND.
BECAUSE YOU GET A PROCESS FOR
THESE KINDS OF COMPLAINTS. YOU
END UP GETTING COMPLAINTS THEY
DON'T REALLY BELONG HERE BECAUSE
PEOPLE DON'T FEEL HEARD ANYWHERE
ELSE.
AND SO THE SAME TIME. IF YOU CAN
HAVE A PROCESS FOR PEOPLE TO AIR
GRIEVANCES. AND HEAR EACH OTHER
AND TAKE SOME OF THE PRESSURE
OFF OF THIS SYSTEM. THAT WOULD
BE A GOOD THING.
YEAH.
I AGREE ENTIRELY WITH THAT I
JUST WANNA ADD.
THERE'S SOMETHING TO IT WHICH IS
FROM AN ENFORCEMENT PERSPECTIVE
WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT AN
EMPLOYER.
AND TRYING TO DECIDE WHETHER
THEY DOCTORED REASONABLY ONE OF
THE THINGS THAT'S A RED FLAG FOR
US ISIF THEY HAVEN'T ACTED
DECISIVELY IN THOSE FEW
SITUATIONS AS FEW COMPLAINTS
WHEN IT IS CLEAR. RIGHT WHEN
THERE'S AN ALLEGATION OF
PHYSICAL ASSAULT FOR EXAMPLE AND
SO BUNDLING THOSE. TEN PERCENT
OF THE CASES. TOTALLY UNDERMINES
FAITH THAT THERE CAN BE A MORE
RESTORATIVE.
A MORE NUANCED. APPROACH TO THE
LESS SERIOUS ALLEGATIONS WHAT'S
REALLY IMPORTANT TO GET THE
SERIOUS CASES RIGHT AND IF AN
EMPLOYER CAN GET THE SERIOUS
CASES RIGHT. AND THERE'S A LOT
MORE.
GOOD FAITH BROUGHT BY ALL
PARTIES IN RESOLVING GUY
COMPLAINS THAT.
MAY OR MAY NOT RISE TO THE
LEVEL OF A VIOLATION OF THE LAW
OR THE POLICY BUT NONETHELESS
ARE CAUSING PROBLEMS IN THE
WORKPLACE.
I'M.
THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF TALK ABOUT
ZERO TOLERANCE IT'S I DON'T. I
DON'T LIKE WHAT ARE CALLED ZERO
TOLERANCE POLICIES UNLESS IT'S
CLEAR THAT WHAT IT MEANS IS.
THAT EVERYTHING WILL BE
RESPONDED TO.
IT'S TOO OFTEN UNDERSTOOD TO
MEAN ANYBODY WHO CROSSES THIS
LINE WILL BE TERMINATED AND AND.
OBVIOUSLY THAT'S A PROBLEM.
THE ASSEMBLY POLICY SAYS IT DOES
HAVE A STRICTER STANDARD THAN
THE LAW.
AND IT USES THE TERM ZERO HOT
TOLERANCE BUT THEN IT GOES ON TO
DEFINE SEXUAL HARASSMENT IN THE
MOST NARROW OF WAYS REPEATING
THE LEGAL DEFINITION SO THAT
THERE'S AN INTERNAL
CONTRADICTION THERE.
RIGHT NOW I'M WORKING WITH TWO
DIFFERENT ORGANIZATIONS ONE OF
THEM. HAS A SEXUAL HARASSMENT
POLICY THAT YOU HAVE TO IT HAS
TO BE FOR SEVERE PERVASIVE SO IT
EXACTLY MIRRORS THE LAW.
THE OTHER ONE HAS A SEXUAL
HARASSMENT POLICY THAT DOESN'T
EVEN SAY IT HAS TO BE ON
WELCOME.
IT'S JUST ANYTHING THAT'S
UNPROFESSIONAL.
AND YOU KNOW THE USER.
I THINK THERE ARE PROBLEMS WITH
BOTH OF THOSE.
IN THE ON THE ONE HAND. PEOPLE
MIGHT GET TERMINATED FIRST FOR
SOMETHING QUOTE UNQUOTE
UNPROFESSIONAL BECAUSE IT
VIOLATES THE SEXUAL HARASSMENT
POLICY. AND IF OU MAKE A
FINDING THAT SOMETHING VIOLATES
A CIGARETTE POLICY INFERENCES
THIS WAS SERIOUS.
AND YET IT WAS SIMPLY SOMETHING
QUOTE ON QUOTE AND PROFESSIONAL.
ON THE OTHER HAND YOU MAY GET
SOMEBODY WHO DOES THINGS THAT
WOULD CLEARLY VIOLATE YOUR
EXPECTATIONS THAT WOULDN'T BE
MADE A LEGAL DEFINITION. OF
SEVERE PERVASIVE AND IT LOOKS
LIKE UNDER YOUR POLICY YOU
COULDN'T DO ANYTHING AND AND SO
I WOULD. ENCOURAGE YOU TO
CLARIFY. THOSE POLICIES.
.
I ALREADY TALKED A LITTLE BIT
ABOUT. THIS THE CONFIDENTIALITY
ISSUE.
IT IS GOING TO IMPACT. EVERYBODY
INVOLVED.
IT MAY ALSO IMPACT HOW THE
REPORT IS WRITTEN.
IF SOMEBODY'S GOING TO HAVE FULL
ACCESS TO A REPORT.
I MIGHT.
THINK THAT THIS IS GOING TO BE A
REALLY EXPLOSIVE FACT FOR PEOPLE
NOT BECAUSE IT MAKES SOMEBODY
MORE OR LESS CLINICAL GUILTY BUT
BECAUSE. IT WOULD BE HIGHLY
EMBARRASSING TO SOMEBODY WHO
ISN'T EVEN DIRECTLY INVOLVED AND
DOESN'T NEED TO BE HIGHLY
EMBARRASSED.
AND SO I.
THE FEAR IS THAT OF CENSORING.
IF YOU HAVE SUCH WIDE ACCESS TO
THE REPORT.
.
I KNOW THERE WAS A THERE'S BEEN
A LOT OF DISCUSSION ABOUT
CONFIDENTIALITY CLAUSES AND I
UNDERSTAND THE PUBLIC POLICY
ISSUE. I ALSO KNOW AS AN
ATTORNEY.
THEN AGAIN YOU GET A LOT OF
CASES THAT ARE NOT.
VERY SERIOUS AND THAT COULD
SETTLE WITH A CONFIDENTIALITY
CLAUSE AND EVEN PLAINTIFF'S
ATTORNEY WOULD LIKE IT TO
SETTLE.
FOR THE PLAINTIFF WOULD LIKE TO
SETTLE SO IF YOU CAN'T HAVE A
CONFIDENTIALITY CLAUSE. THOSE
CASES MAY LITIGATE.
THAT MAY NOT BE A GOOD THING I
MEAN THAT'S AGAIN SORT OF THE
LAW OF UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES
IF YOU HAVE.
TARGETS OF HARASSMENT WHO WERE
TOLD.
YES WE CAN DO SOMETHING FOR YOU
WE CAN RESOLVE YOUR CASE BUT.
ONLY IF WE DO KEEP IT
CONFIDENTIAL OTHERWISE THIS IS
GOING TO TRIAL.
MIGHT NOT ALWAYS BE THE BEST
OPTION.
RIGHT. I JUST WANT TO ADD A NOTE
OF CAUTION THERE THAT END UP IN
THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH ANYTHING
THAT WE SIGN IS DEFINITION ONLY.
NOT CONFIDENTIAL SO ANY STATE
EMPLOYER. I. STATE DEPARTMENT
THAT REACHES A ETTLEMENT THAT
SETTLEMENT UNDER THE PUBLIC
RECORDS ACT REQUEST AS
INCOMPETENCE YET CONFIDENTIAL.
BASED ON THAT EMPIRICAL REALITY
I HAVE.
.
I HAVE SOME DOUBTS ABOUT HOW
MUCH CONFIDENTIALITY MATTERS. I
THINK THE CASE IS SETTLED OR
THEY DON'T.
EYES CERTAINLY AGREED THAT IT
CAN BE EASIER TO SETTLE A CASE
WITH CONFIDENTIALITY OF ALL THE
PARTIES AGREE BUT HAVING THAT
OPTION OFF THE TABLE. HAS NOT
BEEN MY EXPERIENCE MATED.
IMPOSSIBLE TO SETTLE CASES EVEN
EVEN MORE MINOR CASES WELL
THAT'S THAT'S GOOD TO KNOW AND I
DON'T MIND BEING WRONG ABOUT
THAT.
THE ATTORNEY CLIENT PRIVILEGE
WHEN.
.
MOSTLY WHEN THIS IS OUTSOURCES
OUTSOURCED TO ATTORNEYS AND WITH
IT I HAVE A SLIGHT ABOUT THAT
LATER BUT.
.
MOSTLY IT'S DONE UNDER THE
ATTORNEY CLIENT PRIVILEGE I KNOW
AGAIN THAT THERE ARE THERE'S AN
ARGUMENT FOR BUT THAT MEANS YOU
COULD BE HIDING INFORMATION IT
SHOULD BE DONE. AS A NON
PRIVILEGED INVESTIGATION. AND IN
FACT IF IT'S USED AS A DEFENSE
THEN THE ENTITY HAS TO WAIVE THE
PRIVILEGE.
THE THINGS TO THINK ABOUT IS
THAT. AS AN INVESTIGATOR I WANT
YOU TO GIVE ME VERY WIDE
INFORMATION I WANT YOU TO OPEN
UP EVERYTHING TO ME.
AND.
MY CLIENTS ARE WILLING TO DO
THAT WITH THE UNDERSTANDING
THAT.
IT'S A PRIVILEGE.
I MAY FIND SOMETHING OUT THAT
DOESN'T HAVE TO DO WITH CURRENT
COMPLAINT.
AND MOVE THAT MAYBE SOMETHING
THEN THAT EVEN IF SOMETHING WENT
TO TRIAL IT COULD BE KEPT AS.
UNDER THE PRIVILEGE.
BECAUSE IT WAS A PRIVILEGE
INVESTIGATION IF IT'S NOT DONE
UNDER THE PRIVILEGE MIGHT IT
PERHAPS IS EXPOSING THAT
INFORMATION. TO THE PUBLIC
SCRUTINY.
YOU MIGHT FIND. THAT.
ENTITIES GENERALLY IF THEY'RE
NOT DOING THIS UNDER THE
ATTORNEY CLIENT PRIVILEGE. MAY
NOT BE AS GENEROUS WITH THE
INFORMATION THAT. WE AS
INVESTIGATORS HOPE THEM TO BE.
AND SO AGAIN THAT MIGHT BE AN
UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCE THAT.
.
COULD BE PROBLEMATIC TO REALLY
GETTING THE INFORMATION TO MAKE
THE RIGHT FIND.
I THINK WE I TALKED ABOUT SCOPE
ALREADY I DON'T KNOW.
.
THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF DISCUSSION
ABOUT YOU SHOULDN'T BE LIMITING.
THE COMPLAINTS TO ONE YEAR WHICH
I CERTAINLY AGREE WITH BUT THEN
I WOULD ALSO BE CAREFUL ABOUT
SAYING THAT.
EVERYTHING IS GOING TO BE
INVESTIGATED REGARDLESS OF.
WHEN THE COMPLAINT EMANATED
AGAIN I THINK YOU NEED TO LOOK
AT THE SERIOUSNESS.
IF IF WE ASSUME THAT YOU'RE
TALKING ABOUT A SERIOUS SEXUAL
ASSAULT I. TOTALLY AGREE.
BUT YOU'RE GOING TO GET A LOT OF
COMPLAINTS THAT ARE NOT THAT
SERIOUS. AND IF YOU'RE GONNA GO
BACK TEN TWENTY YEARS.
IN A COMPLAINT THAT INVOLVES
PERHAPS PEOPLE WHO WEREN'T EVEN
HERE OR SOME WITNESSES WHO ARE
HERE.
INTERPRETATION OF EVENTS THAT
ARE AMBIGUOUS IT'S GOING TO BE.
MORE DIFFICULT TO MAKE A FINDING
AND.
IT MAY NOT ALWAYS BE WORTH IT
FOR YOU TO DO THAT SO. YOU CAN I
THINK HAVE TO EXERCISE SOME
DISCRETION.
WHEN DETERMINING HOW WHETHER TO
GO FURTHER BACK IN A PARTICULAR
CASE CERTAINLY A YEAR IS VERY
SHORT.
PERIOD OF TIME THOUGH AND AND
TWO SHORT I THINK.
THE AND NOT THE ISSUE THE
ANONYMOUS COMPLAINTS I THINK
THAT WHAT'S TRICKY HERE IS IS
WHAT KEVIN WAS TALKING ABOUT
EARLIER. IT'S NOT THE COMPLAINT.
WHERE YOU DON'T KNOW WHO'S
COMPLAINING BECAUSE THEN YOU
JUST GO FORWARD?
IT'S THE COMPLAINT WHERE YOU DO
KNOW WHO'S COMPLAINING BUT THEY
DON'T WANT ANYBODY ELSE TO KNOW
AND YOU HAVE AN OBLIGATION TO GO
FORWARD.
AND I THINK WHAT YOU NEED THERE
IS CLARITY IN YOUR POLICIES
THAT.
I KNOW YOU HAVE A WE'VE THAT
PEOPLE CAN GO TO AND KEP IT
CONFIDENTIAL THAT IF YOU WANT TO
KEEP THIS CONFIDENTIAL THAT'S
YOUR ROUTE.
IF YOU GO A DIFFERENT ROUTE WE
CAN'T KEEP IT CONFIDENTIAL. AND
EXPLAIN WHY AND USUALLY THAT
PERSON EVENTUALLY WHAT WILL COME
AROUND BUT BUT THAT'S REALLY THE
THE TRICKY ISSUE I THINK.
.
I KNOW HE IS ONE OF YOUR BIG
DECISION POINTS IS WHO IS GOING
TO DO THESE INVESTIGATIONS.
AND.
SHOULD YOU HAVE AN OUTSIDE BODY.
ON.
ULTIMATELY YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE
FOR EVER A HARASSMENT FREE
WORKPLACE FOR PREVENTING
HARASSMENT FOR RESPONDING TO
HARASSMENT.
AND.
QUERY WHETHER YOU CAN OUTSOURCE
THAT AND IF SO WHO YOU WOULD
OUTSOURCE THAT. TO.
.
THERE HASN'T BEEN A LOT OF
DISCUSSION OF THIS BUT.
IN UNDER CALIFORNIA LAW THE.
BUSINESS AND PROFESSIONS CODE
PRIVATE INVESTIGATORS ACT.
MANDATES THAT AN OUTSIDER WHO
DOES INVESTIGATION HAS TO EITHER
BE A LICENSED PRIVATE
INVESTIGATOR. OR AN ATTORNEY
ACTING IN HIS OR HER CAPACITY AS
AN ATTORNEY SO ANYBODY CAN DO IT
INTERNALLY.
AND HOPEFULLY THOSE PEOPLE ARE
GOING TO BE WELL TRAINED BECAUSE
THAT'S REALLY THE BIGGEST ISSUE
FOR THE INTERNAL FOLKS.
IF YOU'RE GONNA USE AN EXTERNAL
THEN.
YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO EITHER USE
A LICENSED PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR
OF WHOM THERE ARE SOME WHO ARE
VERY QUALIFIED TO DO THIS THE
CURRENT PRESIDENT OF EIGHT OF
THE YCJA. LICENSED PRIVATE
INVESTIGATOR NON ATTORNEY.
BUT.
THERE IS A SMALLER POOL.
OR MOSTLY YOU'RE GOING TO BE
USING ATTORNEYS WHO SHOULD HAVE
AN ATTORNEY CLIENT RELATIONSHIP
WITH YOU THAT DOESN'T MEAN IT
HAS TO BE PRIVILEGED BECAUSE YOU
CAN WAIVE THE PRIVILEGE. BUT
THERE STILL HAS TO BE AN
ATTORNEY CLIENT. RELATIONSHIP.
NOW. I DON'T KNOW ABOUT SETTING
UP A COMMISSION I'M NOT AN
EXPERT ON THAT SO YOU KNOW IT'S
IT'S INTRIGUING.
BUT AGAIN I WOULD.
IT STILL SEEMS TO ME THAT NINETY
PERCENT OF YOUR COMPLAINTS ARE
GOING TO BE INVESTIGATED BY.
EITHER AN INTERNAL PERSON OR AN
EXTERNAL PERSON NOT A.
NOT A COMMISSION NOT A OR A.
A WHOLE JUDICATA BODY.
IF YOU SET THAT UP FOR EVERY
COMPLAINT THAT WOULD BE YOU KNOW
QUITE AN EXPENSIVE AND
CUMBERSOME PROCESS.
.
I WOULD LOVE TO HAVE A.
I'M NEUTRAL BODY THAT COULD DO
THESE WE DON'T REALLY HAVE THAT
RIGHT NOW.
PEOPLE TALK ABOUT BUYS BECAUSE
THE EMPLOYER PAYS AND THAT
THAT'S A SYSTEM IT'S YOUR
RESPONSIBILITY SO YOU DO PAY.
.
IT'S JUST SORT OF WHAT WE'VE
GOT.
AND YOU KNOW SOME IDEAS ABOUT
MESSAGING.
THAT YOU CAN DO.
IN ORDER TO FOR PEOPLE TO
UNDERSTAND HOW AN INSTITUTION
CAN INVESTIGATE ITSELF AND BE
IMPARTIAL OKAY OKAY. I CAN JUST
YOU WANT ME TO JUST WE CAN GO ON
TO QUESTIONS OKAY.
ONE TO FINISH THE SLIDES ARM I
THINK THIS MIGHT BE THE LAST ONE
SO JUST YOU KNOW WHAT WHAT WE
TRY TO TRAIN INVESTIGATORS IN
IS.
THERE AREN'T BAD FACTS THEY'RE
JUST FAX AND THAT THAT
INVESTIGATORS ARE DOING FACT
FINDING.
AND.
THAT YOU WANT PEOPLE WITH A LOT
OF AUTHORITY.
OR WHO AND WHO ARE ANSWERING TO
BE WITH A LOT OF AUTHORITY
BECAUSE THE LESS AUTHORITY YOU
HAVE THE MORE YOU'RE GOING TO
FEEL BEHOLDEN TO SOMEBODY'S
POINT OF VIEW.
AND BE IMPACTED BY THAT IN WAYS
THAT MAYBE THE INVESTIGATOR
ISN'T EVEN AWARE.
OKAY SO.
THANK YOU THAT WAS REALLY REALLY
HAVE VERY LITTLE A LIMITED IF
FOR US AND I THINK A LOT OF US
HAVE BEEN WONDERING KIND OF. HOW
OUR INVESTIGATIONS DYNAMITED THE
BEST PRACTICES AND THAT ENTERED
A LOT AND I I WANT TO CLARIFY
THAT WHEN I WAS SPEAKING EARLIER
ABOUT? YOU KNOW SORT OF AN
OUTSIDE BODY I WAS THINKING MORE
ABOUT THE ACCOUNTABILITY PORTION
AND WHAT HAPPENS AFTER
INVESTIGATIONS RETURNED.
BECAUSE I HAVE NO DOUBT THAT.
WE CAN AND AND MOST PROBABLY DO
VERY EFFECTIVE INVESTIGATIONS
WHEN IT COMES TO SERIOUS
ALLEGATIONS AT THIS POINT.
BUT I THINK IT'S THE NEXT STEP
IN WHEN THAT INVESTIGATION COMES
BACK AND WE DO THE FACTUAL TYPE
OF. DOMESTICATION WHERE THEY
DON'T COME BACK AND SAY IT'S
SEXUAL HARASSMENT THEY COME BACK
AND THEY SAY WE THINK THIS EVENT
HAPPENED IN THAT ABOUT HAPPENS.
WHAT HAPPENS AFTER THAT NAPS I
THINK WHEN IT COMES TO MEMBERS
OF THE LEGISLATURE?
SOMETHING THAT WE'RE STILL.
UNDER DISCUSSION ABOUT WHAT WHAT
HAPPENS AFTER THAT I AND THAT'S
WHERE IT'S A LOT LESS CLEAR TO
ME ANYWAY AND WHERE I THINK WE
REALLY WERE GOING TO NEED TO BE
DOING QUITE A LOT OF DISCUSSION
I THINK WITH EMPLOYEES THAT'S. A
LOT EASIER BUT WITH ELECTED
OFFICIALS SAID IT IT SEEMS LIKE
IT'S MORE DIFFICULT I HAVE A
QUESTION BEFORE I MOVE ON TO THE
PANEL UP HERE. OUT YOU KNOW WE
TALKED A LOT ABOUT RETALIATION
AGAINST WITNESSES RETALIATION
AGAINST PEOPLE BRINGING CLAIMS
WONDER IF YOU HAVE ANY COMMENT
ABOUT RETALIATION TOWARDS PEOPLE
THAT ARE ACCUSED TOUR THEN. OF
THE INVESTIGATION COMES BACK AND
IT'S EITHER NOT DETERMINATIVE OR
UNSUBSTANTIATED AND HOW WE. OR
SHOULD WE BE WORRIED ABOUT
PROTECTING THOSE INDIVIDUALS
ESPECIALLY IF THE INVESTIGATION
HAS BECOME PUBLIC.
I THINK YOU DO I MEAN I THINK
EVERYBODY INVOLVED HAS THE SAME
RIGHTS COMPLAINT IS NOT
SUBSTANTIATED
YOU NEED TO SIT DOWN AND HAVE
THAT CONVERSATION. AND TELL
PEOPLE THAT TELL THE PEOPLE
INVOLVED THAT IT'S NOT
SUBSTANTIATED AND I THINK.
TO ONE OF THE. THINGS THAT I'VE
SEEN HAPPEN IS THAT PEOPLE KNOW
THAT THERE'S AN INVESTIGATION
AND THEN THEY NEVER KNOW WHAT
HAPPENED IN THAT LEAVES THIS
KIND OF CLOUD SUSPICION OVER THE
ENTIRE THING AND YOU CAN. PLAY A
ROLE IN REMOVING THAT CLOUD.
BY JUST TELLING PEOPLE WHAT THE
RESULT IS.
I SHOULD MENTION.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH MADAM CHAIR.
I WAS STRUCK BY YOUR.
.
FLY THE TALK REALLY ABOUT THE
NINETY TEN KIND OF RULE.
AND THAT.
TO QUOTE YOU SLIDE VERY VERY
FEW FALSE CLAIMS ALL YOU'LL HEAR
EMPLOYERS WE HERE IN THIS
BUILDING THE NOTION THAT.
PEOPLE WILL DEFAULT TO A CLAIM
OF WORKPLACE HARASSMENT OR
SEXUAL HARASSMENT ON BECAUSE
THEY'RE AND THEY'RE RIGHT A
DISGRUNTLED EMPLOYEE OR ON A
MEMBER HAS BEEN ATTEMPTING TO.
ENGAGING CORRECTIVE ACTION AND
MOVE ABOUT AND THEN THAT'S WHEN
EMPLOYEE WILL YOU KNOW SO THAT'S
WHAT YOU HEAR A LOT KIND OF. NOT
JUST HERE BUT IN IN THE WORK.
THE EMPLOYER SIDE OF THINGS CAN
YOU TALK A LITTLE ABOUT THAT
BECAUSE YOU KNOW WE'RE DEALING
WITH PERCEPTIONS. PERCEPTIONS OF
VICTIMS PERCEPTIONS OF THE
PERPETRATORS AND HOW WE DIDN'T.
GET PAST THOSE PERCEPTIONS TO
SOME OF THOSE THE BRASS TACKS
THE REALITIES OF WHAT YOU'VE
EXPERIENCED WITH YEARS OF
EXPERIENCE AND YOUR BELT
INVESTIGATING THESE KINDS OF
CLAIMS. WELL. I THINK THAT
WHAT'S RARE IS SOMEBODY MAKING
SOMETHING UP. OUT OF WHOLE
CLOTH.
NO BUT SOMEBODY TAKING SOMETHING
OUT OF CONTEXT BECAUSE THEY'RE
ANGRY WITH SOMEBODY. OR
EXAGGERATING IT OR COMPLAINING
ABOUT SOMETHING THAT MAYBE THEY.
DIDN'T REALLY CARE ABOUT AT THE
TIME. YOU KNOW WHAT IT MEAN
THERE'S ALL SORTS OF NUANCES TO
THEM. AND SO IT'S MORE
UNDERSTANDING.
WHAT MAKES SOMEBODY COMPLAIN
WHEN THEY DO IS THERE A MOTIVE
OTHER THAN THEY WERE OFFENDED?
