WELCOME MEMBERS AND MEMBERS OF
THE PUBLIC THE JOINT LEGISLATIVE
COMMITTEE ON CLIMATE CHANGE
POLICIES. THE SENATE
ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY COMMITTEE
IN THE ASSEMBLY. NATURAL
RESOURCES ARE NOW COMING TO
ORDER JOINTLY HERE. GOOD MORNING
IS HIS LEGISLATURE CONTINUES TO
WELCOME THE PUBLIC IN PERSON AND
PARTICIPATION VIA THE
TELECONFERENCE LINE. WE'RE GOING
TO PROVIDE A PARTICIPANT NUMBER
FOR TODAY'S HEARING AS WELL.
IT'S 877. 6928957 AND THE ACCESS
CODE IS 1850110. THE DETAILED
INSTRUCTIONS ON HOW THE
TELECONFERENCE SYSTEM WORKS. ARE
ON THE SENATE AND OUR COMMITTEE
WEBSITE AND WE'RE HOLDING OUR
HERE. HEARINGS HERE IN THE
STREET BUILDING A MASKING AS
MANY MEMBERS CAN CAN GET DOWN
HERE TO BE PRESENT. BUT UM,
SHOULD WORK. CLOSE TO A QUORUM,
BUT, UM WE CAN STILL BEGIN TO
HEARING FOR TODAY'S HEARING WILL
BE HEARING AH, A PANEL OF
WITNESSES PRIOR TO TAKING PUBLIC
COMMENT. AND THEN ONCE WE'VE
HEARD ALL THE WITNESSES, WE'RE
GONNA HAVE A PUBLIC COMMENT
PERIOD AT THE END AND TRY TO
GIVE A GOOD AMOUNT OF TIME FOR
THAT, FOR THOSE WHO ARE BRAVE
ENOUGH TO STICK AROUND AND WEIGH
IN. WE DO WANT TO GIVE YOU A
CHANCE TO TESTIFY. UM SO STAY
TUNED FOR THAT. UM PLEASE NOTE
THAT IN ORDER FOR US TO HEAR YOU
CLEARLY AND AVOID ACOUSTIC
FEEDBACK, YOU HAVE TO MUTE YOUR
DEVICE. YOU'RE WATCHING THE
HEARING ON IF YOU'RE GOING TO
GIVE TESTIMONY OVER THE PHONE
IT'S IMPORTANT THAT WE HEAR FROM
YOU AND THANK YOU FOR YOUR
PATIENCE. UH AND THE OTHER
CHAIRS WILL MAINTAIN DECORUM
DURING THE HEARING, AS IS
CUSTOMARY IN ANY INDIVIDUAL WHO
IS DISRUPTIVE MAY BE REMOVED
FROM THE REMOTE MEETING SERVICE
OR HAVE THEIR CONNECTIONS.
MUTED. UM SO I JUST WANT TO
START OUT FIRST HEARING FOR MY
CHAIRMANSHIP OF THIS JOINT
LEGISLATIVE COMMITTEE, HONORED
TO HAVE BEEN APPOINTED RECENTLY
, UM, WANT TO THANK THE REAL
COLLECTIVE EFFORT HERE WITH MY
VICE CHAIR. SENATOR CONNOLLY IS
COMING UP. SENATOR ALLEN CHAIR,
THE ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY
COMMITTEE AS WELL AS CHAIR
REVIS, UM AND THEIR STAFF FOR
PUTTING TOGETHER TODAY'S HEARING
. UM, WE KNOW IT'S ALL
RELATIVELY SHORT NOTICE, AND
THERE'S A LOT OF OVERSIGHT GOING
ON IN THE CAPITAL RIGHT NOW, AND
A NUMBER OF FRONTS. SO, UM, UM,
FOR THOSE WHO ARE NOT ABLE TO
ATTEND TODAY, THE REAL WORK
BEGINS AFTER THIS, UM WE DID A
SOME BACKGROUND AND WANNA WALK
MEMBERS THROUGH IT AND REALLY
GIVE US A CHANCE TO DIG INTO
SCOPING PLAN AND SORT OF THE
CORE OF CALIFORNIA'S CLIMATE
POLICIES. BUT WE KNOW THAT WE
CAN'T JUST GET DONE IN, UM IN A
FEW DAYS. UM AND IT'S GOING TO
BE A CENTRAL FOCUS. HOPEFULLY
FOR US HERE IN THE LEGISLATURE,
WE CAN PASS BIG BILLS, BUT THE
IMPLEMENTATION IS EVERYTHING. SO
UM, WANT TO DIG INTO ALL THAT
TODAY? UM I'LL, UM I'LL RESERVE
UH, SORT OF DEEPER COMMENTS FOR
THE PANELS. UM, BUT I WOULD JUST
SAY THAT THIS SCOPING PLAN FOR
THOSE WHO ARE NEWER TO
CALIFORNIA CLIMATE POLICY IS
SUPPOSED TO BE SORT OF THE
CENTRAL ROADMAP FOR HOW WE GET
TO OUR GOALS. UM AND WE, UM,
ACCELERATED THOSE GOALS LAST
YEAR WITH SOME IMPORTANT UH, AND
LANDMARK LEGISLATION. UH,
ASSEMBLY. THERE WAS AN ASSEMBLY
BILL THAT THAT SET US ON A 2045
PATH THAT CARBON NEUTRALITY AND
UM AND A DIRECT EMISSIONS
REDUCTION PATHWAY AS WELL. UM
AND THE AIR BOARD IS NOW
PROPOSED, UH, SCOPING PLAN THAT
GETS US OR AT LEAST CHARTS
SOMEWHAT OF THE WAY TO 2045, BUT
WE ALSO HAVE A NEAR TERM
DEADLINE IN 2030. AND ONE OF THE
BIG CONCERNS IS THAT WE DON'T
HAVE ENOUGH OF A ROADMAP FOR HOW
TO GET FROM HERE TO A NEAR TERM
THAT THAT THERE'S VISION FOR
THAT LONG TERM, BUT THERE ARE A
LOT OF TOUGH DECISIONS PLANNING
IMPLEMENTATION REGULATION
INVESTMENT. UM THAT ARE ALL
GOING TO HAVE TO HAPPEN ON A
VERY TRUNCATED PATHWAY FOR US TO
HIT. 2030 TARGET. UM AND FOR US
TO MAINTAIN OUR LEADERSHIP ROLE
IN CLIMATE, UH, NOT JUST HERE IN
IN CALIFORNIA, BUT GLOBALLY, SO
, UM, HOPING TO DIG INTO THOSE
DETAILS AND SPEND SOME TIME ON
THAT WITH YOU ALL TODAY, UM UH,
I'LL UH, LET'S SEE. SO ORDER
WISE. WE ARE GONNA WE'RE GONNA
TURN TO A FIRST PANEL BEFORE WE
HAVE CHAIR RANDOLPH HERE. BUT
FIRST I WANT TO GIVE A CHANCE
TO, UH, MY VICE CHAIR AND CO
CHAIR HERE TO MAKE ANY OPENING
REMARKS, AND THEN WE'LL GET
STARTED. UM, MR VICE CHAIR CO
CHAIR. I'LL GO. I'LL GO TO MY
RIGHT AND I'LL COME TO MY LEFT.
YEAH. WELL, THANK YOU. THANK
YOU, HENRY. THANK YOU, SENATOR.
UM I WANT TO ECHO THE THANKS TO
ALL THE STAFF, ESPECIALLY EQ
STAFF AT STEPPED UP
ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY STAFF THAT
WORKED SO HARD TO GET THIS
HEARING TOGETHER. THIS WAS A
VERY DIFFICULT HEARING TO
SCHEDULE. WE'VE GOT THREE
DIFFERENT COMMITTEES. UM YOU
KNOW, I ALSO KNOW THAT CHAIR
RIVA SENDS HER AGGRESSIVE. SHE'S
NOT GONNA BE ABLE TO BE HERE
TODAY. I DON'T BELIEVE BUT BUT
IT WAS A LOT OF A LOT OF WORK,
AND I REALLY DO WANT TO THANK
THE STAFF. AND ALL OUR FRIENDS
FROM CARB AND THE PANELISTS AS
WELL, WHO HELPED TO MAKE THE
STICK? PULL THIS TOGETHER. QUITE
FRANKLY, ALL THAT HARD WORK IS
LARGELY WHY I'M HERE. SO MANY OF
YOU KNOW, I LOST MY FATHER ON
SATURDAY. AND UM, I JUST WANTED
TO COME UP HERE FOR THIS
HEARING, PARTLY BECAUSE OF ALL
THE WORK, BUT ALSO, QUITE
FRANKLY, YOU KNOW, SO MUCH OF MY
INTEREST IN ENVIRONMENTAL
POLICY. I REALLY CAME FROM HIM.
YOU KNOW SOMEONE WHO, UH, IT WAS
VERY, YOU KNOW, COMMITTED TO
VERY INTERESTED IN THIS WORK
FOLLOWED OUR HEARINGS VERY
CLOSELY FROM HIS LAPTOP IN SANTA
MONICA AND I WAS VERY PROUD OF
CALIFORNIA'S ENVIRONMENTAL
LEADERSHIP AND CERTAINLY ANXIOUS
THAT WE CONTINUE THIS WORK AND I
AM UH, SO I WANTED TO BE HERE
FOR THIS HEARING TODAY. AS WAS
MENTIONED, UM, WE'RE FOCUSING ON
THE ON THE ON THE SCOPING PLAN.
WE ALL KNOW, OF COURSE, 17 YEARS
AGO THAT OUR PREDECESSOR, FRAN
PAVLEY. AND THE LEGISLATURE
PASSED A B 32 IS THAT MOTION?
THIS THIS REAL EFFORT TO DE
CARBONIZED ARE STATES ECONOMY.
NOT THEN YOU KNOW, AS WE ALL
KNOW THAT SAID, THE GOALS OF
ACHIEVING 1990 LEVELS. BY 2020.
WHICH OF COURSE, WAS THEN BUILT
UPON 10. YEARS LATER, WHEN WE
PASSED SB 32 TOGETHER, WHICH SET
THIS GOAL OF FOR A FURTHER 40%
REDUCTION. BY 2030. AND THEN
MOST RECENTLY, WE SAW ALAMAR
CITY WALK IN, UM WE PASSED A B
12 79, WHICH YOU SAID THE TARGET
OF CARBON NEUTRALITY BY 2045.
WITH AN 85% REDUCTION IN
EMISSIONS TO GET THERE. WE KNOW
THIS IS INCREDIBLY HARD WORK. WE
ALSO KNOW WE'VE PUT A LOT OF
TRUST. IN CARB TO DO THE BULK OF
THAT HARD WORK. THE CHAIR AND
I'M HAVING TO FIRE THIS MORNING
TOGETHER. WE TALKED ALL ABOUT
THIS. AYE. SO THERE THERE ARE
LOTS OF PEOPLE AT CARBON WORK
REALLY HARD EVERY DAY TO TRY TO
HELP US ACHIEVE THESE GOALS
ABOUT BUT WE ALSO, UM YOU KNOW
THEY THEY'RE WORKING EVERY DAY.
BUT ONCE EVERY FIVE YEARS WE GET
THIS UNIQUE CHANCE TO ZOOM OUT
AND SEE THE BIG PICTURE WITH THE
SCOPING PLAN UPDATE. AND I SO
THAT'S PROBABLY WHY WE'RE DOING
TODAY. NOW. OF COURSE, THE
LEGISLATURE HAS TASK. SOME
INDEPENDENT EXPERTS WITH AIDING
US TO KEEP TABS ON THE WORK THAT
CARB IS DOING TOWARDS ACHIEVING
OUR CLIMATE GOALS, AND WE'RE
HEARING FROM SOME OF THEM TODAY,
SOME OF THE MOST IMPORTANT
VOICES IN THAT CONVERSATION UM
THE MAIN IMPETUS FOR THIS
HEARING IS A REALLY IMPORTANT
AND DIFFICULT REPORT. QUITE
FRANKLY, THAT WAS PUT OUT BY THE
L. A. OH, THE LEGISLATIVE
ANALYST'S OFFICE THIS JANUARY,
WHICH RAISED SOME REALLY SERIOUS
FLAGS ABOUT SHORTCOMINGS THAT
THEY SAW IN THE 2022 SCOPING
PLAN UPDATE AND WE'RE GOING TO
HEAR MORE FROM DR ROSS BROWN. ON
THAT REPORT SHORTLY. WE'RE ALSO
JOINED BY TWO MEMBERS FROM THE
INDEPENDENT EMISSIONS MARKET
ADVISORY COMMITTEE. I IMAC DANNY
COLLINWOOD AND CAITLIN CETERA. I
WAS ABLE TO SPEAK WITH BOTH
YESTERDAY. THANK YOU FOR THAT
TIME. AND THEY BRING UNIQUE AND
VALUABLE PERSPECTIVES TO DO
THERE. UH YOU KNOW TO THE WORK
THAT THEY DO IN ADVISING THE
LEGISLATURE AND CARBON, THE
DESIGN OF THE STATE. CAP AND
TRADE PROGRAM. UM AND THEN, OF
COURSE, YOU KNOW LAST BUT NOT
LEAST, WE'RE HONORED TO HAVE THE
CHAIR OF CARP HERSELF LEANNE
RANDOLPH WITH WITH US TODAY, SO
THIS IS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR US TO
REALLY GET INTO THE SCOPING PLAN
UPDATE WHAT IT DOES WHAT IT
DOESN'T DO WHAT THE SHORTCOMINGS
WHAT THE LEGISLATURE CAN DO WITH
THIS INFORMATION STARTING RIGHT
NOW, AND I THINK WHAT WE'RE
LOOKING FOR IS FOR OUR PANELISTS
TO LIVE, DELIVER BRIEF SCENE
SETTING REMARKS. BUT THEN OPENLY
. AND ULTIMATELY HAVE A REAL
FRANK, UH, IN OPEN DIALOGUE WITH
EACH OTHER. THIS FRAMEWORK WAS
SET OUT BY THE LEGISLATURE WITH
A LOT OF DEFERENCE GIVEN TO
CARB. AND WE KNOW THAT THIS IS
JUST THE FIRST OF MANY HEARINGS.
I MEAN, I'VE SPOKEN EXTENSIVELY
WITH HENRY WITH SENATOR STERN
ABOUT THIS IN THE BUILD UP TO
THIS, AND I KNOW HIS.THIS JOINT
COMMITTEES THAT WITH WITH WITH
SELLING OUR ECONOMY WILL BE
WORKING REALLY HARD ON MANY MORE
HEARINGS MOVING FORWARD BECAUSE
THIS IS SO IMMENSELY IMPORTANT.
AND SO LET ME ALSO JUST
RECOGNIZE MY COLLEAGUE. OUR
BRAND NEW SENATOR WHO'S JUST HIT
THE GROUND RUNNING CAROL
MENJIVAR, WHO'S NOW HER VERY
FIRST EQ. RELATED ACTIVITY HERE
TODAY. SO WELCOME TO YOU,
SENATOR AND WITHOUT LOVE TO PASS
THEM BACK TO THE TO THE VICE
CHAIR. THANK YOU, SENATOR. AND
THANK YOU CHAIR. GOOD MORNING,
EVERYONE PLEASED TO BE A PART OF
THE JOINT COMMITTEE AS WELL.
CLIMATE CHANGE, AND ITS IMPACTS
ARE TRULY THE BIGGEST THREAT WE
FACE TODAY. THE CONSEQUENCES OF
CLIMATE CHANGE ARE NUMEROUS
SEVERE AND AFFECT THE WELL BEING
OF ALL PEOPLE, ANIMALS AND
ECOSYSTEMS ON THE PLANET, AND
CERTAINLY RIGHT HERE IN THE
GOLDEN STATE. THE URGENCY OF
ADDRESSING CLIMATE CHANGE CANNOT
BE OVERSTATED AND WITHOUT ACTION
. THE CONSEQUENCES WILL CONTINUE
TO WORSEN COUSIN EVEN GREATER
HARM TO PEOPLE, WILDLIFE AND THE
ENVIRONMENT. THAT'S WHY IT'S
ESSENTIAL THAT WE TAKE
MEANINGFUL STEPS TOWARDS
REDUCING GREENHOUSE GAS
EMISSIONS AND TRANSITION TO A
MORE SUSTAINABLE LOW CARBON
ECONOMY. CALIFORNIA CAN TAKE
JUSTIFIABLE PRIDE AND SETTING
AMBITIOUS SCORES. AND, AS WE
KNOW, 2030 IS ONLY A FEW YEARS
AWAY. TWO INDEPENDENT REPORTS
HAVE HIGHLIGHTED CONCERNS WITH
THE RECENT SCOPING PLAN UPDATE,
AS WAS JUST NOTED. IT'S
IMPERATIVE THAT WE RESOLVE ANY
AMBIGUITY IN OUR PLAN TO MEET
THE 2030 REDUCTION GOAL. TIME IS
OF THE ESSENCE. I UNDERSTAND
THAT CARB IS CURRENTLY
CONSIDERING THE ROLE ENGINEERED
CARBON SOLUTIONS SUCH AS CCS
WILL PLAY IN ACHIEVING OUR
CLIMATE GOALS. I DO NOT BELIEVE
CCS SHOULD BE DEPLOYED IN A WAY
THAT WOULD PROLONG CALIFORNIA'S
RELIANCE ON FOSSIL FUELS OR
ALLOW INDUSTRIES TO KEEP DOING
BUSINESS AS USUAL. I URGE CARB
TO TAKE A CLOSER LOOK AT THE
IMPLICATIONS OF CCS ON SOME OF
OUR CLIMATE POLICIES SUCH AS
LOCAL AIR QUALITY CONCERNS AND
TO LOOK AT WHETHER OTHER
ALTERNATIVES EXIST.
UNFORTUNATELY NOTE. FINALLY MY
ATTENDANCE IS ALSO REQUIRED IN
ASSEMBLY BUDGET COMMITTEE
SUBCOMMITTEE NUMBER THREE, WHICH
IS HAPPENING RIGHT NOW ACROSS
THE STREET, BUT I WILL BE
MONITORING THIS HEARING FROM
AFAR AS WELL. MY STAFF AND AGAIN
I LOOK FORWARD TO THE DISCUSSION
TODAY. THANK YOU. THANK YOU, MR
VICE CHAIR. UM UNLESS MEMBERS
HAVE OTHER OPENING REMARKS THAT
THEY WANT TO MAKE, UM, THINK
WE'LL DIVE RIGHT INTO OUR FIRST
PANEL. UM SEEING ON LET'S LET'S
GET STARTED. UM I KNOW ROSS
BROWN IS HERE WITH THE L A. OH,
WELCOME. AND FOR MEMBERS
FOLLOWING ALONG, YOU SHOULD HAVE
IN YOUR PACKET REPORT ENTITLED
ASSESSING CALIFORNIA'S CLIMATE
POLICIES TO MARCH 1ST DOCUMENT.
THERE FOR YOU. OKAY HOPEFULLY
EVERYBODY CAN HEAR ME. THANK YOU
. CHAIRS VICE CHAIR AND MEMBERS
ROSS BROWN WITH THE LEGISLATIVE
ANALYST'S OFFICE. UM AS YOU BOTH
MENTIONED OUR OFFICE RELEASED A
REPORT EARLIER THIS YEAR
ENTITLED ASSESSING CALIFORNIA'S
CLIMATE POLICY WITH A FOCUS ON
THE 2022 SCOPING PLAN UPDATE.
THERE'S ALSO A HANDOUT THAT
HOPEFULLY YOU HAVE IN FRONT OF
YOU, WHICH IS REALLY JUST MEANT
TO SUMMARIZE SOME OF THE KEY
FINDINGS FROM THAT REPORT FROM
JUST SPEND A FEW MINUTES
HOPEFULLY TO WALK THROUGH THAT.
UM I DO WANT TO JUST EMPHASIZE
BEFORE I BEGIN MY REMARKS JUST
TO KIND OF LITTLE BACKGROUND ON
THE REPORT. WE DO HAVE A
STATUTORY REQUIREMENT TO REPORT
ANNUALLY ON THE STATE'S CLIMATE
POLICIES. AND SO THIS IS IN
FULFILLMENT OF THAT REQUIREMENT
. OUR FOCUS OF THIS IS WAS
REALLY ON THE 2030. GOALS AS THE
CHAIR MENTIONED. CLEARLY THE
STATE HAS OTHER LONGER TERM
GOALS AROUND 2045. WE FOCUSED ON
THE 2030 GOALS, BECAUSE ONE
THAT'S KIND OF WHAT OUR
STATUTORY REQUIREMENT KIND OF
INDICATED WHAT WE SHOULD FOCUS
ON AS WELL AS WE DO THINK THAT
IS, UH, YOU KNOW, THAT'S A STATE
GOAL, AN IMPORTANT STATE GOAL
AND THE MOST NEXT KIND OF MOST
IMPORTANT KIND OF TARGET THAT
THE STATE HAS KIND OF A
STATEWIDE BASIS. SO WITH THAT,
I'M GONNA JUST WALK THROUGH THE
HAND OUT VERY QUICKLY. PAGE ONE
OF THE HANDOUT. REALLY JUST SOME
BACKGROUND ON THIS. I'M SURE
MANY OF YOU ARE WELL AWARE OF
WHAT OUR STATUTORY GOALS ARE
THAT HAVE BEEN SET SO YOU CAN
SEE SORT OF THE LINE WITH ACTUAL
EMISSIONS WHERE THEY'VE BEEN
SINCE 2006 AND THE GOALS THAT
WERE SET IN 2020 AND THEN 2030
GOAL OF 40% BELOW 1990 LEVELS
AND THEN THE 2045 EMISSION
REDUCTION GOAL. AH, UM PAGE TWO
OF THE HANDOUT JUST HAS A LITTLE
BIT OF BACKGROUND ON THE SCOPING
PLAN. UH CARB MUST UPDATE THAT
PLAN EVERY FIVE YEARS. UM, AND
IT REALLY IS SORT OF THE STATE'S
PLAN OR ROADMAP OR ACHIEVING ITS
STATEWIDE GOALS THAT WE SAW IN
THE PREVIOUS CHART. UM AND THE
PLAN MUST IDENTIFY AND MAKE
RECOMMENDATIONS ON MEASURES TO
ACHIEVE THE MAXIMUM
TECHNOLOGICALLY FEASIBLE AND
COST EFFECTIVE GHG REDUCTIONS
AND REACH MEASURE THAT'S PART OF
THAT PLAN. IDENTIFY EMISSION
REDUCTIONS COST EFFECTIVENESS,
LOCAL ERROR POLLUTION REDUCTIONS
FOR EACH OF THOSE MEASURES THAT
ARE IN THE PLAN. UM I'M SURE
YOU'LL HEAR MORE FROM THE CHAIR
ABOUT KIND OF THE DETAILS OF YOU
KNOW HOW THE HOW KIND OF YOU
KNOW WHAT CARBON INCLUDED IN THE
PLAN, I THINK, UH, SOME OF THE
MAIN PIECES OF THE PLAN. WE JUST
WANT TO HIGHLIGHT THAT WE'RE IN
THE 20 TO UPDATE OUR THAT THE
PLAN HIGHLIGHTS SEVERAL
DIFFERENT MODELING SCENARIOS TO
KIND OF REACH SOME OF THE GOALS
THAT WE MENTIONED. UM IT DOES
HAVE A SIGNIFICANT FOCUS ON 2045
LESS SO ON THE 2030 GOALS IN OUR
VIEW, UM, AND IDENTIFIES A MORE
AGGRESSIVE 2030 GOAL OF THE 48%
REDUCTION BELOW 1990 LEVELS
INSTEAD OF JUST A 40% REDUCTION.
SO IF YOU TURN TO PAGE THREE OF
THE HANDOUT AT JUST KIND OF ADDS
TO, YOU KNOW, THE PREVIOUS CHART
HAD KIND OF WHAT THE GOALS WERE.
THIS IS SORT OF, YOU KNOW WHAT
CARBS SCOPING PLAN SHOWS AND THE
KIND OF TOP DOTTED LINE THERE IS
WHAT THEY REFER TO AS A
REFERENCE SCENARIO, WHICH IS
REALLY MEANT TO BE KIND OF
BUSINESS AS USUAL OR KIND OF
UNDERCURRENT POLICIES WHERE THEY
SEE EMISSIONS GOING RELATIVE TO
WHAT OUR TARGETS ARE THE BOTTOM
LINE WHAT THEY REFERRED TO AS
THE SCOPING PLAN SCENARIO, SO
WHAT THEY'RE SORT OF VISION IS
FOR WHERE EMISSIONS WILL BE
ALONG THE WAY ON THE PATH TO ARE
THE TARGETS THAT WE'VE LAID OUT
AND YOU CAN SEE AND 2030 THAT
THOSE EMISSIONS ARE BELOW THE
KIND OF STATUTORY TARGET SO
THAT'S IT REFLECTS THAT MORE
AMBITIOUS 2030 GOAL THAT THEY'VE
SET. PAGE FOUR OF THE HANDOUT
REALLY GETS AT ONE OF THE TWO
KIND OF MAINE I THINK TAKEAWAYS
AND FINDINGS FROM OUR ANALYSIS
OF THE SCOPING PLAN. UH, AND THE
FIRST IS REALLY THAT, IN OUR
VIEW OF THE PLAN LACKS A CLEAR
STRATEGY FOR MEETING THOSE 2030
GOALS. UM THERE'S NO CLEAR
DESCRIPTION OF WHAT POLICY
APPROACHES WILL BE USED TO
REDUCE EMISSIONS. IT'S UNCLEAR
ABOUT HOW MUCH THE STATE WILL
RELY ON, FOR EXAMPLE, FINANCIAL
INCENTIVES VERSUS REGULATIONS
VERSUS CAP AND TRADE AND KIND OF
WHAT THE MIX OF THOSE POLICIES
WILL BE AND WHAT THOSE SPECIFIC
POLICIES WILL BE. INSTEAD THE
ESTIMATED REDUCTIONS THAT YOU
SAW IN THE PREVIOUS CHART ARE
REALLY DRIVEN IN MANY CASES,
LARGELY BY ASSUMPTIONS THAT ARE
DEVELOPED AROUND KIND OF WHICH
TECHNOLOGIES MIGHT BE IN PLACE.
AT THAT POINT WHAT BEHAVIORAL
CHANGES WE MIGHT SEE. SO, FOR
EXAMPLE, 25% AND ASSUMED SORT OF
25% REDUCTION IN VEHICLE MILES
TRAVELED BY 2030, OR, UH, YOU
KNOW, 70% OF REFINERY OPERATIONS
WILL HAVE CARBON CAPTURE AND
STORAGE BY 2030. AND THOSE ARE
KIND OF YOU KNOW, THAT SCENARIO
IS BUILT ON ASSUMPTIONS AROUND
THAT, BUT NOT KIND OF SPECIFIC
POLICIES AROUND HOW THAT WILL BE
ACHIEVED. IN OUR VIEW, KIND OF
THAT LACK OF POLICY, DETAIL AND
KIND OF CLEAR POLICY APPROACH
HAS SEVERAL DOWNSIDES ONE YOU
KNOW, TO THE EXTENT YOU KNOW, WE
HAVE TO KIND OF THEN, AS THE
NEXT STEP KIND OF TAKES TIME TO
DEVELOP THAT POLICY APPROACH AND
FIGURE OUT WHAT THOSE POLICIES
WILL BE. THAT CREATES A DELAY
AND INCREASES THE RISK THAT THE
STATE WON'T MEET ITS 2030
TARGETS. OF COURSE, TO THE
EXTENT THE STATE HAS TO SORT OF
RUSH TO MEET THOSE TARGETS,
BECAUSE THERE IS THERE DELAY
THEN IT COULD BE MORE COSTLY AS
WE TRY TO SORT OF, YOU KNOW, UH
, RAMP UP EFFORTS TO MEET THAT
THAT GOAL. AH CRITICALLY. WE
THINK THE LACK OF DETAIL, UH,
ABOUT SPECIFIC POLICY APPROACHES
LIMITS THE INFORMATION AVAILABLE
TO YOU THE LEGISLATURE AS YOU'RE
TRYING TO MAKE DECISIONS ABOUT
WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE TO HIT THE
TARGETS THAT YOU HAVE SET WHAT
THE DIFFERENT OPTIONS ARE WHAT
THE KIND OF STATES PLAN IS GOING
TO BE. AND EVEN AS YOU'RE
CONSIDERING POLICY APPROACHES
THAT COME BEFORE YOU THE
REGULATIONS OR BUDGET, UH,
ACTIVITIES AND SPENDING. YOU
KNOW HOW THOSE COMPARE HOW THOSE
FIT INTO THE STATE'S OVERALL
PLAN AND HOW YOU KNOW, ONE
OPTION COMPARES TO ANOTHER AND
KIND OF HOW YOU BALANCE THE
TRADE OFFS OF SOME OF THE
DIFFERENT POLICY APPROACHES THAT
YOU MIGHT SEE IN FRONT OF YOU.
UM AND THEN, FINALLY, WE THINK
IT'S IMPORTANT TO KEEP IN MIND
SORT OF THE STATE'S ROLE IN KIND
OF THE GLOBAL CLIMATE SCENE AND
WE DO THINK THE LACK OF A
CREDIBLE PLAN COULD POTENTIALLY
ADVERSELY AFFECT CALIFORNIA'S
ABILITY TO DEMONSTRATE KIND OF
GLOBAL LEADERSHIP. SO IT TURNED
TO PAGE FIVE. UM, THIS IS REALLY
SORT OF OUR OUR SECOND MAIN
CATEGORY OF FINDINGS FROM OUR
REPORT, WHICH IS REALLY THE CAP
AND TRADE PROGRAM SPECIFICALLY,
SO SORT OF ZEROING IN ON THAT
SPECIFIC POLICY IS NOT CURRENTLY
POSITIONED TO KIND OF CLOSE ANY
KIND OF EMISSIONS GAP OR ANY
KIND OF ADDITIONAL EMISSION
REDUCTIONS THAT ARE NEEDED TO
HIT SOME OF OUR 2030 TARGETS.
JUST BY WAY OF BACKGROUND, THE
2017 SCOPING PLAN UPDATE
IDENTIFIED CAP AND TRADE AS A
POLICY THAT WOULD HAVE SERVED
THAT PURPOSE OF KIND OF CLOSING
ANY EMISSIONS REDUCTIONS THAT
ARE THAT GAP THAT'S NEEDED TO
KIND OF MEET OUR 2030 TARGET. SO
ALL THE OTHER POLICIES THAT WE
HAVE WILL ACHIEVE SOME OF THE
REDUCTIONS AND THEN CAP AND
TRADE WOULD PLAY THAT ROLE AS OF
CLOSING THAT THAT GAP TO MAKE UP
THE DIFFERENCE. THE 2022 SCOPING
PLAN UPDATE DOESN'T ISN'T AS
EXPLICIT AND KIND OF WHAT THE
ROLE OF CAP AND TRADE WILL BE
NOW, UM, SO I THINK THAT IS KIND
OF AN OPEN QUESTION, AND ONE
PERHAPS YOU MIGHT WANT TO
EXPLORE IN IN TODAY'S HEARING OF
KIND OF HOW CARB USED THE ROLE
OF CAP AND TRADE, BUT IT'S LESS
EXPLICIT HERE IN THE 2022 PLAN.
WE DID WANT TO TAKE A LOOK AT IF
YOU CONTINUE TO WANT TO HAVE
THAT ROLE FOR THE PROGRAM,
WHETHER IT'S UP TO THE
CHALLENGE, WHETHER IT'S KIND OF
STRUCTURED IN A WAY TO ACTUALLY
ACCOMPLISH THAT. AND UM, UH, WE
KIND OF ESSENTIALLY FOUND THAT
YOU KNOW, AS CURRENTLY
STRUCTURED, IT'S NOT REALLY SORT
OF UP TO THAT. THAT TASK. I DO
WANT TO KIND OF BE CLEAR THAT AS
A AS A POLICY, OUR OFFICE DOES
THINK CAP AND TRADE CAN BE THE
MOST COST EFFECTIVE WAY OR
CARBON PRICING IN GENERAL CAN BE
THE MOST COST EFFECTIVE WAY TO
ACHIEVE GREENHOUSE GAS GOALS. SO
WE ARE SUPPORTIVE OF AND OF THAT
PARTICULAR POLICY APPROACH, BUT
IT HAS TO BE DESIGNED IN A WAY
THAT IS CONSISTENT WITH THE
GOALS OF THE LEGISLATURE HAS HAS
SAID IN THE AMBITIOUS GOALS. UM
AND SO WE DON'T THINK IT'S
CURRENTLY WELL POSITIONED TO
ENSURE THAT THE STATE'S GOING TO
MEET ITS ITS 2030 TARGET. WE
LOOKED AT A RANGE OF POTENTIAL
EMISSIONS SCENARIOS GOING
FORWARD AND FOUND UNDER UNDER A
WIDE VARIETY OF THOSE, UH, THOSE
SCENARIOS ESSENTIALLY THE STATE
WOULD KIND OF REACHED 2030,
WHERE EMISSIONS ARE ABOVE WHERE
THE STATUTORY TARGET IS, AND
THERE'S STILL PLENTY OF
ALLOWANCES AVAILABLE THAT ARE
UNUSED. AND SO IT'S ESSENTIALLY
JUST NOT STRINGENT ENOUGH TO
KIND OF BE CONSISTENT WITH THOSE
2030 GOALS. THAT DOES ASSUME
JUST SORT OF THE CURRENT
STRUCTURE OF THE PROGRAM, AND WE
CAN TALK ABOUT WHAT IF THERE ARE
POTENTIAL CHANGES, AND THAT
COULD CERTAINLY CHANGE MATTERS.
UM SO IF YOU TURN TO PAGE SIX OF
THE HANDOUT THAT JUST GIVES A
SORT OF GRAPHICAL REPRESENTATION
OF KIND OF WHY WE HAVE THIS
CONCERN, NISSEN, THE BASIC ISSUE
IS YOU KNOW, IN THE EARLY YEARS
OF THE PROGRAM, EMISSIONS ARE
WERE HAVE BEEN WELL BELOW WHAT
THE PROGRAM CAPS HAVE BEEN, AND
THAT'S A GOOD THING FROM AN
ENVIRONMENTAL PERSPECTIVE. BUT
WHAT THAT RESULTS IN IS KIND OF
A LARGE BANK OF ALLOWANCES THAT
CAN THEN BE USED LATER ON TO
COMPLY WITH THE PROGRAM. AND SO
YOU REACH THIS WHEN YOU GET OUT
TO 2030, OR THE LATER YEARS OF
THE PROGRAM, EMISSIONS CAN STILL
BE ABOVE KIND OF WHERE OUR
TARGETS ARE AND COVERED.
ENTITIES CAN CONTINUE TO USE
SOME OF THE ALLOWANCES THAT ARE
AVAILABLE, AND SO WE'RE NOT
ACTUALLY AT THE EMISSIONS
TARGETS THAT WE'VE SET. SO
APOLOGIES. I'LL TRY TO WRAP UP
HERE REAL QUICK PAGE SEVEN OF
THE HANDOUT REALLY GETS TO JUST
OUR TWO MAIN RECOMMENDATIONS.
ONE WE RECOMMEND THE LEGISLATURE
REQUIRE CARB TO CLARIFY ITS PLAN
FOR MEETING THE 2030 GOALS.
