GOOD AFTERNOON. TODAY WE WILL BE
DISCUSSING BUDGET ISSUES FROM
THE DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS
AND REHABILITATION. I WANT TO
THANK SECRETARY MCCUMBER FOR
JOINING US IN PERSON IN THIS
HEARING TODAY. IN ADDITION, WE
WILL BE HEARING FROM THE
INSPECTOR GENERAL'S OFFICE ON
THEIR RECENT PRISON. CONTRABAND
AUDIT. I ALSO WANT TO WELCOME
INSPECTOR GENERAL AMHARIC SING.
TO THE HEARING AS WELL. TWO OF
OUR PANELISTS FOR ISSUE THREE
FROM THE LAW FROM ROSEN, BEAN,
GALVAN AND GRUNFELD WILL BE
JOINING OUR HEARING REMOTELY.
TODAY THE PANELISTS ARE LISTED
IN SPEAKING ORDER, AND WE WILL
HAVE QUESTIONS FROM THE
SUBCOMMITTEE AFTER THE
PRESENTATION OF EACH ITEM. WE
WILL NOT BE TAKING ANY VOTES
TODAY, AND PUBLIC COMMENT WILL
BE AVAILABLE AFTER ALL ISSUES
HAVE BEEN PRESENTED AND
DISCUSSED. AT THE END OF THE
HEARING. BEFORE WE BEGIN. WE
WILL START WITH A ROLL CALL. I
WANT HER. HERE. CHARACTER. YOU
AND SAWYER. BLACKY PATTERSON. WE
ASK ALL PANELISTS TO INTRODUCE
THEMSELVES PRIOR TO SPEAKING, WE
WILL BEGIN WITH THE ISSUE ONE
PRISON POPULATION PROJECTIONS
AND PRISON CLOSURES, STARTING
WITH SECRETARY MACOMBER WELCOME.
COMMERCE SECRETARY.
IT AS WELL. SO HE STARTS
COMMITTED TO CHALLENGING
CORRECTIONAL NORMS, CREATING A
HEALTHIER AND SAFER ENVIRONMENT
AND PREPARING INDIVIDUALS FOR
SIX SUCCESSFUL COMMUNITY
REINTEGRATION THROUGHOUT. WE
CALL THE CALIFORNIA MODEL. THE
FOUNDATION OF THE CALIFORNIA
MODEL IS BASED ON TWO PILLARS.
THE FIRST IS FOCUSED ON THE
WELLNESS OF OUR STAFF, AND THE
SECOND IS BASED ON SUPPORTING
THE UNIQUE NEEDS OF EACH
INCARCERATED PERSON IN OUR CARE.
TO SUCCESSFULLY PREPARE
INDIVIDUALS FOR ENTRY TO THEIR
COMMUNITIES WERE COMMITTED TO
MAXIMIZING RANCH WE
OPPORTUNITIES AND GIVING THE
POPULATION THE SKILLS THEY NEED
TO SUCCEED. THE SLEEVES INTO ONE
OF MY NEXT PRIORITIES, THE
EXPANSION OF REENTRY PROGRAMS.
SUCCESSFUL REINTEGRATION OF THE
COMMUNITY REQUIRES A ROBUST AND
SUPPORTIVE NETWORK OF REENTRY
PROGRAMS AND RESOURCES. SO HE
STARTS COMMITTED TO EXPANDING
ONE OF OUR MOST IMPACTFUL
PROGRAMS. COMMUNITY RHETORIC
CENTERS, WHICH WILL ALLOW MORE
INCARCERATED INDIVIDUALS HAS
SERVED THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS
OF THEIR SENTENCE BACK IN THE
COMMUNITY. WE THANK YOU FOR YOUR
SUPPORT OF THIS CRITICAL PROGRAM
THROUGH THE ADDITIONAL FUNDING
PROVIDED IN LAST YEAR'S BUDGET.
FINALLY SEE CRM CELEBRITY
TECHNOLOGY TO IMPROVE THE LIVES
OF THE INCARCERATED POPULATION
AND STAFF AS WELL. THE
DEPARTMENT HAS PRIORITIZED THE
IMPLEMENTATION OF TECHNOLOGY
TECHNOLOGICAL SOLUTIONS. WHERE
THEY CAN MAKE THE MOST IMPACT OF
THE CHALLENGES OF BOTH STAFF AND
THE INCARCERATED POPULATION THAT
THEY FACE DAILY. UH SO WE CAN
IMPROVE FAMILY REUNIFICATION.
THE IMPLEMENTATION OF FREE
CALLING FOR THE INCARCERATED
POPULATION, ALONG WITH THE
DEPLOYMENT OF TABLETS STATEWIDE
, OR JUST A FEW OF THE WAYS WE
ARE STRENGTHENED BONDS WITH
FAMILY AND FRIENDS. TECHNOLOGY
WILL BE KEY AND SHOULD BE
FOCUSED ON ACHIEVABLE SOLUTIONS.
COMPREHENSIVE DIGITAL STRATEGY,
IMPROVING ACCOUNTABILITY.
TRANSPARENCY AND COMPLIANCE TO
REDUCE LITIGATION GRIEVANCES,
INCREASED STAFF MORALE. AND
REDUCE OUR HEAVY PAPERWORK
PROCESS. THE GOVERNOR'S BUDGET
INCLUDES SEVERAL PIVOTAL EVOLVED
PROPOSALS THAT ALLOW THE
DEPARTMENT CONTINUED DEPLOYMENT
OF THE STATEWIDE AUDIO VIDEO
SURVEILLANCE SYSTEM. REFINING,
ENHANCE THE STAFF MISCONDUCT
PROCESS. AND ENSURE THE
APPROPRIATE LEVEL OF CARE AND
ACCOMMODATIONS TO THE
DEVELOPMENTALLY DISABLED,
INCARCERATED POPULATION. WE LOOK
FORWARD TO WORKING COLLABORATIVE
WITH YOU AND YOUR STAFF ON THE
BUDGET AND OUR PROPOSALS IN THE
COMING MONTHS. THANK YOU FOR THE
OPPORTUNITY TO SHARE BY PRAYERS
PRIORITIES WITH YOU TODAY AND I
LOOK FORWARD TO CONTINUED OPEN
COMMUNICATION AND COOPERATION
WITH THE COMMITTEE. SPEAKING AS
WELL. CAITLIN O'NEIL WITH THE
LEGISLATIVE ANALYST'S OFFICE.
REGARDING THE, UH, BUDGET
ADJUSTMENTS ASSOCIATED WITH
CHANGES IN THE PRISON AND
PAROLEE POPULATIONS, WHICH ARE
INCLUDED IN YOUR DISCUSSION IN
YOUR AGENDA. UM WE WITHHOLD
RECOMMENDATION AT THIS TIME,
GIVEN THAT THEY WILL BE UPDATED
AT THE MAY REVISION. AND THEN
REGARDING THE PRISONS THAT WERE
ANNOUNCED IN DECEMBER FOR
DEACTIVATION. UM CDCR INDICATES
THAT IT HAS CONSIDERED THE
FACTORS THAT IS REQUIRED TO
CONSIDER BY STATUTE AND MAKE IT
IN SELECTING PRISONS FOR
CLOSURE. HOWEVER THE DEPARTMENT
HASN'T PROVIDED INFORMATION
ABOUT HOW IT PRIORITIZE THOSE
DIFFERENT CRITERIA TO PRODUCE
THOSE SELECTIONS, AND THIS MAKES
IT DIFFICULT FOR THE LEGISLATURE
TO EVALUATE WHETHER IT AGREES
WITH THE DEPARTMENTS. UM
SELECTIONS, ESSENTIALLY BECAUSE
DIFFERENT UH, RIGHT. WAITING OR
PRIORITIZATION OF THESE FACTORS
COULD YIELD DIFFERENT CHOICES.
AND SO WE RECOMMEND DIRECTING
CDCR TO REPORT ON HOW THE
DEPARTMENT WEIGHTED CRITERIA FOR
THE PRISONERS THAT WERE
SELECTED. RECENTLY FOR
DEACTIVATION TO THE EXTENT OF
LEGISLATURE DISAGREES WITH THAT
PRIORITY CHOICE. IT COULD DIRECT
THE DEPARTMENT TO CLOSE
DIFFERENT PRISONS, OR IT COULD
DIRECT THE DEPARTMENT TO MODIFY
ITS PRIORITY APPROACH TO WAITING
THE CRITERIA. PRIORITIZING
CRITERIA GOING FORWARD.
REGARDING THIS SPECIFIC BCPS, UM
TO BEFORE YOU TODAY TO REDUCE
CDCR S BASELINE BUDGET IN LINE
WITH THE ANNOUNCED CLOSURES, WE
RECOMMEND THAT YOU WITHHOLD
ACTION GIVEN THAT THEY WILL BE
UPDATED AT MAY WITH BASED ON
MORE RECENT INFORMATION AND
TIMELINES FOR CLOSURE AT THAT
TIME. AND THE REST OF OUR
COMMENTS PERTAIN NOT TO THESE
CLOSURES THAT HAVE BEEN
ANNOUNCED, BUT TO THE BROADER
PICTURE OF PRISON CAPACITY AND
THE NEED FOR PRISON BEDS GOING
FORWARD. MORE SPECIFICALLY AFTER
ACCOUNTING FOR THE PLANNED
CLOSURES THE STATE WILL HAVE
ABOUT 15,000 EMPTY BEDS IN THE
BUDGET YEAR. GROWING TO ABOUT
20,000 BY 2027. AND TO GIVE YOU
A SENSE OF THE MAGNITUDE OF
THAT. UH 20,000 BEDS BY 2027.
WHAT IS MEANS THAT ABOUT 20% OF
THE PRISON BEDS IN OPERATION
WILL BE UNOCCUPIED. UM AND ALSO
JUST AGAIN, GIVE YOU A SENSE.
THAT MEANS THAT THE STATE COULD
DEACTIVATE, GIVEN THAT THAT
NUMBER OF EMPTY BEDS COULD
DEACTIVATE ABOUT FIVE PRISONS OF
AVERAGE SIZE WHILE STILL
RETAINING ROUGHLY 2500 EMPTY
BEDS, WHICH IS THE NUMBER THE
NUMBER OF EMPTY BEDS THAT THE
STATE MAINTAINED PRIOR TO THE
PANDEMIC. AND IN PROPOSING TO
MAINTAIN THESE EMPTY BEDS. THE
DEPARTMENT HAS CITED A NEED FOR
OPERATIONAL FLEXIBILITY, SUCH AS
FOR MAINTAINING QUOTE,
QUARANTINE SPACE FOR COVID FOR
THE ONGOING RESPONSE TO COVID.
UM AS WELL AS UNCERTAINTY IN
JUST GENERALLY THAT PROJECTIONS
ARE UNCERTAIN. UM AND WE DON'T
DISAGREE THAT THESE ARE
REASONABLE, REASONABLE
CONSIDERATIONS AND THAT THE
STATE SHOULD MAINTAIN SOME
AMOUNT OF EMPTY BEDS. HOWEVER
THE STATE DEPARTMENT HASN'T
PROVIDED ANY DATA OR ANALYSIS TO
SUPPORT THESE SPECIFIC NUMBER OF
EMPTY BEDS FOR WHICH IT IS
EFFECTIVELY ASKING FOR FUNDING.
UM. AND SO THE LACK OF
JUSTIFICATION FOR THAT FULL
CERTAIN YOU KNOW, QUITE HIGH
MAGNITUDE OF EMPTY BEDS AS WELL
AS THE LACK OF A PLAN AT THIS
TIME, TOO. UH, BRING DOWN
CAPACITY. EXPOSES THE STATE TO
POTENTIALLY UNNECESSARY COSTS.
UM SO FIRST, IT EXPOSES THE
STATE UNNECESSARY PRISON
OPERATIONAL COSTS AND AGAIN JUST
TO GIVE YOU A SENSE OF KIND OF
WHAT'S ON THE TABLE IF THE STATE
DID CLOSE FIVE PRISONS BY 2025,
IN ADDITION TO THE ONES THAT
HAVE BEEN ANNOUNCED, THAT COULD
MEAN UM EQUATE TO AROUND A
BILLION DOLLARS IN ANNUAL
OPERATIONAL SAVINGS. IN A DAY.
IN ADDITION, THE STATE IS
EXPOSED TO UNNECESSARY PRISON
INFRASTRUCTURE SPENDING IN TWO
WAYS. ONE IS JUST TO THE EXTENT
THE STATE MAINTAINS A LARGER
PRISON, UM, PORTFOLIO OR SORT OF
LIKE FOOTPRINT ESSENTIALLY OF
THE PRISON SYSTEM LARGER THAN IT
NEEDS, IT COULD END UP
MAINTAINING MORE PRISON
INFRASTRUCTURE AND SPENDING TO
DO SO IN THE LONG RUN. UM AND
THEN 2ND 2ND. TO THE EXTENT THE
STATE DOES END UP REDUCING THE
FOOTPRINT OF THE PRISON SYSTEM
AND MAKES MORE CAPACITY
REDUCTIONS, UM, WITHOUT A CLEAR
PLAN ON HOW IT'S GOING TO GO
AHEAD. GO FORWARD WITH THAT IT
RISKS UM, SPENDING ON
INFRASTRUCTURE AT PRISONS THAT
ARE CLOSED SHORTLY OR THEREAFTER
. WHICH WOULD, OF COURSE BE, UM
, POTENTIALLY UNNECESSARY OR,
YOU KNOW, NOT COST EFFECTIVE. UM
AND THIRD, THE STATE IS EXPOSED
TO UNNECESSARY SPENDING ON STAFF
TRAINING. UH TO GET TO THE
EXTENT THAT THE STATE WERE TO
CLOSE, SAY FIVE PRISONS OR EVEN
FEWER PRISONS OVER A FEW A
PERIOD OF A FEW TO SEVERAL YEARS
. UM THAT WOULD MEAN THAT THE
STAFF AT THOSE PRISONS THAT ARE
CLOSED WOULD HAVE THE
OPPORTUNITY TO FILL VACANCIES
ELSEWHERE IN THE PRISON SYSTEM,
WHICH WOULD MEAN THAT THE STATE
WOULD HAVE A LOWER NEED TO
PRODUCE AND TO PAY, TOO. PRODUCE
NEW CORRECTIONAL OFFICERS TO
FILL THOSE VACANCIES, AT LEAST
FOR A PERIOD OF TIME. SO IN
LIGHT OF THESE CONCERNS, UM AND
THESE SORT OF RISKS THAT THE
STATE IS CURRENTLY EXPOSED TO,
IN OUR VIEW. WE RECOMMEND, UM WE
HAVE A SERIES OF RECOMMENDATIONS
FOR THE LEGISLATURE. THE FIRST
ARE KIND OF THE FIRST SET IS
GEARED TOWARD WHAT CAN THE
LEGISLATURE DO IN THE NEAR TERM
AS IT IS DELIBERATING THE
BECOMING BUDGET YEAR. UM AND
THEN THE KIND OF THE NEXT SET,
WHICH I'LL GET TO, UM, ARE
INTENDED TO HELP GUIDE FUTURE
DECISIONS KIND OF WITH AN EYE
TOWARD THE LONGER TERM. SO IN
THE NEAR TERM, WE RECOMMEND
DIRECTING CDCR TO PROVIDE DATA
AND ANALYSIS JUSTIFYING THE
NUMBER OF EMPTY BEDS. UM THAT
THE DEPARTMENT NEEDS IN THE
BUDGET YEAR. AND THEN WE
RECOMMEND BASED ON THAT
INFORMATION. TO THE EXTENT THE
LEGISLATURE AGREES WITH THAT
ANALYSIS, DETERMINING A CAPACITY
REDUCTION TARGET AGAIN FOR THE
BUDGET YEAR, AND THAT COULD BE A
SIMPLE AS REDUCING CAPACITY DOWN
TO WHATEVER LEVEL THE DEPARTMENT
IS ABLE TO PROVIDE JUSTIFICATION
FOR AND THEN WE RECOMMEND
ACHIEVING THAT CAPACITY
REDUCTION TARGET BY DIRECTING
CDCR TOO CLOSE ADDITIONAL YARDS
IN THE BUDGET YEAR. TO MEET THE
TARGET. UM AND THEN, IN THE LONG
TERM, WE HAVE A SERIES OF
RECOMMENDATIONS, UM, INTENDED TO
HELP THE LEGISLATURE GATHER KEY
INFORMATION NOW OR SET START
THAT PROCESS TO HELP SET ITSELF
UP TO EITHER MAKE CAPACITY
REDUCTIONS DECISIONS IN THE
FUTURE ITSELF, OR TO PROVIDE
OVERSIGHT OF, UM, THE
ADMINISTRATION'S DECISIONS.
GOING FORWARD. SO WE RECOMMEND
THAT THE LEGISLATURE DIRECT THE
DEPARTMENT TO REPORT BY JANUARY
10 2024 ON ITS LONG TERM EMPTY
BED NEEDS SO SIMILARLY PROVIDING
DATA AND ANALYSIS TO SUPPORT UM
, ESSENTIALLY CREATE THE
CONNECTION BETWEEN THE FACTORS
THAT THINKS NEED ARE YOU NEED TO
BE CONSIDERED, WHICH ARE
NUMEROUS AND COMPLEX, OF COURSE.
BUT TO PROVIDE THAT CONNECTION
BETWEEN THOSE FACTORS USING DATA
AND ANALYSIS. WITH THE ACTUAL
NUMBER OF BEDS THAT ARE IT
BELIEVES ARE NEEDED BY, SAY 2027
ONGOING UM, AND IN ADDITION TO
LOOKING AT THE NUMBER OF EMPTY
BEDS AS A STRATEGY TO MITIGATE
RISK AND UNCERTAINTIES, IT
SHOULD ALSO CONSIDER OTHER
OPTIONS, SUCH AS REACTIVATING
THE POSSIBILITY OF QUICKLY
REACTIVATING FACILITIES AS A
MANAGEMENT TOOL, IN ADDITION TO
JUST MAINTAINING EMPTY BEDS.
BASED ON THAT ANALYSIS, WE
RECOMMEND DETERMINING THAT THE
LEGISLATURE DETERMINE A LONG
TERM CAPACITY REDUCTION TARGET.
AND ACHIEVE THAT TARGET THROUGH
PRISON CLOSURES BECAUSE ALL ELSE
EQUAL THE STATE DOES OUR WOULD
BE ABLE TO ELIMINATE MORE FIXED
COSTS BY CLOSING PRISONS, AS
OPPOSED TO CLOSING SINGLE YARDS
, AND THAT COULD EVENTUALLY MEAN
UM, ACTUALLY REVERSING SOME YARD
CLOSURES THAT HAVE ALREADY BEEN
OR WILL BE, UM DONE IN ORDER TO
FACILITATE MORE PRISON CLOSURES
AGAIN GIVEN OTHER OPERATIONAL
CONSIDERATIONS, UM, TO
ESSENTIALLY SORT OF CONSOLIDATE
THE PRISON SYSTEM, UM AND REDUCE
ELIMINATE, AS AS MANY OVERHEAD
COSTS ESSENTIALLY AS AS CAN BE
DONE, AND FINALLY TO SET THE
LEGISLATURE UP TO MAKE THOSE
DECISIONS OR PROVIDE OVERSIGHT
OF THOSE DECISIONS AROUND
COMPACT FUTURE CAPACITY
REDUCTIONS. WE RECOMMEND
DIRECTING CDCR TO REPORT BY
JANUARY 10 2024 ON THE MAJOR
IMPLICATIONS OF DEACTIVATING
EACH PRISON SO AND THE COST AND
OPTIONS TO ADDRESS THOSE
IMPLICATIONS, SO NOT SELECTING
ANY PARTICULAR LIST OF PRISONS
AT THIS TIME, BUT REALLY, JUST
FOR EVERY PRISON KIND OF WHAT IS
THE MAJOR FEATURE ARE THERE KEY
FUNCTIONS AT THIS PRISON
PROVIDES A SYSTEM THAT UM, YOU
KNOW, WOULD WOULD NEED TO BE
ADDRESSED BEFORE IT CAN BE
CLOSED, UM, IN ORDER TO AVERT
SOME KIND OF SIGNIFICANT
NEGATIVE CONSEQUENCE, UM, AND
THAT WOULD HELP THE LEGISLATURE
BETTER UNDERSTAND THE TRADE OFFS
OF SELECTING CERTAIN PRISON FOR
CLOSURES AS WELL AS UM, MAKE ANY
NECESSARY PLANNING DECISIONS,
SUCH AS RELOCATING KEY
INFRASTRUCTURE TO ALLOW FOR
CERTAIN PRISONS. UH TO THAT
OTHERWISE, YOU KNOW, COULDN'T BE
CLOSED ON A DIME TO BE CLOSED IN
THE LONG ROOM LONG RUN. THANK
YOU VERY MUCH. I'M AVAILABLE FOR
QUESTIONS. THANK YOU WILL HEAR
NEXT FROM D O F. HI LENNY
CHAMORRO DEPARTMENT OF FINANCE.
THANK YOU. THE ADMINISTRATION
REMAINS COMMITTED TO PROMOTING A
LITTLE CLOSER TO YOU. THANK YOU.
OKAY THE ADMINISTRATION REMAINS
COMMITTED TO REDUCING
CALIFORNIA'S PRISON SYSTEM WHILE
PROMOTING PUBLIC SAFETY. AS THIS
COMMITTEE IS AWARE, THE
ADMINISTRATION HAS ACHIEVED
HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS IN SAVINGS
OVER THE YEARS ASSOCIATED WITH
REDUCING AND ELIMINATING ITS USE
OF IN STATE AND OUT OF STATE
CONTRACT BEDS AND, MORE RECENTLY
, THE CLOSURE OF DUAL VOCATIONAL
INSTITUTION. IN ADDITION, IT'S
COMMITTED TO CLOSING THE
CALIFORNIA CORRECTIONAL CITY.
I'M SORRY CALIFORNIA
CORRECTIONAL CENTER AND SIX
INDIVIDUAL FACILITIES THIS YEAR
, AS WELL AS THE CALIFORNIA CITY
CORRECTIONAL FACILITY NEXT YEAR
AND THE CHUCKLE WALLA VALUE
STATE PRESIDENT FOLLOWING THERE
THE REQUIREMENTS FOR DETERMINING
PRISON CLOSURES ARE LAID OUT IN
PENAL CODE 2067 USING THE PENAL
CODE AS GUIDANCE, THE DEPARTMENT
OF VALUE RATES THOSE AND OTHER
FACTORS TO IDENTIFY THE
APPROPRIATE PRISONS FOR CLOSURE.
THESE FACTORS ARE DYNAMIC AND
CAN CHANGE AS THE POPULATION
CHANGES, AND THE DEPARTMENT WILL
CONTINUE TO REVIEW AND RE
EVALUATE THE NEEDS OF ITS
POPULATION, INCLUDING ITS
ABILITY TO PROVIDE EFFECTIVE AND
TRANSFORMATIVE REHABILITATION,
AS WELL AS ENSURING IT MEETS ITS
HEALTHCARE NEEDS AND SAFETY
REQUIREMENTS AS WELL. USING A
COMBINATION OF STRATEGIES TO
ACHIEVE SAVINGS AND REDUCE
POSITIONS. THE DEPARTMENT
REMAINS COMMITTED TO DECREASING
ITS CAPACITY IN A WAY THAT'S
DURABLE AND PROMOTES PUBLIC
SAFETY. THANK YOU. THANK YOU.
WE'RE DONE. THANK YOU. I HAVE A
FEW QUESTIONS AND THEN WE'LL
TURN IT OVER TO MY COLLEAGUES
FOR ANY ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS. I
ALSO WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE OUR
BUDGET CHAIR. TILTING IS WITH US
TODAY. THANK YOU FOR JOINING THE
HEARING. FIRST I THINK WE CAN
AGREE THAT PRISON CLOSURES IF
NOT DONE IN A THOUGHTFUL MANNER
CAN BE DISRUPTIVE TO THE
INCARCERATED PEOPLE, STAFF AND
THE SURROUNDING COMMUNITY FOR
SURE, AND I KNOW THIS
SUBCOMMITTEE EVEN PRIOR TO MY
ARRIVAL HAS BEEN ASKING FOR MORE
INFORMATION, MORE CLARITY FOR A
NUMBER OF YEARS NOW, SINCE CDCR
S DOES PROJECT PRISON
POPULATIONS EACH YEAR. YOU ARE
BEST SUITED TO KNOW YOUR LONG
TERM CAPACITY NEEDS. SO I'M
WONDERING WHY THESE CLOSURE
DECISIONS FEEL REACTIVE RATHER
THAN PROACTIVE TO MINIMIZE THE
DISRUPTION. I UNDERSTAND WE HAVE
A LIST OF CAPITAL IMPROVEMENTS
THAT NEED TO BE MADE FOR THE
NEXT 10 YEARS. BUT IS THAT JUST
A LIST OF THINGS THAT NEED TO
GET DONE? FOR EXAMPLE? LAST YEAR
YOU REQUESTED RESOURCES. FOR A
PRISON THAT YOU ANNOUNCED FOR
CLOSER JUST A FEW MONTHS LATER.
THAT MAKES ME THINK WE DON'T
HAVE A STRATEGIC PLAN IN PLACE,
AND RATHER JUST A TO DO LIST.
CAN YOU SHARE ANY INFORMATION
FOR US ABOUT THE LONG TERM
PLANNING THAT YOU'RE DOING AND
BEING TRANSPARENT IN THAT
PROCESS? MADAM CHAIR DAVID LEWIS
, DIRECTOR FACILITY PLANNING,
CONSTRUCTION AND MANAGEMENT,
CDCR. UM WE DO DO LONG TERM PLAN
FOR CAPITAL EXPENDITURES. UM AND
THAT THAT PLANNING DOES HAVE A
LONG HORIZON. UM UNFORTUNATELY,
AS AS MENTIONED, UM LIKE PRISON
CLOSURES ARE DYNAMIC. AND DEPEND
ON THE FACTORS RELATED TO THE
POPULATION. UM THAT AT ANY GIVEN
TIME AND SOME OF THOSE FACTORS
CHANGE AND BASED ON
CIRCUMSTANCES. FOR EXAMPLE, THE
COVID 19 PANDEMIC CERTAINLY
CHANGED OR CONSIDERATION FOR
SOME FACTORS FOR PRISON CLOSURES
AND WHAT ARE ONGOING CAPACITY
NEEDS TO BE RELATED TO, UM,
ONGOING HEALTH ISSUES AND OTHER
THINGS THAT WE HAVE TO EXAMINE.
IN ADDITION, WE ALWAYS HAVE TO
CONSIDER THE ABILITY TO STAFF A
PRISON WHICH CAN BE A DYNAMIC
FACTOR AND CAN CHANGE BASED ON
WHAT WHAT PARTICULAR POSITIONS
WERE LOOKING OUT FOR STAFFING
FOR HEALTH CARE. IT MAY BE A
DIFFERENT CONSIDERATION THAN IT
IS FOR CUSTODY, FOR EXAMPLE, UM,
SO THOSE ARE ALL THINGS THAT
HAVE TO BE ACCOUNTED FOR.
UNFORTUNATELY IF WE MAKE LONG
TERM DECISIONS RELATED TO
CLOSURES THAT ALSO HAS AN IMPACT
ON OUR ABILITY TO RUN THOSE
INSTITUTIONS AS STAFF WILL MAKE
DECISIONS THAT MAKE IT DIFFICULT
TO RUN. IN THE LONG TERM. WE SAW
THAT, FOR EXAMPLE, WITH
CALIFORNIA CITY, I'M NOT A
CALIFORNIA STAY WITH CALIFORNIA
CORRECTIONAL CENTER, EVEN THOUGH
THERE WAS A LAWSUIT THAT
PREVENTED US FROM PERFORMING ANY
CLOSURE RELATED ACTIVITIES THAT
C. C. C WHEN IT THAT LAWSUIT
THAT INJUNCTION WAS LIFTED,
THERE WAS NO LONGER ENOUGH STAFF
LIFTED THAT PRISON TO RUN BOTH
THAT PRISON AND HIGH DESERT
STATE PRISON AND AS A RESULT WE
NEEDED TO TRANSFER STAFF
RELATIVELY QUICKLY OVER THE HIGH
DESERT STATE PRISON AND WE SEE
THAT IMPACT IN OTHER PLACES
WHERE THERE'S CLOSURE
ANNOUNCEMENTS, PEOPLE START TO
FIND WAYS TO FIND OTHER JOBS IN
THE DEPARTMENT. AND SO THAT
MAKES IT DIFFICULT ON
OPERATIONAL BASIS. WE DO HAVE TO
CONSIDER OBVIOUSLY THE
INFRASTRUCTURE NEEDS OF
INSTITUTIONS. UM AND SOME OF
THOSE, YOU KNOW IF WE'RE TALKING
A LONG TERM PLAN SAVE, FOR
EXAMPLE, FIVE YEARS YOU WOULD
STILL NEED TO MAKE SOME OF THOSE
INFRASTRUCTURE IMPROVEMENTS JUST
TO MAKE THOSE FIVE YEARS FOR
SOME OF THE ART INSTITUTIONS
WHICH ARE, YOU KNOW ARE GETTING
OLDER AND HAVE PRETTY
SIGNIFICANT INFRASTRUCTURE
ISSUES THAT WE HAVE TO ADDRESS.
SO EVEN IF WE PROVIDE A LONG
TERM PLAN, WE WOULD PROBABLY
STILL NEED TO MAKE SOME
INFRASTRUCTURE INVESTMENTS IN
THOSE INSTITUTIONS RELATED TO
THE ONGOING NATURE UNTIL WE
CLOSE THEM. UM OBVIOUSLY, THAT
MAY DIFFER IF WE DON'T HAVE, YOU
KNOW A LONG TERM HORIZON, BUT
YOU DO HAVE SOME INFRASTRUCTURE
ISSUES THAT NEED TO BE ADDRESSED
IN THE SHORT TERM TO MAINTAIN
CAPACITY IN THE SHORT TERM. THAT
DRIVES SOME OF THAT DECISION, SO
THERE'S A LOT OF FACTORS THAT GO
INTO PRISON CLOSURE DISCUSSION.
UM AND SOME OF THEM ARE LAID OUT
IN THE PENAL CODE. BUT SOME OF
THEM, YOU KNOW, ALSO, YOU NEED
TO CONSIDER THE IMPACT ON THE
POPULATION, THE SURROUNDING
COMMUNITY AND OTHER THINGS THAT
COME INTO PLAY THAT GO BEYOND
SOME OF THOSE FACTORS, ALL OF
WHICH HAVE TO BE PUT TOGETHER
YOU ALSO NEED TO CONSIDER THE
ABILITY TO PROVIDE LONG TERM
CARE BECAUSE WE STILL ARE UNDER
COURT ORDER FOR SEVERAL CLASS
ACTION LAWSUITS THAT PROVIDE
REQUIRES TO PROVIDE INPATIENT
CARE. UM AND WE HAVE TO BE
CAREFUL OF THOSE BEDS AND NOT
IMPACTING THOSE. SO THERE'S A
LOT OF DECISIONS, A LOT OF
FACTORS THAT HAVE TO GO INTO IT,
ALL OF WHICH DON'T NECESSARILY
LEND THEMSELVES TO A SCORING
SYSTEM PER SE, BECAUSE YOU WHEN
YOU START LOOKING AT THAT, FOR
EXAMPLE, ARE MOST EXPENSIVE
PRISONS PROBABLY ARE THE PRISONS
THAT YOU WOULD MOST WANT TO KEEP
BECAUSE THEY CONTAIN PROGRAMS
THAT YOU ARE VALUABLE TO THE
POPULATION EITHER HEALTHCARE
PROGRAMS OR THEY CONTAIN
REHABILITATION PROGRAMS THAT
COSTS MONEY. UM THAT THAT DRIVES
SOME OF THAT COST, SO COST YOU
KNOW BECOMES LESS OF A FACTOR.
WHEN YOU START TO CONSIDER THOSE
THINGS, AND SO IT'S DIFFICULT TO
PUT LIKE A FORMULA ON A CLOSURE
DISCUSSION BECAUSE IT HAS TO
BECOME KIND OF AND THEN YOUR
CLOSURE. DECISIONS IN AND OF
THEMSELVES WILL CHANGE SOME OF
THE FACTORS THAT YOU HAVE TO
CONSIDER FOR THE NEXT CLOSURE
BECAUSE OF THE THINGS THAT YOU
REMOVED FROM CAPACITY AND THE
PREVIOUS CLOSURE, SO ALL THOSE
THINGS MAKE PRESENTING LIKE A
FORMULA PER SE OR OR SOMETHING
LIKE THAT VERY DIFFICULT TO DO,
SO YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT THOSE
THINGS MORE ON THE BASIS OF GOT
MORE HOLISTIC MANNER ALTOGETHER
AND THEN CONSIDER THEM AS THEIR
SYSTEM IMPACTS AS WELL. SO. JUST
GONNA MOVE ON TO MY NEXT
QUESTION AND LIKELY, MY
COLLEAGUES WILL BE ABLE TO LOOK
BACK ON THAT AS WELL. I CAN YOU
SPEAK A LITTLE BIT TO THE LENGTH
OF TIME IT TAKES TO CLOSE A YARD
IN PRISON ONCE AN ANNOUNCEMENT
IS MADE, FOR INSTANCE, AT DUAL
VOCATIONAL INSTITUTE, CAN YOU
GIVE A STATUS UPDATE ON THAT AS
WELL AS WHAT HAS BEEN DONE WITH
THAT PRISON. WE'LL DO. A
VOCATIONAL INSTITUTION WAS
CLOSED IN 2021. IT TOOK ABOUT A
LITTLE LESS THAN A YEAR TO CLOSE
THAT INSTITUTION. UM AT THIS
POINT, D V. I S FULLY CLOSED ITS
IN WARM SHUTDOWN MODE. THERE'S
STAFF THAT PROVIDE SERVICES TO
KEEP INFRASTRUCTURE RUNNING. UM
AND YOU KNOW, WE'RE LOOKING AT
OPTIONS OF DISPOSING OF THAT
PROPERTY, REMOVING IT FROM OUR
BOOKS. BUT THAT DOES TAKE TIME
AS WELL. THAT PROCESS TO SURPLUS
PROPERTY IS NOT SOMETHING THAT'S
DONE RELATIVELY QUICKLY. IT
TAKES SOME PERIOD OF TIME, AND
THAT'S NOT UNDER THE CONTROL OF
THE DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS
AND REHABILITATION. WHO IS IT
UNDER THE CONTROL OF WELL THAT I
WOULD HAVE TO DEFER. I'M I, UM
YOU KNOW, DISPOSING OF STATE
PROPERTY IS NOT A FUNCTION THAT
WE PROVIDE IN CDCR. I WOULD HAVE
TO. I CAN PROVIDE YOU THAT.