AND THEN THE FACT THAT THERE MAY
BE A MOTIVE DOESN'T MEAN THAT IT
DIDN'T HAPPEN BUT IT MAY COLOR
HOW SERIOUS IT WAS OR HOW OR
WHAT THE INITIAL REACTION WAS.
I'LL JUST ADD THAT THE. THE BEST
SOCIAL SCIENCE THAT I'VE SEEN
SUGGESTS THAT SERIOUS
ALLEGATIONS INVOLVING. FOR
EXAMPLE ASSAULT.
THOSE ARE ALMOST ALWAYS TRUE.
A VANISHINGLY SMALL PERCENTAGE
OF THOSE ALLEGATIONS ARE FALSE
THERE ARE SOME AND WE HAVE TO
CATCH THEM BT SOMETHING LIKE
NINETY FIVE PERCENT OF THOSE ARE
TRUE. WITH THAT SAID IT DF PH WE
SEE A HUGE NUMBER OF COMPLAINTS
THAT EVEN IF TRUE WOULD NOT
VIOLATE. THE LAW AND I THINK
THIS IS PARTLY BECAUSE I'M
PEOPLE HAVE VERY FEW AVENUES TO
EXPRESS. THINGS THAT ARE GOING
WRONG.
THEY KNOW THAT THIS IS ONE
AVENUE TO DO IT AND THEY KNOW
THAT IF THEY SAY THE WORDS
DISCRIMINATION OR HARASSMENT
THAT IT WILL BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY
AND SO IT IS.
SO THAT'S SOMETHING THAT I
THINK IT'S EMPLOYERS WE ALL HAVE
TO BE ALERT TO AND SO IT'S NOT
WRONG THAT PEOPLE BRING ALL
KINDS OF ALLEGATIONS FORWARD
THAT AREN'T ULTIMATELY
HARASSMENT OR DISCRIMINATION.
BUT IT'S ALSO NOT WRONG THAT
WHEN THERE ARE SERIOUS
ALLEGATIONS THAT BY AND LARGE
THEY ARE TRUE.
THANK YOU FOR THAT IS MY LAST
QUESTION AT THE COMMENT ON MY I
APPRECIATE.
THIS NOTION OF BECAUSE I THINK
IT'S TYPICAL FACTION FACTOR
FASHION SOMETHING HAPPEN GIVEN
THE JERK AND WE. ALL RUN TO THE
THIS SITE KIND OF OF THE ROOM
AND SO WE'RE GOING TO. HAVE
OUTSIDE INVESTIGATORS FOR EVERY
CLAIM IN AND IN WHAT YOU'VE
TALKED ABOUT THEIR CANDY KIND OF
A BIFURCATED SYSTEM LORDS
SERIOUS ALLEGATIONS BINGO
EXTERNAL. BECAUSE THE REALITY IS
WHAT WHAT NO ONE HAS REALLY
TALKED ABOUT IN ALL THESE
HEARINGS WHATEVER WE DO. IS AT
PUBLIC EXPENSE.
WHAT EVER INFRASTRUCTURE WE
BUILD IS AT PUBLIC EXPENSE
BECAUSE WE'RE A PUBLIC ENTITY SO
I THINK WE HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY
ALSO TO BE MINDFUL OF THAT? AND
MAKE SURE THAT E ARE RESERVING
THE MORE EXPENSIVE IF YOU WILL
STRUCTURE OF THE EXTERNAL
INVESTIGATIONS BY THOSE PEOPLE
WHO ARE UNDER UNDER THE LAW.
ONLY. THOSE ELIGIBLE TO CONDUCT
THEM BUT THEY ARE RESERVED FOR
THE SERIOUS ALLEGATIONS THAT IT
IS IS DEEMED APPROPRIATE FOR AN
EXTERNAL INVESTIGATOR AND THAT
AND THAT WE MAKE SURE OUR
INTERNAL SYSTEM.
IS ROLLED BUS ON THE
INVESTIGATORS ARE WELL TRAINED
AND THAT WE HAVE THE LOOP BACK
TO WE MAKE SURE THAT WE TELL
PEOPLE THE OUTCOME OF THOSE
INVESTIGATIONS WE'VE GOT TO BE
MINDFUL OF ALL THAT.
I'M I DON'T WANNA VOLUNTEER FOR
EXTRA WORK BUT I DO WANT TO GO
BACK TO.
SOME TO ME MENTIONED ABOUT
MEDIATION.
WHEN THERE ARE ALLEGATIONS OF.
WRONGDOING THAT AREN'T
VIOLATIONS OF LAW OR EVEN
NECESSARILY A POLICY. MEDIATION
CAN BE VERY EFFECTIVE WE HAD DF
EACH HAVE A TEAM OF MEDIATORS
AND UPON THE INVITATION OF AN
EMPLOYER EVEN IF THERE'S NO
COMPLAINT WE CAN ACTUALLY GO IN
AND WE DO. I'M AND TRY AND
RESOLVE THE DISPUTE AND SO I
JUST WANT TO. PUT THAT OUT THERE
INTO THE WORLD AND FOR YOU ALL
IN PARTICULAR THAT THAT IS.
THAT'S A RESOURCE THAT THE
STATE ALREADY HOUSE. AND WHAT
THAT APPLY IN THIS SCENARIO WHEN
YOU HAVE A A NON EMPLOYEE EITHER
A VOLUNTEER AN INTERN. I'M A
MEMBER OF THE EXTERNAL COMMUNITY
THAT THAT THE NATURE OF THEIR
WORK BRINGS THEM. INTO THESE
HALLOWED HALLS AND IN DEALING
WITH BOTH LEGISLATE TOWARDS AND
STAFF. VOLUNTEERS INTERNS ARE
EXPLICITLY PROTECTED FROM
SEXUALABOUT MEMBERS OF THE THIRD
HOUSE
WHO BY NATURE OF THEIR WORK
ENGAGE WITH US ON A DAILY BASIS
YET SO THE IT INSTITUTIONALLY
FROM A LIABILITY PERSPECTIVE THE
INSTITUTION HAS A POTENTIAL
LIABILITY OF SOMEONE WHO WORKS
HERE EXPERIENCES HARASSMENT AT
THE HANDS. OF SOMEBODY ELSE AND
YOU KNEW OR SHOULD HAVE KNOWN
ABOUT ABOUT SO IF THERE'S
SOMEBODY HAS A PROBLEM A REPEAT
PLAYER.
WHO'S CONDUCTING HARASSING
ACTIVITY THEN YEAH.
INSTITUTIONALLY THERE IS
POTENTIAL LIABILITY UNDER
EXISTING LAW IF YOU'VE GOT.
SOMEBODY HIT SO.
BOTTOM LINE I WOULD SAY YES IN
THOSE SITUATIONS I WOULD TAKE
THEM SERIOUSLY AND I WOULD TRY
TO FIGURE OUT WAYS TO RESOLVE.
THANK YOU.
TO PIGGY BACK BESIDES RESERVING
OUTSIDE INVESTIGATIONS FOR MORE
SERIOUS.
ACCUSATIONS THE SOMETHING ELSE
THAT ONE OF YOU SAID THAT I
THOUGHT WAS VERY INTERESTING WAS
THAT THE INVESTIGATION THE
INVESTIGATOR SHOULD NEVER BE
SUBORDINATE. TO THE PERSON OR
THE BODY THAT THEY'RE
INVESTIGATING IS ANOTHER REALLY
GOOD WAY OF THINKING ABOUT IT
BECAUSE OF THAT A PERCEPTION OF
BIAS SO THAT'S ANOTHER LANDS
THAT WE CAN. DECIDE TO USE TO
DECIDE WHAT WE SENT OUT FROM
THAT INVESTIGATION AND WHAT WE
DO INTERNALLY. AND THIS IS.
YOU'RE THE FIRST PANEL SO FAR
THAT'S REALLY MADE A VERY STRONG
CASE FOR HAVING AN INTERNAL WAY
OR A PROCESS TO HELP RESOLVE.
JUST YOUR YOUR AVERAGE
WORKPLACE.
CONFLICT TO THAT'S MUCH MORE
STRUCTURED AND MORE FORMAL THAN
MAYBE. MAYBE WHAT WE HAVE I MEAN
IF WE HAVE A WE CERTAINLY
HAVEN'T HAD IT PRESENTED TO US
IN ANY OF THIS AS A WAY TO HELP.
ACTORS THAT PRESSURE VALVE
BEFORE THINGS ESCALATE.
TO LEGAL CLAIMS.
AND I I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING
THAT I WOULD LIKE TO CERTAINLY
ASK STAFF TO. YOU KNOW TO.
LOOK INTO AND AND AND YOU KNOW
BRING BACK TO US I'M SO THANK
YOU FOR THAT.
MS WALDRON.
THE DEATH OF.
THANK YOU MADAM CHAIR.
.
WE TOUCHED A LITTLE BIT ON. THE
VICTIM.
WHO IS KINDA LEFT IN THE DARK
AND YOU KNOW THE HOPE IS THAT
THEY WOULD GET SOME INFORMATION
ON THE RESOLUTION?
ESPECIALLY IF IT WAS A
SUBSTANTIATED.
RESULT.
BUT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE'VE
SEEN HERE THAT JUST MADE IT SO
MUCH MORE. YOU KNOW EGREGIOUS IS
THE FACT THAT YOU KNOW VICTIMS
WERE COMPLETELY LEFT IN THE
DARK.
IT AS THE WHOLE PROCESS WENT
THROUGH NOT EVEN KNOWING IF
ANYONE WAS LOOKING AT IT NOT
GETTING ANY UPDATES. FROM YOU
KNOW HOW MUCH CAN THE VICTIM
NALLE I MEAN THERE IT TAKES A
LOT TO COME FORTH IT TAKES A
LOT.
YOU KNOW THEY REALLY STEP OUT
AND FEEL LIKE ALL MY GOSH YOU
KNOW THIS IS COULD BE MY CAREER.
BUT THE CONDITIONS THAT THE WORK
AND THERE IS GET TO BE SO BAD
THAT THEY REALLY CAN'T.
YOU KNOW COME TO WORK ANYMORE
SO.
HOW DO WE BALANCE YOU KNOW? WHAT
THE VICTIM CAN KNOW BECAUSE YOU
KNOW WHAT WHAT WE'VE SEEN IS
SOMETIMES THEY'RE MOVED AROUND
OR THIS WHOLE PROCESS COMES TO
WHATEVER THE ENDING IS NO ONE
KNOWS BUT THAT?
SO COLD PERPETRATOR IS STILL
THERE. AND NO ONE KNOWS THAT
THEY PAY A IT GET PAM OFF TO THE
YOU KNOW WHAT HAPPENED.
I'M.
AND THEN.
THE NATURE OF OUR BUSINESS AS
ELECTED OFFICIALS. SEATS OPEN
UP.
MEMBERS COME AND GO YOU KNOW WE
HAD. TERM LIMITS BEFORE WE HAVE
A LONGER TERMS NOW BUT WE STILL
HAVE TURNOVER.
SO THE NEW MEMBER COMES IN THEY
DON'T EVEN KNOW THAT MAYBE THIS
PARTICULAR CIEF OF STAFF OR
LEDGER DIRECTOR. WAS INVOLVED IN
THE HARASSMENT CLAIM.
THAT WHO KNOWS MAYBE WAS
SUBSTANTIATED NO ONE'S SOUL KEPT
UNDER THE DARK SOMETHING YOU
CONTINUE THAT CYCLE.
YEAH I KNOW I I I BELIEVE IN
TRANSPARENCY FOR THE PERSON WHO
BROUGHT THE COMPLAINT AND THE
PERSON THE COMPLAINT WAS BROUGHT
AGAINST THAT. IT TAKES MUCH
LONGER THAN YOU WOULD LIKE IT TO
AND YOU NEED TO BE IN TOUCH WITH
THEM AND LET THEM KNOW YOU KNOW.
HERE'S WHERE IT IS HERE'S WHY IT
TOOK LONGER THAN I THOUGHT.
IF PEOPLE ARE MOVED THEN THEY
SHOULD BE UNDERSTANDING WHY THAT
IS AND AND THEY CERTAINLY
SHOULDN'T.
I'M KIND OF BASIC SEXUAL
HARASSMENT LAW THAT YOU
SHOULDN'T BE MOVING THE. THE
VICTIM.
IT BE IF YOU HAVE TO MOVE
SOMEBODY I REALIZE SOMETIMES
THAT MAY NOT BE POSSIBLE IF
YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT A
LEGISLATOR BUT.
TO THE EXTENT THAT YOU CAN YOU
WANT TO TRY TO PROTECT THEM.
I'M I WOULD SAY THE.
ONE OF THE MOST COMMON MISTAKES
IS WHEN SOMEBODY I I WOULD JUST
WANNA START WITH THE MOMENT THAT
SOMEBODY COMES FORWARD WITH AN
ALLEGATION ONE OF THE MOST
COMMON MISTAKES WE SEE IS THAT
THE PERSON RECEIVING THAT
ALLEGATION WHETHER IT'S AN HR
OFFICIAL. OR A BOSS OR WHOEVER
THE RESPONSES OWN NOW.
THAT SINCE IMMEDIATELY THE
WRONG MESSAGE SO IT JUST IN
TERMS OF TRAINING TO STOP FOR
ACCEPTING COMPLAINTS THEY THANK
YOU I'M SO GLAD YOU BROUGHT THIS
FORWARD. I'M NOW YOU MAY NEED TO
PAUSE AND DECIDE WHETHER OR NOT
IT IS SERIOUS ENOUGH THAT YOU'RE
EVEN GOING TO INVESTIGATE AND SO
YOU CAN SAY.
I NEED TO CONSULT WITH WHOEVER
IS MAKING THIS DECISION AND WILL
BE IN TOUCH WITH YOU TOMORROW OR
BY FRIDAY OR WHENEVER IT IS
DEPENDING OBVIOUSLY ON THE
THING.
IF THE DECISION IS TO MOVE
FORWARD WITH AN INVESTIGATION
THERE'S NO REASON NOT TO TELL.
THE PERSON COMPLAINING THAT WE
ARE MOVING FORWARD IN
DESICCATION YOU WILL BE
CONTACTED BY THE INVESTIGATOR.
WHETHER IT'S OUTSIDE OR INSIDE
AND THEN THE OUTSIDE OR INSIDE
INVESTIGATOR SHOULD BE
CONTACTING THAT PERSON. RIGHT
AWAY SO THEN THEY KNOW WHAT'S
GOING ON IF THEY'RE GOING TO BE
SIGNIFICANT DELAYS AS AMY SAID I
THINK IT'S FAIR TO TELL THEM.
.
WE CAN'T MOVE FORWARD FOR A
LITTLE BIT OF TIME BECAUSE OF
PEOPLE'S SCHEDULES FOR.
WHATEVER.
I'M IF THEY COME IF THE
ALLEGATIONS SUBSTANTIATED.
WHO REALLY IT SHOULD BE GOING
IN PEOPLE'S PERSONAL FILES AND I
DON'T KNOW WHAT RULES?
WHAT SPECIFIC RULES GOVERN THIS
WORKPLACE BUT ANYWHERE ELSE I
WOULD EXPECT THAT IF AN
ALLEGATION OF THAT KINDA
SUBSTANTIATED THAT THERE IS A
RECORD OF IT? ON THAT SOMEONE
WHO'S WORKING WITH THEM IN THE
FUTURE WOULD BE ABLE TO SAY.
NOW THEY'RE ALWAYS SETTLEMENTS
WHERE PART OF THE SETTLEMENT IS
THE AGREEMENT OUGHT TO FIT
ANYTHING AND THE RECORD AND
THAT'S JUST KIND OF A. CASE BY
CASE SCENARIO AND THAT'S NO
DIFFERENT HERE THAN IN ANY
OTHER.
EMPLOYMENT CONTEXT.
AS FAR AS YOU KNOW WE'VE HAD THE
ISSUE OF LEAKING DURING AN
INVESTIGATION AND THEN OF COURSE
IN OUR LINE OF WORK. IT'S IN THE
PRESS.
.
WHICH YOU KNOW THEY SHOULDN'T BE
BREACHES OF PRIVACY BUT WHAT
STEPS CAN BE TAKEN. TO MAKE SURE
THAT ANY REPORTED COMPLAINT ON
HIS HANDLE SECURELY AND
APPROPRIATELY.
YOU KNOW AND IF PEOPLE WITNESSES
ARE BEING QUESTIONED.
FROM.
ARE THEY BOUND TO NOT TO DISCUSS
THE QUESTIONING.
DUE TO LEGAL REASONS YOU KNOW
HOW WOULD THIS EVEN BE DON.
WELL IT DEPENDS I EAN THERE IS.
THERE IS SOME. LAW THAT.
YOU CAN'T TELL PEOPLE NOT TO
DISCUSS THINGS UNLESS THEY ARE
EITHER MANAGEMENT. EMPLOYEE OR
YOU GO THROUGH A PROCESS OF
DETERMINING THAT IT WOULD OUT
THERE SOME EXCEPTIONS TO THE
GENERAL RULE OF. THUMB THAT
EMPLOYEES HAVE A RIGHT TO
DISCUSS THEIR WORKING CONDITIONS
AND THAT. AN INVESTIGATION AND A
COMPLAINT AS PART OF THAT.
SO YOU CAN IN SOME CASES AS
PEOPLE NOT TO DISCUSS IT
CERTAINLY CAN ASK ANYBODY IN
MANAGEMENT NOT TO. THE REALITY
IS THAT PEOPLE DO.
THAT THIS IS IT IMPACTING THEIR
LIVES IN A VERY BIG WAY AND
IT'S.
IT'S OFTEN JUST TOO DIFFICULT
FOR PEOPLE TO NOT TALK AND.
THEN YOU HAVE TO MANAGE IT I I
WISH THAT. THERE WAS A WAY TO
MANAGE IT. THAT HAD MORE
TRANSPARENCY BUT THERE ARE
PRIVACY RIGHTS AND SO THEN
YOU'RE OFF AND STUFF KNOWING
SOMETHING THAT MIGHT MAKE THE
SITUATION BETTER AND YET HAVING
TO PROTECT SOMEBODY'S PRIVACY
AND NOT REVEALING THAT.
WHICH WHICH IS A REALLY
DIFFICULT SITUATION TO BE IN.
MY LAST QUESTION.
THE.
ISN'T INVESTIGATOR. TOM HOW DO
THEY ASSESS THEMSELVES FOR BIAS.
YOU KNOW DO YOU HAVE
RECOMMENDATIONS ON HOW TO
CONDUCT THE ASSESSMENTS.
WELL THE FIRST PART OF THE
TRAINING THAT WE DO WHEN WE HAVE
AN INSTITUTE TO TRAIN PEOPLE AT
THE SENSATION WORKPLACE
INVESTIGATORS IS BIAS.
AND BIAS.
NOT JUST IN TERMS OF PEOPLE MAY
HAVE A BIAS AGAINST A CERTAIN
GROUP I MEAN WE THINK ABOUT THAT
KIND OF BIAS BUT WERE ALL
IMPACTED BY OTHER PEOPLE'S
OPINIONS. I ALWAYS KNOW EXACTLY
WHAT MY CLIENT THINGS BECAUSE
THEY ARE SUBCONSCIOUSLY TRYING
TO BIAS ME FROM THE BEGINNING SO
THAT I WILL AGREE WITH THEIR
POINT OF VIEW. AND SO WHAT I'VE
LEARNED TO DO IS TO SAY I
UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU THINK. I
MIGHT AGREE WITH IT.
BUT IF BUT IF YOU'RE NOT GONNA
BE HAPPY IF I DON'T AGREE THEY
DON'T HIRE ME BECAUSE I MIGHT
NOT AGREE WITH IT. AND SO I TRY
TO PUT IT ON THE TABLE.
AND THAT FREE IT MAKES ME FEEL
FREER TO JUST MAKE A FINDING
THAT IS THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT MY
CLIENT. THINGS WOULD BE THE
RIGHT FINDING AND.
YOU KNOW I THINK WE HAVE TO KEEP
TALKING ABOUT IT YOU HAVE TO
HAVE PEOPLE. CHECK YOUR WORK
AND.
NOT JUST DO THINGS IN A VACUUM I
HAVE SOMEBODY ELSE IN MY OFFICE
YOU KNOW AT LEAST TWO PEOPLE ARE
READING EVERY REPORTS SO THAT.
WAIT A MINUTE THERE'S A FACT
THERE THAT YOU DIDN'T REALLY
CONSIDERING. THAT THIS IS REALLY
IMPORTANT WORK AND YOU CAN'T
JUST GO WITH YOUR GUT YOU'VE GOT
A.
REASON THINGS OUT AND THAT THAT
MEANS WELL TRAINED
INVESTIGATORS.
THE ONLY THING I WOULD ADD TO
THAT IS THAT THE CLEAREST.
.
WHO THIS SITUATION AT LEAST A
PERCEPTION OF BIAS IS IF THE
PERSON CONDUCTING THE
INVESTIGATION IS KNOWN TO BE
FRIENDS? WITH THE PEOPLE
INVOLVED ONE OF THE OTHER.
AND IN MOST WORKPLACES MANY
PEOPLE DO YOU KNOW THAT. I AM
AND THAT'S AN EASY ONE EFFECTS
YOU JUST DON'T LET THEM
INVESTIGATE.
THE OEO OFFICE OR WHOEVER IT IS
IS JUST REMOVED FROM THAT. CASE.
YEAH.
APOLOGISTS SECTION A QUESTION I
JUST WANTED TO FOR THE COMMITTEE
ELABORATE ON WHAT YOU'RE TALKING
ABOUT HAVING SOME MORE PEOPLE
CAN RELIEVE THEIR PRESSURE OR
PRESSURE VALVE OR WHAT NOT. I I
KNOW ALL MY EXPERIENCE COMES OUT
THE LABOR MOVEMENT BUT THAT'S
WHAT I DID FOR TWENTY YEARS AND
I WAS A MEMBER FOR THIRTY YEARS.
BUT ALL OF OUR WORK PLACES THAT
HAD STEWARDS AND THAT WAS LIKE
THE FRONTLINE OF DEFENSE THOSE
WERE THE WORK PLACES WE HAD THE
FEWEST. COMPLAINTS OR GRIEVANCES
BECAUSE THE WORKER AT THE MEMBER
HAD SOMEONE THEY CAN GO TO THE
STEWARD WAS TRAINED TO SAY IS IT
A GRIPE OR GRIEVANCE BUT THE FOR
THE PERSON FOR FELT HEARD WHICH
IS WHAT MOST PEOPLE WANT IS THEY
WANT TO FEEL HEARD. I DON'T KNOW
HOW WE WOULD CREATE SOMETHING
LIKE THAT IN THE STRUCTURE THAT
WE WORK IN BUT WE REALLY DO HAVE
TO FIND A WAY TO MAKE SURE
PEOPLE CAN BLOW OFF A LITTLE
STEAM. FEEL SAFE ABOUT IT AND I
THINK IT WOULD SAVE US A LOT OF
TROUBLE GOING FORWARD BECAUSE.
MOST PEOPLE ARE GENERALLY HAPPY
WHO HAVE NOT BEEN HARASSED OR
ASSAULTED WE'LL HAVE
FRUSTRATIONS AT WORK AND I THINK
IF WE CAN FIND A WAY TO DO THAT
WE MIGHT REALLY GET TO A BETTER
PLACE TO WORK. SAYS ONE THAT OUT
THERE YEAH I'M SORRY THE POST
OFFICE HAS A VERY GOOD MEDIATION
PROGRAM PER IO COMPLAINTS CALLED
REDRESS THAT'S BEEN GOING ON FOR
AWHILE AND. AND THERE'S A
PROFESSIONAL ORGANIZATION OF
MEDIATORS I THINK SENSATION
CONFLICT RESOLUTION AC ARE
MAYBE.
THAT HAS A LOT OF INFORMATION
ABOUT INTERNAL PROGRAMS FOR
MEDIATING DISPUTES THAT.
IT SEEMS LIKE A PLACE THAT
PEOPLE COULD GO THAT DOESN'T
FEEL A SERIOUS IS GOING TO HUMAN
RESOURCES ARE GOING TO RULE
SWEAR IT REALLY FEELS LIKE
YOU'RE GOING THERE TO FILE A
COMPLAINT. TO A PLACE THAT YOU
CAN GO LIKE YOU SAID THAT'S A
LITTLE BIT MORE. KIND OF PEER TO
PEER IN A WAY I RATHER THAN.
SOUNDING LIKE YOU'RE THERE TO
YOU KNOW FILE SOMETHING FORMAL.
.
TWO QUESTIONS BEFORE I MOVE ON
TO MY COLLEAGUES WHO'VE BEEN
WAITING PATIENTLY. ON ONE IS
YOU.