REPORT TO THE LEGISLATURE BY OUR
SUGGESTED DATE WAS JULY OF THIS
YEAR WITH MORE DETAIL ON KIND OF
THE PLAN. INCLUDING KIND OF THE
SPECIFIC EMISSION REDUCTION
MEASURES THAT IT ENVISIONS. AND
YOU KNOW THE COSTS AND GHG
REDUCTIONS AND AIR POLLUTION
IMPLICATIONS OF THOSE DIFFERENT
MEASURES TO HELP YOU KIND OF,
YOU KNOW, WITH YOUR POLICY
MAKING GOING FORWARD. AND THEN
TO CONSIDER CHANGES TO THE CAP
AND TRADE PROGRAM TO MAKE IT
MORE CONSISTENT WITH WITH THE
LEGISLATIVE GOALS AND TARGETS. I
WON'T GET INTO ALL THE DETAILS
AROUND SOME OF THE OPTIONS
RELATED TO THAT SOME OF THEM
INCLUDE, YOU KNOW, ADJUSTING THE
SUPPLY OF FUTURE ALLOWANCES,
LIMITING OFFSETS EVEN AN
EXTENSION OF THE PROGRAM BEYOND
2030 COULD HAVE IMPLICATIONS FOR
HOW STRINGENT THE PROGRAM IS
BEFORE 2030, AND SO THAT'S
IMPORTANT TO KEEP IN MIND AND WE
MIGHT GET INTO THAT CONVERSATION
HERE. UM WE DIDN'T GET THAT INTO
THAT. IN THAT REPORT INTO OUR
REPORT. IT WAS A LITTLE BIT
OUTSIDE OF OUTSIDE OF THE SCOPE.
SO UM, I'M GONNA END MY COMMENT
THEIR COMMENTS HERE. I KNOW WE
HAVE OTHER PANELISTS HERE, SO
I'M HAPPY TO ANSWER QUESTIONS
NOW OR WHENEVER THAT TIME COMES,
SO THANK YOU. OKAY THANK YOU, MR
BROWN. UM TWO MEMBERS, UH, HAVE
ANY INITIAL QUESTIONS FOR THE
LAO? UM I THINK WE'RE GONNA DO A
SORT OF BRIEF HER OPENING
REMARKS FOR THE FOR THE NEXT
PANEL, BUT WE WANT TO SPEND THE
SECOND HERE WITH WITH MR BROWN.
WELL, WE'VE GOT HIM HERE. HAPPY
TO DIFFER. I'VE GOT SOME
QUESTIONS OF MY OWN. BUT OPEN,
UM MAYBE YOU COULD JUST SPEND A
BRIEF MOMENT. HONING IN ON THE
BIGGER PICTURE POINT YOU MADE,
WHICH IS THAT THIS SCOPING PLAN
IS NOT LIKE THE OTHERS. UM AND
THE YOU CALLED IT ASSUMPTIONS
THAT ARE SORT OF DRIVING OUR
PATHWAYS. UM I KNOW THAT IN, FOR
INSTANCE, THE 2010 SCOPING PLAN.
UH CARB ACTUALLY ADOPTED THE LOW
CARBON FUEL STANDARD, WHICH WAS
A NEW REGULATORY FRAMEWORK THAT
WE DIDN'T TELL THEM EXACTLY WHAT
THAT OUGHT TO BE. BUT THEY
WORKED THROUGH A RULEMAKING
PROCESS AND ACTUALLY PUT
REGULATIONS INTO THE SCOPING
PLANET THAT WE'RE GOING TO SORT
OF DRIVE IT. UM MY OBSERVATIONS
, AT LEAST NOW IS THAT THIS
DOESN'T HAVE THOSE SORT OF TEETH
IN IT. IT'S MORE SORT OF ALMOST
A DESCRIPTION OF HOW WE COULD
GET THERE, AS OPPOSED TO THE
DRIVING REGULATORY FRAMEWORK OR
THE DOCUMENT THAT'S GOING TO DO
THAT. IS THAT A THING? IT'S A
FAIR CHARACTERIZATION. AND CAN
YOU KIND OF JUST HELP US
UNDERSTAND? I GUESS. THE. THE
PARTS THAT AREN'T IN HERE, LIKE
JUST DRILLING DOWN ON THAT A
LITTLE MORE AND GIVING US A
LITTLE BETTER SENSE OF WHAT'S
THE UNFINISHED BUSINESS HERE,
EITHER FROM THE ADMINISTRATION
OR ON OUR PART YEAH, I THINK YOU
SUMMARIZE KIND OF OUR MAIN VIEW
OF IT PRETTY WELL. I MEAN, AND
THAT'S SORT OF THE KEY. I THINK
CONCERN THAT WE HAVE AROUND. UM
YOU KNOW THE SORT OF SPECIFICS
AND I THINK YOU KNOW YOUR
REFERENCE TO, FOR EXAMPLE, THE
LOW CARBON FUEL STANDARD, WHICH
HAS BEEN SORT OF UM, WAS SORT OF
A NEW POLICY THAT WAS INCLUDED
AS SORT OF A WAY TO ACHIEVE SOME
OF THE STATES TARGETS AND
PREVIOUS SCOPING PLANS NOT TO
POLICY THAT STILL EXISTS, OF
COURSE, BUT, UM, THERE'S LESS
SPECIFICITY AROUND KIND OF HOW
MANY REDUCTIONS ARE GOING TO BE
ACHIEVED ASSOCIATED WITH THAT
POLICY GOING FORWARD, THE
SPECIFIC KIND OF CHANGES THAT
MIGHT BE MADE TO THAT POLICY
GOING FORWARD. UM ANY SORT OF
NEW POLICIES IN PREVIOUS SCOPING
PLANS THERE WAS, YOU KNOW, KIND
OF, YOU KNOW, REFERENCE TO, YOU
KNOW, RENEWABLE PORTFOLIO
STANDARDS WILL BE ACHIEVING THIS
LEVEL OF EMISSION REDUCTIONS.
LOW CARBON FUEL STANDARD WILL BE
ACHIEVING THIS LEVEL OF EMISSION
REDUCTIONS FOR ALL THE OTHER
EMISSION REDUCTIONS THAT OUR
POLICIES OUR CURRENT POLICIES
ARE THE ONES THAT WE'RE
PROPOSING THAT ARE NOT BEING
ACHIEVED. CAP AND TRADE IS GOING
TO MAKE UP THE GAP. THAT WHICH
IS THIS AMOUNT, UM SO REALLY
SORT OF A CLEAR ARTICULATION OF
WHAT THE PLAN IS IN TERMS OF
SPECIFIC POLICIES. IN THIS CASE
IN THE CASE OF THIS PLAN, I
THINK THERE IS A LARGE RELIANCE
ON ASSUMPTIONS AND KIND OF A
VIEW OF WHAT TECHNOLOGIES WE
WILL HAVE IN PLACE. HOW MANY
ELECTRIC WATER HEATERS HOW MANY?
UM YOU KNOW, ELECTRIC HEAT PUMPS
WHAT THE CHAIN AND BEHAVIORAL
CHANGES IN TERMS OF KIND OF HOW
MANY VEHICLE MILES TRAVELED WILL
REDUCE GOING FORWARD, BUT LESS,
UM, SORT OF THIS SPECIFIC
POLICIES THAT WILL GET US TO
THOSE TO THOSE ASSUMPTIONS, AND
I THINK FROM A LEGISLATIVE
PERSPECTIVE YOU KNOW WHAT YOU
YOU DEAL WITH, WITH POLICY
MAKING, AND IT'S THE POLICIES
THAT YOU KNOW, REALLY, I THINK
ARE SORT OF, YOU KNOW IMPORTANT
TO UNDERSTAND. AND OF COURSE,
THE LEGISLATURE DOESN'T ALWAYS
HAVE TO AGREE WITH WHATEVER
POLICIES THE ADMINISTRATION OR
CARB IS PROPOSING. AND THAT'S
PART OF AN ONGOING DISCUSSION,
OF COURSE, BUT AT LEAST HAVING
SORT OF A STARTING POINT FOR
HAVING THAT DISCUSSION OF WHAT
POLICY ACTIONS NEED TO BE TAKEN
IN ORDER TO KIND OF MAKE THIS
VISION BECOME A REALITY. WHAT
ARE THE TRADE OFFS AND THEN YOU
CAN MAKE YOUR DECISIONS AROUND?
WELL, MAYBE WE VIEW THINGS A
LITTLE BIT DIFFERENTLY, AND WE
EMPHASIZE OUR PRIORITIZE A
DIFFERENT POLICY A LITTLE BIT
MORE. WE CAN PUSH A LITTLE BIT
FURTHER, BUT AT LEAST HAVING
THAT KIND OF STARTING BASELINE
WE THINK IS VERY IMPORTANT AND
FAIR TO SAY, NOT JUST POLICIES
THAT NEED TO GET US THERE. BUT
INVESTMENTS AS WELL. I MEAN, YOU
SORT OF MENTIONED POLICIES. AH
YOU KNOW, SORT OF COMPLIANCE
REGULATIONS OR BROAD POLICIES.
THEN THEN THE INVESTMENT SIDE. I
KNOW THE VICE CHAIR IS GOING OFF
TO BUDGETS UP THREE RIGHT NOW.
IN OUR BUDGET SUB TWO, WHICH IS
THE CORAL AREA IN THE SENATE IS
HAVING A HEARING TOMORROW. UM
FAIR TO SAY THAT THAT SORT OF
THE INVESTMENT ROADMAP, IF YOU
WILL IS ALSO NOT REALLY CLEAR
LIKE WE DON'T QUITE UNDERSTAND
WHAT CUTTING $8 BILLION OUT OF
THE CLIMATE BUDGET IS GOING TO
DO TO ACHIEVING THE 2030 GOALS,
FOR EXAMPLE. YEAH, I MEAN, I
WOULD WAS USING SORT OF POLICY
IS KIND OF A CATCH, ALL
CERTAINLY TO INCLUDE BUDGET
ACTIONS AND SPENDING AS WELL AS
REGULATIONS AND MARKET BASED
MECHANISMS LIKE CAP AND TRADE. I
MEAN, I THINK. TO TRY TO BE FAIR
TO CARB. I THINK PAST SCOPING
PLANS, YOU KNOW, THEY DIDN'T
ALWAYS INCLUDE A LOT OF
SPECIFICS AROUND KIND OF THE
SPECIFIC AMOUNT OF MONEY THAT
WOULD BE GOING TO A PARTICULAR
PROGRAM. BUT I DO THINK THERE
WAS A LITTLE BIT MORE OF A
VISION OF KIND OF, YOU KNOW,
KIND OF HOW WE GET THERE. BUT
THE KIND OF SPECIFIC FUNDING
AMOUNTS I THINK IS, OF COURSE,
THAT'S A ALSO A LEGISLATIVE
DECISION AROUND KIND OF YOU KNOW
HOW IT PRIORITIZES ITS ITS
BUDGET, BUT I WOULD VERY MUCH
INCLUDE A BUDGET ACTIONS AS PART
OF THE KIND OF OVERALL SUITE OF
POLICIES THAT THE STATE IN THE
LEGISLATURE WANTS TO, YOU KNOW,
IDEALLY, CAN I HAVE A VISION FOR
HOW IT MOVES FORWARD FOR
ACHIEVING SOME OF THESE GOALS
JUST TO PUT A FINER FIND A POINT
ON THAT. THE MY UNDERSTANDING IS
THE MODEL THAT CARB USED TO LOOK
AT OUR SORT OF PATHWAY DIDN'T
FOR INSTANCE, FACTOR IN THE
INFLATION REDUCTION ACT. IT
DIDN'T TAKE INTO ACCOUNT, FOR
INSTANCE, UH, LARGE AMOUNTS OF
FEDERAL FUNDING THAT MIGHT COME
INTO ME ACCELERATED PARTICULAR
PATHWAY OR THAT THAT THAT'S
THAT'S MY UNDERSTANDING AS WELL
. YEAH AND THAT YOU KNOW THAT
COMPLICATES. I THINK YOUR JOB OF
TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WITH WITH
THE STATE'S LIMITED RESOURCES.
YOU KNOW HOW MUCH HOW MUCH DOES
THE STATE SORT OF PUSH AND KIND
OF WEARS FEDERAL MONEY GOING TO
BE PUSHING THINGS AND WORK IN
THE STATE KIND OF PRIORITIZE ITS
RESOURCES? UM GIVEN SOME OF THE
PHOTO, FEDERAL MONEY THAT'S
COMING IN. THANKS I DON'T WANT
TO BELIEVE IN THAT ANYMORE.
WE'LL GET DEEPER. BUT I KNOW
SOME MEMBERS BURR AND WOULD HAD
A QUESTION. UM I'LL GO DOWN HERE
AND BACK UP. THANK YOU FOR BEING
HERE TODAY. UH RICK CHAVEZ VERY
REPRESENT ASSEMBLY DISTRICT 51.
THANK YOU FOR THE REPORT. I
THOUGHT IT WAS REALLY
INSTRUCTIVE AND HELPFUL. UM ONE
OF THE THINGS I NOTED, THOUGH,
IS THE REPORT FOCUSES A LOT ON
THE REDUCTIONS THAT ARE REQUIRED
TO MEET OUR CLIMATE GOALS FOR
BOTH 2030 AND 2045. UM WHAT I
DIDN'T SEE. AND I WAS WONDERING
IF YOU LOOKED AT WAS, UM YOU
KNOW, A LOT OF THE SCOPING PLAN
ASSUMES THAT WE'RE GOING TO BE
MOVING TO ELECTRIFICATION. WE'VE
GOT ASSUMPTIONS ABOUT WHEN
OFFSHORE WIND WOULD BE COMING ON
BOARD AND OTHER WIND RESOURCES
AS WELL AS ADDITIONAL SOLAR
RESOURCES. UM, YOU KNOW, TO THE
EXTENT THAT WERE MOVING TOWARDS
ELECTRIFICATION AND OTHER
CLEANER. UM LEADER. EMISSION
SOURCES. UM DID YOU LOOK AT ALL
ABOUT AND ANALYZE IT ALL ABOUT
WHETHER OR NOT WE'RE SORT OF ON
TRACK ON THE ENERGY SUPPLY SIDE
, ONE OF THE THINGS I'VE BEEN
REALLY NERVOUS ABOUT IS THAT WE
HAVE THESE ASSUMPTIONS ABOUT
WHEN WE'RE GONNA GET TO FIVE
GIGAWATTS OF OFFSHORE WIND AND
ANOTHER 25 GIGAWATTS. AND IT
SEEMS TO BE THAT THERE ARE HUGE
CHALLENGES TO GET THEIR BUILDING
PORTS ENTITLING PORTS. WE HAVE
ISSUES WITH PROCUREMENT, AND I'M
WONDERING IF TO EXTEND YOU
LOOKED AT SORT OF SOME OF THESE
THINGS THAT ARE REQUIRED TO
PROVIDE THE ELECTRICITY THAT WE
NEED OR THE VARIOUS SCENARIOS,
ALTERNATIVE SCENARIOS THAT YOU
SORT OF LAID OUT. UH THAT THAT'S
A GOOD QUESTION. IT'S NOT
SOMETHING WE SPENT A LOT OF TIME
LOOKING AT HIM, AND I WILL SAY
THERE. I BELIEVE THERE IS SOME
DISCUSSION IN THE SCOPING PLAN
AROUND A LOT OF THOSE ISSUES,
AND I THINK THERE'S A CLEAR
RECOGNITION THAT UM, YOU KNOW,
TO ACHIEVE SOME OF THESE GOALS
AND ACHIEVE THIS VISION. THERE'S
GOING TO BE A LOT OF WORK THAT
NEEDS TO BE DONE ON KIND OF THE
ELECTRICITY SUPPLY. THINK SUPPLY
SIDE OF THINGS AND MAKING SURE
THAT WE HAVE ADEQUATE
ELECTRICITY SUPPLY. UM CERTAINLY
, BUDGET ACTIONS THAT HAVE BEEN
TAKEN IN RECENT YEARS TO TRY TO
SHORE THAT UP. UM AND SO I THINK
IT'S AN IMPORTANT KIND OF
ONGOING ISSUE TO CONTINUE TO
LOOK AT AND I THINK YOU KNOW THE
ADMINISTRATION, THE LEGISLATURE
HAVE BEEN SPENDING A LOT OF
TIME. I'M AND RESOURCES TRYING
TO TRYING TO SHORE THAT UP AND
LOOK AT IT, BUT IT'S YOU KNOW,
GIVEN A LOT OF THE KIND OF
ASSUMPTIONS AROUND ELECTORAL
ELECTRIFICATION FOR VEHICLES
LIKE YOU SAID, AND FOR HOME
HEATING, UM AND THINGS LIKE
THAT, THEN IT'S GOING TO BE.
IT'S GOING TO BE A MAJOR
CHALLENGE, AND I THINK YOU KNOW
ON THE ELECTRICITY SUPPLY SIDE
OF THINGS. I KNOW THERE'S UM YOU
KNOW, THE CHAIR AND CARVED MIGHT
KIND OF TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT
JUST KIND OF ON THE
INFRASTRUCTURE DEVELOPMENT SIDE
OF THINGS. I THINK THERE'S YOU
KNOW THINGS THAT UM, YEAH,
THAT'S KIND OF A BIG CHALLENGE.
THERE'S A LOT OF BUILD OUT
THAT'S GOING TO BE REQUIRED FOR
KIND OF PRODUCING ALL THIS CLEAN
ELECTRICITY, AND THAT'S AN
IMPORTANT AREA TO FOCUS ON OVER
THE NEXT YEARS AND DECADES.
THANK YOU. SOMEWHERE IN WOOD.
THANK YOU. AND THANK YOU VERY
MUCH FOR YOUR PRESENTATION. I'LL
GO. GO BACK TO YOUR PAGE FOR
THERE. YOU'VE GOT THREE COMMENTS
THERE. NO CLEAR DESCRIPTION OF
WHAT POLICY APPROACHES WILL BE
USED TO REDUCE EMISSIONS. UM THE
REDUCTION OF PER CAPITA DRIVING.
IT'S TOUGH FOR PEOPLE IN RURAL
DISTRICTS LIKE MYSELF, MR DALI,
UM GOT TO TRAVEL LONG DISTANCES
PRETTY HARD FOR US TO DO THAT.
CARBON CAPTURE AND STORAGE IS
EMERGING TECHNOLOGY VERY
EXPENSIVE? UM, AT SCALE. UM UM
AND THEN THE HEATING OR HEATING
ELECTRICITY. THE CHALLENGES
THERE WE SAW LAST SUMMER, UM,
CALL FOR US TO REDUCE OUR POWER
CONSUMPTION WHEN IT WAS REALLY
HOT IN SEPTEMBER. UM THAT ISN'T
THIS THE CHALLENGE OF PRODUCING
ENERGY AS A TRANS HUGE CHALLENGE
WITH TRANSMISSION AND
INTERCONNECTION. A LOT OF THESE
ALL ELECTRIC HOUSEHOLDS ARE
LAUDABLE GOALS AND IMPORTANT
GOALS FOR US, BUT WE'RE FINDING
THAT UTILITIES ARE HAVING
DELAYED TIME AND HOOKING THESE
UP, TURNING THEM ON AND SO AS
YOU LOOK AT SCOPING PLANS HERE.
I JUST WONDER ARE WE AT TIMES,
LOOKING DOING SOME OF THE MOST
COST EFFECTIVE? WHAT WAYS OF
DOING THIS? UM, OBVIOUSLY A
HUGE, UM EMPHASIS ON REDUCING
EMISSIONS AND I THINK THAT'S
CRITICALLY IMPORTANT. UM, BUT
WHAT ABOUT PROTECTING THOSE
REDUCTIONS AND WHAT? I DON'T SEE
ANY REFERENCE TO HEAR. UM IS THE
IMPACT OF WILDFIRES AND HOW THAT
HOW THAT IN MANY, YOU KNOW, JUST
GETTING THE NUMBERS ON WHAT? HOW
MUCH GREENHOUSE GASSES WERE
LIBERATED FROM WILDFIRES WAS
CHALLENGING. UH UM AND THERE WAS
RESISTANCE TO THAT. UM SO WE
DON'T SO IF WE'RE GOING TO SPEND
ALL THIS MONEY TO REDUCE
EMISSIONS, AND WE'RE NOT GOING
TO PROTECT THOSE REDUCTIONS BY
OTHER LOW TECH LOW COST METHODS.
HOW ARE WE EVER GOING TO GET
AHEAD OF THIS? AND SO? CAN YOU
TALK ABOUT REFERENCES TO
WILDFIRES AND THOSE IN THE
CHALLENGE. YOU KNOW, I THINK
ABOUT THAT IS WE OFTEN HEAR FROM
COMMUNITIES DURING, YOU KNOW,
DURING WILDFIRE, YOU KNOW, LIKE
SAN FRANCISCO AND OTHER URBAN
AREAS. THEY DON'T LIKE THE
WILDFIRE SMOKE. THERE IT OFTEN
COMES. AT THE WORST TIME OF THE
YEAR IN THE SUMMERTIME AND IN
THE FALL WHEN OTHER YOU KNOW
STATIONARY SOURCES OF EMISSIONS.
ARE ARE ALRIGHT, HIGH AT THEIR
PEAK. AND SO WE COMPLICATE THAT
BY ADDING WILDFIRE SMOKE TO
THERE, AND I JUST DON'T SEE
ANYTHING IN HERE. THAT REALLY
ADDRESSES SOME REALLY BASIC.
THINGS THAT COULD PROTECT THOSE
EMISSION REDUCTIONS. ALL RIGHT,
UM. I MEAN, THERE IS SOME
ADDITIONAL MODELING THAT WAS
INCLUDED IN THIS SCOPING PLAN
RELATED TO NATURAL AND WORKING
LANDS AGAIN. THE FOCUS WAS AND
THAT YOU KNOW, INCLUDES
WILDFIRES AND FORESTS, OF
COURSE, ARE A HUGE PIECE OF
THAT. UM, AND THE LARGE FOCUS
WAS ON KIND OF THIS. THOSE 2045
GOALS AND SORT OF LONG TERM.
WHAT ARE WE DOING WITH OUR KIND
OF CARBON STORAGE AND OUR
FORESTS? AND HOW DO WE EXPECT
THAT TO CHANGE OVER TIME? AND IF
WE WERE TO BE MORE AGGRESSIVE
AND SOME OF OUR KIND OF FOREST
MANAGEMENT STRATEGIES TO REDUCE
THOSE EMISSIONS, WHAT KIND OF AN
IMPACT CAN WE HAVE? AND SO
THERE'S SOME OF THAT INFORMATION
IN THERE AND SOME OF THAT LONG
TERM PLANNING, AND I THINK FOR A
LOT OF THE FOREST MANAGEMENT
STUFF. IT IS IMPORTANT TO LOOK
AT KIND OF THE CARBON EMISSIONS
OVER A LONG TERM SCALE. BUT
THERE TO YOUR I THINK TO YOUR
POINT. THERE ARE A LOT OF
REASONS TO KIND OF FOCUS ON WILD
FIRES AND FOREST MANAGEMENT,
ESPECIALLY ON KIND OF THE LOCAL
AIR POLLUTION SIDE OF THINGS.
UM, I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT WAS A
THINK THAT WAS PROBABLY
REFERENCED IN THE PLAN HERE,
BUT, UM WAS NOT SORT OF A KEY
EMPHASIS AS KIND OF A KIND OF
SHORT TERM CLIMATE CHANGE
STRATEGY. AND SO I THINK YOU
KNOW WHEN THINKING ABOUT KIND OF
WILDFIRE AND FOREST MANAGEMENT
STUFF, IT'S REALLY SORT OF, YOU
KNOW, KEEPING IN MIND THE CARBON
CARBON EMISSIONS, BUT ALSO OF
COURSE, THE UM YOU KNOW THE
LOCAL AIR POLLUTION AND JUST
PUBLIC SAFETY ISSUES THAT ARE
REALLY KIND OF, YOU KNOW, VERY
IMPORTANT SORT OF NEAR TERM NEAR
TERM ISSUES THAT DESERVE FOCUS,
AND IN SOME CASES, THERE MIGHT
BE A BALANCE OR TRADE OFF.
THAT'S THAT'S NEEDED TO STRIKE
AND KIND OF PROTECTING ONE OR
EMPHASIZING ONE OVER ANOTHER.
THANK YOU FOR THAT. I JUST THINK
YOU KNOW WHEN WE HAVE THESE
MASSIVE FIRES, WE ALSO HAVE HUGE
EXPENDITURES AS A STATE TO
SUPPRESS FIRES. PROTECT PROPERTY
. UM MEANWHILE, MASSIVE AMOUNTS
OF GREENHOUSE GASSES OR
LIBERATED INTO THE ENVIRONMENT
AND IT JUST IT. YOU KNOW, THEN,
AFTER THE FACT WHICH I DID I SEE
. YOU KNOW WHEN THEY TALK ABOUT
TALK ABOUT RED REDUCTIONS IN
METHANE, UM AND, YOU KNOW,
UNHARVESTED TREES THAT HAVE DIED
IN FIRES BECOME SOURCES OF
METHANE AS WELL. I DON'T SEE
THAT REFERENCE HERE. MAYBE IT'S
NOT A HUGE NUMBER. I DON'T KNOW
, BUT THAT BUT I KNOW THAT WHEN
TREES DEGRADE IN THE FOREST,
THEY REDUCE THEY THEY THEY
LIBERATE METHANE AS WELL. SO,
UM, SO I GUESS. I HOPE THAT WHEN
WE START LOOKING AT THESE THINGS
THAT WERE NOT BEING YOU KNOW.
THAT WE'RE THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT
THE BEST RETURN ON OUR
INVESTMENTS AND NOT WHICH RATHER
THAN THE SHINY OBJECT, WHICH IS
REALLY COOL. UM AND IT'S AN
EMERGING TECHNOLOGY. BUT THERE'S
SOME BASIC THINGS THAT COULD BE
DONE. POSSIBLY THAT THAT MIGHT
MAKE A HUGE DIFFERENCE FOR US,
AND I DON'T WANT TO SEE THAT
LEFT OUT. BUT I DON'T SEE A LOT
OF REFERENCE TO THAT. SO YEAH, I
MEAN, AND I THINK MAYBE JUST TO
EMPHASIZE AND I THINK SORT OF
AGREE WITH THE POINT. I MEAN,
YEAH, PART OF THE I THINK PART
OF THE IDEA HERE IS TO TRY TO
LOOK AT THE OPTIONS THAT WE HAVE
AVAILABLE AND FIND THE ONES THAT
WE CAN KIND OF ACHIEVE OUR GOALS
AT THE LEAST POSSIBLE COST,
WHICH I THINK IS SORT OF A
BASELINE. THAT'S THAT'S REALLY
WHAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR, AND I
THINK THAT'S KIND OF GETS TO THE
CORE OF WHAT WE FEEL LIKE IS IN
MANY CASES KIND OF MISSING FROM
THIS, AT LEAST IN TERMS OF
MEETING OUR 2030 GOALS IS HAVING
KIND OF A SUITE OF OPTIONS PLAN
OR AT THE VERY LEAST, SORT OF A
SUITE OF POLICY OPTIONS
AVAILABLE AND UNDERSTANDING WHAT
THE COSTS ARE OF THOSE DIFFERENT
OPTIONS AND WHAT THE TRADE OFFS
MIGHT BE. AH, SIMILAR
MURATSUCHI. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
MR. CHAIR. I UM, WANT TO THANK
THE LAO FOR THIS. UH WHAT I
THINK IS GOING TO BE A REFERENCE
POINT FOR OUR SCOPING PLAN. UH
DEBATE GOING FORWARD, UM. FOR
THE NONPARTISAN LEGISLATIVE
ANALYST'S OFFICE TO PUT OUT THIS
CLEAR AND CONCISE, SCOPING PLAN
ANALYSIS THAT CONCLUDES THAT WE
ARE NOT ON TRACK TO MEET OUR
2030 GOALS, MUCH LESS THE 48. A
GREENHOUSE GAS REDUCTION GOALS
THAT. OH THAT THE NEW GREENHOUSE
GAS TARGET OF 48% BELOW THE 1990
LEVEL. IS THAT A FAIR ASSESSMENT
OF THE PRIMARY MESSAGE OF YOUR
SCOPING PLAN ANALYSIS IS YEAH, I
THINK IT'S BOTH THAT IT DOESN'T
APPEAR THAT WE'RE ON TRACK. BUT
ALSO IT DOESN'T APPEAR THAT WE
HAVE KIND OF A CLEAR PLAN FOR
HOW WE WILL GET ON TRACK AND
SORT OF AND GET TO THOSE GOALS.
UM AND YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT EASY.
THOSE ARE THOSE ARE DIFFICULT
POLICY DECISIONS, AND THOSE ARE
AMBITIOUS GOALS THAT ARE GOING
TO REQUIRE SIGNIFICANT
REDUCTIONS, BUT THERE'S ALSO
LIMITED AMOUNT OF TIME AND SO
YOU KNOW, TRYING TO HAVE A REAL
CONVERSATION AROUND WHAT
SPECIFIC POLICY APPROACHES WE
THINK IS AN IMPORTANT STEP THAT
NEEDS TO BE TAKEN. OKAY? AND YOU
KNOW WHEN OF YOUR MAIN, UM
POINTS. UM THAT YOU'RE RAISING
IS THAT THE SCOPING PLAN LACKS
IN DETAILS IN TERMS OF SPECIFIC
POLICY RECOMMENDATIONS. UH ON
HOW YOU KNOW, OR AT LEAST IN
OPTIONS FOR THE LEGISLATURE TO
CONSIDER AND HOW TO REACH OUR
2030 GOALS. UM INSTEAD OF RELIES
PRIMARILY AS YOU DESCRIBE IT ON
ASSUMPTIONS AND ONE OF THE
ASSUMPTIONS THAT YOU, UM
IDENTIFYING YOUR ANALYSIS IS
THAT THE PLAN ASSUMES A 25%
REDUCTION AND PER CAPITA VEHICLE
MILES TRAVELED BY 2030. IS THAT
CORRECT? YES OKAY. AND SO. SO
THE PLAN, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, FOR
ALL CALIFORNIANS TO REDUCE OUR
VEHICLE. MILES TRAVELED BY A BY
1/4. IN SEVEN YEARS. I MEAN,
THAT SEEMS LIKE AN INCREDIBLY UH
HUH. AMBITIOUS ASSUMPTION
WITHOUT ANY DETAILS AS TO HOW TO
GET THERE. YES I THINK THAT'S A
FAIR CHARACTERIZATION. OKAY? AND
SO, FOR EXAMPLE, YOU KNOW, I'M
LOOKING AT THE TWO
TRANSPORTATION CHAIR IS ON THE
OTHER SIDE OF THE DAIS. UH, YOU
KNOW AN ISSUE THAT THAT SENATOR
ALLEN AND I HAD BEEN WORKING ON
TWO TO EXTEND THE, UH, THE LOS
ANGELES METRO. YOU KNOW, FOR
THREE MILES FROM NORTH REDONDO
BEACH TO TORRENTS, AND YOU KNOW
IT. ORIGINALLY IT WAS PROPOSED
TO BE PART OF THE 28 BY 28 TO
HAVE THAT UP AND RUNNING SO THAT
ALL THE FOLKS AND IN OUR
DISTRICTS IN THE LOS ANGELES
COUNTY SOUTH BANK AND CAN GET
OUT OF THE CARS AND TAKE THE
METRO TO GET TO THE AIRPORT. YOU
KNOW THAT THAT IS SOMETHING THAT
WE HAVE SPECIFICALLY BEEN
FOCUSING ON AS A CONCRETE PLAN
TO GET PEOPLE OUT OF THE CARS AS
, UH, YOU KNOW, CHAIR FRIEDMAN
HAS BEEN CHAMPIONING. UH UM, YOU
KNOW, AND TO GET THEM ON THE
PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION AND YET
YOU KNOW, NOW WE'RE HEARING WHAT
2030 2032 FOR THAT THREE MILE
EXTENSION. SO YOU KNOW, I MEAN,
I JUST WANT TO RAISE THAT, AS
ONE EXAMPLE OF HOW YOU KNOW WE
HAVE BEEN WORKING ON THE
SPECIFIC AH POLICY ACTIONS THAT
ARE NECESSARY TO GET PEOPLE OUT
OF THEIR CARS. AND YET WE JUST
CAN'T SEEM TO ACCOMPLISH THEM.
AND SO THAT JUST RAISES MY
OVERALL CONCERN, YOU KNOW, I
MEAN, I I'M AS GUILTY AS ANYONE
ON THIS DIETS OF, UH OF
INTRODUCING BILLS AND PASSING
BILLS, TOO. TO SET AMBITIOUS
GOALS. BUT, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, IT
SEEMS LIKE YOU KNOW, IT SEEMS TO
ME LIKE THIS SCOPING PLAN IS IT
IS. DOESN'T APPEAR, UM. TO BE
GROUNDED IN THE REALITIES THAT
WE'RE FACING. AH AND IN TERMS OF
HOW WE CAN GET TO OUR AMBITIOUS
CLIMATE GOALS, UM. ONE OF YOUR
MAIN POINTS WAS WAS THAT, UH,
WAS THAT THE CAP AND TRADE? WELL
FIRST OF ALL, DOES A SCOPING
PLAN IDENTIFY LIKE IN THE 2017
SCOPING PLANET IDENTIFIED THAT
CAP AND TRADE WAS TO ACCOUNT FOR
50% OF EMISSION REDUCTIONS.
THAT'S THE 2022 SCOPING PLAN. UH
IDENTIFY A PERCENTAGE OF THE
EMISSIONS. UH, THAT, UH CAP AND
TRADE IS TO ACCOUNT FOR. NO, IT
DOESN'T HAVE THAT SAME TYPE OF
ANALYSIS WHERE WE CAN SEE AT
LEAST THE EXPECTATION FOR AROUND
WHAT THE HOW MANY EMISSION
REDUCTIONS AND WHAT PERCENT OF
THE MISSION REDUCTIONS WILL COME
FROM CAP AND TRADE. OF COURSE
THAT CAN CHANGE. OVER TIME AND
THINGS CHANGE AND YOU KNOW THE
PERCENTAGE IN THE ROLE THAT CAP
AND TRADE WILL BE PLAYING CAN
CHANGE. BUT EVEN AS AS KIND OF
PART OF A PLANNING EXERCISE THAT
THAT ANALYSIS WASN'T PART OF
THIS, UM AT THIS PLAN, OKAY? AND
ONE OF YOUR MAIN POINTS IS THAT
GIVEN THE OVER ABUNDANCE OF
ALLOWANCES OR POLLUTION CREDITS
THAT ARE OUT THERE, UH, THAT IT
THERE'S SO MANY POLLUTION
CREDITS BANKED THAT IT'S NOT
GOING TO SEND UP THE NECESSARY
PRICE SIGNAL FOR US TO HAVE THE
NECESSARY MISSION REDUCTIONS. IS
THAT CORRECT? YEAH UM, I THINK
THAT'S THAT'S THE KIND OF BOTTOM
LINE THAT WE'VE COME TO, AT
LEAST AS THE PROGRAM IS
CURRENTLY STRUCTURED. UM AND, UM
, YEAH, YEAH, SO THERE'S YEAH,
THERE'S I THINK YOU'VE
IDENTIFIED REALLY THE MAIN
ISSUE, AT LEAST THROUGH 2030.