YEAH, I BELIEVE IT'S GENERAL
SERVICES. BUT I KNOW I SPEAK TO
THEM. CAN MADAM CHAIR. THE OTHER
PIECE IS IF THERE IS A STAFFING
LAYOFF, WE TYPICALLY NEED A
MINIMUM OF 12 MONTHS TO GO
THROUGH THE COLLEGE, OUR PROCESS
FOR A LAYOFF PERIOD. WHERE IF
YOU'RE TALKING, CLOSING AN
ENTIRE INSTITUTION, THAT'S AT
LEAST A YEAR PROCESS IF YOU'RE
CLOSING AN INDIVIDUAL FACILITY
AH, THAT COULD BE DONE GENERALLY
ON A QUICKER BASIS, ASSUMING
IT'S NOT, YOU KNOW, ONE WITH
MORE STAFF THAN WE CAN ABSORB
AND WITHIN THAT COUNTY. THANK
YOU ASK ELIO TO RESPOND. ANDREW
SODERBERGH, LEGISLATIVE
ANALYST'S OFFICE. I WAS JUST
GOING TO CONFIRM THAT THE
DEPARTMENT OF GENERAL SERVICES
IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE STATE
SURPLUS -PERTY PROCESSES.
THANK YOU. I JUST WANT TO SHARE
SOME CONCERN ABOUT WHAT? WE'RE
HERE REGULARLY FROM THE
ADMINISTRATION THAT THERE IS A
GENERAL FUND COST PRESSURES.
SOME OF THEIR PRISONS THAT HAVE
BEEN NAMED FOR CLOSURE ARE
LOCATED TOO CLOSE TO ANOTHER
PRISON AND THEY SHARE SOME
INFRASTRUCTURE, FOR EXAMPLE,
WATER TREATMENT FACILITY OR
SOMETHING THAT THE OTHER
NEIGHBORING PRISONS NEED.
DOESN'T THAT MEAN THAT THE STATE
WOULD HAVE TO INDEFINITELY PAY
FOR WARM SHUTDOWN FOR THOSE
CLOSED PRISONS? LIKELY YES FOR
THE FORESEEABLE FUTURE. UM BOTH
C C C AND CHUCK KUALA SHARE SOME
INFRASTRUCTURE THAT WILL REQUIRE
ONGOING EXPENDITURES RELATED TO
THAT WATER TREATMENT. WASTEWATER
TREATMENT, ESPECIALLY YES. AND
WHY AREN'T WE SELECTING PRISONS
THAT COULD BE SOLD OR UTILIZED
FOR OTHER PURPOSES? WHEN ONCE
AGAIN, YOU RUN INTO A LOT OF
FACTORS WHEN YOU'RE CONSIDERING
THE CLOSURE. UM I THINK IN THAT
CASE YOU WERE TRYING NOT TO
OVERLY IMPACT COMMUNITIES. SO IF
YOU HAVE TWO PRISONS TOGETHER,
IT'S LESSONS THAT THE COMMUNITY
IMPACT. UM IT'S ALSO IN IN BOTH
THOSE CASES THEY SERVED
POPULATIONS THAT WE HAVE AN
EXCESS. YEAH WE HAVE AN
EXCESSIVE CAPACITY FOR LOWER
LEVEL LOWER SECURITY INMATES.
AND SO THAT DRIVES SOME OF THOSE
THOSE DECISIONS AS WELL AS THE
CUSTODY LEVEL OF THE INMATES
THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, AND
THE ABILITY TO STAFF IN IN SOME
OF THOSE LOCATIONS. IT'S
HISTORICALLY BEEN DIFFICULT TO
STAFF TO INSTITUTIONS, FOR
EXAMPLE, IN SUSANVILLE UM AND SO
THAT BECOMES PART OF THE
EQUATION OF WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING
AT CLOSURE AS WELL. I THINK ONE
CONCERN THAT I HAVE IS THAT
WE'VE BEEN TOLD THAT THERE IS A
15 TO 20,000 REDUCTION OF BEDS
BY 2027. WE JUST DON'T HAVE ANY
INFORMATION OR INSIGHT INTO HOW
YOU ALL APPROACH. THOSE CLOSURES
, SO I THINK IT IS QUITE
POSSIBLE, FRANKLY, TO PROVIDE A
FORMULA AND AWAITING, BASED ON
THE DIFFERENT FACTORS THAT YOU
NEED IN ORDER TO BE TO BE ABLE
TO DETERMINE WHICH PRISON SHOULD
BE CLOSED AND ARTICULATE THAT IN
A WAY THAT WILL ALLOW THERE TO
BE SOME VISIBILITY AND OVERSIGHT
FOR THE LEGISLATURE TO BE ABLE
TO ACT FULLY IN IN REGARDS TO
OVERSIGHT, SO I'M REALLY JUST
NOT CLEAR AND I KNOW THAT IT'S
BEEN ASKED BY FOR YEARS OF
MEMBERS OF THIS COMMITTEE. WHY
WE CAN'T HAVE A PLAN. SO MADAM
CHAIR. WHY I AGREE WITH YOUR
EARLIER COMMENTS THAT IT NEEDS
TO BE A THOUGHTFUL APPROACH. I
THINK ELO HAD SIMILAR COMMENTS
AND THAT WE REALLY AS WE AS WE
DOWNSIZED THE FACILITIES THAT WE
ARE COMMITTED TO THE DEPARTMENT
OF FINANCE SHARED EARLIER. WE
WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT AS WE
CLOSE FACILITIES WERE NOT
SIGNIFICANTLY, FOR EXAMPLE.
REDUCING REHAB CAPACITY. BECAUSE
IF YOU START CLOSING FACILITIES
, YOU'RE SPREADING THAT
POPULATION TO OTHER PRISONS
WHERE I MAY NOT HAVE THE ABILITY
TO PROVIDE THE SAME LEVEL OF
REHABILITATION WE'RE PROVIDING
NOW. WE NEED TO LOOK CLOSELY AT
THINGS LIKE R A D, A POPULATION.
TO ENSURE WE HAVE SUFFICIENT
CAPACITY FOR WHEELCHAIR BEDS FOR
LOW VISION, YOU KNOW, ETCETERA
FOR THOSE TYPE OF THINGS AND YOU
KNOW, AS A MATTER OF FACT, WE'RE
STILL IN LITIGATION TIED TO OUR
THREE JUDGE PANEL POPULATION CAP
, AND WE GOT INTO OUR PLOT OF
MEDICAL LAWSUIT PRIMARILY
BECAUSE THE LEVEL OF
OVERCROWDING THE DEPARTMENT WAS
IN, SO WE REALLY WANT TO BE
THOUGHTFUL AS WE DOWNSIZE. AH
AND CLOSED THE FACILITIES THAT
ARE THAT ARE CURRENTLY IN THE
BUDGET THAT THAT THAT WE DO THIS
THOUGHTFULLY AND HAVE A GOOD
PLAN GOING FORWARD, AND WE'RE
COMMITTED TO WORK WITH THE FOLKS
TRANSPARENTLY AND HOW WE DO
THAT. I KNOW THERE'S BEEN
FRUSTRATION IN THE PAST THAT
THERE'S A FEELING WE HAVEN'T
GIVEN ALL THE INFORMATION AND
WE'RE WILLING TO BE TRANSPARENT
THERE. I'LL OPEN UP TO MY OTHER
COLLEAGUES. MR LUCKY MY COMMENTS
. I DON'T REALLY HAVE ANY
QUESTIONS. I JUST HAVE A COMMENT
THAT IT'S PROBABLY PRETTY
APPARENT, BUT I BELIEVE IT
DESERVES TO BE STATED THAT I DO
REALIZE THE COMPLEXITY AND THE
CHALLENGE ASSOCIATED WITH THESE
REDUCTIONS, HOWEVER. 15 TO
20,000 VACANT BEDS. IS HUGE. AND
THE FACT THAT WE'RE STILL NOT
REALIZING COST SAVINGS. IS
RIDICULOUS. QUITE HONESTLY. AND
SO THAT'S WHAT I'M REALLY
FOCUSED ON WITHOUT GETTING INTO
A WHOLE LOT OF DEPTH. IF WE'RE
REDUCTIVE, WE'RE REDUCING THE
CAPACITY TO THAT DEGREE. WE HAVE
TO SHOW SOME KIND OF COST
SAVINGS. AND I DON'T SEE THAT
RIGHT NOW. IN FACT, AS I SEE THE
INCREASE IN THE BUDGET RIGHT
NOW, WITH THE WITH REDUCTIONS
AND I THINK THAT'S UNACCEPTABLE.
MR HART. YEAH I AGREE WITH THE
CHAIR AND MR LACKEY TO ABOUT THE
COMPLEXITY AND THE CHALLENGE OF
DOING THE JOB. AND MR LEWIS
SPOKE TO THAT. YOU KNOW VERY
ELOQUENTLY ABOUT ALL THE FACTORS
SECRETARY MCCUMBER. YOU ALSO
DID, TOO. I THINK WE ALL AGREE
THAT THIS IS A COMPLEX,
DIFFICULT THING YOU HAVE TO
MAINTAIN AND MODERNIZE
INFRASTRUCTURE THIS RAPIDLY
AGING AND AT THE SAME TIME PLAN
FOR A DECREASING POPULATION, SO
IT'S A COMPOUND COMPLEX PROBLEM.
BUT THE REAL PROBLEM IS NOT THAT
WORK. IT'S HOW CAN WE BE
INEFFECTIVE PARTNER WITH YOU?
AND HOW CAN WE UNDERSTAND THAT
PROCESS? I THINK ALLEGED ANALYST
OFFICE REALLY ARTICULATED THAT.
WELL WE NEED TO SEE A
TRANSPARENT PLAN. IT DOESN'T
NEED TO BE A SCORING CRITERIA
DOESN'T NEED TO BE A FORMULA.
BUT IT DOES NEED TO BE
TRANSPARENT AND WE NEED TO
UNDERSTAND THAT AND OUR AND OUR
STAFF AND EVERYBODY FRANKLY, ALL
THE PARTNERS INVOLVED IN THIS
CONVERSATION NEED TO BE PART OF
THAT AND HAVE THE TRANSPARENCY
THAT YOU SPOKE TO SECRETARY
MCCUMBER SO THAT WE KNOW WHAT
WE'RE DOING AND ARE BEING
AFFECTED WITH TAXPAYERS DOLLARS
AND PROVIDING HIGH LEVEL SECURE
FACILITIES FOR THE INCARCERATED
FOLKS THAT YOU'RE IN CHARGE OF
TAKING CARE OF. SO WHAT CAN YOU
TELL US THAT YOU'RE GOING TO DO
TO PROVIDE THAT TRANSPARENCY.
WHAT AND IS THERE A RESOURCE
CONSTRAINT? IS THERE SOMETHING
THAT'S KEEPING YOU FROM DOING
THAT? BECAUSE IT DOESN'T SOUND
TO ME ON THE NEW PERSON ON THE
COMMITTEE. IT DOESN'T SOUND TO
ME LIKE THIS IS NEW. THIS
CONVERSATION FEELS OLD AND I
JUST UNDER DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY
WE WOULDN'T BE CLOSER TOGETHER
ON THAT BASIC PREMISE. WELL
THANK YOU FOR THAT QUESTION, AND
LIKE I SAID EARLIER, WE ARE
COMMITTED TO WORK
COLLABORATIVELY TOWARDS GETTING
THERE. WE HAVE SHARED QUITE A
BIT OF INFORMATION ON THE
SECTIONS OF PENAL CODE 2067,
WHICH LAYS OUT YOU KNOW, OR
GUIDANCE FOR FRAMING THE PRISON
CLOSURE ISSUE, AND SO WE HAVE
FOLLOWED THAT PROCESS AND MAKING
OUR DECISIONS WE ARE COMMITTED.
AS I PREVIOUSLY SAID TO CLOSE
THE PRESIDENT'S CURRENTLY
SCHEDULED, AND WE DON'T HAVE A
PROBLEM WITH SITTING DOWN WITH
THE FOLKS IN THE STAFF AND, UM
GOING THROUGH THE INFORMATION
AND TRANSPARENTLY SHARING IT. I
COMMITTED TO THAT EARLIER TODAY
, WITH WITH FOLKS IN THE ROOM
AND, UM WE'RE WILLING TO DO
THAT. SO THERE DO YOU HAVE A
PLAN THAT THAT IS A INTERNAL
DOCUMENT THAT SHOWS HOW YOU SEE
THE POPULATION DECLINING?
ADDRESSING THE QUESTION THAT MR
LACKEY ASKED ABOUT THE 15,000
EMPTY BEDS AND WHERE THE COST
SAVINGS WOULD BE, IF THAT, I
MEAN, IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU KNOW,
THIS IS A VERY BIG, COMPLEX
ORGANIZATION THAT HAS INTERNAL
DECISION MAKING PROCESS. WE WERE
WHAT IS THERE THAT THE PUBLIC
CAN LOOK AT TO UNDERSTAND THAT
PROCESS? SO WE'RE GOING THROUGH
THAT PROCESS. NOW AS WE'RE
SCORING THE SAVINGS BOTH STAFF
AND YOU KNOW, WE'RE WE'RE
OBVIOUSLY TAKING DOWN SEVERAL
FACILITIES AND CLOSING, YOU KNOW
, THREE JUVENILE JUSTICE
FACILITIES THIS YEAR. WHAT WE
WOULD LIKE TO DO IS PRESENT
SOMETHING. AFTER WE'VE ACCOUNTED
FOR THAT. HOW MANY WERE
REHABILITATIVE SLOTS WE HAVE
LEFT, FOR EXAMPLE. AND IF WE
CLOSE 123, HOWEVER MANY
ADDITIONAL PRISONS. WHAT DOES
THAT LOOK LIKE? IN TERMS OF THE
IMPACT TO OUR ABILITY TO PROVIDE
EDUCATION TO THE POPULATION?
BECAUSE IF YOU START CLOSING
FACILITIES, WHICH IT'S
GUARANTEED TO HAPPEN, YOU'RE
GOING TO FURTHER COMPACT THE
POPULATION AND DO A FEWER NUMBER
OF PRESENTS. WHICH WE DON'T HAVE
AN UNLIMITED NUMBER OF
CLASSROOMS AND SPACE, AND THE
SAME THING APPLIES FOR THINGS
LIKE A D A ACCOMMODATED HOUSING
. I WANT TO MAKE SURE WE'RE NOT
AS WE CLOSE THESE FACILITIES
THAT WE DON'T HAVE INSUFFICIENT
BEDS TO ACCOMMODATE THAT
POPULATION AND ALSO LOVE TO HAVE
AN OPPORTUNITY TO WORK ON
GETTING OUT OF SOME OF THE
LITIGATION THAT CCR IS BEEN
STUCK IN FOR WAY TOO LONG. IT'S
MUCH MORE DIFFICULT FOR US TO
GET OUT OF THINGS LIKE THREE
JUDGE PANEL AH, SOME OF OUR
OTHER LITIGATION WHEN WE'RE HAVE
FOLKS CRAMP TIGHTER TOGETHER. SO
WORK WORK COMMITTED TO COMING UP
WITH A METHODOLOGY TO LOOK AT.
UM AND WE'RE ALSO WILLING TO
SHARE AGAIN THE PROCESS WE
UTILIZE TO SELECT THE FACILITIES
THAT WE DID. SO WE'RE MORE THAN
WILLING TO DO THAT. IS THERE A
DELIVERABLE PRODUCT FROM THE
THINGS HERE YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT
. YOU'RE COMMITTED TO PROVIDING
THAT TRANSPARENCY TO ENGAGING IN
A COLLABORATIVE DECISION MAKING
PROCESS. WHAT IS THERE A
SPECIFIC THING THAT WE CAN LOOK
AT IN A PARTICULAR TIME FRAME
THAT YOU COULD OFFER TO US TODAY
? SO WE'RE CERTAINLY WILLING TO
SHARE THE INFORMATION THAT WE
PREVIOUSLY SHARED THAT WITH THE
METHODOLOGY THAT WE UTILIZE FOR
THINGS LIKE THE DVD CLOSURE, WE
HAVE THE DOOR VOCATIONAL
INSTITUTION. WE HAVE SHARED THE
INFIRM. MATION UTILIZED FOR
THAT, AND WE'RE WILLING TO SHARE
SIMILAR INFO FOR THE OTHER
FACILITIES THAT ARE SCHEDULED
FOR CLOSURE. YES. BUT THAT
SOUNDS LIKE WHAT RELIGION
ANALYST OFFICE IS TELLING US IS
INSUFFICIENT TO MAKE THE
JUDGMENT ABOUT A PARTNERSHIP IN
THE DECISION MAKING PROCESSES
THAT ACCURATE. THE INFORMATION
YOU RECEIVED TO DATE HASN'T
PROVIDED THE TRANSPARENCY YOU
NEED TO DO EVALUATE WITH THE
DEPARTMENT'S DOING THE
INFORMATION. THAT'S YES. THE
INFORMATION WE'VE RECEIVED ON
THE HOW THE DEPARTMENT AH
SELECTED THE FACILITIES THAT
WERE ANNOUNCED IN DECEMBER FOR
CLOSURE. UM, WE DID NOT RECEIVE
INFORMATION ABOUT HOW THE
CRITERIA THAT IT'S REQUIRED TO
CONSIDER WERE PRIORITIZED OR
WEIGHTED AGAINST EACH OTHER. SO
CORRECT. YEAH, THAT'S THE RUB IS
WE NEED THAT. YEAH IT IS, AND I
THINK THERE'S MR LEWIS STATED
EARLIER. WE DON'T WE DON'T HAVE
A MATHEMATIC MATHEMATICAL
FORMULA FOR THAT. IT JUST
DOESN'T WORK. YOU LOOK AT OUR
MOST COSTLY PRESENT. IT'S R
CALIFORNIA HEALTHCARE FACILITY
AND STOCKTON, WHICH HOUSES ARE
SERIOUSLY MENTALLY ILL AND ARE
AGED AND ELDERLY POPULATION AND
THOSE WITH YOU KNOW, SERIOUS
MEDICAL ISSUES. THAT IS OUR MOST
EXPENSIVE PRESIDENTS OF I DID
SOME SORT OF SCORING CRITERIA
THAT WAITED, YOU KNOW, COSTLY
PRISON BEDS. THAT'S THE LAST
PRESIDENT OF THE STATE. I WOULD
CLOSE. BUT IF YOU WERE DOING
AWAY TO CAPACITY THAT MIGHT SHOW
UP AS NUMBER ONE IS AN EXAMPLE.
THAT'S WHERE IT'S DIFFICULT, SO,
BUT WE'RE WILLING TO SIT DOWN
AND VERBALIZE HOW WE CAME TO
THESE DECISIONS. AND I'VE WORKED
COLLABORATIVELY WITH ELIO AND
OTHER FOLKS IN THE PAST,
HUMBLING TO CONTINUE TO DO SO.
ALRIGHT. WELL, I THINK THAT'S
THE ISSUE IS WHEN THOSE
CONVERSATIONS CAN ACTUALLY
INTEGRATE AND PRODUCE THE
TRANSPARENT INFORMATION THAT
EVERYBODY HERE AGREES. IT'S A
COMPLEX DECISION MAKING PROCESS
. IT DOESN'T LEND ITSELF TO
FORMULAS AND SIMPLICITY, BUT WE
HAVE TO ADVANCE THIS
CONVERSATION BEYOND JUST
AGREEING THAT IT'S TOUGH. GREAT.
DO YOU WANT TO RESPOND? IF I
MAY, UM AND JUST TO BE CLEAR
WE'RE NOT RECOMMENDING OR
ADVOCATING FOR A FORMULA BASED
APPROACH. UM WE'RE JUST SPEAKING
ABOUT, YOU KNOW, WAITING IN THE
MORE GENERAL TERM AS IT RELATES
TO PRIORITIZING DIFFERENT
CRITERIA. UM AND JUST WANTED TO
RESPOND BRIEFLY TO THE COMMENTS
ON REHABILITATION,
REHABILITATION PROGRAMS IN SPACE
AND A D A CONSIDERATIONS AND HOW
THAT FACTORS INTO, UM THE
POSSIBILITY OR, UM, WHETHER THE
STATE SHOULD PURSUE FURTHER
PRISON CLOSURES, AND WE DON'T
DISAGREE THAT THOSE ARE
CERTAINLY IMPORTANT
CONSIDERATIONS, AS ARE MANY
OTHER FACTORS. BUT UM, OVERALL,
YOU KNOW, CLOSING UP TO FIVE
PRISONS BY 2027. JUST TO BE
CLEAR WOULD PUT THE STATE IN
TERMS OF THE DENSITY OF THE
PRISONS OR THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE
PER PRISON BACK TO WHERE IT WAS
PRIOR TO COVID, AND WE WOULD
STILL BE IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE
THREE JUDGE PANEL, UH, COURT
ORDER RELATED TO PRISON
OVERCROWDING, SO IT'S TO THE
EXTENT THAT THE STATE WANTED TO
ESSENTIALLY GO FURTHER AND
REDUCING OVERCROWDING. UM AS IT
BY GOING BEYOND. ESSENTIALLY
WHAT THE COURT HAS DECIDED ISN'T
ADEQUATE OR CONSTITUTIONALLY
ADEQUATE LEVEL. UM IT COULD DO
THAT. IT JUST THAT THAT WILL
COME AT A COST, SO THE STATE
SHOULD UNDERSTAND WHAT IT IS
THAT IT'S BUYING WITH THAT COST
. UM AND THEN ON THE ON THE
REHAB AND SORT OF RELATED TO
THAT THE REHAB AND 80 A PIECES
OF IT AGAIN. THE WE'RE NOT
TALKING ABOUT PUTTING MORE
PEOPLE IN A PRISON. UM THAN WERE
PREVIOUSLY THERE. THE POPULATION
HAS ALREADY DECLINED QUITE
SIGNIFICANTLY, SO THE NEED FOR
THE OVERALL NEED FOR REHAB SLOTS
AND 88 SPACES OR FACILITIES
SHOULD HAVE ALSO DECLINED AS THE
PEOPLE HAVE GONE AWAY. SO, UM
AND AGAIN KIND OF GOING BACK TO
OUR RECOMMENDATION AND WHY I
THINK THAT THAT RECOMMENDATION
WOULD BE HELPFUL IN THIS ISSUE.
WE RECOMMEND HAVING THE
DEPARTMENT PROVIDE A LIST OF THE
MAJOR IMPLICATIONS OF PRISON
CLOSURES FOR EACH PRISON, SO TO
THE EXTENT THAT THE STATE WOULD
LOSE A KEY REHAB PROGRAM IF IT
WERE TO CLOSE THE PRISON OR
WOULD LOSE SOME CAPACITY THAT IS
SUITABLE FOR PEOPLE WHO NEED TO
USE WHEELCHAIRS. FOR EXAMPLE,
THOSE COULD BE THINGS THAT ARE
ON THIS LIST THAT THE STATE
COULD THEN CHOOSE TO REBUILD
THAT CAPACITY ELSEWHERE AND
GENERALLY SPEAKING MOVING,
MAINTAINING A PRISON IN
OPERATION PURELY FOR THE SAKE OF
KEEPING A REHAB PROGRAM IN
OPERATION OR FOR IT'S PROBABLY A
LOT MORE EXPENSIVE THAN JUST
RELOCATING, PAYING THE ONE TIME
COST TO RELOCATE THAT FUNCTION.
THANK YOU. MR JOHN SAWYER.
SECRETARY MCCUMBER. UM. I'M
GONNA DO A LITTLE HISTORY
LESSON. 10 YEARS AGO, I WAS
CHAIR OF THIS COMMITTEE. 10
YEARS AGO. THIS CAME UP. AT A
TIME WHERE WE HAD 100 AND 60,000
PEOPLE INCARCERATED. WE'RE UNDER
RECEIVERSHIP. BECAUSE PEOPLE
WERE DYING IN THE MEDICAL
FACILITY. WE BUILT UP THE
LARGEST PRIVATE PRISON OUTSIDE
THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA. TO DEAL
WITH THE OVERCROWDING. THE
DEPARTMENT HAD NO PROBLEM.
FIGURING OUT HOW TO DEAL WITH
THAT. ALBEIT I THINK WAS WRONG.
BUT THEY FIGURED SOMETHING OUT
AND THEY MOVED TOWARDS THAT, AND
THEY MOVED TOWARD IT PRETTY
QUICKLY. WHEN IT CAME TO THE
MEDICAL. WE HAD TO HAVE A JUDGE
INTERCEDE TO MAKE THE DEPARTMENT
ACT ACCORDINGLY. HONESTLY
BELIEVE RIGHT NOW. IF WE WERE TO
SAY WE'LL LET YOU BUILD TWO NEW
PRISONS. YOU'LL BE JOHNNY ON THE
SPOT WITH SCHEMATICS. RENDERINGS
WHOLE BUDGET PROBABLY ALREADY
PICKED THE CONTRACTOR. AND THE
ARCHITECT TO BUILD IT RIGHT NOW
TODAY. IT'S BEEN 10 YEARS. 10.
YEARS OF ITS, YOU KNOW, AND YOU
JUST STALLED, NOT YOU.
DEPARTMENT. HAS STOPPED. I'VE
BEEN TO TWO. SECRETARIES WHO
EACH HAVE PROMISED. THAT THEY
WOULD GET THE INFORMATION TO
THESE PEOPLE. TO US IN THE
COMMITTEE. 10 YEARS. 10 YEARS.
AND THEN ALL I HEAR IS STALL
STALL STALL COVID. AH
INFRASTRUCTURE. THE DOG ATE MY
HOMEWORK, ALL SORTS OF EXCUSES.
I GET IT. I WAS I WAS A
BUREAUCRAT. I'M A RECOVERING
BUREAUCRAT. AND THAT IS A THAT'S
A THING. WHEN YOU LOOK AT US,
YOU PROBABLY SAY IN THIS, TOO,
SHALL PASS. BUT WE DO GET 12
YEARS NOW. AND I STILL AM ASKING
FOR THE SAME THINGS THAT I ASKED
BEFORE. AND YES, I ONLY HAVE TWO
YEARS, BUT I HAVE A FEELING
EVENTUALLY, PEOPLE HERE WILL GET
TIRED OF HEARING THIS WHO I
LEAVE BEHIND. YOU CAN DO IT. AND
AS I WARNED YOU 10 YEARS AGO.
YOU DO NOT WANT US TO DO IT.
BECAUSE WE'RE NOT GOING TO GET
IT RIGHT. I CAN ALMOST GUARANTEE
THAT. AND WHAT YOU'RE DOING IS
YOU'RE FOURTH THING. THE
ADMINISTRATION FINANCE ALLEGED
ANALYSTS AND THIS BODY TO COME
UP WITH OUR OWN PLAN. TO REDUCE
AND SO I URGE YOU TO DO IT. JUST
GET EVERYBODY INFORMATION. LET'S
MOVE. IT'S NOT THAT DIFFICULT.
WHY DO I KNOW AS DIRECTOR OF
REAL ESTATE FOR THE CITY OF L. A
I USED TO DECOMMISSION POLICE
STATION FIRE STATIONS, LIBRARIES
. IT DOES NOT TAKE THAT TO
REALIZE WHEN A WHEN A FACILITY
THAT'S COME TO THE END OF ITS
USEFUL LIFE. MY COLLEAGUE SAID.
20,000 IF WE'RE IN REAL ESTATE
IF WE WERE REAL ESTATE DEVELOPER
AND WE HAD BUILDINGS WITH A
VACANCY, RIGHT? THAT HIGH AND WE
DIDN'T FILL IT OR WE DIDN'T
REDUCE OUR INVENTORY. WE WOULD
GO BANKRUPT. WE WOULD BE. THIS
IS NOT A GOOD BUSINESS MODEL
RIGHT NOW. UH UM. I DON'T KNOW
WHAT YOU'RE HOPING FOR, BECAUSE
I'M HOPING THAT AS THE SAVINGS
COME OUT. UM, YOU KNOW, I HAVE A
BILL IN FULL DISCLOSURE. A B 91
TO SAY FACT WHICH ONE TO TAKE
THAT $200 MILLION WORTH OF
SURPLUS FROM THE SAVINGS. AND
THEN PLOW IT BACK INTO COMMUNITY
. SO YOU NEVER HAVE TO WORRY
ABOUT PEOPLE COMING IN. SO WE DO
THINGS LIKE 50 MILLION FOR YOU
THREE INVESTMENT GRANTS FOR
DIVERSION PROGRAMS 35 MILLION
SUPPORTIVE PROGRAMS CEASEFIRE IN
OAKLAND. THAT REDUCED GANG
VIOLENCE AND INVOLVEMENT. 50
MILLION FOR SCHOOL BASED HEALTH
STANDARDS. 50 MILLION TO EXPAND
COGNITIVE BEHAVIORAL
INTERVENTION FOR TRAUMA IN
SCHOOLS. 50 MILLION TO SUPPORT
RECREATIONAL HEALTH BASED
OPPORTUNITIES DURING TIMES OF
PEAK VIOLENCE. THAT'S WHAT WE'RE
THAT'S WHERE WE'RE AT. AND SO I
HAD A QUESTION ABOUT THE
ADMINISTRATION. BUT WE? WE NEED
SOMETHING. I WOULD LIKE
SOMETHING BEFORE. I GO. I KNOW
YOU'RE SAYING YOURSELF AND HE,
TOO, SHALL PASS. BUT BEFORE I
GO, I'M GONNA MAKE EVERY EFFORT
TO GET THAT INFORMATION BECAUSE
WE ABSOLUTELY DO WANT TO DO
THIS. IN THE MOST SAFE AND
EFFECTIVE WAY. THAT NOT ONLY
PROTECTS THE BUDGET BUT THE
PUBLIC, BUT I ALSO DON'T BELIEVE
WE NEED TO LAY OFF ANYONE. WITH
ATTRITION AND OTHER THINGS. UM
NO ONE SHOULD BE FEARING THAT
THEY'RE GOING TO LOSE THEIR JOB.
THAT SHOULD NOT BE A CONCERN. SO
THAT WE CAN USE THOSE MONIES. SO
THAT WE CAN ULTIMATELY CONTINUE
TO REDUCE THE AMOUNT OF PEOPLE
WHO ARE GOING INTO SCHOOL PRISON
PIPELINE AND THAT WE ULTIMATELY
HAVE A BUSINESS MODEL. THAT
ACTUALLY WORKS FOR CORRECTIONS
AND NOT AGAINST IT. AND SO IF
YOU IF YOU DON'T DO ANYTHING, I
DON'T KNOW IF I CAN GET YOU TO
PROMISE RIGHT NOW. MY ONLY
QUESTION IS, CAN I GET YOU TO
PROMISE LIKE YOUR TWO OTHER
PREDECESSORS AND YOUR
PREDECESSOR BEFORE THAT ONE? MR
LACKEY MAY HAVE BEEN HERE. I
KNOW MR KING WOULD CAN WE GET
WHEN CAN WE GET THIS
INFORMATION? CAN YOU GIVE ME A
DATE? WHEN YOU CAN GET ALL THE
INFORMATION THAT WE CAN MAKE AN
INFORMED DECISION IN A MONTH,
TWO MONTHS, BUT FOR ME, IT'S
BEEN 10 YEARS. SO WHEN CAN WE
GET THAT INFORMATION? WELL, I
THINK THE QUESTION WILL BE IS,
YOU KNOW WE PROVIDE INFORMATION
IN THE PAST HAVE ALREADY
COMMITTED, YOU KNOW A COUPLE OF
TIMES FOR TODAY TO WORK
TRANSPARENTLY AND PROVIDES SOME
SOME ADDITIONAL INFORMATION ON
HOW WE'VE COME TO THE CONCLUSION
ON THE PRISONS WE CHOSE AND THE
FACTORS THAT WE UTILIZED. UM AND
WE'VE I KNOW WE'VE PROVIDED THAT
FOR BOTH TV AND SEE, SEE, SEE,
AND WE'RE MORE THAN WILLING TO
PROVIDE IT FOR THE OTHER
PRISONS. MORE THAN WILLING TO
WALK THROUGH THE METHODOLOGY WE
UTILIZED AND CHOOSING THOSE
PRESENTS. UM AND WE'RE ALSO LIKE
I STATED EARLIER ARE GOING TO BE
WORKING ON A PLAN TO SEE WHAT WE
THINK IS A REASONABLE CAPACITY
LEVEL. UH YOU KNOW FOR THE
DEPARTMENT GOING FORWARD,
NOTING, YOU KNOW THE REASONS I
BROUGHT UP EARLIER. UM SO I
CAN'T COMMIT TO THAT. AND IF WE
WANT TO SIT DOWN THE NEXT COUPLE
OF WEEKS MORE THAN WILLING TO DO
THAT. I IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU'RE
SAYING I DON'T WANT TO GIVE YOU
THIS INFORMATION. THAT'S WHAT IT
SOUNDS LIKE. THAT'S WHAT'S
COMING CLEAR ON THIS SIDE OF THE
TABLE. I WILL ALSO SHARE. THANK
YOU, MR JOHN SAWYER AT THAT THE
ELIO IS RECOMMENDED THAT, UH, WE
ACTUALLY SET A DATE OF JANUARY
10TH 2020, FOR AT LEAST TO BE
ABLE TO GET A REPORT ABOUT THE
LONG TERM EMPTY BED NEED AND I
WOULD WE ARE NOT TAKING ACTION
TODAY, BUT I WOULD STRONGLY URGE
YOU TO HOLD THAT DATE IN MIND.