YOU SAID SOMETHING REALLY VERY
INTERESTING ABOUT YOU KNOW WHAT
WE'VE HEARD I POINTING AT BOTH
OF YOU. ABOUT HOW THERE ARE FEW
FALSE COMPLAINTS MEANING THAT
THERE ARE VERY FEW TIMES PEOPLE
ARE MAKING UP THE FACTS. BUT
WHAT DOES HAPPEN IS THE
MOTIVATIONS MAYBE SOMEONE UP ON
THAT IS PUTTING ON TO AN EVENT
IS DIFFERENT THE MOTIVATION
THERE PUTTING ON TO THE
PERPETRATOR IS DIFFERENT THAN
WHAT THE PERPETRATOR. PERCEIVES
OR THE REASON WHY THEY WERE
DEMOTED IS DIFFERENT THAN THE
REASON THEY SUSPECT WHICH IS
SORT OF THE COMMON ONE THAT WE
SEE A LOT OF YOUR.
ORGANIZATIONS.
AND I'M WONDERING IF A GOOD
INVESTIGATION OPINES ON THAT
BECAUSE THAT THEN IF IF MOST OF
WHAT THE FACTS THAT YOU'RE
GATHERING OR NOT THAT IN DISPUTE
EVERYONE SAYS WE WERE THERE AT
THIS THIS TIME AND. THIS HAPPEN
IT'S JUST I MEANT THIS I DIDN'T
MEAN THAT. SO DOES THE
INVESTIGATION ALSO LOOK INTO
THAT BECAUSE IF NOT THEN HOW IS
ANYBODY READING THE
INVESTIGATION TO HAVE ANY IDEA.
ABOUT REALLY WHETHER SOMEONE WAS
TRYING TO SEDUCE OR JUST HAVING
A DRINK FOR INSTANCE WHICH IS
OFTEN THE CRUX OF A SEXUAL
HARASSMENT. ISSUE.
SURE I MEAN TO THE EXTENT THAT
YOU CAN YOU DON'T WANT TO GO TOO
FAR.
BUT IF YOU HAVE THIS SITUATION
YOU JUST GAVE US A SAMPLE OF A
DEMOTION LET'S SAY IN.
THAT THE INVESTIGATOR MIGHT FIND
THAT IT'S IT'S MORE REASONABLE
TO FIND THAT THE DEMOTION HAPPEN
BECAUSE OF X. Y. AND Z. THEN IT
WAS BASED ON GENDER. DUE TO TE
FACT THAT NEAR THERE WERE THESE
DEFICIENCIES IN ISSUES IN.
AND SO SIMILARLY YEAH I MEAN THE
MEANING OF ASKING SOMEBODY FOR A
DRINK.
THEN BASED ON THE CREDIBILITY OF
WHAT THEY SAID YOU'D BE MAKING A
FINDING THAT IT WAS MORE OR LESS
CREDIBLE THAT THEY DID OR DIDN'T
HAVE AN ULTERIOR MOTIVE.
FROM AN INVESTIGATION SOME POINT
I WANT TO KNOW. IF THE
ALLEGATIONS UNSUBSTANTIATED
WHETHER THERE IS NONE THE LESS A
GOOD FAITH. BELIEF THAT WIPED
THE THE PERSON MAKING THE
COMPLAINT BELIEVE HAPPENED.
WAS TRUE EVEN IF I ACTUALLY IT
WASN'T TRUE. I'M BECAUSE IF
THERE ISN'T A GOOD FAITH REASON
WHY SOMEBODY MIGHT HAVE
PERCEIVED ABOUT THAT ALSO
PROVIDES AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THE
EMPLOYER. TO TAKE CORRECTIVE
ACTION EVEN IN THE ABSENCE OF
ANY WRONG DOING YOU CAN SAY HEY
I NEED YOU TO KNOW THAT THIS WAS
PERCEIVED IT THIS WAY. ARM AND
YOU CAN KIND OF INTERVENE IN A
NON DISCIPLINARY WAY TO CORRECT.
IMPRESSIONS.
AND THEN MY SECOND QUESTION ALSO
BASED ON SOMETHING YOU SAID WE
WE'VE HAD A DISCUSSION KIND OF.
INTERNALLY ABOUT.
SUPERVISORS AND PEOPLE WHO ARE
SUPPOSED TO BE DIRECT ON SORT OF
NOT LEGAL TERM OF MANDATORY
REPORTER BUT THAT WE'RE
EXPECTED.
AS MEMBERS FOR INSTANCE OF AN
EMPLOYEE TELLS US ABOUT A
SITUATION THAT WE'RE EXPECTED TO
GO AND. MAKE A REPORT ABOUT IT
BUT YOU TALKED ABOUT HOW
IMPORTANT IS TO HAVE THERIGHT
KIND OF RESPONSE WHEN THAT
PERSON FIRST MAKES EYE CONTACT
WITH YOU. SO ARE THEIR BEST
PRACTICES OUT THERE THAT WE CAN
LOOK AT FOR HOW TO TRAIN OUR
SUPERVISORS AND ARE. UNDER OUR
TERMS MANDATORY REPORTERS OF HOW
TO UNDERSTAND. THE BEST WAY TO
ENCOURAGE SOMEONE TO COME
FORWARD TO RECOGNIZE THAT THEY
MIGHT BE IN TRAUMA OR MIGHT BE
FRIGHTENED YOU KNOW WHERE DO WE
LOOK TO TO TO TRAIN THOSE
PEOPLE.
THAT'S OFTEN PART OF THE AB
EIGHTEEN TWENTY FIVE TRAINING.
THAT I'VE SEEN IN THAT I'VE
DONE IS IS SOMETIMES EVEN ROLE
PLAYING. AS A SUPERVISOR YOU
DON'T HAVE TO INVESTIGATE BUT
YOU DO HAVE TO ACCEPT A
COMPLAINT SO HERE'S WHAT YOU
WOULD DO AND HERE'S HERE'S YOU'D
BRING IT TO AND IF YOU CAN'T
HANDLE IT YOURSELF. HERE'S WHO
YOU'D WALK THIS PERSON TOO SO
THAT. BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE REALLY
DON'T HAVE THE SKILLS TO DO THIS
AND IF THEY DON'T THEY SHOULD
GET IT RIGHT AWAY TO THE PERSON
WHO DOES INSTEAD OF FUMBLING.
THERE ARE TRAININGS THE EOC HAS
ROLLED OUT VERY RECENTLY A
RESPECTFUL WORKPLACES TRAINING
THAT COMES OUT OF THEIR YEAR
LONG. SELECTS TASK FORCE ON.
PRESSMAN AND THE WORKPLACE.
WORK AND THIS RESPECTFUL
WORKPLACE TRAINING FOCUSES ON
EXACTLY WHAT YOU JUST DESCRIBED
IT'S NOT EVEN REALLY FOCUSED ON
LEGAL STANDARDS.
IT'S REALLY LIKE WHAT ONE OF
THE BEST PRACTICES FROM A TO Z.
IN DEALING WITH A COMPLAINT.
SOME MEMORY AS.
THANK YOU MADAM CHAIR.
IN THE RIGHT TO SUE LETTER THE
TO GIVE TO AN EMPLOYEE.
IF THEY SAY WE DON'T NEED YOU TO
INVESTIGATE JUST GIVE ME MY
RIGHT TO SUE LETTER THEY THEN
HAVE HOW LONG TO FILE THEIR
LAWSUIT ONE YEAR.
AND HOW OFTEN DOES IT HAPPEN
THAT THEY COME TO YOU AND THEY
SAY I DON'T WANT YOU TO DO
ANYTHING I JUST WANT YOU TO GIVE
ME. THE RIGHT TO SUE LETTER AND
A MAJORITY OF CASES.
AND THE THE THE THE THE.
BUDGET THE DFG AGE HAS TO
INVESTIGATE.
WOULD IT BE SUFFICIENT OF MOST
OF THOSE PEOPLE SAID WE WANT YOU
TO INVESTIGATE NO.
THAT IS AN ISSUE.
DTH OFTENTIMES.
DOESN'T HAVE THE FUNDS TO REALLY
DO COMPLETE INVESTIGATIONS.
RIGHT.
IT IS. AS I SAID HERE IT IS MY
GOAL THAT OUR INVESTIGATIONS ARE
THOROUGH AND COMPLETE AND THEY
MUST BE COMPLETED WITHIN ONE
YEAR UNLIKE OUR FEDERAL
COUNTERPART THE EOC.
.
BUT OUR BUDGET IS BASED ON THE
COMPLAINTS THAT WE ACTUALLY
INVESTIGATE AS OPPOSED TO THE
COMPLAINTS THAT WE ISSUE THE
RIGHT TO SUE FOR SO TO THE
EXTENT THOSE CO OP.
THAT DOES CREATE STOPPING AND
WORKLOAD PROBLEMS FOR US YES.
ONE OF THE COMMENTS THAT YOU
MADE EARLIER.
YOU YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT DUE
PROCESS AND HOW. WE.
FOR LACK OF A BETTER PHRASE WE
JUMP TO THE GODDESSES.
EVERYBODY'S ENTITLED TO PROCESS
AND YOU SAID DUE PROCESS IS NOT
A LEGAL REQUIREMENT.
LET ME LET ME CLARIFY. ANY
WORKPLACE THE FAMOUS LINE IS
SOMEBODY.
IF THERE'S NOT A COLLECTIVE
BARGAINING AGREEMENT RIGHT A
UNION CONTRACT. THE FAMOUS LINE
IS AN EMPLOYER IS ALLOWED TO
MAKE A GOOD DECISION A BAD
DECISION OR IS ALLOWED TO HAVE A
GOOD REASON ABOUT REASON OR NO
REASON AT ALL FOR TAKING ACTION
AGAINST AN EMPLOYEE. SO LONG AS
THE REASON IS NOT
DISCRIMINATORY.
IN PRACTICE I DON'T REALLY THINK
THAT'S TRUE I THINK THAT IF YOU
HAVE LITERALLY NO REASON FOR
DEMOTING AN EMPLOYEE YOU'RE
GONNA GET A COMPLAINT AND SOME
FINDER OF FACT IS GOING TO
WONDER WHY YOU DID THAT. BUT THE
REALITY IS.
THE EMPLOYER IS ALLOWED TO TAKE
ACTION AGAINST EMPLOYEES WITHOUT
ANY KIND OF PROCESS. WHETHER OR
NOT IT IS WISE TO DO SO. IT IS
NOT A COURT PROCEEDING.
AND SO WHEN YOU'RE DEALING WITH
AN AN ALLEGATION OF WRONGDOING
IN A WORKPLACE THERE ARE
EMPLOYERS OUT THERE WHO ARE
LIKE.
ALLEGATION YOU'RE OUT.
I DON'T THINK THAT'S WISE I
DON'T THINK THAT'S A GOOD
EMPLOYMENT PRACTICE BUT IT'S NOT
UNLAWFUL. AND SO I JUST WANT TO
EVERYONE TO BE ALERT TO THE FACT
THAT IF YOU CREATE A SYSTEM. OF.
DUE PROCESS. WHATEVER THAT
MEANS FOR THE INSTITUTION. THAT
IS NOT.
WHAT THE LAW REQUIRES IT MIGHT
BE A BEST PRACTICE RECOMMENDED
PRACTICE?
BUT IT'S NOT THAT SOMEONE CAN
THEN COME AND SAY.
I DIDN'T GET TO.
CONFRONTED MY ACCUSER PUBLICLY.
WELL YOU DON'T GET TO CONFRONT
YOUR CONFUSED ACCUSER PUBLICLY
THAT'S THAT'S JUST THE WAY THAT
IT IS. SO THAT WE'RE CLEAR.
UNLESS THERE IS DISCRIMINATION.
AND OBVIOUSLY THAT WOULD BE ONE
OF THE ALLEGATIONS THEN YOU ARE
ENTITLED TO DUE PROCESS OR
UNLESS THERE IS RETALIATION.
RIGHT.
NO IF YOU'RE ACCUSED OF
WRONGDOING THERE IS NOTHING THAT
THE LAW SAYS THAT YOU ARE
ENTITLED TO IN A WORKPLACE.
UNLESS THERE'S A UNION CONTRACT
THAT GIVES YOU CERTAIN.
GRIEVANCE RIGHTS OR WHATEVER BUT
IF YOU'RE ACCUSED OF WRONGDOING
THE EMPLOYER CAN MAKE A DECISION
BASED ON ANYTHING THE EMPLOYER
WANTS TO DO.
NOW YOU MIGHT THEN FILE A
COMPLAINT AGAINST YOUR EMPLOYER
WHO HASN'T GONE THROUGH CERTAIN
STEPS TO MAKE SURE THAT THE
ALLEGATION IS WELL FOUNDED BUT
NO YOU HAVE NO.
DEPENDENT RIGHT TO ANY PROCESS.
UNLESS THE JOB WAS A RIGHT AS
OPPOSED TO PRIVILEGE IF YOU'RE
NOT WILLING CHLOE WHAT YOU'RE
SAYING IS TRUE DIRECT AND
THERE'S A QUESTION OF WHEN IT
BECOMES A RIGHT AS OPPOSED TO
PRIVILEGE.
RIGHT.
I'M JOB ITSELF YOU CAN'T TAKE A
RIDE AWAY FROM AN INDIVIDUAL
UNLESS YOU GIVE THEM DUE
PROCESS.
RIGHT BUT A JOB LIKE AN OUT WILL
EMPLOYEE DOES NOT HAVE A RIGHT
TO THAT SHOP JUST GENERALLY
SPEAKING YOU CAN'T TAKE A RIGHT
AWAY FROM SOMEONE UNLESS YOU
GIVE THEM DUE PROCESS. SO THE
QUESTION THEN BECOMES WHETHER IT
WAS A RIGHT TO HAVE A JOB OR
PRIVILEGE TO HAVE THAT JOB.
I THINK THAT IS ONE WAY OF
FRAMING IT YES BUT I'M NOT AWARE
OF A JOB THAT IS A RIGHT AND
THEN I WILL HAVE A CONTRACT.
CERTAINLY YOU DOUBT BUT WELL A
CONTRACTUAL AGREEMENT YEAH YOU
WOULD HAVE TO FOLLOW WHATEVER
PROCEDURES ARE IN THE CONTRACT
AND THAT'S WHAT THE COLLECTIVE
BARGAINING AGREEMENTS RIGHT.
AFTER. ABSENT AN AGREEMENT
RIGHT.
NO ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WAS
THE COMMENT THAT WAS MADE IT
WAS.
OUT ON THE INVESTIGATIONS YOU
HAVE TO DECIDE WHEN IT'S WORTH
DISRUPTING. THE THE THE WORK
ENVIRONMENT WHAT DID YOU MEAN BY
THAT.
WELL AN INVESTIGATION IS GOING
TO BE DISRUPTIVE. AND SO.
WHAT WHAT IS THE BAR OF THE
COMPLAINT?
FOR A DETERMINATION TO BE MADE
THAT THIS COMPLAINT NEEDS TO BE
INVESTIGATED AS I SAID I USUALLY
ADVISE. IF IT WOULD BE A SERIOUS
VIOLATION OF YOUR RULES AND YOU
DON'T HAVE ENOUGH INFORMATION TO
KNOW WHETHER IT HAPPENED THEN
YOU INVESTIGATE.
BUT LET'S SAY SOMEBODY COMES
WITH A NON SERIOUS.
AS LIKE YOU KNOW ONE OF THAT
FIRST LEVEL OF COMPLAINT.
YOU LOOK LOVELY TODAY I.
THE PERSON BROUGHT TH COMPLAINT
SAID I PERCEIVE THAT TO BE
SEXUAL HARASSMENT.
FROM MY EXPERIENCE MORE AND MORE
ESPECIALLY PUBLIC EMPLOYERS ARE
INVESTIGATING THOSE COMPLAINTS.
AND AND THERE IS A COST THERE'S
OF AS YOU KNOW IT WAS POINTED
OUT THERE'S A COST TO THE
TAXPAYER AND THERE'S A COST TO
THE WORK ENVIRONMENT. IN TERMS
OF RELATIONSHIPS BETWEEN PEOPLE
LOSS OF PRODUCTIVITY AT CETERA.
AND.
.
SOMETIMES I THINK WE'RE GOING TO
A POINT WHERE WE'RE
INVESTIGATING EVERYTHING. EVEN
WHEN IT IS AT SUCH A LOW LEVEL
THAT IT WOULDN'T BE A SERIOUS
VIOLATION AND ISN'T THERE MIGHT
THERE NOT BE ANOTHER WAY OF
HANDLING IT THAT WOULD BE.
I AM A MORE POSITIVE WAY OF
HANDLING THAT PARTICULAR
COMPLAINT I MEAN OBVIOUSLY A
CERTAIN LEVEL YOU HAVE TO DO
THAT.
AND CLEARLY WE'RE LOOKING FOR
THAT WAY TO HANDLE THOSE
COMPLAINTS.
THROUGH YOUR EXPERIENCE.
WHAT WOULD YOU RECOMMEND THEM?
IF WE'RE LOOKING TO DETERMINE
WHICH OF THE CASES ARE
INVESTIGATED.
THERE HAS TO BE A STANDARD.
WELL I THINK THAT YOU WOULD LOOK
TO LET'S SAY THAT IS THE. THE
ALLEGATION IS HE SAID I LOOK
LOVELY TODAY.
WOULD THAT BE CONSIDERED A
SERIOUS VIOLATION OF YOUR RULES
IF THE ANSWER IS NO AND WOULD
YOU WOULD YOU TAKE DISCIPLINARY
ACTION AGAINST SOMEBODY FOR
SAYING THAT.
AND I MEAN OBVIOUSLY HAVE TO DO
AN INTAKE WAS DID IT HAPPEN MORE
THAN ONCE WAS THERE ANY
PARTICULAR REASON YOU FOUND THAT
SO OFFENSIVE BUT. IF THAT'S
REALLY IT.
THEN. THAT CASE MIGHT BE ONE
WHERE YOU SAY. THAT WOULD
VIOLATE OUR RULES BUT I CAN TELL
YOU WERE OFFENDED CAN WE GET YOU
TO TALK TO GATHER TALK ABOUT
THAT CAN WE TRY TO UNDERSTAND
HOW TO WORK TOGETHER BETTER SO
WE'RE NOT STEPPING ON EACH
OTHER'S TOES BUT. THIS IS NOT
ONE THAT WOULD GO INTO THE. WE
NEED TO INVESTIGATE AND TAKE
ACTION BASKET.
I THINK THAT BECAUSE. WE'VE
TALKED ABOUT THE ZERO TOLERANCE
BEFORE. AND EVEN WITH ZERO
TOLERANCE.
WE'RE IN THIS SITUATION NOW.
THE DISCUSSION HAS BEEN MADE
THAT WE NOW NEED THAT WE NEED A
CULTURE CHANGE. IT HERE THERE
IT'S NOT THE ONLY WORK
ENVIRONMENT THAT NEEDS A CULTURE
CHANGE.
THERE'S A CULTURE CHANGE NEEDED
IN SO MANY DIFFERENT PLACES.
IN THIS CULTURE CHANGE.
IS THERE THE THE DANGER OF.
LETTING THE PENDULUM SWING TOO
FAR TO THE OPPOSITE END.
I MEAN I THINK THERE'S. I I
WOULD NEED TO UNDERSTAND
SPECIFICALLY WHAT YOUR CONCERN
IS I MEAN I THINK THERE'S A
DANGER AS I SAID IN.
.
BEING TOO HARSH
WITH PEOPLE.
BUT I DON'T THINK GETTING EVERY
COMPLAINT RIGHT BUT I DON'T
THINK THERE'S A DANGER IN.
DEVELOPING A WORKPLACE THAT HAS
RESPECT AS IT'S YOU KNOW UP
BOTTOM LINE IN EVERY SITUATION
AND THAT PEOPLE ARE. ALWAYS
GOING TO SPEAK TO THAT END AND
HAVE THAT IS HOW THEY THINK
PEOPLE SHOULD BE TREATING EACH
OTHER SO.
ZERO TOLERANCE FOR DISRESPECT.
YOU KNOW AND MEANING THAT PEOPLE
ARE GOING TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT
THAT I DON'T THINK THAT SWINGING
TOO FAR BUT IT'S ZERO TOLERANCE
MEANS.
YOU KNOW WHAT YOU SAID WAS A
MICROGRAPHS YOU SHOULD BE FIRED
FOR IT THEN YEAH THAT WOULD BE
SWINGING TOO FAR.
IN MY LAST QUESTION IS.
WHEN WE HIRE AN OUTSIDE FIRM TO
DO THE INVESTIGATION WE TALK
ABOUT ATTORNEY CLIENT PRIVILEGE.
WHO'S THE CLIENT THAT HAS THE
PRIVILEGE BOTH THE LEGISLATURE
THERE OR THAT THE SENATOR THE
ASSEMBLY WHOEVER.
WHATEVER ENTITY IS HIRING THAT
AS OPPOSED TO THE VICTIM WHO'S
WHO IS.
GIVING THE INFORMATION.
WELL THE THE VICTIM. ISN'T IT
HOWARD TO FIX THE SITUATION
INVESTIGATED. AND I MEAN THAT IT
ISN'T A BALANCE SITUATION IT'S
IT'S THE LEGISLATURE THAT HAS TO
BE RESPONDING. AND DOING THE
INVESTIGATION OF THE LEGISLATURE
THAT HAS THE ACCESS TO THAT THE
INFORMATION TO DO THAT AND CAN
EMPOWER SOMEBODY.
TO DO THAT THEY CAN OPEN THE
DOORS AND SAY HERE ARE FILES
INVESTIGATOR.
FIND WHAT YOU NEED TO.
THANK YOU SO MUCH THANK YOU.
THANK YOU. THANK YOU.
SENATOR MORLOCK.
I'M SURE. MR KISCH WELCOME BACK
THANK YOU. I FAILED TO ASK YOU A
FOLLOW UP QUESTION.
LAST TIME. AND IT WAS ABOUT
TRANSPARENCY.
AND YOU SAID ALL THE RECORDS ARE
AVAILABLE SO I'M JUST CURIOUS
HAS ANYONE FILED A HARASSMENT.
COMPLAINT ON A. LEGISLATOR WITH
YOUR DEPARTMENT.
I'VE BEEN OUT WHAT TIME FRAME.
FOR ME.
WELL IT SOUNDS LIKE IT'S
HAPPENED QUITE A BIT TO BY THE
WAY YOU'RE ANSWERING IT SO IT'S
LIKE WAS IT LAST WEEK WHEN I
DON'T KNOW I DON'T WANT TO GIVE
THE WRONG IMPRESSION I'M AWARE
OF ONE RIGHT TO SUE.
THAT WAS THAT WAS FILED BUT
I'S THE ONE THAT'S BEEN
REPORTED IN THE PRESS AND I
DON'T HAVE ANY INFORMATION ABOUT
OTHER ONES ALTHOUGH I KNOW THAT
REPORTERS HAVE BEEN ASKING AND
THERE ARE.
THERE HAVE BEEN VERY FEW
SLASHING NINE FOR MANY PERIODS.
WHICH LET ME JUST CLARIFY I
DON'T THINK PEOPLE SHOULD FIND
SURPRISING. BECAUSE WHEN FOLKS
ARE IN POSITIONS.
WHERE REPUTATIONAL HARM? IS A
CORE CONCERN.
POSITIONS WHERE IT'S POSSIBLE
TO GET A MONETARY SETTLEMENT.
YOU'RE NOT DEALING WITH AN
INSOLVENT RESPOND IN A LOT OF
TIMES WHAT WILL HAPPEN IS THAT
SOMEONE WHO EXPERIENCES
SOMETHING WE'LL JUST HIRE A
ATTORNEY AND EVERYTHING WILL BE
HANDLED VERY QUIETLY WITHOUT THE
STATE'S INTERVENTION.
MR KISCH DO YOU HAVE A MODEL.
POLICY ON DEALING WITH SEXUAL
HARASSMENT THAT WE CAN.
TAKE AS A.
TEMPLATE YES AND THAT IS
ATTACHED IT IS NOW ON THE
WEBSITE IT IS OUR.
PLEASE HARASSMENT GUIDE THIS IS
THE MODEL.
HOW TO CONDUCT AN INVESTIGATION
WE HAVE ALSO BEEN WORKING ON OUR
OWN INTERNAL ANTI DISCRIMINATION
POLICY WHICH I THINK IT IS ONLY
FAIR TO ME I MEAN IT IS PUBLIC
IS A PUBLIC DOCUMENT BECAUSE
REPUBLICAN CITY BUT I THINK
IT'S?
FAIR FOR US TO PUT ON THE
WEBSITE AND THAT WILL BE
HAPPENING. PROBABLY WITHIN A
COUPLE DAYS.
OKAY.
MISS.
OPPENHEIMER WELCOME I AM. I TO
APPRECIATE ALL THE.