ASSUMING THE PROGRAM IS AN
EXTENDED AND THERE AREN'T ANY
MODIFICATIONS, OKAY? SO. LAST
YEAR. I HAD A BILL ASSEMBLY BILL
27 93. THAT WAS A SIMPLE
TRANSPARENCY. MEASURE TWO TO
REQUIRE THE A R B TO CONDUCT AN
ANNUAL REVIEW OF CAP AND TROY TO
EVALUATE THE SUPPLY OF
ALLOWANCES AND CARBON OFFSETS
AND TO ADOPT PUBLIC BANKING
METRICS. TO TRACK THE NUMBER OF
UNUSED COMPLIANCE. UH,
INSTRUMENTS LIKE ALLOWANCES AND
OFFSETS CURRENTLY, DO WE HAVE
THAT KIND OF TRANSPARENCY COMING
OUT OF THE R B. UM SO A RB DOES
HAVE KIND OF A REGULAR PROCESS
FOR TRACKING COMPLIANCE
INSTRUMENTS BY YEAR. UM IN TERMS
OF KIND OF TRYING TO SUMMARIZE
THAT IN TERMS OF THE SIZE OF THE
BANK, UM, THERE'S NO, I DON'T
THINK IT'S THERE'S SORT OF
REGULAR PROCESS CARB HAS IN THE
PAST ISSUED REPORTS, UH, IN PART
, I THINK IN RESPONSE TO
LEGISLATIVE REQUESTS OR REQUESTS
FROM THE INDEPENDENT EMISSION
MARKET ADVISORY COMMITTEE TO
KIND OF QUANTIFY WHAT THE SIZE
OF THAT BANK IS. AND SO THERE
HAVE BEEN REPORTS ISSUED IN THE
PAST. I BELIEVE THEY HAVE
COMMITTED TO ISSUING A REPORT AT
THE END OF THIS YEAR. UM BUT I
DON'T. THERE'S NOT THAT I'M
AWARE OF KIND OF SORT OF SET IN
STONE REQUIREMENT AROUND DOING
THAT EVERY SINGLE YEAR. SO TO
ADDRESS THE MAIN POINT OF MAKING
SURE THAT WE DON'T HAVE TOO MANY
POLLUTION CREDITS OUT THERE TO
YOU KNOW, TO NOT BRING. UH DOWN
THE TOTAL EMISSION. UH UM UM,
REDUCTIONS NECESSARY FOR US TO
MEET OUR CLIMATE GOALS. WILL IT
ADVANCE OUR CAUSE OF MEETING OUR
CLIMATE GOALS IF WE HAVE THAT
KIND OF REQUIREMENT EVERY YEAR
THAT THE AIR B WAS TO ASSESS THE
NUMBER OF ALLOWANCES AND OFFSETS
AND WHETHER THAT IS IN LINE WITH
OUR MEETING ARE ARE, UM
GREENHOUSE GAS REDUCTION GOALS.
I THINK GREATER TRANSPARENT,
GIVEN THE MAGNITUDE OF THE
ISSUES HERE AND THE ISSUES AND
PROBLEMS WE'VE IDENTIFIED IN
THIS REPORT MORE TRANSPARENCY
AROUND KIND OF WHERE WE ARE, UM
, AND MORE FREQUENT KIND OF
CHECK INS ON WHERE WE ARE CAN BE
IMPORTANT, I THINK UH UM. IT'S
ALSO IMPORTANT JUST TO KEEP IN
MIND HAVING THAT INFORMATION, OF
COURSE, DOESN'T SOLVE THE
PROBLEM, AND IT DOESN'T
NECESSARILY EVEN TELL YOU WHERE
YOU'RE GOING TO BE GOING FORWARD
, BUT AT LEAST HAVING MORE
INFORMATION ON KIND OF WHERE WE
ARE RIGHT NOW, OR AT LEAST IN
THE RECENT IN RECENT HISTORY, UH
, CAN BE VERY HELPFUL FOR KIND
OF INFORMING SOME OF THESE
DISCUSSIONS TO HELP DRIVE HOME
THE POINT THAT THERE ARE ALREADY
TOO MANY ALLOWANCES. BANKED UH,
FOR US TO REALISTICALLY BE ON
TRACK TO MEET OUR 23 30 JAYSH
EAGLES. YEAH, I MEAN, I THINK
IT'S THIS IS MAYBE SORT OF MORE
OF A NUANCED POINT. I THINK SORT
OF THE SIZE OF THAT NUMBER THAT
YOU MIGHT RECEIVE FROM SOME OF
THOSE REPORTS. IT DOESN'T GET
YOU ALL THE WAY TO SORT OF
SAYING WHAT THAT IMPLIES, FOR
YOU KNOW WHERE YOU ARE GOING TO
BE IN 2030 OR 2045. BUT IT IS AN
IN OUR VIEW. I THINK AN
IMPORTANT INPUT TO THAT
CONVERSATION AND CAN CERTAINLY
INFORM A LOT OF THOSE
DISCUSSIONS. ALL RIGHT. THANK
YOU VERY MUCH, MR. THANK YOU, UM
AND LET'S GO TO SOME OF THEM.
MATHIS. THANK YOU, MR CHAIR. UM
ONE WORD. HYDROGEN BUT WE'RE
TALKING ABOUT REDUCING EMISSIONS
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT DOING ALL
THESE OTHER THINGS. WE'RE NOT
TALKING ABOUT HYDROGEN, AND
THAT'S A PROBLEM. BECAUSE IT'S
THE ONE THING OUT HERE, THAT IT
FOR MY COLLEAGUES AND OTHER
AREAS. THEY MIGHT WANT TO BE
GETTING PEOPLE OUT OF CARS, BUT
IN AREAS LIKE MINE YOU'RE KIND
OF DEPENDENT ON YOUR CAR. UM IN
THE AGRICULTURAL SECTOR, YOU'RE
DEPENDING ON HEAVIER EQUIPMENT.
100 FITS THE BILL. IT'S THE ONE
THING THAT'S APPLICABLE AND IT'S
THE ONE THING WE'RE NOT TALKING
ABOUT ENOUGH. SO AS WE MOVE
FORWARD, WE NEED TO MAKE SURE
THAT HYDROGEN IS PART OF THE
DISCUSSION. UM WE KNOW THIS
REDUCES EMISSIONS. WE KNOW THIS
IS A SOLUTION ALL THE OTHER
COUNTRIES AROUND THE WORLD. ARE
HEADED OUT AHEAD OF US. IT NEEDS
TO BE PART OF WHAT'S BEING
DISCUSSED AND PART OF THE
OPTIONS SO I WOULD REALLY
APPRECIATE. I'M SURE A LOT OF MY
COLLEAGUES AND THOSE THAT AREN'T
HERE WOULD LOVE TO SEE HOW THE
HYDROGEN SOLUTION COULD BE
WRITTEN INTO A LOT OF THIS.
BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, I'M READING
THIS AND YOU'VE GOT 80% OF NEW
HEATING VENTILATION. AIR
CONDITIONERS. WATER HEATERS FOR
SALE WILL BE ELECTRIC, BUT YOU
CAN ALSO USE HYDROGEN GAS TO
HEAT AND TO DO THESE THINGS AND
TO MOVE FORWARD THAT IS AN
OPTION. THAT'S NOT BEING
DISCUSSED ENOUGH. WHEN IT COMES
TO FUEL. LIQUID HYDROGEN
HYDROGEN FUEL CELL IS AN OPTION
, ESPECIALLY FOR HEAVY EQUIPMENT
FOR THE TRANSPORTATION SECTOR
FOR FREIGHT AND GOODS MOVEMENT.
YET. WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT IT.
SO AS WE MOVE FORWARD AS WE LOOK
AT OUR OPTIONS, AND FRANKLY
WE'RE ABOUT TO MISS A HUGE
WINDOW. ON BEING ABLE TO BUY
INTO SOME OF THESE PROGRAMS. AND
WE NEED TO STOP PICKING
FAVORITES AND STARTED HAVING THE
HARD DISCUSSIONS. ON MAKING
THESE VIABLE OPTIONS. BRINGING
THEM TO THE TABLE SO WE CAN
ACTUALLY GET TO OUR CARBON
GOALS. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. UM
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FROM THE
MEMBERS AT THIS POINT? I THINK
WE'RE GOING TO DO BECAUSE I
DON'T WANT TO KEEP CHAIR
RANDOLPH. WAITING TOO LONG IS
HAVE OUR SECOND PANEL COME UP,
UH, DELIVER SOME BRIEF REMARKS,
UM, AND THEN MOVE STRAIGHT TO
THE CHAIR. AND THEN MAYBE YOU
CAN STICK AROUND FOR IF WE HAVE
FOLLOW UP QUESTIONS FOR
AFTERWARDS THAT ALL RIGHT? OH UM
, YOU CAN JUST TAKE A SEAT IN
THE FRONT ROW OR WHEREVER YOU
LIKE. LET'S AH YEAH, LET'S GO.
LET'S BRING MR CULLEN WARD AND
MR MR ROGER STUTTER. UM SO
MEMBERS, THESE OUR OUR
APPOINTEES TO THE INDEPENDENT
EMISSIONS MARKET ADVISORY
COMMITTEE. UM MISS ROGER CENTER
IS THE ASSEMBLY'S APPOINTEE, MR
COLIN WARD'S THE SENATE'S
APPOINTEE, AND THIS IS A AN
ADVISORY COMMITTEE FOR THE AIR
RESOURCES BOARD. THAT LOOKS,
PARTICULARLY AT THE CAP AND
TRADE CARBON MARKET PIECE OF THE
BROADER SCOPING PLAN, BUT, UM,
THAT FURTHER ADO APPRECIATE YOUR
YOUR SERVICE ON BEHALF OF BOTH
HOUSES. UM AND, UH PLEASE TAKE
IT AWAY. THANK YOU. MR CHAIRMAN
AND MEMBERS OF THE VARIOUS
COMMITTEES WILL BE BRIEF. WE
RECOGNIZE THAT WE'RE STANDING
BETWEEN YOU AND THE CARB CHAIR.
A FEW REMARKS FROM MY
PERSPECTIVE JUST TO ENDORSE. I
THINK THE LEGISLATIVE ANALYST'S
OFFICE REPORT HAS DONE A VERY
THOROUGH JOB, IDENTIFYING SOME
OF THE BIG PICTURE CONCERNS AND
ISSUES, ESPECIALLY THE LACK OF
BALANCE BETWEEN THE CAP AND
TRADE PROGRAM, WHICH WAS IN
PREVIOUS PLANS IDENTIFIED AS THE
BIGGEST SOURCE OF OUR EMISSION
REDUCTION PLANS. VERSUS OTHER
REGULATORY MEASURES VERSUS THE
PUBLIC INVESTMENTS THAT BUDGET
COMMITTEES WILL NEED TO BE
THINKING ABOUT, UM, THAT LACK OF
INFORMATION IS IMPORTANT TO TALK
ABOUT, AND HOPEFULLY WE CAN GET
SOME CLARITY ON THAT GOING
FORWARD. UM YOU'VE HEARD SOME
CRITICAL THINGS, WE'LL ADD A FEW
MORE ABOUT THE SITUATION WE'RE
IN. BUT BEFORE I DO THAT, I JUST
WANT TO CALL OUT. WE'RE TALKING
ABOUT SOME OF THE CHALLENGES IN
REGULATING ESPECIALLY STATIONARY
SOURCES WHERE I THINK THE STATE
AND CARBON PARTICULAR CAN DO
MORE TO TELL US A CLEAR VIEW
ABOUT HOW TO MANAGE THESE
ISSUES. THE SAME TIME CARB HAS
BEEN DOING EXTRAORDINARILY
IMPORTANT WORK. UM IN IN
CLEANING UP OUR MOBILE SOURCES,
OUR CARS AND TRUCKS IN THE
STANDARDS SET THERE, SO I JUST
WANTED TO CALL OUT THAT'S AN
AREA. I THINK WHERE THINGS HAVE
A LOT MORE CLARITY AND ARGUABLY
QUITE A BIT MORE SUCCESS THAN
SOME OF THE CHALLENGES MENTIONED
HERE. UM THE INDEPENDENT
EMISSIONS MARKET ADVISORY
COMMITTEE JUST PUT OUT ITS FIFTH
ANNUAL REPORT, WHERE A STATUTORY
BODY CREATED AS PART OF THE 2017
CAP AND TRADE EXTENSION BILL TO
PROVIDE ANNUAL REPORTING OVER
THE COURSE OF FIVE YEARS OF
ANNUAL REPORTS. WE'VE IDENTIFIED
SOME OF THE SAME ISSUES YOU
HEARD DR BROWN SPEAK ABOUT.
WE'VE ALSO DEVELOPED VARIOUS
IDEAS FOR HOW TO ADDRESS SOME OF
THE TECHNICAL CHALLENGES THAT
COME UP IF POLICYMAKERS WERE
WANTING TO MAKE THE CAP AND
TRADE PROGRAM MORE STRINGENT AND
MORE EFFECTIVE, WHICH IS ONE OF
THE TOOLS WE HAVE AT OUR
DISPOSAL TO GET BACK ON TRACK
AND TO HELP CLOSE THE GAP. ÁP
YOU'VE HEARD AN IDENTIFIED UM,
THIS YEAR'S REPORT ALSO TALKS
ABOUT THE POST 2030 LEGAL
AUTHORITY FOR THE PROGRAM. THE
EXPLICIT LEGAL AUTHORITY
CURRENTLY RUNS THROUGH 2030, AND
WE'VE RECOMMENDED THAT
POLICYMAKERS CLARIFY THE FUTURE
OF THAT PROGRAM AS WELL, WHICH
IS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT MIGHT
ADDRESS SOME OF THE CONCERNS
YOU'VE HEARD WITH RESPECT TO
THAT PROGRAM. BUT EXTENDING THE
PROGRAM ISN'T A SIMPLE FIX. IT
DOESN'T RESOLVE A LOT OF THE
ISSUES. LET ME CALL IT BRIEFLY
THREE OF THE ISSUES THAT ARE
LIKELY TO BE RELEVANT ONE IS
WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THE ISSUE,
HAVING LOTS OF ALLOWANCES, EXTRA
ALLOWANCES RELATIVE TO OUR GOALS
, SO THERE NEEDS TO BE
PREDICTABLE RESOLUTION TO THAT
ISSUE. UM THE I M F HAS ALSO
IDENTIFIED THE LARGE ROLE OF
CARBON OFFSETS IN THAT PROGRAM.
THERE'S BEEN SIGNIFICANT
QUESTIONS RAISED ABOUT THE
ENVIRONMENTAL INTEGRITY OF THOSE
CREDITS. UM AND THE THIRD ISSUE
I WANTED TO CALL OUT IS WE'VE
ALSO HEARD CONCERNS FROM
ENVIRONMENTAL JUSTICE
COMMUNITIES ABOUT POLLUTION
DISPARITIES AND THINKING ABOUT
ADDRESSING THOSE DISPARITIES IN
THE DESIGN OF THE PROGRAM, WE
THINK IS AN IMPORTANT AREA TO
FOCUS ON UM THE LAST THING I'LL
SAY IS IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT CAP
AND TRADE. WE'VE HEARD ABOUT
VEHICLE MILES TRAVELED. WE'VE
HEARD ABOUT THE DIFFERENCE
BETWEEN RURAL AND URBAN
COMMUNITIES AND THEIR ABILITY TO
CONTRIBUTE TO REDUCTIONS IN
VEHICLE MILES. TRAVELED UM, I
THINK IF WE'RE TALKING SERIOUSLY
ABOUT THE SCALE OF WHAT'S
REQUIRED HERE, WE'RE GOING TO
NEED TO BUILD A LOT OF CLEAN
ENERGY. A LOT OF INFRASTRUCTURE.
WE HAVE TO TALK ABOUT TRANSIT
FUNDING. WE HAVE TO TALK ABOUT
HOUSING POLICY. SO IT'S NOT JUST
CAMP AND TRADE, BUT I THINK
GIVEN THE SIGNIFICANT ROLE
PREVIOUS PLANS HAVE CALLED FOR
WITH CAP AND TRADE, THE
AMBIGUITY AND THE CURRENT PLAN
AROUND CAP AND TRADE AND THE
POSSIBILITY TO DO A BETTER JOB
WITH THAT PROGRAM. WE HOPE THAT
THAT WILL BE ONE OF THE OPTIONS
THAT CARB AND POLICY MAKERS IN
THE LEGISLATURE WILL CONSIDER.
UM LET ME TURN OVER NOW TO MY
COLLEAGUE, CAITLIN. THANKS DANNY
. UM GOOD MORNING CHAIRS.
MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE AGAIN.
I'M CAITLIN RUDNER, ETCETERA,
AND I KNOW SOME OF YOU IN MY
CAPACITY AS CALIFORNIA DIRECTOR
ENVIRONMENTAL DEFENSE FUND, BUT
I AM HERE WITH BEFORE YOU TODAY
IS THE ASSEMBLY APPOINTEE TO A
MAC. UM I WANTED TO START BY
THANKING CARB STAFF AND
LEADERSHIP AND LAO STAFF AND
STAFF OF THIS COMMITTEE AND ALL
OF YOU FOR ALL OF THE WORK THAT
WENT INTO THE SCOPING PLAN. THE
REPORT. UM THE PREPARATION
MATERIALS FOR TODAY. I MEAN, WE
REALLY HAVE SOME WORLD CLASS
STAFF AND LEADERSHIP IN THE
STATE ON THESE ISSUES. UM I WANT
TO ECHO MANY OF THE COMMENTS
MADE BOTH BY DR BROWN. UM AND MY
I MET CALLED COLLEAGUE DANNY
COLIN WARD. I'M GOING TO ZOOM IN
JUST A LITTLE BIT ON SOME OF THE
SPECIFIC RECOMMENDATIONS IN THIS
YEAR'S IMAC REPORT THAT I THINK
WE'LL GET TO SOME OF THE ISSUES
THAT HAVE BEEN THIDA. AYE,
QUESTIONS AND THE PANEL IS SO
FAR. UM AND I SHOULD POINT OUT
THAT THESE ARE RECOMMENDATIONS
THAT, UM YOU KNOW, WE GENERALLY
THINK CARB COULD IMPLEMENT
THROUGH A REGULATORY PROCEEDING
IN THIS COMING YEAR. THESE ARE
NOT THINGS THAT WOULD
NECESSARILY REQUIRE FURTHER
LEGISLATIVE AUTHORITY. UM SO I
GUESS TO START I WANT TO SAY,
YOU KNOW, WE WERE EXTREMELY
PLEASED WITH CARBS COMMITMENT TO
ACHIEVING THE ACCELERATED 2030
GOAL, AS DESCRIBED IN THE
SCOPING PLAN THAT IS ACHIEVING
48% REDUCTIONS BELOW THE 1990
LEVEL BY 2030. UM THE I E MAC
REPORT OUTLINES HOW ACHIEVING
THIS REQUIRES A RE EVALUATION OF
ALL OUR RELEVANT PROGRAMS AS
DANNY MENTIONED, BUT ESPECIALLY
THE CAP AND TRADE PROGRAM. AND
CARB HAS RECOGNIZED THAT THE
EMISSIONS CAT NEEDS TO BE
ALIGNED WITH THAT 48% REDUCTION
GOAL. BUT THEN CARBON MUST ALSO
URGENTLY ACT TO MAKE THE
NECESSARY CHANGES TO THE PROGRAM
. SO I M AC HAS RECOMMENDED THAT
CARB PURSUE AN EXPEDITIOUS
PROCESS THAT COULD LEAD TO
PROGRAM REFORMS BEING
IMPLEMENTED IN 2024. AS OPPOSED
TO A. THAT'S A YEAR EARLIER THAN
CARBS. PRELIMINARY TIMELINE OF
IMPLEMENTATION IN 2025 UM, FROM
OUR PERSPECTIVE, A YEAR'S DELAY
MAKES IT HARDER TO ACHIEVE THAT
ACCELERATED 2030 GOAL, UM, BOTH
IN TERMS OF OPPORTUNITIES FOR
REDUCTIONS, BUT AS WELL AS
ALLEVIATING SOME UNCERTAINTY
AROUND THE PROGRAM. IN ADDITION
TO COMMENCING THE RULEMAKING
WITH SOME URGENCY, IMAC HAS SOME
PROGRAM ADJUSTMENTS, AND SOME OF
THESE HAVE BEEN TEDA ALREADY. UM
THE FIRST OF THESE IS THAT CARB
ADJUST THE ALLOWANCE SUPPLY
ENTERING THE MARKET, SO THAT
MEANS DECREASING THE ANNUAL
ALLOWANCE BUDGETS TO TIGHTEN THE
EMISSIONS CAP TO REFLECT THIS
MORE AMBITIOUS 2030 GOAL. UM AS
AS DR BROWN TEED UP A LITTLE BIT
CARVED, APPEARS TO BE
CONSIDERING THE CAP AND TRADE
PROGRAM IS THE BACKSTOP MEASURE
AS AS THE MEASURE RESPONSIBLE
FOR CLOSING THE EMISSIONS GAP
BETWEEN WHAT ALL OUR OTHER
POLICIES WILL ACCOMPLISH AND
WHERE WE NEED TO BE, AND THAT IS
A VERY APPROPRIATE WAY TO THINK
OF THE CAP AND TRADE PROGRAM.
BUT THEN IT NEEDS TO ACTUALLY BE
ALIGNED WITH WHERE WE'RE TRYING
TO GET IN 2030, AND THAT'S
THAT'S NOT CURRENTLY THE CASE
AND YET AT THE EARLIEST, WE
WON'T HAVE THOSE CHANGES
IMPLEMENTED UNTIL 2025. UM
ANOTHER DESIGN CHANGE THAT IMAC
HAS RECOMMENDED IS THE EMISSION
OR THE ADDITION OF AN EMISSIONS
CONTAINMENT RESERVE AND WITHOUT
GOING INTO A LOT OF DETAIL. THE
IDEA IS THAT ALLOWANCES ARE
REMOVED FROM THE MARKET TO
DECREASE THE AVAILABLE SUPPLY
WHEN PRICES ARE LOW, AND THE
IDEA IS THAT YOU ARE ABLE TO
CAPTURE SOME ADDITIONAL EMISSION
REDUCTIONS MORE AFFORDABLY. AND
OF COURSE, HELPED TO MODESTLY
INCREASE THE CLIMATE AMBITION OF
THE PROGRAM. AND THE FINAL
RECOMMENDATION. I WANT TO
HIGHLIGHT HERE, UM, THAT WAS WAS
ALLUDED TO IS THE INCLUSION OF
FACILITY LEVEL EMISSION CAPS IN
OVERBURDENED COMMUNITIES. UM THE
ENVIRONMENTAL JUSTICE ADVISORY
COMMITTEE AT CARB INITIALLY
RECOMMENDED THE INCLUSION OF NO
TRADING ZONES AND THE CAP AND
TRADE PROGRAM. SO I IMAX SORT OF
PICKED UP THAT IDEA TO
CONTEMPLATE HOW IT WOULD WORK
AND WITH THE TRADE OFFS, WOULD
WE BE WHAT DESIGN QUESTIONS
WOULD NEED TO BE ADDRESSED? UM
AND THIS LED US TO THE IDEA OF
FACILITY LEVEL CAPS THAT IS THAT
FACILITIES COVERED BY CAP AND
TRADE IN CERTAIN OVERBURDENED
COMMUNITIES WOULD NEED TO REDUCE
THEIR EMISSIONS IN LINE WITH THE
OVERALL EMISSIONS CAP, MEANING
THEY WOULD FORFEIT SOME
COMPLIANCE FLEXIBILITY. BUT THIS
WOULD ALSO HELP ENSURE THAT A
SPECIFIC LEVEL OF GREENHOUSE GAS
REDUCTIONS ARE ACHIEVED FROM
CERTAIN FACILITIES. ALONG WITH
CORRELATED HEALTH, HARMING LOCAL
POLLUTION. SO I AM ACT
RECOGNIZES THAT CAP AND TRADE IS
DESIGNED TO ADDRESS GLOBAL
CLIMATE POLLUTION RATHER THAN
LOCAL AIR QUALITY, BUT THE
LOCATION OF GREENHOUSE GAS
EMISSION REDUCTIONS DOES HAVE
SIGNIFICANT LOCAL HEALTH
CONSEQUENCES. SO WE THINK THIS
IS SOMETHING APPROPRIATE FOR THE
AIR B TO BE CONSIDERING AND
LASTLY, THE IMAC HAS NOT MADE
ANY FORMAL RECOMMENDATIONS ON
THE IDEA OF, UM LINKING WITH
OTHER PROGRAMS. BUT IT IS A
CONVERSATION THAT HAS COME UP IN
THE MAC MEETINGS AND OTHER
CONVERSATIONS, UM, SPECIFICALLY
WITH RESPECT TO WASHINGTON STATE
. UM WASHINGTON STATE HAS A
PROGRAM THAT'S DESIGNED TO LOOK
VERY SIMILAR TO CALIFORNIA'S BUT
NOT IDENTICAL. UM AND FROM MY
IMAX PERSPECTIVE, THIS UPCOMING
RULEMAKING AT CARB COULD BE AN
OPPORTUNITY TO SORT OF EXPLORE
SOME OF THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN
THE TWO PROGRAMS WHERE THEY CAN
OR HAVE LEARNED FROM EACH OTHER
. CONSIDER SOME OF THE BENEFITS
AND TRADEOFFS OF LINKING
PROGRAMS AND THEN, OF COURSE,
HAD THE BEST FOR THEIR
CALIFORNIA'S LEADERSHIP IN THIS
SPACE. SO THANK YOU FOR YOUR
TIME. YOUR ATTENTION, UM CAP AND
TRADE IS REALLY AN ESSENTIAL
TOOL TO MEETING OUR GREENHOUSE
GAS EMISSION GOALS. UM AND I MX
STANDS READY TO WORK WITH YOU
AND THE AIR RESOURCES BOARD TO
MAKE SURE WE ACHIEVED THAT
AMBITION. THANK YOU. THANK YOU.
THANK YOU BOTH FOR YOUR
TESTIMONY. I KNOW MEMBERS ARE
GOING TO HAVE SOME FOLLOW UP
QUESTIONS. I'M SURE BUT I DON'T
WANT TO DELAY THE CHARITY
FURTHER. SO IF YOU ALL COULD
ALSO STICK AROUND AS WELL AS DR
BROWN, UM WE APPRECIATE IT. UM
MADAM CHAIR. THANK YOU FOR YOUR
PATIENCE AND HUMBLY HIDING
BEHIND CHAIR. RANDOLPH IS A
GIANT OF CLIMATE POLICY. UH,
SENATOR WIECKOWSKI, UH, ARE ARE
EMERITUS CHAIR OF SENATE
ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY AND ONE
HAS BEEN BANGING ON THIS DRUM
FOR MANY YEARS. SO WE ARE STILL
BANGING YOUR DRUMS SER. UM
WELCOME CHAIR, RANDOLPH. UM
OKAY, SO IF YOU WILL INDULGE ME,
ONE OF THE THINGS WE WERE ASKED
TO DO WAS TO, UH, SORT OF DO OUR
A B 1 97 KIND OF REPORT ON ON
OUR CLIMATE PROGRAMS. SO I'M
GOING TO DO A FEW REMARKS JUST
TO KIND OF, YOU KNOW, GENERALLY
SET THAT STAGE AND THEN WE'LL
GET INTO THE CONVERSATION ABOUT
THE SCOPING PLAN. UM OKAY, SO
I'M GOING TO TOUCH ON THE TREND
IN OUR AIR QUALITY AND GHD
EMISSION PROGRAMS. AS I NOTED,
THAT IS A REQUIREMENT OF A B 1
97. FOCUSING ON THREE CATEGORIES
OF AIR POLLUTANTS, CRITERIA.
POLLUTANTS TOXIC AIR
CONTAMINANTS IN GREENHOUSE
GASSES. OXIDES OF NOT NOT
NITROGEN, COMMONLY KNOWN AS KNOX
ARE KEY, SMUG, FORMING CRITERIA
POLLUTANTS THAT THE STATE
CONTROLS TO PREVENT OZONE
FORMATION. THOSE EMISSIONS HAVE
DECLINED BY 70% OVER THE PAST 50
YEARS AND CONTINUE DECLINE TO
DECLINE DUE TO CARBS. CLEAN
ENGINE, FUEL AND VEHICLE
STANDARDS, AS WELL AS DISTRICT
PROGRAMS FOR STATIONARY SOURCES
BECAUSE DISTRICTS DO HAVE
PRIMARY RESPONSIBILITY FOR AIR
POLLUTION CONTROL AS IT RELATES
TO STATIONARY SOURCES. SIMILARLY
TOXIC AIR CONTAMINANTS HAVE
CONTINUED TO DECLINE DUE TO THE
STATES, AIR TOXIC CONTROL
MEASURES AND LOCAL AIR DISTRICT
REGULATIONS. AH EMISSIONS OF THE
DIESEL PARTICULATE MATTER HAVE
DECLINED BY 80% SINCE 1990. UH
AND THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF
ATTENTION PAID TO SOME OF THE
KEY EFFORTS THAT CARB HAS MADE
OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS TO CLEAN
THE AIR AND ACHIEVE CLIMATE
GOALS, INCLUDING THE OMNIBUS
RULE REGULATING INTERNAL
COMBUSTION, MEDIUM AND HEAVY
DUTY VEHICLES. ADVANCED CLEAN
TRUCKS TO MOVE THOSE VEHICLES TO
ZERO EMISSION, ADVANCED CLEAN
CARS AND ARE IN PROGRESS.
ADVANCED CLEAN FLEETS RULE. UM
BUT I'M GOING TO TAKE JUST A
MOMENT TO HIGHLIGHT SOME OF THE
PROGRAMS THAT MAY HAVE FLOWN A
LITTLE MORE UNDER THE RADAR. IN
2021 CARB ADOPTED THE HEAVY DUTY
INSPECTION AND MAINTENANCE
PROGRAM. SMOG CHECK FOR TRUCKS,
WHICH WILL HELP ENSURE THAT
EMISSIONS CONTROL SYSTEMS
FUNCTION PROPERLY. UM THAT
PROGRAM WILL ACHIEVE SIGNIFICANT
NOX REDUCTIONS IN 2021 CARB
ADOPTED STRICTER STANDARDS FOR
VOLATILE ORGANIC COMPOUNDS OR V.
O. C S FOR SEVEN CONSUMER
PRODUCT CATEGORIES. AND IN 2022
CARB, ADOPTED AMENDMENTS TO THE
TRANSPORTATION REFRIGERATION
UNIT AIRBORNE TOXIC CONTROL
MEASURE. UM AND THOSE AMENDMENTS
WILL GENERATE REDUCTIONS OF
HARMFUL DIESEL PM AND NOX AND
RESULT RESULT IN HEALTH BENEFITS
THAT EQUATE APPROXIMATELY TO
$1.75 BILLION, IN PARTICULAR,
REDUCING RISK IN COMMUNITIES WHO
LIVE AND WORK NEAR. FACILITIES
THAT HAVE A LOT OF TRUCKS WITH
T. R. U. S. UM SO THAT THOSE
PORTFOLIOS OF PROGRAMS SHOW HOW
WE CONTINUE ACHIEVE REDUCTIONS
IN CRITERIA, POLLUTANTS AND
TOXIC AIR CONTAMINANTS. AND SO
THE NEXT CATEGORY UNDER A B WHEN
97 GREENHOUSE GASSES GREENHOUSE
GASSES HAVE CONTINUED TO DECLINE
. WALLY MISSIONS REBOUNDED IN
2021 TO DO TO THE MORE NORMAL
ECONOMIC CONDITIONS AFTER COVID
19. WE EXPECT THAT THEY WILL
CONTINUE TO DECLINE AS WE DEPLOY
CLEAN ENERGY AND TECHNOLOGY. UH
THE 2022 SCOPING PLAN UPDATE WAS
ADOPTED LAST DECEMBER, MARKING
THE END OF A TWO YEAR
DEVELOPMENT CYCLE. SIX BOARD
MEETINGS OVER 20 WORKSHOPS,
COMMUNITY AND TRIBAL LISTENING
SESSIONS. THOUSANDS OF WRITTEN
COMMENTS HUNDREDS OF ORAL
COMMENTS. UM AND THE SCOPING
PLAN WAS INFORMED BY EXECUTIVE
ORDER B 55 18, WHICH SET A 2045
CARBON NEUTRALITY GOAL AND THEN
BY A B 12 79 BY ASSEMBLYMEMBER'S
MURATSUCHI, WHICH WE HAVE BEEN
TALKING ABOUT THAT CODIFIED THAT
CARBON NEUTRALITY CALL ALL OF
THAT WORK IN DEVELOPING THE
SCOPING PLAN HAS MADE IT CLEAR
THAT IN ORDER TO ENSURE THAT THE
STATE IS ON TRACK TO ACHIEVE
CARBON NEUTRALITY WE HAVE TO
REDUCE OUR 2030 GREENHOUSE GAS
REDUCTION TARGET FROM FUNNY
2040. BELOW 1990 LEVELS TO 48.
UM. AND SO OUR FOCUS IS ON DE
CARBONIZED INDUSTRIAL SOURCES OF
EMISSIONS, REDUCING OUR RELIANCE
ON FOSSIL FUELS TO POWER OUR
TRANSPORTATION SYSTEM
SUSTAINABLY MANAGED NATURAL AND
WORKING LANDS AND SEQUESTERING
CARBON. THE SCOPING PLAN IS AN
ECONOMY WIDE STRATEGY THAT LAYS
OUT THE TRANSFORMATION NEEDED
FOR THE STATE. TO ACHIEVE NOT
ONLY THAT 2030 TARGET BUT THE
CARBON NEUTRALITY GOAL AND THEN
85% REDUCTION IN ANTHROPOGENIC
GHG EMISSIONS TO SUPPORT OUR AIR
QUALITY TARGETS AS WELL IS NOT A
REGULATION. IT IS NOT A
RULEMAKING. THE SCOPE. THE
COMPLETION OF THE PLAN IS REALLY
THE START OF THE MULTI YEAR
REGULATORY PROCESS THAT WILL
UPDATE EXISTING PROGRAMS AND
SUPPORT NEW PROGRAMS. IT'S THE
RESPONSIBILITY OF THE ENTIRE
ADMINISTRATION OF EVERY STATE
AGENCY NOT JUST CARVED TO
REEVALUATE THEIR PROGRAMS TO
ENSURE THAT THEY ARE ALIGNED
WITH STATE GOALS. AND CAN
ACHIEVE THE EMISSIONS REDUCTIONS
WE NEED. THAT HAS TO BE DONE
THROUGH PUBLIC PROCESS. UM AND
SO WE DON'T DETERMINE. WE DON'T
PREDETERMINE THE OUTCOMES OF
REGULATORY ACTIONS IN THE
SCOPING PLAN. UM BUT CARB ITSELF
HAS ALREADY BEGUN THE REGULATORY
UPDATE PROCESS FOR OUR
GREENHOUSE GAS EMISSIONS. UH
GOALS AND OUR REGULATIONS AND
EXPECTS THAT EVERY RELEVANT
STATE AGENCY WILL DO THE SAME.
WHETHER IT BE FOR REGULATIONS
THAT ADDRESS VEHICLE MILES,
TRAVELED OR INCREASE, INCREASE
THE CARBON SEQUESTRATION,
CAPACITY AND ECOSYSTEM HEALTH OF
OUR NATURAL AND WORKING LANDS.