WE WOULD HAVE NO TROUBLE MEANING
THAT DATE, MADAM CHAIR. THANK
YOU. THANK YOU, MR KING AND MR
PATTERSON. THANK YOU, MADAM
CHAIR. UM QUESTIONS FOR LEO. UM
. WHAT'S THE GENERAL FUND
PROPOSAL FOR CORRECTIONS? THIS
YEAR. WHAT'S THE POPULATION OF
93,000, RIGHT? UH 14.5 BILLION
TO OPERATE CDCR IN 2023 24 10
YEARS AGO. WHAT WAS THE BUDGET
PROPOSAL? UM. I DON'T HAVE THAT
BUT IN FRONT OF ME, BUT, UM,
SUBSTANTIALLY LOWER NINE BILLION
MY RECORD SOUNDS ABOUT RIGHT. IT
MIGHT BE IN THE AGENDA HAVE A
SENSE OF WHAT THE POPULATION WAS
BACK THEN, UM SO PROBABLY
AROUND. MR JOHNSON, ONE MIGHT BE
IN THE THAT 190 OR 2018 19. IT
WAS ABOUT 130,000. RIGHT I'LL
LET I'LL LET I DON'T HAVE THE
NUMBERS IN FRONT OF ME. MR
LEWIS, PLEASE. YOU PLAYED, YOU
KNOW BETTER, BUT JUST, UM AT
THAT POINT, WE WERE STARTING THE
TRANSITION INTO OTHER THINGS, SO
OUR POPULATION HAD ALREADY
STARTED TO DECLINE ABOUT A
DECADE AGO. UM AND IF I DON'T
KNOW THE EXACT NUMBER, BUT IT
WAS SOMEWHERE IN THE LIKE ONE
FORTIES. AT THAT POINT, UM YES.
BUT BUT BUT ALAGIC, AS YOU CAN
SEE, YOU CAN SEE IT'S ON IN THE
GENERAL FUND. IT'S ABOUT A 50%
INCREASE IN. IT'S ABOUT NOT
QUITE A 50% DECREASE, BUT LET'S
SAY 35% OR SO. UM WHAT'S THE
TYPICAL. EITHER. ONE TYPICAL
PRISON HOLDS ABOUT HOW MANY
PEOPLE. I MEAN, WE HAVE, YOU
KNOW, OBVIOUSLY A WIDE VARIETY
OF CAPACITY, BUT SOMEWHERE
AROUND 2500 TO 3000 AND JUST SAY
THAT WHEN THE STATE CLOSES A
PRISON, IT NEEDS TO THINK ABOUT
THE AMOUNT OF CAPACITY LOSSES,
THE NUMBER THE CAPACITY OF THE
PRISON TIMES. 1 37.5% OF DESIGN
CAPACITY. AND THAT ROUGHLY COMES
OUT ON AVERAGE TO AROUND 3400
SORT OF THE AVERAGE SIDES
PRISON. 253,400 SO WHEN YOU HAVE
. EVEN AFTER YOU'VE ANNOUNCED.
THE YARDS AND SIX PRISONS AND
THE TWO PRISONS. WITH 15,000
EMPTY BEDS. JUST DOING BACK OF
THE ENVELOPE MAP. THAT'S A FIVE
PRISONS. FAIR COUNT. IS THAT A
FAIR STATEMENT? WE ESTIMATE 5
20,000 EMPTY BEDS COULD YIELD
FIVE PRISONS WITH AND RETAIN
2500 EMPTY. YEAH BUT ROUGHLY
VERY YES ARGUMENT. JUST TRYING
TO BE CONSERVATIVE. BILL.
BECAUSE PRETTY GOOD, WELL, YOU
KNOW, MR LOCKETT, I'M PRETTY
CONSERVATIVE IN THIS COMMITTEE.
WE AGREE ON MOST THINGS IN THIS
COMMITTEE. AS YOU KNOW, UH, BUT
ROUGHLY YOU DON'T FIND SO WE GOT
FIVE TO SEVEN PRISONS. THAT ARE
EMPTY. THE EQUIVALENT. SO THERE
IS THERE AN EXPLANATION AS TO
WHY AND JUST JUST JUST TO DO
PERCENTAGES RIGHT SO BEFORE THE
BUFFER WAS 2500, WHICH WOULD
HAVE BEEN A ONE OR 2% BUFFER.
NOW YOU'RE ASKING FOR A 20. 15
20% BUFFER. SO WHAT? WHAT WHAT?
WHAT'S WHAT'S THE LOGIC BEHIND,
LEAVING FIVE PRISONS EMPTY. I
WANT TO BE CLEAR. WE HAVEN'T
PROPOSED FURTHER CLOSURES. BUT
THAT DOESN'T NECESSARILY MEAN
THAT WE'RE PROPOSING TO KEEP
THAT ENTIRE CAPACITY FOR THAT
LONG TERM. IT'S JUST, YOU KNOW,
YOU KNOW, AS SECRETARY, MCCUMBER
SAID, WE'RE UNDERGOING A LOT OF
CLOSURES. RIGHT NOW. WE'RE
CLOSING SIX YARDS, THREE D J J
FACILITIES AND ONE PRISON. UM
AND YOU KNOW IN THE NEXT FISCAL
YEAR WILL CLOSE ANOTHER, SO
THERE'S A LOT OF WORK BEING DONE
TO CLOSE CAPACITY RIGHT NOW. I
THINK OVER THE LONG TERM,
EVERYBODY RECOGNIZES WE'LL HAVE
TO LOOK AT OUR CAPACITY ISSUES
AND ADJUST OUR CAPACITY. BUT WE
WANT TO DO IT IN A THOUGHTFUL
MANNER THAT THAT BUT BUT COULD
YOU ANSWER THE QUESTION? WHY?
WHY WHY LEAVE FIVE EMPTY PRISONS
OPENED FULLY STAFFED. THE
EQUIVALENT OF FIVE MP PRISONS
OPENED FIVE AGAIN. THE
CONSERVATIVE ESTIMATE COULD BE
SEVEN. FULLY STAFFED AND
OPERATING AND JUST TO GIVE MATH
, RIGHT? I MEAN, YOU KNOW FOR
EACH OF THESE PRISON CLOSURES
THAT WE TALKED ABOUT 150,000,140
MILLION UNDER 35 MILLION. LET'S
JUST CALL IT 100 150 MILLION
BECAUSE IT'S EASY TO DO MATH.
RIGHT. 150 MILLION TIMES FIVE.
THAT'S CAN CLOSE $2 BILLION SO
WHAT? WHAT? WHY? I MEAN IS THAT
YOU NEED HELP BECAUSE I THINK WE
COULD HELP WITH THAT. I THINK
MADAM CHAIR COULD PROBABLY
RECOMMEND FIVE PRESENT CLOSURES.
IS THERE. IS THERE A REASON? AS
. TO WHY WE'RE HAVING 15,000.
20,000 EMPTY BETS. THAT'S JUST I
THINK. ONCE AGAIN, IT'S
IMPORTANT TO CONSIDER THE LEO'S
20,000 BEDS IS IN 2027. SO
THAT'S SEVERAL BUDGET CYCLES
BEYOND THIS BUDGET CYCLE, 15,000
BEDS UM AND WE ARE IN THE
PROCESS OF CLOSING A LOT OF BEDS
THIS YEAR AND WILL HAVE TO
CONSIDER CONTINUE TO CONSIDER
OUR CAPACITY AND WHAT WE NEED
TO, AND SO WE MAKE THOSE
DECISIONS REGULARLY. AS FAR AS
UM YOU KNOW THE POPULATION
POPULAR REASON FOR KEEPING
15,000 BEDS OPEN RIGHT NOW. WE
ALSO HAVE TO CONSIDER THAT AND
WHILE THE COVID EMERGENCY HAS
HAS ENDED FOR THE STATE, WE
STILL HAVE TO CARRY, UM SOME
BEDS FOR COVID, UH, FOR THE YOU
KNOW, OR COURT ORDERS RELATED TO
THAT FOR A PLOT TO THAT WE HAVE
TO KEEP GOING UNTIL THAT THAT
ORDER HAS BEEN VACATED. SO
THERE'S A LOT OF CONSIDERATIONS
RIGHT NOW THAT WE HAVE TO KEEP
IN MIND. I HAVEN'T HEARD
ANYTHING. I'VE JUST HEARD A LOT
OF I MEAN, I THINK YOU'RE I
DON'T. I DON'T THINK YOU'RE
GIVING US FRANK. DOES ANYONE
WANT TO GIVE US A FRANK ANSWER?
BECAUSE THIS IS I FEEL LIKE
YOU'RE YOU'RE DANCING AND YOU'RE
NOT REALLY DANCING VERY WELL. SO
LET ME JUMP IN HERE. SOME OF
THEM RIGHT? I THINK THE OTHER
REALITY IS WE DID NOT EXPECT TO
HAVE THIS LEVEL OF WHAT'S BEEN
REFERRED TO AS VACANCIES.
OBVIOUSLY WITH THE COVID
PANDEMIC, WE DROPPED 20 25,000
IN OUR POPULATION OVER THE LAST
COUPLE OF YEARS THAT I DON'T
THINK ANYONE EXPECTED, AND I
THINK A LOT OF US EXPECTED. ONCE
COVID ENDED, AND SOME OF THOSE
COURT DEFERRALS AH, YOU KNOW,
CAME FOLKS CAME BACK TO COURT
FOR SENTENCING THAT THEY COME
INTO THE PRESIDENT. WE HAVE NOT
SEEN THAT TODAY. UM AND SO I
UNDERSTOOD RIGHT. BUT BUT BUT
AGAIN, THE THIS IS THE ONLY
AGENCY WE SAY THIS EVERY SINGLE
YEAR. IF WE WERE JUST LEFT SUB
ONE SUB ONE HAS THE OPPOSITE
RIGHT. THEY HAVE A HUGE AMOUNT
OF NEED, AND EVEN AS THEIR KNEE
GOES UP, THEIR BUDGET GOES DOWN.
RIGHT YOU HAVE THE OPPOSITE
GRAPH. THE NEED GOES DOWN IN
YOUR BUDGET GOES UP. SO GIVEN
THAT YOU KNOW, WE'RE BILLIONS OF
DOLLARS IN THE HOLE THIS YEAR.
WHAT IS THE FISCAL REASON. WITH
ANY REASON. ACTUALLY, I HAVEN'T
HEARD ANY REASON WHY WE'RE
HAVING. ALL THESE BACON BEDS AND
I HEARD, YOU KNOW COVID. WELL
AND THE COVID REASON IS WE WE'VE
WE'VE HAD TO HOLD THROUGH THE
PANDEMIC SPACE OPEN FOR BOTH
QUARANTINE AND ISOLATION SPACE.
BUT NOW THAT'S OVER, CURRENTLY
LOOKING AT REDOING IT. WELL,
IT'S NOT NECESSARILY OVER IN
TERMS OF THE REQUIREMENTS, BUT
WE'RE LOOKING AT WHETHER WE CAN
CONTINUE THOSE REQUIREMENTS AND
YOU KNOW, RELATIVES, YOU KNOW,
SERIES SERVED BUDGET IS
INCREASING. BUT A LOT OF THAT IS
SOME OF THE INVESTMENTS THAT
WE'VE WORKED AT THE LEGISLATURE
ON AND WE ROLLED OUT SUBSTITUTES
AND THIS SORT OF TREATMENT MET
THERAPY. THE LEGISLATURE WAS
KIND ENOUGH TO GIVE US THINK IT
WAS UP TO $300 MILLION FOR THAT.
WE'VE BROUGHT OUT HEPATITIS C
TREATMENT WE HAVE, YOU KNOW,
NATIONWIDE LEADING PROGRAM.
WE'VE VIRTUALLY CURED, YOU KNOW
, HEPATITIS WITHIN THE PRESENT
SYSTEM. NO OTHER STATE HAS DONE
THOSE TYPE OF THINGS. WE'VE HAD
A LOT OF INVESTMENTS AND
UNDERSTAND WHEN WE STAND BY
THOSE INVESTMENTS, AND WE'D LIKE
TO INVEST MORE, BUT RIGHT NOW,
THE INVESTMENTS GOING TO KEEP
BEING 15,000 BEDS EMPTY. I WOULD
RATHER GO INTO SUBSTANCE ABUSE
RATHER GO INTO MENTAL HEALTH
RATHER GO INTO OTHER THINGS. SO
I'M JUST TRYING TO UNDERSTAND.
WITH THE ANSWER IS AND WE'RE NOT
YEAH, ANSWER AND AGAIN.
ASSEMBLYMEMBER'S I'VE DISCUSSED
BEFORE THAT WHEN WE DO CLOSE
PRISONS, UH, THAT POPULATION IS
SPREAD AMONG THE REMAINING
INSTITUTIONS. AND WHEN THAT
POPULATION GOES TO THOSE
REMAINING INSTITUTIONS WEEK DO
NOT NECESSARILY HAVE CAPACITY
FOR THINGS LIKE EDUCATION,
COGNITIVE BEHAVIORAL THERAPY.
VOCATIONAL TRAINING. SO WHEN YOU
COMPACT THE PRISONS AND PUT MORE
PEOPLE IN THEM OUR ABILITY TO
PROVIDE THAT REHABILITATION
WHICH IS VERY IMPORTANT TO ME
GOES DOWN, SO WE WANT THE
OPPORTUNITY TO DO THAT
THOUGHTFUL ANALYSIS, EMPTY
PRISONS. YOU CAN YOU CAN GO
SOMEWHERE. SURE THEY SURE THEY
CAN HAVE SPACE. WE HAVE THE
SPACE WITH WITH, UH, WITH THE
DOWNSIDES I MENTIONED BUT BUT IT
SOUNDS LIKE NOT ONLY DO YOU HAVE
SPACE TO DO WHAT YOU JUST SAID.
YOU HAVE ALSO SPACE TO DO MORE.
CLOSING. THE OTHER PART. I THINK
I MENTIONED IN THE OVERALL
BUDGETARY IN WE SPOKE ABOUT THIS
EARLIER. TODAY WAS THE CONCERN
AROUND THE SIX YARDS THAT ARE
CLOSING. RATHER THAN ACTUALLY
PICKING AND CHOOSING SER
FACILITIES. BECAUSE THE SIX
YARDS CLOSING, IT'S ROUGHLY
ABOUT 150 MILLION IN SAVINGS,
AND THAT WAS THE SAME AS THE
SAVINGS IN DVR. SO AGAIN, IT
SEEMS LIKE AT A TIME WHEN WE'RE
LOOKING AT DOING SOME FELT
TIGHTENING. THE DEPARTMENT IS
NOT REALLY DOING THAT AND AGAIN
, I THINK IF THERE'S A GOOD
REASON, YOU KNOW, LIKE IF WE'RE
DOWNSTAIRS, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT
HEALTH CARE. THERE'S A GOOD
REASON WHY WE GOT TO SPEND MORE.
I THINK THIS COMMITTEE HAS BEEN
VERY RECEPTIVE TO IT. YOU KNOW
IF IT'S BECAUSE WE HAVE TO DO
REENTRY HOUSING OR IT'S BECAUSE
WE NEED CAMERAS, OR WE NEED TO
PROVIDE BETTER SAFETY FOR OUR
OUR STAFF. I MEAN, I THINK I
THINK EVERYBODY'S BUT THAT'S NOT
WHAT WE'RE HEARING. WE'RE
HEARING LIKE, YOU KNOW, WE'LL
GET BACK TO YOU. WE'RE NOT SURE.
UM WE'RE HEARING THAT YOU KNOW,
JUST CAUSE. IF I COULD RESPOND
TO SOMETHING, LENNY SHAMOTO
DEPARTMENT OF FINANCE SO FROM
THE SPRING PROJECTIONS TO THE
FALL PROJECTIONS, THE JUNE 30 23
NUMBER DECREASED BY OVER 9500.
SO UM, AS WE'VE SAID IN PREVIOUS
HEARINGS, THE POPULATION
PROJECTIONS CAN VARY FAIRLY
SIGNIFICANTLY. I'M LOOKING AT
THE OUT YEARS, THE JUNE 30 26
NUMBER. DECREASED BY ABOUT 6000
. SO I DON'T THINK THIS WAS, UM
THE ACCESS BEDS THAT WE WERE
ANTICIPATING. SO THERE'S BEEN A
LOT OF FLUCTUATION 21,000. SO I
UNDERSTAND. SO THE SEED, SO IT'S
LIKE, HEY, WE GOT NEWS. WE GOT
PROJECTIONS. WHAT I'M HEARING IS
WE DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO WITHOUT
IT. WE'RE WORKING ON IT. VERSUS
HEY! WE GOT NEWS, AND HERE'S OUR
PLAN. AND I THINK GOING BACK TO
WE'RE NOT LOOKING FOR A FORMULA.
IF IT IS I, YOU KNOW, WE COULD
GO TO SAKS STATE AND WE CAN GET
A BUNCH OF COMPUTER PROGRAMS WE
COULD DO THAT WE COULD DO THAT
OVERNIGHT. WHAT WE'RE LOOKING
FOR IS A PLAN. WE'RE LOOKING FOR
A LIST OF FACILITIES OFF THE
TABLE, BECAUSE IF YOU LOOK AT
THE OTHER CHART HOW MUCH MONEY
WAS SPENT IN ALL THE PRISONS
BEFORE THEY WERE CLOSED? IT'S
ALMOST EQUIVALENT TO, YOU KNOW,
OVER 100 MILLION CLOSE TO THAT'S
WHAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR, SO WE
DON'T SINK MORE MONEY. BECAUSE
LAST I CHECKED. WE'RE GOING
THROUGH BELT TIGHTENING, AND WE
NEED THAT MONEY TO SPEND ON
OTHER THINGS, YOU KNOW, LIKE WE
SAID, MENTAL HEALTH, HEALTH CARE
EDUCATION. AND I APOLOGIZE. I
HAVE TO CALL INTO A LIVE RADIO
SHOW, EVEN THOUGH THIS IS
ENTERTAINING, UM SO AGAIN COME
BACK AND DO MORE QUESTIONS, BUT
BUT AGAIN, YOU KNOW, THERE HAS
TO BE A REASON WHY WE'RE KEEPING
THIS MANY FACILITIES EMPTY
SPENDING THIS MUCH MONEY ON
THIS. EVERYBODY ELSE HAS ASKED
TO DO MORE WITH LESS. THANK YOU,
MR TING. MR PATTERSON. THANK YOU
VERY MUCH FOR THAT, UM. YEAH
THERE'S TOO MUCH. THERE'S BEEN
TOO MUCH AGREEMENT ON SOME
THINGS IN THIS COMMITTEE. SO IF
THE LAST COUPLE OF TIMES UM, BUT
I'M GONNA ASK SOME. AH SOME
QUESTIONS JUST TO HELP ME
UNDERSTAND? SOMETHING'S GOING
ON. BECAUSE YOU KNOW I'M NEW
HERE, BUT JUST TO PUT A LITTLE
BIT OF CONTEXT ON IT. I WORKED
IN THE CAPITAL'S A STAFF PERSON
. UM WELL FROM OH, 3 TO 2011 AND
MY LAST JOB, I GUESS MY SECOND
TO LAST JOB WAS WORKING FOR AT
THAT TIME. THE ONLY, UH I THINK
REPUBLICAN CHAIRMAN OF A SELECT
COMMITTEE, PRISON CONSTRUCTION
AND OPERATIONS AND I STAFFED
THAT COMMITTEE AND ACTUALLY, WE
INTERVENED AND THE THREE JUDGE
PANELS REPUBLICAN CAUCUS TO TRY
TO STOP THE EARLY RELEASE OF
INMATES AND I WAS INTIMATELY
INVOLVED WITH DISCUSSIONS ON
EVERYTHING FROM, YOU KNOW, TIME
CREDIT. HOW MUCH YOU GET FROM
STAYING IN COUNTY JAILS ARE
GOING TO PRISON, YOU KNOW, GOING
TO SAY PRISON AND THINGS LIKE
THAT. SO THIS IS AN ISSUE. I'VE
BEEN WORKED ON FOR A WHILE AND
HAVE BEEN FOLLOWING EVER SINCE,
UM SO YOU KNOW, JUST WITH THAT.
OBVIOUSLY SOME THINGS HAVE
CHANGED. I UNDERSTAND. UM YOU
KNOW WHEN THE 137 AND A HALF
PERCENT CAPACITY WAS PUT ON, YOU
KNOW THAT PUT A LOT OF PRESSURE
ON THE STATE TO FIGURE OUT YOU
KNOW HOW TO HOW TO RELEASE
PEOPLE AND WHAT THAT WOULD LOOK
LIKE, AND THEN I THINK YOU'VE
HAD IN MY VIEW. A LOT OF
NEGATIVE. UM POLICIES COME AS A
RESULT OF THAT, YOU KNOW, I
THINK WE WOULDN'T AGREE ON THIS
HERE BUT YOU KNOW, PROP 47 PROP
57 81 09. I MEAN, THE LIST SORT
OF GOES ON. BUT THOSE ARE
REACTION OF, OBVIOUSLY THAT YOU
KNOW THAT WAY BETTER THAN I DO.
UM BUT THIS IS AN ISSUE THAT'S
REALLY IMPORTANT TO ME. AND SO
I'M CURIOUS WHAT IT'S GOING TO
BE DIFFERENT PER SITE. BUT
WHAT'S GENERALLY SPEAKING,
WHAT'S THE CURRENT PRISON
CAPACITY? AS 100 AND 37 A HALF
PERCENT. IT'S CAPPED AT PER
FACILITY, THOUGH, BUT GENERALLY
SPEAKING, WHAT WOULD THAT BE?
BRAND 1 12 AND PULLING THAT UP.
SORRY 1 12 6 98, CURRENTLY 100
AND 12% AND THEN AND THEN ON
JUNE 30 WHEN CCS OR AROUND THEN
WHEN THE PLANNED CLOSURES THAT
ARE GOING TO TAKE EFFECT IN THE
BUDGET HERE. UM ARE ACCOUNTED
FOR IT SHOULD DROP TO AROUND
105. IT'S KIND OF OUR ESTIMATE,
BUT OKAY. SO WITH PLANNED
CLOSURES. WE'RE GONNA SO WE'RE A
DECREASE IN CAPACITY. BUT WE'RE
ALSO DECREASING. THE POPULATION
SO MUCH THAT IT WILL CONTINUE TO
DROP 5% SO ACTUALLY, I ALL OF MY
THE 15,000 NUMBER IS FOR THE
BUDGET YEAR, WHICH IS ALSO AFTER
UM C C C WILL OFFICIALLY BE
CLOSED. SO UM AS WELL AS WHEN
MANY OF SURE THE YARD CLOSURES
IF NOT ALL WILL TAKE PLACE. SO
AT THE 15,000 ALREADY INCLUDES
SOME REDUCTION RELATIVE TO WHERE
WE ARE TODAY, AND THEN THERE
WILL BE AN ADDITIONAL REDUCTION
WHEN CHUCKLE. WALLA VALLEY IS
CLOSED IN 2024 25. UM BUT, YES,
YOU ARE CORRECT. THERE'S SORT OF
THIS DECLINE IN CAPACITY
REDUCTION TO CAPACITY, BUT ALSO
BUT ON NET GROWTH IN EMPTY BEDS
OVER THE PERIOD BECAUSE THE
POPULATION IS DECLINING. SO MUCH
IS ALREADY SO LOW AND IS
DECLINING MORE OKAY? THANK YOU.
UM HONESTLY, I'M KIND OF
CONFUSED AT THE AGGRESSIVE
NATURE IN THE REDUCTION IN
PRISON POPULATION. UM JUST
RECENTLY, A PPC CAME OUT WITH
THEIR REPORT THAT, UM, YOU KNOW,
OBVIOUSLY, OUR CRIME AND
CALIFORNIA IS, UH THAT YOU KNOW
WE'VE DECREASED FROM, YOU KNOW,
50 YEARS AGO, BUT IN THE LAST
SEVERAL YEARS, IT'S BASICALLY
BEEN STAGNANT SINCE ACTUALLY
THIS RULING THAT IT'S KIND OF
GONE UP AND DOWN, BUT BASICALLY
, IT'S ESSENTIALLY BEEN THE
SAME. AND SO A COUPLE OF
QUESTIONS ON THE RELEASE OF
INMATES AND FROM COVID. HOW ARE
THOSE, UH, DETERMINED WHO WHO'S
GETTING RELEASED? HMM AND WHY?
BECAUSE THAT'S A PRETTY BECAUSE
RIGHT NOW WE HAVE A 25,000 FOR
SORRY, 15,000. UM. YOU KNOW
EMPTY BEDS IF YOU WILL VACANT
BEDS, BUT WE RELEASED 20 TO
25,000 PEOPLE DURING COVID. SO
WHAT? HOW DID WERE THOSE
PRIORITIZED? SO EARLY IN THE
PANDEMIC. WE DID RELEASE SOME
FOLKS, FOR EXAMPLE, LOWER LEVEL
FOLKS THAT WITHIN 60 DAYS OF
RELEASED CLEAR OUT SOME IT'S YOU
KNOW, QUICKLY CLEAR OUT SOME
SPACE BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY COVID
SPREADS VERY WELL AND PRISON
ENVIRONMENTS, NURSING HOMES AND
THE LIKE. AH MOST OF THE
POPULATION DROP. WE DIDN'T DO
EARLY RELEASES PER SE, BUT WE
DID WE STOPPED INTAKE FROM THE
COUNTIES. UH DURING COVID
BECAUSE WE DID NOT HAVE THE
CAPACITY AND DID NOT WANT TO
INCREASE OUR POPULATION. AND SO
WHAT YOU SAW WAS US HAVING TO
REIMBURSE THE COUNTIES FOR THE
COST OF HOLDING THOSE IN METRO
TWITTER WERE REQUIRED TO DO VIA
PENAL CODE. AND ONCE THE
PANDEMIC WAS OVER, WHAT WE
EXPECTED INITIALLY WAS, WE
THOUGHT THERE'D BE A BUNCH OF
FOLKS THAT WERE WILLING TO BE
SENTENCED AND WE'RE GOING TO
COME INTO THE SYSTEM THAT REALLY
DID NOT MATERIALIZE. AND YOU SEE
THAT IN THAT WERE BELOW
PROJECTIONS RIGHT NOW, SO THERE
WASN'T A MASS EARLY RELEASE
SCHEME WE DO PROVIDE CREDITS FOR
YOU KNOW, CREDIT EARNING
OPPORTUNITIES FOR COMPLETING YOU
KNOW, REHABILITATION PROGRAMS,
COLLEGE PROGRAMS EARNING
DIPLOMAS. THOSE TYPES OF THINGS,
THOUGH. THAT IS CORRECT, OKAY?
UM DO WE HAPPEN TO DOES ANY
THERE'S ELLIE NOTE ELIO KNOW
WHAT THE CAPACITY OF A GENERALLY
AGAIN, IT'S GOING TO BE
DIFFERENT EVERYWHERE BUT OF
COUNTY JAILS. AROUND 80,000 IS
THE RATED REGULATION CAPACITY
ROUGHLY AROUND OR NOT THE
POPULATION THAT CAPACITY OKAY.
AND I THE PARTY 1000% I'M JUST
KIDDING. 1000 RATED BEDS BY BSC
. SEE IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN
ROUGHLY AROUND THERE AND THEN
THE CURRENT POPULATION, UM AS
MOST RECENTLY REPORTED BY BSC C
IS AROUND 60,000. UM AND WHAT'S
UH, JUST TO HELP THE NEW GUY
OVER HERE, UM YOU KNOW,
OBVIOUSLY, I TALKED WITH COUNTY
SHERIFFS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.
AND UH, YOU KNOW, ISSUES BOOKING
PEOPLE CAN CAN YOU CONFIRM FOR
ME THAT, UM WHETHER OR NOT
PEOPLE RECEIVING THIS JUST GOES
OFF THE QUESTION. THAT YOU
WEREN'T IN TAKING PEOPLE FROM
THE COUNTY JAILS DO INMATES
RECEIVE MORE TIME WHEN THEY'RE
IN THE COUNTY JAIL VERSUS GOING
TO STATE PRISON? THREE DAYS,
SERVED FOR ONE AND SET IT TO UM
, OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD. I IT
MAY BE DIFFERENT BASED ON CASE
FACTORS, BUT INDIVIDUALS DO GET
PRE SENTENCED CREDITS FOR THE
TIME THAT THEY ARE IN COUNTY
JAIL, BUT I'D HAVE TO GET BACK
TO YOU ON THAT ANSWER. ANALYST.
ANYONE KNOWS IT FOR SURE. AND
THEN WHAT'S, UH, OKAY. THE L A L
HERE. WE GOT A QUESTION FOR YOU.
UM AND THIS? I THINK THIS IS
GOING TO BE MY LAST QUESTION
UNLESS IT SPARKS MORE. AH. SO
WHAT EXACTLY IS HAPPENING? OR
ACTUALLY, THIS IS GONNA BE A
CDCR QUESTION. WHAT EXACTLY IS
HAPPENING OVER THE NEXT COUPLE
OF YEARS? THAT WE SEE A DECLINE
IN PRISON POPULATION. WELL, I
THINK IT'S A FUNCTION OF SOME OF
THE PROPOSITIONS THAT YOU
MENTIONED BEFORE. OBVIOUSLY WE
DO NOT GET THE LEVEL OF INTAKE
INDUSTRIES. CHARLEVOIX ONCE DID
BECAUSE I THINK YOUR POINT BEING
THAT SOME FOLKS NOW SERVE THEIR
TIME AT THE COUNTY JAIL VERSUS
THE STATE PRISON LEVEL. UM WE'RE
ALSO SEEING FEWER FOLKS COMING
IN TO THE SYSTEM. I THINK YOU
HAVE ARE OPPOSITE RESEARCH HERE
LATER TODAY, THAT ACTUALLY DOES
OUR FORMAL PROJECTIONS WHO CAN
PROBABLY MUCH BETTER ANSWER THIS
THAN ME. OR ARTICULATED THAN ME
, BUT WE'RE SEEING, YOU KNOW,
FEWER PROJECTED COMING INTO THE
SYSTEM LONG TERM. OKAY? UM YEAH
, IT'S A VERY IT'S INTERESTING
BECAUSE YOU WOULD THINK THAT
MOST OF THE RELEASES OR, YOU
KNOW ADJUSTMENTS, THE
REALIGNMENT FROM THE VARIOUS
LAWS HAVE OCCURRED ALREADY. SO
THAT'S WHY MAYBE I'M INCORRECT
AT SAYING THAT, BUT THAT'S WHY
I'M KIND OF THINKING, UM YOU
KNOW, WE STILL SEE A DECLINE AND
IN POPULATION, BUT I WOULD THINK
THAT MAYBE ONE OR NINE 47-57 OF
I SEE YOU GUYS GIVING ME THE
HOOK HERE. SO UM YES ON BUT
HAPPY TO OFFER SOME BACKGROUND
HERE SO YOU'RE CORRECT THAT THE
EARLY RELEASES AND THE J
TEMPORARY SORT OF THE COVID
RESPONSES RELEASING PEOPLE
GENERALLY SIX MONTHS OR SO
BEFORE THEY WOULD HAVE OTHERWISE
BEEN RELEASED, AS WELL AS HAVING
PEOPLE STAY IN COUNTY JAIL, UM
LONGER OR POTENTIALLY SERVING
THEIR ENTIRE TERM AND BEING
RELEASED FROM COUNTY JAIL IF
THEY HAD A RELATIVELY SHORT
PRISON TERM AND WEREN'T
ULTIMATELY IN TAKEN INTO CDCR
AFTER THE HALT ON INTAKE WAS
LIFTED. UM ESSENTIALLY, THOSE
FACTORS HAVE KIND OF RUN THEIR
COURSE. AND IT'S POSSIBLE THAT
THERE'S SOME LIKE MAYBE BACKLOGS
IN COURT CASES, OR MAYBE SORT OF
CRIME DECLINED DURING THE
PANDEMIC THAT CAUSES TEMPORARY
DECLINE. UM BECAUSE THERE WAS A
DECLINE IN CRIME EARLY ON IN THE
PANDEMIC AND CERTAIN TYPES OF
CRIME. UM SO THERE COULD BE SOME
ISSUES THINGS AROUND THE MARGIN
WHERE WE'RE STILL SEEING EFFECTS
FROM THE PANDEMIC ON THE PRISON
POPULATION. BUT BY AND LARGE, IT
APPEARS THAT AS FAR AS WE
UNDERSTAND THOSE HAVE KIND OF
WORKED THROUGH THE SYSTEM AND
ARE BACK TO STEADY STATE. WHAT'S
REALLY DRIVING THE DECLINE RIGHT
NOW? THAT WAS ALREADY ALWAYS
GOING TO OCCUR AS FAR AS WE CAN
TELL, ESSENTIALLY WAS
PROPOSITION 57, SPECIFICALLY,
THE CREDIT EARNING COMPONENT. UM
AND THAT GAVE CDCR THE AUTHORITY
TO, UM ADJUST OR TO SET CREDITS
THROUGH REGULATIONS. SO UM,
THERE'S BEEN VARIOUS DIFFERENT
ADJUSTMENTS TO THOSE REGULATIONS
. BUT UM, THE PACT CREDIT
PACKAGE THAT WAS INTRODUCED UM
OR FIRST ANNOUNCED IN SPRING
2020 SO KIND OF RIGHT AROUND THE
SAME TIME THAT THE COVID
RESPONSES WERE STARTING TO PICK
UP. UM WAS PROJECTING A VERY
SIGNIFICANT DECLINE IN THE
POPULATION AND CDCR OFFICE OF
RESEARCH DOES ATTEMPT TO ACCOUNT
FOR POLICY CHANGES IN THEIR
PROJECTIONS. BUT THERE'S BEEN
ALSO A LOT OF OTHER UM,
SENTENCING CHANGES IN RECENT
YEARS THAT YOU KNOW, IT'S
DIFFICULT TO ACCOUNT FOR ALL ALL
OF THOSE LITTLE NOT LITTLE, BUT
THEY ALL ADD UP ESSENTIALLY. AND
SO WHAT WE'RE LEFT WITH IS UM
YOU KNOW, WE ARE. WE KIND OF
WE'RE GONNA PROBABLY END UP AT
THIS PLACE WHERE WE ARE,
REGARDLESS OF COVID. BUT COVID
PERHAPS GOT US THERE FASTER IF
THAT MAKES SENSE. WELL THANK YOU
. UM, I'M CONCERNED. YOU LIKE
QUÊ ME RIGHT UP. SO UM, THANK
YOU FOR THAT. I'M CONCERNED THAT
IN ADDITION TO YOU KNOW, MY
COLLEAGUES NOT REALLY KNOWING OF
A CLEAR PLAN TO GET TO, UM YOU
KNOW CLOSURES, WHICH I'M NOT
SURE I FULLY SUPPORT ANYWAYS.