EXPERIENCE YOU HAVE THAT WAS A
TERM USED EARLIER AND I JUST
WANTED TO.
CAN I GO BACK TO THIS HIGH
SCHOOL STARTING THING YOU KNOW
OR MAYBE OUR OUR OUR.
PERPETRATORS ARE THEY SORT OF
LIKE EVOLVE TO THEY. START BAD
HABITS SOMEWHERE JUST KINDA KEEP
BUILDING THEM LIKE EVER
REPROBATE BEHAVIOR.
I'M TRYING TO THINK OF SAY.
.
AN ALCOHOLIC WHO JUST SOMEHOW I
WAS ABLE TO KEEP IT HIDDEN FROM
EVERYBODY BUT IS STILL. DOING
THINGS OR AN EMBEZZLER WHO JUST
SEEMS TO WORK FOR YOU THINK
SHE'S HERE SHE IS THE MOST
WONDERFUL PERSON. BUT THIS
SLOWLY SIPHONING THINGS ARE.
I'M JUST TRYING TO FIGURE OUT IF
SINCE WE SINCE THE CENTER
MAJORITY MENTION THE NINETY TEN
RULE I'M KIND OF USED TO THAT
EIGHTY TWENTY RULE.
OUT OF THEM.
ARE WE TALKING ABOUT INDIVIDUALS
THAT ARE. MAYBE BULLIES IN HIGH
SCHOOL AND JUST THE OTHER IN THE
WORKPLACE AND.
AND THEY'VE NEVER BEEN
CONFRONTED AND THEY JUST KEEP
GETTING AWAY WITH IT.
AND THEN HERE WE ARE ALL OF A
SUDDEN SOMEONE FINALLY FILES A
COMPLAINT LIKE. ARGUMENTS AND
HARVEY WEINSTEIN AT ALL SAID IT
BLOWS UP IN ITS. ITS MULTIPLES
ARE A PRETTY MADE OFFER FOR
TALKING ABOUT.
DEALING WITH SOMEONE'S MONEY
STARS KIND OF CURIOUS IS ONE
ESERVER.
IS IS IT JUST SOMETHING THAT
STARTS AT AN EARLY AGE IN AND
DEMAND TO HOW DO WE DEAL WITH
IT.
WELL I DO THINK THAT PEOPLE WHO
ARE PERPETRATING VERY SERIOUS
ACTIONS.
THAT. IT IS SOMEBODY WHO HAS
SOME PERSONALITIES THAT YOU KNOW
SOME FOR SOME SERIOUS PROBLEMS
WHO HAS A LOT OF POWER AND THE
FACT IS THAT THERE ARE PEOPLE
HAVE A LOT OF POWER WHO. DO HAVE
SOME SERIOUS PROBLEMS IT'S THEY
DON'T NECESSARILY. AND THEY'RE
NOT NECESSARILY SEPARATE.
I MEAN YET I THINK THAT WE ALSO
WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE
LESS SERIOUS WE TEACH. GENDER
ROLES. FROM A VERY EARLY AGE IN
A WAY THAT.
OFTEN TEACHES PEOPLE TO CROSS
LINES AND SO SURE I MEAN I
THINK.
EDUCATION NOT I WOULD TAKE IT
EVEN EARLIER. I MEAN I. I
REMEMBER BEING AT MY SCHOOLS BY
AND KIDS SCHOOLING HEARING
PEOPLE PUTTING EACH OTHER DOWN
BY SAYING YOU'RE GAY YOU*.
AND EVERY TIME I WOULD STEP IN
AND THEY WOULD SAY MOM YOU HAVE
TO STEP IN EVERY TIME YOU HEAR
THIS ON.
YEAH SORRY I DO AND I'M.
IT'S IT'S ENDEMIC AND.
I WOULD I'D LOVE TO SEE. THAT
CHANGE I THINK THAT COULD MAKE A
BIG DIFFERENCE.
BUT THEN WHEN YOU DO AN
INVESTIGATION DO YOU ALSO DO A
PSYCHOLOGICAL REVIEW NO NOT
QUALIFIED TO DO THAT I MEAN IT'S
IT'S HARD NOT TO WONDER BUT I
DON'T HAVE THE QUALIFICATIONS TO
DIAGNOSE.
WELL THEN WOULD YOU SUBCONTRACT
THAT.
YOU KNOW I DON'T THINK IT'S OUR
PLACE I THINK THAT WE'RE FACT
FINDERS AND REGARDLESS OF THE
PSYCHOLOGY OF IT YOU KNOW THAT
THE FACTS ARE THE FACTS AND.
.
IT'S HARD NOT TO WONDER IN
NOTICE BUT I I THINK THAT'S
OVERSTEPPING.
WELL I COME FROM UP THE COUNTING
BACKGROUND AND SO.
YOU LOOK FOR FRAUD WHEN YOU'RE
DOING AUDITS.
AND SO SO OFTEN.
SOMEONE WILL BE DISCOVERED AND
THEN YOU'LL SIT DOWN WITH THE
PERSON AND THEY'LL SAY WELL YOU
CAN LET ME GO AND ALL SIGN.
I PROMISSORY NOTE I'LL PAY YOU
BACK AND THEN EVERYBODY KEEPS A
QUIET.
AND THEN THEY GO TO ANOTHER
PLAYER AND SLOWLY BUT SURELY
THEY'RE SENDING MONEY TO THE OLD
EMPLOYER BUT IT'S COMING OUT OF
THE POCKET OF. THE NEW EMPLOYER
SO THINGS JUST.
NEVER GET FIXED YOU KNOW IT'S
JUST.
IN IN MISTER KIDS WHO HAD THIS
DISCUSSION BEFORE AND I'M.
JUST.
WONDERING IF MAYBE WE'RE MISSING
A COMPONENT IN IN IN OUR
INVESTIGATION SO I I JUST BRING
THAT UP SO. THANK YOU MADAM
CHAIR.
BY ME MADAM CHAIR DIDN'T DO THAT
SENATOR MORE LOCKED AND I AGREE
WITH YOU I WOULD JUST ADD ONE
COMPONENT TO YOUR ARGUMENT THAT
IS THAT WE CAN'T START IN HIGH
SCHOOL COMING FROM EARLY CARE
AND EDUCATION BACKGROUND.
REMEMBER THE FAMOUS BESTSELLER
EVERYTHING I NEEDED TO KNOW I
LEARNED IN KINDERGARTEN I THINK
WE NEED TO START MUCH EARLIER
BECAUSE I THINK THE KIND OF
WORKPLACE BULLYING BEHAVIOR
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IS FALLS
UNDER THE PARADIGM OF BULLYING
YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. ALMOND
AND.
AS WE HEARD EARLIER NEEDING TO
FIND THE BALANCE IN TERMS OF OF
THE LACK ELECTRIC HAVING THE
POWER TO DECIDE WHO REPRESENTS
THEM.
.
EIGHT BE THE FACT THAT WE CAN'T
LEGISLATE MORALITY.
.
WE HAVE TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO
CREATE A SYSTEM AND A CULTURE
THAT WHAT EVER. CHARACTERISTIC
YOU BRING TO THE WORK SPACE
WHATEVER THAT MAY BE THEY CAN'T
DO PSYCHOLOGICAL TESTING WE
CAN'T REQUIRE PSYCHOLOGICAL
TESTING OUR ACCU TESTING BEFORE
YOU GET A NAME YOUR NAME ON THE
BALLOT.
WHAT WE CAN DO IS CREATE A
CULTURE IN WHICH?
WHAT EVER YOU BRING TO THE SPACE
YOU UNDERSTAND THERE ARE CERTAIN
BEHAVIORS THAT WON'T BE
TOLERATED? AND I THINK THE
CHALLENGE IS SOME OF THE
BULLYING CHARACTERS BECAUSE
WE'VE TALKED ABOUT.
THOSE PEOPLE ARE ATTRACTED TO
POSITIONS OF POWER SO THEY CAN
BULLY.
AND SO I THINK THAT MIGHT BE THE
SETTING IN WHICH WE ARE IN WHICH
IS ALL THE MORE REASON TO CREATE
A CULTURE. IN WHICH THE
INSTITUTION SAYS DON'T CROSS
THIS LINE.
WE APPRECIATE YOUR SUPPORT YOUR
CONSTITUENTS WILL LET YOU. IN
THEY SEE VALUE IN WHAT YOU CAN
BRING TO THEIR DISTRICT HOWEVER
IF YOU CAN BE A PART THIS
INSTITUTION. YOU CAN'T CROSS
THIS LINE WE HAVE A
RESPONSIBILITY TO PROTECT.
THE PUBLIC AND EMPLOYEES BUT I
THINK WE CAN'T START THE
MESSAGING AROUND BULLYING. AND
GENDER APPROPRIATE INTERACTION
TO BEHAVE YOU CAN START EARLY
ENOUGH. WE SEE AS THE EARLY CAN
EDUCATION PROFESSIONAL WE SEE.
CHARACTERISTICS EXHIBITED VERY
YOUNG.
THEY'RE YOUNG WOULD GETS LITTLE
CIRCULAR. HER MITCHELL WHO I AM.
WE NEED TO TRAIN AND AND TEACH
KIDS THAT THEIR BOUNDARIES.
BUT THEN IT'S A DOLL FIGURE.
DIDN'T HAPPEN HUNDREDS ARE GONNA
WHAT'S THE BIG DEAL.
ARE YOU COOL FOR WHY ARE YOU
REACTING THIS WAY YOU CHOSE TO
REACT THAT WAY ALL I WAS DOING
WAS.
BRING YOUR COMPLIMENT OR
WHATEVER IT IS AND AND SO I'M
YOU KNOW AS YOU KNOW WE'RE
SPENDING OUR TIME ON THIS
SUBJECT I'M. TRYING TO YOU KNOW.
DIG INTO DIFFERENT AREAS TRYING
TO FIGURE FIGURE IT ALL OUT BUT.
YOU KNOW WHO WE ARE WHO WE DON'T
HAVE A SOUTHERN.
APPROACH OF GENTLEMEN AND LADIES
AND EVERYONE KNOWS THEIR PLACE
AND EVERYONE IS CUT THE RIGHT
DECORUM. THE WHOLE DIFFERENT I
THINK A LITTLE DIFFERENT WORLD
IF I COULD.
SO I'M JUST BRINGING IT UP.
THAT.
THANK YOU THANKS THAT I WANTED
TO COMMENT ON ARMS ACTUALLY
SOMETHING THAT IS SOMEONE NUMBER
RADIO SAID THAT REALLY GOT ME
THINKING ABOUT THE PENDULUM
SWING TOO FAR AND I'VE HEARD
THIS A LOT SORT OF IN THE.
POPULAR CULTURE IN THE MEDIA
REGARDS TO THIS YOU KNOW WE
DON'T THE PENDULUM HAS SWUNG TOO
FAR. BUT IT IT'S REALLY A GOOD
REMINDER AND WE TALKED ABOUT
THIS WHEN WE HAD OUR. CULTURE
CHANGE PANEL THAT IF YOU'RE
PENDULUM IS A PENDULUM BETWEEN.
LOTS OF PUNISHMENT RULES AND A
LACK OF ACCOUNTABILITY YOU'RE
ALWAYS GOING TO HAVE THAT
PROBLEM BUT IF YOU'RE PENDULUM
THAT YOU'RE FOCUSED ON. IS ON
THE ONE HAND A WORKPLACE WHERE
PEOPLE ARE RESPECTED AND FEEL
SAFE AND EMPLOYEES FEEL
EMPOWERED TO COME FORWARD IF
THEY'RE. BEING TREATED BADLY AND
ON THE OTHER HAND WE'RE PLACE IT
DOESN'T DO THAT THEN YOU'RE
PENDULUM CANCELING TOO FAR
BECAUSE YOU ALWAYS WANT YOUR
PENDULUM TO BE AS FAR AS YOU CAN
ON THE SIDE OF. A WORKPLACE THAT
RESPECTS EVERYBODY'S INDIVIDUAL
SO MORE PEOPLE FEEL THAT THEIR.
GOING TO BE TREATED AS A HUMAN
BEING AND SOMEONE WHO'S
PRODUCTIVE SO IF WE THINK ABOUT
THAT. THAT I THINK THAT HELPS TO
KEEP US CLARIFIED ABOUT WHAT OUR
GOAL REALLY IS HERE IT'S NOT TO
HAVE MORE PUNISHMENT MORE RULES
A MORE TOXIC PLACE TO COME TO
WORK AT THE END OF THE DAY
ALTHOUGH WE MIGHT NEED SOME OF
THAT ALONG THE WAY AND WE NEED.
THAT ACCOUNTABILITY OUR GOAL IS
TO HAVE A PLEASANT PLACE FOR
PEOPLE TO WORK WHERE THEY ARE
RESPECTED AND WHERE THEIR
CONTRIBUTIONS ARE RESPECTED AND
WHERE THEY FEEL SAFE. SO WE CAN
NEVER SWING TOO FAR IN THAT
DIRECTION.
UNLESS THERE'S ANY LAST
QUESTIONS FOR THIS PANEL I WANT
TO THANK YOU THAT WAS EXCELLENT
SUPER HELPFUL. THANK YOU VERY
MUCH AND I'M SURE WE'LL BE IN
TOUCH AND WE HAVE A LAST PANEL.
WHICH I'M SURE WILL BE JUST AS
EXCELLENT I'M AND I'M GOING TO
INVITE UP PATRICIA WEISS MEMBER
OF THE EOC TASK FORCE ON
HARASSMENT IN THE WORKPLACE.
AND FOR NEAR DAVIS THE CO
FOUNDER AND EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR
OF RESTORATIVE JUSTICE FOR
OAKLAND YOUTH.
AND JUST AS I HAD ASKED THE LAST
PANEL PLEASE FEEL FREE TO.
INTRODUCE YOURSELF IN YOUR
ORGANIZATIONS AS YOU SEE FIT AS
YOU MOVE INTO YOUR PRESENTATIONS
THANK YOU
.
OKAY NOW. ON THE BOARD ABOUT
.
IT'S NOT OKAY.
THIS PERSON FOR IT TO GO YEAH.
OKAY.
WELCOME AND I THINK WE'RE
STARTING WITH MS WEISS YES THANK
YOU.
THANK YOU TERRY FRIEDMAN BASED
CHAIR MITCHELL AND MEMBERS OF
THE SUBCOMMITTEE. FOR INVITING
ME TO TESTIFY FIRST OF ALL. AND
FOR YOUR IMPORTANT WORK IN
ESTABLISHING A BICAMERAL PROCESS
TO PREVENT AND ELIMINATE SEXUAL
HARASSMENT. MIGHT. BEEN
FORTUNATE ENOUGH TO BE ABLE TO
SEE SOME OF THE PREVIOUS
TESTIMONY THAT YOU'VE HEARD. AND
READ SOME OF THE MATERIALS THAT
YOU'VE USED IN YOUR PREVIOUS
HEARINGS. BOMB WORK HERE
OBVIOUSLY BECAUSE YOU HAVE A
DESIRE TO IMPROVE.
PREVENT AND ELIMINATE
HARASSMENT IN THE WORKPLACE AND
IN THE PAST. BASED ON THE LAWS
AND THE REQUIREMENTS THAT ARE
IMPOSED ON YOU.
THAT'S GENERALLY BEEN DONE IN
THREE WAYS AND THOSE ARE LEGALLY
COMPLIANT POLICIES AGAINST
HARASSMENT. TRAINING AND
CONDUCTING PROMPT OBJECTIVE AND
THOROUGH INVESTIGATIONS.
BUT I THINK WE ALL KNOW THAT
EMPLOYERS HAVE ACTUALLY. BEEN
DOING A GOOD JOB WITH THAT WITH
THOSE COMPLIANCE EFFORTS. FOR
DECADES LITERALLY FOR DECADES
EMPLOYERS HAVE DONE A GOOD JOB
WITH COMPLIANCE EFFORTS. AND
WE'VE SEEN REALLY NO
IMPROVEMENT.
EVEN THOUGH EMPLOYERS ARE ARE
FAIRLY GOOD AT COMPLIANCE WE'VE
SEEN NO REAL IMPROVEMENT AND THE
NUMBERS OF CHARGES THAT EOC AND
STATE AGENCIES HAVE SEEN. AND
THE COURT CASES HAVE REALLY NOT
CHANGED THROUGH THE DECADES
BOMB.
I BELIEVE.
THAT MOST COMMITTED EMPLOYERS
CAN DO A BETTER JOB.
I BELIEVE THAT EMPLOYERS CAN DO
FAR MORE.
THEN CHECK THE BOX FAR MORE THAN
JUST COMPLIANCE AND I I THINK
THAT'S THAT'S THE APPROACH THAT
YOU ARE TAKING.
.
I AM INFORMED ABOUT THIS
APPROACH MORE THAN COMPLIANCE
MORE THAN CHECK IN THE BOX AND I
BELIEVE THAT EMPLOYERS CAN GO
FAR BEYOND THAT BASED ON MY WORK
WITH THE EOC. AND THE SELECT
TASK FORCE MOM I KNOW THAT YOU
READ THE REPORT IS PART OF THE
MATERIALS FOR THESE HEARINGS.
AND.
HOPEFULLY YOU CAN SEE THAT
THERE'S SO MUCH POTENTIAL BASED
ON THE EIGHTEEN MONTHS OF WORK
THAT WE DID. IN STUDYING THE
ISSUE OF PREVENTION AND
ELIMINATION OF.
WORKPLACE HARASSMENT I BELIEVE
THESE HEARINGS SHOW THAT YOU'RE
ALREADY FAR ALONG IN THE PROCESS
OF ESTABLISHING THE FIRST
ELEMENT THAT THE TASK FORCE
IDENTIFIED AS. THE MOST
IMPORTANT ELEMENT IN THE PROCESS
AND THAT IS LEADERSHIP.
AND I'VE HEARD YOU TALK A LOT
ABOUT LEADERSHIP.
THE FIRST STEP IN CREATING A
HOLISTIC HARASSMENT PREVENTION
PROGRAM IS LEADERSHIP.
THESE HEARINGS HAVE BEEN
CRITICAL I THINK IN
DEMONSTRATING YOUR COMMITMENT TO
THAT. AND I KNOW THAT YOU'VE
TALKED A LOT ABOUT CHANGING THE
CULTURE WHICH IS CERTAINLY AN
IMPORTANT ASPECT OF ESTABLISHING
LEADERSHIP AND I KNOW YOU'VE
HEARD A LOT OF TESTIMONY ABOUT
THAT.
ONE OF THE IDEAS THAT I LIKE TO
THINK ABOUT IN TERMS OF CHANGING
CULTURE IS IT A BASIC MANAGEMENT
PRINCIPLE. AND THAT IS THE
SHADOW OF A LEADER. AND I THINK
THAT YOU PROBABLY ALL KNOW THAT
YOU CAST A SHADOW AS LEADERS.
I'M GONNA SHARE AN EXAMPLE FROM
A DIFFERENT STATE.
OF HOW A SHADOW WAS CAST IN AN
UNFORTUNATE WAY. AND I THINK IT
ILLUSTRATES PERFECTLY WHAT ALL
OF YOU CAN DO AS LEADERS IN YOUR
STATE.
THIS WAS A SITUATION WHERE.
MORE THAN ONE HUNDRED MEMBERS OF
OF.
A LEGISLATIVE BODY AND THEIR
STAFFERS WERE TOGETHER TO
CELEBRATE THE RETIREMENT OF A
STAFFER. AND TWO MEMBERS MADE
REMARKS. AT THE RETIREMENT PARTY
AND IT WAS A DINNER SEATED
DINNER. AND.
THOSE REMARKS WERE
INAPPROPRIATE. THEY WERE
MISOGYNISTIC.AND THEY WERE.
ACTUALLY TARGETED AT INDIVIDUAL
FEMALE LEGISLATE TOWARDS ONE A
SITTING MEMBER OF THE BODY AND
ONE ON THE FORMER AND FORMER
MEMBER WHO IS NOT PRESENT THE
THE SITTING MEMBER WAS PRESENT
IN THE AUDIENCE. OF THE SPEAKER
WAS ALSO PRESENT.
AND.
SO THESE ARE VERY INAPPROPRIATE
REMARKS ONE OF THE SPEAKERS
ACTUALLY USED THE C. WORD. TO
DESCRIBE ONE OF THE FEMALE
MEMBERS. AND.
NOTHING HAPPENED.
THE DINNER WENT ON. AND AFTER
THE DINNER THE SPEAKER SENT A
LETTER TO THE TWO. MEMBERS WHO
HAD SPOKEN. AND SAID THAT THEY
SHOULDN'T HAVE DONE THAT. AND
THE TWO MEMBERS SENT LETTERS OF
APOLOGY.
AND THAT'S THAT'S IT THERE WERE
NO SANCTIONS. AND WHEN I THINK
OF THE SHADOW OF A LEADER.
I THINK OF WHAT COULD HAVE
HAPPENED. AND MESSAGE THAT COULD
BEEN SENT NOT JUST TO THE PEOPLE
THERE THAT NIGHT BUT TO EVERYONE
IN STATE GOVERNMENT IF THE
SPEAKER HAD STOOD UP. GONE TO
THE PODIUM AND MADE THOSE THOSE
MEN SIT DOWN.
AND SAD TO THE ENTIRE AUDIENCE I
APOLOGIZE I'M SORRY FOR THOSE
REMARKS I'M SORRY YOU HAD TO
HEAR THAT WE DON'T ACCEPT THAT
KIND OF LANGUAGE.
CAN AND NOT OPPORTUNITY WAS
LOST. AND INSTEAD THE VERY CLEAR
MESSAGE WAS.
WELL WE TOLERATE THAT.
MAYBE WE WRITE A LETTER
AFTERWARDS BUT BASICALLY WE
TALLER.
AND I THINK THE WHOLE IDEA OF
THE SHADOW OF A LEADER AND AND
WHAT LEADERS DO. IS SO CRITICAL
IN THIS AREA OF HARASSMENT IN
ANY CHANGE THAT YOU WANT TO
MAKE.
SO I THINK THERE ARE MANY MANY
THINGS THAT CAN BE DONE EVEN TO
IMPROVE YOUR COMPLIANCE EFFORTS
AND AGAIN I THINK YOU LIKE MOST
EMPLOYERS ARE COMPLIANCE EFFORTS
ARE GOOD. WE WE'VE BEEN DOING
WELL AS EMPLOYERS FOR DECADES.
BUT I THINK THERE'S THERE'S
MORE TO BE DONE THERE BUT THIS
IDEA OF OF THE LEADERS IN THE
SHADOWS THEY CAST IS.
IS REALLY SO SIGNIFICANT PALM I
IN ONE OF THE.
THIS IS TESTIMONY THAT I SAW
WHEN I WAS PREPARING FOR THIS.
HEARING TODAY I SAW ON. THE
WITNESSES SAID THAT A CULTURE
EATS STRATEGY FOR BREAKFAST AND
POLICY FOR LUNCH. AND I LIKE
THAT AND I THINK IT MAY BE TRUE
BUT I WILL SAY THAT IF IT IS
TRUE.
CULTURE SHOULD HAVE A PRETTY
GOOD DIET SO YOU'VE GOT TO PAY
ATTENTION AND BE MINDFUL OF THE
POLICY AND THE STRATEGY AS WELL.
IN FACT THE THE SELECT TASK
FORCE THE REPORT FROM THE EOC
DOES SUGGEST THAT YOU.
IMPROVE WHAT IS AN ALREADY
COMPLIANT POLICY.
YOU IMPROVE YOUR TRAINING.
AND WE WE REALLY FOUND THAT
TRAINING THAT'S BEEN CONDUCTED
BY BY EMPLOYERS FOR DECADES IS
REALLY IT'S NOT EFFECTIVE SO ALL
EMPLOYERS REALLY NEED TO FOCUS
ON THAT. AND THAT WE CONSIDER
ADDING ADDITIONAL TYPES OF
TRAINING CIVILITY AND RESPECT
WAS AT THE TOP OF OUR LIST.
WE FOUND.
YES AND WE FOUND THAT.
DISRESPECT IN CIVILITY AND
TOLERANCE.
THOSE THINGS IN THE WORKPLACE
REALLY WERE THOSE WERE A
GATEWAY.
WE WE. WE DIDN'T JOKE WASN'T
FUNNY BUT WE WE KIND OF USE THE
TERM THEY WERE GATEWAY DRUG FOR
HARASSMENT IF YOU ALLOWED
DISRESPECT AND INCIVILITY IN THE
WORKPLACE YOU COULD EXPECT.
HARASSMENT TO FOLLOW SO.
THE EOC DID AS AS THE LAST
PANEL MENTIONED THEY'VE
DEVELOPED AN ENTIRE.