IN PARTICULAR CARBON ALREADY
STARTED THE INFORMAL REGULATORY
UPDATE PROCESS THAT PRECEDES THE
FORMAL ADMINISTRATIVE PROCEDURES
ACT PROCESS. UM FOR THE CAP AND
TRADE PROGRAM AND FOR THE LOW
CARBON FUEL STANDARDS, AND THOSE
ARE OUR TWO KEY CARD PROGRAMS
THAT WE ARE FOCUSING ON UPDATING
IN THE NEXT, UM 18 TO 24 MONTHS.
UM THEY WERE ORIGINALLY DESIGNED
FOR A 40% REDUCTION TARGET, AND
WE KNOW THAT THE INCREASE IN
STRINGENCY IS NEEDED TO ACHIEVE
THE 48% REDUCTION GOAL, SO WE
KNOW LOW CARBON FUEL STANDARD
NEEDS TO BE MORE AGGRESSIVE. WE
KNOW CAP AND TRADE NEEDS TO BE
MORE AGGRESSIVE, FULL STOP. WE
KNOW THAT. BUT WE THERE'S A LOT
OF QUESTIONS AS TO HOW TO DO
THAT. WHAT THE BEST NEXT STEPS
ARE, UM AND SO WE ARE BEGINNING
THAT PROCESS. EVERYTHING IS ON
THE TABLE WE HAVE HAD IN CAP AND
TRADE. WE HAVE HAD A WORKSHOP ON
OFFSETS. WE ANTICIPATE
ADDITIONAL WORKSHOPS COMING IN
THE SPRING. WE ARE TAKING INTO
ACCOUNT. A LOT OF FEEDBACK,
INCLUDING THE RECOMMENDATIONS
MADE BY THE MAC, UM AND WE
RECOGNIZED THAT CHANGES TO
INCREASE THE STRINGENCY WILL
ACHIEVE EMISSIONS BENEFITS. UM
AND WE WANT TO ASSURE THAT THOSE
EMISSIONS BENEFITS OCCUR, UM,
AND THAT WE ARE NOT JUST
INCREASING PRICES FOR THE SAKE
OF INCREASING PRICES. UM SO
THAT'S THAT IS THE REGULATORY
CONVERSATION WE NEED TO HAVE, UM
, WE DID POST A MARKET NOTICE,
SIGNALING THIS UPCOMING PROCESS
IN CAP AND TRADE. UM AND KEY
TOPICS FOR WORKSHOP WORKSHOPS IN
THE COMING MONTHS. WE ARE DOING
STUDIES RELATED TO
IMPLEMENTATION OF CAP AND TRADE
THAT WILL HELP INFORM POTENTIAL
CHANGES. INCLUDING STUDIES
FOCUSED ON, UM LEAKAGE IN THE
INDUSTRIAL SECTORS AND
ELECTRICITY SECTORS AND ALSO
TRYING TO UNDERSTAND SOME OF THE
ANALYTICAL WORK AROUND THE
ENERGY DAY AHEAD MARKET AND HOW
THAT'S GOING TO AFFECT
ELECTRICITY. UM, EMISSIONS. UM
AND YOU KNOW, WE WILL LOOK AT
TOPICS LIKE REEVALUATING THE
IMPLICATIONS OF 5% OVERALL
BANKED ALLOWANCES. UM WE DO PLAN
ON REPORTING BACK TO THE
LEGISLATURE ON THAT NO LATER
THAN THE END OF THIS YEAR, BUT
IT WILL ALSO BE PART OF THE
REGULATORY CONVERSATION. UM, WE
WILL. THAT CONVERSATION WILL
INCLUDE EVALUATIONS OF CAPS IN
THE CONTEXT OF THAT INCREASED
AMBITION THAT WE IDENTIFIED IN
THE 2022 SCOPING PLAN. UM, WE
WILL LOOK AT, UH UPDATES TO
OFFSET PROTOCOLS BASED ON
SCIENCE. UM WE WILL LOOK AT, UH
, MECHANISMS TO PROTECT LOW
INCOME HOUSEHOLDS FROM
DISPROPORTIONATE IMPACTS OF
ENERGY PRICES. UM AND THE
QUESTION OF, UH HOW THE
LEGISLATIVE DIRECTION AROUND SP
905 INTERACTS WITH, UM. THE
POSSIBILITY FOR, UH, CCS
PROJECTS. UM CAP AND TRADE IS.
CERTAINLY AMONG THE BEST KNOWN
OF OUR CLIMATE CHANGE PROGRAMS,
BUT IT IS ONE PROGRAM IN A
PORTFOLIO OF PROGRAMS, CAP AND
TRADE SETS THAT STEADILY
ESCALATING, STEADY, ESCALATING
PRICE SIGNAL TO INCENTIVIZE
EMISSIONS REDUCTIONS. UM AND
SERVES TO ENSURE THAT AS WE'VE
DISCUSSED, NO MATTER HOW OTHER
PROGRAMS PERFORM, THAT PROGRAM
WILL CONTINUE TO HELP THE STATE
ACHIEVE ITS GOALS. THIS DOES
MEAN THAT THE ROLE OF THE CAP,
THE CAP AND TRADE PROGRAM PLAYS
WILL BE VARIABLE. AND I THINK DR
BROWN MENTIONED THIS, YOU KNOW,
DEPENDING ON ECONOMIC CONDITIONS
, DEPENDING ON ADDITIONAL
POLICIES ADOPTED BY THE
LEGISLATURE AND AS WELL AS
UNFORESEEN EVENTS, LIKE GLOBAL
PANDEMICS. UM. AND THIS INCLUDES
PROGRAMS THAT DO THINGS LIKE
REDUCE VM T INCREASED CONSUMER
ADOPTION OF ZEV AND INCREASE
RENEWABLE ENERGY DEPLOYMENT, ALL
OF WHICH HELP HELP US ACHIEVE
OUR GOALS. UM AND I GUESS I
WANNA, YOU KNOW, SORT OF, MAYBE
TEASE OUT A LITTLE BIT ON THIS
FRAMING OF, UH OF THINGS LIKE VM
T REDUCTIONS AS ASSUMPTIONS. I
DON'T VIEW THEM AS ASSUMPTIONS.
I VIEW THEM AS A CALL TO ACTION.
RIGHT I MEAN, WE KNOW THAT IN
ORDER TO GET TO MEET THESE GOALS
, WE NEED TO NOT ONLY ELECTRIFY
, UM, THE FLEET OR HYDROGEN IS
THE FLEET. UM UH, MR MATHIS
STEPPED OUT, BUT, YOU KNOW, WE
NEED TO GET VEHICLES TO ZERO
EMISSION, BUT WE ALSO NEED TO
REDUCE THE AMOUNT OF RELIANCE ON
THOSE INDIVIDUAL VEHICLES. UM
AND I WILL COMMEND YOU TO THE
SUSTAINABLE COMMUNITIES APPENDIX
IN THE SCOPING PLAN, WHICH HAS A
LOT OF DISCUSSION AND A LOT OF
POLICY OPTIONS AND IDEAS, UM AND
REALLY HIGHLIGHTS THE ROLE OF
LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND THE
IMPORTANCE OF THE WORK THAT THEY
DO, UM AND. YOU KNOW, AS WAS
DISCUSSED WITH DR BROWN. WE ALSO
, UH, NEED TO RECOGNIZE THAT WE
HAVE MASSIVE DEPLOYMENT OF
RENEWABLE ENERGY. ADDITIONAL
TRANSMISSION, ADDITIONAL
DISTRIBUTION UPGRADES THAT WILL
NEED TO HAPPEN TO SUPPORT THIS.
THIS TRANSMISSION TRANSITION. SO
YOU KNOW, WE UNDERSTAND THAT
LOCAL GOVERNMENT ACTION IS
ESSENTIAL FOR ACHIEVING THOSE
CLIMATE GOALS. AND INCORPORATING
THE BEST PRACTICES INTO PLANNING
INTO ZERO EMISSION
TRANSPORTATION INFRASTRUCTURE
INTO BUILDING DECARBONIZATION,
WHICH IS ANOTHER IMPORTANT
STRATEGY THAT WE HAVEN'T
DISCUSSED YET THIS MORNING. UM
SO SUPPORTING THAT ABILITY. TO
PERMIT THESE FACILITIES THAT
HAVE THESE CRITICAL CLIMATE
BENEFITS IS ABSOLUTELY
ESSENTIAL. WHETHER WE'RE TALKING
ABOUT HOUSING IN FULL, WHETHER
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT PUBLIC
TRANSIT. THE EXAMPLE YOU RAISED
. SOMEBODY REMEMBER? MURATSUCHI
WAS AN EXCELLENT EXAMPLE. YOU
KNOW, THIS IS WHAT THE V M T.
SORT OF, YOU KNOW, TARGET IN THE
PLAN IS ALL ABOUT LIKE WE NEED
TO GET THESE THINGS DONE. UM AND
SO LOCAL GOVERNMENT ACTION
SHOULD REALLY ALIGN WITH AND
SUPPORT. THE ACTION IS CALLED
FOR IN THE SCOPING PLAN. ANOTHER
EXAMPLE IS THE STATE
TRANSPORTATION AGENCIES. CLIMATE
ACTION PLAN FOR TRANSPORTATION
INFRASTRUCTURE, LIKE WE NEED TO
BE ALL IN ON SUPPORTING
IMPLEMENTING THAT PLAN. THE
RECOMMENDATIONS IN THAT PLAN
ARE, UM REALLY A HUGE LIST OF
OPPORTUNITIES TO THINK ABOUT AS
WE TRY TO DE CARBONIZED, THE
TRANSPORTATION SECTOR WRIT
LARGE. WE'VE DEVELOPED FOR
SCOPING PLAN SINCE ABBY 32 WAS
SIGNED IN 2006. ALL OF THOSE
SCOPING PLANS HAVE RELIED ON
SUBSEQUENT REGULATORY RULE
MAKING. THIS IS NOT A NEW THING
. THIS IS THE WAY WE HAVE DONE
THIS FOR QUITE SOME TIME, AND IT
IS THE WAY WE ARE GOING TO
CONTINUE TO DO IT. UM SO I
APPRECIATE SOME OF THE
RECOMMENDATIONS AROUND, UM SORT
OF PROVIDING ADDITIONAL FEEDBACK
TO THE TO THE LEGISLATURE. UM,
BUT I HAVE TO SAY I THINK IT'S
REALLY IMPORTANT THAT WE GET
THESE REGS DONE, AND THAT'S THE
WORK I WANT TO DO. I WANT TO
LIKE WE'VE ALREADY HAD A COUPLE
OF LOW CARBON FUEL STANDARD
WORKSHOPS. WE, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE
REALLY GETTING IN THE WEEDS ON
THAT REGULATION, AND WE WILL BE
READY SOON TO START THAT FORMAL
ÁP PROCESS AND CAP AND TRADE IS
GOING TO BE FOLLOWING A SIMILAR
TRACK. UM YOU KNOW, JUST BEHIND
LCF S SO UM, WE NEED TO LEVERAGE
THE INCREDIBLE INVESTMENT IN THE
CLIMATE BUDGET. WE NEED TO
LEVERAGE THE ONCE IN A LIFETIME
FEDERAL FUNDING OPPORTUNITIES.
IT IS TRUE THAT THE I R A WAS
NOT INCLUDED IN THE ORIGINAL
MODELING FOR THE SCOPING PLAN
BECAUSE IT DIDN'T EXIST YET, UM
WE ARE ABLE TO KIND OF TAKE
ADVANTAGE OF IT KIND OF AT THE
VERY END AND SAY, HEY, WE SEE
THAT SOME OF THESE STRATEGIES
ARE GOING TO BE MORE ACHIEVABLE
WITH THE I R A UM, BUT WHAT WE
DIDN'T WANT TO DO IS STOP THE
SCOPING PLAN AND ITS TRACKS AND
SORT OF REDO THE MODELING TO
UPDATED BASED ON THAT WORK, SO
NOW WE HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO
INCORPORATE THE GREAT WORK IN
THE IRA INTO THE IMPLEMENTATION
OF THIS PLAN. UM SO I ABSOLUTELY
LOOK FORWARD TO WORKING WITH YOU
ON, UH FIGURING OUT HOW WE BREAK
DOWN THOSE BARRIERS AND GET
THESE STRATEGIES DEPLOYED AND
ENABLE ACTION AT THE STATE AND
THE LOCAL LEVEL, UM, TO ACHIEVE
WHAT WE HAVE IDENTIFIED IN THE
SCOPING PLAN AS THE STEPS THAT
WILL GET US THERE, UM, TO
ACHIEVE THESE TARGETS AND
LOOKING FORWARD TO THE
DISCUSSION. THANK YOU VERY MUCH
FOR YOUR REMARKS. MADAM CHAIR.
UM I'LL GO TO MEMBERS FIRST AND
KIND OF LET IT GO FROM THERE. SO
REMEMBER, FRIEDMAN, UM SORRY,
ZIMMERMAN, DOLLY AND PELLERIN
AND THAT'S OKAY. KEEP RUNNING
LIST FOR NOW, THEN THE CO CHAIR
. SO REMEMBER, FRIEDMAN, THANK
YOU. AND THANK YOU, MADAM CHAIR.
THANK YOU FOR THE VERY CLEAR
PRESENTATION. AND OF COURSE, FOR
THE WONDERFUL WORK THAT YOU AND
THE REST OF THE BOARD MEMBERS
HAVE BEEN DOING. I DEFINITELY,
UM DO YOU THINK THAT THE STATE
IS GOING IN A REALLY ADMIRABLE
AND IMPORTANT DIRECTION? AND I
WANT TO THANK YOU FOR YOUR
LEADERSHIP. I DO HAVE A QUESTION
IN THE VM T REDUCTION PART OF
THE SCOPING PLAN, AND I AM BOTH
LIKE OTHER PEOPLE CONCERNED
ABOUT THE 25% BMT REDUCTION
TARGET, BUT I'M ALSO, UM, PROUD
THAT WE HAVE THAT TARGET AND I
THINK IT'S THE RIGHT TARGET TO
MAKE FOR MANY, MANY REASONS FOR
THE AIR QUALITY REASONS THAT YOU
TALKED ABOUT, BUT THERE'S ALSO A
LOT OF A LOT OF OTHER REALLY
GOOD REASONS TO TRY TO REDUCE
THE. ACROSS THE STATE. UM
INVESTING IN TRANSIT IS MORE
EQUITABLE. IT GETS MORE PEOPLE
GIVES MORE PEOPLE. HIGH QUALITY
MOBILITY IS A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO
CAN'T DRIVE FOR A VARIETY OF
REASONS WHETHER IT'S COST OR A
PHYSICAL CONDITION OR AGE. AND
SO THOSE PEOPLE ALSO NEED TO BE
SEEN AND THEIR NEEDS NEED TO BE
CENTERED BETTER THAN WE'VE DONE
. WE KNOW THAT TAKING TRANSIT IN
OUR URBAN AREAS. AND WE HAD A
HEARING ABOUT THIS YESTERDAY,
AND THERE'S A SHOCKING
STATISTICS ABOUT HOW MUCH MORE
TIME IT TAKES TO TAKE PUBLIC
TRANSPORTATION, AND WE REALLY
NEED TO FLIP THAT SWITCH TO
WHERE IT'S THE MODALITY OF
CHOICE BECAUSE IT'S FASTER AND
MORE CONVENIENT AND CHEAPER FOR
EVERYBODY AND NOT THE SYSTEM
THAT YOU TAKE. IF YOU JUST CAN'T
DO ANYTHING ELSE, SO I THINK
THAT HAVING THAT TARGET IS VERY,
VERY IMPORTANT. BUT MY QUESTION
IS, HOW DO WE ACHIEVE THAT?
CAPTAIN IS A WONDERFUL DOCUMENT
AND A WONDERFUL SET OF GOALS.
BUT LAST YEAR WHEN I ATTEMPTED
TO DO BILLS TO CODIFY CAPTIVITY
AND TO MAKE CAPITAL A REAL IN
TERMS OF OUR FUNDING FORMULAS, I
MET WITH A LOT OF RESISTANCE
FROM THE MPS ACROSS THE STATE
AND EVEN FROM OUR OWN
ADMINISTRATION, AND WE WEREN'T
ABLE TO GET THOSE BILLS THROUGH
THE LEGISLATURE. WHICH SHOWS
THAT I THINK THERE'S STILL A
DISCONNECT BETWEEN OUR STATED
GOALS. WHAT WE KNOW WE NEED TO
DO AND WHAT WE'RE REALLY WILLING
TO DO, AND SO WE'RE WORKING ON
THAT AGAIN, AND I WOULD INVITE
ANY STAKEHOLDER THAT HAS AN
INTEREST IN THIS TO WORK WITH
US, BECAUSE IF WE KEEP INSISTING
ON FUNDING THE SAME PROJECTS AND
ON DOING THINGS THE SAME WAY,
PARTICULARLY AS WE LOOK AT NEW
COMMUNITIES THAT ARE DEVELOPING
. WE'RE NOT JUST NOT GOING TO
MEET THOSE GOALS, BUT WE'RE
GOING TO GO. WE'RE GOING TO GET
FURTHER AND FURTHER AWAY AND GO
FURTHER AND FURTHER IN THE WRONG
DIRECTION. AND THE CONNECTION
THAT YOU BROUGHT UP BETWEEN
TRANSPORTATION AND THOSE VM. T S
AND LAND USE IS ALSO REALLY
PROFOUND. AND WE DID LEGISLATION
LOOKING AT HOW MUCH OUR UM,
GENERAL OUR PLANS THAT THAT THAT
ARE PLANNING AGENCIES ACROSS THE
STATE ALIGN WITH OUR SUSTAINABLE
COMMUNITY STRATEGIES GOALS, AND
THAT REPORT SHOWED THAT LESS
THAN 4% OF OUR PLANS ARE
COMPLIANT WITH SP 3 75 AND WITH
OUR GOALS, SO MY QUESTION FOR
YOU IS IN LIGHT OF WHAT SEEMS TO
BE RESISTANCE TO MAKING
FUNDAMENTAL CHANGES. IN THE WAY
WE DEVELOP IN THE WAY THAT WE
FUND MOBILITY AND THE WAY THAT
WE MOVE AROUND. WHAT IS THE CARB
FALLBACK? HOW DO WE MAKE THESE
GOALS REAL? BECAUSE. IT'S
WONDERFUL TO HAVE THE GOALS, BUT
WE IF WE'RE NOT GOING TO REALLY
DO THE THINGS THAT MAKE THE
CHANGE, WHAT DO WE DO NEXT? AND
HOW CAN CARB HELP US? MAKE UP
OUR COMMUNITIES REALLY PLAN FOR
SUSTAINABILITY, BRING THEM TO
THE TABLE AS PARTNERS. AND WHAT
IS YOUR ROLE? WHAT'S YOUR?
THAT'S A BIG QUESTION. WHAT'S
YOUR ROLE IN THAT? WHAT'S YOUR
FALLBACK? AND HOW DO WE GET
EVERYONE ON BOARD? GIVEN THE
AMOUNT OF RESISTANCE WE SEEM TO
BE GETTING FROM THE PEOPLE THAT
ARE MAKING THE PLANNING CHOICES
AND FUNDING OUR TRANSPORTATION
PROJECTS? UM I GUESS I WOULD SAY
IT STARTS WITH WELL, FIRST OF
ALL, LET ME SAY WE HAD A ROBUST
DISCUSSION AT THE BOARD ABOUT
THE VM T TARGET. I MEAN, WE
DIDN'T JUST TOSS THAT IN THE
PLAN WITHOUT KIND OF THINKING
ABOUT IT, AND WE HAD THOSE EXACT
CONVERSATIONS, RIGHT? WE HAVEN'T
MET OUR R V M T TARGETS IN THE
PAST. HOW ARE WE GOING TO MEET
THEM IN THE FUTURE AND WHAT WE
ULTIMATELY DECIDED ON AT THE
BOARD LEVEL? WAS THAT PART OF
THE NEED IS THE CLARITY OF YOU
KNOW WHY THIS IS NECESSARY? AND
WHAT? WHAT ARE THE STEPS WE NEED
TO DO TO GET THERE AND SO PART
PART OF THE SETTING THAT TARGET
WAS, YOU KNOW, WE WANT TO BE
AMBITIOUS. WE WANT TO MAKE CLEAR
THAT BMT HAS TO BE PART OF THE
PICTURE. UM A SIGNIFICANT PART
OF THE PICTURE. UM AND THEN WE
IDENTIFIED VARIOUS STRATEGIES
THAT IF YOU ARE A CITY COUNCIL
MEMBER WANTING TO, UM MAKE
PROGRESS ON CLIMATE CHANGE, YOU
CAN LOOK AT THAT AT THAT
APPENDIX AND SAY, HERE'S WHAT
I'M GOING TO ADVOCATE. YOU KNOW
FOR MY, UM IN MY CITY IN MY
COUNTY, YOU KNOW, IN MY ROLE ON
THE MPO, UM SO I AM HOPING THAT
THAT WILL HELP STIMULATE UM, AND
THEN ALSO HELP FRAME SOME OF THE
QUESTIONS AT THE LEGISLATURE.
AND UH, AND RECOGNIZING ALL THE
CHALLENGES YOU ALL HAVE IN IN IN
BALANCING THE NEEDS OF ALL THE
VARIOUS STAKEHOLDERS IN THIS UM
, IN THIS ARENA, UM. AND YOU
KNOW, CONTINUING TO WORK WITH
THE M P. O S IN, UM IN 3 75
IMPLEMENTATION AND, YOU KNOW,
CONTINUING TO TAKE THOSE
OPPORTUNITIES. YOU KNOW, WE HAVE
THAT JOINT UM, HEARING THAT WE
DO TWICE A YEAR WITH THE
TRANSPORTATION COMMISSION IN H
C. D ONE OF THE TOPICS AT OUR
UPCOMING JOINT HEARING IS GOING
TO BE, UM IS, YOU KNOW SOME OF
THESE PRESENTATION ON SOME OF
THESE CONVERSATIONS ABOUT ROAD
PRICING AND HOW WE'RE THINKING
ABOUT THAT, SO THAT WILL PROVIDE
A FORUM? UM WHERE IT'S NOT AN
ACTION ITEM FOR THESE ENTITIES.
BUT IT IS AN OPPORTUNITY TO
SHARE INFORMATION AND HAVE THAT
DISCUSSION WHICH WILL HOPEFULLY
INFORM OTHER CONVERSATIONS AND
ALLOW US TO PROVIDE FEEDBACK ON
SOME OF THE THINGS THAT OUR
SISTER AGENCIES I NEED TO BE
THINKING ABOUT SO. THERE IS NO
MAGIC BULLET, BUT ALL OF THE
CONTINUED WORKING ADVOCACY AND
INFORMATION SHARING. UM WELL,
HOPEFULLY, UH, HAVE SOME SOME
BENEFICIAL EFFECT IN
IMPLEMENTING THAT TARGET. UM
THANK YOU. I'M I'M GONNA PUSH
SOME MEMBERS OF BIRTH. I THINK
TO THE FRONT OF LINE AND WE'LL
COME BACK TO REGULAR ORDER
BECAUSE I THINK HE HAS TO OKAY
OUT. THANK YOU. CHAIR, RANDOLPH
. IT'S REALLY GREAT TO SEE YOU.
UM I AM A HAVE SO MUCH RESPECT
FOR CARB. I WAS ABLE TO PRACTICE
THEIR FOR MANY YEARS AND WAS AN
ADVOCATE BEFORE THE AGENCY AND I
KNOW HOW COMMITTED THE AGENCY IS
TO MEETING OUR CLIMATE GOALS AND
REALLY THE EXPERTISE THAT THE
AGENCY BRINGS TO BEAR. UM I'M
GONNA ASKED TWO QUESTIONS. ONE
IS SORT OF, UH, UM, VERSION OF
WHAT I ASKED THE LEGISLATIVE
ANALYST'S OFFICE. AND THAT IS,
UM YOU KNOW, THE SCOPING PLAN
REALLY DOES RELY. UM UH, TO A
GREAT EXTENT ON ELECTRIFICATION
OF OUR FLEETS AND OUR BUILDINGS
AND OUR BUILT ENVIRONMENT. UM
AND I KNOW THIS ISN'T SQUARELY
IN, UM THE AIR RESOURCES WORDS.
PURVIEW UM, BUT I'M WONDERING
THE EXTENT TO WHICH YOU'VE
LOOKED AT THE HOW REALISTIC THE
ELECTRIFICATION NEEDS ARE TO
MEET THE SCOPING PLAN POLICIES
AND OBJECTIVES. UM YOU KNOW, I
KNOW ASSEMBLYMEMBER'S WOULD AND
I AND, UM AND, UM ADDIS HAVE
BEEN VERY FOCUSED ON, UM,
OFFSHORE WIND AND SOME OF THE
ASSUMPTIONS THAT ARE IN PLACE
ABOUT WHEN OFFSHORE WIND IS
LIKELY TO GO ONLINE. I'M VERY
NERVOUS ABOUT THE FACT THAT, UM
IT SEEMS TO ME THAT SOME OF THE
OBJECTIVES SEEMED VERY
CHALLENGING TO ME, TOO, GIVEN
EVERYTHING THAT HAS TO HAPPEN.
AH UM UH, BOTH IN TERMS OF, YOU
KNOW, PROCUREMENT, UH, TO GIVE
THE WIND DEVELOPERS SOME
CERTAINTY TO ALLOW THEM TO EVEN
BEGIN THE ENTITLEMENTS OF THESE
PROJECTS IN THE FINANCING OF
THEM THE TRANSMISSION THAT'S
NECESSARY THE FACT THAT WE'VE
GOT TO ENTITLE AND BUILD PORTS.
UM SO I'M WONDERING THE EXTENT
TO IF YOU CAN COMMENT A BIT
ABOUT, UH, THE EXTENT TO WHICH
YOU'RE LOOKING AT SOME OF THE
ASSUMPTIONS ON THE ENERGY SIDE,
COMING IN UNDERSTANDING THAT
THAT'S NOT SQUARELY IN YOUR
PURVIEW, BUT OBVIOUSLY IT SHOULD
BE INFORMING THE SCOPING PLAN.
AND THEN THE SECOND THING IS, UM
YEAH, IT IS REALLY THE ROLE THAT
YOU SEE YOU COMMENTED A LITTLE
BIT ABOUT LOCAL GOVERNMENTS. UM
AND LOOKING AT STRATEGIES IN THE
SCOPING PLAN. I'M INTRODUCING A
BILL THIS YEAR THAT WOULD BE
REQUIRING LOCAL GOVERNMENTS TO
CREATE A CLIMATE ACTION
ELECTRIFICATION PLAN AS PART OF
THEIR GENERAL PLAN UPDATES, UM
AND WAS WONDERING IF YOU COULD
TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHAT YOU
THINK SOME OF THE THINGS THAT
MIGHT BE UM, ADVISABLE FOR LOCAL
GOVERNMENTS TO REALLY COMPLEMENT
WHAT'S IN THE SCOPING PLAN AND
REALLY HELP ACHIEVE SOME OF THE
OBJECTIVES THAT ARE THERE. SURE
OKAY ON ON THE FIRST QUESTION. I
DO THINK. AND THE SCOPING PLAN
IS PRETTY CLEAR THAT WE NEED TO
SIGNIFICANT NEW, RENEWABLE, UH,
GENERATION CAPACITY AND, UM,
RESOURCES LIKE OFFSHORE WIND,
WHICH CAN, YOU KNOW? REALLY HELP
ADD THE SORT OF THE ATTRIBUTES
THAT WE NEED, UM, ON OUR GRID
ARE ARE CRITICAL, UM AND YOU
KNOW, ONE OF THE ONE OF THE KEY
CHALLENGES, I THINK IS JUST
GETTING THOSE RESOURCES DEPLOYED
TO YOUR POINT. UM SO WHILE WE
DON'T, UM. YOU KNOW, WE'RE NOT
THE ONES ACTUALLY LIKE, UH,
DOING THAT DEPLOYMENT. WE ARE IN
REGULAR CONVERSATION WITH OUR
SISTER AGENCIES. UM AND REALLY,
REALLY MAKING THAT POINT THAT WE
NEED TO MOVE AS QUICKLY AS
POSSIBLE. UM WE? WE KNOW WE NEED
THE TRANSMISSION UPGRADES. WE
KNOW WE NEED ONSHORE WIND
OFFSHORE WIND. YOU KNOW ALL OF
THESE OPTIONS AND WE ARE NOT
GOING FAST ENOUGH, AND WE HAVE
TO GO FASTER. UM SO, UH, THAT'S
ANOTHER AREA WHERE I VIEW IT
LESS AS AN ASSUMPTION AND MORE
IS A CALL TO ACTION BECAUSE YOU
KNOW, WE KNOW THAT, UM AS WE
LOOK AT THE MODELING THAT THE
CEO DOES, AND WE ARE ABLE TO
PROVIDE INPUTS INTO THEM, YOU
KNOW, IN TERMS OF HIGH
ELECTRIFICATION SCENARIOS AND
HOW OUR CLIMATE GOALS ALIGN WITH
THEIR, UM UM, DEMAND
PROJECTIONS. AND WE ARE TRYING
TO CONTINUALLY STAY CLOSELY
ALIGNED ON THOSE ASSUMPTIONS,
BUT THEY NEED TO BE PUT INTO
ACTION. UM AND WE NEED TO FIGURE
OUT HOW TO REDUCE THE BARRIERS
REDUCE THE DIFFICULTIES IN
ACTUALLY DEPLOYING RESOURCES,
AND I THINK THAT'S A CRITICAL
QUESTION FOR YOU ALL AS
LEGISLATORS TO THINK ABOUT. THEN
ON YOUR. YOUR SECOND POINT ABOUT
LOCAL GOVERNMENTS. UM. THERE'S A
LOT OF GREAT, INNOVATIVE CLIMATE
THINKING AT THE LOCAL LEVEL. UM
BUT I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT THAT
THAT BE ALIGNED WITH THE OVERALL
TARGETS IN THE SCOPING PLAN AS
MUCH AS POSSIBLE. UM AND SO I
REALLY ENCOURAGE LOCAL
GOVERNMENT AS THEY'RE THINKING
ABOUT. UM, PLANNING IN THEIR
COMMUNITIES. YOU KNOW? HOW ARE
YOU PLANNING, YOU KNOW, MAKING
PUTTING YOUR JOBS AND HOUSING
TOGETHER? HOW ARE YOU PLANNING
FOR MORE? UM UH, VEHICLE
ADOPTION AND THE FEELING THAT IS
NEEDED FOR THAT ZERO EMISSION
VEHICLE ADOPTION. DO YOU HAVE A
PLACE FOR THAT IN YOUR
COMMUNITY? HAVE YOU IDENTIFIED
THAT? HAVE YOU PLANNED FOR THAT?
UM HAVE YOU CONSIDERED WHAT
YOU'RE BUILDING DEPARTMENT
REQUIREMENTS ARE FOR INSTALLING
ZERO EMISSION. UM. APPLIANCES
YOU KNOW, GETTING THAT HEAT PUMP
DEPLOYED IN YOUR COMMUNITY? WHAT
IS YOUR PROCESS? HOW DIFFICULT
IS IT? AND ARE YOU MAKING IT
HARDER OR EASIER? ARE YOU MAKING
IT HARDER OR EASIER TO DEPLOY
BATTERY STORAGE AT PEOPLE'S
RESIDENCES? ARE YOU MAKING IT
HARDER OR EASIER TO PUT CHARGING
IN MULTI FAMILY DWELLINGS. THESE
ARE THE QUESTIONS THAT LOCAL
GOVERNMENTS NEED TO BE ASKING
THEMSELVES. IT'S NOT JUST THE
BIG THINGS SOME OF IT IS JUST
THIS. LIKE YOU KNOW,
IMPLEMENTATION DETAIL? UM SO I
WOULD REALLY RECOMMEND THAT THAT
CITIES AND COUNTIES BE THINKING
ABOUT THOSE QUESTIONS. THANK YOU
VERY MUCH AND APOLOGIES. AND
THANKS TO MY COLLEAGUES FOR
LETTING ME JUMP. I NEED TO RUN.
THANK YOU. APPRECIATE YOU
JUMPING IN, UM SORRY, GO CHAIR,
AND THEN I'LL DID YOU HAVE A
COMMENT OR WELL, I'M HOPING
MAYBE WE COULD, UM, I WANT TO.
THERE'S A QUESTION THAT'S KIND
OF BURNING MY MIND WITH ALL THIS
DISCUSSION THAT I HAVE TO ROSS.
MAYBE WE COULD BRING ALL THE
PANELISTS UP AND WE CAN JUST
OPEN UP THE DISCUSSION FOR
EVERYBODY AND LET'S DO THAT AND
THEN, BUT WE'LL AND WE'LL KEEP
ROLLING, THOUGH, IN ORDER AS WE
DO THAT, SO YOU GOT IF YOU GUYS
WANT TO COME ON BACK UP IF
MEMBERS WANT TO ASK QUESTIONS OF
ANY OF THE OTHER PANELISTS AS
WELL. THEY'RE WELCOME AND THEN
LET'S LET'S BUT LET'S, UH KEEP
ON ROLLING AS WELL. SO SOME
MEMBER DOLLY AND THEN PELLERIN
AND THEN WOULD SORRY. A LOT OF
US. I MEAN, THE GREEN.
EVERYTHING IS GREEN HERE. I'VE
BEEN SORT OF I WAS THERE FOR A
WHILE. ASSEMBLYMEMBER'S MYSELF
YEAH. GOOD TO SEE YOU. CHAIR
AROUND OFF FIRST. I JUST WANT
TO, UH, I WANT TO MAKE A COMMENT
AND I DO HAVE A QUESTION. SO I
SIT ON THE VICE CHAIR OF ENERGY.
UM ON TRANSPORTATION. I'M ON
NATURAL RESOURCES, AND I'M ON EQ
. ALL THE AREAS THAT WE DEAL
WITH. AND I PREFER TO BE ON
THOSE BECAUSE I'M VERY CONCERNED
ABOUT THE ENVIRONMENT. AND THIS
IS THE TIME OF YEAR THAT WE DO
HEARINGS FOR ALL THOSE
COMMITTEES WITH DIFFERENT
AGENCIES SO YESTERDAY THERE WAS
A CHANCE THAT HEARING I THINK
THE DAY BEFORE WE HAD, UM, THE
CPUC AND SO AND THEN WE'VE SEEN
THIS PLAN COME OUT FROM THE
ALEJO'S OFFICE THAT THERE IS
REALLY IN MY MIND A LACK OF A
CLEAR PATH. OR CALIFORNIANS TO
SEE WHERE WE'RE GOING BECAUSE WE
HAVE ALL THESE AGENCIES DOING A
LOT OF DIFFERENT THINGS. AND
THEN ON TOP OF THAT WE HAVE SET
GOALS OR THE LEGISLATURE HAS SET
GOALS TO MEET TARGETS WITHOUT A
CLEAR PLAN. AND SO MY QUESTION
TO YOU IS THAT, UM YESTERDAY OR
THE DAY BEFORE, WHEN WE WERE
TALKING WITH THE CHAIR OF THE
CPUC ABOUT ELECTRIFICATION IN
CALIFORNIA. WHAT THAT REALLY
MEANS. AND WHEN WE TALK ABOUT
CITING, UH, TRANSMISSION LINES,
AND WE TALKED ABOUT BUILDING
POWER PLANTS ARE WE TALKED ABOUT
GETTING THE POWER WE'RE GOING TO
NEED TO ELECTRIFY CALIFORNIA AND
TRANSITION AWAY FROM FOSSIL
FUELS. UM YOU KNOW, SHE DIDN'T
HAVE A VERY GOOD ANSWER OF
ACTUALLY HOW WE'RE GOING TO GET
THAT DONE. UH IN MY PREVIOUS
LIFE, I WAS A COUNTY SUPERVISOR.