ALTHOUGH NOT REALLY KNOWING WHAT
WE'RE DOING. I'M CONCERNED ABOUT
THAT. BUT I'M ALSO CONCERNED
ABOUT MAY HAVE HEARD, UM, LACK
OF UNDERSTANDING. I THINK WE
HAVE ON HOW THESE THINGS HOW THE
REDUCTION IS WORKING. YOU KNOW,
MAYBE THAT WILL BE A TIME FOR ME
TO HANG OUT A LITTLE LONGER HERE
TODAY, BUT, UM, I THINK WE'VE
GOT TO HAVE MUCH MORE CLARITY ON
WHO'S BEING RELEASED. WHY IS
BEING RELEASED? I'M FAMILIAR
WITH THE REGULATIONS, THE NEW
ONES. UM, BUT I'M NOT FULL. I
DON'T FULLY UNDERSTAND HOW
THAT'S HAPPENING, AND I THINK
IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT BECAUSE WE
HAVE TO GO BACK TO CONSTITUENTS
AND SAY HEY, LOOK, UM IN INMATES
ARE BEING RELEASED BECAUSE OF
THESE POLICIES AND BY THE WAY, A
LOT OF THEM ARE SET UP BY
REGULATION THROUGH STATUTORY
AUTHORITY. ALLEGEDLY SO I THINK
WE NEED SOME MORE CLARITY ON HOW
RELEASES ARE OCCURRING AND WHY.
BUT I'M GOING TO END IT ON A
GOOD NOTE WITH IN AGREEMENT WITH
MY COLLEAGUE OVER HERE THAT MR
JONES. SAWYER THAT WE DEFINITELY
DON'T WANT THE LEGISLATURE
DECIDING WHICH PRISONS ARE GOING
TO BE CLOSED BECAUSE I'M IN FULL
AGREEMENT. WE WOULD MESS IT UP.
UM SO I THINK, BUT WE HAVE OUR
RESPONSIBILITY TO PROVIDE
OVERSIGHT OVER THAT AND MAKE
SURE IT'S DONE FISCALLY
RESPONSIBLY. BUT I DEFINITELY
DON'T WANT TO BE IN A POSITION
TO WHERE WE'RE HAVING A FIGHT
ABOUT THAT ALL 120 OF US BECAUSE
WE'LL HAVE 100. 20,000 DIFFERENT
OPINIONS ON HOW THAT SHOULD
HAPPEN. SO THANK YOU. MR TING.
OKAY THANK YOU, MADAM CHAIR. UM
I WOULD JUST WITH THE CAVEAT
THERE, WHICH IS I TOTALLY AGREE
WITH BOTH OF YOU. MR JONES
STARRED IN PATERSON. BUT THE
CHALLENGE IS IF WE HAVE TO MAKE
, UH, FISCALLY RESPONSIBLE
DECISIONS, AND IF THEY DON'T GET
PRESENTED TO US THEN WE HAVE A
RESPONSIBILITY TO DO OUR JOB.
AND SO THAT THAT'S THE ONLY
WHICH, AS IMPERFECT. AND AS, UM
, CHALLENGING OF THAT AS I MAYBE
, BUT THAT'S NOT ALL I WOULD
SAY, UM, JUST GOING BACK TO THE
SECRETARY. I NOTED, THE
SECRETARY MENTIONED, UH,
ACTUALLY, I'LL STEP BACK FOR A
SECOND. I DID YOU KNOW, I WAS IN
A RUSH EARLIER, BUT I DO. I DO
WANNA FIRST. JUST APPLAUD. THE
GOVERNOR APPLAUD THE
ADMINISTRATION FOR CLOSING THE
FIRST TWO FACILITIES. AND THEN,
OF COURSE, THE NEXT TWO
FACILITIES. I MEAN, HE'S THE
FIRST GOVERNOR TO DO THAT FIRST
ADMINISTRATION DO THAT. WE THINK
I PERSONALLY THINK THAT WAS, UM
, THE ABSOLUTE RIGHT DECISION,
THE RIGHT MOVE AND EVEN THE
DISCUSSION ABOUT CLOSING FURTHER
FACILITIES IS A VERY MONUMENTAL
STEP AWAY FROM PREVIOUS
ADMINISTRATIONS. SO LET ME JUST
START OFF THE BAT, YOU KNOW,
APOLOGIZE BY NOT SAYING THAT
SOONER. UM I KNOW THE SECRETARY
HAD MENTIONED CONCERNS AROUND
THE THREE JUDGE PANEL LITIGATION
. UM IF YOU COULD, BECAUSE IT
SEEMED THAT YOU KNOW, I'VE HEARD
THAT THE LITIGANTS IN THE PAST
WERE INTERESTED IN HAVING SOME
SORT OF SETTLEMENT WAS THAT
WOULD THAT BE SOMETHING THAT
WOULD BE OF INTEREST TO YOU OR
ENCOURAGING TO YOU? IF YOU COULD
MOVING THAT DIRECTION TO GET OUT
FROM OTHER OUT FROM UNDER.
EXCUSE ME THAT PARTICULAR
LITIGATION. UH WAS I WANT TO
ANSWER CAREFULLY BECAUSE THEY
DON'T HAVE MY ATTORNEY HERE. BUT
YEAH, UH, I THINK IT'S SAFE TO
SAY THAT WE WOULD BE INTERESTED
IN BRINGING OUR LITIGATION TO A
CONCLUSION. PERFECT THAT WOULD
BE SAFE. PERFECT BUT A SAFE AS I
CAN DO IT. THAT SOUNDS GREAT,
AND I THINK AND WE WOULD. WE
WOULD WANT TO ENCOURAGE BOTH
PARTIES TO SIT DOWN TO FIND, UM
, RESIDENT RESOLUTION, SO I
WOULD JUST STATE THAT FOR ME
PERSONALLY FROM THE RECORD, YOU
KNOW, WITHOUT SAYING TOO MUCH
FOR YOU KNOW, NOT GETTING IN THE
STATE IN THE TROUBLE. I THINK WE
WOULD. WE WOULD REALLY ENCOURAGE
THAT AS WELL. UM GOING BACK TO
MR LEWIS. I THINK MR LEWIS
TALKED ABOUT HOW THERE'S UP. A
LONG RANGE CAPITAL PLAN. THAT
WAS THAT CORRECT? AND I ASSUME
WITHIN THE LONG RANGE CAPITAL
PLAN, AS YOU HAVE ALMOST 30
FACILITIES OR MAYBE A 30
FACILITIES WHERE YOU'RE LOOKING
AT, OKAY. THIS YEAR, WE'RE GOING
TO DO THIS THIS YEAR. WE'RE
GOING TO DO THAT, RIGHT? THAT IS
THAT. AFFAIR. UM YES. YEAH, I
MEAN, UM, THE STATES REQUIRED TO
COME UP WITH A CAPITAL OUTLAY.
UM FIVE YEAR INFRASTRUCTURE PLAN
, AND WE DO. YES I GUESS OUR
CHALLENGES SEEING THAT PLANTS
FAIRLY THICK. I MEAN TO BE LIKE
, YES, RIGHT. WHAT I DIDN'T SEE
THERE WAS THE PLANNED PART OF
IT. I THINK WHAT I SAW WAS EACH
FACILITY. WITH THEIR CAPITAL
NEEDS BUT DIDN'T SEE A
TIMEFRAME. YEAH. I'VE ONLY BEEN
ON THE JOB FOR SEVEN DAYS AND
FAIRNESS TO ME, BUT SO I'M
LEARNING. DRINKING A LITTLE BIT
THROUGH THE FIRE HOSE IS THE
TOUGHEST HEARING FROM THE FROM
THE, UH BUT, UH, YES. I MEAN,
YOU HAVE TO PLAN OUT WHAT YOUR
INFRASTRUCTURE NEEDS ARE, UM AND
THEN YOU HAVE TO PROPOSE CAPITAL
OUTLAY PROPOSALS. TO ADDRESS
THOSE WHICH GO THROUGH THAT THE
NORMAL CAPITAL ALI PROCESS SO
THE PLANNING PROCESS DOESN'T
ALWAYS MATCH UP WITH THE CAPITAL
ALI PROCESS, SO YOU DO TRY AND
DETERMINE WHAT YOUR YOUR LONG
TERM INFRASTRUCTURE NEEDS ARE
BUT THAT THE REST OF THAT NEEDS
TO GO THROUGH THE NORMAL CAPITAL
OUTLAY PROCESS TO GET PROPOSED.
TOTALLY GREAT, LIKE YOU KNOW, WE
HAVE EVERY YEAR. AH! YOU KNOW,
EVERY EVERY JUNE WE PASS A
BUDGET BECAUSE THIS
CONSTITUTIONALLY REQUIRED THE
ONLY THING I KNOW IS A BUDGET
THAT WE PASSED ON JUNE. 15TH
ISN'T GOING TO BE ENTIRELY
ACCURATE. THAT'S RIGHT. THAT'S
THAT'S GUARANTEED. IT DOESN'T
STOP US FROM DOING IT. WE DON'T
SAY HEY, WE'RE NOT GONNA DO IT.
BECAUSE THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE
OUT OF JOBS. YOU KNOW A LOT OF
TEACHERS, A LOT OF NURSES, A LOT
OF LOT OF FOLKS, YOU KNOW ALL OF
MOST PEOPLE IN THE ROOM. YOU
KNOW, I NEED THAT BUDGET TO
PASS. SO WE STILL DO IT RIGHT.
SO SO I GUESS YOU HAVE THIS LONG
TERM CAPITAL PLAN, BUT I THINK
WHERE I WAS GETTING TRIPPED UP
IS YOU KEPT SAYING, BUT YET YOU
CAN'T HAVE A LONG TERM. PRISON
CLOSURE PLAN. BECAUSE FOR US,
THIS IS WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO
AVOID. AND WE'VE BEEN SEEING
THIS IN COMMITTEE FOR A NUMBER
OF YEARS IS YOU HAVE THIS YOU
HAVE THIS CAPITAL THAT GETS
INVESTED AND AGAIN, YOU KNOW,
I'M NOT. I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT
SOMETHING. THE MINIMUMS OR YOU.
YOU KNOW YOU YOU GOT TO DO SOME
SORT OF UPKEEP BECAUSE YOU DON'T
WANT THIS TO BE OVERRUN BY
WHOEVER, UM BUT, YEAH, THIS LONG
TERM CAPITAL PLAN. UM AND IN THE
KIND OF NEEDS TO DOVETAIL
SOMEWHAT WITH THIS PRISON
CLOSURE PLAN, AND I THINK ALL
WE'VE ALWAYS WANTED FOR PRISON
CLOSURE PLAN IS JUST KNOWING
WHO'S NOT ON THE LIST BECAUSE
EVERY YEAR WE GET A LIST OF AH
CAPITAL PROPOSALS AND WE FIGHT
OVER THEM WHEN WE GO BACK AND
FORTH WITH FINANCE ON THEM, AND
WE CAN'T APPROVE THEM BECAUSE
WELL, YOU WON'T TELL US IF ANY
OF THESE WHATEVER FIVE OR 10
FACILITIES IS ACTUALLY ON THE
PRISON CLOSURE PLAN. SO THEN WE
DON'T WE DON'T KNOW IF IT'S ON
THE PRISON CLOSURE PLAN. WHY
WOULD WE APPROVED A SINGLE ONE?
RIGHT. SO I GUESS HOW HOW DO YOU
HAVE A OKAY, HAVE A LONG RANGE
CAPITAL PLANNING PLAN BUT NOT
HAVE SOMETHING THAT DOVETAILS
AROUND PRISON CLOSURE. AND, UM,
I UNDERSTAND YOUR QUESTION. I
UNDERSTAND IT TO, UM YOU DON'T
HAVE ANY ANSWERS. I DON'T HAVE
AN ANSWER FOR YOU. UM RIGHT NOW,
BUT I MEAN, WE DEFINITELY DO SEE
THE NEED TO PLAN OUR CAPACITY.
UM AND WE'RE COMMITTED TO
LOOKING AT THAT. I THINK WE HAVE
COMMITTED TO KIND OF ADDRESSING
. UM SOME OF THE QUESTIONS OF
THE COMMITTEE AND OF DELHI, Ó.
UM BUT CAN I CERTAINLY CAN'T
COMMIT TO A PRISON CLOSURE PLAN
. I DON'T THINK THAT'S WITHIN MY
SCOPE OF DUTIES. BUT, UM BUT BUT
BUT AGAIN, I THINK, WELL, SOME
TO SOME EXTENT LIKE I'M EVEN
ASKING FOR ONE STEP REMOVED, AND
I'M ASKING FOR OKAY. AH! HOW?
HOW MANY FACILITIES DO WE HAVE
THAT AREN'T CLOSED. WHAT IS IT?
30 29, OR 30 32 32 SORRY, 32,
RIGHT? I THINK WE'RE JUST
SAYING, HEY, YOU KNOW WHAT 20
AREN'T ON THE LIST. TELL US
WHAT'S NOT ON THE LIST. OR COULD
BE TELL US WHAT 25 ON THE LEFT.
I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW. IT'S JUST
I THINK WHERE WE'RE LOOKING TO
BE ABLE TO MAKE TO DO OUR JOB SO
THAT WHEN IT COMES HERE, WE
DON'T HAVE TO ASK THE SAME
QUESTIONS AND NOT GET THE SAME
ANSWERS. RIGHT BECAUSE WE'D
RATHER BE IN A SITUATION WHERE
WE'RE SUPPORTING. YOU KNOW, YOU
GOTTA CAPITAL. I MEAN, EVERY
LIKE I'LL JUST TELL YOU HOW IT
WORKS AND ALL THE OTHER
COMMITTEES BECAUSE I GO TO ALL
THE COMMUNITY. I MEAN, YOU GOTTA
CAPITAL PLAN WE TALKED ABOUT OH,
èC WANTS TO BUILD A DORM. THEY
NEED A NEW SCIENCE HALL. WE SIT
THERE AND WE YOU KNOW, THESE ARE
THINGS THAT WE'VE BEEN
DISCUSSING. WERE LIKE, YES, WE
DON'T SIT DOWN, SECRETARY
SECRETARY. GO AHEAD. I THINK
WHICH WHAT YOU'RE GETTING AT IS,
YOU KNOW IF THE LANGUAGE DLL
PROPOSED AND IT WAS DISCUSSIONS
ABOUT THE IMPLICATIONS OF UH,
CLOSING SPECIFIC YARDS AND
THINGS LIKE THAT, AND CERTAINLY
IF THAT'S IN THE BUDGET, WE
WILL. WE WILL MEET THAT DEADLINE
AND PROVIDE THE INFORMATION. BUT
BUT I THINK ALSO GIVING US
HELPING US UNDERSTAND LONG TERM
AND THEN GOING BACK TO THE
15,000 BEDS, RIGHT? I MEAN, IF
YOU NEED SOME BUFFER OR SOME.
EMPTY ROOMS OR WHAT? WHATEVER
YOU NEED. YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO
COMMUNICATE WHAT YOU NEED RIGHT?
BECAUSE AT THIS POINT IT SOUNDS
LIKE WORK. WASTE OF MONEY ON
FIVE EMPTY PRESENTS. I THINK WE
ARE COMMITTED TO DEVELOPING A
PLAN THAT ADDRESSES UM YOU KNOW
THAT THAT ADDRESSES THOSE THE
DESIRE TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THE
CAPACITY NEEDS ARE FOR AND YOU
KNOW, I THINK WE I AGREE THAT
THAT IS SOMETHING THAT BECAUSE
OTHERWISE THEN YOU PUT US IN THE
SITUATION THAT MR JONES, SAWYER
AND MR PATTERSON DON'T WANT TO
BE PUT IN. ALL RIGHT. I DON'T
WANT TO BE PUT IN EITHER, UH,
THAT THEN WE'RE GOING. HEY. YOU
KNOW, WITH THIS KIND OF BUDGET
SITUATION MAKES NO SENSE TO HAVE
15,000 BEDS OPEN. SO THEN YOU
KNOW WHAT? WE WILL START TO GO
PICK RIGHT, AND I THINK ONE OF
THE IMPORTANT THINGS THAT
SECRETARY MCCUMBER HAS BROUGHT
UP SEVERAL TIMES IS THAT WE ALSO
NEED TO ADDRESS OUR UNDERLYING
PROGRAMMING NEEDS FOR THE
DEPARTMENT. UM AND SO THAT HAS
TO. WE HAVE TO LOOK AT ALL OF
OUR CAPACITY AND WHAT THAT
CAPACITY IS USED FOR ADDRESSING
THE VARIOUS COURT CASES, THE A D
, A COMPLIANCE ISSUES THAT WE
FACE AND EVERYTHING PUT ALL THAT
TOGETHER HOLISTICALLY TO KIND OF
DETERMINE WHAT THE LONG TERM
CAPACITY NEEDS ARE, AND I THINK
WE'RE ALL COMMITTED TO REALLY
LOOKING AT THAT OVER THIS AS WE
MOVE FORWARD, AND ALSO IN TERMS
OF CAPACITY, I MEAN THE
CAPACITY. LET'S JUST TALK ABOUT
WHAT IT MEANS IN REALITY.
CAPACITY IS PEOPLE STUFF. THAT
IS THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF
ALL THE FACILITIES. YOU KNOW,
IT'S ALL THE GUARDS ALL THE
MEDICAL STAFF, ALL THE REGULAR
STAFF. TO ME. THOSE ARE THE
FOLKS THAT, UM YOU KNOW ARE, YOU
KNOW MAKE MAKE THE PLACE RUN.
AND OBVIOUSLY YOUR ABILITY TO BE
ABLE TO HIRE OR RETAIN STAFF IN
THOSE FACILITIES. WE KNOW SOME
OF THESE FACILITIES ARE UNFAIRLY
REMOTE PLACES. UM SO AGAIN THAT
THAT ABSOLUTELY IS PART OF THE
REASON LOGIC PART OF THE PLAN. I
THINK THAT ALL MAKES SENSE. BUT
AGAIN, THAT'S NEVER BEEN
COMMUNICATED. RIGHT? SO WE ALL
WE CAN DO IS GAS ABOUT WHAT THAT
IS, UM BUT BUT AGAIN, I MEAN, I
THINK THAT'S THAT'S FAIRLY
IMPORTANT THAT THAT YOU KNOW
THAT THAT BE A FACTOR. BECAUSE
THAT'S THE ONE THING I MEAN, WE
CAN WE CAN MOVE MONEY IN
DIFFERENT PLACES. WE CAN MOVE
PEOPLE AND FIX THINGS IN
DIFFERENT PLACES, BUT YOU CAN
ALWAYS MOVE THAT STAFF. CAN YOU
KNOW? JUST YOU KNOW YOU GOT, YOU
KNOW, GOT FIVE DOCTORS HERE.
THEY MAY NOT WANT TO GO TO THIS
PLACE. IT'S JUST THAT'S JUST
REALITY OR PSYCHIATRISTS OR OR
GUARDS OR YOU KNOW WHAT? WHAT
HAVE YOU SO I THINK THAT IS, I
THINK A VERY VERY, UM YOU KNOW,
IMPORTANT CALCULATION BECAUSE
FRANK FRANKLY AND I SAID THIS TO
THE SECRETARY EARLIER TODAY IN
OUR IN OUR MEETING, UM TO ME.
I'M NOT SO FIXATED ON THIS.
DOLLAR AMOUNT BECAUSE WE STILL
HAVE TO DO MUCH BETTER. FOR ALL
THE STAFF. IN TERMS OF THE
FACILITY, THE ENVIRONMENT, THE
INVESTMENTS IN PROGRAMMING. AH,
LIKE I I'D RATHER. HAVE SOME OF
THE MONEY GO NOT TO EMPTY BAGS
BUT INTO MORE PROGRAMMING. YOU
KNOW WHETHER IT'S REENTRY
HOUSING, WHETHER IT'S AROUND,
YOU KNOW, PARTNERSHIPS WITH
COMMUNITY COLLEGES, WHATEVER ALL
THE DIFFERENT PROGRAMS THAT YOU
HAVE OUT THERE MUCH RATHER THAN
THAT IS WHERE THE MONEY GETS
REPURPOSED TO RATHER THAN
SOMEONE YEAH, PATROLLING A BUNCH
OF EMPTY FACILITIES. SO I THINK
THAT'S THAT'S WHAT WE WOULD LIKE
TO SEE, PERHAPS COME BACK
BETWEEN NOW AND MAY, UH, IN SOME
OF YOUR, UH, DELIBERATIONS
BECAUSE WE THINK THE
UNFORTUNATELY I THINK THE BUDGET
SITUATION IS GOING TO GET WORSE.
UM BUT YEAH, I THINK THAT I
THINK THERE'S MORE OPPORTUNITIES
IN THIS DEPARTMENT IN ALMOST ANY
DEPARTMENT. ANOTHER DEPARTMENT
THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT SO WITH
THAT WE REALLY APPRECIATE
ONGOING DISCUSSIONS. MR LEWIS?
UH LIKE I SAID, THIS IS IT GETS
EASIER FROM HERE. THANK YOU.
THANK YOU, MR TING. MR LACKEY.
YEAH, JUST REAL QUICKLY. I JUST
WANTED TO MAKE A REMARK. I'M NOT
GOING TO GRILL ANYBODY. I, UM I
HEAR A LOT OF TALK ABOUT PENAL
CODE 2067. AND COMPLIANCE WITH
THAT, AND WHEN WE LOOK AT THE
PRIORITIZATION AND THE FACT THAT
CALIFORNIA CITY CORRECTIONAL
FACILITY IS BEING SELECTED AS
ONE OF THE FACILITIES. I THINK
IT'S INCONSISTENT WITH 2067
BECAUSE IT STATES RIGHT IN THAT.
THAT STATUTE SAYS THAT THESE
DECISIONS SHOULD BE MADE IN A
MANNER THAT MAXIMIZES LONG TERM
STATE FACILITY SAVINGS AND
LEVERAGES LONG TERM INVESTMENTS.
HOWEVER WHEN WE LOOK AT THIS
PARTICULAR FACILITY WE WOULD
SAVE A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF
MONEY ON CAPITAL MAINTENANCE AND
INVESTMENTS SINCE IT'S AT LEAST
FACILITY. AND THE ANNUAL SAVINGS
WOULD ALSO BE SUBSTANTIALLY
LESS. BY CLOSING THAT FACILITY.
IF YOU LOOK AT THESE NUMBERS,
IT'S DARKLY IN CONTRAST TO 2067
, SO I FEEL SO IT'S JUST A
FISCAL COMMITTEE. AND I THINK
THAT THIS POLICY DECISION WAS
MADE ON SOMETHING OUTSIDE AND
REALLY DID NOT CONSIDER PENAL
CODE 2067. AND THAT'S REALLY I'M
NOT HERE TO GET YOUR REMARKS.
I'M JUST MAKING A STATEMENT THAT
I FEEL VERY PASSIONATE ABOUT,
ESPECIALLY SINCE HIS FACILITY
HAPPENS TO BE IN MY DISTRICT.
LIKE COULD I RESPOND? THANK YOU
. LENNY SHAMOTO DEPARTMENT OF
FINANCE. UM SO WE BELIEVE THAT
THIS IS WITHIN PENAL CODE 2067
IT SPECIFICALLY STATES THAT IT
INCLUDES THE EVALUATION OF IN
STATE LEASED FACILITIES. UM TO
CONSIDER FOR CLOSURE, AND IT
ALSO NOTES THE DURABILITY OF THE
PRISON SOLUTION AND BECAUSE IT'S
AT LEAST FACILITY AND IT
REQUIRES OUR PARTNERS, OF
COURSE, CIVIC AS WELL AS THE
DEPARTMENT TO CONSENT TO IT.
IT'S NOT REALLY WHAT WE WOULD
CONSIDER A DURABLE, ONGOING LONG
TERM PLAN. AND I'D ALSO NOTE
TIED TO THE ONGOING INVESTMENT
SITUATION. SO SINCE THE LEAST
BEGAN, THE DEPARTMENT HAS SPENT
260 MILLION ON THAT LEASE. WHICH
WOULD YES, THE DEPARTMENT DOES
NOT HAVE TO INCUR ON LONG TERM
CAPITAL PROJECTS OR ANYTHING
LIKE THAT. BUT THE LEASE ITSELF
FACTORS THAT IN AND THAT IS A
SUNK COST. THROUGH THE CHAIR.
THROUGH ALL DUE RESPECT, I THINK
THAT YOUR RESPONSE IS VERY
DEBATABLE. THAT'S ALL I CAN SAY.
THANK YOU, MR LUCKY MR TING
AGAIN. YEAH, AS USUAL. I'M
AGREEING WITH MR LACKEY AND, UM
I THINK THE WAY WE LOOK AT THIS
IS IF YOU LOOK AT PRIORITIZATION
IN TERMS OF COST UM, THERE ARE
OTHER FACILITIES THAT HAVE MUCH
GREATER COSTS BECAUSE THERE'S
SIGNIFICANT CAPITAL. WE'RE NOT
ON THE HOOK FOR CAPITAL. IT'S
PRIVATE FACILITY OR WE'RE DOING
IS PENALTIES. THERE'S NO CAPITAL
. WE'RE NOT GOING TO BE ASKED TO
FIX THIS WITH THAT. THAT'S PART
OF THE LEASE AGREEMENT. BECAUSE
WE'RE ATTENDANT. WE'RE NOT A
LANDLORD. UM AND WE THINK THAT
IN TERMS OF UM COST SAVINGS.
THERE ARE OTHER THERE ARE OTHER
FACILITIES THAT WOULD PRESENT
SIGNIFICANTLY MORE COST SAVINGS
THEN THAN THIS ONE. NOW IF YOU
OFFER, YOU KNOW THIS IS A
PACKAGE OF WHATEVER, EIGHT OR
SIX OR SOMETHING AND WE COULD
EVALUATE THIS. MAYBE THIS WOULD
FIT INTO SOMETHING THAT'S LARGER
PACKAGE. BUT WHEN IT'S WHEN
THERE'S SO MANY OTHER FACILITIES
AND YOU'RE DOING THESE PARTIAL
YARD CLOSURES IT. DOESN'T SEEMS
LIKE THIS IS WHERE YOU'D
MAXIMIZE YOUR SAVINGS AS WELL AS
PROTECTING THE STATE FROM ITS
LONG TERM RISK IN TERMS OF
CAPITAL EXPOSURE, BECAUSE NO ONE
CAN SUE US FOR ANYTHING THAT
HAPPENS IN THAT FACILITY FROM A
AH, BECAUSE WE DIDN'T DO YOU
KNOW, CAPITAL BECAUSE OF
CROWDING OR WHATEVER. THOSE ARE
THINGS THAT WE CAN WE CAN WE
HAVE MUCH LESS EXPOSURE THAN WE
DO FOR ALL THE OTHER FACILITIES.
WANT TO THANK MR LUCKY FOR
BRINGING THAT UP AS WELL. IT WAS
AN ISSUE THAT I'VE LIKED THAT I
FLAGGED AS WELL. IT'S A IT'S A
UNDER LEASE AND CREATES MORE OF
AN OPPORTUNITY FOR US NOT TO
HAVE THE CAPITAL OUTLAY OR THE
IT ALSO ME TO GET THE RISK FOR
US TO BE ABLE TO LEASE SO THESE
ARE THIS IS JUST A WINDOW QUITE
FRANKLY, INTO THE KIND OF, UH
DECISION MAKING AND THOUGHT
PROCESS THAT WE WOULD GO THROUGH
AS A LEGISLATURE IF LEFT TO OUR
OWN DEVICES. WITHOUT THE KIND OF
INFORMATION I THINK THAT WE
CONTINUE TO BE REQUESTING FROM
YOU ALL REGARDING HAVING A PLAN
TO BE ABLE TO UNDERSTAND THE
NEXUS BETWEEN THE CAPITAL
IMPROVEMENT PLANS THAT WE NEED
TO BE ABLE TO MAKE, UH REDUCTION
OF BED PLAN TO BE ABLE TO
MITIGATE FOR THE FACT THAT WE
ARE RIGHT NOW HAVE 15,000 BEDS
THAT WE KNOW ARE NOT GOING TO BE
FILLED THAT WE KNOW OVER TIME
WILL CONTINUE TO BE FILLED AND
WILL PROBABLY GROW AND THAT WE
WOULD LIKE TO BE ABLE TO MAKE
SURE THAT WE'RE APPLYING THE
RESOURCES THAT WE HAVE VERY
LIMITED RESOURCES THAT WE HAVE
TO THE KINDS OF PROGRAMS THAT WE
KNOW WILL KEEP THOSE BEDS AND
BEDS EMPTY OVER TIME. MR JOHN
SAWYER OFFERED ONE SUCH
PROPOSITION IN HIS COMMENTS
EARLIER. I CERTAINLY HAVE MANY
AS WELL AS DO I KNOW SEVERAL OF
MY COLLEAGUES ON THE PUBLIC
SAFETY COMMITTEE. SO WITH THAT I
WOULD LIKE TO JUST MOVE ON FROM
THIS PANEL. I VERY MUCH
APPRECIATE. BUT I HOPE THAT
YOU'VE HEARD US LOUD AND CLEAR
THAT WE ARE VERY MUCH LOOKING
FORWARD TO MORE ADDITIONAL
CONCRETE INFORMATION TO BE ABLE
TO HELP US MAKE THE DECISIONS IN
OUR OVERSIGHT. WILL MOVE ON NOW
TO ISSUE NUMBER TWO, WHICH IS
THE AUDIT OF CDCR S CONTROLLED
SUBSTANCES, CONTRABAND
INTERDICTION EFFORTS. THE
INSPECTOR GENERAL HAS PROVIDED A
HANDOUT FOR THE SUBCOMMITTEE
THAT SUMMARIZES THEIR FINDINGS.
THIS HANDOUT IS ALSO AVAILABLE
TO THE PUBLIC ON OUR WEBSITE. WE
WILL START WITH THE INSPECTOR
GENERAL.
GOOD AFTERNOON, MADAM CHAIR AND
COMMITTEE MEMBERS. I AM AMERI
SING THE INSPECTOR GENERAL.
THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO
PROVIDE AN OVERVIEW OF OUR
RECENT AUDIT OF CDCR S
CONTROLLED SUBSTANCES
INTERDICTION EFFORTS. WE HAVE
PREPARED A THREE PAGE FACT SHEET
THAT PRESENTS A HIGH LEVEL
OVERVIEW FOR YOU TO FOLLOW ALONG
AS I WALKED THROUGH THE
HIGHLIGHTS OF OUR AUDIT
FINDINGS. THE AUDIT OBJECTIVES
WERE TO DETERMINE WHETHER THE
DEPARTMENT'S PROCESSES IN PLACE
ARE EFFECTIVE TO PREVENT DRUGS
FROM ENTERING PRISON GROUNDS
THROUGH PEDESTRIAN AND VEHICLE
ENTRY POINTS AND INCOMING MAIL.
TO DETECT AND DISCOVER DRUGS
WITHIN THE INCARCERATED
POPULATION IN PRISONS AND TO
INVESTIGATE THE SOURCE OF DRUGS
DISCOVERED TO ACCOMPLISH OUR
OBJECTIVES. WE OBSERVED ROUTINE
ENTRANCE SEARCHES, BOTH AT THE
PEDESTRIAN AND VEHICLE ENTRY
POINTS. ENHANCED ENTRANCE
SEARCHES OF EMPLOYEES. ROUTINE
CELL SEARCHES, SEARCHES AT
INTERIOR PRISON WORK CHECKPOINT.