NEW TRAINING MODULE ON RESPECT
IN THE WORKPLACE. BOMB BYSTANDER
TRAINING THAT'S A SOMETHING IT'S
A TOOL THAT WE'VE NOT UTILIZE WE
STUDIED A LOT OF WHAT COLLEGES
AND UNIVERSITIES HAVE BEEN DOING
THEY'VE BEEN THEY'VE DEVELOPED
SOME REALLY EFFECTIVE BYSTANDER
TECHNIQUES. WHICH CAN BE ADAPTED
FOR THE WORK PLACE VERY
EFFECTIVELY.
IMPLICIT BIAS AND I THINK
YOU'RE YOU HAVE.
WE'VE HAD SOME DISCUSSIONS
ABOUT THAT ON THIS IN THESE
HEARINGS AS WELL THAT'S VERY
EFFECTIVE I'M YOUR SUPERVISORS.
AGAIN THE LAST PANEL TALKED
ABOUT SUPERVISORS AND THEY NEED
TO UNDERSTAND THEIR ROLE AND
THEY NEED TO UNDERSTAND THEY
DON'T THEY DON'T NEED TO BECOME
EXPERTS ON HARASSMENT. SOME WILL
SUMMER CAPABLE OF THAT SUMMER
NOT THEY JUST NEED TO UNDERSTAND
THEIR RESPONSIBILITY ABOUT
MOVING ISSUES FORWARD KNOWING
WHERE TO TAKE A PERSON OR WHAT
TO DO WITH THE PERSON WHO HAS A
COMPLAINT. YOUR INVESTIGATORS ON
TO THE EXTENT YOU USE INTERNAL
INVESTIGATORS AND I TOO AM VERY
MUCH IN FAVOR OF INTERNAL
INVESTIGATORS. UP TO A SITUATION
WHERE THE INVESTIGATOR DOESN'T.
IT IS REPORTING LITERALLY A
SUBORDINATE TO ON EITHER THE THE
VICTIM THE ALLEGED VICTIM OR ON
THE PERSON WHO'S ACCUSED IF THEY
HAVE AUTHORITY OVER THE
INVESTIGATOR. THAT'S OBVIOUSLY
NOT A SITUATION THAT CAN WORK
BUT BUT SHORT OF THAT.
AND AND THE PEOPLE THEN WHO ARE
INVESTIGATORS THE NEED CONTINUAL
TRAINING. ARM AND AND THEY WILL
APPRECIATE THAT THOUGH THE ONE
OF THE KEEP IMPROVING. ON
ADDITIONAL SINCE ONE OF
POTENTIAL A
SOLUTION I'VE SEEN IN SOME
WORKPLACES AN ARM BUT THIS
PERSON.
AND THAT MIGHT BE SOMETHING TO
THINK ABOUT WHO CAN TAKE THOSE
KINDS OF THOSE ISSUES THAT DON'T
RISE TO THE LEVEL OF HARASSMENT.
ARM AND THEN ANOTHER KEY
STRATEGY THAT THE TASK FORCE
RECOMMENDS IS ELIMINATING FIRST
IDENTIFYING. AND THEN
ELIMINATING RISK FACTORS IN THE
WORKPLACE AND WE IDENTIFIED
GENERALLY SOME RISK FACTORS THAT
WE SAW AS WE SURVEYED CASES THAT
HAD DEVELOPED IN THE AREA OF
HARASSMENT.
AND YOU HAVE I'D JUST AS I WENT
THROUGH THE LIST OF IDENTIFIED
RISK FACTORS AND AND YOU HAVE
SOME SPECIFIC ONES I'M SURE THAT
I'M NOT AWARE OF WHICH IS
GENERALLY. YOU HAVE A LOT OF
YOUNGER EMPLOYEES EMPLOYEES WHO
ARE ON PERHAPS THEIR FIRST OR
SECOND NON JOB AND I THINK THAT
TIES IN. WITH WHAT YOU WERE
TALKING ABOUT.
MEMBER MORLOCK ABOUT OF HIGH
SCHOOL STUDENTS AND TO ANSWER A
LITTLE BIT ONE OF YOUR QUESTIONS
THE EOC HAS SPECIFIC TRAINING
FOR HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS I DO
AGREE THAT'S TOO LATE BUT. OFTEN
HAVE A LEASE TRY TO REACH THEM
BEFORE THEY HAVE THEIR FIRST JOB
SO THEY KNOW WHAT TO EXPECT BUT
SOME OF THE PROBLEMS WITH THE
YOUNG WORK FORCE. NOT SUGGESTING
YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE THEM BUT SOME
OF THE PROBLEMS ARE THEY DON'T
AND THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT TO
UNDERSTAND. OUR WHAT TO EXPECT
IN A WORKPLACE THEY'VE BEEN IN A
DIFFERENT ENVIRONMENT THEY'VE
BEEN IN A COLLEGE ENVIRONMENT.
SO THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND KIND
OF HOW THINGS SHOULD WORK AND IF
THEY SEE A CERTAIN ENVIRONMENT
WHERE INAPPROPRIATE BEHAVIOR IS
TOLERATED OR INCIVILITY
DISRESPECT IS THE NORM.
THAT'S WHAT THEY KNOW THEN AS A
WORKPLACE SO ON AND THEY ARE
ALSO MORE SUSCEPTIBLE TO PEOPLE
WHO ARE. MAYBE OLDER OR WHO HAVE
MORE EXPERIENCE CERTAINLY.
THEY'RE HIGHER IN AUTHORITY.
SO THAT'S A PROBLEM AND THEY'RE
MORE LIKELY TO ENGAGE IN
MISCONDUCT BECAUSE THEY DON'T
HAVE MATURED AND THEY DON'T HAVE
EXPERIENCE SO IF THEY SEE OTHERS
ENGAGING IN MISCONDUCT AGAIN
THEY JUST ASSUME THAT THAT'S
APPROPRIATE. THEY ALSO LACK THE
CONFIDENCE. OF HAVING EXPERIENCE
OF A LACK CONFIDENCE TO
CHALLENGE BEHAVIORS THAT THAT
MAYBE THEY EVEN THEY DO THINK
THAT THEY'RE INAPPROPRIATE BUT
THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO ABOUT
THOSE BEHAVIORS.
AND SO AGAIN FOR THEM TRAINING
IS CRITICAL AND I'LL COME BACK
TO THAT CONCEPT OF THE SHADOW OF
THE LEADER. WHAT ARE THEY SEEING
THE LEADERS DO WHAT IS THAT THE
SHADOW THAT'S BEING PASSED ON?
YOU ALSO HAVE CLEARLY A
WORKPLACE WITH HIGH VALUE
EMPLOYEES.
AND THAT TOO HAS SOME OF THE
SAME RISKS.
THEY MAY BE PERMITTED TO.
OPERATE OUTSIDE THE RULES OR
THEY MAY PERCEIVE THAT THEY ARE
PERMITTED ON THE RULES DON'T
APPLY TO THEM IS KIND OF THE.
THE SUPERSTAR HARASSER IF YOU
WILL IS THE TERM THAT WE USED
FOR THOSE AGAIN RULES NEED TO BE
APPLIED UNIFORMLY HOW YOU KNOW
HOW IS THE LEADERSHIP HOW ARE
THEY TREATING THOSE PEOPLE.
SIGNIFICANT POWER DISPARITIES.
CERTAINLY YOU HAVE SIGNIFICANT
POWER DISPARITIES AMONG PEOPLE
WHO ARE INTERACTING IN THIS
WORKPLACE. BOMB.
ALCOHOL CONSUMPTION.
I AM TOLD THAT I'M AT TIMES
THERE MIGHT BE ALCOHOL
CONSUMPTION DURING AN AROUND
WORK HOURS THAT'S A RISK FACTOR
WE ALL KNOW THAT. WILL.
REDUCE INNOVATIONS IMPAIRED
JUDGMENT SO AGAIN.
THOSE DECISIONS HAVE TO BE MADE
WHAT WHAT ARE THE WHAT SHOULD.
WHAT WE WANT IN OUR CULTURE MOVE
MAYBE WE DON'T WANNA CHANGE IT
AT ALL BUT WE WANT TO BE MINDFUL
OF THAT AND THE RISKS THAT THAT
COULD? POTENTIALLY CREATE.
CRUDE OR DEMEANING LANGUAGE.
SOMETIMES THAT'S THE NORM IN A
WORKPLACE AND. THERE'S NO RULE
AGAINST IT. SOMETIMES A
WORKPLACE WILL DECIDE WE'RE
GOING TO HAVE NO PROFANITY
WHATSOEVER AGAIN A CULTURAL
CHOICE BUT UNDERSTAND THAT THAT
KIND OF LANGUAGE MAY DEVALUE.
CERTAIN INDIVIDUALS OR GROUPS.
SOME EMPLOYEES IF THEY DO WANT
TO OR IF THEY DO EXPRESS AN
OPINION.
AGAINST THAT KIND OF LANGUAGE.
THEY MAY BE VIEWED AS A KIND OF
OUTCASTS AND MAY BE VIEWED AS A
WEAKER.
SO AGAIN THE CULTURE THE SHADOW
OF A LEADER THOSE KINDS OF
THINGS SO. PART OF YOUR EFFORTS
I THINK SHOULD BE.
TARGETED AT IDENTIFYING THE
SPECIFIC RISK FACTORS THAT YOU
SEE AND.
AND THEN RESOLVING THOSE ISSUES
RESOLVING THOSE RISK FACTORS AND
THEN SOMEONE WILL SAY HOW DO WE
DO THAT AND I WILL SAY. THAT'S
UP TO ALL OF YOU AND BY ALL OF
YOU I WOULD SAY ENGAGE YOUR WORK
FORCE. I CAN'T ANSWER THAT FOR
YOU BUT I WILL I WILL TELL YOU
YOUR STAFF THEY KNOW PROBABLY A
LOT MORE. ABOUT THIS THIS. WORK
SPACE. THEN ALL OF YOU DO AND SO
I WOULD ENGAGE THEM DO A CLIMATE
SURVEY DO FOCUS GROUPS GET THEIR
INPUT.
IF THERE'S AN ISSUE THAT YOU
WANT TO DRESS ASK THEM. WATER
IDEAS THAT THEY HAVE FOR SOLVING
THAT AND HOW DO YOU ADDRESS
THOSE RISK FACTORS SO THOSE ARE
SOME OF THE THINGS ON. THAT I
WOULD SUGGEST FOR ABOUT IN TERMS
OF LEADERSHIP. THIS HAS TO BE
THAT LEADERS WHO ARE THE PEOPLE
WHO
ARE. FOR LACK OF A BETTER WORD
POPULAR WHO CAN LEAD A CULTURE
CHANGE WHO PEOPLE LOOK UP TO
ENGAGE THOSE PEOPLE AS WELL.
AND ALLOCATE THE RESOURCES AND
I UNDERSTAND THAT BUT THAT
DOESN'T ALWAYS MEAN DOLLARS. BUT
THE DOLLARS THAT ARE ALLOCATED
USE THOSE EFFECTIVELY AND THAT'S
ANOTHER REASON AGAIN THAT I
WOULD REALLY SUPPORT.
INTERNAL INVESTIGATIONS UP TO
ABOUT THAT LEVEL OF AND I THINK
THAT. YOU KNOW YOU YOU'VE
PROBABLY GOT I'VE MET SOME OF
THE PEOPLE HERE ARE. A LOT OF
TOWN INTERNALLY BUT YOU KNOW YOU
CAN.
YOUR OWN INVESTIGATORS THEY KNOW
YOUR CULTURE.
THEY KNOW THEY KNOW A PERSON'S
EMPLOYMENT HISTORY THE PERSON
WHO YOU KNOW PEOPLE AND ALL THE
WITNESSES THEY KNOW THOSE
PEOPLE.
FAR MORE THAN WHAT THEY WOULD
FIND IN A PERSONNEL FILE RIGHT
SO YOU GIVE UP A LOT OF THAT
INSTITUTIONAL KNOWLEDGE. WHEN
YOU GO OUTSIDE AND OBVIOUSLY
IT'S A LOT MORE COST EFFECTIVE
TO DO THAT AS WELL.
.
MAKE SURE THAT YOU'RE REPORTING
SYSTEM IS WORKING. I WOULD
SUGGEST YOU SHOULD TEST THE
SYSTEM.
KLAY.
CREATE A CLAIM AND SEE IF WHAT
HAPPENS TO IT. WHERE DOES IT GO
MAKE SURE IT'S WORKING?
DISCIPLINE OF COURSE SHOULD BE
PROPORTIONATE I THINK THAT YOU
ALL HAVE A CONCERN ABOUT THAT.
AND THAT'S ANOTHER THING THAT
INTERNAL INVESTIGATORS CAN HELP
WITH THEY CAN REMEMBER THE LAST
TIME SOMEONE WAS ACCUSED OF
SOMETHING SIMILAR. AND HOW THAT
TURNED OUT TO HAVE KIND OF THAT
INSTITUTIONAL KNOWLEDGE AND AN
CAN RECORD THAT AS WELL.
ACCOUNTABILITY FOR MANAGERS ON
THOSE OF YOU WHO ARE LEADERS
SHOULD SHOULD FIND WAYS TO HOLD
MANAGERS AND SUPERVISORS
ACCOUNTABLE.
WHAT WHAT IS MEASURED MATTERS
WE ALL KNOW THAT AGAIN THE
DIFFERENT KINDS OF TRAINING?
AND CLIMATE SURVEYS FOCUS
GROUPS.
AND I'D I THINK THERE'S THERE
AGAIN THERE'S SO MUCH GOOD THAT
CAN BE DONE ON SEVERAL FRONTS
BUT IMPROVING ALL OF THE
COMPLIANCE PIECES. THAT ARE
ALREADY DONE WELL AND MAKING
THOSE BETTER AND THEN AGAIN THE
LEADERSHIP IS JUST IT'S REALLY
IT'S ALWAYS GOING TO COME BACK
TO THE LEADERSHIP. AND IT'S IT'S
JUST VERY EXCITING TO SEE. ALL
OF YOU SO COMMITTED TO THAT.
THANK YOU MS DAVIS.
THANK YOU MADAM CHAIR IN MADAM
VICE CHAIR. AND MEMBERS OF THE
SUBCOMMITTEE FOR INVITING ME TO
TESTIFY.
I WILL GIVE YOU A BRIEF OVERVIEW
OF RESTORATIVE JUSTICE I WAS
ASKED TO DO THAT. AND IT WILL
TOUCH ON PRINCIPLES PRACTICES
DATA.
AND AGAIN TOUCHING ON POSSIBLE
APPLICATIONS HERE.
I BOW TO THE WOMEN AND MEN IN
THESE HALLS AND YOUNG. WHO HAVE
STOOD UP AND SAID THIS IS
ENOUGH?
IT IS THEIR COURAGEOUS TRUTH
TELLING THEIR CALL FOR
ACCOUNTABILITY AND CORRECTIVE
ACTION. AND THE ORGANIZING THAT
HAVE SPURRED HISTORICAL
RECKONING UNDER WAY HERE AND
BEYOND. ALSO WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE
THE COMMITTEE THE SUBCOMMITTEE
FOR ANSWERING THEIR CALL.
MY NAME IS FINE YOU DAVIS I WAS
BORN IN BIRMINGHAM ALABAMA
DURING THE CIVIL RIGHTS ERA
BECAUSE OF PERVASIVE RACIAL
TERROR WE KNEW MY CITY AS
BOMBING IN.
THE MURDER OF TWO CLOSE
CHILDHOOD FRIENDS IN THE
NINETEEN SIXTY THREE SUNDAY
SCHOOL BOMBING. CRYSTALLIZE
WITHIN ME A PASSION FOR JUSTICE
LEADING TO A LIFETIME OF
ACTIVISM I ALSO BECAME A CIVIL
RIGHTS TRIAL. LAWYER.
AFTER ALMOST THREE DECADES OF
ANGER REALLY FIGHTING INJUSTICE
AS A TRIAL LAWYER AND ACTIVIST.
I BECAME PHYSICALLY ILL.
I INTUITED THAT TO RESTORE
BALANCE I NEEDED TO BRING MORE
HEALING ENERGIES INTO MY LIFE.
AND SO I SHUT DOWN MY LAW
PRACTICE AND ENROLLED IN A
GRADUATE PROGRAM THAT ALLOWED ME
TO TRAVEL TO AFRICA. ONLINE
STUDY WITH HEALERS.
AFTER RECEIVING MY PHD AN
INDIGENOUS AND INDIGENOUS
KNOWLEDGE I DISCOVERED
RESTORATIVE JUSTICE KIND OF
SYNCHRONISTIC LEE.
IT IS THE JUSTICE THAT HE FEELS
HARM INSTEAD OF REPLICATING IT.
IT IS JUST AS THE REPAIRS
DAMAGED RELATIONSHIPS INSTEAD OF
SHATTERING THEM FURTHER AS A
TRIAL LAWYER SAUL LOT OF
EXAMPLES OF OF OF BAD
RELATIONSHIPS BECOME EVEN WORSE
WITH LITIGATION.
EVER SINCE I DISCOVERED WAS SORT
OF JUST AS I'VE BEEN WRITING
TEACHING AND SPEAKING ABOUT IT.
ALL OVER THE WORLD. I ALSO CO
FOUNDED FOR AND FOR TEN YEARS
DIRECTED. THE NATIONALLY
ACCLAIMED NONPROFIT RESTORATIVE
JUSTICE FOR OAKLAND YOUTH.
THAT'S OUR JOY HARJO AWAY.
RJ WORKS WITH JUSTICE SYSTEM
SCHOOLS AND COMMUNITIES
THROUGHOUT THE NATION WE PROVIDE
CONSULTATION TRAINING AND
TECHNICAL ASSISTANCE. REMOTE
RESTORATIVE JUSTICE POLICIES AND
PRACTICES.
OUR SUCCESSES HAVE BEEN FEATURED
ON PBS NPR AND IN THE NEW YORK
TIMES CBS THE SMITHSONIAN
STORYCORPS. AND ELSEWHERE.
AFTER LAUNCHING PILOT PROGRAMS
IN OAKLAND SCHOOLS OF THAT
INCREASE ACADEMIC OUTCOMES WHILE
DECREASING RACIAL DISPARITIES
EXPLOSION SUSPENSIONS AND
VIOLENCE.
THE SCHOOL DISTRICT ADOPTED
RESTORATIVE JUSTICE AS OFFICIAL
POLICY AND TODAY IT'S IN FORTY
SCHOOLS.
HAVE MORE THAN HALF OF THE
SCHOOLS IN THE DISTRICT.
ADDITIONALLY AMONG OTHER
PROJECTS WE'VE JUST RECENTLY.
BEGUN TO ENGAGE IN CONSULTATION
AND FACILITATION. TO ADDRESS
ISSUES OF SEXUAL HARM
PARTICULARLY IN THE RESTAURANT
INDUSTRY AND A NATIONAL AND
LOCAL ORGANIZATIONS.
FULL DISCLOSURE THIS IS NOT BEEN
A FOCUS OF MY PRACTICE OF
ARDUOUS PRACTICE RESTORATIVE
JUSTICE IS SOMETHING THAT WE'RE
COMING TO. A MORE RECENTLY THERE
ARE OTHER ORGANIZATIONS THAT
HAVE BEEN MORE FOCUSED ON SEXUAL
HARM AND I CAN. DEFINITELY REFER
YOU TO THEM IF YOU'D LIKE.
JUST A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE
ORIGINS OF RESTORATIVE JUSTICE
IT FIRST AROSE IN ONTARIO CANADA
IN THE EARLY SEVENTIES. AND THEN
IN INDIANA AND THE U. S.
SPEARHEADED BY THE MINUTE
NIGHTS.
OUT OF THE FRUSTRATION OF
PERSONS HARM TO PERSONS CAUSING
HARM COMMUNITIES. AND JUSTICE
PROFESSIONALS WITH THE
DYSFUNCTION OF OUR CRIMINAL
JUSTICE SYSTEM.
INSPIRED BY INDIGENOUS VALUES
RESTORATIVE JUSTICE IS A
PHILOSOPHY AND A THEORY OF
JUSTICE.
THAT EMPHASIZES BRINGING
TOGETHER EVERYONE AFFECTED BY
WRONGDOING TO COLLABORATIVELY
COLLABORATIVELY ADDRESS NEEDS
AND OBLIGATIONS AND TO HEAL THE
HARM TO RELATIONSHIPS AS MUCH AS
POSSIBLE.
WE PRIMARILY USE PEACEMAKING
CIRCLES VICTIM OFFENDER
MEDIATION PROCESSES RESTORATIVE
COMMUNITY CONFERENCING.
I AND IT'S APPLIED WE SORT OF
JUSTICES APPLIED IN MULTIPLE
CONTACTS SCHOOLS FAMILIES
WORKPLACES THE JUSTICE SYSTEM.
AND TO TRANSFORM LARGE SCALE
HARM.
RESTORATIVE JUSTICE IS A
PROFOUNDLY RELATIONAL PRACTICE.
RJ PIONEER HOW WOULD ZERO LINKS
IT TO THE JUDEO CHRISTIAN
CONCEPT OF SHALOM.
EMPHASIZING RIGHT RELATIONSHIP.
BETWEEN INDIVIDUALS BETWEEN
GROUPS BETWEEN PEOPLE AND THE
EARTH IN BETWEEN PEOPLE AND THE
DIVINE. IN AFRICAN TRADITIONS RJ
IS LINKED TO WHOM TO.
I AM A HUMAN BEING THROUGH MY
RELATIONSHIPS WITH OTHER HUMANS
WITH ALL THE EARTH'S
INHABITANTS.
OUR ADVERSARIAL SYSTEM IS BASED
UPON A ROMAN NOTION OF JUSTICE
AS JUST DESSERTS. IF I CAUSE YOU
TO SUFFER. THIS CREATES AN
IMBALANCE IN THE SCALES OF
JUSTICE AND THE ONLY WAY TO RE
BALANCE THE SCALE. IS FOR ME TO
SUFFER.
WE RESPOND TO THE ORIGINAL HARM
WITH A SECOND HARM ALWAYS IS A
SYSTEM THAT HARMS PEOPLE WHO
HARM PEOPLE. RECENTLY WHICH
REASONABLY TO SHOW THAT HARMING
PEOPLE IS WRONG.
INSTEAD OF REPRODUCING HARM
RESTORATIVE JUSTICE SEEKS TO
REPAIR. THE HARM TO
RELATIONSHIPS AFTER WRONGDOING.
CRIMINAL JUSTICE HE'S CRIME IS
BROKEN LAWS AND JUST AS THIS
PUNISHMENT.
RESTORATIVE JUSTICE SEES CRIME
IS BROKEN LIVES AND
RELATIONSHIPS.
AND JUSTICE IS HEALING.
MULTIPLE INTERNATIONAL STUDIES
SUPPORT RESTORATIVE JUSTICE IS
AFFECTED BY THIS. AND REDUCING
RE OFFENDING AND TRANSFORMING
PEOPLE AND RELATIONSHIPS.
BOTH HARMED AND RESPONSIBLE
PERSONS ARE MORE SATISFIED
ACCORDING TO THE STUDIES
RECEIVING BETTER OUTCOMES AND
GREATER ACCOUNTABILITY.
PERSONS HARMED ARE LESS LIKELY
TO FEAR THE PERSON THAT HURT
THEM AND LESS LIKELY TO FEAR THE
POSSIBILITY OF RE VICTIMISATION
THAN THOSE WHO GO THROUGH THE
CRIMINAL JUSTICE PROCESS.
A RECENT REPORT ON OAKLAND'S.
RESTORED THE DIVERSION PROGRAM.
DOCUMENTS IN NEARLY FIFTY
PERCENT REDUCTION IN REOFFENDING
COMPARED TO YOUNG PEOPLE GOING
THROUGH THE TRADITIONAL OF
JUVENILE LEGAL SYSTEM.
A STUDY OF OAKLAND SCHOOL BASED
RD PROGRAM SHOWS A FIFTY PERCENT
REDUCTION. AND OUT OF SCHOOL
SUSPENSIONS OF ONE HUNDRED
TWENTY EIGHT PERCENT INCREASE IN
TEST SCORES. SIXTY PERCENT
INCREASE IN GRADUATION RATES.
AND FIFTY SIX PERCENT REDUCTION
IN DROPOUT.
I'M A WITNESS.
STUDENTS WERE FAILING RAISIN
MULTIPLE INCARCERATIONS WHO WERE
NOT EXPECTED TO GRADUATE NOT
ONLY GRADUATE BUT SHE THREE UP
POINT PLUS GPAS.