WE TRIED TO CITE TRANSMISSION
LINES TO MOVE ENERGY AROUND
CALIFORNIA. IT IS VERY DIFFICULT
TO DO. SO MY QUESTION TO YOU IS
DO YOU MEET WITH THE CPUC? EVEN
THE CPUC DIDN'T TALK TO THE CEO
ABOUT THEIR GOALS, AND THERE'S
GOT TO BE SOME HOLISTIC APPROACH
TO THE CHALLENGES THAT WE FACE
WITH DEPARTMENTS. EVERYBODY HAS
THEIR OWN SILO. YOU HAVE YOUR
SILO CPUC HAS THEIR SILO. THE C
E C HAS THEIR SILO. WE HAVE THE
TRANSPORTATION SECTOR AND AS UH
, BUSINESS OWNER AND AS SOMEBODY
WHO REPRESENTS TODAY 1.3 MILLION
PEOPLE. IN CALIFORNIA. TRYING TO
FIGURE OUT WHERE WE'RE GOING AND
HOW WE'RE GOING TO GET THERE IS
VERY CONFUSING AND UNCERTAIN. SO
FOR THOSE OF US WHO ARE TRYING
TO STAY IN CALIFORNIA NOT LEAVE.
WE HAVE A BIG EXODUS OF PEOPLE
LEAVING CALIFORNIA BECAUSE THE
COST OF DOING BUSINESS IN
CALIFORNIA IN THE COST OF LIVING
CALIFORNIA IS VERY DIFFICULT TO
DO. WHAT IS THE OVERALL STRATEGY
BETWEEN THE AGENCIES TO SIT DOWN
TOGETHER AND ACTUALLY SAY HEY,
IF WE'RE GONNA IF WE'RE GONNA
ELECTRIFY THE PORTS BUT WE'RE
GONNA WE'RE WE'RE GONNA
TRANSITION OFF OF FOSSIL FUELS.
THESE ARE THE TOOLS WE NEED FROM
THIS AGENCY FROM YOUR AGENCY
FROM ALL THE AGENCIES. TO GIVE
THIS LEGISLATURE SOME UH,
PATHWAY TO GET THERE TO ACTUALLY
ACHIEVE THESE GOALS. OBVIOUSLY
WE'RE NOT ACHIEVING THEM FROM
REPORTS WE'RE SEEING. UM WE'RE
NOT GETTING THERE WERE BASICALLY
DOING A LOT OF DIFFERENT THINGS
AND TALKING ABOUT LOCALS, BUT AT
THE END OF THE DAY UM, THEY'RE
THEY'RE IN MY MIND. THERE HAS TO
BE AN ABILITY FOR US TO ALL SIT
DOWN AND ONE ROOM AND SAY, HEY,
THIS THIS IS THE CHALLENGE, AND
THIS DEPARTMENT IS INSTEAD OF
JUST COMING THROUGH AND
ENFORCING. DIFFERENT REGULATIONS
THAT DON'T REALLY WORK. THE
OVERALL GOAL OF REDUCING G H. G
S I DON'T DISAGREE WITH YOU THAT
WE ABSOLUTELY NEED TO BE
COORDINATING A STATE AGENCIES
WORKING TOGETHER. I WILL GIVE
YOU AN EXAMPLE OF HOW THAT
COORDINATION IS PLAYING OUT. UM
IN THE ADVANCED CLEAN FLEETS
REGULATORY CONVERSATION. WE HAD
A. WE HAD A BOARD HEARING LAST
YEAR WE HAD STAFF FROM THE PUC
AND THE C E C, UM PRESENTING AND
ENGAGING IN A PRETTY LENGTHY
DIALOG WITH OUR BOARD MEMBERS
ABOUT OKAY. WHAT ARE YOU GUYS
DOING TO GET HEAVY DUTY
INFRASTRUCTURE DEPLOYED AND THE
GRID NEEDS FOR THAT DEPLOYMENT.
AND THAT HAS, UH, HAS HAS KICKED
OFF A MORE EXTENSIVE
CONVERSATION THAT I'VE BEEN
ENGAGING IN WITH THE PUC ABOUT
HOW THEY'RE THINKING ABOUT
FORWARD PLANNING FOR HEAVY DUTY
, UM, VEHICLES AND HOW TO FIGURE
OUT SORT OF. WHERE DID THEY SEE
THAT GROWTH HAPPENING? AND WHERE
ARE THE WEAK POINT IN TERMS OF
CAPACITY? AND THEN WHAT? HOW DO
THEY BUILD THOSE THAT INTO THE
PLANNING PROCESS FOR THE
UTILITIES, SO THAT THEY CAN, UM
KIND OF GET THOSE UPGRADES IN
PROCESS EVEN BEFORE THEY'VE
IDENTIFIED THE CUSTOMER THAT'S
ACTUALLY GOING TO USE THEM? UM,
WHICH IS TRYING TO THINK ABOUT
THIS IN A FRESHER WAY. UM AND SO
THAT IS EXACTLY THE KIND OF
THING THAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN. IS
IT HAPPENING AS MUCH AS IT NEEDS
TO? PROBABLY NOT. WE COULD DO
MORE. WE COULD DO BETTER, UM BUT
BUT THAT IS HOW THAT IS HOW I
VIEW THE WORLD AND I KNOW THAT'S
HOW MY COUNTERPOINT COUNTERPARTS
AT THE ENERGY AGENCIES VIEW THE
WORLD BECAUSE THEY KNOW THAT
THIS SCOPING PLAN IS UNDER IS
SUPPORTED BY AN UNDERPINNED BY
THE NEED FOR A RELIABLE, SAFE,
AFFORDABLE GRID. PEOPLE WILL NOT
TRANSITION AWAY FROM FOSSIL
UNTIL UNLESS THERE, UM
ELECTRICITY RATES ARE REASONABLE
. UM THEY WANT TO MAKE SURE IT'S
SAFE AND THEY WANT TO MAKE SURE
IT'S RELIABLE. ALL OF THESE ARE
THINGS THAT HAVE TO HAPPEN IN
ORDER FOR THE PLAN TO BE
SUCCESSFUL. AND THAT'S WHAT THE
THREE AGENCIES WORK TOGETHER A
LOT OF TALK ABOUT IT A LOT. UM,
I MEET MONTHLY WITH, UM THE
INDEPENDENT SYSTEM OPERATOR, THE
PUC THE C E C AND WE TALK
THROUGH THESE ISSUES AND FIGURE
OUT HOW WE CAN WE CAN CHARTER
PATH FORWARD AND WE WILL
CONTINUE TO DO THAT AND CONTINUE
TO TRY TO MAKE THAT MORE
EFFECTIVE AND ENSURE THAT THE
SOLUTIONS WE COME UP WITH
REFLECT THE URGENCY OF WHAT
WE'RE TRYING TO DO. THIS IS A
FOLLOW UP. YOU KNOW, AS AS A
LEGISLATOR WHO IS ENGAGED IN
LIKE ALL THESE DIFFERENT
COMMITTEES AND DIFFERENT
AGENCIES IS THE MOST
FRUSTRATING, I THINK THING IS
THAT WE SEE. WE CONTINUE TO
REGULATE WHICH DRIVES THE COST
UP, WHICH DOESN'T ACHIEVE IN MY
MIND THE GOAL WHERE WE'RE TRYING
TO GO, AND SO YOU KNOW WHEN
YOU'RE MEETING WITH THESE OTHER,
UH DEPARTMENT AGENCY LEADERS.
YOU KNOW, IT WOULD BE GREAT IF
YOU COULD COME BACK TO THE
LEGISLATURE AND SAY HERE'S
HERE'S AN AREA WHERE WE REALLY
NEED SOME HELP, AND WE KNOW I
MEAN, I KNOW THAT WE NEED
TRANSMISSION AND I KNOW THAT WE
NEED TO BUILD POWER PLANTS IF
WE'RE GOING TO ELECTRIFY MEAN
2035 IS LIKE HERE. AND DO YOU
KNOW HOW HARD IT IS TO BUILD A
POWER LINE OR HOW HARD IT IS TO
BUILD A, UH GENERATION FACILITY
THAT'S GOING TO MAKE ELECTRICITY
IN CALIFORNIA IS DIFFICULT TO
DO. IT'S GONNA TAKE MORE THAN
THE 12 YEARS THAT WE HAVE TO GET
WHERE WE WANT TO GO. AND SO AS
LEGISLATORS, WE NEED THE TOOLS
TO SAY, HEY, HERE'S HERE'S A
PERFECT FIX THIS THIS LINE RIGHT
HERE WILL MAKE THE DIFFERENCE IN
REDUCING GHG S BY THIS MUCH SO I
WOULD ENCOURAGE YOU AND YOUR
COUNTERPARTS WHO I HAVE ASKED
THE SAME QUESTION TO UH, IN THE
HEARINGS THAT I'VE BEEN IN TO
SAY, YOU KNOW, THE THERE IS NO
PLAN IN MY MIND. WE DON'T HAVE A
LONG TERM PLAN OF GETTING THERE.
ALL WE GET IS HEY, THIS IS WHAT
WE'RE DOING IN OUR AGENCY. UM WE
GET REPORTS FROM THE L A. OH,
THAT'S SAYING, YOU KNOW, WE'RE
NOT GOING TO GET THERE BY A
CERTAIN TIME AND WE CONTINUE TO
MOVE BILLS THROUGH HERE THAT SET
TARGETS WITH NO REAL PLAN. LOOK,
THE CLIMATE IS CHANGING. QUICKLY
AND WE NEED TO ADAPT TO IT IN A
MANNER WHERE WE CAN ACTUALLY
MAKE REAL COMMON SENSE APPROACH
IS ACTUALLY GETTING THE GRID IN
THE PLACE. WE NEED IT SO WE CAN
DO THE THINGS WE'RE TRYING.
WE'RE CHALLENGED TO DO AND AT
THE SAME TIME, MAKE SURE OUR
CONSUMERS WHICH ARE OUR
CONSTITUENTS CAN AFFORD TO LIVE
IN CALIFORNIA, AND THAT'S THE
CHALLENGE. I THINK WE FACE
BECAUSE WE'RE SO SILOED OUT.
THANK YOU. THANK YOU SOME MEMBER
. LET'S UH LET'S MOVE TO SOME
MEMBER PELLERIN. AND THEN WE'LL
COME BACK TO MR WOOD. THANK YOU.
THANK YOU, CHAIR RANDOLPH. AND
THANK YOU TO THAT. THE OTHER
SPEAKERS HERE TODAY AND THE
STAFF ARE PUTTING THE MATERIALS
TOGETHER AND OUR MEMBERS HERE
TODAY, SO I'M VERY SUPPORTIVE OF
ZERO EMISSION VEHICLES AND AT A
RECENT MEETING I HAD WITH OUR
LOCAL FIREFIGHTERS. THERE WAS
CONCERN ABOUT ELECTRIFYING THEIR
FLEET OF DIESEL TRUCKS. SO WHAT
MEASURES ARE GOING TO BE USED
FOR THESE LARGER TRUCKS AND
VEHICLES BETWEEN NOW AND THE
ZERO XEV TECHNOLOGIES. WHEN
THEY'RE READY, READILY AVAILABLE
AND CAN THEY BE SUPPORTED? AND
WILL THEY MEET THE NEEDS OF THE
USERS? AND ALSO, WHAT IS THE
TIMELINE FOR XEV TRUCKS
STATEWIDE? SO A COUPLE OF THINGS
WE DO HAVE, UM, VARIOUS
EXEMPTIONS FOR EMERGENCY
VEHICLES. SO THERE IS. YOU KNOW,
WHEN I WHEN WE TALKED TO LOCAL
GOVERNMENTS, WE THERE'S
DIFFERENT CATEGORIES, RIGHT?
THERE IS THE ACTUAL VEHICLES
THEMSELVES, UM, THAT ARE
FIGHTING THE FIRES AND THINGS
LIKE THAT. SO WE DO HAVE SOME
EXEMPTIONS FOR THOSE UM, AND
THEN WE ALSO AS WE'RE TALKING
ABOUT ADVANCED CLEAN FLEETS AND
HOW IT APPLIES TO LOCAL AGENCIES
WERE TRYING TO RECOGNIZE THAT
THAT. DIFFERENT AGENCIES HAVE
UNIQUE CHALLENGES. UM AROUND
MUTUAL AID AGREEMENTS THEY HAVE
WITH OTHER JURISDICTIONS OR WITH
, UM, VARIABILITY IN THEIR
TERRAIN. UM LIKE SMUT ALONE HAS
FACILITIES WAY UP IN THE
MOUNTAINS THAT HAVE TO DEAL WITH
SNOW AS WELL AS THEIR URBAN
FACILITIES. AND SO THERE ARE UM
. ADVANCED CLEAN FLEETS IS
REALLY ABOUT AN OVERALL FLEET
REQUIREMENT AND IT PHASES IN THE
ZERO EMISSION VEHICLES OVER TIME
, SO IT RECOGNIZES THAT THERE
ARE CERTAIN VEHICLES IN FLEETS
THAT ARE GOING TO BE, YOU KNOW,
SORT OF THE SIMPLER VEHICLES TO
REPLACE, BUT THEN WE RECOGNIZE
THAT IT MIGHT TAKE THEM A BIT
LONGER TO DO THE MORE COMPLEX
VEHICLES AND THEN WE ALSO IN THE
REGULATORY FRAMEWORK, WE
RECOGNIZE THAT THERE ARE
SPECIALTY VEHICLES. UM THAT'S
STILL NEED SOME MORE TIME IN
TERMS OF THE TECHNOLOGY
DEVELOPMENT. UM AND SO WE
RECOGNIZE THAT IF YOU HAVE A USE
CASE THAT DOES NOT HAVE A
VEHICLE, A ZERO EMISSION VEHICLE
THAT MEETS THAT USE CASE AT THE
TIME THAT WE UNDERSTAND THAT UM
AND THAT IS PART OF THE
CONVERSATION IN THE REGULATION.
SO YOU KNOW THE TRANSITION
STARTS AS SOON UH AS 2024 IN
TERMS OF BEGINNING TO FOLD IN,
UM SOME OF THOSE, UH ZERO
EMISSION VEHICLES IN FLEETS. UM
BUT IT GOES ALL THE WAY OUT TO
2040. BECAUSE RECOGNIZING THAT,
YOU KNOW WE HAVE DIFFERENT
CATEGORIES DIFFERENT SIZES OF
VEHICLES. UM THERE'S LOTS OF
CHARTS THAT I CAN SHARE WITH YOU
THE KIND OF WALK THROUGH ALL OF
THAT. UM BUT THAT'S KIND OF THE
TRAJECTORY. IT'S STARTING VERY
SOON AND IT'S AND IT'S GOING TO
MOVE OUT TO 2040. UM AND, UH AND
IT'S ALSO GOING TO INCLUDE A
MANUFACTURER SALES REQUIREMENT.
UM FOR 2036. SO THAT WHERE WE DO
HAVE VEHICLES THAT MEET USE
CASES. WE ARE REQUIRING
MANUFACTURERS TO RAMP UP THOSE
SALES IN THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA
SO THAT WE CAN MAKE THAT
TRANSITION. SO YOU'RE THINKING
BY 2040 THAT STATEWIDE WOULD
HAVE ALL TRUCKS AS ZEB VEHICLES.
WELL WE HAVE LEGACY TRACKS,
RIGHT? UM BUT BUT FOR THOSE
LARGER FLEETS, THAT'S THAT'S THE
TIMEFRAME FOR THEIR TRANSITION
FLEETS OF 50 OR MORE AND ARE
THERE OTHER FUELS THAT YOU'RE
CONSIDERING? BESIDES
ELECTRIFICATION WHEN WE SEE ZERO
MISSION? WE MEAN HYDROGEN AND
ELECTRIC. OKAY, YEAH. THANK YOU.
SUMMER WOULD. THANK YOU. UM I
WON'T BELABOR THE POINT I MADE
WITH MR BROWN EARLIER ABOUT
WILDFIRES, EXCEPT FOR 11 ISSUE
THAT I KNOW. IN THE SCOPING
PLAN. THERE IS TALK ABOUT
PRESCRIBED BURNS AS A TOOL. UM,
I WOULD JUST SAY THAT THERE'S
PRETTY SIGNIFICANT INCONSISTENCY
WITH OUR AIR QUALITY MANAGEMENT
DISTRICT AND HOW THOSE HOW THOSE
PERMITS AND HOW THOSE PROGRAMS
ARE PUT OUT OR ARE ADJUDICATED
OR OR PERMITTED. UM I KNOW IN
SOME SOME AREAS, SOME SOME
AREAS, THERE'S ZERO COST FOR THE
PERMIT, AND IN SOME COUNTIES,
IT'S UP TO $1200 FOR A PERMIT
FOR A PRESCRIBED BURN. SO WE'RE
GOING TO USE THIS AS A TOOL. WE
NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT IT'S THAT
IT'S UM USER FRIENDLY, COST
EFFECTIVE AND UM AND THAT THAT
IS USED EFFICIENTLY. I'D RATHER
SEE A SMALL PRESCRIBED BURN THAN
A MASSIVE FIRE. AND IF WE MAKE
IT HARD TO DO THE PRESCRIBED
BURNS, WE'RE GOING TO BE LEFT
WITH MORE POTENTIAL FOR MASSIVE
FIRES, SO I'LL JUST I'LL LEAVE
THAT AT THAT. BUT MY BIGGER
QUESTION HERE IS AND I GO BACK
TO THE THREE POINTS I BROUGHT
UP. YOU KNOW, AS
ASSEMBLYMEMBER'S FRIEDMAN TALKED
ABOUT THE CHALLENGE WITH
REDUCING VEHICLE MILES TRAVELED
UM UM CARBON CAPTURED. A NASCENT
TECHNOLOGY HASN'T BEEN REALLY
PROVEN TO SCALE UNLESS I'M
MISTAKEN, BUT MY UNDERSTANDING
IT REALLY HASN'T BEEN PROVEN TO
SCALE YET. WE'RE LOOKING AT BY
2030 70% OF REFINERIES ARE USING
THAT TECHNOLOGY. UM AND THEN THE
HEATING OF THE HEATING THE ALL
ELECTRIC HOMES AND THINGS WE'RE
DEALING WITH. MY QUESTION REALLY
FOCUSES AROUND UM, OBVIOUSLY
FROM YOUR COMMENTS, AGENCIES ARE
TALKING AND COORDINATING, YOU
KNOW, CONVERSATIONS AROUND
AROUND THIS BUT WHERE IS THERE?
IS THERE ANY CONVERSATION WITH
THE PRIVATE SECTOR OR THE PEOPLE
WHO WILL ACTUALLY HAVE TO BE
DOING SOME OF THESE THINGS. AND
SO AND THE REASON I ASK THAT IS
THAT WE'RE SEEING IN MY DISTRICT
RIGHT NOW, UM, HUGE CHALLENGES
WITH INTERCONNECTION. FOR
PROJECTS HOMES IN PARTICULAR. UM
YOU KNOW, JUST RECENTLY WE
LEARNED IN MY IN MY IN MY
DISTRICT OF 64 UNIT APARTMENT
COMPLEX THAT, UM, WON'T BE ABLE
TO BE ENERGIZED UNTIL 2028. UM
SO CLEARLY THERE ARE CHALLENGES
WITH WITH INTERCONNECTION WITH,
UM AND HOW HOW WE MOVE OUR POWER
AROUND. SO HOW MUCH HOW MUCH
DISCUSSION IS THERE WITH WHO THE
ENTITIES THAT ARE GOING TO BE
TRYING TO HELP US MOVE IN THIS
DIRECTION, SO THEY CAN'T THAT IT
CAN ACTUALLY HAPPEN. SO IN A
STATE WHERE HOUSING IS HUGELY
PROBLEMATIC FOR SO MANY PEOPLE.
THE IDEA THAT A DEVELOPER IS
GOING TO HAVE TO WAIT FIVE YEARS
AND MAYBE NOT EVEN BUILD THE
PROJECT, WHICH ALSO INVOLVES
FEDERAL GRANTS, AND STATE GRANTS
MAY NOT BUILD THIS PROJECT NOW.
BECAUSE THEY CAN'T BE CERTAIN
THEY'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO
CONNECT IT AND I WISH I WISH
THAT WAS AN ISOLATED INCIDENT.
YOU KNOW, BECAUSE IT'S THIS
ISN'T JUST IN MY DISTRICT. THIS
IS ALL OVER THE STATE. THIS
ISN'T JUST A NORTHERN CALIFORNIA
ISSUE. THIS IS SOUTHERN
CALIFORNIA ISSUES. SO IS THERE
HOW HOW DO YOU INTERACT? AND AS
YOU DO ALL THESE YOU KNOW,
OBVIOUSLY TAKING COMMENTS AND
SUCH FROM THE PUBLIC, BUT IT'S
GREAT TO HAVE GOALS BUT ON THE
GROUND HOW? HOW? HOW CAN WE MAKE
THIS WORK BECAUSE THERE'S A
DISCONNECT. YOU KNOW IF WE AND
I'M I STRUGGLE WITH THAT. UH,
YES, I HAVE HEARD VERY SIMILAR
STORIES. UM AND YOU ARE RIGHT IT
IS. IT IS NOT JUST ONE AREA. UM
AND, UH. AND SO IT IS A BIG
TOPIC OF CONVERSATION WITHIN THE
ADMINISTRATION. YOU KNOW WHAT
THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE AT JOB IS
WITH THE ENERGY AGENCIES AND WE
RECOGNIZE THAT THAT IS IT'S
SOMETHING THAT WE NEED TO SOLVE,
AND WE NEED TO SELF SOON. IT IS
SOMETHING THAT, UM I THINK
THERE'S A LOT OF CHALLENGES WITH
DIFFERENT UTILITIES HAVE
DIFFERENT CHALLENGES IN
DIFFERENT ISSUES, BUT THE BOTTOM
LINE IS YOU KNOW, WE NEED TO
SUPPORT THE INTERCONNECTION AND
THE ENERGY IZATION FOR THE
RESOURCES THAT WE NEED TO GET
ONLINE TO GIVE YOU AN IDEA OF
HOW UBIQUITOUS THIS PROBLEM IS.
ONE OF THE WOMEN IN MY BOOK
GROUP IS AN ECONOMIC CONSULTANT
. AND IN OUR LAST BOOK GROUP ME,
AND SHE'S LIKE, WHAT AM I
CLIENTS IS TRYING TO GET
INTERCONNECTED AND CANNOT GET
INTERCONNECTED. WHAT'S GOING ON?
SO WE RECOGNIZE THAT THIS IS
THIS IS A CRITICAL PROBLEM. UM
AND WE NEED WE NEED TO WORK ON
IT, AND IT IS VERY MUCH TOP OF
MIND. I GUESS AND JUST THE
FOLLOW UP. I MEAN, THAT'S THAT'S
ONE EXAMPLE. BUT THERE ARE
OTHERS. SO MY QUESTION IS ONCE
AGAIN. HOW ARE YOU INTERACTING
WITH THE ENTITIES OR ARE YOU
INTERACTING WITH THE ENTITIES?
OR IS IT JUST GOVERNMENT
TALKING? BECAUSE IT WAS JUST
GOVERNMENT TALKING? WE'RE NEVER
GOING TO GET THERE. OH, YES. NO.
I MEAN, I HAVE HEARD THESE
CHALLENGES FROM, UM, UH, FROM
FROM FLEETS THAT WANT TO MOVE
FORWARD WITH THEIR, UH,
INCENTIVE APPLICATIONS FOR THE
VEHICLES THEMSELVES OR WHO WANT
TO DO SOME EARLY ADOPTION ON
GETTING THE ZERO EMISSION
VEHICLES COMING TO ME AND
TELLING ME WE HAVE
INFRASTRUCTURE CHALLENGES. UM SO
, UH, WE DO WE DO TALK TO THE
FOLKS THAT ARE TRYING TO DO THIS
WORK. UM AND TRY TO UNDERSTAND
WHERE WHERE THESE PROBLEMS ARE
COMING FROM. AND AS I MENTIONED
EARLIER, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT
WE HEAR ARE DIFFERENT THINGS IN
DIFFERENT SERVICE TERRITORIES.
UM AND DIFFERENT INFORMATION
FROM DIFFERENT UTILITIES. SO
THAT'S KIND OF WHAT WE'RE TRYING
TO DRILL DOWN ON HIS. WHAT ARE
THE BEST STRATEGIES AS WE THINK
ABOUT, UM WHAT THE I R US CAN BE
DOING. UM YOU KNOW WHICH P O
USER HAVING CHALLENGES AND WHAT
THEY CAN BE DOING SO IT IS VERY
MUCH AN ACTIVE CONVERSATION, AND
I DO I DO AS MUCH AS I CAN TRY
TO UH, TO GET FEEDBACK FROM THE
REGULATED ENTITIES THAT WE'RE
DEALING WITH. WE DON'T WE DON'T
NECESSARILY SEE, UM THE FULL
PICTURE OF ALL THE CHALLENGES
LIKE I DON'T NECESSARILY TALK TO
HOUSING DEVELOPERS WHO ARE
HAVING INTERCONNECTION ISSUES
SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY DON'T SORT
OF RISE TO, UH, YOU KNOW, AT THE
PARTICULAR REGULATORY PROGRAM
I'M DEALING WITH AT THE MOMENT.
BUT I AM AWARE OF ALL THESE
CONVERSATIONS IN MY COUNTERPARTS
. DO YOU GET THAT INFORMATION?
BUT IF WE'RE NOT HAVING THOSE
CONVERSATIONS, SO ARE THESE
CONSIDERATIONS IN THE SCOPING
PLAN? IF YOU'RE JUST IF WE'RE
JUST DOING GOALS, ARE THEY
REALISTICALLY? REFLECTIVE OF THE
CHALLENGES ON THE GROUND OR
THESE GOALS THAT ARE GOING TO BE
UNACHIEVABLE. BECAUSE THAT'S
RIGHT NOW, SOME OF THIS REALLY
FEELS UNACHIEVABLE AND I DON'T
WANT IT TO BE. I DON'T WANT IT
TO BE WELL. MY COUNTERPART AT
THE END AT THE ENERGY COMMISSION
REFERS TO IT AS THE GREAT
IMPLEMENTATION. I MEAN, THE
REALITY IS THAT THERE'S A LOT OF
IMPLEMENTATION STEPS THAT NEED
TO HAPPEN, AND THOSE CAN'T ALL
BE LAID OUT OR ADDRESSED IN THE
SCOPING PLAN, BUT THEY NEED TO
BE ADDRESSED IN THE WORK THAT WE
DO IN OUR REGULATORY DISCUSSIONS
. AND SO THAT'S A LOT OF THE
FEEDBACK WE'VE BEEN HEARING IS
IN THE IN THE ARENA OF OUR
REGULATORY WORK. UM AND THEN IT
ALSO NEEDS TO HAPPEN IN OUR
INTERACTIONS WITH OTHER
AGENCIES. SO I CAN I AGREE WITH
YOU. THANK YOU. AND I'LL JUST
SAY I WANT TO KICK IT OVER TO,
UH, CHAIR ALAN HERE, BUT, UM I
GUESS TO PUT A FINER POINT ON ON
SIMILAR WOODS POINT, WHICH HAS
SORT OF BEEN MENTIONED BY A
NUMBER OF MEMBERS. MANY OF THESE
AREAS WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. MANY
OF THE ACTIONS IN YOUR SCOPING
PLAN ARE NOT NECESSARILY YOUR
DIRECT REGULATORY PURVIEW.
PUBLIC UTILITIES COMMISSION
MANAGES INTERCONNECTION ISSUES
LOCAL GOVERNMENTS ARE GOING TO
DEVELOP THEIR GENERAL PLANS, BUT
THE PUSH FROM THE AIR BOARD AS
THE TOP COP ON BEING THE
WATCHDOG ON GREENHOUSE GAS
EMISSIONS AND MAYBE TAKING IT.
TO HAVE MORE SORT OF POINTED
AND, UM YOU KNOW IT CAN GET
BURIED THERE. I'M ON PAGE 72 OF
THE SCOPING PLAN AND TABLE 21
HERE WHERE I SEE 24 SECTORS OR
SERIES OF ACTIONS THAT GO INTO
THE 48% NUMBER. WE DON'T KNOW
EXACTLY THE PERCENTAGE FOR AND
WE DON'T HAVE. THE EXACT GHD
ATTRIBUTION NECESSARILY BUT TO
PUT A FINER POINT ON THAT AND
FOR US AS THE LEGISLATURE, BUT
PERHAPS FOR THIS ADMINISTRATION
TO COME BACK WITH
RECOMMENDATIONS THAT MAYBE GO
BEYOND EVEN YOUR JURISDICTION,
BUT WE THINK ABOUT STATE
PERMITTING REFORMS. I THINK IT'S
HELPFUL TO HEAR FROM THE NEW
ADMINISTRATION. OVERALL, THE
GOVERNOR'S OFFICE WHOEVER MAYBE
CNR A TO SAY OKAY, HERE ARE HERE
ARE THE BOTTLENECKS THERE? UM IF
WE'RE REALLY ENVISIONING THIS
MASSIVE REFINERY, UM, REVOLUTION
BETWEEN NOW AND 2030 OF HOW THEY
WHAT FUELS THEY USED TO FUEL
THEMSELVES CARBON CAPTURE ALL
THE OTHER QUESTIONS. WHOSE WHOSE
JOB IS THAT, UM, IS THAT THE AIR
DISTRICTS JOB THE C E C,
SUDDENLY GONNA HAVE A ROLE NOW
BECAUSE THEY'RE GETTING DEEPER
INTO THE REFINING SPACE. SO SORT
OF LAYING OUT THE WARTS AND ALL
THOSE SORT OF BARRIERS AND
STARTING TO GIVE US SOMETHING
ACTIONABLE AND POTENTIALLY EVEN
PROPOSING LEGISLATION I THINK
COULD GET US, UM, JUST A MORE
CONSTRUCTIVE PLACE SO THAT YOU
SET OUT THE AMBITIONS. YOU'RE
CALLING TO ACTION. BUT NOW LET'S
LET'S LET'S START TO ARTICULATE
WHAT THOSE THOSE TEETH ARE, UM
SO I KNOW YOU HAD, UM, QUESTIONS
, UH, ON ON ANOTHER UNMENTIONED
TOPICS SO FAR. WHOOPS THERE'S UM
SO MUCH HERE, AND I CERTAINLY
ASSOCIATE MYSELF WITH QUESTIONS
, SENSE OF URGENCY AND SOME OF
THE FRUSTRATION THAT HAS BEEN
EXPRESSED BY A NUMBER OF MY
COLLEAGUES. UM, LET ME START
WITH ONE. PARTICULAR ISSUE. OUR
COLLEAGUE ASSEMBLYMEMBER'S
MATHIS RAISED THE ISSUE OF
HYDROGEN AND I AGREE THAT
THERE'S SOME REAL PROMISE THERE.
THE FLIP SIDE IS, I THINK THERE
ARE A NUMBER OF ISSUES THAT HAVE
BOTH BEEN DISCUSSED AND SOME
THAT I THINK HAVE BEEN UNDER
DISCUSSED, INCLUDING THE
VOLATILITY BECAUSE IT'S SUCH A
LITERALLY THE FIRST ELEMENT ON
THE ON THE TABLE. IT'S SO TEENY
TINY. THERE ARE A LOT OF LEAKAGE
ISSUES FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND IT
IS A GREENHOUSE GAS. UM SO WHILE
IT COULD BE A REAL SOLUTION, IT
COULD ALSO IF WE'RE NOT REALLY
CAREFUL, EXACERBATE SOME OF THE
VERY PROBLEMS THAT WE'RE TRYING
TO SOLVE. I KNOW I THINK,
PROFESSOR COLLINWOOD YOU'VE DONE
SOME WORK IN THIS SPACE. I LOVE
MAYBE IF YOU CAN GET SOME OF
YOUR THOUGHTS ON SOME OF THE
COMMENTS HAVE BEEN MADE EARLIER
ON HYDROGEN AND JUST SOMETHING'S
GOT TO BE MINDFUL OF AS WE THINK
ABOUT THAT TECHNOLOGY IN THIS
CONVERSATION. SURE THANK YOU,
SENATOR ALAN. I THINK YOU KNOW
HYDROGEN IS ONE OF THESE
COMPLICATED ISSUES WHERE I THINK
THERE'S A LOT OF PROMISE, AND
THERE'S ALSO SOME REALLY
SIGNIFICANT POTENTIAL RISKS. WE
NEED TO BE THINKING ABOUT. IT IS
A GREENHOUSE GAS, SO IT DOES
CONTRIBUTE TO THE CLIMATE
PROBLEM. MY UNDERSTANDING IS NOT
A LISTED GREENHOUSE GAS UNDER
CARB STATUTORY FRAMEWORK RIGHT
NOW, SO ALTHOUGH THE SCIENCE IS
CLEAR IT IS WHEN IT LEAKS A
CONTRIBUTOR TO THE WARMING
PROBLEM. IT'S NOT CURRENTLY AN
ACTIVELY MANAGED POLLUTANT. FROM
THAT PERSPECTIVE, UM, COUPLE OF
THINGS TO SAY ABOUT HYDROGEN
RIGHT NOW. A LOT OF IT IS USED
IN THE REFINING SECTOR. RIGHT
NOW IT'S MADE FROM FOSSIL FUELS.
THERE ARE PROMISING NEW
TECHNOLOGIES AND VERY GENEROUS
FEDERAL SUBSIDIES TO PRODUCE IT
WITH CLEAN ENERGY FROM WATER. UM
AND I THINK THE APPLICATIONS ARE
WHERE THIS GETS COMPLICATED THAT
THE CHAIR MADE REFERENCE TO WITH
ZERO EMISSIONS VEHICLES WERE
THINKING PRIMARILY ABOUT
ELECTRIFICATION. THERE MIGHT BE
SOME HYDROGEN APPLICATIONS AND
THE HEAVY DUTY SECTOR. UM
THERE'S KIND OF A HORSE RACE ON
THERE. UM IN THE INDUSTRIAL
SECTOR. WHERE INDUSTRIAL
EMITTERS USE HYDRO USE NATURAL
GAS PRIMARILY TO GET HIGH
TEMPERATURE HEAT. HYDROGEN MIGHT
HAVE REALLY PROMISING
APPLICATIONS IF IT'S MADE FROM
CLEAN RESOURCES TO SUBSTITUTE
THERE, AND I THINK THE
APPLICATION THAT PEOPLE TALK
ABOUT MAYBE THE MOST IN
CALIFORNIA THAT HAS PERHAPS THE
LEAST APPEAL IS INJECTING IT IN
PIPELINES. FOR DISTRIBUTION INTO
HOME HEATING NETWORKS WHERE I
THINK THE ECONOMIC STOMACH SENSE
IN THE LONG RUN LEAKAGE ISSUES
ARE REALLY CONCERNING, UM, AND
THE PATHWAY TO ELECTRIFYING AND
MANAGING THE AFFORDABILITY
CONCERNS WITH THE ELECTRICAL
SYSTEM. UM BASICALLY, EVERY
INDEPENDENT STUDY DOES NOT SHOW
A SERIOUS ROLE FOR HYDROGEN IN
HOME HEATING APPLICATIONS NOW
WOULD ENCOURAGE YOU ALL THE U. S
DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY HAS BEEN
VERY CLEAR ABOUT THESE KINDS OF
ISSUES RECENTLY, AND I THINK
VERY AUTHORITATIVE ON THAT POINT
PEOPLE WHO SUPPORT THIS, BUT SAY
THERE'S PLACES YOU DON'T WANT TO
DO IT. THERE'S SO MUCH ATTENTION
HAS BEEN GIVEN TO THE SOURCING.