AND SEARCHES OF PRISON
MAILROOMS. WE REVIEW THE
DEPARTMENT'S USE OF AVAILABLE
RESOURCES AND TOOLS TO DETECT
DRUGS. INCLUDING THE USE OF
CANINES AND ELECTRONIC DRUG
DETECTION DEVICES. WE ALSO
REVIEWED THE DEPARTMENT'S
PROCESS FOR INVESTIGATING THE
SOURCES OF DRUGS DISCOVERED IN
PRISONS AND THE DEPARTMENT'S
DATA RELATED TO DRUG DISCOVERIES
IN ITS PRISONS. FINALLY WE
ANALYZED THE IMPACT OF VISITING
AND OPERATIONAL RESTRICTIONS
IMPLEMENTED IN RESPONSE TO COVID
NIGHT TO THE COVID 19 PANDEMIC
ON THE INTRODUCTION OF DRUGS IN
PRISONS. IN OUR AUDIT, WE FIRST
LOOKED AT THE CANINES AND
ELECTRONIC DRUG DETECTION
DEVICES AS RESOURCES THAT ARE
AVAILABLE TO CDCR TO PREVENT AND
DETECT CONTROL SUBSTANCES.
CHAPTER ONE OF OUR AUDIT REPORT
PROVIDES THE FULL DETAILS OF OUR
FINDINGS REGARDING CANINES. BUT
IN SUMMARY, I'D LIKE TO
INTRODUCE SOME INFORMATION. UM
THE U. S. NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF
JUSTICE REPORTED THAT THE USE OF
CANINES IS THE MOST WIDELY USED
AND TIME PROVEN METHOD FOR
DETECTING THE PRESENCE OF
ILLICIT DRUGS. CANINES CAN BE
TRAINED TO DETECT ANY TYPE OF
DRUGS AND ARE VERY VERSATILE.
SPECIFICALLY CANINES, MOBILITY
AND ABILITY TO FOLLOW SENSE
DIRECTLY TO THE SOURCE. CANINE
DETECTION, THE METHOD OF CHOICE
FOR A VARIETY OF SEARCHES,
PARTICULARLY SEARCHES COVERING
LARGE AREAS. SEE THESE TWO ARE
ALSO ACKNOWLEDGES THAT CANINE
SEARCHES ARE A PARTICULARLY
EFFECTIVE METHOD OF STOPPING
DRUGS FROM ENTERING THE PRISONS
TO DETECT CONTRABAND WITHIN THE
SECURE PERIMETER AND TO REDUCE
THE OVERALL LEVEL OF DRUGS,
CONTRABAND AND CRIMINAL ACTIVITY
WITHIN THE INCARCERATED
POPULATION. HOWEVER WE FOUND AT
THE PRISONS RE REVIEWED NO
PRISONS DO USED CANINES TO
SEARCH STAFF OR VISITORS AND NOT
ALL PRISONS INCLUDED IN OUR
REVIEW USED CANINES TO SEARCH
THE INCARCERATED POPULATION.
CANINE TEAMS WERE NOT ALWAYS
AVAILABLE TO CONDUCT FREQUENT
SEARCHES AT THEIR ASSIGNED
PRISONS. AND THE DEPARTMENT DID
NOT REGULARLY USE CANINES TO
SEARCH PRISON PROPERTY,
INCLUDING MAILROOMS. DESPITE
RECOGNIZING THAT CANINES ARE
AMONG THE MOST EFFECTIVE
RESOURCES TO BOTH DETER AND
DETECT DRUGS. CDCR DOES NOT
EFFECTIVELY USE ITS CANINE TEAMS
AT THE PRISONS. IN CHAPTER TWO
OF OUR AUDIT REPORT. UM WE
PROVIDE THE FULL DETAILS OF OUR
FINDINGS REGARDING ELECTRONIC
DRUG DETECTION DEVICES, BUT IN
SUMMARY LIKE CANINES CDCR
ACKNOWLEDGES THE USEFULNESS OF
ELECTRONIC DRUG DETECTION
DEVICES, BUT SIMILARLY ONLY USES
THEM IN LIMITED CIRCUMSTANCES.
AS PART OF OUR AUDIT WE REVIEWED
TO PILOT PROGRAMS THAT HAVE
ENDED AT CDCR, WHICH EVALUATED
THE USE OF ELECTRONIC CONTRABAND
DETECTION DEVICES, INCLUDING ION
SCANNERS. THE RESULTS OF THE
PILOT PROGRAM SHOWED THESE
DEVICES WERE FOUND TO BE
EFFECTIVE IN DISCOVERING THAT'S
REDUCING DRUGS IN PRISONS.
FOLLOWING THE DEACTIVATION OF
THE PILOT PROGRAM, CDCR CEASED
USE OF THE ELECTRONIC CONTRABAND
DETECTION DEVICES. WE HAVE TO
HEADQUARTERS MANAGER WHETHER
THERE WERE ANY REASONS THE
DEPARTMENT DID NOT, OR COULD NOT
USE THESE ELECTRONIC DRUG
DETECTION DEVICES ON STAFF AND
VISITORS. THE MANOR ACKNOWLEDGED
. THE MANAGER ACKNOWLEDGED THAT
STATE REGULATIONS AUTHORIZED THE
DEPARTMENT TO USE ION SCANNERS
ON ALL STAFF AND VISITORS
ENTERING THE PRISON. THE MANAGER
FURTHER RECOGNIZED THAT THE USE
OF ION SCANNERS HAD PROVEN TO BE
EFFECTIVE TO BOTH DETECT ILLEGAL
DRUGS AND DETER INDIVIDUALS FROM
BRINGING DRUGS INTO THE PRISONS.
THE MANAGER, HOWEVER, DID NOT
PROVIDE A REASON FOR PRISONS NOT
USING THESE DEVICES. WE FOUND
THAT DESPITE EVIDENCE
DEMONSTRATING THE EFFECTIVENESS
OF ELECTRONIC DRUG DETECTION
DEVICES, CDCR DID NOT USE THESE
DEVICES TO SCREEN FOR DRUGS AT
MOST STATE PRISONS. IN CHAPTER
THREE OF OUR AUDIT. WE LOOKED
INTO THE SCREENING PROCESS FOR
THE MAIN PEDESTRIAN ENTRANCE
CHECKPOINTS. MINIMUM SUPPORT
FACILITY. ENTRANCE CHECKPOINTS,
VEHICLE ENTRANCE CHECKPOINTS AND
VISITOR ENTRANCES. CD CRS
ROUTINE SCREENING PROCESS
REQUIRE STAFF TO CHECK THE
IDENTIFICATION AND BELONGINGS OF
EVERY PERSON WHO ENTERS A
PRISON. IN PRACTICE THIS PROCESS
AS A VISUAL VISUAL SEARCH.
GENERALLY SO BRIEF THAT IT IS
NOT EFFECTIVE. BUT EVEN IF
SCREENERS OPENED EVERY BAG AND
THOROUGHLY INSPECTED ITS
CONTENTS, THIS VISUAL SEARCH
WOULD BE UNLIKELY TO FIND DRUGS.
DRUGS ARE OFTEN PACKAGED IN
SMALL BUNDLES THAT ARE EASILY
HIDDEN INSIDE A CONTAINER SUCH
AS A THERMOS OR COSMETICS BAG.
THEY CAN ALSO BE CONCEALED ON A
PERSON IN LONG SLEEVES UNDER
STAB VESTS OR AND UNDERGARMENTS
OR EVEN SECRETED WITHIN THE
BODY. THE DEPARTMENT DOES NOT
USE CANINES OR ANY BARGAIN
BAGGAGE, PARCEL SCANNERS OR ANY
OTHER ELECTRONIC DETECTING
DEVICE TO THAT TARGETS DRUGS
WHEN CONDUCTING ROUTINE STAFF
SEARCHES AT ENTRANCES. DURING
OUR OBSERVATIONS, ENTRANCE
OFFICERS GENERALLY CHECKED FOR
IDENTIFICATION AND PERFORMED A
SEARCH CONSISTING OF A CURSORY
GLANCE LASTING 1 TO 2 SECONDS
INTO BAGS AND BELONGINGS OF
STAFF AND VISITORS. THE SEARCH
PROCESS DID NOT INCLUDE ANY
SEARCH OF THE PERSON OR ANY
ITEMS WARNED ON THE PERSON.
ENTRANCE OFFICERS ALLOWED STAFF
TO CARRY IN SOME BAGS THAT
EXCEEDED THE SIZE AND QUANTITY
LIMITS ALLOWED BY DEPARTMENTAL
POLICY, AND IN SOME INSTANCES,
STAFF WALKED INTO THE SECURE
PERIMETER WITHOUT SHOWING
IDENTIFICATION OR HAVING THEIR
BAGS CHECKED AT ALL. IN MOST
CASES, THE ENTIRE SEARCH PROCESS
TOOK ONLY SECONDS TO COMPLETE.
THE PRISON SEARCH PROCESS AT
VISITOR PEDESTRIAN ENTRANCES
WHERE PEOPLE ARE PROCESS BEFORE
THEY CAN ENTER THE SECURE
PERIMETERS TO VISIT AND
INCARCERATED PERSON WAS UNLIKE
WAS ALSO UNLIKELY TO FIND DRUGS.
OFFICERS CONDUCTED MORE RIGOROUS
SEARCHES OF VISITORS, AND THEY
DID HAVE STAFF AT THE MAIN
PEDESTRIAN ENTRANCE, AND THEY
CONDUCTED A THOROUGH INSPECTION
OF A VISITOR'S PERSONAL
BELONGINGS, BUT THE OFFICERS DID
NOT HAVE ANY DEVICES AVAILABLE
TO THEM THAT COULD ACTIVELY
DETECT DRUGS. THE SEARCHES WE
OBSERVED AT THE VEHICLE ENTRANCE
CHECKPOINT INTO THE SECURED
PERIMETER WERE ALSO INADEQUATE
TO DETECT DRUGS, EITHER THOSE
CARRIED ON THE PERSON OR HIDDEN
INSIDE OF THE VEHICLE. STAFF
CONTRACTORS, VISITORS AND
INCARCERATED PEOPLE CAN ENTER
AND EXIT A PRISON THROUGH A
SECURE VEHICLE CHECKPOINT IN
DELIVERY, UTILITY AND TRANSPORT
VEHICLES. OFFICERS ASSIGNED TO
VEHICLE CHECKPOINTS, CONFIRM THE
IDENTITIES OF THE DRIVER AND
PASSENGERS AND VEHICLES,
INCLUDING INCARCERATED PEOPLE.
THE OFFICERS THEN SEARCH THE
VEHICLE, INCLUDING PASSENGER
AREAS, CARGO AREAS IN THE
UNDERCARRIAGE. BUT THE SEARCH
FOCUSED IN GENERAL ON ENSURING
THAT THE VEHICLE DID NOT HAVE
UNACCOUNTED FOR PEOPLE SUCH AS
AN INCARCERATED PERSON
ATTEMPTING TO ESCAPE. AND I
DIDN'T AND. FOCUSED ON
IDENTIFYING LARGE CONTRABAND
ITEMS. THE SEARCH PROCESS THAT
VEHICLE CHECKPOINTS IN OUR
OBSERVATIONS WAS NOT LIKELY TO
IDENTIFY SMALLER CONTRABAND
ITEMS SUCH AS DRUGS THAT COULD
HAVE BEEN CONCEALED IN THE
VEHICLE OR ON THE PERSON. NEXT
WE ALSO LOOKED AT THE ADEQUACY
OF CDCR S PROCESS TO DETECT AND
DISCOVERED DRUGS WITHIN THE
SECURE PERIMETER AND CONDUCTING
INVESTIGATIONS DETERMINED TO
DETERMINE THE SOURCE OF THE
DRUGS. IN CHAPTER FOUR. WE
SPECIFICALLY LOOKED AT CELL AND
BUNK AREA SEARCHES. POLICY
REQUIRES HOUSING UNIT OFFICERS
TO SEARCH A MINIMUM OF THREE
CELLS, ROOMS, DORMITORIES OR
LIVING AREAS IN EACH HOUSING
UNIT DAILY DURING EACH OF TO
SHIFT SCHEDULED FROM SIX AM TO
10. PM DEPENDING ON THE TYPE OF
HOUSING UNIT OFFICERS CONDUCTING
A DAILY SEARCH GENERALLY TO THE
CELL, A BANK OR A LOCKER TO
SEARCH AT RANDOM UPON COMPLETING
THE SEARCH, THE OFFICER SHOULD
DOCUMENT THE CELL OR BUNKS AREA
THAT THEY'VE SEARCHED IN A LOG
FOR THE HOUSING UNIT. BASED ON
THE DOCUMENTATION DOCUMENTATION
WE REVIEWED, WE FOUND THAT THE
DEPARTMENT HAS NOT ESTABLISHED
PROCEDURES FOR CONDUCTING A
RECORDING DAILY CELL SEARCHES.
OFFICERS DID NOT ALWAYS COMPLETE
REQUIRED CELL SEARCHES, AND
THEIR SUPERVISORS DID NOT ALWAYS
REVIEW THE CELL SEARCH LOGS TO
CONFIRM OFFICERS CONDUCTED THESE
REQUIRED SEARCHES. BASED ON OUR
OBSERVATIONS, WE SAW OFFICERS
SEARCHES OF THE INCARCERATED
PEOPLE CELLS WERE OFTEN UNLIKELY
TO DISCOVER DRUGS AND BASED ON
THE TRAINING RECORDS WE REVIEWED
CELL SEARCH TRAINING IS NOT
SUFFICIENT TO ADEQUATELY TRAINED
THESE OFFICERS ON HOW TO
COMPLETE A FULL AND THOROUGH
CELL AND BUNK SEARCH. IN CHAPTER
FIVE. WE ASSESS CDCR S PROCESS
FOR DETERMINING THE SOURCE OF
DRUGS UPON DISCOVERING DRUGS
INSIDE A PRISON. DRUG
DISCOVERIES ARE GENERALLY
INVESTIGATED BY PRISON
INVESTIGATORS WHO ARE
RESPONSIBLE FOR COLLECTING,
RECEIVING LOGGING AND
PROCESSING. UM, EVIDENCE
ALTHOUGH CDCR HAS POLICIES IN
PLACE WHEN DRUGS ARE DISCOVERED
ON AN EMPLOYEE, WE FOUND NO
POLICIES OR PROCEDURES FOR
INVESTIGATING DRUG DISCOVERIES
IN PRISONS UNLESS THE CASE
INVOLVED DRUG OVERDOSES. FOR
OVERDOSES. THE DEPARTMENT ISSUED
A MEMORANDUM IN AUGUST OF 2019
OUTLINING STEPS THAT PRISON
INVESTIGATORS MUST TAKE AND
PERTINENT INFORMATION THEY MUST
COLLECT NGUYEN INVESTIGATING
SUSPECTED DRUG OVERDOSES AND
OVERDOSES, RESULTING IN DEPTH.
EVEN WITH THIS MEMORANDUM IN
PLACE FOR THE INVESTIGATION INTO
DRUG OVERDOSES, NOT ALL
OVERDOSES WE REVIEWED WERE
INVESTIGATED. OUR AUDIT ALSO
FOUND THAT DRUG DISCOVERIES AND
UNCONTROLLED AREAS OF THE PRISON
SUCH AS IN HOUSING UNITS OR
CLOSETS, UM AND THOSE THAT WERE
DISCOVERED IN THE MAIL, WHERE AT
LEAST LIKELY TO BE INVESTIGATED
TO DISCOVER THE SOURCE. PRISON
INVESTIGATORS AT EACH PRISON
REVIEWED ACKNOWLEDGED HAVING
MULTIPLE TECHNIQUES AT THEIR
DISPOSAL TO INVESTIGATE THE
SOURCE OF DRUG DISCOVERIES. BUT
WE FOUND THAT THEY DID NOT
CONSISTENTLY USED THESE
TECHNIQUES. IN CHAPTER SIX OF
OUR AUDIT REPORT. WE ASSESSED
SEARCH PRACTICES FOR THE
INCARCERATED WORKERS REPORTING
TO AN RETURNING FROM WORK
ASSIGNMENTS. WE OBSERVED. THE
INCARCERATED WORKERS WERE ALSO
NOT ALWAYS THOROUGHLY SEARCHED.
NEARLY ALL PRISONS EMPLOY SOME
INCARCERATED PEOPLE AND JOB
CATEGORIES SUCH AS JANITORIAL
SERVICES OR FOOD PROCESSING.
THESE JOBS OFTEN REQUIRE
INCARCERATED PEOPLE TO WORK IN
DIFFERENT AREAS OF THE PRISON
DURING A SHIFT AND AT TIMES TO
WORK OUTSIDE THE PRISON, SECURE
PERIMETER. THESE INCARCERATED
WORKERS. INCREASED MOVEMENTS
PROVIDES THEM WITH OPPORTUNITIES
TO REVEAL TO RETRIEVE CONTRABAND
, INCLUDING DRUGS AND COLLUDE
WITH OTHER PEOPLE TO SMUGGLE IT
BACK INTO THEIR HOUSING
FACILITIES. HOWEVER DESPITE THE
POTENTIAL INCREASED ACCESS TO
CONTRABAND AND DRUGS ASSOCIATED
WITH INCARCERATED WORKERS
MOVEMENT WITHIN PRISONS. THE
DEPARTMENT SEARCH OF
INCARCERATED WORKERS IS
INCONSISTENT. THE DEPARTMENT
DOES NOT CLEARLY DEFINE WHEN OR
HOW STAFF SHOULD CONDUCT SUCH
SOURCES, SEARCHES. AS A RESULT,
THE PRISONS WE REVIEWED LACKED
UNIFORM WORK CHANGE SEARCH
PROCEDURES FROM ONE PRISON TO
THE NEXT AND AT TIMES EVEN
LACKED UNIFORM PROCEDURES FROM
ONE FACILITY TO ANOTHER WITHIN A
SINGLE PRISON. IN ADDITION TO
THE INCONSISTENCIES AMONG
PRISONS AND PRISON FACILITIES,
WE FOUND THAT STAFF DID NOT
CONSISTENTLY FOLLOW THEIR OWN
PRISON SECURITY PROCEDURES WHEN
PROCESSING INCARCERATED PEOPLE
TO AND FROM THEIR WORK
ASSIGNMENTS. FINALLY IN CHAPTER
SEVEN, WE ASSESSED THE
DEPARTMENT'S DATA VALIDATION
PROCESS REGARDING THE DRUG CDCR
DISCOVERS STATEWIDE. OUR REVIEW
OF THE DEPARTMENT'S DRUG
DISCOVERY DATA SHOWED THAT THE
DEPARTMENT'S DATA IT WAS
GENERALLY INACCURATE. WE FOUND
THAT CDCR LACK SUFFICIENT
CONTROLS TO ENSURE THE ACCURACY
OF ITS DATA. IT DID NOT REQUIRE
STAFF TO LOG SEVERAL DRUGS THAT
HAVE A HIGH POTENTIAL FOR ABUSE
AND DEPENDENCY, AND IT LACKS
PROCEDURES ON DIRECTING ON HOW
TO REPORT DRUG DISCOVERIES. IN
CONCLUSION. OUR AUDIT IDENTIFIED
SEVERAL OPERATIONAL WEAKNESSES
WITHIN THE DEPARTMENT'S DRUG
INTERDICTION PROGRAM THAT ALLOWS
DRUGS TO CONTINUE TO ENTER
CALIFORNIA'S PRISON SYSTEM. WE
IDENTIFIED DEFICIENCIES AND
ENTRANCE SCREENING ROUTINE
SEARCHES OF INCARCERATED
PEOPLE'S LIVING AREAS AND WITHIN
PRISON PROPERTY SEARCHES OF
INCARCERATED WORKERS AND
INVESTIGATIONS INTO THE SOURCE
OF DRUGS DISCOVERED WE FOUND THE
DEPARTMENT DOES NOT TAKE FULL
ADVANTAGE. OF AN UNDER USES ITS
CANINE PROGRAM AND THE USE OF
ELECTRONIC DRUG DETECTION
DEVICES. IN OUR REPORT, WHICH IS
A LENGTHY REPORT THAT CAN BE
FOUND ON OUR WEBSITE. WE'VE MADE
19 SEPARATE RECOMMENDATIONS TO
CDCR FOR IMPROVEMENT. WE HAVE
REQUESTED CDCR PROVIDED STATUS
ON IMPLEMENTING OUR
RECOMMENDATIONS, AND WE WILL
CONTINUE TO MONITOR THAT
PROGRESS. THANK YOU AGAIN FOR
GIVING ME THIS OPPORTUNITY, AND
I AM HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY
QUESTIONS THAT YOU MAY HAVE.
THANK YOU, INSPECTOR GENERAL
MOVE ON. GOOD AFTERNOON, MADAM
CHAIR AND MEMBERS OF THE
COMMITTEE. MY NAME IS RON DAVIS.
I'M THE ACTING DEPUTY DIRECTOR
FOR THE CALIFORNIA DEPARTMENT OF
CORRECTIONS AND REHABILITATION.
CITY. CR WOULD LIKE TO THANK THE
OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL
GENERAL FOR THIS REPORT AND
STRONGLY STRONGLY BELIEVES A
MULTI LAYER APPROACH IS THE MOST
EFFECTIVE WAY TO REDUCE
CONTRABAND ACTIVITY. THIS
APPROACH INCLUDES PROVIDING
SUBSTANCE USE DISORDER TREATMENT
. HEIGHTENED PHYSICAL SECURITY,
DISMANTLING DRUG DISTRIBUTION
SYSTEMS, DISRUPTING GANG
ACTIVITY AND CLOSING AVENUES OF
ENTRY FOR CONTRABAND. THIS
ENABLES CDCR TO REDUCE THE
AMOUNT OF CONTRABAND ENTERING
INSTITUTIONS MINIMIZING ITS
AVAILABILITY TO INCARCERATED
INDIVIDUALS. THE DEPARTMENT
CONTINUES TO EVALUATE WAYS TO
IMPROVE CONSISTENT STATEWIDE
APPLICATIONS OF THESE DETECTION
AND INTERVIEW INTERVENTION
SYSTEMS. CDCR ACKNOWLEDGES THE
IMPORTANCE OF MAXIMIZING LIMITED
AVAILABLE STAFFING AND OTHER
RESOURCES AND EFFECTIVE METHOD
OF INTERDICTING DRUGS AND THE
INSTITUTION WILL CONSIDER
PROCESS IMPROVEMENTS OUTLINED IN
THIS REPORT. CONTRABAND
INTERDICTION AND FOCUS ON
CURBING OVERDOSE OVERDOSE DEATHS
AS A RESULT OF ILLEGAL
CONTRABAND IS AND WILL CONTINUE
TO BE A TOP PRIORITY OF THE
DEPARTMENT. UM THAT'S ALL I
HAVE. AND I'M AVAILABLE FOR ANY
QUESTIONS. THANK YOU. I HAVE A
FEW QUESTIONS AND JUST I JUST
WILL START OFF WITH THE COMMENTS
OF JUST BEING UTTERLY SHOCKED AT
THE FINDINGS OF THIS AUDIT AND
I'M SURE MY COLLEAGUES WILL
SHARE THEIR CONCERNS AS WELL
AFTER READING THIS REPORT, AND I
KNOW THAT THE DEPARTMENT IS NOT
ABLE TO LIKELY FULLY RESPOND TO
ALL THE ITEMS OF THE AUDIT, BUT
FRANKLY, WE HAVE HAD DRUGS IN
OUR PARTIAL SYSTEM FOR DECADES
NOW, AND I THINK ONE OF THE MOST
TELLING OPPORTUNITIES THAT WE
HAVE. TO STOP OUR FINGER
POINTING AT THE VISITING
FAMILIES IS THE INCIDENCE OF
COVID. WHERE WE KNOW OUR PRISONS
WERE CLOSED. AND WE ACTUALLY HAD
NEAR IF YOU LOOK AT THE CHART
KIND OF NEAR DISTRIBUTION OF
CONTRABAND DURING THAT TIME. SO
IF IT WASN'T COMING FROM THE
FAMILIES WHERE WAS IT COMING
FROM? WE KNOW WHERE. I WANT TO
JUST MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE
LOOKING SPECIFICALLY AT THE FACT
THAT DURING MARCH OF 2020 AND
APRIL 2021 OVER A YEAR, UM,
DURING THAT TIME THERE COULD
HAVE BEEN SPECIFIC MEASURES
TAKEN. THAT WOULD HAVE MADE IT
CLEAR THAT STAFF AND CONTRACTORS
HAD A SIGNIFICANT ROLE IN
BRINGING DRUGS INTO OUR PRISONS.
SO MY FIRST QUESTION FOR YOU ALL
IS WHAT GIVEN. THE FINDINGS OF
THE GIVEN THE FINDINGS OF THE
AUDIT, UH, ARE GOING TO CAUSE
YOU TO ACTUALLY FOLLOW THE
MULTIPLE LAYERS OF. OF REDUCTION
THAT WE CAN THAT THE INSPECTOR
GENERAL HAS HAS HAS OFFERED US.
SO WE'RE WE'VE GOT SEVEN WORK
GROUPS THAT HAVE BEEN
ESTABLISHED IN THE 19 CORRECTIVE
ACTION PLAN. ITEMS HAVE BEEN
DIVIDED UP AMONG THOSE SEVEN
WORKGROUPS, UH, TO THOROUGHLY
EVALUATE. UM ALL OF THE
RECOMMENDATIONS BY THE INSPECTOR
GENERAL, UM, AND MAKE
RECOMMENDATIONS TO THE
DEPARTMENT AS FAR AS WHAT
DIRECTION TO GO. TO CORRECT ANY
DEFICIENCIES THAT HAVE BEEN
NOTED. INSPECTOR GENERAL IS
PRETTY CLEAR IN LAYING OUT THAT
THERE HAVE BEEN SOME TRIED AND
TRUE METHODOLOGIES, INCLUDING
THE USE OF CANINES, THE USE OF
MAKING SURE THAT WE'RE USING OUR
QUOTE, BODY SEARCHES, VISUAL
INSPECTIONS, ALL OF IT. UH THOSE
ARE TOOLS THAT HAVE YOU HAD
AVAILABLE TO USE. FOR QUITE A
WHILE. NOW WHAT? WHAT ARE YOU
GONNA DO DIFFERENTLY? THEN YOU
HAVE ALREADY BEEN DOING WELL, WE
HAVEN'T WE HAVEN'T FINALIZED OUR
RESPONSE TO THE AUDIT ITSELF. SO
LIKE I SAID, THE 7 TO 7
WORKGROUPS ARE PUTTING TOGETHER
THEIR RECOMMENDATIONS THAT WILL
GO UP THROUGH OUR OUR REVIEW
PROCESS TO MAKE THE FINALIZED
DECISIONS ON WHAT'S GOING TO BE
DONE. AND WHAT WILL YOU BE ABLE
TO SHARE WITH US IN TERMS OF UH,
THE ADDITIONAL PREVENTION
EFFORT. IN TERMS OF CONCRETE
DATA FOR US. RIGHT AS SOON AS AS
SOON AS WE GET THE CORRECTIVE
ACTION PLAN PUT TOGETHER WELL,
THAT WILL BE SUBMITTED TO THE
INSPECTOR GENERAL'S OFFICE. UM
WITH OUR RESPONSE TO THE TO THE
AUDIT ITSELF. I THINK AGAIN IN,
UH IN SUCH AN INCREDIBLY TIGHT
AH! BUDGET YEAR FOR US
RECOGNIZING THAT WE'VE PROVIDED
HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS
TO IMPLEMENT INTEGRATED
SUBSTANCE USE DISORDER,
TREATMENT PROGRAMS AND
INTERVENTION PROGRAMS TO PREVENT
DRUGS COMING INTO OUR SYSTEM. UH
GIVES ME GREAT PAUSE ABOUT THE
EFFECTIVENESS OF THOSE PROGRAMS
. I THINK YOU ARE IN A VERY,
VERY SHORT. TIME SPAN AND TIME
WINDOW IN ORDER TO BE ABLE TO
DEMONSTRATE THAT THOSE THAT
INVESTMENT OF DOLLARS
PARTICULARLY AS IT RELATES TO
STAFF. BEING THE PRIMARY
DELIVERS OF DRUGS INTO OUR
COMMERCIAL SYSTEM IS SOMETHING
THAT I KNOW THAT WE WILL ALL BE
LOOKING AT VERY CAREFULLY IN THE
COMING MONTHS. MR BAKI. YEAH
THANK YOU ALONG THAT LINE.
CLEARLY I SUPPORT THE FACT THAT
WE NEED TO CONFISCATE THOSE
DRUGS, BUT THE FACT THAT THERE
IS NO POLICY AS TO RECORDING
WHAT THEY'RE CONFISCATE. WHAT'S
CONFISCATED IS ALARMING. AND THE
FACT THAT WE DON'T HAVE ANY
RECORD OF WHAT WAS CONFISCATED.
CAUSES THE MIND TO WANDER. I'LL
JUST SAY THAT AND IT ACTUALLY
CAUSES MAYBE EVEN A TEMPTATION.
TO AH, REDISTRIBUTE FOR PROFIT.
I'M NOT ACCUSING ANYBODY OF
THAT, BUT CERTAINLY WHEN YOU
DON'T HAVE A POLICY IN PLACE TO
PREVENT SUCH NEFARIOUS THOUGHTS
, I THINK, UH, WE'RE ASKING FOR
TROUBLE. SO THAT DOES CONCERN ME
AND THE OTHER POINT. I'LL JUST
MAKE REAL QUICKLY. UM THEY.
INVESTIGATION IS INDICATED THAT
CANINES ARE AMONG THE MOST
EFFECTIVE RESOURCES. FOR
DETERRING AND DETECTING THIS
KIND OF DRUG ACTIVITY. OR EVEN
THE USING SOME KIND OF
ELECTRONIC DEVICE. THEY'RE VERY
EFFECTIVE. AND I JUST WONDER WHY
THEY'RE UNDERUTILIZED. WELL
THOSE ARE THOSE ARE TWO OF THE
ISSUES THAT THE WORKGROUPS
THEMSELVES ARE GOING TO BE
LOOKING INTO IS THE USE OF OUR
RESOURCES. THEY BOTH THE CANINES
AS WELL AS THE ELECTRONIC
DEVICES. OKAY SO I GUESS MY
QUESTION WAS UNANSWERED. I JUST
WONDERED WHY WHY ARE THEY UNDER
UTILIZES THERE? IS IT COST? IS
IT AVAILABILITY? IS IT WHAT DO
YOU HAVE ANY IDEA WHY WHY?
THEY'RE UNDERUTILIZED? I
COULDN'T. I COULDN'T PUT MY
FINGER ON EXACTLY WHY THEY'RE
UNDERUTILIZED. THAT'S WHY WE'VE
GOT THE WORKGROUPS PUT TOGETHER.
THEY'RE GOING TO BE DRILLING
DOWN ON EACH ONE OF THESE ISSUES
TO TRY AND MAKE THOSE
DETERMINATIONS AND MAKE
RECOMMENDATIONS BASED ON THAT.
BECAUSE WE WOULD LIKE TO HELP.
THAT'S THAT'S ALL. THE SOLE
REASON IS WE KNOW THAT DRUGS AND
IN THE PENITENTIARY ARE A BAD
THING. I THINK EVERYBODY WOULD
AGREE ON THAT AND SO WE WANT TO
MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE MINIMIZING
THE DISTRIBUTION AND THE
POSSESSION AND THE UTILIZATION
OF THAT THAT KIND OF BECAUSE
IT'S TOXIC TO EVERYBODY. AND SO
I'M HOPING THAT WE CAN DRAFT
SOME. AND IF YOU NEED OUR HELP,
WE LOVE TO HELP ON THAT FRONT,
OF COURSE. BUT AH YEAH, THAT
THAT WAS MY PRIMARY. MY BIGGER
CONCERN IS REALLY THE FACT THAT,
UH WHEN YOU CONFISCATE.
SOMETHING THAT'S NEFARIOUS LIKE
THAT, AND YOU HAVE NO WAY OF
RECORDING IT. WOW THAT'S
ALARMING TO ME, SO I HOPE WE CAN
FIX THAT. THANK YOU. MR KING. MR
HART. THANK YOU, MADAM CHAIR. UM
SO THEN JUST FOLLOWING UP ON
MADAM CHAIRS, UM, I THINK POINTS
UM HOW? I GUESS. HOW DOES THE
DEPARTMENT THINK? THE CONTRABAND
IS GETTING INTO FACILITY. THERE
ARE MANY. THERE ARE MANY
DIFFERENT WAYS. UM OF LATE.
WE'VE HAD THROUGHOUT THE STATE
DRONES. YOU MENTIONED DRONES.
THAT'S A BIG THAT'S A BIG THING
RIGHT NOW. UM AND WE'RE WORKING
ON ON IDEAS TO TRY AND TO CURB
THAT, UM DEPENDING ON LOCATION.
THERE ARE SOME SOME OF OUR MORE
URBAN LOCATIONS WHERE THEY'RE
ACTUALLY PEOPLE THROW THINGS
JUST DIRECTLY OVER THE WALL. I
MEAN, THEY'RE THEY'RE LOOKING
FOR EVERY TIME WE LOOK TO STOP A
METHOD OF INTRODUCTION. UM
THEY'RE TRYING TO CREATE A NEW
METHOD OF INTRODUCTION, SO IT'S
A CONTINUOUS CONTINUOUS PROCESS
TO TRY AND PREVENT THE
INTRODUCTIONS. I GUESS MY
CONCERNS AND YOUR RESPONSE TO
WHAT I THOUGHT THE INSPECTOR
GERMANY, WHICH IS A VERY
THOROUGH REPORT WAS SUBSTANCE
ABUSE TREATMENT AND THEN GANGS
CRACKING DOWN AND I GUESS, UM IT
DIDN'T I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND
EXACTLY HOW UM. YOU KNOW WHAT?