GIRLS WHO A LONG TIME ENEMIES
BECOME FRIENDS UP TO SITTING IN
A PEACEMAKING CIRCLE INSTEAD OF
FIGHTING STUDENTS COME INTO THE
RESTORATIVE JUSTICE WHEN ASKED
FOR A TALKING PEACE. AND A
CIRCLE TO TALK THROUGH INSTEAD
OF FIGHT THROUGH THEIR
DIFFERENCES.
YOUTH AND ADULTS WHO WALK INTO
CIRCLE FEELING ANGER TOWARD ONE
ANOTHER AND UP EMBRACING.
I DON'T HAVE YOU SEEN ANY OF THE
VIDEOS THAT YOU CAN FIND ONLINE
YOUTUBE VIDEOS. ABOUT THESE
PROCESSES IN THEM THE KIND OF
MIRACULOUS.
OUTCOMES.
BUT THERE THERE ONE THAT I WOULD
RECOMMEND THIS WHOLE MEETING
WITH THE KILLER.
WHERE FAMILY MEMBERS AND MEET
WITH THE COLOR OF THEIR LOVED
ONE MINE AND INCREDIBLE HEALING
HAPPENS?
SO POSSIBLE APPLICATIONS.
IN THIS BODY.
THERE IS NO EVIDENCE THAT ANY
LEGISLATIVE BODY IN THE U. S.
HAS USE RESTORATIVE JUSTICE. TO
ADDRESS A SEXUAL HARM I SHOULD
SAY I DON'T KNOW OF ANY.
THAT SAID RESTORATIVE JUSTICE
HAS BEEN EFFECTIVELY IMPLEMENTED
IN THE NUMBER OF WORKPLACES
INCLUDING EDUCATIONAL
INSTITUTIONS OF HIGHER LEARNING.
IN TWO THOUSAND SEVENTEEN THE
TASK FORCE ON COLLEGE DUE
PROCESS RIGHTS AND VICTIM
PROTECTIONS. OF THE AMERICAN BAR
ASSOCIATION ENCOURAGE THE USE OF
RESTORATIVE JUSTICE IN
UNIVERSITIES TO ADDRESS TO
ADDRESS SEXUAL HARASSMENT.
HERE'S A CASE STUDY.
ARE ACTUALLY OUT OF THE THIS
COUNTRY IT'S IN CANADA IN
DECEMBER TWO THOUSAND FOURTEEN
WOMEN STUDENTS AT DOLL HOUSE THE
UNIVERSITY'S DENTISTRY SCHOOL IN
CANADA.
IT'S SEXUAL HARASSMENT AFTER
THEY LEARNED THEIR MALE
CLASSMATES AT POSTED VULGAR
MISOGYNISTIC SEXIST AND
HOMOPHOBIC COMMENTS THAT
TARGETED THEM SPECIFICALLY IN A
PRIVATE FACEBOOK MEN'S ONLY
GROUP.
CULTURE AND CLIMATE ARE
REFLECTED IN AND PERPETUATED BY
THESE POSTS.
THEY WERE REALLY OF JUST SO
GRAPHIC. I REMEMBER ONE POST
INVOLVED THE MEN ASKING FOR A
POLL. OF.
IN ANSWER THIS QUESTION OF WHO
WOULD YOU LIKE TO HATE. F..
YEAH.
AND THE RESPONSES TO THE POLLS.
NAME CERTAIN WOMEN'S CERTAIN
THOSE OF THE WOMEN WHO CAME
FORWARD WHEN I FOUND OUT FROM A
WHISTLEBLOWER.
THE WOMEN CHOSE TO PROCEED
THROUGH OVER AND RJ PROCESS
OPTION AVAILABLE UNDER DOLL
HOUSE UNIVERSITY SEXUAL
HARASSMENT POLICY.
TWELVE OF THE THIRTEEN MEMBERS
OF THE MAIL FACEBOOK GROUP
PARTICIPATED IN THE RESTORATIVE
JUSTICE PROCESS.
THE DENTAL SCHOOL AND THE ENTIRE
UNIVERSITY ALSO PARTICIPATED IN
RESPECT TO CULTURE AND CLIMATE
CLAIMS.
THE RESTORATIVE JUSTICE PROCESS.
LASTED FIVE MONTHS VERY BY NOT
SIMPLE YOU KNOW THEY TAKE A LONG
TIME.
ARE THERE NOT QUICK FIXES.
SUSTAINABLE FIXES USUALLY.
COMPLAINTS WERE HANDLE TO THE
SATISFACTION OF THE PARTICIPANTS
AND THE UNIVERSITY THE ACADEMIC
STANDARDS COMMITTEE IT'S LIKE
THEIR RULES COMMITTEE OR THE
STUDENT CONDUCT COMMITTEE.
CONCLUDED THAT THE YOUNG MEN
SUCCESSFULLY REMEDIATED THEIR
BEHAVIOR ALL THROUGH COMPLETION
OF THE RESTORATIVE JUSTICE
PROCESS AND THEREFORE THEY WOULD
NOT BE EXPELLED. THEY HAD TO
FURTHER DECISION ADULT TO
COMPLETE THE RESTORATIVE JUSTICE
PROCESS.
THE CHALLENGES WERE ENORMOUS
ESPECIALLY EXCEPTIONAL LEVEL OF
PUBLIC AND MEDIA ATTENTION. MUCH
BASED ON LOUD OUTCRIES FOR
PUNISHMENT.
HOWEVER I ALSO BELIEVE THIS WAS
A GAME CHANGER IN MODELER
RESTORATIVE INTERVENTION TO
TRANSFORM HARM. AS WELL AS TO
THE ONGOING WORK OF BUILDING
RESPECTFUL AND INCLUSIVE
RELATIONSHIPS TO CREATE A
HEALTHIER CULTURE AND CLIMATE.
DURING THIS PERIOD THE
PARTICIPANTS ENGAGED IN MULTIPLE
EDUCATION SESSIONS DEALING WITH
DIVERSITY AND INCLUSION GENDER
BASED DISCRIMINATION. BUILDING
SUPPORTIVE COMMUNITIES CONFLICT
RESOLUTION HUMAN RIGHTS.
IMPLICIT BIAS AND OTHER TOPICS
THE MALE STUDENTS ENGAGED IN
FURTHER RESEARCH TO PREPARE FOR
PRESENTATIONS BEFORE THE ENTIRE
SCHOOL. OF ABOUT WHAT THEY HAD
LEARNED ABOUT WHAT THEY HAD DONE
ABOUT WHAT THEY HAD LEARNED FROM
WHAT THEY HAD DONE.
ALL OF THE RESTORATIVE JUSTICE
PARTICIPANTS IN THIS GROUP THAT
I THINK THERE WERE ABOUT ONE T.
SOMETHING FACILITATED SCHOOL
WIDE CIRCLES TO EXPLORE
STRATEGIES FOR CULTURE AND
CLIMATE CHANGE.
I HAD THE GOOD FORTUNE OF BEING
AN AMOUNT OF SCOTIA HALIFAX AND
FUNNIER AND A HALF AGO.
AND THERE WAS A PRESENTATION
MADE BY THESE YOUNG MEN AND
WOMEN I WAS NEVER SO PROUD THERE
WERE ABOUT TWENTY FIVE OF THEM
IN.
WE'LL JUST WITH TEARFUL
LISTENING OF TWO OF THE ACCOUNT
OF THE EXPERIENCE.
LET ME JUST GIVE YOU A FEW
QUOTESWOMEN PARTICIPANTS SAID
AND I QUOTE.
FOR US. RESTORATIVE JUSTICE WAS
A SOLUTION TO A COMPLICATED
PROBLEM WE'RE SMALL CLASS FROM A
SMALL SCHOOL AND WE'RE TIGHT
KNIT COMMUNITY. AS A RESULT WE
HAD COME TO CARE DEEPLY ABOUT
EACH OTHER AS CLASSMATES AND HIS
FRIENDS.
IT WAS THIS CARING THAT MADE THE
REALIZATION OF THE FACEBOOK
REPEL CONTENT ABOUT US SO
UPSETTING.
RESTORATIVE JUSTICE PROVIDED US
WITH A DIFFERENT SORT OF
JUSTICE.
THEN THE PUTATIVE TYPE MOST OF
THE LOUDEST PUBLIC VOICES SEEM
TO WHAT WE WERE CLEAR FROM THE
BEGINNING WE WERE NOT LOOKING TO
HAVE OUR CLASSMATES EXPELLED. AS
THIRTEEN ANGRY MEN WANT US TO
KNOW MORE THAN THEY DID THE DAY
THE POSTS WERE UNCOVERED.
THAT'S NOT ACOUNTABILITY. NOR
DO WE WANT SIMPLY TO FORGIVE AND
FORGET.
RATHER WE WERE LOOKING FOR A
RESOLUTION THAT WILL ALLOW US TO
GRADUATE ALONGSIDE MEN WHO
UNDERSTOOD THE HARMS THE CAUSE.
OWN THESE HARMS AND WOULD CARRY
WITH THEM A RESPONSIBILITY AND
OBLIGATION TO DO BETTER.
AND THIS IS WHAT THE MEN AND THE
WOMEN SAID FOR ALL OF US THE
RESTORATIVE JUSTICE PROCESS
CREATED SPACE TO HAVE THE
DIFFICULT CONVERSATIONS WE
NEEDED TO LEARN FROM OUR
MISTAKES AND EXPERIENCES.
IT HAS HELPED US DEVELOP OUR
ABILITIES TO REFLECT CRITICALLY
COMMUNICATE AND RESOLVE PROBLEMS
AND CONFLICTS.
WE'RE OW MORE AWARE OF OUR
ACTIONS AND THEIR IMPACTS ON
OTHERS WE HAVE GROWN AS PEOPLE.
OF GAINING A DEEPER
UNDERSTANDING AND COMMITMENT TO
THE IMPORTANCE OF ACTING WITH
RESPECT. TRUST INTEGRITY
EQUALITY AND ACCEPTANCE.
FACEBOOK POSTS HAVE SHAPED OUR
STORY BUT WE WILL NOT LET THEM
BE OUR ONLY LEGACY.
WE COMMIT TO USING WE COMMIT TO
USING AND SHARING WHAT WE HAVE
LEARNED FOR THE BENEFIT OF
OTHERS. TO CONTRIBUTE BACK TO
THE COMMUNITIES WE HOPE TO SERVE
ONE DAY AS DENNIS.
ALSO I HIGHLY RECOMMEND IT IF
YOU'RE INTERESTED IN EXPLORING
ALREADY OPTION FOR THE
LEGISLATURE. THAT YOU LOOK AT
THIS REPORT THE FULL REPORT CAN
BE FOUND ONLINE.
AND VERY BRIEFLY ON
RECOMMENDATIONS.
I UNDERSTAND THAT SOME WOMEN OF
LEGISLATURE LIKE THE WOMEN A
DOLL HOUSE UNIVERSITY ARE
INTERESTED IN RESTORATIVE
JUSTICE OPTIONS.
THE LEGISLATURE COULD EXPLORE
MAKING AVAILABLE SUCH AN OPTION
FOR PERSONS HARMED ALBEIT IN
CASES THAT ARE. NOT AGGRAVATED
NOT SEVERE OF BEHAVIOR THAT
COMPRISE THE VAST MAJORITY OF
THESE CLAIMS IS AMY OPPENHEIMER
NOTES.
THIS THIS IS RECOMMENDED THIS
OPTION IS RECOMMENDED BY THE
AMERICAN BAR ASSOCIATION TASK
FORCE AND IS MODELED BY DOLL
HOUSE THE UNIVERSITY'S SEXUAL
HARASSMENT POLICY.
AND THIS WILL ALSO. PROVIDE A
SPACE WHERE PERSONS WHO HAVE A
NEED TO FEEL HURT. MAY BE HEARD.
SOMEONE TALKED ABOUT THAT
EARLIER.
ADDITIONALLY TO BEGIN TO
TRANSFORM ITS CULTURE OF SEXUAL
AND GENDER BASED VIOLENCE.
OF THE.
OF WHICH IS THAT YOU COULD OFFER
TRAINING TO LAWMAKERS AND STAFF
MEMBERS AND FACILITATING
RESTORATIVE JUSTICE CIRCLES.
ARE THEY COULD USE THESE
PROCESSES TO ENGAGE MEMBERS AND
THE STAFF. OF IN DEVELOPING
SHARED VALUES ENGAGING IN DEEP
EXPLORATION OF WHAT RESPECT
INSTABILITY IN THE WORKPLACE
REQUIRES OF EACH OF US.
WHAT IS HEALTHY MASCULINITY WHAT
ARE HEALTHY RELATIONSHIPS AND
WHAT A HEALTHY COMMUNITIES A
WHAT IS SAFETY IN THE WORKPLACE
LOOK LIKE FOR US HERE? IN THE
CAPITAL OF SEXUAL HARASSMENT
ALCOHOL CONSUMPTION ABUSE OF
POWER POWER DIFFERENT ALL OF
THESE TOPICS TO BE DISCUSSED AND
AND. AND POLICIES PERHAPS OR
SUGGESTIONS WERE POLICIES CAN
COME OUT OF THOSE CIRCLES. ME
JUST GIVE YOU REALLY BE STORY
ABOUT BULLYING AND A AND A HIGH
SCHOOL I BELIEVE IT OR MAYBE WAS
A MIDDLE SCHOOL.
A MIDDLE SCHOOL IS HAVING A HUGE
PROBLEM WITH BELIEVING THEY
BROUGHT IN VERY EXPENSIVE
CONSULTANTS WHO CREATED
BEAUTIFUL SHINY POSTERS TO ALL
DOWN THE HALLWAYS AND BROCHURES.
DID ANYTHING CHANGE NO.
SO RESTORATIVE JUSTICE PERSON
CAME IN AND SAID WELL WHY DON'T
WE. HAVE THE STUDENTS.
AWAY IN ON THIS ONE WE DO A
CIRCLE WITH THEM SO THEY CAN
TALK ABOUT BULLYING YOU KNOW HOW
IT MAKES THEM FEEL. HOW IT HOW
IT IMPACTS THE WHOLE SCHOOL? AND
WHAT THEY CAN DO. AND WHAT THE
SCHOOL CAN DO TO CHANGE IT.
THEY DID A COUPLE OF CIRCLES AND
CAME UP WITH A PLAN. BULLYING
ALMOST STOPPED COMPLETELY AS A
RESULT. SO I GUESS IT'S A PLEA
FOR WORKING ALONE WITH A SACK
MEMBERS AND LAWMAKERS SO WE'RE
HAVING THEM WORK TOGETHER
COLLABORATIVELY. OF TO COME UP
WITH IDEAS ABOUT WHAT NEEDS TO
BE DONE TO CREATE A MORE.
HEALTHY AND RESPECTFUL
WORKPLACE.
THIS LEGISLATIVE BODY IS
UNIQUELY POSITIONED TO BECOME A
MODEL FOR THE REST OF THE
COUNTRY. AND TRANSFORMING SEXUAL
HARM IN POLITICS THANK YOU.
THANK YOU BOTH.
.
RATHER EXCELLENT PANEL WITH.
VERY IMPORTANT INFORMATION AND
SUGGESTIONS EVERQUEST COUPLE
QUESTIONS FOR MS DAVIS.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR YOUR
PRESENTATION SO.
THE COUPLE QUESTIONS FIRST SO
IS YOUR SUGGESTION THAT RATHER
THAN WAIT FOR THE FUTURE.
ALLEGATIONS ARE INVESTIGATIONS
THAT IF WE WERE INTERESTED IN
WERE SORT OF JUST AS WE WOULD
SORT OF START NOW. AND SIT DOWN
WITH.
GROUPS OF PEOPLE OR
INCORPORATED INTO OUR SEXUAL
HARASSMENT TRAINING. A
COMBINATION OR KIND OF HOW WOULD
YOU ENVISION THAT HAPPENING
GIVEN THE NUMBER OF EMPLOYEES
THE NUMBER OF MEMBERS. OF THAT
SORT OF THING.
YES SO IN A SORT OF JUST AS WE
DON'T JUST DO THESE CIRCLES
AFTER HARM HAS OCCURRED.
OF IN FACT IN SCHOOLS WHEN WE DO
WE SORT OF JUST AS WE. RECOMMEND
THAT THERE ARE MORE COMMUNITY
BUILDING TRUST BUILDING A CIRCLE
SEVENTY PERCENT OF THOSE. VERSUS
THIRTY PERCENT OF CONFLICTS OF
LAWS SO YOU COULD START DOING
THESE COMMUNITY BUILDING CIRCLES
HE'S FIRST BUILDING SO WHAT DOES
IT MEAN WHAT IS IT OF.
RESPECTFUL AND CIVIL WORKPLACE
LOOK LIKE IN HERE FROM EMPLOYEES
ALL AND THEY WOULD COME UP WITH
PLANS POSSIBLY BUT TO DO THAT
YOU WE COULD TRAIN. OF PEOPLE TO
FACILITATE THOSE CIRCLES YOU
COULD BECAUSE I MEAN HOW MANY
EMPLOYEES ARE HERE.
THE WHOLE CAP. IN ALL CAPS.
TOTAL TWENTY FIVE HUNDRED TOTAL
STATEWIDE. SO YOU WON'T NEED A
LOT OF FACILITATORS FOR THE
CIRCLES BE HAPPENING. ALL OVER
IT ON THE IS THE THAT BOTH
BODIES. ARE SO TRAINING.
WE COULD DO RESTORATIVE JUSTICE
TRAINING YOU COULD ADD AS A
COMPONENT OF YOUR SEXUAL
HARASSMENT TRAINING. PROBABLY
BETTER DID USED TO JUST DO A ONE
OF DEDICATED ONE OR TWO DAYS
RESTORATIVE JUSTICE TRAINING.
CENTER TO TEACH PEOPLE NOT
NECESSARILY TO. FACILITATE THE
MORE COMPLICATED HARM AND
CONFLICTS CIRCLES BUT TO
FACILITATE THE COMMUNITY
BUILDING CIRCLES WHERE THEY
WOULD BE VERY DEEP DISCUSIONS.
AND THE AND THE THE POWER OF
THESE CIRCLES IS SOMETHING THAT
IS DIFFICULT FOR ME. TO CONVEY
OUR THERE ARE VIDEOS ONLINE THAT
YOU CAN FIND RESTORATIVE JUSTICE
FOR OAKLAND USED HAS A COUPLE OF
VIDEOS AND YOU GET A BETTER
BETTER EXAMPLE. A BETTER SENSE
OF HOW POWERFUL THESE CIRCLES
ARE IN TERMS OF CREATING A SPACE
WHERE PEOPLE FEEL SAFE TO SPEAK
THEIR TRUTH. ARM AND IN WAYS
THAT DON'T CAUSE FURTHER HARM.
OF.
AND.
CREATING SPACES USING THE
TALKING PIECE INTO THE FOR
EXAMPLE TALKING PEACE. IF I'M
HOLDING IT THAT MEANS THAT I'M
THE ONLY PERSON TALKING I'M
TALKING WITH RESPECT AND FROM
THE HEART. EVERYBODY ELSE IS
LISTENING WITH RESPECT AND FROM
THE HEART NO CROSS TALKING. THIS
IS AN
AMAZING.
ATMOSPHERE OF RESPECT. AND DEEP
LISTENING AND DEEP TALKING.
OFTEN THERE'S A LOT OF EMOTION.
YOU KNOW USUALLY TEARS WE SENT
A SORT OF DOSES OF THE MOST
IMPORTANT PIECE OF PAPER IS THE
KLEENEX. ANDAND OUR SYSTEM OF
JUSTICE OF COURSE WE AVE. FILES
ABOUT MOUNTAINS OF PAPER OF SO.
IF THESE CIRCLES A WELL
FACILITATED IT'S JUST AMAZING
TRANSFORMATION CAN OCCUR.
AND THESE ARE THE KIND OF
CIRCLES THAT YOU CAN ACTUALLY
START DOING NOW.
SO I'D BE VERY INTERESTED IN
EXPLORING WITH YOU FURTHER IN A
SORT OF OFF LINE. DIFFERENT
SCENARIOS OF HOW WE COULD DO
THAT I DON'T THINK IT'S. YOU
KNOW WE SHOULDN'T BE. PROBABLY
SHOULDN'T TAKE TIME. THINKING
ABOUT THAT BECAUSE I'M SURE
THERE'S A LOT OF DIFFERENT WAYS
THAT THAT COULD HAPPEN BUT I'M
INTERESTED IN EXPLORING THAT.
DEFINITELY SO WHEN YOU WHEN YOU
HAVE THE MORE RESPONSIVE TYPE OF
RESTORATIVE JUSTICE THAT HAPPENS
AFTER THERE'S BEEN AN INCIDENT.
IS A TYPICAL THAT THEY WILL BE
UP TO THE VICTIM TO DECIDE IF
THEY WANT TO SORT OF THE
RESTORATIVE JUSTICE COME JUSTICE
COMPONENT OR A MORE TRDITIONAL
KIND OF PUNISHMENT BASED STORE.
PENALTY BASED APPROACH YEAH IT'S
YOU IN USUALLY FOLLOWS THE THE.
DESIRES OF THE VICTIMS UPS IS A
VICTIM CENTERED PROCESS. YET.
OKAY AND THEN. OF YOU MENTIONED
THAT YOU YOU SAID SOMETHING
ABOUT USING THE RESTORATIVE
JUSTICE FOR THE LESS SERIOUS
OFFENSES ARE YOU ENVISIONING A
SITUATION WHERE THERE BE. SOME
CASES THAT CROSS THE LINE TO
WHERE YOU WOULDN'T WANT THE
RESTORATIVE JUSTICE OPTION WHERE
YOU WOULD SAY YOU KNOW REALLY
THE PERSON SHOULD BE EXPELLED OR
FIRED OR DO YOU THINK THAT THIS
IS SOMETHING THAT SHOULD BE USED
FOR EVERYTHING THAT'S NOT THE
LEVEL OF MAYBE CRIMINAL.
THE MORE THE LATTER MORE THE
LATTER. IN SCHOOLS FOR EXAMPLE I
I DON'T I THINK IT'S JUST REALLY
REALLY HARMFUL TO EXPEL. IF IT'S
CRIMINAL BEHAVIOR YOU DON'T
REALLY HAVE YOU HAD IT YOU DON'T
USE TEXANS ARE WASTED. TO
RESOLVE THE DISPUTE UNLESS THE
CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM HAS
RESTORED DOESN'T RIGHT NOW I'M
JUST SAYING THAT IT IS A DAY
WOULD YOU DO YOU FEEL THAT THERE
ARE SOME LINES I'M SAYING YOU
KNOW OBVIOUSLY SOMETHING THAT'S
CRIMINAL. WE SEND THE CRIMINAL
JUSTICE SYSTEM BUT IF IF THERE
ARE THINGS THAT FALL BELOW THAT
BUT ABOVE A CERTAIN THRESHOLD TO
WORRY YOU WOULD SAY YOU KNOW
WHAT. IN THIS CASE.
THE ASSEMBLY SHOULD FIRE THE
PERSON OR THE MEMBER SHOULD BE
EXPELLED OR DO YOU THINK THAT
YOU ENVISION WHERE THIS COULD BE
USED FOR ANY NON CRIMINAL.
SEXUAL HARASSMENT. ALLEGATIONS
ONCE IT.
AND IF THE PERSON CAUSING HARM I
DON'T LIKE IT BUT WE'LL BE BACK
UP I DON'T REALLY USE THE WORD
VICTIM. USUALLY SAY THE PERSON
WHO HAS BEEN HARMED AND IF YOU
WANT ME TO EXPLAIN WHY I CAN
TALK ABOUT THAT BUT. IF THE
PERSON WHO HAS BEEN HARMED ONCE
IT AND THE PERSON WHO WAS
BECAUSE THE HARM. AGREES TO TAKE
RESPONSIBILITY WE CANNOT HAVE A
CIRCLE OF WITH A PERSON WHO
DIDN'T WASN'T TAKING
RESPONSIBILITY.
ONLY TO READ HARM AND RE RE
VICTIMIZED THE THE PERSON I'M
SO.
YES. ANY ANY OF THE OFFENSE A
SHORT OF A CRIMINAL ONE. HOUR
WHERE THE VICTIM OR THE PERSON
WHO IS HARMED A ONCE IT AND THE
PERSON WAS BECAUSE THE HORN. A
TAKES RESPONSIBILITY FOR IT. AND
IF WE WERE TO MAKE THIS PART OF
OUR TRAINING THESE CIRCLES.
WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT.
TYPICALLY EVERYONE'S REQUIRED
TO ATTEND OR IS IT. IF YOU WANT
TO OTHERWISE YOU CAN JUST DO THE
OTHER TRAINER TO BECOME YOUR
PART OF YOUR TRAINING THAT
EVERYBODY'S RESPONSIBLE TO
PARTICIPATE IN. IT'S YOUR CHOICE
OF BUT I IT WE SAY IN OUR SORT
OF JUST AS THERE'S NO CORROSION
WE REALLY TRY TO AVOID COERCION.