YOU KNOW THE GREEN, THE BLUE,
THE GRAY, THE BROWN. UH AND
THAT'S ALL IMPORTANT, BUT BUT
BUT THIS LEAKAGE ISSUES A REAL
ONE. AND I JUST THINK UNDER
DISCUSSED AND I, YOU KNOW, I
HAVE READ SOME TROUBLING SCIENCE
ON THE TOPIC. ALRIGHT UM,
OBVIOUSLY, YOU KNOW THERE'S WAYS
TO MANAGE IT, BUT BUT BUT THEY
JUST INJECT IT INTO THE EXISTING
PIPELINE INFRASTRUCTURE WHICH
WAS CREATED FOR TOTALLY. I MEAN,
AS IT IS NATURAL GAS. I THINK I
WAS ABOUT A 7% LEAKAGE RATE AND
JUST BECAUSE OF THE MOLECULAR
STRUCTURE OF HYDROGEN, IT'S
ALMOST CERTAINLY GOING TO BE
SIGNIFICANTLY HIGHER. AND AS YOU
SAY, IT'S A GREENHOUSE GAS. IT'S
A GREENHOUSE GAS. SO SOMETHING
FOR US TO JUST BE MINDFUL OF AS
WE CONTINUE THIS DISCUSSION.
WE'VE GOT SO MANY QUESTIONS AND
REQUESTS OF CAR, BUT I'M I FEAR
WE'RE JUST GOING TO GET TO THEM
BECAUSE OF TIME CONSTRAINTS. I
DO KNOW THAT THE CHAIR OF THE
JOINT COMMITTEE IS GOING TO BE
DOING A SERIES OF HEARINGS
THROUGH THE COURSE. OF UM OF THE
YEAR AND I'M GLAD TO BE ON THE
COMMITTEE AND IT WILL BE
ACTIVELY PARTICIPATING, ALL OF
THEM AND ONE OF THE CHALLENGES
OF HAVING THREE COMMITTEES. CO
CHAIRING TOGETHER IS THAT WE
HAVE TO HAVE THE BIGGEST ROOM,
WHICH IS THE HARDEST ROOM TO
SCHEDULE AND UM BY HAVING JUST
THIS JOINT COMMITTEE, WHICH
REALLY DOES REPRESENT BOTH
HOUSES OF THE LEGISLATURE, AND
THE LEADERSHIP ON THESE ISSUES
WILL BE ABLE TO REALLY DO DEEP
DIVES AND NOT HAVE TO DEAL WITH
ALL THE SCHEDULING CONCERNS THAT
WE FACE IN THE ORGANIZING OF
THIS HEARING, BUT BUT I WOULD
LIKE TO JUST, YOU KNOW, GET YOUR
COMMITMENT CHAIR, YOU KNOW.
GIVEN THESE CONSTRAINTS, IT'S
OUR PLAN FOR STAFF TO COORDINATE
WITH, UM WITH MEMBERS TO GET
ELABORATE LETTER TO CARB WITH
THESE POINTS IN THE COMING DAYS
AND WEEKS AND I JUST HOPE THAT
THERE'S GOING TO BE SOME BACK
AND FORTH AND ACCESSIBILITY, UH
, YOU KNOW, IN THE DAYS TO COME
UM SO I LOVE TO LOVE TO WORK
WITH YOU ON THAT CHAIR. UH,
RANDOLPH. ABSOLUTELY I AM. UH
THESE ARE THE MOST. THESE ARE
THE THINGS I THINK ABOUT ALL DAY
AND NIGHT, RIGHT? SO THIS IS THE
MOST IMPORTANT THING THAT WE AS
A STATE NEED TO BE WORKING ON.
AND I AM ALWAYS HAPPY, UH, TO
HAVE CONVERSATIONS ABOUT HOW WE
KIND OF UNTIE SOME OF THESE
REALLY CHALLENGING NUTS. NOW
WE'VE BEEN TALKING A LOT ABOUT
ALLOWANCES OVER SUPPLY, AND I
THINK THAT'S CERTAINLY AN
IMPORTANT CONVERSATION AND YEAH
, SOMETHING THAT WE'VE BEEN
TALKING ABOUT FOR QUITE SOME
TIME. THERE'S SO MUCH MORE TO
THIS, THOUGH, AND I GUESS I DO
WANNA. I DO HOPE THAT WE CAN
COMMIT TO MAKING THE END OF 2023
REPORT THAT YOU'RE WORKING ON,
UM. YOU KNOW, UM, PERHAPS A MORE
COMPREHENSIVE LOOK AT THE
REGULATORY AND LEGISLATIVE
REFORMS TO THE PROGRAM THAT WE
OUGHT TO BE CONSIDERING, AND I'D
LOVE TO GET A BETTER SENSE OF
TRYING TO BROADEN OUT. THE
SCOPE. A BIT, AND SO THAT WE CAN
. WE CAN CONTINUE TO PLAY A
COLLABORATIVE ROLE TOGETHER AS
WE AS WE ADDRESS THE CONCERN
ABOUT SHORTFALL AND AMBITION.
BROADLY SPEAKING. UM. SO YEAH. I
MEAN, I GUESS I WOULD SAY AS I
AS I MENTIONED AT THE OUTSET, I
MEAN, WE KNOW YOU KNOW, THE
PROGRAM NEEDS TO BE MORE STRICT.
WE KNOW THAT. IT NEEDS TO BE
ALIGNED WITH OUR THE GOALS IN
OUR SCOPING PLAN, RIGHT? SO SO
WE KNOW WE HAVE TO UNPACK THAT
WE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT WE
HAVE TO FIGURE OUT WHAT ARE THE
RIGHT UH UH, MODIFICATIONS TO
IMPLEMENT THAT ALIGNMENT. UM AND
SO THE FIRST STEP IN THAT IS,
YOU KNOW, SORT OF THE WORKSHOP
PROCESSES AND THE CONVERSATIONS
WITH STAKEHOLDERS TO UNDERSTAND
. UM WHAT ARE THE OPTIONS? A LOT
OF WHICH HAVE YOU KNOW I HAVE
BEEN IDENTIFIED BY M. A MAC AND
BUT ALSO HAVE BEEN ADVANCED TO
US BY OTHER STAKEHOLDERS. WHAT
ARE THE POTENTIAL EFFECTS OF
DIFFERENT STRATEGIES? UM, AND
THEN HOW DOES THAT, UH, SORT OF
DISCUSSION FEED INTO THE
THINKING ABOUT HOW TO CONSTRUCT
THE REGULATORY CHANGES? AND SO
THAT WILL HELP INFORM KIND OF
HOW WE THINK ABOUT, UM, THE
REPORT BACK TO THE LEGISLATURE
THAT WE COMMITTED TO DO AND HOW
ALL THAT FITS INTO THE
REGULATORY PROCESS BECAUSE, YOU
KNOW, WE DON'T WANT TO. YOU
DON'T WANT TO SLOW THINGS DOWN.
UM UH, IN ORDER TO PRODUCE THE
REPORT, BUT I FEEL LIKE THAT
CONVERSATION IS ALL GOING TO BE
, UH, HAPPENING TOGETHER. AND SO
THE PUBLIC CONVERSATION IN THE
STAKEHOLDER BACK AND FORTH WILL
REALLY HELP INFORM. THE FACT
THAT WE SHARE WITH YOU ALL AND I
WOULD JUST SAY, I THINK YOU AND
I HAVE DISCUSSED THIS BEFORE,
BUT I DO I THINK IN THE END OF
THE DAY AND THE LEGISLATURE DOES
WANT TO ENGAGE IT ONCE ENGAGED
INTO PRODUCTIVE, COLLABORATIVE
COOPERATIVE WAY THE LEGISLATURE
DID EMPOWER CARB TO WITH WITH
EXTRAORDINARY POWER AND IT WAS
VERY CONTROVERSIAL AND THERE WAS
MANY PEOPLE WHO ARGUED AGAINST
IT. AND YET THE LEGISLATURE
HEARD THOSE ARGUMENTS LOUD AND
CLEAR AND STILL MOVE FORWARD
WITH THIS SCHEME. WITH THIS
SYSTEM BECAUSE OF THE FACT THAT
WE RECOGNIZE THAT CAR WAS
UNIQUELY POSITIONED TO TAKE THE
IMPORTANT STEPS NECESSARY TO
CONTINUE CALIFORNIA'S CLIMATE
LEADERSHIP AND THAT THAT'S
THAT'S AT THE HEART OF THIS
ENTIRE REGULATORY SYSTEM. AND WE
JUST HOPE THAT YOU AND WE HOPE
AND ASK, UH, THAT YOU CONTINUE
TO BE AMBITIOUS. TO MEET THE
SPIRIT OF THE LEGISLATION THAT
WAS PASSED. THAT WAS THE SACRED
TASK. THE SACRED RESPONSIBILITY
THAT WAS GIVEN TO YOU AND YOUR
ORGANIZATION BY THE LEGISLATURE
TO TAKE ON THE HARD DECISIONS,
THE LEADERSHIP ROLE THAT WILL
HELP TO KEEP CALIFORNIA THE
FRONT OF THE GLOBAL LEADERSHIP
CONVERSATION WITH REGARDS TO
CLIMATE. UM, AND YOU KNOW THAT
WITH THAT SPIRIT, I JUST HOPE WE
CAN CONTINUE THIS. THIS THIS
FRUITFUL DIALOGUE THAT YOU MAKE
YOURSELF AVAILABLE TO US AS WE
GOING TO CONTINUE TO EMPOWER YOU
AND ENCOURAGE YOU AND WORK WITH
YOU TO, UM. TO MEET THE GOALS OF
A B AND S P 32 THE RECENT
LEGISLATION THAT WE PASSED LAST
YEAR AS WELL. SO, UM. LET ME I
MEAN, I GUESS. WELL THE ONE
THING I WANTED TO THROW OUT, YOU
KNOW, MAYBE IT'S TOO PROVOCATIVE
QUESTION. BUT YOU KNOW, AS WE
HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE TALKING
ABOUT, UM THE BENEFITS AND YOU
KNOW THE WHERE THE WHAT ARE THE
BENEFITS BUT ALSO POTENTIAL
CHALLENGES ASSOCIATED WITH
EXTENSION OF CAP AND TRADE. UM
YOU KNOW, THERE ARE THOSE THAT,
UH, THAT THAT WANT A DIFFERENT
SYSTEM. WE'VE DISCUSSED A LOT OF
THE LIMITATIONS OF CAP AND TRADE
. BUT WE ALSO KNOW THERE'S A LOT
OF PROMISE ASSOCIATED WITH IT.
YOU KNOW WHAT? AS THE
LEGISLATURE THINKS ABOUT THE
FUTURE OF THIS PROGRAM, I JUST
WANT TO THROW IT OUT TO ALL OF
YOU. AND WE'VE BEEN TOUCHING
UPON THIS, OF COURSE THROUGH THE
COURSE OF THE MORNING, BUT UM,
YOU KNOW WHAT ARE SOME OF THE
THINGS THAT THE LEGISLATURE TO
BE THINKING ABOUT? AS IT THINKS
ABOUT THE FUTURE OF THIS
PROGRAM. HOW IT FITS INTO IN THE
GLOBAL CONVERSATION. SOME OF OUR
PARTNERSHIPS WASHINGTON STATE
HAS BEEN MENTIONED, BUT ALSO
SOME OF THE SHORTFALLS. I KNOW
THERE ARE THOSE THAT WANT TO DO
AWAY WITH IT ALL TOGETHER AND GO
TO COMMAND AND CONTROL SYSTEM.
OF COURSE, WE KNOW THAT THERE'S
A LOT OF BENEFITS TO THAT. WE
ALSO KNOW THERE'S A LOT OF
BENEFITS OF THE CURRENT SYSTEM.
SO WHAT ARE SOME THINGS THAT
THAT THAT YOU KNOW, WE'LL BE
TALKING A LOT MORE ABOUT THESE
IN FUTURE HEARINGS, BUT BUT YOU
KNOW SOME SOME THOUGHTS AND SOME
INITIAL THOUGHTS YOU'D LIKE US
TO, UH TO GRAPPLE WITH AS WE AS
WE FACE THIS, THIS UPCOMING
DECISION. WELL I'LL START. UM I
GUESS THERE'S MAYBE 33 BROAD
POINTS THAT I WOULD MAKE HERE
AND I THINK THE FIRST IS WE'RE
GOING TO NEED CAP AND TRADE IN
ORDER TO MEET OUR 2045 GOALS. WE
NEED THAT LEVEL OF AMBITION AND
THE SURETY OF REDUCTIONS THAT
ARE WELL DESIGNED PROGRAM CAN
PROVIDE AS WELL AS THE COST
CONTAINMENT AND COST EFFECTIVE
ROLE THAT CAP AND TRADE CAN PLAY
AND SO IT IS GOING TO NEED TO BE
BE A REALLY IMPORTANT PART. OF
OUR CLIMATE, OUR SUITE OF
CLIMATE POLICIES GOING OUT UNTIL
2045. SO I JUST I GUESS THAT
WOULD BE MY FIRST POINT IS, THIS
IS REALLY IMPORTANT. UM I ALSO
YOU KNOW YOU CAN I JUST
INTERRUPT YOUR FIRST POINT. IS
IT THAT THE CAP MATTERS YOU SAID
WE NEED CAP AND TRADE UNTIL
2045. IS IT A DECLINING CAP?
THAT'S IMPORTANT. IT IS THAT
FIRM DECLINING LAB CAP ON
EMISSIONS. THAT IS THE MOST
IMPORTANT PART. IN THEORY,
WASHINGTON ADOPTED A CAP AND
INVEST PROGRAM. THE OTHER CAP
AND DIVIDEND IDEAS THERE. IT'S
THE CAT PART IS WHAT MATTERS
MOST. WE HAVE TO FIGURE OUT HOW
MUCH TRADING WHETHER THE TRIP
BUT GOT IT TO INTERRUPT YOUR
IT'S A GREAT POINT. WASHINGTON
CALLS THEIR PROGRAM A CAP AND
INVEST PROGRAM. IT LOOKS VERY,
VERY SIMILAR TO CALIFORNIA'S IN
MOST WAYS, NOT ALWAYS, BUT IN
MOST WAYS, UM BUT, UM, YOU KNOW
THERE, THERE'S CERTAINLY WOULD
BE POTENTIAL FOR LINKAGE BETWEEN
THE TWO PROGRAMS, EVEN EVEN WITH
THE DIFFERENCE IN NAME. AND
THERE WOULD BE A LOT OF BENEFITS
TO BOTH JURISDICTIONS IN TERMS
OF BEING ABLE TO REALIZE MORE
REDUCTIONS FASTER WHEN YOU HAVE
THE BENEFITS OF A LARGER MARKET.
UM THERE IN THAT IS MY SECOND
POINT IS, WE SHOULD REALLY START
TO THINK ABOUT THE BENEFITS OF
LINKAGE AND WHAT IT WOULD TAKE
TO ACTUALLY DO THAT. UM AND THEN
THE THIRD POINT THAT I WOULD
MAKE, WHICH GOES BACK TO MY
OPENING COMMENTS IS, YOU KNOW,
CAP AND TRADE IS A CLIMATE
POLICY. BUT AT THE SAME TIME WE
KNOW THAT THAT OFTENTIMES
GREENHOUSE GAS EMISSIONS ARE
CORRELATED IN IN SOME RESPECTS
TO LOCAL HEALTH, HARMING AIR
POLLUTION, AND SO I THINK WE
NEED TO TAKE A CLEAR LOOK AS WE
EXTEND THE PROGRAM. IN TERMS OF
WHAT CAN BE DONE TO MAKE SURE
THAT WE ARE ALSO USING EVERY
TOOL AT OUR DISPOSAL TO ADDRESS
LOCAL AIR QUALITY, AND THAT THAT
YOU KNOW INCLUDES THE CAP AND
TRADE PROGRAM. MAYBE IN THE WAY
WITH FACILITY LEVEL CAPS THAT I
OUTLINED. MAYBE WITH OTHER
POLICY LEVERS. UM BUT BUT I
THINK WE NEED THE PROGRAM OUT TO
2040 45. IT'S ESSENTIAL WE
SHOULD BE THINKING ABOUT
LINKAGE. UM AND WE SHOULD ALSO
BE THINKING ABOUT HOW WE CAN CAN
MEANINGFULLY ADDRESS CONCERNS
ABOUT LOCAL AIR QUALITY. OTHERS.
JUST A COUPLE OF QUICK THOUGHTS
TO BUILD ON MY COLLEAGUES.
CAITLIN'S REMARKS. UM ONE THING
I'LL NOTE IS THE LEGAL AUTHORITY
. NOW. THE IMAC REPORT THIS YEAR
DOES NOT TAKE AN AUTHORITATIVE
VIEW OF THE LEGAL AUTHORITY
ISSUE, BUT WE WROTE A DETAILED
CHAPTER ON THOSE ISSUES
RECOMMENDING POLICYMAKERS
CLARIFY THAT AUTHORITY. UM I
JUST WANT TO EMPHASIZE THAT CARB
NOT ONLY HAS THE AUTHORITY TO
MAKE CHANGES IN THE INTERIM, BUT
SPECIFIC DIRECTION TO ADDRESS
THE ALLOWANCE ISSUE IN THE
INTERIM 2030. THAT'S AN AREA
WHERE THE LEGISLATURE MIGHT WANT
TO BE PROACTIVE AND ENGAGED. SO
I THINK THINKING ABOUT THAT
CONVERSATION IS A PLACE TO BRING
TOGETHER. SOME OF THE OTHER
CONSIDERATIONS MIGHT BE A
CONSTRUCTIVE THING. UM I HAVE
FRIENDS THAT I SPEAK WITH IN
ENVIRONMENTAL JUSTICE
COMMUNITIES WHO EXPRESS
OPPOSITION TO THE PROGRAM, AND I
THINK IF POLICYMAKERS WANT TO
CONTINUE TO RELY ON IT FOR THE
GOOD REASONS CAITLIN AND OTHERS
HAVE ARTICULATED, I THINK IT'S
VERY IMPORTANT. THAT THERE BE AN
ASPECT OF THAT PROGRAM THAT'S
RESPONSIVE TO THE CONSIDERATIONS
IN COMMUNITIES WHO HAVE NOT SEEN
IMPROVEMENTS IN LOCAL AIR
QUALITY. WHILE WE'VE BEEN
RELYING AT LEAST RHETORICALLY ON
THIS PROGRAM. UM THE OTHER THING
I WANT TO CALL OUT WITH RESPECT
TO PROGRAM DESIGN. WE'VE BEEN
TALKING ABOUT SORT OF THE WALKIE
MECHANICS OF HOW TO DESIGN THE
PROGRAM. WHAT YOU DO WITH THE
REVENUE IS ANOTHER AREA OF
SUBSTANTIAL POLICY. DISCRETION
UM, AND AS YOU THINK ABOUT
AFFORDABILITY ISSUES AND
CONCERNS THE POSSIBILITY OF
USING A MORE ECONOMICALLY
EFFICIENT MECHANISM AND SPENDING
MORE OF THE REVENUE IN WAYS THAT
ARE COMPENSATORY AND HELPED
BRING DOWN THE COSTS OF THINGS
LIKE ELECTRICITY RATES. THAT'S
ANOTHER LEVER THAT I THINK
POLICYMAKERS OUGHT TO CONSIDER.
AND THAT AS A BUDGETARY MATTERS
IS ONE YOU KNOW PRIMARILY FOR
THE LEGISLATURE TO BE THINKING
ABOUT RESPECTING, OF COURSE,
CARB RUNS A NUMBER OF VERY
IMPORTANT INVESTMENT PROGRAMS
FUNDED WITH THE CURRENT
REVENUES. I THINK I'LL PROBABLY
JUST EMPHASIZE ONE THING. THE
LAST THING THAT DANNY DR COLIN
WARD'S MENTIONED REALLY, WHICH
IS KIND OF THINKING ABOUT THE
PROGRAM, AND I MEAN, AS I
MENTIONED BEFORE, I THINK
THINKING ABOUT THE COST
EFFECTIVENESS OF THIS PROGRAM
COMPARED TO OTHER PROGRAMS AND
THESE WE HAVE VERY AMBITIOUS
GOALS. AND THE, UM YOU KNOW, THE
COSTS BECOME EVEN MORE EVEN MORE
IMPORTANT AS WE SORT OF RAMP UP.
THE AMBITION OF THOSE GOALS IN
THE COST CAN BECOME EVEN GREATER
AND SO THINKING ABOUT WHICH
POLICY TOOLS CAN ACHIEVE THOSE
GOALS AT LOWEST COST BECOMES
EVEN MORE IMPORTANT IN OUR VIEW,
AND IT MIGHT BE THAT THE CAP AND
TRADE PROGRAM WE MIGHT END UP
WITH HIGHER PRICES AS A RESULT,
IF WE CONTINUE TO RELY ON THAT
PROGRAM OR RELY ON AN EVEN MORE.
BUT THINKING ABOUT HOW THAT
COMPARES TO SOME OF THE OTHER
OPTIONS THAT WE HAVE AVAILABLE,
AND I THINK TO KIND OF, YOU
KNOW, TAG ONTO THE REVENUE SIDE
OF THE EQUATION, I THINK IS VERY
IMPORTANT IN THAT CONTEXT WHERE
WE MIGHT NEED TO RELY ON HIGHER
CARBON PRICES TO ACHIEVE THOSE
GOALS. UM BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN
THAT ALL HOUSEHOLDS HAVE TO BE
WORSE OFF FINANCIALLY AS A
RESULT, AND SO THINKING ABOUT
OUR MONEY CAN BE USED OR JUST,
YOU KNOW, WORSE OFF OVERALL. SO
HOW MONEY CAN BE USED TO THEN
SORT OF EITHER COMPENSATE THOSE
HOUSEHOLDS WHILE STILL
MAINTAINING HIGH CARBON PRICES,
OR USE THAT REVENUE AND OTHER
WAYS THAT PROVIDES REALLY
SIGNIFICANT BENEFITS TO
CALIFORNIA RESIDENTS AND
CONSUMERS AND KIND OF THINKING
ABOUT HOW HOW ALL THOSE PIECES
FIT TOGETHER. I DON'T THINK I
HAVE ANYTHING TO ADD. I MEAN, I
THINK THE PANELISTS REALLY
HIGHLIGHTED. UM SOME OF THE KEY
ISSUES OF DISCUSSION AND, UM UH
AND SORT OF, YOU KNOW, KIND OF
TEAR BREAK THE POSSIBLE BENEFITS
AND, UH, CONCERNS ABOUT MOVING
FORWARD, AND I THINK IT'S GOING
TO BE A REALLY IMPORTANT
CONVERSATION THAT THAT, UM WE
NEED TO HAVE AS AN
ADMINISTRATION AS LEGISLATURE
AND AS UM WITH STAKEHOLDERS.
COULD I ADD? MAYBE BRIEFLY? JUST
ONE MORE THING JUST TO WELCOME
THE CHAIRS, VERY THOUGHTFUL
REMARKS ABOUT CARBS UPCOMING
PROCESS IN THE ANNOUNCEMENT
THAT'S BEEN MADE THERE. I THINK
THAT'S A VERY POSITIVE
DEVELOPMENT IF YOU ARE REGULATED
EMITTER RIGHT NOW SUBJECT TO THE
PROGRAM THINK THERE'S A LOT OF
UNCERTAINTY ABOUT WHAT THE SORT
OF MEDIUM AND LONG TERM LOOKS
LIKE. AND SO I JUST THROW OUT MY
COLLEAGUE ON THE I M F. MEREDITH
FOWLEY HAS BEEN FOUND IN
POINTING OUT THERE'S COSTS WITH
THE UNCERTAINTY WE'RE FACING
RIGHT NOW BECAUSE PEOPLE DON'T
KNOW WHERE THIS PROGRAM IS GOING
IN, SAY, 10 YEARS, FOR EXAMPLE,
UM, AND THAT THAT'S A COST
PEOPLE ARE DEALING WITH TODAY,
RIGHT? AND IF YOU'RE MAKING
TRYING TO MAKE A BILLION DOLLAR
INVESTMENT IN RETROFITTING YOUR
ENTIRE FLEET OF INDUSTRIAL
FACILITIES WITH SOME CLEAN HEAT
OPPORTUNITY AND BASING THAT OFF
OF A $25 A TON CARBON PRICE THAT
WE DON'T KNOW IF IT STICKS UNTIL
2030. VERSUS HAVING A LITTLE
MORE CERTAINTY ABOUT THE FUTURE
AND THE VALUE OF THAT CARBON
ASSET YOU'RE GONNA GET IN
THEORY, MORE PRICE, CERTAINTY
AND MORE INVESTMENT CERTAINTY.
UM SO CERTAINLY A LOT OF LOOSE
THREADS HERE A LOT TO FOLLOW UP
ON. UM I MIGHT REFINE THE L. A S
RECOMMENDATIONS, UM, TO LOOK AT
THE POSSIBILITY. I KNOW THERE
WAS A RECOMMENDATION AROUND
REPORTING HAVING CARVED REPORT
BACK TO LEGISLATURA BY JULY. 23
BASED ON THIS HEARING. MY
INSTINCT IS THAT IT'S REQUIRING
CAR BUT ALSO YOU KNOW, WE MAY
WHEN WE ADDRESSED THE LETTER TO
YOU OTHER RELATED AGENCIES AS
WELL, UM, TRYING TO GET THE
INPUT OF EVERYONE FROM THE
ENERGY COMMISSION TO SAY GO BIZ
WHO'S SUPPOSED TO BE ACTUALLY
BREAKING BOTTLENECKS AND
FIGURING OUT HOW TO DEPLOY, UM
FOR NOT JUST THE SORT OF LAUNDRY
LIST OF REGULATIONS, BUT THE
MORE SORT OF QUALITATIVE
ASSESSMENT THAT I THINK WILL
HELP UNLOCK THIS OF WHAT YOU
KNOW. WHAT ARE THOSE IMPEDIMENTS
EITHER LEGISLATIVELY BUDGETARILY
, UM AND TRYING TO GET THAT
EITHER BACK TO US OR IN
COLLABORATION WITH US BEFORE WE
DECIDE ON THIS BUDGET THIS YEAR
THAT'S GOING TO BE THE REALLY
HARD PART IS HOW TO SWALLOW AN
$8 BILLION CUT AT THE SAME TIME
, WE'RE TRYING TO LOCK IN MORE
AMBITIOUS PLANS AND HOW TO KNOW
HOW FAR THAT'S GOING TO SET US
BACK. WHETHER IT CAN BE
BACKFILLED. AND WHETHER YOU KNOW
LAST YEAR'S CLIMATE BUDGET WAS
EVEN SUFFICIENT. IT'S THE
BIGGEST ONE WE'VE EVER HAD. BUT
UM, RELATIVE TO WHAT? THERE'S NO
SORT OF CORRELATION. I THINK
BETWEEN OUR INVESTMENT STRATEGY
RIGHT NOW, UM AND THE REGULATORY
PROCESS, AND SO THAT'S AN AREA
WHERE WE'RE GONNA OPEN UP FOR
PUBLIC COMMENT NOW, BUT I ALSO
THINK FOR THIS COMMITTEE TO
START TAKING TESTIMONY FROM, UM,
THE PUBLIC THE BUSINESS
COMMUNITY, LOCAL GOVERNMENTS. A
LOT OF THE FOLKS MENTIONED HERE
, THE ENVIRONMENTAL JUSTICE
COMMUNITY, CERTAINLY, BUT TO SAY
YOU KNOW WHAT'S STANDING BETWEEN
YOU AND THOSE TONS THAT YOU'RE
IDENTIFYING NEED TO BE REDUCED?
UM, SO TRYING TO GET BACK
FUNCTIONAL WORK AND ONE OF THE
FROM THE ADMINISTRATION, BUT. I
MENTIONED COLLABORATION WITH HIS
COMMITTEE BECAUSE WE DO HAVE THE
AUTHORITY ALSO TO CONVENE IN
TECHNICAL ADVISORY PANEL THAT'S
SUPPOSED TO BE DOING TECHNICAL
ANALYSIS, SO ONE OF THE
CONSIDERATIONS WERE UNDERTAKING
NOW IS DO WE CONVENE THAT
TECHNICAL ADVISORY PANEL NOW AND
START TO WORK ON JOINTLY WITH
THE ADMINISTRATION? POTENTIALLY
SOME MORE GRANULAR ROADMAP, NOT
A REDO OF THE SCOPING PLAN? NOT
EVEN A MIDTERM REVIEW FOR THE
YOU KNOW. DO YOU USE THE SEVEN
ALLERGY? BUT SOMETHING THAT'S
GOING TO NOT JUST BE A COMPASS,
BUT SOMETHING THAT THAT STARTS
TO PUT DOLLARS IN THAT IN THAT
CATEGORY, AND THOSE SORT OF
EITHER REGULATORY OR LEGISLATIVE
BARRIERS IN IN RIGHT RIGHT IN
FRONT OF US AND NOT, YOU KNOW,
FOR THOSE WHO READ DEEP ENOUGH
INTO TABLE SEE ONE IN THE
APPENDIX OF THE A B 1 97 LIST
AND IN THE MODELING ASSUMPTIONS
ARE IN THE ACTIONS FOR THE
SCOPING PLAN TABLE. I THINK JUST
MAKING IT VERY POINTED. SO WE
WANT TO HELP YOU DO THAT, UM AND
REALLY DRILL DOWN SECTOR BY
SECTOR AS WELL. I THINK IF WE
START TO BREAK THAT DOWN, IT'LL
IT'LL, UM YOU KNOW, IT'LL
ILLUMINATE THE OPPORTUNITIES FOR
US AND LOOK, IT'S GOING TO BE
HARD WORK. WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO
MAKE SOME CHOICES.
ADMINISTRATIONS HAVE TO MAKE
CHOICES. LEGISLATURES GOING TO
MAKE CHOICES AND DEFERRING
ACTION IN GENERAL IS JUST NOT
GONNA WORK. SO WHERE DO WE SAY
YES NOW AND, UM I THINK IT'S
GOING TO BE HARD, BUT WE HAVE TO
DO IT. UM SO, UH, ANY CLOSING
REMARKS, MADAM CHAIR JUST BEFORE
WE TURNED TO PUBLIC COMMENT OR
FROM THE OTHER MEMBERS DO WANT
TO OPEN IT UP AT SOME POINT, BUT
JUST TO WRAP UP DOES THE AT
LEAST THE WORK PLAN SOUND
ACHIEVABLE IN MAYBE TAKING THIS
BACK TO THE TO THE MINISTRATIONS
WRIT LARGE, NOT JUST TO YOUR
BOARD, BUT TO SAY, UM, LET'S
FIGURE OUT HOW TO GET A BIT MORE
GRANULAR ABOUT, UM, SORT OF WHAT
? THAT WHAT? THAT SORT OF
BARRIERS, ANALYSIS OR GAPS.
ANALYSIS LOOKS LIKE AND HOW TO
GET US SOMETHING BACK MEANINGFUL
OR DEVELOP SOMETHING, UM MORE
QUICKLY. THAT DOESN'T HAVE TO GO
THROUGH REGULATORY PROCESS. EVEN
HAVING YELLOW TECH. TAKE A
SECOND LOOK HAVING, UH, YOU
KNOW, SOME INDEPENDENT ACADEMIC
PANEL COME UP WITH SOMETHING.
I'M SORT OF OPEN TO HOW WE GET
AT THAT, AND SOME OF IT ACTUALLY
MAY COME FROM FROM, UH, INDUSTRY
AND STAKEHOLDERS TO SAY WHAT
WHAT DO THEY NEED? RIGHT? SO I'M
NOT JUST ASSUMING GOVERNMENT CAN
ACCOMPLISH THIS, BUT JUST
THOUGHTS ON THAT ARE CLOSING
COMMON. YOUR LAST POINT IS
ACTUALLY KIND OF WHERE I WAS
GOING TO GO, BECAUSE IF YOU LOOK
AT THE UNCERTAINTY ANALYSIS THAT
WE DO IN THE SCOPING PLAN, YOU
KNOW, THERE ARE THERE ARE
FAILURE POINTS THAT THAT WE CAN
SEE, LIKE THE CONVERSATION WE
HAD ABOUT, UM, ENERGY RESOURCES
GENERALLY, RIGHT, SO WE SEE
THOSE FAILURE POINTS. THOSE
POTENTIAL FAILURE POINTS, RIGHT
? AND SO THE QUESTION IS, AS WE
LOOK AT THOSE FAILURE POINTS.
WHAT ARE SOME WAYS? THAT WE CAN,
UM UH, MOVE FORWARD TO FIX THAT
, AND I THINK THE LARGER UH YOU
KNOW, STATE COMMUNITY, YOU KNOW,
COMMUNITY MEMBERS, UH, INDUSTRY,
UM. LOCAL GOVERNMENTS. THEY'RE
ALL GOING TO HAVE SOME THOUGHTS
ABOUT WHAT THE BEST WAY TO DO.
THAT IS, UM AND SO I THINK
THAT'S A CRITICAL STEP GOING
FORWARD. I WOULD JUST SAY.
THEY'RE ALL GOING TO HAVE
THOUGHTS, BUT, UM, WITH GREAT
POWER COMES GREAT ACCOUNTABILITY
. AND SO, UM, NO PRESSURE, BUT
THE LEGISLATURE AND THE LAW ARE
COUNTING ON THE AIR BOARD TO BE
THE DRIVER AND TO AND TO PUSH
THIS AND SO TO BE POINTED, AND
TO BE PRESENT LIKE YOU'VE BEEN
TO BE YOU KNOW, PUSHING, UM AND
ALL THOSE VENUES EVEN IF IT'S
NOT IN YOUR DIRECT REGULATORY
PURVIEW. I THINK YOU HAVE A JOB
TO PUSH THOSE UNCOMFORTABLE
CONVERSATIONS AND, UM, WE'RE
EXPECTING YOU TO DO THAT. I
THINK YOU'RE UP FOR DOING THAT.
I THINK THE BONES OF IT ARE
HERE. BUT, UM LET'S KEEP GOING.
UM THANK YOU TO OUR PANELISTS
FOR YOUR INPUT. UM, LOOK FORWARD
TO WORKING WITH YOU IN THE
MONTHS AHEAD. UM SO BEFORE WE GO
TO THE PHONE LINES, LET'S GO TO
PUBLIC TESTIMONY HERE IN THE
HEARING ROOM. WELCOME AND FOR
JUST, UM, BENEFITS OF TIME.