WHY? I TOTALLY SUPPORT AGAIN.
GET CRACKING DOWN ON GANGS AND
SUBSTITUTE SUBSTANCE ABUSE
TREATMENT. UM IT SEEMED TO BE
SORT OF DISCONNECTED FROM HOW
THE DIFFERENT CONTRABAND WAS
GETTING INTO THE FACILITY, AND
IT DIDN'T SEEM TO YOU DIDN'T
SEEM TO ADDRESS ANY OF THE
ITEMS. THE INSPECTOR GENERAL
LISTED OF CONCERN. THE. THE
SUBSTANCE USE DISORDER
TREATMENT. UM IS GOING TO BE
ATTACHED TO THE DEMAND ONES
DISAGREEING WITH THAT. BUT BUT
THAT BUT IF YOU LOOK AT THE
RECOMMENDATIONS THE YOU KNOW THE
I G DIDN'T SAY OH THE BIG THING
IS, WE NEED MORE TREATMENT,
WHICH I THINK WE SHOULD GIVE
MORE TREATMENT. I'M NOT ARGUING
WITH YOU ON THAT. BUT HE DIDN'T
ADDRESS ANY OF THE ITEMS THAT
THE OFFICE RAISED. WELL, THE
DEPARTMENT IS STILL WORKING ON
THE RESPONSE, UM TO THE AUDIT
ITSELF, SO WE DON'T HAVE A FULL
RESPONSE TO THE AUDIT, AND WE'VE
GOT THE TEAM STILL WORKING ON
THAT PUTTING, PUTTING THAT
RESPONSE TOGETHER SO IT WILL BE
DONE. UM, I BELIEVE IT'S Dð. I
THINK IT'S DOING A COUPLE OF
WEEKS. I DON'T HAVE THAT IN
FRONT OF ME RIGHT HERE. MHM VÚI
G REQUEST CORRECTIVE ACTION
PLANS IN EACH REPORT WE ISSUE ON
THE 60 DAY MARK ON THE SIX MONTH
MARK AND THEN AT THE ONE YEAR
MARK SO 60 DAYS WOULD BE WHAT
MARCH? MARCH, 11TH. FIVE DAYS
FROM NOW. SO YOU CAN'T GIVE US
ANY I DON'T HAVE. I DON'T HAVE
FEEDBACK FROM THE FROM THE
WORKGROUPS. THEN WHY ARE YOU
HERE? WHY ISN'T SOMEBODY HERE
WHO CAN WELL, IT'S STILL A WORK
IN PROGRESS. CAN'T BE THAT MUCH
TO DO IN FIVE DAYS. NOT JUST
UNDERSTAND WHY THE DEPARTMENT
WAS SENT. I APPRECIATE YOUR
COMMENTS. DON'T GET ME WRONG.
EXCUSE EXCUSE MY CONCERN, BUT
YOU KNOW, THIS IS A COMMITTEE.
THE INSPECTOR GENERAL HERSELF IS
HERE. TO PRESENT THE REPORT OF
HER OFFICE. YOUR YOUR ROLE WAS
TO PRESENT WHAT IS THE
DEPARTMENT GOING TO DO ABOUT IT?
WELL I DON'T EXPECT THE
SOLUTIONS TO BE FORMULATED ON
THE 11TH. I BELIEVE THE 60 DAY
REPORT IS AN UPDATE ON WHERE WE
ARE WITH. WITH MAKING THE
CORRECTIONS BUT WOULDN'T SHANTI
IN. SOME OF THESE SOLUTIONS
ALREADY HAVE BEEN IN PROGRESS,
BECAUSE AGAIN, IT'S NOT. IT'S
CONTRABAND IN NEW ISSUE IN THE
DEPARTMENT. NO, NO. SO. IS THERE
NO PLAN ON THIS ISSUE IN THE
DEPARTMENT. I'M SURE THERE IS.
WHERE IS IT? I GUESS. CAN ANYONE
SPEAK TO IT? YOU KNOW, WE HAVE
OTHER PEOPLE IN THE DEPARTMENT.
ANYBODY WANT TO COME AND SPEAK
TO IT? RELATED SPECIFICALLY TO
THE AUDIT ITSELF. THE WORK
GROUPS ARE GOING TO MAKE THEIR
RECOMMENDATIONS. SO THE FIRST
STEP IN IN TAKING, TAKING
CORRECTIVE ACTION ON THE AUDIT
ITSELF IS PUTTING TOGETHER THE
WORKGROUPS GETTING THOSE SUBJECT
MATTER. EXPERTS TOGETHER. THAT'S
GREAT, RIGHT? BUT SO NO ONE HAS
EVER WORKED ON THIS ISSUE OF
CANINES. AS FAR AS THE USE OF
CANINES IN GENERAL. YES. WHAT'S
THE POLICY AROUND CANINE
SEARCHES? IN THE DEPARTMENT. ONE
OF THE EU'S WHEN THEY'RE NOT
USED. CURRENTLY THEY'RE USED FOR
DURING DOING AREA SEARCHES AND
AIR SCANS OF INMATES. OKAY AND
IS THERE A REASON WHY THAT
HASN'T BEEN? EXPANDED. I
COULDN'T. I COULDN'T ANSWER A
REASON WHY PRISON VISITS. I'VE
NEVER BEEN SEARCH BY CANINE.
THAT WAS ONE OF THE MAIN EXCUSES
SUBJECT OR ALLUDED TO THIS. OUR
CHEERLEADER TO THIS THAT ONE OF
THE MAIN ACCUSATIONS WAS IT'S
FAMILY MEMBERS, BRINGING IN
CONTRIBUTING. SO FAMILY MEMBERS
ARE BRINGING IN CONTRABAND.
WOULDN'T EVERY FAMILY MEMBER
COMING IN BE SNIFFED BACK IN
NINE? WELL, THOSE THOSE AUDIT
FINDINGS. LIKE I SAID, THAT'S
PART OF WHAT THE WORK GROUP IS
GOING TO MAKE A RECOMMENDATION
HAS BEEN AN ACCUSATION AS LONG
AS I'VE BEEN AROUND THIS
COMMITTEE YES. YOU'VE MENTIONED
THESE WORKGROUPS. WHAT'S THE
TIMING FOR THE COMPLETION OF THE
WORKGROUPS EFFORTS AND WHAT WORK
PRODUCT IS GOING TO BE COMING
FROM THESE WORKGROUPS. I DON'T
HAVE. I DON'T HAVE A TIMELINE
FOR WHEN THEY WILL BE COMPLETED
WITH THEIR WITH THEIR
RECOMMENDATIONS. UM THE 60 DAY
IS WE'RE DOING AN UPDATE ON
WHERE WE ARE ON THE STATUS. UM
FOR DOING CORRECTIVE ACTION. UM
AND THEN EACH STEP ALONG THE WAY
WE'RE PROVIDING, UPDATES, SOME
UPDATES MAY BE THINGS THAT WE
CAN, UM ADOPT IMMEDIATELY. SOME
MAYBE LONGER OUT, IT MAY BE
REQUIRED CHANGES. UH, TO POLICY.
UM PUTTING TOGETHER UM TRAINING
TRAINING CURRICULUMS, THAT KIND
OF THING, SO SOME MAYBE A LITTLE
BIT FURTHER OUT. EVERYTHING IS
NOT GOING TO BE ON THE SAME
TIMELINE WITH THOSE UPDATES. UH
THOSE RESPONSES ARE ARE GIVING
UPDATES OF WHERE WE ARE. AND
RIGHT NOW WE'VE GOT THE GROUPS
TOGETHER. THEY'RE TAKING A LOOK
AT THE ISSUES THAT WERE
IDENTIFIED IN THE AUDIT, AND
THEY'RE GOING TO MAKE
RECOMMENDATIONS BASED ON THAT. I
COULDN'T GIVE YOU A TIMELINE OF
WIND SPECIFIC RECOMMENDATIONS
ARE GOING TO COME OUT. I COME
OUT OF THE NONPROFIT SECTOR
WHERE WE HAVE TO ACCOUNT FOR
EVERY SINGLE DOLLAR THAT WE THAT
WE SPEND AND WHEN WE PULL
TOGETHER WORKGROUPS, WE
TYPICALLY HAVE A TIMELINE WHERE
THE WORKGROUP STARTS. IT'S CLEAR
ABOUT WHAT THE OBJECTIVES ARE
THAT WORKGROUP WHAT WORK PRODUCT
IS GOING TO BE COMING OUT OF
THAT WORKGROUP AND WHEN THAT
WORK GROUP IS GOING TO END SO
THAT I HAVE A SENSE AND HAVE THE
ABILITY TO REPORT TO THE PEOPLE.
WHO HOLD ME ACCOUNTABLE AROUND.
WHEN I'M GOING TO GET THE
INFORMATION AROUND CORRECTIVE
ACTION OR WHATEVER ACTION I'M
GOING TO BE TAKEN FROM THAT, SO
I WOULD ENCOURAGE YOU TO BE ABLE
TO GO BACK AND PERHAPS GET A
CLEAR ANSWER ABOUT THE TIMELINE
ASSOCIATED WITH THESE WORKGROUPS
. UH AND WE CLEARLY HAVE
STATUTORILY SOME, UH, FINDINGS
THAT NEED TO BE DELIVERED WITHIN
WITHIN THE TIME FRAME THAT THE
INSPECTOR GENERAL HAS LAID OUT.
UH HUH. BUT AGAIN, IT'S MILLIONS
OF DOLLARS. CLEARLY UH WE'VE HAD
A VERY UNUSUAL FLASHPOINT AN
OPPORTUNITY TO BE ABLE TO REALLY
UNDERSTAND WHAT THE NATURE OF
CONTRABAND DISTRIBUTION IS AND,
UH AND IT'S A GIFT TO US, AND I
DON'T REALLY HEAR FROM YOU, UH,
THE RESPONSE THAT YOU'VE
ACTUALLY TAKING UP THAT
OPPORTUNITY TO PROVIDE SOME
CLARITY FOR US AS WE AGAIN
CONTINUE TO INVEST MILLIONS AND
MILLIONS OF DOLLARS JUST ON THE
PREVENTION SIDE ALONG YOU HAVE
CANINES. YOU'RE NOT USING THEM.
YOU HAVE ELECTRONIC DEVICES TO
BE ABLE TO UNDERSTAND YOU'RE NOT
USING THEM. THIS IS THE
INFORMATION THAT WE'VE GOTTEN
FROM THE INSPECTOR GENERAL, AND
THAT'S FOR ME. WHEN LITERALLY
PEOPLE ARE DYING OF FENTANYL
OVERDOSES AND OTHER THINGS IN
OUR PRISON SYSTEM. AND WE KNOW
THAT OVER 60% OF PEOPLE IN THE
PRISON POPULATION ARE ADDICTED.
OR SUB SUFFER, SOME SUFFER FROM
SUBSTANCE ABUSE. IT'S AN
UNACCEPTABLE POSITION. IT'S
INHUMANE. UH, I'M JUST GONNA.
I'VE JUST HAD. I MEAN, IF THE
DEPARTMENT COULD PLEASE SEND
SOMEONE WHO COULD ANSWER THESE
QUESTIONS. BECAUSE AGAIN THIS
THIS IS NOT. THIS IS NOT A NEW
ISSUE. IT'S AN ONGOING ISSUE. I
UNDERSTAND THAT YOU DON'T HAVE
THAT ABILITY, BUT WE REALLY NEED
TO HAVE SOMEONE WHO HAD THAT
ABILITY TO BE AT THESE HEARINGS.
OTHERWISE, WE HAVE TO OTHERWISE,
IT BECOMES A WASTE OF TIME FOR
THIS SUBCOMMITTEE, AND WE HAVE
TO HEAR THIS ISSUE AGAIN.
BECAUSE WE HAVEN'T GOT ANY ANY
ANSWERS. THANK YOU. THESE ARE
ALL ONGOING ISSUES. THE FACT
THAT THERE'S NO POLICY ON YOU
KNOW, UM. A DEADLY COMPREHENSIVE
SEARCH PROCESS FOR ENTRANCES.
LACK OF DOCUMENTATION AROUND
SALES SEARCHES. THESE ARE ALL TO
ME FAIRLY. COMMON
ADMINISTRATIVE. POLICIES THAT
YOU WOULD ASSUME WOULD BE IN
PLACE. AND DOESN'T SEEM LIKE
YOU'RE ABLE TO ADDRESS ANY OF
THEM, SO I THINK IT WOULD BE
GOOD TO HAVE SOMEBODY. WHO
CARES? THANK YOU. MR HART AND
THEN MR JOHN SAWYER. I
APPRECIATE THE INSPECTOR GENERAL
BEING HERE PERSONALLY TO DELIVER
THESE AUDIT FINDINGS AND THEY
ARE JUST JAW DROPPING. I DON'T
EVEN KNOW HOW TO CHARACTERIZE
THIS. AND, UM. I APPRECIATE THE
DEPARTMENT HAS A WORK PLAN AND
ACTION PLAN CORRECTIVE ACTION
PLAN UNDERWAY BUT CAN YOU TELL
US ABOUT ANYTHING THAT
DEPARTMENT HAS DONE TO ADDRESS
THESE 19 FINDINGS? BEFORE THE.
THE RESULTS OF THE CORRECTIVE
ACTION PLAN OR PRODUCED DON'T
HAVE. I DON'T HAVE THE WORK
PRODUCT FROM THE WORKGROUPS, YET
THEY'RE STILL WORKING ON THE
WORK PRODUCTS WITH THE WORKING
GROUP'S. I'M TALKING ABOUT
GETTING THIS REPORT READING IT
AND SAYING WE NEED TO DO
SOMETHING TODAY. DIFFERENT. HAS
THERE BEEN ANYTHING DONE? THE
WORK PROCESSES GOING THROUGH THE
CORRECTIVE ACTION PLAN, AND
THAT'S THE WORK GROUPS ARE DOING
THAT RIGHT, AND THAT WOULD BE
THE LONG TERM PLAN. SO YOU WANT
TO BE THOUGHTFUL AND YOU WANT TO
LOOK AHEAD, BUT THERE'S GOT TO
BE SOMETHING. THAT YOU WOULD SAY
WE'VE GOT TO DO THIS TODAY. TO
THIS POINT. WHAT WE'VE DONE IS
PUT THE WORK GROUPS TOGETHER AND
WORKING THAT CORRECTIVE ACTION
PLAN PROCESS. THANK YOU. MR JOHN
SAWYER. SO, UM I WANT TO THANK
CDCR AGAIN. UM. FOR FINDING AN
ISSUE THAT KIND OF UNITED
REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS UM. SO
ACTING DIRECTOR DEPUTY DIRECTOR
FACILITIES OPERATION DIVISION OF
ADULT INSTITUTIONS. THAT'S
INCORRECT. SO THAT'S NOT YOU.
ACTING DIRECTOR OF THE CDC, RS
THE TITLE. WHAT IS YOUR? WHAT IS
YOUR TITLE, THEN ACTING DEPUTY
DIRECTOR, DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF
OPERATIONS AND HOW LONG HAVE YOU
HAD THAT POSITION? ABOUT A
MONTH. OKAY, SO I'M. AS THE
RESIDENT HISTORIAN. I'LL GIVE
YOU SOME BACKGROUNDS. SO YOU AND
I'VE BEEN IN YOUR POSITION WHERE
? UM MY EMPLOYERS, MY SUPERIORS
. MY SUPERVISOR SENT ME TO THE
TO THE TABLE IN FRONT OF ELECTED
OFFICIALS. BUT NOT ENOUGH
INFORMATION. AND TOLD ME THIS IS
THE WAY YOU SAY IT. AND HAVE
ELECTED OFFICIALS NOT REALLY
HAPPY WITH THE SO I I'M JUST
TELLING YOU BEEN THERE I FEEL
FOR YOU. UM SO THIS PROBLEM.
CAME UP REALLY IN EARNEST DURING
COVID. AND THE PREVIOUS, UH, CD
HDR SECRETARY WHEN WE TALKED
ABOUT THE FACT THAT UM DRUG USE
WENT UP OR DRUG USE WAS
CONSISTENT. EVEN THOUGH WE
STOPPED. FAMILIES AND FRIENDS
FROM COMING TO THE PRISON
BECAUSE OF COVID. WE REDUCED IT.
AND I SAID, SO. DO YOU THINK
THIS CABINET THE REASON THERE IS
IT? INCREASES BECAUSE. OF STAFF
, WHICH HE EMPHATICALLY SAID NO.
HE SAID IT WAS DRONES. HE SAID.
IT WAS PEOPLE THROWING THINGS
OVER THE RAW. HE SAID. IT WAS A
BREAD TRUCK, EVEN THOUGH I FOUND
OUT LATER. THE INMATES MAKE
THEIR OWN BREAD, BUT I DON'T
KNOW WHERE THESE MYSTERIOUS
BREAD TRUCKS WERE SNEAKING INTO
THE PRISON. AND UH, ANY BLAMES
OUR FRIENDS AND FAMILY, EVEN
THOUGH FRIENDS AND FAMILY PLAN
WASN'T HAPPENING AT THAT TIME.
AND WHEN I MENTIONED STAFF, HE
WAS EMPHATICALLY KEPT SAYING NO.
SO I ASKED ABOUT THE CANINES,
AND AT THAT TIME THERE WAS A
PROBLEM WITH THE CANINES. UM
EITHER THEY COULD SMELL THE
DRUGS OR THEY MISSED WHATEVER IT
DIDN'T WORK OUT, AND I THINK
THAT WAS PART OF WHY THEY WERE
GOING TO IMPROVE THE PROGRAM. OR
DISCONTINUE THE PROGRAM. LOOKS
LIKE THEY DISCONTINUED TO
PROGRAM INSTEAD OF IMPROVING IT
, UM, BECAUSE THAT'S INSPECTOR
GENERAL SAYS CANINES HAVE BEEN
SHOWN TO BE VERY, VERY GOOD AT
THAT. SO I DON'T KNOW SOUTH. YOU
MAY NOT KNOW THIS BUT ONE OF THE
THINGS IF YOU COULD FIND OUT FOR
US AND FIND OUT QUICKLY IS THAT
REALLY DO JUSTIFICATION FOR THE
FAILURE TO CONTINUE THE PROGRAM
BECAUSE I THINK IT WAS HIGHLY
EFFECTIVE, ESPECIALLY IN THE
FACE OF THE INFORMATION THAT WE
JUST RECEIVED THAT IT WAS A
SUCCESS. AND SO THAT WOULD BE
PART OF IT THAT BACK IN 2020. WE
WERE LOOKING AT DOING IN EARNEST
. THE ONLY OTHER THING I WOULD
CAVEAT THERE WAS A CONCERN ABOUT
USING THE CANINES WHEN FAMILIES
CAME IN. COULD IT BE EXTREMELY
CONTROVERSIAL IN THAT IT WOULD
MAYBE INHIBIT FAMILY MEMBERS
FROM COMING BECAUSE THEY WOULD
HAVE THESE BIG GERMAN SHEPHERDS
AND MASSIVE, YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE
TO GO THROUGH THAT. AND SO WE
WERE TRYING TO FIGURE THROUGH
THAT. Tð KIND OF WANT TO KNOW
HOW OFTEN OR STAFF AND THEIR
BELONGINGS SEARCH WHEN IT
ENTERED INTO THE FACILITY.
REASON ASKED. THAT IS BECAUSE AT
THAT SAME TIME I TRIED TO GET
FUNDING WITH THIS COMMITTEE TO
PUT IN UM DEVICES AND AT THE AT
THE TERMINAL TO CHECK STAFF. SO
THAT WE CAN MAKE SURE CONTRABAND
IN COMING THROUGH STAFF. TWO
METAL DETECTORS AND OTHER UM
INSTRUMENTS. UM WE WERE TOLD IT
WAS TOO COSTLY WERE TOLD IT WAS
TOO CUMBERSOME TO PUT IN ALL THE
AND BASICALLY IT WAS PUSHED BACK
AND EVENTUALLY DIED FOR LACK OF
A SECOND. AND MAINLY FROM THE
DEPARTMENT, FINDING REAL HARD
NOT TO DO IT. AND SO I KNOW WHAT
THAT'S LIKE. WHEN THE DEPARTMENT
DOESN'T WANT TO DO ANYTHING. UM
THEY DRAGGED THEIR FEET AND
STALL STALL STALL. SO, UM. MAYBE
I CAN GO TO A DIFFERENT WAY. IF
I CAN FIND OUT IF STAFF IS EVEN
SEARCHED AT ALL. AND HOW OFTEN
THEIR SEARCH TO MAKE SURE
THEY'RE NOT BRINGING IN
CONTRABAND. INTO THE PRISONS,
AND I DON'T KNOW IF YOU KNOW
THAT ANSWER NOW. OR IF YOU GET
THAT ANSWER FOR THIS COMMITTEE,
BECAUSE THAT WILL HELP US ALSO,
AS WE MOVE FORWARD ABOUT WHAT WE
NEED TO DO TO STOP THE FLOW OF
DRUGS GOING INTO THE PRISONS.
BASED ON CURRENT POLICY,
EVERYONE ENTERING THE SECURE
PERIMETER IS SUPPOSED TO BE
THEIR THEIR BELONGINGS SUPPOSED
TO BE SEARCHED. SO YOU'RE
ABSOLUTELY POSITIVE, EVERYONE.
IS SEARCH FOR EVERYONE'S
SUPPOSED TO BE SEARCHED ON
POLICY. EVERYONE ENTERING IS
SUPPOSED TO BE SEARCHED.
INSPECTOR GENERAL. YOU ALLUDED
TO THIS A BIT IN YOUR REPORT? DO
YOU HAVE A RESPONSE FOR MR JONES
LAWYER ABOUT THIS? ALTHOUGH THE
POLICY STATES THAT EVERY PERSON
ENTERING THE PRISON AND SHE'S A
SECRET PERIMETER MUST BE
SEARCHED, UM THEIR BELONGINGS IN
PRACTICE THAT DOES NOT HAPPEN IT
OUR OBSERVATIONS FOR THE THREE
PRISONS THAT WE WENT TO, UM DO
OUR FIELDWORK WE DOCUMENTED
SEARCHES. UM AND WE INCLUDED
DIFFERENT SHIFTS DIFFERENT TIMES
OF DAY. WE WENT OUT THERE TO
OBSERVE. UM WHAT THE OFFICER WHO
WAS LETTING PEOPLE INTO THE
PRISON HOW THEY WERE CONDUCTING
THESE SEARCHES. WE FOUND THAT
THESE SEARCHES WERE VERY
CURSORY. UM IN SOME INSTANCES,
THEY DIDN'T EVEN LOOK IN THE
BAGS OR PARCELS OF THE PEOPLE
ENTERING THE PRISON. UM STAFF
AND CONTRACTORS, AND WE ALSO
NOTED THAT WHEN THEY DID LOOK
INSIDE OF A OF A BAG OR A
PARCEL, IT WAS 1 TO 2 SECONDS.
IT WAS VERY SHORT. SO ACTING.
DEPUTY DIRECTOR. I THINK THAT
MIGHT BE SOMETHING YOU WANT TO
LOOK INTO. THERE'S A THING OF
POLICY AND IMPLEMENTATION. IT
SOUNDS LIKE THERE MAY BE SOME
PROBLEMS WITH IMPLEMENTATION AND
I WOULD SERIOUSLY I'LL TELL YOU
THE REALLY LOOK INTO THAT
BECAUSE THAT MAY BE A SERIOUS A
SERIOUS LAPSE. AND SECURITY THAT
YOU MAY BE HAVING AT YOUR
FACILITIES. OKAY? I DON'T KNOW
THAT WE HAVE ANY ADDITIONAL
QUESTIONS THAT WE WOULD YIELD AN
ACCEPTABLE RESPONSE AT THIS TIME
, SO I'M JUST GOING TO ASK THAT
THE DEPARTMENT MAKE SURE TO LIST
OUT OF THE SPECIFIC MEASURES
THAT WILL IMPLEMENT AFTER THE 90
DAY PERIOD. AND TO MAKE SURE TO
PLEASE SEND THOSE TO THE
SUBCOMMITTEE IN WRITTEN RESPONSE
AT THIS TIME. YEAH EXACTLY. I
THINK YOU CAN CLEARLY HEAR FROM
US ALL THAT WE ARE HOPING FOR
BETTER ANSWERS THAN WE'VE BEEN
ABLE TO RECEIVE AT THIS POINT
POINT. THANK YOU, INSPECTOR
GENERAL. THANK YOU, DEPUTY
DIRECTOR. THANK YOU. WE'LL MOVE
ON NOW TO ISSUE NUMBER THREE
STAFF MISCONDUCT INVESTIGATION
EXPANSION.
THANK YOU. GO AHEAD AND PLEASE
START WITH YOUR COMMENTS. GOOD
AFTERNOON, MADAM CHAIR AND
MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE. MY
NAME IS AMY MILLER. AND I'M THE
DIRECTOR FOR THE FOR THE TWO
SORRY, DIRECTOR FOR THE
CALIFORNIA DEPARTMENT OF
CORRECTIONS AND REHABILITATIONS
DIVISION OF CORRECTIONAL POLICY
RESEARCH AND INTERNAL OVERSIGHT.
MY DIVISION IS RESPONSIBLE FOR
MANY FACETS OF INTERNAL
OVERSIGHT WITHIN CDCR, INCLUDING
INVESTIGATIONS INTO ALLEGATIONS
OF STAFF MISCONDUCT. IN 2020,
THE CALIFORNIA DEPARTMENT OF
CORRECTIONS AND REHABILITATION
BEGAN IMPLEMENTING CHANGES
IMPACTING HOW ALLEGATIONS OF
STAFF MISCONDUCT TOWARD
INCARCERATED PERSONS IN PAROLEES
WERE ADDRESSED. IT WAS IN
JANUARY OF 2020 THAT THE
DEPARTMENT ACTIVATED THE
ALLEGATION. INQUIRY MANAGEMENT
SECTION OFTEN REFERRED TO AS
AIMS. THIS UNIT'S ROLE WAS TO
REVIEW ALLEGATIONS OF STAFF
MISCONDUCT SUBMITTED BY
INCARCERATED PERSONS WHEN THE
WARDEN BELIEVED THE MISCONDUCT
OF RESULT IN ADVERSE ACTION.
AMES WAS REQUIRED TO CONDUCT
PRELIMINARY INQUIRY TASKS TO
DETERMINE IF THERE WAS EVIDENCE
TO SUPPORT THE ALLEGATION IF
EVIDENCE WAS DISCOVERED THE
SUPPORT TO SUPPORT THE
ALLEGATION. THE CASE WAS CLOSED
BY AIMS AND REFERRED TO THE
OFFICE OF INTERNAL AFFAIRS FOR A
FULL INVESTIGATION. ALTHOUGH THE
AIMS PROCESS WAS AN IMPROVEMENT
, THERE REMAINED CONCERN THAT
NOT ALL ALLEGATIONS OF STAFF
MISCONDUCT WERE BEING IDENTIFIED
OR ADDRESSED APPROPRIATELY. AS A
RESULT OF THESE CONCERNS, THE
CALIFORNIA DEPARTMENT OF
CORRECTIONS AND REHABILITATION
HAS IMPLEMENTED ADDITIONAL
CHANGES THAT I WOULD LIKE TO
HIGHLIGHT FOR YOU NOW. IN
JANUARY, 2022. THE DEPARTMENT
ACTIVATED A UNIT DEDICATED TO
THE SCREENING OF GRIEVANCES AND
COMPLAINTS. SINCE JANUARY. 2022
THE CENTRALIZED SCREENING TEAM
HAS REVIEWED ALL GRIEVANCES
SUBMITTED BY INCARCERATED
PERSONS IN PAROLEES AND HAS
ROUTED ALL CLAIMS INCLUDED IN
THESE GRIEVANCES TO THE
APPROPRIATE AREA FOR RESPONSE.
WHEN THE CENTRALIZED SCREENING
TEAM IDENTIFIES AN ALLEGATION OF
STAFF MISCONDUCT INCLUDED IN THE
GRIEVANCE THEY ARE RESPONSIBLE
FOR DETERMINING IF THAT
COMPLAINT WILL BE ROUTED TO THE
OFFICE OF INTERNAL AFFAIRS OR IF
THAT COMPLAINT WILL BE RETURNED
TO THE WARDEN OR THE PAROLE
ADMINISTRATOR FOR AN INQUIRY AT
THE LOCAL LEVEL. TO IMPROVE
CONSISTENCY IN THE SCREENING
PROCESS AND ENSURE THE MOST
SERIOUS AND COMPLEX ALLEGATIONS
OF STAFF MISCONDUCT ARE ROUTED
TO THE OFFICE OF INTERNAL
AFFAIRS. THE DEPARTMENT CREATED
THE ALLEGATION DECISION INDEX,
WHICH IS USED BY THE CENTRALIZED
SCREENING TEAM. THE ALLEGATION.
DECISION INDEX SPECIFIES WHAT
TYPES OF ALLEGATIONS ARE
REQUIRED TO GO TO THE OFFICE OF
INTERNAL AFFAIRS AND INCLUDES
ALLEGATIONS SUCH AS UNNECESSARY
AND EXCESSIVE USE OF FORCE BY
STAFF. STAFF ON INMATE SEXUAL
MISCONDUCT AND STAFF INVOLVEMENT
IN A CODE OF SILENCE. ALSO
IMPLEMENTED IN JANUARY OF 2022
ALL ALLEGATIONS OF UNNECESSARY
OR EXCESSIVE USE OF FORCE BY
STAFF AND ALL ALLEGATIONS OF
STAFF. SEXUAL MISCONDUCT TOWARDS
INMATES OR PAROLEES IS ALWAYS
ROUTED TO THE OFFICE OF INTERNAL
AFFAIRS. IN MAY OF 2020 TO THE
OFFICE OF INTERNAL AFFAIRS BEGAN
TO TRANSITION CASES FROM THE
ALLEGATION IN COREY MANAGEMENT
SECTION TO THE ALLEGATION
INVESTIGATION UNITS. THIS CHANGE
ENDED THE NEED FOR A PRELIMINARY
INQUIRY AND ENSURE THAT ANY
ALLEGATION OF STAFF MISCONDUCT
REFERRED TO THE OFFICE OF
INTERNAL AFFAIRS VIA THIS
PROCESS WOULD RECEIVE AN
INVESTIGATION. THIS TRANSITION
FROM INQUIRIES TO INVESTIGATIONS
WAS COMPLETED IN MARCH OF THE
SHARE. IN SEPTEMBER. 2022 THE
STAFF MISCONDUCT PROCESS WAS
FURTHER EXPANDED AT SIX PRISONS
TO INCLUDE ALLEGATIONS OF STAFF
MISCONDUCT RECEIVED OUTSIDE OF
THE GRIEVANCE PROCESS. THIS
INCLUDES ALLEGATIONS RECEIVED
VIA HEALTHCARE GRIEVANCES AND
ALLEGATIONS REPORTED BY PERSONS
OTHER THAN INCARCERATED PERSONS.
THIS EXPANSION IS BEING
IMPLEMENTED IN PHASES FOR THE
REMAINING PRISONS AND PAROLE
REGIONS WITH STATEWIDE
IMPLEMENTATION EXPECTED TO BE
COMPLETED BY NOVEMBER 30TH OF
THIS YEAR. AND FINALLY IN
JANUARY OF 2023 ALL ALLEGATION,
INQUIRY REPORTS COMPLETED BY
INSTITUTION AND PAROLE STAFF ARE
REQUIRED TO BE SUBMITTED TO THE
OFFICE OF INTERNAL AFFAIRS FOR
REVIEW AND APPROVAL. THIS REVIEW
PROCESS HAS BEEN PUT INTO PLACE
TO ENSURE THAT THE INQUIRIES
CONDUCTED BY LOCAL STAFF ARE
COMPLETE. THOROUGH AND UNBIASED
AND THAT THEY INCLUDE THE
INFORMATION NEEDED BY A WARDEN
OR A PAROLE ADMINISTRATOR TO
MAKE A DECISION ABOUT THE
ALLEGATIONS OF STAFF MISCONDUCT.
CALIFORNIA DEPARTMENT OF
CORRECTIONS AND REHABILITATION
IS COMMITTED TO A PROACTIVE
APPROACH TO ADDRESSING
ALLEGATIONS OF STAFF MISCONDUCT.
WE BELIEVE THAT CHANGES MADE SO
FAR ALIGN WITH OUR DEPARTMENT
VALUES TO PROVIDE FOR HER
REHABILITATIVE ENVIRONMENT FOR
THE MEN AND WOMEN IN OUR CARE.
TO SERVE AND BE RESPONSIBLE TO
THE PUBLIC. AND TO MAINTAIN A
PROFESSIONAL WORKFORCE. WE
CONTINUE TO REFINE OUR INTERNAL
AFFAIRS PROCESS TO IMPROVE
ACCOUNTABILITY, EFFICIENCY AND
TRANSPARENCY AND TO ENSURE
APPROPRIATE CORRECTIVE OR
DISCIPLINARY ACTION IS TAKEN
WHEN WARRANTED. TO THAT END CDCR
S REQUESTING FUNDING AND A MIX
OF LIMITED TERM AND ONGOING
POSITIONS THAT REFLECTS
ADJUSTMENTS TO THE STAFF
MISCONDUCT PROCESS, INCLUDING
ALLEGATIONS, SCREENING REFERRAL
AND TRACKING, AS WELL AS THE
ASSOCIATED INVESTIGATIVE AND
DISCIPLINARY PROCESSES. I AM
HERE TODAY, ALONG WITH DEPUTY
DIRECTOR JARED LOZANO FROM THE
DIVISION OF ADULT INSTITUTIONS
TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS YOU MAY
HAVE REGARDING THE PROCESS OR
OUR BUDGET CHANGE PROPOSAL.