OF.
SO BUT IT'S IT'S YOUR CHOICE.
THANK YOU WITHOUT ALL GO TO THE
PANEL FOR ANY QUESTIONS.
I'M ASSUMING NUMBER IS.
THANK YOU.
THANK YOU FOR YOUR PRESENTATION
SINCERELY APPRECIATED THAT.
MS DAVIS ONE OF YOUR YOUR
ORGANIZATION OUR JOY.
THE.
STANCE FOR OAKLAND YOUTH RIGHT
YES AND SOMETIMES WHAT WE KEEP
SAYING WE WANT TO CHANGE IT TO
OUR YOUTH BECAUSE WE I WAS GOING
TO SAY THAT. I THINK THAT IT'S A
PROGRAM THAT I THINK IF IF IT'S
OUR YOUTH THEN IT COULD BE USED
FOR. ALL OF OUR YOU. JUST NEED
TO SPEND THE MONEY TO PAY FOR OF
FOR ALL OF US NEED IT. IT'S
CLEAR THAT IT'S SOMETHING THAT
THE TWO. THINGS. THAT YOU TALKED
ABOUT THE SHADOW OF THE LEADER
AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT IN MY
NOTES I HAD NOTED THAT OFTEN
TIMES TO TALK ABOUT MANAGERS AND
SOMEONE WHO MANAGES THE
SITUATION SOMEONE WHO MANAGES
THE PEOPLE.
BUT WE REALLY NEED LEADERS. WE
NEED LEADERS WHO IN THE SHADOW
OF THAT LEADER THAT SETS THE
TONE FOR THE REST OF THE STAFF
THE SETS A TONE. FOR THE REST OF
THE EMPLOYEES OF COULD YOU TALK
A LITTLE BIT SPECIFICALLY ABOUT
THE NEED OR THE DIFFERENCE
BETWEEN A LEADER AND A MANAGER.
I THINK THAT LEADERS IS A MUCH
BROADER CONCEPT. OF I THINK
CERTAINLY THE MEMBERS ARE ALL
LEADERS I'M MANAGERS I HOPE. OUR
LEADERS YOUR BEST MANAGERS
CERTAINLY OUR LEADERS AND THEN I
THINK THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO DON'T
HAVE TITLES NECESSARILY BECAUSE
THEY DON'T HAVE ANY OFFICIAL
SUPERVISORY AUTHORITY BUT THEY
TOO ARE LEADERS. TO THINK
LEADERS IS A VERY BROAD CONCEPT
I TALKED ABOUT PEOPLE WHO.
ARE.
PEOPLE FOLLOW THEM PEOPLE LOOK
UP TO THEM. MAYBE MENTORS.
THOSE ARE LEADERS SO I THINK
LEADER IS A VERY.
INCLUSIVE CATEGORY TO THEIR THE
OFFICIAL LEADERS IN THE
UNOFFICIAL LEADERS AND NOT SO
I'M REFERRING TO AND THEY ALL
CAST A SHADOW. AND HOPEFULLY OF
THE SHADOWS A POSITIVE ONE AND
HOPEFULLY THEY'RE ALL IN THE
SAME DIRECTION. AND YOU ALL HAVE
AGREEMENT ABOUT THE CULTURE YOU
WANT TO CREATE.
WONDERFUL IT WAS INTERESTING.
THIS MORNING I WAS IN A BIBLE
STUDY AND IT HAD TO DO WITH
PUTTING. BRINGING THINGS TO
LIGHT ONE WICKED THINGS ARE DONE
IN DARKNESS THEY REMAIN IN
DARKNESS AND WHEN YOU PUT SHED
LIGHT ON IT I THINK THE CIRCLE.
OF SHEDS LIGHT ON. THE THE BAD
BEHAVIOR BUT ALSO RESTORING IT
TO THE HARM THAT DOES HAPPEN TO
THE PERSON PASSED RESTORING THAT
AS WELL. I THANK YOU SO MUCH
BOTH OF YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU.
SENATOR MITCHELL.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH BOTH OF YOU.
I WAS LISTENING TO YOUR
QUESTIONS AND AND.
AND.
YOU COULDN'T SEE ME I HOPE
SHAKING MY HEAD.
BECAUSE RECOGNIZING THAT. AS
WE'VE TALKED KIND OF AN ABSTRACT
ABOUT CULTURE CHANGE SOME PEOPLE
OF STRUGGLE BECAUSE IT'S LIKE
YOU KNOW WHAT. WHITE CULTURE
WITH WITH IS IT WOULD IT LOOK
LIKE HOW I KNOW ONE AND IT'S
CHANGED. AND RESTORATIVE JUSTICE
IS THIS IS FROM MY PERSPECTIVE A
TRUE CULTURE SHIFT AND SO WE
COULDN'T BE IN A POSITION WHERE
WE WOULD MANDATE IT ADMIT IT
REQUIRES BY IAN. YOU KNOW FOR IT
TO WORK.
I'M INTRIGUED BY HAD GIVEN THE
CULTURE OF THE LEGISLATURE GIVEN
YOU KNOW. ROOMS IN SITUATIONS IN
CONVERSATIONS I'VE BEEN A AND I
WAS SITTING HERE AND THINKING
BACK ABOUT. I WONDER IF WE WOULD
HAVE A BODY AND IN THIS SPACE IN
PLACE I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT.
THAT WE TALK ABOUT IT IN THIS
HEARING AND WE BEGIN TO AIR IT.
AS AN OPTION FOR US. WHEN I WAS
IN THE ASSEMBLY SIX SEVEN YEARS
AGO ASSEMBLYWOMAN WILMER CARTER
FROM. THE INLAND EMPIRE ALMOST
THE FIRST AS I RECALL IN THIS
LEGISLATIVE ARENA TO TALK ABOUT
IT IN TERMS OF LEGISLATING FOR
SCHOOL DISTRICTS.
BUT TO THINK ABOUT AS THE
CONCEPT OF SELF GOVERNANCE I WAS
FASCINATED BY AND HOPE. THAT WE
CAN CONTINUE TO TALK ABOUT IT AS
WE HAVE IMPLICIT BIAS.
AND FROM MY PERSPECTIVE THE
NEED FOR US AS. A CAPITAL
COMMUNITY TO BE AWARE OF OUR OWN
BIASES.
IN THIS CONTEXT OF THIS
COMMITTEE WE'VE TALKED WE'VE
WE'VE HAD LINEAR CONVERSATIONS.
LEGISLATORS WHO HAVE POWER OVER
STAFF.
SUPERSTAR HARASSER WHO CAN BE
STAFF YOU KNOW WE'RE IN A TERM
LIMIT ENVIRONMENT AND STAFF WHO
HAVE A LOT LONGER TEN YEARS
DIDN'T MEMBERS WHO.
CAN BEHAVE IN A DISRESPECTFUL
WAY THE OTHER WAY AND SO IT'S
NOT LINEAR IT GOES UP AND DOWN
IN IT AND CROSSWAYS. ANSEL
FIGURED OUT HOW WE DEVELOP A
SYSTEM TO ADDRESS ALL OF THESE
VIOLATIONS OF POWER I THINK IS
REALLY IMPORTANT. THE EXAMPLE
YOU GAVE FOR THE SHADOW OF A
LEADER.
AND.
AS I HAD A SIDE BAR WITH MY
COLLEAGUE ON THAT ONLY DID.
THE LEADER OR NOT TAKE ADVANTAGE
OF THE OPPORTUNITY TO STAND. AND
CHECKED THE BEHAVIOR IN REAL
TIME AS YOU WE AS PARENTS
UNDERSTAND YOU DON'T WAIT TO GET
HOME FROM TARGET WHEN THE BIG
HATE WHEN YOU FILL OUT BY ALL.
AND HAVE A TEMPER TANTRUM TARGET
WHY DON'T WAIT TILL I GET HOME
WE HAVE THE CONVERSATION I LEVEL
RIGHT THERE ON THE ISLAND TARGET
ABOUT WHY YOUR BEHAVIOR IS
INAPPROPRIATE. THAT DOESN'T IN
THE MOMENT THAT DOESN'T CHANGE.
AS WE GET OLDER.
AND AND THEN YOU HAVE TO WONDER
IF HE IS REPRIMAND OF OF THE
MEMBERS WOULD HAVE OCCURRED IF
THE VICTIM HAD EXPRESSED THE
CONCERN AT ALL. ALL RIGHT I MEAN
THERE WAS AN OUTCRY RIGHT ANSWER
RIGHT YEAH EXACTLY WAS PEOPLE
WENT CRAZY EXACTLY. AND I
APPRECIATE THE QUESTION ABOUT
YOU KNOW WHO IS THE LEADER WHAT
LEADERSHIP LOOKS LIKE BECAUSE
THE WHOLE NOTION OF BYSTANDER
TRAINING.
EVERYONE UNDERSTANDS THAT WE
HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO OUR
FELLOW.
MAN ARE ONE MAN.
TO STEP UP.
AND ADDRESS HARMON OFFENSE AND
SO YOU KNOW MY THOUGHT WAS ANY
ONE IN THAT ROOM.
COULD HAVE TAKEN A STAND DIDN'T
JUST HAVE TO BE THE SPEAKER
RIGHT ANY ONE IN THAT ROOM COULD
HAVE STOOD UP WALKED OUT. WALKED
OVER TO THE THE PERSON WHO WAS
THE RECIPIENT OF THE HARM AND SO
AS WE THINK ABOUT LEADERSHIP
IT'S NOT JUST THE TITLE.
.
AND WE DON'T OFTEN AVE TO WAIT
ON LEADERS TO DO THE RIGHT
THING.
THAT ANYBODY IN THAT ROOM COULD
HAVE TAKEN OF ACTION. THAT COULD
HAVE CHANGED THE WHOLE ENERGY IN
DYNAMIC AND IN ALL OF US ALL IN
UNDERSTAND THAT. THE.
THANK YOU.
Q. TOM AND I YOU KNOW I HAVE
SOME QUESTIONS THAT I AM I
PREPARED FROM IS WISE BUT IT'S
VERY INTERESTING BECAUSE IT'S
ALMOST HARD TO ASK THEM GIVEN.
THE RESTORATIVE JUSTICE.
APPROACH TO THIS IS SO
DIFFERENT FROM THE APPROACH THAT
WE HAVE RIGHT NOW. OF SORT OF
INVESTIGATING AND THEN YOU KNOW
DETERMINING SOME KIND OF PENALTY
OR COUNSELING OR WHATEVER IT IS
SO.
AFTER HEARING.
HEARING ABOUT RESTORATIVE
JUSTICE IT'S IT'S YOU KNOW IT'S
SORT OF INTERESTING TO TO KIND
OF READ BACK THESE QUESTIONS
THAT I PREPARED AND. AND HOW
DIFFERENTLY YOU WOULD EACH
ANSWER THEM SO I'LL ASK THEM AND
BOTH OF YOU CAN CERTAINLY.
RESPOND.
FIRST IS WHETHER IT IS
ACCEPTABLE TO GIVE A COMPLAINT
IN THE OPTION IN THE COMPLAINT
AND THE OPTION OF CONFRONTING
THE HARASSER. WHAT DO YOU THINK
IN THE TRADITIONAL MODEL AND I
CERTAINLY WE DON'T NEED TO HEAR
AGAIN THEY WERE SORT OF JUSTICE
BECAUSE THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT?
IS TO HAVE THAT INTERACTION BUT
RIGHT NOW. YOU KNOW GIVEN MORE
TYPICAL PROCESS WHAT WOULD YOU
THINK WOULD BE APPROPRIATE.
RIGHT ACTUALLY IN THAT THAT'S
CAN BE USED AS AN ASSESSMENT
TOOL AS WELL BY A GOOD.
INVESTIGATOR YOU MIGHT ASK IS
PART OF KIND OF THE INTAKE
PROCESS. YOU MIGHT ASK IF THE
PERSON HAS CONFRONTED THE PERSON
THEY'RE ACCUSING WHICH GIVES YOU
KIND OF A SENSE OF HOW THEY'RE
FEELING ABOUT IT HOW THEY'RE
KIND OF.
EXPERIENCING THE SITUATION.
THEY COULD THERE THEY CAN HAVE
EXTREME REACTIONS THEY CAN SAY
ON THE ONE HAND NO I I
ABSOLUTELY COULD NOT.
OR FIRED BY WHAT'S HAPPENING.
THEY COULD SAY WELL YES I HAVE
I'VE DONE THAT OVER AND OVER
AGAIN AND I'M GETTING TO WORK
KIND OF GIVES YOU A SENSE OF
PLACE. FOR WHERE THEY ARE.
SOMETIMES.
I THINK WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THE
FACT THAT THIS IS OFTEN BASED ON
THIS UNDERSTANDING RIGHT SO
SOMETHING THAT DOESN'T REQUIRE
A FULL BLOWN INVESTIGATION WHERE
IF THE PARTIES ARE AMENABLE ON.
WHAT YOUHAVE TO MAKE CLEAR FROM
A LEGAL STANDPOINT IS THAT IS
NEVER EVER THE COMPLAINING PARTY
IS RESPONSIBILITY TO IN ANY WAY
CONFRONT THE PERSON THAT THEY'RE
ACCUSING? SO WHETHER IT'S
THROUGH RESTORATIVE JUSTICE
WHICH MIGHT HAVE SOME APPEAL
WHICH YOU CAN BE VERY EMPOWERING
FOR THE PEOPLE WHO ARE ACCUSING.
FROM A LEGAL STANDPOINT WE CAN
NEVER EVER REQUIRE THE PERSON TO
CONFRONT THEM BOMB DIRECTLY SO
THAT HAS TO BE MADE VERY VERY
CLEAR AND THEN ONCE THAT'S VERY
CLEAR TO THEM IT'S HELPFUL TO
KNOW HOW THEY'RE FEELING ABOUT
THAT WHETHER THEY'VE DONE THAT
AT ALL. I'M I'M CERTAINLY MORE
CONCERNED IF THEY HAVE TOLD THE
PERSON SEVERAL TIMES THE
BEHAVIOR IS OFFENSIVE TO ME
RIGHT AND THE PERSON HAS
DISREGARDED THAT I'M ALREADY
GOING TO TAKE IT MORE SERIOUSLY.
IF THEY'RE UNWILLING TO DO THAT
I WANT TO KNOW THAT TOO.
I'M A MAN SO IT'S IT'S JUST
HELPFUL.
IN STARTING WHATEVER THE
PROCESS IS GOING TO BE AND THEN
IF THEY'RE OPEN TO IT AND IF
WE'VE GOT PEOPLE WHO ARE TRAINED
IN RESTORATIVE JUSTICE THAT'S.
ANOTHER OPTION THAT WE CAN
CONSIDER SO I DON'T KNOW THAT
YOU HAVE TO DIE I CERTAINLY
DON'T THINK YOU WOULD EVER
CHOOSE TO GO ALL ONE WAY OR
ANOTHER IT WOULD BE WONDERFUL I
THINK TO HAVE PEOPLE WHO ARE
TRYING TO DO RESTORATIVE JUSTICE
AND THAT. THAT COULD BE AN
OPTION FOR PEOPLE IN THAT
SITUATION BUT YOU CAN NEVER
FORCE THAT AND AND YOU WOULDN'T
WANT TO ANYWAY BECAUSE THAT'S
NOT PART OF THE PROCESS. WHAT
WOULD IT BE A WONDERFUL OPTION
TO HAVE I PERSONALLY AM THE
MENTION VERY EXCITED TO THINK
ABOUT RESTORATIVE JUSTICE AS AN
OPTION? MOM BUT YOU COULD NEVER
REQUIRED THAT.
OUR CURRENT SEXUAL HARASSMENT
POLICY PERMITS EITHER THE
COMPLAINT NOR THE RESPONDENT TO
APPEAL THE DECISION DO YOU THINK
THAT'S THE BEST PRACTICE NO NO
NO.
I KNOW I DON'T I FEEL THAT THAT
IS.
.
I BACKING UP. WHEN YOU HAVE AN
AGAIN I AM THE INTERNAL
INVESTIGATOR LET'S SAY WHO IS
WELL TRAINED. WHO'S GETTING
TRAINING ONTINUALLY THEY NEED
TO THEY MUST THEIR DUTY YOUR
RESPONSIBILITY IS TO CONDUCT
THAT PROMPT IMPARTIAL THOROUGH.
OBJECTIVE INVESTIGATION OF THE
THE LAST PANEL I I'M JUST SAYING
WHAT THEY SAID RIGHT THAT'S THEY
THEY. THEY WILL OUTLINED IT
OTHERS NO REASON TO REPEAT WHAT
THEY SAID WAS EXCELLENT SO YOU
YOU WANT THE INVESTIGATION TO
PROCEED THAT WAY IF THEY'VE DONE
THAT ONCE THEY FINISHED. THAT'S
THE RESULT.
I THINK IT IT WOULD TAKE AWAY
ANY AUTHORITY ANY.
YOU'D BE QUESTIONING THEIR
PROCESS THEIR PROCEDURE THEIR
ABILITY TO CONDUCT
INVESTIGATIONS TO ALLOW SOMEONE
TO SAY I APPEAL BECAUSE WHAT
THEY'RE SAYING IS I DON'T AGREE
WITH THE RESULT.
SO YOU'VE JUST SAID THAT ENTIRE
PROCESS ALL THE EFFORT THAT YOU
PUT INTO THAT ALL THE RESOURCES.
YOU WE JUST WANT TO DISREGARD
THAT BECAUSE I DON'T LIKE THE
RESULTS THAT'S ALL THAT'S
HAPPENING.
AND AGAIN THERE'S NO THEY HAVE
NO RIGHT OF APPEAL UNLESS YOU
GIVE THAT TO THEM.
AND I I JUST THINK THAT WOULD
BE A. MIS USE OF RESOURCES AND
IT REALLY JUST CALLS INTO
QUESTION EVERYTHING THAT THEY'VE
DONE RIGHT AND WE DO DO THAT
NOW.
.
THANK YOU MADAM CHAIR. IS A
FOLLOW UP ON THAT THOSE WHO.
THE PEOPLE THAT WE EMPLOY THOSE
TO DO THE INVESTIGATIONS ARE
PAID BY THE STATE AND SO IF YOU
HAVE.
THE INVESTIGATION THAT COMES OUT
IN A IN A MANNER THAT TOM.
IS IT SATISFACTORY TO WHO'S
BEING ACCUSED AND THEY THEY SAY
THERE COULD BE A BIAS THERE HOW
DO YOU KEEP THAT FROM BEING A
BIAS WHEN YOU HAVE. THE THE.
PARTY THIS BEING EMPLOYED. IS
EMPLOYED BY THE STATE WILL
EVERYONE'S EMPLOYED RATE THE
PERSON WHOSE ACCUSING IS IT
EMPLOYED BY THE STATE AS WELL.
AND THE PERSON WHO IS ACCUSED.
IS EMPLOYED BY THE STATE SO
EVERYONE IS WITH AN INTERNAL
INVESTIGATOR AND THAT'S PART OF.
THE GOOD INVESTIGATION I MEAN
THEY THEY HAVE TO BE MINDFUL AND
AGAIN I THINK AS THE PANEL
FRIENDSHIP OR RELATIONSHIP. THAN
THAT PERSON THEY CAN'T DO THE
INVESTIGATION SO DEPENDING ON
HOW MANY PEOPLE YOU HAVE WHO ARE
WELL TRAINED IN INVESTIGATION.
IT'S EITHER SIGN TO ANOTHER
INVESTIGATOR OR YOU YOU WOULD
HAVE TO GO OUTSIDE IF YOU
DON'T-HAVE OTHERS INTERNALLY BUT
THAT
MEANS RECOGNIZING THAT BIAS.
IF YOU'VE GOT SAY WILL ONLY ONE
PERSON AND THEN THEY HAVE A
RELATIONSHIP WITH ONE OF THE
PARTIES.
THEY HAVE TO REPORT THAT AND
THEY CAN'T DO THE INVESTIGATION
AND AND THE BIAS MIGHT BE IN THE
VICTIM MAY BE UNHAPPY WITH THE
RESULT. MEAN THEY COULD WELL BE
THE ONE SAYING NO I WANT TO FEEL
BECAUSE I DON'T LIKE THE RESULTS
SO IT'S NOT ALWAYS THE PERSON
WHO'S GOT. IT GOES EITHER WAY
RIGHT RIGHT BUT NO I'M SAYING
DON'T DO THAT YOU'RE SAYING I
DON'T LIKE YOU KNOW ACROSS
PROCESS BY EITHER SIDE. RIGHT
NOT IF YOU'VE GOT WELL TRAINED
INVESTIGATORS THAT COULD THAT'S
JUST DOING IT AGAIN. AND THEN
AND THEN. AND THEN WHY WOULDN'T
YOU JUST ALLOW ANOTHER APPEAL.
IF IT COMES OUT THE OTHER WAY.
SO I. DISAGREE WITH YOU WE ARE
POLICIES ARE NOT IN LINE WITH
THAT THOUGHT PROCESS RIGHT AND
RIGHT AND I I WOULD ECHO WHAT
THE PANEL SAID AS WELL I DON'T
ZERO TOLERANCE. WHAT I JUST
WANNA MAKE ONE MORE POINT ABOUT
THE ZERO TOLERANCE AND I'M
SPEAKING OUT OF TURN I KNOW
BECAUSE NO ONE ASKED?
THAT WAS MY NEXT QUESTION SO
YOU'RE PERFECTLY UNDER ON TOPIC
GREAT THANK YOU I AM DIED THE
OTHER PANEL I AGREE ALSO THE
ZERO TOLERANCE. IS CONFUSING TO
PEOPLE BECAUSE. IT'S
MISUNDERSTOOD THE OTHER THING
THE OTHER PROBLEM WITH A ZERO
TOLERANCE POLICY IS IT TENDS TO.
ALSO DISCOURAGE PEOPLE FROM
REPORTING HARASSMENT BECAUSE OF
DAMOS UNDERSTAND IT TOO AND SO
OFTEN SOMEONE WHO FEELS THAT
THEY HAVE.
BEEN THE VICTIM OF HARASSMENT.
THEY DON'T THEY DON'T WANT
SOMEONE TO LOSE THEIR JOB. THEY
WANT THE BEHAVIOR TO STOP. THEY
WANT TO PRESERVE THE
PROFESSIONAL RELATIONSHIPS AND
THEY JUST WANT THE BEHAVIOR TO
STOP SO IF THERE MISINTERPRETING
THE POLICY AS WELL AND BEGIN A
ZERO TOLERANCE MEANS THIS PERSON
WILL POTENTIALLY LOSE THEIR JOB.
THEY WILL NOT REPORT AND WE
ALREADY KNOW THAT HARASSMENT IS
SO GROSSLY UNDER REPORTED THAT
THE LAST THING WE NEED IS THE
POLICY ITSELF. ON MAKING IT MORE
DIFFICULT FOR PEOPLE TO REPORT
AND I WOULD SAY TO THAT.
YOUR POLICY YOU KNOW I SAID THE
TASK FORCE SUGGESTED EVERYONE'S
POLICY WHICH IS PERFECTLY
LEGALLY COMPLIANT CAN BE BETTER
YOUR POLICY SHOULD BE VERY
SPECIFIC TO YOUR WORK PLACE. SO
I CAN READ THIRTY I I'VE BEEN IN
PRACTICE FOR OVER THIRTY YEARS I
CAN PUT THIRTY EMPLOYERS
POLICIES TOGETHER AND THEY'RE SO
SIMILAR. ARM AND THEY SHOULDN'T
BE THAT WAY.
YOU KNOW THEY THEY SHOULD SHARE
SOME CHARACTERISTICS BUT THEY
SHOULD BE VERY SPECIFIC TO YOUR
WORKPLACE THEY SHOULD HAVE
EXAMPLES THE PEOPLE IN YOUR
WORKPLACE CAN PICK UP AND SAY.
YUP. YUP THAT COULD HAPPEN I
COULD SEE I COULD SEE THOSE THAT
SITUATION IN IN MY WORKPLACE SO.
THERE THERE'S REALLY A LOT OF
IMPROVEMENT THAT EVERY EMPLOYER
COULD MAKE.
YOU KNOW WE WE HAVE AN
ANONYMOUS.
THE WAY NOW THAT PEOPLE CAN
GIVE US SUGGESTIONS TO THIS
COMMITTEE. AND SUGGEST THINGS
FOR US TO THINK ABOUT AND LOOK
AT.