LET'S DO JUST LIMIT TO ONE
MINUTE EACH. UM BUT YOU'RE
WELCOME TO SUBMIT WRITTEN
TESTIMONY. UM AND WELCOME YOU TO
FUTURE CONVERSATIONS AS WELL. SO
PLEASE WELCOME. THANK YOU. CHAIR
K¾T. VALENZUELA FORMER CHIEF OF
YOUR STAFF OF YOUR JOINT
COMMITTEE, FORMER ABBEY 32
ENVIRONMENTAL JUSTICE CO CHAIR
HERE TODAY ON BEHALF OF THE
CENTRAL VALLEY AIR QUALITY
COALITION TO EXPRESS SUPPORT FOR
SOME OF THE REFORMS OF THE
CURRENT CAP AND TRADE PROGRAM
THAT HAD BEEN DISCUSSED
SPECIFICALLY NO TRADE ZONES AND
FACILITY LEVEL CAPS. BUT NEEDING
TO QUALIFY THAT TO SAY THAT IS
THE CURRENT PROGRAM WE'RE
TALKING ABOUT, NOT A POST 2030
PROGRAM. IF WE'RE GOING TO TALK
ABOUT EXTENDING THIS PROGRAM, I
HOPE WE CAN MOVE PAST THEORY AND
IDEOLOGY AND TOWARDS EVIDENCE.
THIS IS OUR FOURTH SCOPING PLAN.
I BELIEVE THIS IS 17. YEARS POST
. MAYBE 32. WE CAN TALK A LITTLE
BIT ABOUT WHAT? ACTUALLY WORKING
LIKE THE VEHICLE STANDARDS LIKE
RENEWABLE ENERGY AND WHAT MIGHT
NOT BE WORKING AND WHAT MIGHT
ACTUALLY BE FURTHER EXACERBATING
INEQUALITIES IN OUR COMMUNITY,
AND WE DON'T HAVE THE TIME OR
LUXURY. I THINK ANYMORE TO
CONTINUE TO TINKER WITH
SOMETHING THAT HAD DEMONSTRATED
NOT JUST THAT IT CAN'T DELIVER
THE REDUCTIONS BUT THAT IT'S
FURTHERING HARM AND
ENVIRONMENTAL JUSTICE
COMMUNITIES. SO I KNOW YOU'RE
TRYING TO LIMIT THIS TO A MINUTE
AND I HAD A LOT MORE THAT I
WANTED TO SAY. AND I HOPE THAT
THOSE FURTHER HEARINGS YOU
REALLY ALLOW US. MAYBE SOMETIME
ON A PANEL, MAYBE ENVIRONMENTAL
JUSTICE COMMUNITY MEMBERS TO BE
ABLE TO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT
THE EVIDENCE AND THE SCENARIO
THAT THE JACK PUT FORWARD IN THE
SCOPING PLAN, WHICH LARGELY
WASN'T ADOPTED, BUT THERE ARE
MEASURES THAT WE'RE PUTTING
FORWARD THAT WE DO BELIEVE SHE
WAS PROMISED AND PREDICTABILITY
AND EMISSIONS REDUCTIONS, WHICH
IS WHAT WE NEED AND EQUITY AND
THOSE EMISSIONS REDUCTIONS. WHAT
OUR COMMUNITIES HAVE BEEN
WAITING FAR TOO LONG FOR THANK
YOU. COUNT ON THAT, AND JACK WAS
THE BIG MISSING PIECE OF TODAY'S
CONVERSATION. AS IS TOO OFTEN
THE CASE SO COUNT ON A DEEP DIVE
THERE IN THE MONTHS AHEAD, AND
WE'RE HERE TO HELP. THANK YOU. I
UH CENTERS, UH, MEXICO VARLA
HERE ON BEHALF OF THE CALIFORNIA
HYDROGEN OR WELL, I'LL START
WITH THAT CALIFORNIA ADRIN
COLLISION, WHICH IS WHY I MAKE A
QUICK STATEMENT. HYDROGEN IS NOT
A CLIMATE POLLUTANT. IT IS NOT A
GREENHOUSE GASSES, NOT A
POLLUTANT CRITERIA OR OTHERWISE.
THE E D. F STUDY DOESN'T COME TO
THAT CONCLUSION. IT MAY HAVE AN
INDIRECT INTERACTION WITH
METHANE JUST AS OXYGEN HAS IN
DIRECTOR INTERACTION WITH THE
FORMATION OF SMOG. THAT'S NOT
WHERE THE SCIENCES WILL FOLLOW
UP WITH ERIC AND SIT DOWN AND
BRING SOME PROFESSORS TO CLEAR
THAT UP. UH ON BEHALF OF THE
CALIFORNIA COUNCIL FOR
ENVIRONMENT, ECONOMIC BALANCE IT
, YOU KNOW, AS ECO K¾T STATEMENT
, I THINK THERE IS A NEED TO
HEAR FROM OTHER STAKEHOLDERS IN
THIS INCLUDING LABOR AND
BUSINESS WHO ARE COMPLIANCE
ENTITIES IN THE CAP AND TRADE.
MANY OF THE RECOMMENDATIONS IN
THE LA AND I AM AC REPORTS ARE
NOT CONSENSUS POSITIONS, BUT
THERE IS A CONSENSUS POSITION,
WHICH IS THE EXTENSION THE CAP
TRADE BEYOND 2030 THE BENEFITS
THAT THAT BRINGS TO CONCERNS
SUCH AS ALLOCATION AND THE BANK
LOOKING AT THE 12 79
RECOMMENDATIONS OR GOAL SETTING
THE ALLOCATIONS AND CAPS
CONSISTENT WITH THAT MITIGATE
ALMOST ALL THE CONCERNS WITH THE
BANK. UH, AND MODELING WILL
EXAMINE THAT AND LOOK AT THAT,
AND WE WOULD ENCOURAGE THE
LEGISLATURE TO URGE A OR B TO
MOVE IN THAT DIRECTION. UM
SOONER RATHER THAN LATER, IF WE
GET THIS DONE IN 2024 LOT LESS
ISSUES IN 2030, YOU KNOW, 2025.
THERE MAY BE SOME STUFF THERE,
BUT SCOPING PLAN HAS OTHER
RESOLUTIONS THERE. THERE'S A
COMPLEXITY HERE IN THE SCOPING
PLAN THAT I THINK, UH, SENATOR
STERN. YOU'RE MENTIONING THE
PACE AND SCALE AT WHICH
CONSTRUCTION NEEDS TO TAKE PLACE
. IT'S GOING TO NECESSARILY
NECESSITATE CHANGES TO HOW WE
PERMIT SITE AND BUILDING THE
STATE OF CALIFORNIA. WE SIMPLY
CANNOT ACHIEVE THESE GOALS. AT
THE PACE THAT WE BUILD CURRENTLY
BEST YEAR EVER 2.2 GIGS OF NEW
RENEWABLE ELECTRICITY. WE NEED
SEVEN SAME WITH YOU KNOW, WE
NEED 80 TO 130 HYDROGEN STATIONS
PER YEAR. WE NEED 53 CHARGES PER
DAY. IT. THE PACE OF ALL THIS
INFRASTRUCTURE IS UNPRECEDENTED
, SO I DON'T WANT TO CUT YOU OFF
. BUT I WANT TO URGE YOU TO
SUBMIT THAT CONCEPT AND PROPOSAL
TO THIS COMMITTEE AND LET US
START WORKING ON THAT, BECAUSE
THAT'S THE THREAD WE WANT TO
PULL. SO THANK YOU. I APPRECIATE
TIME. YEAH. APOLOGIES FOR THE
BREVITY REQUIRED OF YOU ALL IN
ADVANCE HERE, BUT YEAH, THANK
YOU. CLAYTON MONIES WITH
INTERNATIONAL EMISSIONS TRADING
ASSOCIATION, OR AIDA. IT'S A 300
MEMBER INTERNATIONAL NONPROFIT
BUSINESS ASSOCIATION, SUPPORTIVE
OF USING CAP AND TRADE TO
ACHIEVE AMBITIOUS CLIMATE
TARGETS. ALSO OUR CEO JERK
FORESTERS, PARTICULARLY
PASSIONATE ABOUT LINKING
PROGRAMS AS A WAY OF SHOWING
CLIMATE LEADERSHIP. TO MAKE
THREE VERY QUICK POINTS. THE
FIRST IS THE PROGRAM IS WORKING
, SO A BANK DOES NOT MEAN THAT
THE CARBON MARKET HAS FAILED TO
REDUCE EMISSIONS TO DATE, IN
FACT, A SIGNIFICANT BANK AND
RELATIVELY LOW ALLOWANCE PRICES
IS COMPLETELY COMPATIBLE WITH
SUBSTANTIAL EMISSIONS REDUCTIONS
. THIS THEORY IS LAID OUT IN A
2020 ACADEMIC ARTICLE IN THE
PRECEDING OF NATIONAL ACADEMY OF
SCIENCES. IT'S EMPIRICALLY
TESTED AND THAT YOU REGGIE AND
IN CALIFORNIA, WHERE WE HAVE
JUST SEEN A FIRST OF ITS KIND
STUDY THAT SHOWS CAUSAL
EMISSIONS REDUCTIONS AND
INDUSTRIAL SITES, UH, THAT
REDUCED 9% ANNUALLY. SO THIS IS
THE FIRST CAUSAL STUDY DONE.
HUNTER'S CAP AND TRADE REDUCE
EMISSIONS IN CALIFORNIA. THE
ANSWER IS YES. UM ALSO WE SPOKE
ABOUT COST EFFECTIVENESS. UH YOU
KNOW, U C. BERKELEY AND LÀ WORK
SHOWS THAT OTHER POLICIES IN THE
MIX COST BETWEEN 60 AND $18,000
PER TON SO BOTH FROM AN
EMISSIONS REDUCTION AND COST
EFFECTIVE PERSPECTIVE,
PERSPECTIVES. THE PROGRAM IS
WORKING. THE QUESTION IS STILL
HOW CAN WE MAKE IT BETTER,
INCLUDING ENSURING WE HIT THE
2030 TARGET? AND IN THIS VIEW,
IDA HAS A POSITION THAT THE
PROGRAM SHOULD NOT ONLY BE A
BACKSTOP, BUT IT WORKHORSE. AND
WE SUPPORT EXTENDING THE PROGRAM
BEYOND 2030 AS SOON AS POSSIBLE
. WE HAVE A PUBLICLY AVAILABLE
LEGAL MEMO THAT WILL SUBMIT TO
YOU THAT THINKS BOTH CARB AND
THE LEGISLATURE HAVE THE
AUTHORITY TO DO THIS AND ON THE
LEGISLATIVE SIDE VIA A SIMPLE
MAJORITY. UH WE ENDORSE THE
EMISSIONS CONTAINMENT RESERVE AS
WELL AND CARBON REMOVALS
INCENTIVIZED BY THE CAP, SO I'LL
CONCLUDE BY SAYING THE AMBIGUITY
OVER THE FUTURE OF THE MARKET
AND LACK OF CLARITY OVER THE
ROLE OF THE MARKET IS HURTING MY
FINANCIAL INVESTOR IN COMPLIANCE
MEMBERS TODAY SO THE SOONER WE
GET THAT CLARITY, THE BETTER.
HOPEFULLY, THE CARD RULEMAKING
WILL WILL HELP IN THAT REGARD,
BUT WE LOOK FORWARD TO ENGAGING
WITH CARVED AS WELL AS YOU.
THANK YOU. WELCOME. THANK YOU,
MR CHAIR. IT'S UNDER ALAN KATHY
VAN AUSTIN. I REPRESENT UNITED
AIRLINES GOT ACTUALLY TWO
CLIENTS TODAY, UM, AN IMPERIAL
WESTERN PRODUCTS. UH BOTH
SENATORS, YOU'VE BEEN VERY
SUPPORTIVE OF SUSTAINABLE
AVIATION FUEL. AND UH, SIMILAR
MEMBER CONNOLLY. I KNOW YOU'RE
NEW, JUST A QUICK PRIMER. 80% UP
TO 80% REDUCTION AND GHG
EMISSIONS 50% REDUCTION IN
PARTICULATE MATTER THAT'S AROUND
YOUR AIRPORTS, AND WHEN YOU'RE
TALKING ABOUT ENVIRONMENTAL
JUSTICE, THOSE ARE SIGNIFICANT
REDUCTIONS. UM WE HAD A BILL
LAST YEAR. WAS NOT. IT WAS
SUPPORTED BY THE ADMINISTRATION
, DESPITE NO NO VOTES, BUT UM IT
WOULD HAVE ASKED CARB TO COME UP
WITH A PLAN. TO INCENTIVIZE
STAFF AND THE SCOPING PLAN DOES
ESTIMATE ABOUT 80% SOUTH. USE
WILL BE NECESSARY BY 2045 WITH A
REMAINDER COMING FROM HYDROGEN
AND ELECTRIC. I CAN TELL YOU
RIGHT NOW WE ARE DECADES 3 TO 4
DECADES AWAY FROM HYDRO OR
ELECTRIC FOR LARGE AIRCRAFT,
YOU'LL SEE TAXIS ELECTRIC TAXES
WITHIN THE NEXT 5 TO 10 YEARS.
THANK YOU SO MUCH. WE'RE GONNA
ASK YOU TO WRAP UP. I'M SORRY.
OKAY. UM SO. I'M SORRY. THAT'S
JUST SO MUCH GOING ON. IT'S JUST
WE'RE NOT MANY MORE HEARINGS
COMING UP, SO I APPRECIATE THAT
, AND I JUST WANT TO SAY, UM,
CURBS. RESPONSE TO ELSE TO THE
SOUTH IS TO REGULATE AIRLINES IN
CALIFORNIA, WHICH IS FEDERALLY
PREEMPTED RATHER THAN COMING UP
WITH AN UNCERTAIN PLAN THAT WILL
PRODUCE THE 4 TO 5 BILLION
GALLONS OF SOUTH THAT WE WILL
NEED IN 2045. THANK YOU. THANK
YOU. HI. ADAM SMITH, SOUTHERN
CALIFORNIA EDISON. WE ARE LARGE
ELECTRIC UTILITY THAT SERVES THE
BOTTOM HALF OF THE STATE AND
ALSO A LARGE COMPLIANCE ENTITY
IN THE STATES CAP AND TRADE
PROGRAM. A COUPLE OF QUICK
POINTS FIRST. WE'RE BIG
SUPPORTERS OF THE STATES. YOU
KNOW THE SCOPING PLAN THAT THEIR
RESOURCES BOARD HAS RELEASED. IT
IS JUST A ROADMAP. WE REALLY
ARE, YOU KNOW, HEARTENED TO HEAR
THE CONVERSATIONS TODAY ABOUT
UNDERSTANDING BARRIERS AND HOW
WE CAN MOVE FASTER TO IMPLEMENT
THAT. AND IN THE ELECTRIC SECTOR
. YOU'VE HEARD IT FROM OTHER
THAN YOU KNOW, SOME OF THESE
OTHER FOLKS HAVE SPOKEN BEFORE.
WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO GO SO
MUCH FASTER THAN WE EVER HAVE
BEFORE. SO WE NEED THE PUC TO BE
IN LINE THE AREAS BASICALLY,
EVERY STATE AGENCY LOCALS TO
KIND OF COME TOGETHER AROUND THE
NEED TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN,
BECAUSE IF IT'S NOT HAPPENING IN
THE ELECTRIC SECTOR ON TIME,
DECARBONIZATION. IS IT GOING TO
BE HAPPENING IN THE ECONOMY ON
TIME? IT'S JUST ONE CORE MESSAGE
FROM US SECOND BIT AS A
COMPLIANCE ENTITY IN THE CAP AND
TRADE PROGRAM. YOU KNOW, WE'VE
BEEN HEARING ABOUT THE
UNCERTAINTY OF THE FUTURE OF THE
MARKET. OUR RECOMMENDATION TO
THE LEGISLATURE IS EXTEND THE
PROGRAM AND LEAVE SOME OF THESE
IMPORTANT CONSIDERATIONS TO THE
AREA SOURCES BOARD'S REGULATORY
PROCESS WHERE WE PARTICIPATE ALL
STAKEHOLDERS PARTICIPATING WITH
CANDIDLY THINK THEY'VE DONE A
GREAT JOB OF FINDING HAPPY
MIDDLE THROUGH THE PROGRAM.
THANK YOU. THANK YOU. THANK YOU.
HI GOOD AFTERNOON. I'M RYAN
KENNY, WITH CLEAN ENERGY LIKE TO
FOCUS ON HEAVY DUTY
TRANSPORTATION FOR MY TESTIMONY
HERE, UM, THE SCOPING PLAN. OF
COURSE. ONE OF THE DEFICIENCIES
IS A LACK OF FOCUS BEFORE 2030.
I THINK ANOTHER ITEM TO ADD TO
YOUR LIST IS THE STATE STRATEGY
FOR THE STATE IMPLEMENTATION
PLAN, WHICH FOCUSES ON FEDERAL
ATTAINMENT AND NOX REDUCTIONS
THAT ALSO HAS A FOCUS OF 2037.
SO THERE REALLY ISN'T A NEAR
TERM STRATEGY TO COMBAT DIESEL
IN THE NEAR TERM BETWEEN THE
SCOPING PLAN AND OTHER PLANS
WITH CARB I WANT TO MENTION TO
THE SCOPING PLAN DOES A GOOD
JOB. ON ON SUGGESTING PRODUCTION
FOR BIO METHANE, BUT IT'S THE
END USES. WHAT REALLY IS THE
PROBLEM WITH THE SCOPING PLAN?
IT FOCUSES ON DIVERTING BIO
METHANE TOO HARD TO DO
CARBONIZED SECTORS LIKE
LOCOMOTIVES AND AVIATION, BUT
BIO METHANE IS THE ONLY CARBON
NEGATIVE TRANSPORTATION
TRANSPORTATION FUEL IN EXISTENCE
, AND IT'S NOT A PROMINENT
STRATEGY FOR SUCCESS IN THE
SCOPING PLAN FOR HEAVY DUTY
TRANSPORTATION, SO I WANT TO
HIGHLIGHT THAT DEFICIENCY AND
ENCOURAGE FURTHER OVERSIGHT ON
YOUR TERM EMISSION REDUCTIONS IN
HEAVY DUTY TRANSPORTATION SPACE.
THANK YOU. THANK YOU.
CHRISTINA'S CURRENT FOR THE
CENTER FOR BIOLOGICAL DIVERSITY
WITH THANKS TO THE COMMITTEE AND
APPRECIATE THE WORK TO ADVANCE
INTERAGENCY ACTION AND TO
ELIMINATE ALL GAS PLANTS, DOUBLE
V. REDUCTIONS AND FACE DOWN OIL
REFINING. CALIFORNIA MUST
PRIORITIZE RAPID DIRECT EMISSION
REDUCTIONS AT THE SOURCE
CENTERING INDIGENOUS PEOPLES AND
FRONTLINE COMMUNITIES TO FULLY
PHASE OUT FOSSIL FUELS. HOWEVER,
WE AGREE WITH THE LEOS FINDINGS
AT THE PLAN HAS SEVERE
DEFICIENCIES THAT MUST BE
REMEDIED. IT LACKS A CLEAR 2030
STRATEGY RISK CRITICAL DELAY FOR
ITS FAILURE TO ARTICULATE POLICY
SPECIFICS FOR TIMELY
IMPLEMENTATION OR LEGISLATIVE
OVERSIGHT, AND IT LACKS THE
STRINGENCY NECESSARY TO TRULY
MEET TARGETS. WE NEED GREATER
ACTION IN THE NEAR TERM TO
ACCELERATE TARGETS WITH
STRATEGIES TO ACTUALLY ACHIEVE
THESE GOALS IN THE REAL WORLD,
NOT JUST ON PAPER. BY
PRIORITIZING DIRECT EMISSIONS
REDUCTIONS. CALIFORNIA LEADERS
MUST STOP FALLING FOR FALSE
INDUSTRY SOLUTIONS, WASTING
LIMITED PUBLIC FUNDS, WE MUST
RAPIDLY AND EQUITABLY PHASE OUT
FOSSIL FUELS STARTING NOW. THANK
YOU. THANK YOU. THANK YOU SO
MUCH. GOOD AFTERNOON. ZACK,
CLEARLY WITH THE WESTERN STATES
PETROLEUM ASSOCIATION REALLY
APPRECIATE THE CONVERSATION HERE
TODAY ALSO WANT TO APPRECIATE,
UH, THE AIR RESOURCES BOARD FOR
ACKNOWLEDGING THAT CARBON
CAPTURE AND SEQUESTRATION,
HYDROGEN AND OTHER LOATH UH,
CARBON TECHNOLOGIES ARE GONNA BE
NECESSARY FOR THE STATE TO MEET
ITS CARBON NEUTRALITY GOALS OVER
WITHOUT SIGNIFICANT, UH,
STREAMLINING OR PERMITTING
REFORM FOR THOSE TYPES OF
PROJECTS. IT IS VERY AMBITIOUS
TO TRY AND MEET THOSE TARGETS.
WE ALSO HAVE SIGNIFICANT
CONCERNS ABOUT THE SCOPING PLANS
MARKET SIGNALS THAT IT'S SENDING
, LIKE PHASING OUT REFINING AND,
UH LOCAL OIL AND GAS PRODUCTION.
BECAUSE THEY SEEM TO BE IN
CONFLICT WITH WITH SOME OF THE
VERY CONVERSATIONS THE GOVERNOR
AND THE LEGISLATURE ARE HAVING,
AS IT RELATES TO, UH, PROVIDING
RELIEF AT THE GAS PUMP. WE ALSO
CAUTIONED SIGNIFICANT CHANGES TO
THE CAP AND TRADE PROGRAM. UH
THAT WOULD RESULT IN A HIGHER
PRICE ON CARBON AS THOSE ARE
DIRECTLY TRANS COULD LIKELY BE
DIRECTLY TRANSLATED TO OTHER
CONSUMERS AT THE PUMP. UM WE
ALSO WANT TO POINT THIS
COMMITTEE TO THE C. E. C S
POTENTIAL STUDY ON FIELD
TRANSITION STUDY AS CALIFORNIA'S
CONTINUE TO DRIVE OVER 300
BILLION MILES A YEAR. WE THINK
IT'S GOING TO BE IMPORTANT TO
HAVE A REALISTIC VIEW OF
RELIABILITY. AND UH, SUPPLY.
THANK YOU SO MUCH AS WE GO
THROUGH THE TRANSITION. WE JUST
HEARD CAUTION AGAINST POLICIES
THAT COULD POTENTIALLY HARM
CONSUMERS. THANK YOU APPRECIATE
THE SHOUT OUT TO CC HOPE YOU
GUYS COME IN THE FUTURE CC
HEARINGS. UH, OKAY. GOOD
AFTERNOON. NICOLE RICE,
PRESIDENT OF THE CALIFORNIA
RENEWABLE TRANSPORTATION
ALLIANCE. UM FIRST OF ALL, WE
JUST WANT TO THANK THE JOINT
COMMITTEES FOR HAVING THIS
HEARING TODAY. I WANT TO START
OUT BY SAYING THAT WE DO AGREE
WITH THE ASSESSMENT. BY THE WAY.
OH THAT THERE IS A LACK OF A
NEAR TERM REDUCTION STRATEGY TO
HELP US ACHIEVE A VARIETY OF OUR
GOALS, INCLUDING THE 2030 GHD
REDUCTION GOAL. THAT IS WHY CRT
A UNDER ITS FORMER DESIGNATION,
THE CALIFORNIA NATURAL GAS
VEHICLE COALITION RAISED THAT
POINT CONTINUOUSLY THROUGH THE
SCOPING PLAN PROCESS. BUT I ALSO
WANT TO SAY THAT WE AGREE WITH
THE COMMENTS THAT CAME FROM YOU
AS COMMITTEE MEMBERS FROM THE
DIOCESE MORNING THAT THERE ARE
ADDITIONAL TOOLS TO BE
CONSIDERED THAT MAY HAVE BETTER
IN DIFFERENT APPLICATIONS IN THE
TIME FRAME RELATED TO THIS
TRANSITION. THERE WAS DISCUSSION
ABOUT HYDROGEN AND ALSO LOOKING
AT THE USE OF RENEWABLE NATURAL
GAS. SO THAT WE DON'T FORFEIT
ANY CONTINUED AND SUSTAINABLE
EMISSION REDUCTIONS THAT CAN BE
ACHIEVED TODAY, AND WE THINK THE
REALITY IS THAT IF WE DON'T DO
MORE TODAY, WITH THE PROVEN
TECHNOLOGIES THAT WE CURRENTLY
HAVE IN USE, THE RESULT WILL BE
THE CONTINUED USE OF THE HIGHER
EMITTING HEAVY DUTY TRUCK
OPTIONS THAT ARE CURRENTLY IN
USE TODAY. AND WE'VE TALKED
ABOUT ZERO A LOT THIS MORNING,
AND I DON'T THINK THAT OUR
MESSAGE CONFLICTS WITH THE
STATE'S LONG TERM PLAN FOR THE
USE OF ZERO EMISSION. UM AND
THEN THE TRANSPORTATION SPACE.
BUT I DO BELIEVE THAT WE HAVE TO
GO INTO THIS WITH OUR EYES WIDE
OPEN, WHICH IS THAT ZERO IS ZERO
AT THE TAILPIPE, AND IT WON'T BE
100% PERCENT ZERO UNTIL WE
SIMULTANEOUSLY GREEN THE GRID
AND THEN FIND ENVIRONMENTALLY
WAYS. TO DISPOSE OF AND SOURCE
OF THE BATTERIES. SO THAT IS WHY
WE THINK THAT IT'S IMPORTANT TO
CONSIDER ALL THE OPTIONS THAT
WERE TALKED ABOUT TODAY. I'LL
CONCLUDE BY SAYING THAT WE'RE
EXCITED TO HEAR THAT THE
COMMITTEE IS GOING TO BE DOING
MORE WORK IN THIS SPACE, AND WE
URGE THE COMMITTEE TO DIRECT
CARB TO PRIORITIZE THE USE OF
THE CLEANEST AVAILABLE
TECHNOLOGY USING THEIR OWN
ADOPTED PERFORMANCE STANDARDS.
TO DEPLOY WHILE WE'RE WAITING
FOR ZERO TO BECOME
COMMERCIALIZED IN AVAILABLE FOR
USE. WE LOOK FORWARD TO TALKING
TO YOU MORE ABOUT THIS. THANK
YOU. THANK YOU. THANK YOU VERY
MUCH. MR CHAIR MEMBERS, JOHN
WINGER ON BEHALF OF THE
CALIFORNIA FUELS AND CONVENIENCE
ALLIANCE, SO WE REPRESENT
EVERYBODY BELOW THE REFINING
LEVEL FROM FUEL HAULERS TO
MARKETERS TO RETAIL GAS STATIONS
, UM, JUST VERY SPECIFICALLY ON
THE FUEL HALLER SIDE. I WOULD
SAY WE CONTINUE TO HAVE CONCERNS
WITH THE ELECTRIFICATION OF
CLASS SEVEN IN CLASS EIGHT, UH,
VEHICLES, HEAVY DUTY VEHICLES.
WE'RE GOING TO BE HAULING FUEL
FOR THE NEXT 25 YEARS, AT LEAST
AND DOING THAT, IN AN ELECTRIC
TRUCK BRINGS A LOT OF SAFETY
CONCERNS. FROM OUR PERSPECTIVE.
I DON'T THINK WE WANT TO SEE ANY
FUEL HAULING TRUCKS THAT ARE
ELECTRIFIED. CRASHING UM SO JUST
WOULD LIKE TO POINT THAT OUT. ON
THE BROAD SCALE. I THINK IT'S
VERY CLEAR THAT WE'RE GOING TO
CONTINUE TO REDUCE GASOLINE
SUPPLY IN THE STATE, AND WE'RE
NOT SEEING A VERY MEANINGFUL
REDUCTION IN DEMAND WITH THIS E
V ONLY STRATEGY. I THINK WE HAVE
TO ADOPT ALTERNATIVE FUELS VERY
AGGRESSIVELY IN THE NEXT DECADE
IN ORDER TO REDUCE DEMAND IN
BALANCE THAT SUPPLY AND DEMAND
WE'RE ALSO GOING TO SEE
SIGNIFICANT INCREASES AT THE
PUMP, WHICH WERE CONTINUING TO
SEE PRICE VOLATILITY THERE. AND
SO WHAT? WE'RE HAVING THIS
DISCUSSION, AND WHILE WE'RE
HAVING THE DISCUSSION ON GAS
PRICES WOULD JUST LIKE TO KEEP
IN MIND THAT ALTERNATIVE FUELS
ARE CLEAN. THEY CAN REDUCE OUR
EMISSIONS SIGNIFICANTLY IN THE
NEAR TERM. AND SO WE WOULD
APPRECIATE A CONVERSATION ON
THAT. THANKS. THANK YOU. THANK
YOU MEMBERS. ROB SPIEGEL, SENIOR
POLICY DIRECTOR FOR THE
CALIFORNIA MANUFACTURERS AND
TECHNOLOGY ASSOCIATION,
DEFINITELY APPRECIATE THE FORUM
THAT WAS PROVIDED TODAY TO TALK
THROUGH NOT ONLY ISSUES WITH CAP
AND TRADE BUT ALSO IN PARTICULAR
THE SCOPING PLAN. I THINK FOR
MANY OF MY COLLEAGUES IN
ALIGNING A LOT WITH WHAT MY
COLLEAGUE FROM CEB HAD SAID THE
INFRASTRUCTURE CAPACITY OF WHAT
IT REQUIRED, I THINK IS IT'S NOT
LOST ON THE LEGISLATURE. BENNETT
IS UNPRECEDENTED. WE'RE TALKING
72 GIGS OF NEW SOLAR. ON TOP OF
ABOUT 47 NEW GIG GIGAWATTS OF
BATTERY BATTERY STORAGE. AND TO
KEEP A MATTER OF PERSPECTIVE
DIABLO CANYON, WHICH WE JUST
EXTENDED LAST YEAR'S A MAXIMUM
CAPACITY OF ABOUT 2.2 GIGAWATTS,
SO THE CHALLENGES WITH
INFRASTRUCTURE THERE WERE
TALKING OF ACCELERATION RATES
OVER THE NEXT 13 YEARS OF ABOUT
700. BUT I THINK WITH THAT AS
WELL, I DO HAVE TO TAKE A LITTLE
BIT OF A PAUSE TO TALK ABOUT THE
HYDROGEN TRANSITION, AND SO FOR
CM TO WERE BOTH INVOLVED,
OBVIOUSLY, A CARBON AT THE PUC
AND THE LONG TERM GAS PLANNING
STAFF REPORT THAT JUST CAME OUT
AND WE PROVIDED COMMENTS ON JUST
LAST WEEK IDENTIFIES HYDROGEN IS
THAT FUEL THAT COULD BE UTILIZED
TO MOVE AWAY FROM FOSSIL GAS?
AND IF WE'RE MOVING IN THIS
DIRECTION NOW OF AH, I GUESS
CHOOSE NOT NECESSARILY CHOOSING,
BUT BUT ELIMINATING, UH,
ELIMINATING OPTIONS. THEN WHAT
IS LEFT FOR THE INDUSTRY THAT I
REPRESENT HAVE LEFT FOR AN
INDUSTRY THAT CONTRIBUTES $300
BILLION THE ECONOMY AND EMPLOYS
1.3 MILLION CALIFORNIANS. SO I
THINK WE NEED TO TREAD
CAUTIOUSLY AS WE LOOK AT THAT
HYDROGEN TRANSITION AND HOW WE
PROVIDE THOSE OPPORTUNITIES FOR
THE HARD TO DE CARBONIZED SECTOR
OF MANUFACTURING. THANK YOU FOR
THE OPPORTUNITY TO COMMENT, LOOK
FORWARD TO BEING A PARTICIPANT
AND LATER MEETINGS. THANK YOU.
NO, THANK YOU. MY NAME IS GARY
HUGHES AND I WORKED AS THE
AMERICAS PROGRAM COORDINATOR
WITH THE INTERNATIONAL
ORGANIZATION. BIOFUEL WATCH.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR STAYING
LATE AND THANK YOU FOR GIVING
THE PUBLIC AN OPPORTUNITY TO
PARTICIPATE. I'LL TRY TO MAKE
THE BEST USE I CAN OF MY MINUTE.
UM, OUR ORGANIZATION
PARTICIPATED ACTIVELY IN MANY OF
THE WORKSHOPS OVER THE LAST
COUPLE OF YEARS IN THE
DEVELOPMENT OF THE SCOPING PLAN
UPDATE. AND WE TRIED TO
COMMUNICATE OUR CONCERNS ABOUT
WHERE THE SCOPING PLAN WAS GOING
NUMBER ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE
REALLY TRIED TO COMMUNICATE.
CONCERN ABOUT WAS THE HIGH
PROFILE ROLE OF SPECULATIVE
TECHNOLOGIES. MANY OF THESE
TECHNOLOGIES HAVE KNOWN RISKS
FOR HUMAN RIGHTS AND THE
ENVIRONMENT. YET THE AIR
RESOURCES BOARD REALLY DIDN'T
WANT TO ENTERTAIN A MORE IN
DEPTH DISCUSSION ABOUT THOSE
DANGEROUS ANOTHER THING REALLY
IS THE REINFORCEMENT OF THE
POLITICAL CONVENIENCE OF THE
CONVERSION OF FOSSIL FUEL
INFRASTRUCTURE TO BIOENERGY
INFRASTRUCTURE. SO REGARDLESS OF
THE MOUNTING EVIDENCE REGARDING
THE CLIMATE IN HUMAN RIGHTS FROM
, UH IMPACTS FROM INDUSTRIAL
BIOENERGY, THE AIR RESOURCES
BOARD WENT AHEAD AND PROMOTED
THIS POLITICAL CONVENIENCE. UM
AS AN EXAMPLE AROUND THE WORLD,
THE CLIMATE BENEFITS OF SO
CALLED SUSTAINABLE AVIATION
FIELDS ARE BEING CONTESTED. THE
SCHOOLING SCOPING PLAN
REINFORCES ERRONEOUS ASSUMPTIONS
SUPPORTING THESE EMISSIONS
INTENSIVE BIOENERGY OPTIONS AS A
CLIMATE SOLUTION. THE CONTEXT
REALLY IS WHAT'S BEEN HAPPENING
IN THE SAN FRANCISCO BAY AREA
AROUND THE CONVERSION OF
REFINERIES TO LIQUID BIOFUELS,
AND WHAT WE'RE FACING, REALLY IS
A CRISIS OF GOVERNANCE AT THE
COUNTY LEVEL AT THE STATE LEVEL
AND AT THE AIR DISTRICT LEVEL,
SO THESE ARE THE CONCERNS THAT
WE TRIED TO COMMUNICATE, AND I
REALLY DO APPRECIATE YOU GIVING
US A CHANCE TO SPEAK TODAY.
THANK YOU. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
OH, GOOD AFTERNOON. GOOD MORNING
, MR CHAIRMAN MEMBERS. I'M JOHN
WHITE WITH THE CENTER FOR ENERGY
EFFICIENCY. RENEWABLE
TECHNOLOGIES. I THANK THE
COMMITTEE FOR ITS TIME AND ITS
OPPORTUNITY TO TESTIFY. I WENT
TO ALL OF THE LISTENING SESSIONS
FOR THE SCOPING PLAN, SO I HAVE
A PRETTY GOOD IDEA OF WHERE IT
GOT BETTER AND WHERE IT DIDN'T.