THANK YOU. THANK YOU NEXT
SPEAKER. THANK YOU. GOOD
AFTERNOON AGAIN. MADAM CHAIR
COMMITTEE MEMBERS. EMMERICH SING
INSPECTOR GENERAL. THANK YOU FOR
THE OPPORTUNITY TODAY TO PROVIDE
AN UPDATE ON ORGS MONITORING OF
CDCR S PROCESS OF REVIEWING AND
INVESTIGATING STAFF MISCONDUCT
ALLEGATIONS. ALTHOUGH WE ARE
STILL ACTIVELY RECRUITING TO
FILL OUR POSITIONS TO MEET OUR
MONITORING GOALS. IN THE PAST
YEAR, WE HAVE BEGUN MONITORING
THE DEPARTMENT'S INITIAL
SCREENING OF GRIEVANCES IT
RECEIVES THE LOCAL INQUIRIES
PERFORMED INTO GRIEVANCES THAT
ARE RETURNED TO PRISONS AND THE
INVESTIGATIONS INTO GRIEVANCES
THAT ARE REFERRED TO THE
ALLEGATIONS INVESTIGATION UNIT
OF THE OFFICE OF INTERNAL
AFFAIRS. IN THE CASES WE
MONITORED. WE HAVE PROVIDED REAL
TIME RECOMMENDATIONS AS WE DEEM
APPROPRIATE. FOR EXAMPLE, WE
HAVE RECOMMENDED THAT RELEVANT
WITNESSES INTERVIEWED AND THE
INVESTIGATORS ASK ADDITIONAL
QUESTIONS DURING INTERVIEWS TO
EXPLORE ISSUES IN GREATER DETAIL
. WE HAVE RECOMMENDED PARTICULAR
EVIDENCE BE SECURED AS
NECESSARY. FOR A COMPLETE
INVESTIGATION, AND WE HAVE ALSO
RECOMMENDED ADDING ALLEGATIONS
THAT WERE DISCOVERED DURING THE
INVESTIGATION. WE HAVE ALSO MADE
RECOMMENDATIONS FOR CDCR TO
IMPROVE ITS STATEWIDE PROCESSES.
FOR EXAMPLE, WE RECOMMENDED THAT
CDCR SET UP A PROCESS TO CHECK
FOR CONFLICTS OF INTEREST IN
LOCAL INQUIRY CASES PERFORMED BY
PRISON STAFF. THE DEPARTMENT HAS
A CONFLICT CHECK PROCESS FOR
INVESTIGATIONS PERFORMED BY THE
OFFICE OF INTERNAL AFFAIRS
STAFF. IN WHERE THE SPECIAL
AGENT FILLS OUT A CONFLICT OF
INTEREST FORM PRIOR TO BEGINNING
INVESTIGATION, WHICH IS SIGNED
BY THEIR SUPERVISOR AND
IDENTIFIES ANY POTENTIAL
CONFLICTS OF INTEREST ISSUES.
HOWEVER THERE WAS NO SUCH
PROCEDURE IN PLACE FOR THE
DEPARTMENT TO DETERMINE OR
CONFIRM WHETHER A LOCALLY
DESIGNATED INVESTIGATOR HAS A
CONFLICT OF INTEREST IN
CONDUCTING A LOCAL INQUIRY.
CREATION OF A CONFLICT CHECK
PROCESS FOR LOCAL INCREASE IS
CRITICAL BECAUSE AS WE POINTED
OUT IN OUR 2019 REPORT IN ON
SALINAS VALLEY STATE PRISON, THE
LOCAL INQUIRY PROCESS TASK
PRISON STAFF WITH INVESTIGATING
ALLEGATIONS AGAINST OTHER STAFF
WORKING AT THAT SAME PRISON.
WHILE WE HAVE BEGUN MONITORING
THE STAFF COMPLAINT PROCESS ARE
MONITORING IS STILL IN ITS
INFANCY. I CAN PROVIDE SOME
ANECDOTAL INFORMATION THAT WE
HAVE GATHERED IN THE CASES WE
HAVE MONITORED TO DATE, BUT OUR
SAMPLE SIZE IS NOT YET LARGE
ENOUGH TO DETERMINE WHETHER
THESE ARE ISOLATED INSTANCES OR
INDICATIONS OF SYSTEM WIDE
DEFICIENCIES. REGARDLESS, THESE
EXAMPLES SERVE AS AN IMPORTANT
LESSON LEARNED THAT PROVIDE THE
DEPARTMENT WITH VALUABLE
TRAINING OPPORTUNITIES. WE HAVE
SEEN A MIX OF INVESTIGATIONS AND
INQUIRIES THAT WE BELIEVE ARE
SATISFACTORY AND OTHERS WE HAVE
DEEMED TO BE POOR. IN CASES THAT
CDCR HANDLED POORLY. EXCUSE ME.
WE HAVE SEEN FAILURES TO ADDRESS
ALL OF THE ALLEGATIONS. FAILURES
TO INTERVIEW COMPLAINANTS,
WITNESSES AND EVEN SUBJECTS AND
WE HAVE SEEN POOR INTERVIEWING
TECHNIQUES. WE HAVE SEEN REPORTS
THAT ARE POORLY DRAFTED AND NOT
COMPLETED TIMELY. WE HAVE NOTED
INSTANCES OF DELAYS IN NOTIFYING
THE IDEA OF INTERVIEWS BEING
CONDUCTED IN CASES BEING
COMPLETED AND SENT TO THE HIRING
AUTHORITY AND DELAYS AND TIMELY
COMPLETING THESE INQUIRIES.
PARTICULAR TO LOCAL INQUIRIES.
WE NOTED INSTANCES THAT
INVESTIGATOR THAT THE
INVESTIGATOR WAS EITHER OF THE
SAME RANK OR A LOWER RANK THAN
THE SUBJECT. PARTICULAR TO
INVESTIGATIONS. WE HAVE NOTED
INSTANCES THAT INVESTIGATORS
FAILED TO ADEQUATELY PREPARE FOR
REMOTE INTERVIEWS, COMPROMISING
THE CONFIDENTIALITY OF THE
INTERVIEW AND THE QUALITY OF THE
INTERVIEW. WE ALSO NOTED IN FEW
INSTANCES, CDCR DID NOT RETAIN
VIDEO IN CASES THAT WAS RELEVANT
TO AN INQUIRY OR INVESTIGATION.
AND WE WILL BE COMMENTING ON
THESE AREAS IN OUR UPCOMING
STAFF MISCONDUCT COMPLAINT
REPORT. WHILE WE HAVE IDENTIFIED
SEVERAL AREAS FOR IMPROVEMENT
FROM OUR MONITORING OF THESE
CASES, WE ARE ENCOURAGED BY THE
DEPARTMENT'S OVERALL WILLINGNESS
TO ADDRESS THESE CONCERNS WHEN
WE RAISE THEM TO ATTENTION. WE
HAVE BEGUN PRODUCING CASE
SUMMARIES TO BE PUBLISHED
MONTHLY ON OUR WEBSITE, WHICH
BEGAN THIS MONTH. WE PLAN ON
PUBLISHING OUR ANNUAL STAFF
COMPLAINTS MONITORING REPORT IN
LATE SPRING, WHICH WILL PROVIDE
OUR ASSESSMENTS OF THE
DEPARTMENT'S PROCESS AND
TRANSPARENCY INTO WHETHER THE
DEPARTMENT IS CONDUCTING
THOROUGH COMPLETE. AND UNBIASED
SCREENING DECISIONS, INCREASE
INVESTIGATIONS AND HIRING
AUTHORITY DISCIPLINARY
ASSESSMENT. ONCE AGAIN THANK YOU
FOR THIS OPPORTUNITY TO PROVIDE
THIS UPDATE, AND I'LL BE HAPPY
TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS THAT
THIS COMMITTEE HAS. THANK YOU.
AND NOW REMOTELY. WE'D LIKE TO
HAVE HIM PENNY GODBOLD. THANK
YOU. MY NAME IS PENNY GODBOLD.
AND I'M HERE TODAY WITH MY
COLLEAGUE, GAY GRUNFELD. WE
REPRESENT PEOPLE WITH
DISABILITIES. UNDER THE
ARMSTRONG CLIENT CLASS ACTION
CASE. AND WE'RE REPRESENTING
THESE FOLKS, ALONG WITH PRISON
LAW OFFICE AND DISABILITY RIGHTS
, EDUCATION AND DEFENSE FUND.
THANK YOU FOR INCLUDING US TODAY
IN YOUR HEARING. THERE ARE MANY
IMPORTANT ASPECTS OF THE
ARMSTRONG CASE, BUT TODAY I'VE
BEEN ASKED TO DISCUSS
ACCOUNTABILITY FOR STAFF
MISCONDUCT SPECIFICALLY. WE
FIRST ASKED THE ARMSTRONG COURT
TO ORDER CDCR TO DEVELOP A
BETTER SYSTEM FOR HOLDING STAFF
ACCOUNTABLE FOR VIOLATIONS OF
THE A. D. A IN 2007. IN 2012. WE
DEMONSTRATED THAT CDCR WAS STILL
NOT TAKING ACTION TO HOLD STAFF
ACCOUNTABLE. FOR THE LAST THREE
YEARS. WE'VE BEEN FILING MOTIONS
SHOWING THAT I'M GOING
DISCRIMINATION, ABUSE AND
RETALIATION AGAINST INCARCERATED
PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES PERSIST
BECAUSE CDCR CONTINUES TO HOLD
STAFF ACCOUNTABLE. IT'S TAKEN
INCREASINGLY SPECIFIC ORDERS.
OVER 15 PLUS YEARS TO ARRIVE AT
THE UNDERWHELMING PLACE. WHERE
HERE TODAY. CONDUCT. THAT WE
DOCUMENTED IN OUR COURT FILINGS
IS HORRIFIC. OUR CORRECTIONAL
EXPERTS AND MORE THAN 150 SWORN
STATEMENTS FROM INCARCERATED
PEOPLE. SHOWED A PATTERN. OF
PRISON STAFF TARGETING PEOPLE
WITH DISABILITIES FOR ABUSE AND
RETALIATING AGAINST THOSE WHO
REPORTED THE ABUSE. IN ONE
INCIDENT. AN OFFICER REFUSED AN
ARMSTRONG CLASS MEMBER WITH THE
MOBILITY DISABILITY REQUESTS FOR
HELP CARRYING A HEAVY PACKAGE
WHEN THE CLASS MEMBER THREATENED
TO FILE A STAFF COMPLAINT, THE
OFFICER PEPPER SPRAYED THE
PERSON IN THE FACE HIT HIM IN
THE FACE WITH THE PEPPER SPRAY
CANISTER AND THEN KICKED HIM. IN
ANOTHER INCIDENT, AN OFFICER
PUNCHED A DEAF INCARCERATED
PERSON IN THE FACE WHEN THAT
PERSON REQUESTED THAT THE
OFFICER COMMUNICATE WITH HIM AND
WRITING IN ORDER TO ACCOMMODATE
THE FACT THAT HE WAS DEAF. AS
CALIFORNIA'S OWN INTERNAL
AUDITOR ACKNOWLEDGED. THEY HAVE
NEVER HEARD ACCUSATIONS LIKE
THESE IN ALL THEIR YEARS. IT'S A
VERY SERIOUS SITUATION, AND IT
NEEDS IMMEDIATE ATTENTION. AS A
RESULT, THE DISTRICT COURT IN
THE ARMSTRONG CASE ISSUED
SEVERAL ORDERS FOCUSED ON SIX
PRISONS IN PARTICULAR. THAT WERE
AIMED AT ENSURING THAT
DEFENDANTS, THE GOVERNOR AND
CDCR CHANGED THEIR WAYS. THOSE
WAYS THAT THEY WERE COURT
ORDERED TO CHANGE ARE LISTED IN
THE AGENDA BEFORE YOU I AM HAPPY
TO REPORT THAT. THE NINTH
CIRCUIT COURT OF APPEALS
RECENTLY AFFIRMED THE VAST
MAJORITY. THE COMMON SENSE AND
NECESSARY REMEDIES THAT WERE
ORDERED IN THAT CASE IN OUR
CASE. AS THE NINTH CIRCUIT.
UNANIMOUS. OPINION EXPLAINED IF
PRISON STAFF ARE NOT HELD
ACCOUNTABLE WHEN THEY UNLAWFULLY
FAIL. TO ACCOMMODATE. DISABLED
INMATES OR WHEN THEY RETALIATE
AGAINST INMATES WHO REPORT SUCH
MISCONDUCT. DISABLED INMATES.
WELL, STOP SPEAKING UP. AND OF
PRISONERS DO NOT SPEAK UP.
THERE'S LESS OPPORTUNITY TO HOLD
OFFICERS ACCOUNTABLE. FAILING TO
HOLD OFFICERS ACCOUNTABLE.
INTERN CAN EMBOLDEN STAFF BY
SUGGESTING THAT THEY CAN VIOLATE
INMATES RIGHTS WITHIN PUNITIVE
E. FURTHER DISCOURAGING TO SAY
ABLED INMATES FROM SPEAKING UP.
AS THE THREAT OF RETALIATION
GROWS. CDC CDCR HAS NOT
UNDERTAKEN THESE REFORMS
VOLUNTARILY. THEY WERE COURT
ORDERED TO DO SO. I WOULD LIKE
TO BRIEFLY DISCUSS SOME OF THE
PRELIMINARY OBSTACLES TO REFORM
THAT WE'RE SEEING TODAY,
INCLUDING ONGOING PROBLEMS WITH
THE HANDLING OF STUFF COMPLAINTS
AND ALSO THE FAILURE TO
IMPLEMENT THE COURT ORDERED
REFORMS. AS YOU MAYBE AWARE OF
PLAINTIFF'S COUNSEL AND THE
COURTS, EXPERTS ARE CHARGED WITH
MONITORING THESE ORDERS. AT THE
SIX PRISONS. WE REVIEW
INVESTIGATION FILES TO DETERMINE
. THE INVESTIGATIONS ARE, IN
FACT, COMPLETE AND UNBIASED, IF
APPROPRIATE, AND CONSISTENT
DISCIPLINE IS BEING IMPOSED AND
IF STAFF ARE COMPLYING WITH BODY
WORN CAMERA POLICIES. THUS FAR,
WE'VE REFUTE HUNDREDS OF CASES
FROM ALL SIX PRISONS.
UNFORTUNATELY, OUR REPORTS HAVE
FOUND THAT CDCR HAS MADE LITTLE
PROGRESS IN CHANGING BEHAVIOR TO
INVESTIGATE AND HOLD STAFF
ACCOUNTABLE. AS FAR AS ONGOING
FAILURES WITH INVESTIGATIONS GO
THE INVESTIGATIONS CONDUCTED BY
CDCR, ESPECIALLY INTO SERIOUS
ALLEGATIONS OF MISCONDUCT REMAIN
DEFICIENT. INVESTIGATORS
REGULARLY FAILED TO RETAIN. AND
REVIEW AVAILABLE VIDEO FOOTAGE.
THIS IS SIGNIFICANT BECAUSE THE
FOOTAGE IS ONLY RETAINED FOR 90
DAYS IF INVESTIGATORS FAILED TO
PULL THE CORRECT FOOTAGE OR THEY
DO NOT PULL ENOUGH FOOTAGE TO BE
ABLE TO CONFIRM WHETHER OR NOT
THE STAFF MISCONDUCT HAS
OCCURRED. BUT IT'S IS THEN LOST
BY THE TIME PLANES COUNCIL OR
THE COURT EXPERTS ARE ABLE TO
REVIEW THE CASE. WE DON'T REVIEW
THE CASES UNTIL AFTER THEY'RE
CLOSED. FOR EXAMPLE, IN ONE CASE
, THE WE REVIEWED THE ALLEGATION
DIDN'T SPECIFY THE EXACT TIME OF
DAY THAT THE MISCONDUCT OCCURRED
. THE INVESTIGATOR PULLED A
RANDOM OUR INSTEAD OF THE ENTIRE
DAY OF FOOTAGE BECAUSE THAT ONE
HOUR DIDN'T SHOW THE MISCONDUCT
THAT HAD BEEN ALLEGED. THE
INVESTIGATOR THEN CLOSED THE
CASE AS UNFOUNDED. WE HAVE ALSO
SEEN OTHER EVIDENCE OF POOR
DECISION MAKING AND
INVESTIGATIONS, SUCH AS FAILING
TO INTERVIEW OR IN EVEN IDENTIFY
THE SUBJECT OF THE ALLEGATION.
WE SEE THESE FAILINGS FROM BOTH
LOCAL PRISON INVESTIGATORS WHO
ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE LESS
SERIOUS ALLEGATIONS AND ALSO
FROM HAWAII, A INVESTIGATORS.
THERE HAVE ALSO BEEN ONGOING
FAILURES WITH THE DISCIPLINE.
EVEN IN THE FEW CASES WHERE
INVESTIGATORS DO UNCOVER
EVIDENCE OF SERIOUS MISCONDUCT,
WE SEE EGREGIOUS EXAMPLES OF
WARDENS WHO FAIL. TO SUSTAIN
FINDINGS OF THIS CONDUCT OR TO
APPROACH IMPOSE APPROPRIATE
DISCIPLINE. AS A RESULT, IN A
RECENT CASE WE REVIEWED, FOR
EXAMPLE, OFFICERS RUSHED INTO A
CELL BECAUSE THE PERSON IN THE
CELL WAS NOT RESPONSIVE ONCE
INSIDE THE CELL. THE FIRST
REACTION OF THE OFFICERS WAS TO
THROW THE PERSON FROM THE TOP
BUCK ONTO THE CONCRETE GROUND.
OFFICERS WERE NOT DISCIPLINED
FOR THAT UNNECESSARY AND
EXCESSIVE USE OF FORCE. MORE
OFTEN THAN NOT, OFFICERS ARE
ISSUES SOME TYPE OF CORRECTIVE
ACTIONS SUCH AS TRAINING. A
LETTER OF OR A LETTER OF
INSTRUCTION RATHER THAN
DISCIPLINE. WE SEE THIS EVEN IN
CASES INVOLVING SOME OF THE MOST
SERIOUS ALLEGATIONS OF
MISCONDUCT INVOLVED IN INCLUDING
VIOLENT AND UNNECESSARY USES OF
FORCE. IT IS DISCOURAGING THAT
MORE THAN 2.5 YEARS AFTER THIS
COURT'S INITIAL ORDER REGARDING
THIS PORTION OF THE LITIGATION.
THE DECISION MAKING AN OUTCOME
OF THE INVESTIGATIONS HAS NOT
SIGNIFICANTLY CHANGED BECAUSE WE
NOW HAVE ACCESS TO VIDEO FOOTAGE
WHEN IT IS PRESERVED AND
PRODUCED TO US WE CAN CONFIRM
THAT CDCR IS FAILING TO HOLD
STAFF ACCOUNTABLE FOR MISCONDUCT
WHEN IT IS CAPTURED ON VIDEO. I
ALSO WANT TO HIGHLIGHT AN
IMPORTANT PROBLEM THAT'S EMERGED
WITH CITY CRS STAFF MISCONDUCT
INVESTIGATION PROCESS. THE
SYSTEM IS SUPPOSED TO ENSURE
THAT ALLEGATIONS OF SERIOUS
MISCONDUCT ARE ROUTED OUTSIDE OF
THE PRISON TO THE OFFICE OF
INTERNAL AFFAIRS FOR
INVESTIGATION. WE UNDERSTOOD
THAT CDCR WOULD APPLY THE SAME
STANDARD STATEWIDE TO ROUTING
ALLEGATIONS OF STAFF MISCONDUCT
, HOWEVER, AFTER PLANS WERE
SOLIDIFIED AND REGULATIONS WERE
IMPLEMENTED, CDCR INFORMED US
THAT THEY CHANGED THEIR MIND.
THEY WERE RECEIVING TOO MANY
ALLEGATIONS OF SERIOUS STUFF
THIS CONDUCT TO PROCESS THEM
PROPERLY. INSTEAD OF ENSURING.
THAT STAFF AT AWAY COULD HANDLE
THE INFLUX OF COMPLAINTS. CDCR
CHOSE TO STOP THE INFLUX FROM
GOING TO OH, I A NOW AT THE SIX
PRISONS COVERED BY COURT ORDER,
SERIOUS ALLEGATIONS OF STAFF
MISCONDUCT. GO TO I A AND OTHER
PRISONS. DEFENDANTS ARE USING A
DIFFERENT STANDARD, A STANDARD
THAT MAKES IT HARDER. FOR STAFF
MISCONDUCT ALLEGATIONS TO GO TO
A THIS DECISION DEFIES LOGIC AND
WILL ONLY RESULT IN ADDITIONAL
LYRIC GATIEN AND EXPENSE FOR THE
STATE STAFF. MISCONDUCT IS A
STATEWIDE PROBLEM. IT MAKES NO
SENSE FOR A STAFF COMPLAINED TO
BE HANDLED DIFFERENTLY.
DEPENDING ON WHICH PRISON YOUR
HOUSE DÂN. THROUGH OUR WORK
MONITORING CDCR. ONE THING HAS
BECOME ABUNDANTLY CLEAR. CDCR
SHOULD HAVE FIXED SURVEILLANCE
CAMERAS AND BODY WORN CAMERAS
AND ALL OF ITS PRISONS AS SOON
AS POSSIBLE. ACCOUNTABILITY IS
ALL BUT IMPOSSIBLE WITHOUT VIDEO
EVIDENCE. THE RARE INSTANCES WE
SEE IN WHICH CCR DOES HOLD STAFF
ACCOUNTABLE, INVARIABLY INVOLVED
VIDEO SHOWING OFFICERS VIOLATING
THEIR DUTIES. BODYWORK CAMERA
FOOTAGE IN PARTICULAR. HAS BEEN
REGULATORY AS IT CAPTURES AUDIO
OF THE STAFF'S INTERACTIONS WITH
INCARCERATED PEOPLE SHOWING, FOR
EXAMPLE, OFFICERS WHO
UNNECESSARILY ESCALATE
SITUATIONS THAT THEN REQUIRE
DANGEROUS USES OF FORCES.
WITHOUT VIDEO FOOTAGE, THE BEST
MAJORITY OF INVESTIGATIONS. TURN
INTO A, HE SAID. HE SAID THAT IS
NEARLY ALWAYS RESOLVED IN STAFFS
FAVOR. DESPITE THE UTILITY OF
BODY MORE CAMERAS, THE
GOVERNOR'S BUDGET DOES NOT
INCLUDE ANY ADDITIONAL FUNDING
FOR BODY WORN CAMERAS TO BE
EXPANDED TO ADDITIONAL PRISONS.
THIS IS A MISTAKE. WE URGED THE
LEGISLATURE TO FIND BODY WORN
CAMERAS AT ALL PRISONS. OVER AND
OVER. CDCR REPEATS THE TIRED
REFRAIN THAT IT TAKES STAFF
MISCONDUCT VERY SERIOUSLY. YET
CCR FAILS TO HOLD ITS OWN
OFFICERS AND WARDENS ACCOUNTABLE
FOR MISCONDUCT VIOLATIONS OF
POLICY OR IGNORED. OR AT MOST
MET WITH SLAPS ON THE WRIST. THE
RESULT IS THE STAFF COMPLAINT
INVESTIGATIONS SHOW NO MARKED
DIFFERENCE IN OUTCOMES DESPITE
REFORMS AND YEARS OF OVERSIGHT.
WE RECENTLY LEARNED THAT A
SINGLE OFFICER WHO WAS EMPLOYED
FOR OVER A DECADE AT CCW F. HAS
BEEN ACCUSED OF SEX WOMAN'S
CONDUCT BY OVER 20 DIFFERENT
WOMEN. IT'S HARD TO BELIEVE THAT
NOBODY KNEW THIS WAS HAPPENING,
ESPECIALLY BECAUSE IT IS ALLEGED
THE OFFICER WAS CAUGHT ON CAMERA
TAKING HIS VICTIMS INTO THE ONE
ROOM WITHOUT ANY CAMERA
COVERAGE. YEAH THE CODE OF
SILENCE PREVAILED. WE HAVE
REPEATEDLY ASKED FOR INFORMATION
ABOUT HOW MANY STAFF COMPLAINTS
WERE FILED AGAINST THIS OFFICER.
AND WHY IT TOOK SO LONG FOR
ACTION TO BE TAKEN IN THIS CASE.
CDCR WILL NEVER COME INTO
COMPLIANCE WITH MULTIPLE CLASS
ACTIONS AND END FEDERAL COURT
OVERSIGHT UNLESS IT RADICALLY
REFORMS, ITS CULTURE AND HOLDS
OFFICERS, WARDENS AND TOP
ADMINISTRATORS ACCOUNTABLE FOR
STAFF MISCONDUCT AGAINST
INCARCERATED PEOPLE. THANK YOU.
PLEASE GO AHEAD. ALLYSON HEWITT
DEPARTMENT OF FINANCE NO
SPECIFIC COMMENTS AVAILABLE FOR
ANY QUESTIONS AS IT PERTAINS TO
THE BCP. OKAY I WILL MOVE TO
COMMENTS FROM THE COMMITTEE AT
THIS POINT. AND I HAVE A FEW TO
START OFF WITH AND SOME
QUESTIONS. I'LL START WITH THIS
GENERAL ACCOUNT. COMMENT IT
SOUNDS LIKE THIS ISSUE HAS BEEN
BREWING FOR UH, MORE THAN A
DECADE AND WE ARE NOW ONLY
TRYING TO REMEDY THE PROBLEM,
AND I'M SEEING A PATTERN WITH
CDCR ONLY ENGAGING IN SYSTEMIC
REFORMS WHEN IT IS FORCED TO,
AND I CANNOT UNDERSTAND WHY THIS
CONTINUES TO BE THE CASE. THE
LACK OF URGENCY FROM THE
DEPARTMENT TO ACT OVER ALL OF
THESE YEARS IS INCREDIBLY
TROUBLING BECAUSE IT SENDS THE
WRONG MESSAGE TO THE
PERPETRATORS INSIDE OUR
COMMERCIAL SYSTEM WITH THAT
SAID, MAYBE WE CAN GET THIS
RIGHT THIS TIME AND NOT HAVE TO
WAIT ANOTHER 15 YEARS. I AM
CERTAINLY GOING TO BE PUTTING
FOCUS ON NOTICE. I'M AT THE
START OF MY LEGISLATIVE CAREER.
AND THIS ASSEMBLY. THE OTHER
COMMENT I HAVE TO MAKE IS TO
EXPRESS MY PERSONAL HORROR. AT
THE KIND OF INCIDENTS THAT ARE
BEING DESCRIBED. THESE AREN'T
JUST ISSUES WHERE AN EMPLOYEE IS
CLOCKING OUT EARLY OR TAKING A
LONGER LUNCH. THE SOUND LIKE
CRIMES TO ME. THE AGENDA
INCLUDES AN INCIDENT WHICH I
WILL READ OUT LOUD AND FORGIVE
ME FOR THE PROFANITY THAT I AM
ABOUT TO USE. AND INCARCERATED
PERSON WITH A MOBILITY
DISABILITY. PROTESTED THAT AN
OFFICER WAS SEARCHING HIM IN A
WAY THAT WAS INCOMPATIBLE WITH
HIS DISABILITY. IN RESPONSE, THE
OFFICER TOLD HIM I DON'T GIVE A
SH IT SLAMMED HIM TO THE GROUND.
AND THEN PUNCHED AND KICKED HIM
IN THE FACE AND RIBS. AND HE WAS
RESTRAINED IN HANDCUFFS. THE
OFFICER STEPPED ON HIS HEAD. AND
HIGH FIVED NEARBY STAFF MEMBERS.
THERE ARE SO MANY MORE THAT WERE
CATEGORIZED AND OUTLINED AND
DESCRIBED IN THIS REPORT THAT WE
RECEIVED. AND IF I READ THEM, I
WILL SIT HERE AND CRY. SO MY
QUESTION IS THIS IS THE INCIDENT
I JUST DESCRIBED TREATED AS A
CRIME. OR JUST A COMPLAINT WITH
ADMINISTRATIVE REMEDIES. BECAUSE
I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHAT
THRESHOLD NEEDS TO BE CROSSED
FOR A STAFF COMPLAINT. TO BE
TURNED INTO A CRIME AND INTO A
CRIMINAL MATTER. AND. ON THAT
POINT, BECAUSE THIS IS A FISCAL
COMMITTEE. I JUST ASKED IF THERE
WERE SPECIFIC LINE ITEMS THAT
OUTLINED THE COST OF LITIGATION
AND SETTLEMENTS. ASSOCIATED WITH
THESE KIND OF STAFF MISCONDUCT
ISSUES. AND I WAS TOLD THAT
THERE IT'S ALL OVER THE BUDGET
AND CAN'T BE PROVIDED. WE CAN'T
BE PROVIDED ANY SPECIFIC
INFORMATION ABOUT THIS. IT'S A
COST TO OUR HUMANITY FOR SURE.
BUT IT IS CERTAINLY A COST TO
THE FISCAL OUTCOMES. OF THIS
DEPARTMENT. ANY QUESTION ANY
RESPONSE TO THAT? MADAM TERRIFY
MAY UH AND WE WOULD AGREE WITH
YOU AS A DEPARTMENT THAT THE
ALLEGATIONS THAT YOU READ
APPALLING, APPALLING AND
ABSOLUTELY NOT REPRESENTATIVE OF
THE GREAT WORK THAT HAPPENS IN
OUR AGENCY EVERY SINGLE DAY, AND
YET WE RECOGNIZE THAT WE HAVE AN
OBLIGATION TO LOOK INTO THOSE
ALLEGATIONS AND TO DO IT IN A
WAY THAT GIVES US THE ABILITY TO
ALSO SEEK CRIMINAL PROSECUTION
WHEN WE HAVE EVIDENCE THAT THAT
CRIMINAL ACTIVITY HAS OCCURRED.
ONE BIG CHANGE IN THIS PROCESS
THAT WE MADE IN OUR PAST PROCESS
. WE ALWAYS DETERMINED IF WE
WERE GOING TO INVESTIGATE
CRIMINAL ALLEGATIONS OR
ADMINISTRATIVE ALLEGATIONS, AND
SOMETIMES BOTH, AND WE MADE THAT
DISTINCTION ALL THE WAY FROM THE
VERY BEGINNING. IN THIS NEW
PROCESS, WE HAVE TAKEN A STAND
THAT WE WILL PROCEED AS IF EVERY
ALLEGATION THAT INCLUDES
POSSIBLE POSSIBLE CRIMINAL
MISCONDUCT WOULD ABSOLUTELY BE
INVESTIGATED THAT WAY. THAT WE
WOULD COMPLETE THOSE
INVESTIGATIONS AS IF THERE WAS
THE POTENTIAL FOR CRIMINAL
MISCONDUCT CAUSE WE HAVE TO
REMEMBER THAT THAT OUR STAFF
HAVE CERTAIN RIGHTS IN A
CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION THAT THEY
DON'T HAVE AN ADMINISTRATIVE
INVESTIGATIONS. AND SO WE HAVE
TO SOMETIMES PARSE THAT OUT AND
MAKE SURE THAT WE DON'T CROSS
THAT LINE SO AS NOT TO
CONTAMINATE THE ACTUAL
INVESTIGATION AND THE POTENTIAL
FOR SEEKING CRIMINAL CHARGES. SO
IN THIS PARTICULAR PROCESS THAT
WE'VE STOOD UP, WE HAVE STOPPED
IDENTIFYING ON THE FRONT END. IF
WE BELIEVE IT'S GOING TO BE
CRIMINAL OR ADMINISTRATIVE, AND
INSTEAD WE PROCEED WITH ALL
CAUTION, RECOGNIZING THAT
SOMETHING THAT MAY NOT EVEN LOOK
LIKE IT'S CRIMINAL IN THE
BEGINNING COULD ACT ABSOLUTELY
TURN THAT WAY LATER, AND THEN WE
EVALUATE BEFORE WE GET TO THE
POINT WHERE WE'RE INTERVIEWING
SUBJECTS. AH AND OTHER PERSONS
THAT MIGHT ACTUALLY BE
IMPLICATED IN MISCONDUCT TO MAKE
SURE THAT WE DON'T CONTAMINATE
THAT INVESTIGATION AND DON'T
PREVENT THE ABILITY FOR A VERY
CLEAN INVESTIGATION GOING TO
PROSECUTING AUTHORITIES ON THE
OUTSIDE. THE OTHER THING THAT'S
REALLY IMPORTANT TO NOTE IS THAT
OUR THRESHOLD FOR ADMINISTRATIVE
REMEDIES IS ABSOLUTELY VERY
DIFFERENT FROM THE THRESHOLD OF
A CRIMINAL INDICTMENT OR
CRIMINAL CHARGES BEING PURSUED
AND ALTHOUGH WE CAN TAKE THESE
INVESTIGATIONS, AND WE CAN PUT
THEM IN THE HANDS OF LOCAL
AUTHORITIES, WHO DETERMINE IF
THEY'RE GOING TO SEEK
PROSECUTION. WE DON'T MAKE THAT
FINAL DECISION AT OUR INN IN
CDCR INSTEAD, THAT'S SOMETHING
THAT LOCAL AUTHORITIES MAKE. IS
THAT THE PROCESS FOR EVERY
PRISON AND WHY ISN'T IT THE
POLICY IF IT'S IF IT'S NOT? I'M
NOT SURE THAT I UNDERSTAND YOUR
QUESTION, MADAM CHAIR, BUT LET
ME SAY THIS THAT FOR THE OFFICE
OF INTERNAL AFFAIRS THAT
ABSOLUTELY THAT IS OUR PROCESS
FOR THE ALLEGATION INVESTIGATION
UNIT AND OUR INVESTIGATIONS ON
ALLEGATIONS AGAINST INCARCERATED
PERSONS AND PAROLEES THAT WE NOW
PURSUE THOSE, UM AS IF THEY
MIGHT BE CRIMINAL. FROM THE VERY
BEGINNING. I THINK WE HEARD FROM
MS GARBLED THAT THERE WAS A
VARIANCE IN THE KIND OF PROCESS
THAT WAS APPLIED. ACROSS THE
PRISONS, SO I DON'T KNOW IF
PERHAPS MISS GODBOLD WANTS TO
RESPOND TO THAT, OR MS GRUNFELD
UM SORRY. I'M HAPPY TO RESPOND
TO THAT. UM BEFORE I RESPOND TO
THE SPECIFIC QUESTION ABOUT THE
VARIANTS, UM, I DO WANT TO
ACKNOWLEDGE. UM THAT THERE IS IN
THE NEW STAFF MISCONDUCT
COMPLAINT PROCESS THAT IS IN THE
PROCESS OF ROLLING OUT STATEWIDE
, THERE HAS BEEN A CHANGE MADE
TO THE PROCESS, AS WAS JUST
DESCRIBED. BY DIRECTOR MILLER.