FOR EMPLOYEES WHO ARE ARE YOU
KNOW RELUCTANT TO COME FORWARD
EVEN THOUGH WE ARE GONNA HAVE
PUBLIC COMMENTARY HERE IN A FEW
MINUTES AND PEOPLE CAN GET UP
AND SPEAK TO SOME PEOPLE RATHER
DO IT ANONYMOUSLY. AND ONE OF
THE QUESTIONS THAT WE GOT ONE OF
THE CONCERNS WE GOT WAS ABOUT
THE THE USE OF ALCOHOL. BOTH
SOMETIMES IN THE BUILDING AFTER
HOURS AND SOMETIMES OUTSIDE I'M
WONDERING IF YOU EITHER YOU HAVE
A SENSE OF HOW ALCOHOL
CONTRIBUTES TO ANY OF THIS OR IS
THAT A RED HERRING WHERE IF WE
HAD A BETTER CULTURE. THAN
ALCOHOL WOULDN'T BE YOU KNOW.
THE THING THAT PEOPLE ARE
POINTING AT YEAH IT'S AS I SAID
IT'S IT'S A DEFINITE RISK FACTOR
AT ABSOLUTELY IT'S A RISK FACTOR
AND I THINK IT HAS TO BE PART
OF.
THE DISCUSSION ABOUT WHAT DO WE
WANT OUR CULTURE TO BE.
SO YOU COULD CHOOSE TO KEEP IT
JUST AS IT IS AND I DON'T KNOW
EXACTLY WHAT IT IS BUT OBVIOUSLY
THERE IS. ALCOHOL AVAILABLE AT
CERTAIN TIMES AND EVENTS AND YOU
CAN KEEP IT THAT WAY.
AND THEN I GUESS OVERLAY A
COMPLETELY RESPECTFUL OF.
CIVIL CULTURE I THINK WHAT YOU
SAID AT THE END OF THE LAST
PANEL WAS SO I THINK WE SHOULD
HAVE ALL JUST SAID.
A MAN AND WALKED OUT BECAUSE.
YOU SAID IF YOU'VE GOT A YOU
KNOW A CULTURE OF CIVILITY AND
RESPECT YOU CAN'T HAVE TOO MUCH
OF THAT AND I THINK THAT TRULY
IF YOU COULD ANY EMPLOYER COULD
DO THAT THEY'VE SOLVED THE
PROBLEMS.
SO I THINK THE FURTHER YOU GO
IN THAT DIRECTION. YOU KNOW
MAYBE THAT TEMPERS A PROBLEM
WITH ALCOHOL BUT ALCOHOL DOES
IMPAIR JUDGMENT. AND SO AND
ESPECIALLY WITH THE YOUNG WORK
FORCE. MEAN THAT'S JUST THAT'S.
IT'S RISKY.
AND THEN I WOULD ADD THAT OF.
IT WAS SORT OF JUST AS WE SAY WE
DON'T DO THINGS TO PEOPLE WE DO
THINGS WITH PEOPLE.
SO TO ANSWER THE QUESTION WHAT
DO WE WANT OUR CULTURE TO BE
THAT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT SHOULD
BE DECIDED BY SOMEONE ON TOP.
YOUR OWN IMPOSED ON EVERYBODY
ELSE IF YOU WANT AN EFFECTIVE
ANSWER THAT QUESTION I'VE BEEN.
ASKED TO PEOPLE YOU KNOW WHO
ASKED THE STAFF MEMBERS US. YOU
KNOW AT THE JANITORS EVEN YOU
KNOW.
AS THE FOOD SERVERS YOU HAVE
THEM SIT DOWN WITH THE LAWMAKERS
AND STAFF IN A CIRCLE WHAT DO WE
WANT OUR CULTURE TO BE YOU CAN
HAVE A WONDERFUL CIRCLE
DISCUSSION AROUND THAT. YOU CAN
COME UP WITH A PLAN SOME
RECOMMENDATIONS BUT GETTING IT
FROM THE PEOPLE OF YOU KNOW ON
THE GROUND IS IS REALLY REALLY I
THINK IMPORTANT.
.
TO HAVE THAT TRANSFORMATIONAL
CULTURE THAT WE REALLY WANT
RIGHT.
AND ONE OF THE.
NO. SIR DIALOGUES THAT I'VE
BEEN HEARING SORT OF INTERNALLY
IS THAT PEOPLE WANT. A GOOD
WORKPLACE IN PLACE AND A HEALTHY
WORKPLACE AND SOMETHING THAT'S
PROTECTIVE. TO EVERYBODY BUT
THEY ALSO DON'T WANT A WORKPLACE
WHERE MEMBERS NEVER AND INTERACT
WITH STAFF SOCIALLY OR WHERE
PEOPLE FEEL THAT THEY CAN'T JUST
RELAX AND YOU KNOW YOU HEAR IT'S
KIND OF THAT LONG THAT PENDULUM
SHIFTING LINE. WE WANT THINGS TO
BE BETTER BUT WE ALSO DON'T WANT
TO HATE COMING TO WORK BECAUSE
IT'S SO RIGID. YOU KNOW THAT
THAT IS JUST UNPLEASANT SO I'M
YOU KNOW IT'S. WELL THAT'S ONE
OF THE THINGS TO THIS CIRCLE
STUDENTS REALLY TENDS TO BREAK
DOWN THOSE BARRIERS BASED ON OUR
STATUS. A WE HAVE YOUNG PEOPLE
FOURTEEN YEAR OLD SITTING IN
CIRCLES WITH THE CHIEF OF POLICE
OR WITH JUDGES. ANOTHER ADULT
SENATE THAT THE END OF THE
CIRCLE DURING THE APPRECIATION
CEREMONY THEY SAY SOMETHING LIKE
WHAT WAS A GOOD CIRCLE BECAUSE.
I DON'T FEEL LIKE THE ADULTS
WERE TALKING DOWN TO ME YOU KNOW
I FELT LIKE WHEN I TALKED.
PEOPLE HEARD OF. AND THEN WE
KNOW WE'VE HAD A VERY GOOD
CIRCLE OF SO CREATING THOSE
SPACES WHERE OF. AUTHENTIC
CONNECTION CAN OCCUR REGARDLESS
OF WHETHER I'M A JANITOR YOU
KNOW OR. SPEAKER THE HOUSE YOU
KNOW. OF.
YEAH SENATOR MORLOCK.
DOCTOR DAVIS JUST ONE QUICK
QUESTION.
.
SURE WE WE SAW A LETTER FROM A
HUNDRED AND FORTY WOMEN.
ARE WE SAID ENOUGH AND I'M JUST
WONDERING IF YOUR PROCESS WOULD
BE HELPFUL.
.
YES I BELIEVE SO.
ESPECIALLY IF THOSE WOMEN ARE
INTERESTED IN ALTERNATIVES TO
PUNITIVE APPROACH IN SO MANY
WOMEN ARE FOR THE REASONS THAT
WERE STATED JUST EARLIER. ABOUT
MY CO PANELISTS. ON.
AND LIKE THE WOMEN THE DOLL
HOUSE THE THEY WERE SAYING YOU
KNOW THIS IS A VERY SMALL
COMMUNITY.
I KNOW THESE GUYS YOU KNOW WHO
SAID THESE HORRIBLE THINGS ABOUT
ME ON FACEBOOK. THEY'RE MY
FRIENDS YOU KNOW I DON'T WANT
TO.
THEM OUT OF DENTAL SCHOOL IN
THEIR CAREERS WILL BE. DESTROYED
I DON'T WANT THAT FOR THEM YOU
KNOW I WANNA A RESTORATIVE
PRODUCTS THAT'S I WANT TO
RESTORE THE PROCESS WHERE THEY
CAN REALLY LEARN.
SO I THINK IF THEY IF IF THE
WOMEN WHO SIGNED THAT LETTER ARE
INTERESTED IN ALTERNATIVES TO
PUNITIVE APPROACH IS IN OUR IN
OUR INTERESTED IN TRUE CHANGE.
TRANSFORMATION I THINK.
THIS KIND OF PROCESS COULD BE
VERY HELPFUL. THANK YOU WHO
WILL.
VICE CHAIRMAN JOHN.
I THINK TO YOUR EARLIER POINT
IT'S NOT JUST UP TO THE WOMAN
WHO SIGNED THE LETTER BUT THOSE
WHO CAUSE THEM HARM. HAVING TO
BE WILLING TO STEP UP AND TAKE
RESPONSIBILITY AND BE HELD
ACCOUNTABLE TO ENGAGE WITH IS
NOT A ONE DIRECTIONL LINEAR
KIND OF PROCESS.
EVEN LISTENING TO YOU TALK
ABOUT NOT WHEN THE PENDULUM TO
SWING YOU KNOW I THINK IT'S
IMPORTANT WE HAVE A FRANK
CONVERSATION ABOUT APPROPRIATE
EXPECTATIONS OF A WORKPLACE. WE
TALK A LOT ABOUT. YOUNGER
EMPLOYEES AND AND AND THEY'RE
PERHAPS NAIVELY TAY ABOUT WHAT
TO EXPECT. WE'VE TALKED ABOUT
ALCOHOL CONSUMPTION I'M SITTING
HERE THINKING YOU KNOW THAT
THAT'S NOT WHO I SEE.
A NEW BREED IT IN WORK RELATED
FUNCTIONS IT I'M NOT COMPLAIN
THAT YOUNGER EMPLOYEES IT'S ON
UP THE SPECTRUM AGE SPECTRUM. OF
WHAT THEY CAN SUPPORT AS WE TALK
ABOUT CULTURE SHIFT WE TALK
ABOUT.
AND A PERFECT EXPECTATION TO
HALF OF THE WORKPLACE I THINK IT
VARIES FROM MEMBERS OFFICE TO
MEMBERS OFFICE IN TERMS OF. THE
LEVEL OF.
OUTSIDE SOCIAL ENGAGEMENT.
AND THERE WON'T BE ONE STRICT
KIND OF WAY IN WHICH.
THE LEGISLATURE HAPPENS IT
VARIES BUT MEMBER TO MEMBER BUT
I THINK IT IS APPROPRIATE AS WE
TALK ABOUT CULTURE* SHIFT TO
TALK ABOUT THIS IS A HIGH
STRESS.
DEADLINE DRIVEN.
ENVIRONMENT.
NOT THAT IT'S UNIQUE TO ANY
OTHER. HIGH FUNCTIONING
WORKPLACE ON BUT IT IS UNIQUE IN
TERMS OF DEADLINES AND AND THE
IMPACTED ELECTORAL POLITICS.
ALL OF THOSE THINGS AND SO GIVEN
ALL THAT I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT
WE TALK ABOUT WHAT.
THIS ENVIRONMENT.
WHAT IS REQUIRED OF THIS
ENVIRONMENT AND WHAT'S NOT? YOU
KNOW THIS NOTION AND YOU HEAR IT
ALL THE TIME.
ABOUT THE AFTER HOURS
SOCIALIZING AND LEGISLATORS WILL
SAY WE DON'T HAVE TO GO TO THESE
EVENTS AND STAFF FEELING LIKE
THEY WILL HAVE TO STAFF MY
MEMBER DECEDENTS. AND MEMBERS OF
THE THIRD HOUSE THEY WILL HAVE
TO GO TO THESE EVENTS TO TALK TO
THE MEMBERS IN THIS NOTION
ABOUT.
AFTER HOURS ENGAGEMENT AND.
HOW WE TALK ABOUT THAT AND TAKE
RESPONSIBILITY FOR WHAT IT
TAKES?
TO EFFECTIVELY RUN THE SIXTH
LARGEST ECONOMY OF NEW IN THE
WORLD. ON AND WE HAVE THE POWER
TO INFLUENCE OUR CULTURE AND IN
WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE AND WHAT. THE
WORKPLACE ENVIRONMENT CAN AND
SHOULD BE. WE HAVE TO TALK ABOUT
THAT AND TEN I THINK IT'S
INTERESTING BECAUSE YOU SAY IT
YOU KNOW IT'S NOT THE YOUNGER
PEOPLE BUT. THEY ARE SEEING.
RIGHT AND SO THEN IF THEY HAVE
NOTBEEN IN A WORKPLACE BEFORE
THAN THEIR THINKING. OKAY THAT'S
WHAT WE DO RIGHT SO.
UNDER LABOR.
THANK YOU TO STAY OUT QUICKLY.
I HAD NEVER WORKED IN THE PLACE
WHERE PEOPLE DRANK. WHEN THEY
WERE WORKING.
AND YEAH I OKAY BUT I'M JUST
THROWING IT OUT THERE.
BECAUSE I THINK THAT THERE'S A
PLACE FOR EVERYTHING AND I THINK
THAT YOU CAN HAVE AN ENVIRONMENT
AT WORK.
YOU KNOW HOW I HAD A STAFF FOR
MANY YEARS US SOME OF THEM WERE
SIGNIFICANTLY YOUNGER THAN ME
SUMMER OLDER THAN ME. AND WE
COULD GO OUT AND HAVE DINNER AND
PEOPLE COULD HAVE A DRINK BUT AS
THE BOSS YOU HAVE TO SET THE
TONE AND IF I TOOK MYSELF OUT TO
DINNER AND I GOT SLOSHED. THEN
WHAT AM I SAYING TO THEM BUT
DOESN'T MEAN YOU CAN'T HAVE A
GOOD TIME USE HAVE BOUNDARIES
AND YOU IT ULTIMATELY COMES DOWN
TO THE PERSON IN CHARGE. WHO HAS
TO SET THE EXAMPLE FOR EVERYONE
AND I THINK MAYBE IN OUR HOUSE
BOTH HOUSES WE COULD DO A LITTLE
BIT BETTER JOB OF SETTING AN
EXAMPLE?
FEEL LIKE WE'RE STARTING TO GET
INTO ONE OF THOSE CIRCLES RIGHT
NOW.
YOU'RE TALKING.
YEAH.
YOUR PRESENCE YOU WHAT YOU WANT
WHEN YOU WANT WHAT.
NO I I MEAN THIS THIS IS BEEN A
REALLY WONDERFUL HEARING AND I
APPRECIATE JUSTICE MORENO BEING
HERE AND AND GIVING US YOUR
EXPERTISE AND I THANK YOU FOR
YOUR PATIENCE I I. I I DON'T I
I'VE NOT HEARING MEMBERS
DESIRING TO HAVE HIM COME BACK
UP AT THIS POINT. UNLESS YOU
HAVE SOME CLOSING THOUGHTS AFTER
HEARING ALL OF THIS WERE HAPPY
TO HEAR IT.
BUT.
THERE'S A LOT HERE FOR US TO
THINK ABOUT OF OUR NEXT HEARING
THAT WE'RE DOING.
WILL BE ABOUT OUR PREVENTION
AND OUR TRAINING AND YOU'VE
GIVEN US THE PERFECT ENTREE INTO
LOOKING AT THAT IN A SLIGHTLY
DIFFERENT WAY. AND AFTER THAT
WE'RE GOING TO BE WAITING FOR
THE RESULTS OF OUR CULTURE
SURVEY TO COME BACK AND OUR VICE
CHAIR MS MITCHELL. VERY WISELY
AT THE BEGINNING OF THIS
PROCESS.
BROUGHT THAT FORWARD SO WE ARE
DOING THAT AS WE SPEAK. AND THEN
WE'RE GOING TO BE GOING TO SET
OUT THE YOU KNOW MORE DIFFICULT
TASK OF CHANGING OUR POLICIES
AND OUR PROCEDURES IN OUR
TRAINING AND ALL OF THAT. AND I
THINK THAT WE YOU KNOW I STARTED
OUT KNOWING VERY LITTLE ABOUT
SEXUAL HARASSMENT. AND I FEEL
LIKE I'VE GOTTEN QUITE THE CRASH
COURSE AS I THINK OUR CAPITAL
COMMUNITY HAS. AND IT'S TO THE
BETTER BECAUSE THIS HAVING THIS
HONEST DIALOGUE. IS THE FIRST
STEP TO CHANGING THE CULTURE
ACKNOWLEDGING THAT THERE IS A
HAS BEEN A PROBLEM THAT WE CAN
DO A LOT BETTER. AND HEARING
FROM EXPERTS IN THE FIELD ABOUT
WHAT THE CURRENT BEST PRACTICES
ARE GIVING US IDEAS ABOUT
SOLUTIONS EVEN OUT OF THE BOX
SOLUTIONS. IS VERY EMPOWERING
THING FOR US IS THE LEGISLATURE
AND SO I'M REALLY LOOKING
FORWARD TO THE NEXT HEARING I'M
LOOKING FORWARD TO STARTING TO
YOU KNOW SET OUT RECOMMENDATIONS
FOR STAFF TO GO OFTEN. AND HELP
US CRAFT OF WHAT I THINK WILL BE
THE MODEL. SEXUAL HARASSMENT
POLICIES IS FOR THE FOR THE
NATION AND THANK YOU FOR BEING A
PART OF IT. GRANDDAUGHTERS DAVIS
SAID I THINK YOU YOU ARE YOU'RE
GOING TO BE THE MODEL.
THANK YOU AND THANKS TO THE
PANELISTS AND WITH THAT ARE
HEARING IS CONCLUDED. FELT SORRY
PUBLIC COMMENT I'M VERY SORRY I
KEEP FORGETTING THAT. ANY
MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC PLEASE
YOUR IT WE ARE VERY HAPPY TO TO
HEAR YOUR. THOUGHTS.
THANK YOU. TO THE COMMITTEE INTO
THE CHAIR AND THE VICE CHAIR AND
ALL THE MEMBERS SINCE IT'S JUST
BEEN A REALLY.
INSPIRATIONAL HEARING I'M JIM
WINDER GOING WITH THE FRIENDS
COMMITTEE ON LEGISLATION
CALIFORNIA AND.
WE'VE BEEN TALKING TO PEOPLE IN
THE BUILDING ABOUT RESTORATIVE
JUSTICE. WE'VE ALSO MET WITH
SAMANTHA CORE BAND AND ALICIA
LEWIS.
FROM WE SAID ENOUGH AND.
UP BECAUSE RESTORATIVE JUSTICE
IS SO VICTIM CENTERED OR PEOPLE
WHO HAVE BEEN HARMED CENTERED.
WE THOUGHT THAT WE WOULD REALLY
ONLY TALK TO PEOPLE IN THE
BUILDING ABOUT THIS IF THEY WERE
SUPPORTIVE OF IT AND.
I WON'T SPEAK FOR THEM BUT THEY
SAID THEY'RE VERY SUPPORTIVE OF
IT.
WE THINK THAT WHEN COMPLAINTS
ARE FILED UP.
AND WE HEARD TODAY THAT.
ABOUT NINETY PERCENT OF THE
SEXUAL MISCONDUCT DOES NOT RISE
TO THE LEVEL OF BEING A GREGIS.
HOWEVER WE DO WANT TO POINT OUT.
THAT WE THINK THAT BEHAVIOR IS
NEVER THE LESS.
OFFENSIVE AND INAPPROPRIATE AND
HARMFUL TO PEOPLE. AND OUT WHAT
ARE WE TELLING PEOPLE WHO'VE
ENTERED THAT BEHAVIOR AT THAT.
WELL IF IT DOESN'T RISE TO THE
LEVEL OF CRIMINAL SORRY THERE'S
REALLY NOTHING.
WE CAN DO FOR YOU OR. HAVE YOU
TALKED TO THE PERSON WHO DID
THIS TO YOU AS IF. THE PERSON
WHO'S BEEN HARMED IS SOME HOW
RESPONSIBLE
FOR.
FIXING. THE BEHAVIOR.
WE THINK THAT A RESTORATIVE
JUSTICE OPTION.
WOULD REALLY.
BE A WAY TO DEAL WITH SO MUCH
OF THIS BEHAVIOR THAT IS
OFFENSIVE AND APPROPRIATE SHOULD
NOT BE TOLERATED. BUT DOESN'T
NECESSARILY RISE TO THE LEVEL OF
CRIMINAL.
OUR BEHAVIOR AND WE REALLY THINK
IT IT SHOULD BE AN OPTION. I
CAN'T HELP BUT THINKING THAT.
SOME OF THE BEHAVIOR THAT I READ
ABOUT.
IN THE PAPER.
IF IT HAD BEEN CONFRONTED EARLY
ON UP.
THAT IT MIGHT NOT HAVE REACHED
THE LEVEL. OF OF BEING PERVASIVE
TO WEAR IT THEN BECOMES A A
CRIMINAL.
ISSUE AND.
THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN.
MADE FOR MUCH MORE POSITIVE.
OUTCOMES SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
WHEN THEY COME AND I APPRECIATE
THE FACT THAT YOU'VE TALKED TO
SOME IN THE CAPITAL COMMUNITY AS
WELL AS THE REPRESENTATIVE AND
WE SAID ENOUGH BUT. I HOPE YOU
APPRECIATE THE FACT THAT WE'VE
GOT STAFF THAT ARE JUST IN THE
CAPITAL COMMUNITY AND SO WE HAVE
AN OBLIGATION TO MAKE SURE.
THOSE WHO WERE DISTRICT OFFICES
WHO ARE IN. ALL THE MORE
ISOLATION. THAN THOSEWHO
WOULDN'T EAT HERE IN THE CAPITOL
BUILDING SUPPLY PREVIEW YOU
HAVEN'T HAD THOSE CONVERSATIONS
WE HAVE TO GO BEYOND THAT.
TO THE BROADER CAPITAL.
COMMUNITY AND FAMILY TO THE TO
THE BROADER EXTERNAL COMMUNITY
THAN THE WOMEN WHO SIGNED INTO
THE LETTER AND OUR PRO ACTIVE
MEMBERS OF THE WE SAID ENOUGH
MOVEMENT ITS. PEOPLE BEYOND
THOSE TWO GROUPS THAT WE HAVE A
RESPONSIBILITY TO MAKE SURE WE
INCLUDE IN THIS DIALOGUE FIGHTS
WITH SAY THAT.
SEEING AS THERE IS ANYBODY ELSE
WHO WANTS TO SPEAK YES.
AND ANYBODY ELSE'S PLEASE COME
ON LINE UP RIGHT UP AT THE
MICROPHONE. THANK YOU EVENING MY
NAME IS FATIMA CON FROM THE
AMERICAN FRIENDS SERVICE
COMMITTEE THANK YOU FOR HAVING
THIS HEARING AND FOR GIVING US
THE ABILITY TO SPEAK.
I'VE BEEN HOLDING CIRCLE IN SOME
CISCO IN ALAMEDA COUNTY FOR A
FEW YEARS NOW I'M SORT OF JUST
THE CIRCLES AND. EARLIER THERE
WAS A MENTION OF A NEED TO SHIFT
THE CULTURE AND SOMETHING THAT I
REALLY WANTE A HIGHLIGHT OF OUR
SORT OF JUSTICE IS THAT. IT MOST
DEFINITELY DOES OF A PARADIGM
SHIFT DECREASE A PARADIGM SHIFT
THROUGH DISCOURSE AND DIALOGUE
AND WOULD ALSO DOES IS FOR THE
PERSON WHO WAS HARMED IT ALLOWS
THEM TO HAVE POWER. OVER THEIR
SITUATION BY BEING ABLE TO
ADDRESS THE PERSON BEHIND THEM
AND OPEN AND ENGAGE IN A
CONVERSATION ASK QUESTIONS WHY
DID YOU DO THIS WHY DO YOU THINK
THIS WAS OKAY. NOT ONLY BUILDING
COMMUNITY BUILDING RELATIONSHIPS
EACH OTHER ALSO UNDERSTANDING
WHERE THE DISCONNECT WAS WHAT
THE HARM WAS WHITE HAPPENED HOW
IT HAPPENED AND HOW WE CAN BE
MOVING FORWARD. UNDERSERVED JUST
AS IF IT IS USED CAN BE REALLY
USES AS USEFUL TOOL TO ALLEVIATE
AND ADDRESS A LOT OF THE THINGS
THAT ARE HAPPENING. ON IN TERMS
OF SEXUAL MISCONDUCT I'VE HELD
RESTRICTIONS TO CIRCLES FOR
YOUTH. IN AND SOME OF THOSE
CIRCLES WERE CIRCLES AROUND
SEXUAL MISCONDUCT HER SEXUAL
HARM ON AND.
BEING ABLE TO SEE PEOPLES MINDS
OPENING AND A FULLY
UNDERSTANDING AND TAKING
ACCOUNTABILITY OF HERE'S WHAT I
DID AND HERE'S WHY IT WAS NOT
APPROPRIATE. ON THROUGH OPEN
DISCOURSE AND DIALOGUE REALLY
CREATED AT THAT SHIFT THAT WE SO
BADLY NEED.
AND SO I JUST WANT TO HIGHLIGHT
THOSE TWO THINGS THANK YOU.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR ANYBODY
ELSE WHO WOULD LIKE TO ADDRESS
THE COMMITTEE.
WELL THANKS AGAIN WITHOUT WE ARE
ADJOURNED