UM BUT I THINK THE KEY MESSAGE
FROM THE ANALYST FROM THE L A.
OH, IS WE NEED IMPLEMENTATION
PLAN SCOPING PLAN IS SORT OF A
ROAD MAP, BUT IT DOESN'T HAVE
BENCHMARKS OF PROGRESS. I
ACTUALLY DON'T THINK THE CHAIR
IS CORRECTED. GREENHOUSE GAS
EMISSIONS ARE GOING DOWN. I
THINK THEY ARE FLAT AND MAYBE
SLIM INCREASES BECAUSE OF ALL
THE FOSSIL FUELS THAT WE'RE
STILL BURNING FOR THE GOVERNOR'S
RELIABILITY REQUIREMENTS, SO I
THINK WHAT WE NEED IS AN
IMPLEMENTATION PLAN SO THAT WE
CAN ASSESS WHERE THE PROGRESS IS
BEING MADE AND WHERE IT'S NOT
BEING MADE. AND I THINK A HARD
LOOK AT CAP AND TRADE NEEDS TO
BE PART OF THIS, ALONG WITH A
HARD LOOK AT THE COSTS AND
IMPACTS OF CARBON CAPTURE. THESE
ARE THE TWO TECHNOLOGIES THAT
ARE KIND OF HOW WE PRETEND WE'RE
GOING TO GET THERE. BUT I'M NOT
CONVINCED THAT THEY'RE GOING TO
GET US THERE. UM, CAP AND TRADE
HAS A HISTORY OF OVER PROMISING
AND UNDER DELIVERING, UM AND
IT'S JUST THE CASE. UM BUT
EMPHASIS IN AIR QUALITY. WE HAVE
A SIMILAR IMPLEMENTATION IS
CALLED THE STATE IMPLEMENTATION
PLAN, WHICH HAS ALL OF THE AIR
QUALITY REGULATIONS ALL OF THE
TIMETABLES FOR ADOPTION BY THE
AIR DISTRICTS AND AIR RESOURCES
BOARD. WE NEED SOMETHING LIKE
THAT. OR UH, CLIMATE CHANGE.
THANK YOU LOOK FORWARD TO FUTURE
CONVERSATION ON THAT. OKAY.
THANK YOU, EVERYBODY. FOR THOSE
OF YOU WHO ARE HERE IN PERSON? I
KNOW. WE HAVE A FEW CALLS SOME
FOLKS ON THE LINES IF WE CAN GO
TO THE MODERATOR ON THE PHONE
LINES. THANK YOU. LADIES AND
GENTLEMEN, THE PHONE LIGHTS IF
YOU WOULD LIKE TO COMMENT ON
TODAY'S CLIMATE CHANGE, CALL,
PLEASE PRESS ONE, FOLLOWED BY
THE 01, FOLLOWED BY THE ZERO AT
THIS TIME FOR PUBLIC COMMENT.
LINE SIX. PLEASE GO AHEAD. YES
HELLO. MY NAME IS OLIVIA SIDEMEN
WITH LEADERSHIP COUNCIL FOR
JUSTICE AND ACCOUNTABILITY WHERE
COMMUNITY BASED ENVIRONMENTAL
JUSTICE OR WHILE WE APPRECIATE
THAT THE PLAN HAS AMBITION,
AMBITIOUS TARGETS FOR VM T
REDUCTIONS AND NO NEW GAS POWER
PLANTS SHOPPING PLAN LARGELY
FAILED COMMUNITIES ACROSS INLAND
CALIFORNIA FOR FAR TOO LONG HAVE
BORNE JUST PROPORTIONATE
BURDENS, POLLUTING INDUSTRIES
AND THE EFFECTS OF THE CLIMATE
CRISIS. WE MUST CRAFT AND
IMPLEMENT CLIMATE CHANGE
POLICIES THAT PROTECT AND
PROMOTE HEALTH AND
DISPROPORTIONATELY BURDENED
COMMUNITY. WE SHOULD HAVE MADE
THAT COMMITMENT LONG AGO. BUT
LET'S NOW LET'S DO SO NOW.
THROUGHOUT THE SCOPING PLAN
PROCESS THE ADVOCATED FOR CARD
TO IMPROVE THE LOW CARBON FUEL
STANDARD PROGRAM TO ENSURE THAT
IT IS EFFECTIVELY REACHING OUR
CLIMATE GOALS WHILE ALSO
PROMOTING ENVIRONMENTAL JUSTICE.
IN THE CURRENT LCF S FACTORY
FARM GAS OTHERWISE KNOWN AS
DAIRY MANURE DERIVED BIO METHANE
IS CONSIDERED A CARBON NEGATIVE
FUEL, WHICH IS BOTH INACCURATE
AND CREATES MASSIVE PROFIT
POTENTIAL FOR THE INCREASED
PRODUCTION OF MANURE AND
CONSEQUENT METHANE WATER AND AIR
POLLUTION IN THE SCOPING PLAN,
FAILED TO ADDRESS AND IN FACT
DOUBLED DOWN ON THE PERVERSE
OUTCOMES OF THIS PROGRAM BY
ELIMINATING FACTORY FARM GAS
FROM THE PROGRAM. OR AT THE VERY
LEAST, ELIMINATING CONSIDERATION
OF AVOIDED METHANE, ENSURING
THAT ALLEGED EMISSION REDUCTIONS
WOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED WITHOUT
L. C. F S CREDIT. CALCULATING
THE PHONE, ACCURATE LIFECYCLE
ANALYSIS, FACTORY, FARM GAS
PRODUCTION AND DEPLOYMENT AND
PROHIBITING FUELS AND PATHWAYS
THAT IMPACT WATER AND AIR
POLLUTION AND COMMUNITIES.
FURTHERMORE CONTINUING THE
PRACTICE OF RELYING ON BIO
METHANE PRODUCTION TO SOLVE
DAIRY METHANE PROBLEMS IS NOT
WORKING. INSTEAD WE MUST
DIRECTLY REGULATE EMISSIONS AS
WE DO IN OTHER INDUSTRIES, WHICH
CARD HAS THE AUTHORITY TO DO?
BEGINNING IN 2024 CARB FAILED TO
INCLUDE IN THE STOPPING PLANNED
DIRECTION TO BEGIN A RULEMAKING
PROCESS IN 2023 TO DEVELOP AN
EFFECTIVE REGULATORY SCHEME TO
ENSURE REQUISITE LATINO
EMISSIONS REDUCTIONS FROM
MYSELF? OPERATIONS THANK YOU.
THANK YOU SO MUCH. ALRIGHT. NEXT
CALL. NEXT. WE'RE GONNA LINE 16.
PLEASE GO AHEAD. ALRIGHT, THANKS
. THIS IS JUST ON WITH JUSTICE.
I HAVE A LOT LONGER COMMENTS
THAT I'LL TRY TO JUST FOCUS ON
ONE THING. I JUST WANT TO
EMPHASIZE THAT THERE THERE SEEMS
TO BE IN THESE CONVERSATIONS AND
IMPRESSION THAT WE'RE ALREADY
DOING THE MAXIMUM WE COULD BE
DOING USING SCALABLE COST
EFFECTIVE AND AVAILABLE
TECHNOLOGY THAT ELIMINATES THE
RELIANCE ON FOSSIL FUEL
COMBUSTION, NAMELY, RENEWABLE
ENERGY, ENERGY EFFICIENCY. AND
ELECTRIFICATION OF END USES. AND
THAT'S JUST NOT TRUE. WE LIKE TO
THINK OF CALIFORNIA AS A LEADER
, BUT THE FACT IS IN THE LAST
TWO YEARS EUROPE BECAUSE INSTEAD
OF GREENHOUSE GAS EMISSIONS
REDUCTION TARGET OF 55% BY 2030
, AND THEY'RE NOT MEETING UP
THEIR FANCIFUL TECHNOLOGY OR
SHUFFLING OF A MISSION. THEY ARE
SCALING OVER 15 FOLD. THE
DEPLOYMENT OF THEY ARE ACHIEVING
ZEB SALES IN THE PASSENGER
SECTOR THAT CALIFORNIA HAS SET
FOR ITSELF IN 2026. THERE ARE
ALREADY ACHIEVING TODAY. IT'S
NOT WORTHY THAT THOSE THOSE
COUNTRIES FRANCE, GERMANY, THE
UK ALL STARTED BEHIND CALIFORNIA
AND HAVE SIMPLY PROGRESS ZERO
THERE SHOULD VEHICLE SALES.
MASSIVELY EXPANDED PUBLIC
TRANSPORTATION. ELECTRIFIED AND
USES AN INDUSTRY WHICH 50% OF
INDUSTRIAL INDUSTRIAL HEAT
EMISSIONS CAN BE ELECTRIFIED. I
KNOW THEY'RE FACING A
GEOPOLITICAL CRISIS THAT PUSHES
THEM TO ACCELERATE THEIR
REDUCTIONS IN GAS AND
COPPERFIELD RELIANCE. BUT IF
CALIFORNIA BELIEVES THAT CLIMATE
CRISIS IS A CRISIS, WE COULD WE
COULD BE DOING WHAT THEY ARE
DOING. THERE'S NOTHING THAT
MAKES CALIFORNIA'S CHALLENGES
UNIQUELY WORSE IN TERMS OF
TRANSMISSION AND DISTRIBUTION
AND INFRASTRUCTURE, WHICH JUST
SO WE CAN BE CLEAR.
ENVIRONMENTAL GROUPS AND
ESPECIALLY FRONTLINE COMMUNITIES
HAVE BEEN SO MUCH LOCAL
ADVOCATES TO ENABLE THESE AND I
JUST WANT TO MAKE CLEAR THAT WE
ARE SUPPORTIVE OF EVERY AGENCY
TO ENABLE A FASTER TRANSITION
OFF FOSSIL FUELS. THANK YOU.
THANK YOU NEXT CALLER. THANK YOU
LIKE 24, YOU ARE OPEN. MR
CHAIRMAN, MEMBERS OF THE
COMMITTEE LOUIS BROWN, CALLING
TODAY ON BEHALF OF THE
CALIFORNIA ADVANCED BIOFUELS
ALLIANCE. WE APPRECIATE THE
OPPORTUNITY TO TESTIFY TODAY
APPRECIATE YOUR ATTENTION IN
THIS MATTER WE'VE WRITTEN IN
SUPPORT OF THE SCOPING PLAN,
PRIMARILY BECAUSE OF THE ROAD
MAP THAT IT PROVIDES FOR
RENEWABLE BIOFUELS LIKE
RENEWABLE DIESEL AND BIODIESEL.
THESE ARE. DIESEL REPLACEMENT
THAT CAN BE USED TODAY AND IF
DONE, SO WE'LL SEE SIGNIFICANT
REDUCTIONS IN GREENHOUSE GAS
EMISSIONS CRITERIA. POLLUTANTS
LIKE PARTICULAR MATTER AND THC,
SO WE SUPPORT THE EFFORT OF
MOVING FORWARD AND PROVIDING
THAT PATHWAY WITH THAT BEING
SAID AS ONE OF YOUR MEMBERS SAID
YOUR PANEL MEMBER SAID TODAY
CERTAINTY THAT'S ABSOLUTELY
CRITICAL GOING FORWARD. THESE
INVESTMENTS ARE SIGNIFICANT
MILLIONS, IF NOT BILLIONS OF
DOLLARS, BUT WE NEED THAT
CERTAINTY FOR THE THAT
INVESTMENT TO CONTINUE MOVING
FORWARD SO WE CAN PROVIDE THESE
RENEWABLE FUELS AND GET
CALIFORNIA TO ITS GOALS. THANK
YOU VERY MUCH. LOOK FORWARD TO
WORKING WITH YOU IN THE FUTURE.
JUST ONE MINUTE. I LOVE THAT
NEXT NEXT CALLER, PLEASE. WE'RE
GOING TO LINE 23, YOU ARE OPEN.
ALL RIGHT. GOOD AFTERNOON. UH,
MEMBERS OF THE ASSEMBLY. THIS IS
STEVEN ROSEN, LONGTIME MEMBER OF
CLIMATE ACTION, CALIFORNIA AND
WE'VE BEEN VERY ACTIVE IN
COMMENTING ON THE CARD STOPPING
PLAN, EXACTLY, SAID DETAILED
COMMENTS ON JUNE 22ND 2022. THEY
SEEM TO HAVE BEEN TOLD WE
IGNORED. UM I SIT IN THE SHORT
TIME. I HAVE. I JUST LIKE TO
MAKE A COUPLE OF POINTS. UH
FIRST OF ALL, THE KEY TO THE
CARBON TREE ECONOMY AS
ELECTRIFICATION OF EVERYTHING,
SO ANYTHING ELSE THAT WE DO IS
BASICALLY A BAND AID, SO WE NEED
TO WORK ON THAT AS A PRIMARY
THING, AND IN THE SHORT TERM
THAT MEANS WE NEED TO HAVE MORE
RENEWABLE ENERGY GENERATION. AND
BY THAT I MEAN WIND AND SOLAR
THAN GEOTHERMAL AND STORAGE,
WHICH INCLUDES BATTERIES AND
HYDROGEN IN SOME CASES. UM TCS
IS NOT WORKING. IT'S NEVER
WORKED ANYWHERE. IT'S BEEN TRIED
AND IT'S NOT WORTH GAMBLING, OUR
FUTURE TECHNOLOGY THAT'S
UNPROVEN. AT THIS POINT. WE'RE
IN AN EMERGENCY. WE ONLY HAVE 10
YEARS MAKE PROGRESS. IPCC HAS
ALREADY SAID THAT WE'RE GOING TO
HIT 1.7 DEGREES CELSIUS BY 2030
IF WE DON'T DO ANYTHING AND THE
COLORS OF HYDROGEN AS THE LAST
POINT OR JUST MARKETING HYPE.
THE QUESTION TO ASK IS HOW MANY
KILOGRAMS OF CARBON DIOXIDE
EQUIVALENT OR EMITTED PRODUCED
ONE KG OF HYDROGEN. HERE WE
SUGGEST THIS IS TWO KG OF CARBON
DIOXIDE EQUIVALENT KILOGRAMS,
AND THAT SHOULD BE THE UPPER
LIMIT. UH THANK YOU. WE'RE HAPPY
TO TALK TO ANY PEOPLE IN THE
LEGISLATURE THAT OVER LINCOLN
DISCUSSIONS FURTHER. THANK YOU.
THANK YOU, SIR. THANK YOU. NEXT
CALLER. 25, PLEASE GO AHEAD. HI
THIS IS DANIEL CHANDLER. I AM
WITH 3 50, HUMBOLDT AND ALSO A
CLIMATE ACTION, CALIFORNIA. AND
WE DID AS SHE ROSENBAUM JUST
SAID, ADMIT COMMENTS. UH WE ALSO
MET WITH A NUMBER OF THE CAR
BOARD MEMBERS AND OUR POINT WAS
VERY SIMPLE AND THAT IS THAT
IT'S A FRAMEWORK FOR THE SCOPING
PLAN DID NOT START WITH THE
SCIENCE, WHICH IS THE PCC
REPORTS FROM 2022. THEY'RE
SAYING VERY CLEARLY. WE HAVE TO
REDUCE 50% FROM WHERE WE ARE NOW
, NOT FROM 1990 BY 2030 TO HAVE
EVEN A 50% CHANCE OF, UH,
HITTING NOTE 1.5. I DON'T SEE A
SCHOOL. SO JUST SCORPION PLAN
WAS MISGUIDED FROM THE START.
SECOND POINT IS THAT AH, JUST
SHORT LIVED CLIMATE POLLUTANTS.
SECTIONS WERE VERY. WHO ARE
REALLY DONE THAT THE OVERALL UH
DESCRIPTION WAS GREAT. BUT THANK
YOU FOR AGRICULTURAL METHOD.
THERE'S NOT A CHANCE WE'RE GOING
TO GET THAT 40% WE NEED
REGULATION, AND THERE'S NOTHING
IN, UH, IN THE SCOPING PLAN.
THIS EDUCATION THAT'S GOING TO
HAPPEN SO MUCH. YEAH SO SORRY.
I'M SO SORRY. YOU KNOW, WE HAVE.
WE HAVE TO BE SO BRUTAL HERE
BECAUSE THERE'S A THERE'S
LITERALLY ANOTHER COMMITTEE
STARTING AT ONE HERE IN THIS
ROOM. I BELIEVE SO I REALLY DO.
APOLOGIZE THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
THANK YOU, SIR. THANK YOU FOR
YOUR COMMENTS. LET'S HEAR FROM
THE NEXT CALLER. THANK YOU.
WE'RE GONNA LINE NINE. PLEASE GO
AHEAD. HELLO, CHAIRMAN MEMBERS.
MY NAME IS EVAN EDGAR FROM EDGAR
ASSOCIATES ON BEHALF OF THE
CALIFORNIA CLIMATE COMMITTEE AND
COMPOSTING AND WE'VE BEEN DE
CARBONIZED IN THE WASTE SECTOR.
SINCE 1990. WE ARE THE ORGANIC
WASTE HAULERS AND PICK UP THE
FOOD AND GREEN EXCEPT THE CURB
FROM RESTAURANTS, COMPOST IT AND
WE MAKE RENEWABLE NATURAL GAS,
AND WE PUT IT RIGHT BACK IN THE
SAME TRUCK THAT MADE THAT PICKED
UP THE ORGANICS IS BACK TO THE
FUTURE. PART TWO. AND WE'VE BEEN
GETTING OFF DIESEL AND LANDFILLS
FOR 20 YEARS AND WE'D LIKE TO
CONTINUE ON 15,000 TRUCKS IN THE
REFUGE FLEET AND HALF THEM ON
CNG TODAY USING ORANGEY
RENEWABLE NATURAL GET OUT. IT'S
A GREAT PROGRAM. SO WHEN YOU
LOOK AT THE SCOPING PLAN,
COUPLED WITH EVENTS, CLEAN FLEET
RURAL THEY THE WAY IT'S MODEL.
IS THAT WAITING FOR
ELECTRIFICATION HAPPEN. YEARS
FROM NOW WE'RE BEING STUCK ON
DIESEL FOR NEXT 13TH 18 YEARS,
SO EVEN WITHIN A SCOPING PLAN
THAT MODEL THAT HEY, STAY ON
DIESEL GUYS UNTIL DEATH COME
ALONG WELL WERE HIGHLY
SUCCESSFUL. NOW THAT R AND G. WE
LIKE TO CONTINUE ON, SO WE'RE
LOOKING FOR A CARVE OUT AS PART
OF THE VAST CLEAN FLEET RULE TO
MAKE SURE THAT WE CAN CONTINUE.
TO EITHER R AND G FOR THE NEXT
18 YEARS INSTEAD OF REVERTING
BACK TO DIESEL, WHICH IS WHAT
WE'RE BEING TOLD, AND THE
ACTIONS LIKE CARBON MAKING A
STAY ON DIESEL, AND WE WANT TO
GET OFF DIESEL. WE WANT ALL
15,000 SLEEP ON ORANGEY THAT WE
CAN MAKE OUT OF LANDFILL GAS AND
WE CAN MAKE OUT ANAEROBIC
DIGESTION. SO THAT'S WHAT WE'RE
ASKING FOR THE DAY TO GET A
LEGISLATIVE CARVE OUT FROM VAST
CLEAN FLEET RULE SO WE DON'T
HAVE TO GO BACK TO ON DIESEL THE
NEXT DECADE. THANK YOU. THANK
YOU. THANKS, CALLER. 21, YOU ARE
OPEN. CAN YOU HEAR ME? PLEASE
PROCEED. MY NAME IS THANK YOU.
MY NAME IS FARAJ ROSIE AND I'M
CALLING ON BEHALF OF THE ASIAN
ENVIRONMENTAL NETWORK FOR A PEN.
I WANT TO THANK THE JOINT
COMMITTEES FOR THIS CRUCIAL
JOINT HEARING A PEN REPRESENT
ENVIRONMENTAL JUSTICE
COMMUNITIES IN RICHMOND, OAKLAND
AND NOW IN WILMINGTON'S HAVE
LONG LIVED UNDER THE SHADOW OF
THE STATE'S OIL REFINERIES. NOT
MENTIONED TODAY IS THAT THE
SCOPING TIME POINTS TO THE NEED
FOR A MULTI AGENCY WORKGROUP TO
PROACTIVELY PLANNED FOR AND
COORDINATE A PETROLEUM BASED IN
TANDEM WITH THE DECLINE AND
INSTINCT DEMAND. WHILE THIS IS A
HUGE STEP FORWARD, IT IS
UNFORTUNATE THAT THERE WAS NOT
MORE ROBUST DISCUSSION ABOUT
THIS PHASE OUT EVEN IF THE PLAN
FAILS TO SET CLEAR TIMELINES,
AND IT GOES. IT'S MULTI AGENCY
PLANNING PROCESS WE'RE LOOKING
AT TO YOU ALL IN THE LEGISLATURE
TO MOVE QUICKLY TO SET CLEAR
TIMELINES GOALS. FOR AGENCY
COORDINATION TO FACE DOWN OIL
PRODUCTION IS DEMANDING CLIENTS.
UNNECESSARY DELAYS IN THE PHASE
OUT OF COLLUSION, INCLUDING
SECTORS, WHICH IS OIL FIGHTERS
WERE ONLY CONSECRATED DISRUPTION
TO LOCAL ECONOMIES, COMMUNITIES
AND WORKERS CAN'T RELATE TO CAP
AND TRADE. THE L. A REPORT
ECHOES ARE EJ CONCERNS. DOCTORS
LIKE OIL REFINERIES, CAP AND
TRADE IS ACTUALLY ENABLED.
INCREASED EMISSION OIL
REFINERIES ARE NOT THE LARGEST
STATIONARY SOURCE OF GHG
EMISSIONS IN CALIFORNIA AND
WITHOUT SUCCESSION, SUBSTANTIAL
REFORMS, CAP AND TRADE,
ABSOLUTION NOT BEING SAID, AND
BEYOND 2030. I WANT TO END MY
COMMENT WITH THE NEED TO FURTHER
INTERROGATE THE ROLE OF MARKET
BASED MECHANISMS AS PART OF
CALIFORNIA'S CLIMATE POLICY, CAP
AND TRADE IS ONE EXAMPLE. AND WE
URGE THE LEGISLATURE
SIMULTANEOUSLY LOOK AT THE LOW
CARBON FUEL STANDARDS, WHICH IS
ALSO PROVEN TO HAVE MUCH OF THE
SAME DIFFICULTIES YOUR LINE IN
ALIGNING BUT THE STATE ZERO
MISSION GOALS. THANK YOU. THANK
YOU NEXT CALLER. WE'VE GOT A
LINE 15 YOU ARE OPEN. AFTERNOON
MR TERROR MEMBERS VIRGIL WEALTH
WITH THE CALIFORNIA CARBON
SOLUTIONS COALITION. LAST YEAR.
BOTH THE ADMINISTRATION AND
LEGISLATURE WORKED VERY HARD TO
DEVELOP AND ULTIMATELY PASSED.
SENATE BILL 905, WHICH LAYS OUT
DETAILED CRITERIA FOR HOW CARBON
CAPTURE TECHNOLOGIES CAN SUPPORT
CALIFORNIA'S CLIMATE GOAL,
INCLUDING DIRECT AND CARBON
DEVELOPMENT PROGRAM, WHICH THEY
WILL COMMENCE IN THE COMING
MONTHS. THE SCOPING PLAN
RECOGNIZES THAT A HOST OF
TECHNOLOGIES ARE GOING TO BE
NECESSARY TO ACHIEVE OUR CLIMATE
GOALS. C T. U S IS ONE OF THESE
. WE ARE UNIQUELY POSITIONED IN
CALIFORNIA TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF
CCS. WE HAVE DOZENS OF
INDUSTRIES DEPLOY THESE
TECHNOLOGIES COST EFFECTIVELY
REDUCE EMISSIONS. WE HAVE WORLD
CLASS GEOLOGY, SKILLED WORKFORCE
TO BEGIN DEPLOYING THESE
CRITICALLY NEEDED PROJECTS AND
DIDN'T WANT TO KNOW THAT THERE
ARE HUNDREDS OF CCS PROJECTS AND
OPERATION AND ADVANCED STAGES OF
DEPLOYMENT AROUND THE WORLD
TODAY, WORKING TO CAPTURE AND
PERMANENTLY STORE EMISSIONS.
THERE ARE A MULTITUDE OF
COMPANIES THAT ARE READY TO GO
IN CALIFORNIA, AND I WOULD
CONCLUDE BY SAYING TO TEE OFF
WHAT CHAIR RANDOLPH SAID
EARLIER. WE HAVE THE GOALS NOW
IS THE TIME TO BEGIN DEVELOPING
TECHNOLOGIES TO MEET THOSE GOALS
, AS SHE SAID THE GREAT
IMPLEMENTATION APPRECIATE THE
OPPORTUNITY TO COMMENT TODAY,
AND WE WELCOME THE OPPORTUNITY
TO PROVIDE ADDITIONAL
INFORMATION. APPRECIATE IT.
THANK YOU. NEXT NEXT CALLER. BY
19. YOU ARE OPEN. THANK YOU,
MICHAEL BOOK ADORO ON BEHALF OF
THE ENERGY CONSUMERS
ASSOCIATION. UM IT'S ALWAYS
UNFORTUNATE TO HEAR
MISREPRESENTATIONS ABOUT DAIRY
METHANE REDUCTION EFFORTS IN THE
STATE. THE REALITY IS, ACCORDING
TO A VERY RECENT UC DAVIS REPORT
THAT THAT PROGRAM IS NOT ONLY ON
TRACK TO ACHIEVE THE PRODUCTIONS
OF STATES LOOKING FOR BUT COULD
LIKELY EXCEED THE METHANE
REDUCTIONS ASSOCIATED WITH THE
DAIRY SECTOR IN PARTICULAR. UM
REALLY IMPORTANT AS WE MOVE
FORWARD, WE NOT CONSIDER OPTIONS
FOR DIRECT REGULATION THAT WOULD
HAVE THE OPPOSITE EFFECT OF
MASSIVE, MASSIVE NOTHING LEAKAGE
TO OTHER STATES AND OTHER
REGIONS WHERE PRODUCTION WOULD
SIMPLY OCCUR, CREATING HIGHER
METHANE AND THEN FINALLY, ON ONE
FINAL NOTE, UH, CENTER AROUND
VERY MUCH APPRECIATE YOUR
COMMENTS TODAY. I'M THE CRAZY
IDEA OF PUTTING HYDROGEN INTO
EXISTING PIPELINES. SOCAL GAS IS
PROPOSING TO DO HERE IN
CALIFORNIA THAT WOULD HAVE HUGE
ECONOMIC, ENVIRONMENTAL AND
PUBLIC SAFETY IMPACTS FOR
RESIDENTS OF THE STATE. BAD
IDEA. WE NEED TO PUT IT TO BED.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK YOU
NEXT CALLER. 17, PLEASE GO
AHEAD. THANK YOU GOOD AFTERNOON
CHAIRS AND COMMITTEE MEMBERS.
VALERIE TRAIL VLAHOS ON BEHALF
OF PACIFIC GAS AND ELECTRIC
COMPANY. WE BELIEVE CARBS
SCOPING PLAN SCENARIO
ESTABLISHES THE RIGHT FRAMEWORK
FOR 2045 CARBON NEUTRALITY WITH
A BALANCED ECONOMY WIDE ALL
TOOLS AND THE TOOLBOX APPROACH.
WE ASK THAT YOU FOCUS ON FOUR
THEMES WE HEARD TODAY. CONTINUED
IN CLOSE COORDINATION ACROSS THE
STATES ENERGY AGENCIES WE WANT
TO ENSURE CONSISTENT POLICIES
AND FUNDING TO SUPPORT THAT
COORDINATION. SUPPORTING
MEASURES THAT WILL PROMOTE
AFFORDABILITY OF OUR CUSTOMER
BILLS, ESPECIALLY FUNDING
SOURCES OUTSIDE THE CUSTOMER
BUILT I WANTED TO ALSO NOTE THAT
WE ARE AWARE OF THE CHALLENGES
IN THE CAPACITY OF THE GRID, AND
WE'RE ACTIVELY EVALUATING OUR
PROCESSES WERE ENGAGING
STAKEHOLDERS FOR BETTER
COORDINATION AND WE HAVE IDEAS
OF TOOLS THE LEGISLATURE CAN
PROVIDE. WE ARE ALSO SUPPORT
SUPPORTIVE OF THE EXTENSION OF
CAP AND TRADE POSED 2030 AS A
TOOL TO HELP MEET BOTH THE 2030
AND 2045 GOALS. WE LOOK FORWARD
TO CONTINUING TO WORK WITH THIS
COMMITTEE, THE LEGISLATURE ALL
OF OUR AGENCY, PARTNERS AND ALL
INTERESTED STAKEHOLDERS. THANK
YOU. THANK YOU NEXT CALLER.
WE'RE GONNA LINE 28, PLEASE GO
AHEAD. MY NAME IS DAN RATHER AND
I'M A STAFF ATTORNEY FOR THE
CENTER AND POVERTY AND THE
ENVIRONMENT. WE PROVIDE
ORGANIZING AND TECHNICAL SUPPORT
TO ENVIRONMENTAL JUSTICE
COMMUNITIES IN THE SAN JOAQUIN
VALLEY HAVE BEEN SACRIFICED FOR
OVER A CENTURY, BOTH THE
NATION'S WORST AIR POLLUTION AND
HIGH POVERTY RATES WITH JUST ONE
MINUTE TO COME IN. I'LL FOCUS ON
ONE ISSUE CCS IS A BOONDOGGLE
DESIGNED BY THE FOSSIL FUEL
INDUSTRY TO MAINTAIN THE STATUS
QUO, SACRIFICING BOTH
COMMUNITIES AND CLIMATE FOR
PRIVATE PROFIT CARBS. PLANS FOR
SMOKESTACK CARBON CAPTURE ARE
NOT JUST IRRESPONSIBLE. ALL BUT
IMPOSSIBLE. ADDING GASTRIC
LISTING POINT SOURCES REQUIRES
MASSIVE TAXPAYER SUBSIDIES,
DRIVING MASSIVE PRIVATE
INVESTMENT INTO INFRASTRUCTURE
THAT WE SHOULD BE FACING OUT.
70% CARBON EMISSION REDUCTIONS
AT REFINERIES HAS CARVED
FORECAST IS LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE
DUE TO TECHNICAL LIMITS AND
SPACE CONSTRAINTS. FURTHER
BIOENERGY WITH CCS QUEBEC'S ONLY
MAGNIFIES THE PROBLEM BY RE
FIRING SOME OF THE WORST POINT
SOURCES OF POLLUTION IN THE
STATE AND SUPPORT OF CARBON
BENEFITS THAT EXISTS ONLY ON
PAPER. THAT'S AN OPERATION IN
REALITY, BUT ONLY INCREASED
CARBON EMISSIONS WHILE CREATING
DEVASTATING LOCAL IMPACTS. WE'VE
SEEN HORRIFIC COLLUSION BEFORE
WHEN THESE BIOMASS FACILITIES
WERE PREVIOUSLY RUNNING, AND I
HOPE THAT YOU WILL JOIN ME IN
MAKING SURE WE DON'T SEE IT
AGAIN UNDER CARBS DIRECTION.
THANK YOU. THANK YOU. THANK YOU
VERY MUCH NEXT CALLER. 9 30, YOU
ARE OPEN. LINE 30. HI GOOD
AFTERNOON CHAIRS. SORRY. MY
PHONE WAS ON MUTE. THIS IS JARED
YOSHIKI WITH THE AIRCRAFT OWNERS
AND PILOTS ASSOCIATION AND WE
ACTUALLY WANT TO ECHO OUR
COMMENTS OR ALIGN THOSE COMMENTS
WITH THOSE OF THE UNITED
AIRLINES AND JUST WANT TO MAKE
SURE THAT WE HAVE A CLEAR
DEFINITION OF WHAT AVIATION IS
GOING TO ENTAIL WITH THE SCOPING
PLANS. GENERAL AVIATION IS ONE
OF THE PRIMARY SOURCES OF FLIGHT
TRAINING THROUGHOUT THE STATE,
AND IT'S GOING TO BE VERY
DIFFICULT TO GENERAL AVIATION
AIRCRAFT ARE REQUIRED TO ADOPT
NEW TECHNOLOGIES. WITHOUT PROPER
TIMING TO GET THAT TECHNOLOGY
RIGHT, AS WELL AS TO MAKE SURE
THAT THE AERODYNAMICS OF THE
AIRPLANE ARE GOING TO BE CAPABLE
OF FLYING WITH THOSE TYPES OF
NEW YORK SO WE APPRECIATE THE
CHAIRS HAVING THE HEARING THIS
MORNING AND I WOULD LIKE TO
ACQUIRE COMMENTS AGAIN WITH
UNITED AIRLINES. THANKS SO MUCH.
THANK YOU NEXT CALLER. PLEASE GO
AHEAD LINE 29. THIS IS TONI
BRUNELLO WITH THE CALIFORNIA
FOREST CARBON COALITION JUST
WANTED TO SAY THANKS FOR THE
HEARING ALSO WERE SUPPORTIVE OF
THE SCOPING PLAN THAT WAS PUT
OUT THE CHAIR. RANDOLPH HAD
MENTIONED THE ONLY THING I
WANTED TO PUT NOTICE THAT WAS IN
THE SCOPING PLANET TALKED ABOUT
RIGHT NOW THERE IS, UH, FOREST
MANAGEMENT OF ABOUT 200,000
ACRES. THE PLAN CALLS FOR OVER
2,000,002 MILLION ACRES, UH,
MANAGED IN THE FUTURE, AND THAT
IS AN EXCEPTIONALLY CHALLENGING
PROBLEM THAT I THINK A OR B
STARTED WITH. THERE'S AN 80 17
37 WORKGROUP THAT WILL START BUT
IT IS DEFINITELY SOMETHING I
THINK IS WORTHY OF A FUTURE
MEETING AND REALLY WANT TO CALL
THE ATTENTION TO HELP FORESTS
ARE INCLUDED IN CLIMATE
STRATEGIES. THAT'S IT AND THANKS
FOR THE HEARING. THANK YOU. NEXT
CALLER. THANK YOU. MR CHAIR. WE
HAVE EXHAUSTED THE QUÊ. GREAT
WELL, REALLY DO APPRECIATE
EVERYONE'S PARTICIPATION, LOTS
AND LOTS OF MEDIA ISSUES AND
DIFFICULT ISSUES THAT WE'RE
FACING. I KNOW CHAIR STERN IS
REALLY LOOKING FORWARD TO A
NICER RANGE OF HEARINGS IN THE
COURSE OF THE YEAR. SO PLEASE BE
IN TOUCH WITH US IS THIS PROCESS
MOVES FORWARD? UH, AND WITH
THAT, I WANT TO JUST THINK THE
PANELISTS A GREAT DEAL. I WANT
TO THANK THE STAFF ESPECIALLY
ARE SET FOR ME, QUÊ, BUT ALSO
OUR FRIENDS IN THE ASSEMBLY SIDE
FOR ALL THE HARD WORK PULLING
THIS, THIS THIS HEARING TOGETHER
VERY FRUITFUL LOTS MORE TO DO.
AND WITHOUT THIS MEETING IS
ADJOURNED.