UM HOWEVER, IN PRACTICE. WE
HAVEN'T SEEN ANY EVIDENCE OF THE
CASES THAT WE ARE RECEIVING FOR
OUR REVIEW, UM, OF THEM BEING
ACTUALLY HANDLED ANY DIFFERENTLY
, AND IN FACT, WE HAVE SEEN
EVIDENCE OF WHAT WE BELIEVE IS
CRIMINAL MISCONDUCT. NG,
INCLUDING A RECENT CASE WHERE AN
OFFICER. UM ADMITTED THAT HE
SIMPLY JUST GOT FRUSTRATED WITH
AN INCARCERATED PERSON AND
SLAMMED HIS HEAD AGAINST A CAGE.
UM AND THERE WAS NO EVIDENCE OF
ANY CRIMINAL REFERRAL OR
PROSECUTION, OR, UH, HANDLING OF
THAT IS A CRIMINAL MATTER IN
THAT CASE. UM SO. THERE HAS BEEN
A CHANGE IN PROCESS BUT NO NO
RECOGNIZABLE CHANGE IN BEHAVIOR
. UM, IN TERMS OF THESE
INVESTIGATIONS AND HOW THESE
CASES ARE TO YOUR SPECIFIC
QUESTION ABOUT UM, HOW CASES
WILL BE TREATED DIFFERENTLY AT
THE SIX PRISONS VERSUS THE NON
SIX PRISONS. UM WHEN I'M
REFERRING TO THERE IS, UM THE
ADDITION OF A STANDARD WHERE UM
YEAH, CDCR IS REQUIRING, UM,
ALLEGATIONS TO PLEAD A CAUSAL
CONNECTION. UM BETWEEN THE
ALLEGED. DISCRIMINATION OR
RETALIATION, WHATEVER MISCONDUCT
IS BEING ALLEGED, AND A
PROTECTED CLASS. AND THAT'S A
HEIGHTENED PLEADING STANDARD
THAT'S GOING IN IS ALREADY MY
UNDERSTANDING BEEN IMPLEMENTED
AT THE NON SIX PRISONS, SO IT'S
THIS ADDITIONAL HURDLE THAT
PEOPLE MUST BE ABLE TO OVERCOME
BEFORE THEY CAN GET THEIR CASE.
UH, INVESTIGATED BY O I A. THANK
YOU. I'LL OPEN FOR QUESTIONS, MR
LUCKY. YEAH, FIRST, ALL, UM LET
ME JUST SAY REAL QUICKLY. MY
HISTORY. IF YOU DON'T KNOW, I AM
RETIRED. A LAW ENFORCEMENT AND
I'M STRONGLY HURT. AND
FRUSTRATED BY. ANY KIND OF
MISCONDUCT WHILE WEARING A
UNIFORM BECAUSE IT RESULTS IN
EXTREME BETRAYAL OF TRUST. UM. I
BELIEVE STRONGLY IN
ACCOUNTABILITY. BY THE BEHAVIOR
OF NON UNIFORM PEOPLE, BUT I DO
BELIEVE THAT PEOPLE WHO WEAR
UNIFORM SHOULD BE HELD TO EVEN
HIGHER STANDARD. UM AND I FIND
THAT WHEN WE DO NOT THAT AH
THESE KINDS OF BEHAVIORS
RESULTS. NOT ONLY IN THE
BETRAYAL OF TRUST BUT OVER
STEREOTYPING. BECAUSE IT'S JUST
BELIEVE THAT'S IT'S A NATURAL
CONSEQUENCE. AND SO I'M HIGHLY.
INTERESTED IN HOLDING PEOPLE
ACCOUNTABLE, ESPECIALLY FOR THE
KIND OF MISTREATMENT THAT WE'VE
BEEN TALKING ABOUT. AM I? MY
BIGGEST QUESTION COMES TO AND
LET ME JUST MAKE REAL QUICKLY
AND A STRONG PLEA FOR ANY
FACILITY THAT IS NOT UTILIZING
CAMERAS. AS A DISAPPOINTMENT.
AND I BELIEVE THAT. IT ALSO
WORKS AND PROTECTING THE UNIFORM
PERSONNEL FROM FALSE
ACCUSATIONS. I BELIEVE VERY,
VERY HEARTILY THAT THAT IT'S A
SOLUTION. TO BUILDING TRUST
BACK. AND IF WE'RE NOT UTILIZING
THAT, AND FINDING IS THE
PROBLEM. I'M ALL FOR SUPPORTING
WHATEVER IT TAKES. TO AH,
ACTUALLY IMPLEMENT YOU. USE OF
PERSONAL CAMERAS AND AREA
CAMERAS. SO I MY UNDERSTANDING
IS THAT IT'S NOT FULLY ADOPTED
BY ALL PRISONS, AND SO THAT'S A
DISAPPOINTMENT. UM. I WILL. ALSO
MY QUESTION COMES ALONG THE LINE
OF WHEN OUR INVESTIGATIONS EVER
TURNED OVER TO PROSECUTORS. UM
IS IT ONLY WHEN EMPLOYEES ARE
DISMISSED? UM BECAUSE WE'RE
TALKING ABOUT THERE IS
DEFINITELY CRIMINAL CONDUCT THAT
HAS TAKEN PLACE. AND THE ONE
EXAMPLE THAT WAS A VERY EXTREME
AND DISHEARTENING THE SITUATION
WE KNOW WAS TURNED OVER TO
DISTRICT ATTORNEY ABOUT THE
EMPLOYEE HAD ALREADY RESIGNED.
UM. BUT THAT'S NOT THE CASE IN
EVERY INSTANCE. AND I JUST
WONDER WHAT IS THE POLICY WITHIN
THE DEPARTMENT OF WHEN A CASE IS
TURNED OVER TO A CITY OR
DISTRICT ATTORNEY? THANK YOU FOR
THAT QUESTION. AND SO AS I
MENTIONED WITH THE OFFICE OF
INTERNAL AFFAIRS AS WE CONDUCT
INVESTIGATIONS WHEN THERE'S
EVIDENCE OF CRIMINAL MISCONDUCT
, IT'S THE OFFICE OF INTERNAL
AFFAIRS WHO WORKS WITH THOSE
LOCAL DISTRICT ATTORNEYS AND
OTHERS SHARES THE INFORMATION IN
THE CASE AND ULTIMATELY THAT
THAT CASE, UH THAT THAT DISTRICT
ATTORNEY WILL MAKE THAT DECISION
. NOW THEY HAVE THOSE
CONVERSATIONS IN ADVANCE. ALSO.
RECOGNIZING THAT WE ARE VERY
CAREFUL NOT TO CROSS THAT
THRESHOLD AND WANT TO MAKE SURE
THAT WE CAN GIVE AND TURN OVER
THE BEST CASE POSSIBLE, BUT
ABSOLUTELY THAT'S A FUNCTION OF
THE OFFICE OF INTERNAL AFFAIRS.
LIKEWISE IF AN INSTITUTION IF A
WARDEN OR EVEN IF A PAROLE
ADMINISTRATOR BELIEVES THAT THEY
HAVE INFORMATION OF EMPLOYEE
MISCONDUCT, THEY WILL
IMMEDIATELY BRING THAT TO THE
OFFICE OF INTERNAL AFFAIRS. WE
HAVE A PROCESS CALLED EXIGENT
CASES, AND IN MANY CASES, WE
WILL IMMEDIATELY GET THE LOCAL
AUTHORITIES INVOLVED, AS WELL AS
THE OFFICE OF INTERNAL AFFAIRS
IN THOSE CASES. YEAH I'M ACUTELY
AWARE OF LABARGA CONFLICTS, AND
SO I UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE
BETWEEN ADMINISTRATIVE AND
CRIMINAL. BUT MY BIGGEST
FRUSTRATION AND I JUST HOPE THAT
THERE'S A COOPERATIVE EFFORT
BETWEEN OPPOSITE INTERNAL
AFFAIRS. AND THE ATTORNEYS WHEN
THERE IS CRIMINAL MISCONDUCT AND
THERE ARE COSTS. UM. AS WE'RE
SINCE WE'RE FISCAL COMMITTEE,
THE CIVIL LAWSUIT COSTS ARE
ENORMOUS. AND MORE IMPORTANTLY,
THOUGH, IS THE COST. THAT'S HARD
TO MEASURE, AND THAT'S THE
MISTRUST. AND SO I'M I JUST WANT
YOUR AGENCY TO KNOW THAT I AND I
BELIEVE THAT THIS ENTIRE
LEGISLATIVE BODY BELIEVES IN
THIS VERY, VERY VIGOROUSLY THAT
WE NEED TO HOLD PEOPLE
ACCOUNTABLE, UM, THAT HAVE THESE
POSITIONS OF AUTHORITY AND
BECAUSE WHEN THIS AUTHORITY IS
BETRAYED IN MY OPINION, IT IS
CRIMINAL. AND, UH, I DON'T THINK
THAT THEY HAVE IF THEY'RE
ENGAGING IN CRIMINAL CONDUCT
WEARING A UNIFORM, THEY SHOULD
NO LONGER BE ALLOWED TO WEAR
THAT UNIFORM EVER. AND THAT'S
JUST MY PERSONAL OPINION. AND I
JUST VERY DISCOURAGED, AND I
HOPE THAT THE USE OF CAMERAS
WILL BECOME MORE WIDESPREAD AND
MONEY IS AN ISSUE. WE NEED TO
ADDRESS THAT IN THIS FISCAL
COMMITTEE. THANK YOU. MR JOHN
SAWYER, AND HOPEFULLY HOPEFULLY
THIS IS A QUICK QUESTION BECAUSE
IT'S PROBABLY MORE FOR THE O I G
THAN THAN ANYONE ELSE. I HAD
ASKED, UH TO PROVIDE ADDITIONAL
RESOURCES FOR THE OFFICE OF
INSPECTOR GENERAL SO THAT THEY
COULD THEN HELP WITH OVERSIGHT.
I'M READING HERE THAT OUT OF 25.
PERCENT OF THE COMPLAINTS THAT
YOU'RE CURRENTLY ONLY ABLE TO
PROVIDE OVERSIGHT, TOTALLY 8% OF
COMPLAINTS. WELL. I HAD ASKED
FOR ADDITIONAL MONEY AND
RESOURCE AND I WAS TOLD BY THE
OFFICE OF INSPECTOR GENERAL THAT
THEY COULD HANDLE IT. THEY
DIDN'T NEED ANY MORE MONEY AND
RESOURCES BUT NOW READING YOU
CAN'T FULFILL. OVERSIGHT WHICH I
THINK WOULD BE VERY HELPFUL. UM
FOR AIMS AND EVERYBODY ELSE IF
WE HAD, AND EVEN DEALING WITH
THE WARDENS, IF THEY'RE MAKING
DECISIONS, SOMEBODY NEEDS TO BE
SITTING THERE LOOKING TO MAKE
SURE THAT EVERYONE DOING WHAT
THEY NEED TO DO THAT'S
INDEPENDENT. FROM THE SYSTEM
BECAUSE I THINK IN SOME WAYS THE
SYSTEM IS PROBLEMATIC. UM AND SO
I DON'T KNOW. I'M BUT NOW I ALSO
SAID THE GOVERNMENT WANT $9.6
MILLION. IT DOESN'T SOUND LIKE
IT'S 40. OH, I G BUT FOR OTHERS
AND SO I'M I'M CONFUSED. UM,
BECAUSE I'M. I THINK WE NEED
EVERYBODY ALL HANDS ON DECK TO
GET THIS. GET THIS RIGHT BECAUSE
THE AS MY COLLEAGUES HAVE SAID
THE BUT THINGS THAT ARE DONE
THAT ARE INAPPROPRIATE. UM, THAT
ARE CRIMINAL. JUST OUTRAGEOUS.
AND UH, WE PROBABLY NEED TO STEP
UP OUR EFFORTS TO HAVE OVERSIGHT
NOT REDUCE. OR JUST GIVE THE
MINIMUM REQUIRED ON EVERYBODY'S
LEVEL. OKAY. WHERE ARE WE ON? ON
THAT. JUST GOT A NOTE. GENERAL
PERHAPS YOU HAVE THE MONEY. THEY
HAVEN'T HIRED ANYONE. I ASKED
FOR ADDITIONAL, LIKE $14 MILLION
AND IT WAS NO DITCH. THEY DID
GET IT. OKAY, SO I WAS GIVING MR
JOHN FOR AN OPPORTUNITY TO READ
HIS NOTE. UM, BUT THANK YOU FOR
THAT CONCERN AND RAISING THAT
CONCERN. I JUST WANT TO ADDRESS
THAT THE I G IS A SMALL AGENCY
AND WHEN WE WERE, UH, GIVEN THE
RESOURCES THAT WE REQUESTED, WE
ACTUALLY DIDN'T GET THOSE
RESOURCES UNTIL JULY ONE. SO
WE'VE PRETTY MUCH BEEN BORROWING
FROM OUR OTHER TEAMS TO GET THE
STAFF COMPLAINT MONITORING UNIT
UP AND RUNNING BEFORE WE
ACTUALLY GOT THE FUNDING, SO WE
DIDN'T HAVE POSITIONS AND WE
DIDN'T HAVE THE MONEY. SO I
BORROWED FROM MY AT THE TIME
SMALL AGENCY OF LESS THAN 130
PEOPLE I BORROWED FROM OTHER
TEAMS TO START BUILDING THE
STAFF COMPLAINTS MONITORING
UNIT. WE WE GOT INTO, UM JULY
ONE. WE STARTED HIRING FOR
POSITIONS WE HAVE ACTIVELY HIRED
. WE HAVE FILLED A NUMBER OF
POSITIONS. WE HAVE A NUMBER OF
PEOPLE STILL IN THE BACKGROUND
HIRING PROCESS. WE ARE ACTIVELY
RECRUITING TO FILL THAT TEAM. SO
YES, OUR NUMBERS ARE LOW, BUT
THAT'S ONLY BECAUSE WE'VE WE'VE
HAD STAFFING FOR CERTAIN
POSITIONS FOR ABOUT SIX MONTHS.
AND SO AS WE ARE HIRING AN
ACTIVELY RECRUITING AND BUILDING
, OUR NUMBERS WILL GO UP AND WE
WILL BE ABLE TO MONITOR AND MEET
OUR THRESHOLD. THAT IS OUR GOAL.
UM BUT AS YOU KNOW, HIRING CAN
CAN TAKE SOME TIME BETWEEN
RECRUITING FOR POSITIONS,
INTERVIEWS BACKGROUNDS GOING
THROUGH THE KELLY JAR PROCESS.
UM IT TAKES IT TAKES SEVERAL
WEEKS TO ACTUALLY GET PEOPLE ON
BOARD AND THEN TO GET THEM
TRAINED. ARE CENTRALIZED
SCREENING TEAM. THAT TEAM HAS WE
HAVE FILLED THE POSITIONS THAT
WE WERE ALLOTTED AND SO WE ARE
NOW LOOKING FORWARD TO PUTTING
OTHER PEOPLE IN PLACING IF I CAN
STILL BORROW FROM OTHER TEAMS TO
CONTINUE THAT MONITORING. WE ARE
ACTIVELY RECRUITING AND HIRING.
WE HAVE MANY PEOPLE IN PLACE NOW
FOR OUR, UM, MONITORS FOR THE
INTERNAL AFFAIRS CASES AND OUR
MONITORS FOR THE LOCAL INQUIRY
CASES. WE'VE ALSO BUILT UP A
TEAM THAT IS STARTING TO LOOK AT
OUR DATA. DO OUR DATA COLLECTION
GET A REPORT? UH TOGETHER, SO WE
HAVE BEEN FILLING POSITIONS AS
NECESSARY. AND THEN WE ALSO HAVE
A SMALL HR SHOP AND I HAVE
MULTIPLE OTHER UNITS THERE ARE
STILL SEEKING, UM, FILLING THEIR
VACANCIES, SO I'M REALLY TRYING
TO BALANCE OUT THE WORKLOAD. AT
THIS TIME. WE DID NOT MAKE THAT
REQUEST FOR ADDITIONAL FUNDING.
I WANT TO GET UM I WANT TO GET
OUR VACANCIES FILLED. I WANT TO
SEE WHAT WE CAN DO. UM AND THEN
IF IT IS NOT ENOUGH, I WILL COME
BACK AND I WILL ASK FOR MORE,
BUT I WANT TO BE FISCALLY
RESPONSIBLE. FILL THE VACANCIES
THAT WE HAVE SEE WHAT WORK WE
CAN PRODUCE AND GO FROM THERE.
THANK YOU. JUST IN LIGHT OF THE
FACT THAT THE GOVERNOR'S BUDGET
PROPOSES $9.6 MILLION IN GENERAL
FUND FOR AN ADDITIONAL 16
POSITIONS IN 23 24. ANOTHER 9.3
MILLION AND 16 POSITIONS IN 24
25 2.9 MILLION GENERAL FUND AND
16 POSITIONS IN 25 26 ONGOING TO
CONTINUE REFINING. THE CDC ARE
UPDATED STAFF MISCONDUCT
ALLEGATION COMPLAINT SCREENING,
REFERRAL AND TRACKING PROCESS
AND MECHANISMS. I WOULD VERY
MUCH LIKE TO HAVE TRANSPARENCY
AND VISIBILITY INTO THE COST OF
LITIGATION AND THE COST OF
SETTLEMENTS ASSOCIATED WITH AH!
THIS STAFF MISCONDUCT. SO IF YOU
CAN TAKE THAT, AS SOME DIRECTION
, MOVING FORWARD, I WOULD VERY
MUCH APPRECIATE IT. AND AT THIS
POINT I THINK I WILL BE CAUTIOUS
. I CAN'T EVEN SAY CAUTIOUSLY
HOPEFUL. THAT WE CAN GET THIS
PROCESS RIGHT? BECAUSE CLEARLY
LIVES ARE ON THE LINE. AND AS MR
LACKEY INDICATED TRUST AND
ACCOUNTABILITY IS ON THE LINE.
BUT WE WILL BE RELYING ON
OVERSIGHT FROM THE INSPECTOR
GENERAL'S OFFICE KNOW THAT WE
ARE THANKFUL THAT YOU ARE
BUILDING UP YOUR STAFF WITH THE
RESOURCES THAT HAVE ALREADY BEEN
PROVIDED AND CERTAINLY THANK YOU
TO THE PLAINTIFF'S ATTORNEYS FOR
INFORMING US ALONG THE WAY ON
THIS. I WANT TO THANK MS GODBOLD
AND MISS GRUNFELD FOR ALL OF
THEIR EFFORTS IN SHINING A LIGHT
ON THESE AGREE GIS ISSUES AND
FOR YOUR CONTINUED EFFORTS IN
HELPING TO IMPROVE THE
DYSFUNCTIONS IN OUR CORRECTION
SYSTEM. BECAUSE THEY ARE VAST
AND THEY SHOULD NOT BE THAT WAY.
WE'LL MOVE ON TO THE NEXT ITEM.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THANK YOU,
MADAM CHAIR. NEXT IS ISSUE
NUMBER FOUR STATEWIDE
CORRECTIONAL VIDEO SURVEILLANCE
PROGRAM CONTINUATION.
THANK YOU. YOU CAN PROCEED WITH
THE FIRST PRESENTATION.
GOOD AFTERNOON. I'M RON DAVIS,
UH, ACTING DEPUTY DIRECTOR
DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTION'S
REHABILITATION. CDCR IS
REQUESTING FUNDING AND POSITIONS
TO DEPLOY FIXED CAMERAS AT THE
REMAINING 10 INSTITUTIONS AND
FOR LICENSING SOFTWARE AND
REFRESH COST. FIXED CAMERA
TECHNOLOGY PROMOTES THE SAFETY
OF INCARCERATED INDIVIDUALS AND
STAFF AND ASSISTED CONDUCT AND
CONCLUDE INVESTIGATIONS. CAMERAS
PROVIDE THE ABILITY FOR REAL
TIME MONITORING AND RECORDING IN
ORDER TO CONDUCT INVESTIGATIONS
AND AFTER THE FACT REVIEWS BY
UTILIZING AUDIO OR VIDEO
RECORDING TECHNOLOGY, OR BOTH.
THIS REQUEST CONTINUES ON
PREVIOUSLY APPROVED PROJECTS
THAT HAVE COMPLETED INSTALLATION
OF FIXED CAMERAS AND
INSTITUTION. THE DEPARTMENT IS
COMPLETED INSTALLATION TO FIX
CAMERAS THAT 10 INSTITUTION AS
IN PROCESS OF DEPLOYING FIXED
CAMERAS. AT 11 INSTITUTIONS
DURING THIS FISCAL YEAR. UM.
THAT'S ALL I HAVE, AND I'M
AVAILABLE FOR ANY QUESTIONS ON
THIS MATTER. THANK YOU. WHAT?
ELIO? CAITLIN O'NEIL WITH THE
LAO AS I NOTED EARLIER IN THE
HEARING, THE STATE COULD BE IN A
POSITION TO DEACTIVATE FIVE
PRISONS BY 2027. HOWEVER IT'S
UNCLEAR WHAT SPECIFIC PRISONS
THOSE MIGHT BE AT THIS TIME.
THIS MEANS THAT UNDER THE
GOVERNOR'S PROPOSAL, UM THERE'S
A RISK THAT ANY OF THE PRISONS
PROPOSED TO RECEIVE VIDEO
SURVEILLANCE, WHICH WOULD BE THE
REMAINDER OF PRISONS THAT ARE
THAT ARE NOT ANNOUNCED FOR
CLOSURE AT THIS TIME. WOULD BE
DEACTIVATED SHORTLY AFTER THE
INSTALLATION, MEANING THAT THE
STATE WOULD BARELY REALIZED THE
BENEFITS OF THE A. V S S
INSTALLATION AT THOSE PRISONS.
IN ADDITION, GIVEN THE BUDGET
PROBLEM THAT THE STATE IS FACING
THIS EXPANSION WOULD COME AT THE
EXPENSE OF PREVIOUSLY IDENTIFIED
PRIOR BUDGET PRIORITIES ACROSS
THE STATE. SO WE FIND THAT WHILE
IT CAN HAVE BENEFITS, UM GIVEN
THE RISK OF INSTALLING IT AT
PRISONS THAT ARE CLOSED SHORTLY
THEREAFTER AND THE BUDGET
PROBLEM FACING THIS STATE, WE
FIND THAT IT'S NOT PRUDENT AT
THIS TIME TO EXPAND A V S S. SO
WE RECOMMEND REJECTING THE
PORTION OF THE PROPOSAL AND THE
VAST MAJORITY OF IT, UM, 87.7
MILLION IN 19 POSITIONS IN 23 24
, AS WELL AS THE ONGOING
RESOURCES RELATED TO MAINTAINING
THE PROPOSED EXPANSION. UM. AH
YEAH. AND THEN THERE'S A SMALL
PORTION OF RESOURCES RELATED TO
PREVIOUSLY APPROVED, APPROVED.
CAMERAS THAT WE WOULDN'T WE
WOULD RECOMMEND APPROVING. I'M
AVAILABLE FOR QUESTIONS. SARAH
TOMLINSON WITH THE DEPARTMENT OF
FINANCE. UM FIRST WE'D LIKE TO
NOTE THAT THIS PROPOSAL IS
CONSISTENT WITH THE CURRENT CDCR
CLOSURE PLAN AND ACCOUNTS FOR
CLOSURES THAT HAVE BEEN
ANNOUNCED THROUGH 2025.
ADDITIONALLY WHILE WE RECOGNIZE
THE CURRENT BUDGETARY
CIRCUMSTANCES, THE
ADMINISTRATION IS PROPOSING TO
COMPLETE THE STATEWIDE
INSTALLATION INSTALLATION OF
FIXED CAMERAS. BECAUSE OF THE
SIGNIFICANT BENEFITS THAT THE
NEW CAMERAS PROVIDE WITH REGARD
TO INCREASING ACCOUNTABILITY AND
PROMOTING THE SAFETY OF
INCARCERATED INDIVIDUALS AND
STAFF. UM FIXED CAMERAS SERVE AS
AN EFFECTIVE TOOL BY ENHANCING
CDCR S ABILITY TO MONITOR
ACTIVITIES WITHIN PRISONS AND
PROVIDING EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT
INVESTIGATIVE ACTIVITIES AS CDCR
COULD EXPLAIN IN MORE DETAIL THE
PRESENCE OF THE NEW CAMERAS KIND
OF ALSO SUFFER ME SERVE AS A
DETERRENT FOR ILLICIT
ACTIVITIES. LASTLY IF THE STATE
WERE TO DELAY OR HALT THE
INSTALLATION OF FIXED CAMERAS AT
CERTAIN INSTITUTIONS BASED ON
THE HYPOTHETIC POTENTIAL FOR
FUTURE CLOSURES, AMONG OTHER
THINGS, THIS COULD CREATE A
PARODY ISSUE BY PROVIDING SAFER
CONDITIONS FOR SOME STAFF AND
INCARCERATED INDIVIDUALS AND
INSTITUTIONS THAT HAVE THE
BENEFIT OF THE NEW TECHNOLOGY.
UM VERSUS THOSE THAT DO NOT
ACCORDINGLY, THE ADMINISTRATION
IS PROPOSING TO CONTINUE WITH
THE STATEWIDE ROLLOUT OF FIXED
CAMERAS AT ALL INSTITUTIONS
STATEWIDE. AND WITH THAT I
APPRECIATE YOUR TIME, AND I'M
HERE TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS THE
COMMITTEE MAY HAVE THANK YOU. I
WANT TO FIRST MAKE CLEAR THAT WE
KNOW THAT AUDIO SURVEILLANCE
VIDEO SURVEILLANCE SYSTEMS CAN
SERVE AS A DETERRENT FOR
UNDESIRABLE OR CRIMINAL ACTS,
AND THEY CAN PROVIDE EVIDENCE IN
THE TENS OF THOUSANDS OF
COMPLAINTS THAT GET FILED. I
THINK WE'VE JUST ALSO SAT
THROUGH A HEARING WHERE WE KNOW
THAT, UH THE TOOLS THAT HAVE
BEEN AVAILABLE TO US HAVE NOT
ACTUALLY BEEN ADEQUATELY
IMPLEMENTED. AND WE ALSO KNOW
THAT WE ARE DEALING WITH THIS
CIRCUMSTANCE. WHERE THE UH
BECAUSE OF THE LACK OF A PLAN
AROUND CLOSURE, WE COULD BE
MAKING INVESTMENTS INTO, UH,
FIXED CAMERA TECHNOLOGY IN
PLACES IN PRISONS THAT
ULTIMATELY WILL CLOSE, FOR
EXAMPLE, AT CHUKKA WALA STATE
PRISON WAS AUTHORIZED FOR NEW
CAMERAS LAST YEAR. AND THEN JUST
A FEW MONTHS LATER CLOSED. SO
THAT WAS MONEY INCREDIBLY ILL
SPENT IN TERMS OF CAPITAL OUTLAY
FOR US. THE DEPARTMENT SAYS THE
EQUIPMENT CAN BE USED AT ANOTHER
PRISON. BUT THIS MAY NOT ALWAYS
BE THE CASE. FROM WHAT I'VE
LEARNED SO FAR ABOUT THIS
DEPARTMENT. THERE ARE NO
ACCOUNTABILITY MECHANISMS IN
PLACE. WHEN THIS KIND OF
TAXPAYER WASTE HAPPENS. I'M NOT
AWARE OF ANY OTHER STATE AGENCY.
THAT GETS THIS KIND OF LEEWAY.
SO ONE IS QUESTION AROUND, UH,
FIXED CAMERA TECHNOLOGY VERSUS
BODY WORN TECHNOLOGY. IN THEORY,
BODY WARNED TECHNOLOGY WOULD
ACTUALLY MOVE WITH HAVE THE
ABILITY TO HAVE MORE FUND
ABILITY ACROSS INSTITUTIONS. AND
I ALSO WANT TO GET A SENSE
AROUND WHETHER CDCR HAS THOUGHT
ANYMORE ABOUT TAKING A PHASED
APPROACH TO INTO ACCOUNT, UH
REGARDING GIVEN THE POTENTIAL
PRISON CLOSURES. THANK YOU,
MADAM. CHAIR MEMBERS, MADELEINE
MCLEAN, DEPUTY DIRECTOR FOR
FISCAL SERVICES. UM SORRY IN
RELATION TO THE PHASE IN
APPROACH. DO YOU MEAN ADDITIONAL
PHASE IN FOR BODY WARNS OR JUST
IN GENERAL, WE ARE. WE'RE
COMMITTED TO COMPLETING THE
FIXED CAMERA INSTALLATION AND
THAT IS OUR GOAL AT THIS TIME
AND WILL CONSIDER IN THE FUTURE,
POTENTIALLY EXPANDING BODY
WARRANTS. BUT RIGHT NOW WE'RE
WE'RE COMPLETING THE FIXED
CAMERA INSTALLATION. WHY IF WE
KNOW THAT WE'RE HAVING
CHALLENGES WITH BEING ABLE TO BE
THOUGHTFUL ABOUT PRISON CLOSURES
, WOULD WE NOT ALSO CONSIDER
BODY WORN CAMERAS IN A PHASED
APPROACH. BECAUSE WE NEEDED TO
GET YOU WANTED TO GET THROUGH
THE FIXED CAMERA INSTALLATION
FIRST, AND I THINK IT'S
IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT YES.
POTENTIALLY DOWN THE ROAD. THERE
MAY BE AN INSTITUTION THAT IS
CLOSED, BUT THE SHORT TERM
BENEFITS OF HAVING THE CAMERAS
INSTALLED OUTWEIGH THE LONG TERM
BENEFITS AND SO WE FIND THE
CAMERAS TO BE INCREDIBLY HELPFUL
. UM AND IN TERMS OF
INVESTIGATIONS AND DETERRENCE,
AND SO IT'S OUR COMMITMENT TO
EVEN IN THE SHORT TERM, WE NEED
TO MAINTAIN THE FACILITIES THAT
WE HAVE AND HAVING THOSE
INSTALLED ARE BENEFICIAL TO THE
DEPARTMENT OVERALL. LET'S TALK A
LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE LEVEL OF
UTILITY OF THE FIXED CAMERA
TECHNOLOGY, PARTICULARLY AROUND
THE RETENTION OF VIDEO FOOTAGE
AND THE POLICY OF ONLY RETAINING
THAT VIDEO FOOTAGE FOR 90 DAYS
WE HEARD IN THE PRIOR PANEL, THE
IMPACT OF NOT ACTUALLY BEING
ABLE TO HAVE THAT IN THE SHORT
AMOUNT OF THAT RETENTION LEAD TO
AH INABILITY TO ACTUALLY BE ABLE
TO FOLLOW ANY STAFF, MISCONDUCT
ISSUES OR OTHER ISSUES OVER TIME
. HAS THERE BEEN ANY
CONSIDERATION AROUND THE LENGTH
OF RETENTION ASSOCIATED WITH
FOOTAGE? THAT CERTAINLY IS SO
RIGHT NOW THE 90 DAY POLICY. THE
90 DAY VIDEO RETENTION IS OUR
POLICY IS CONSISTENT WITH LOCAL
LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES
THROUGHOUT THE STATE AND THE
COUNTRY. UM AND I DO WANT TO
MAKE MAKE A POINT TO THE
COMMITTEE THAT IN CERTAIN CASES
THAT FOOTAGE IS ALREADY IS
AUTOMATICALLY PULLED FROM THE
SYSTEM AND SENT TO LONGSTREET.
LONG TERM STORAGE. SO ANY USE OF
FORCE ANY IF THERE'S A RIOT IF
THERE IS A TRIGGERING EVENT
THAT'S IN OUR DEPARTMENT OF
OPERATIONS MANUAL. UM I DO HAVE
SOME LIKE A IN INJURIES
SUSPICIOUS ONE YEARS ACTIVITY.
THOSE THINGS ARE AUTOMATICALLY
PULLED FROM THE CAMERA SYSTEM
AND PUT IN LONG TERM STORAGE. WE
DON'T DISPUTE THAT THE VIDEO IS
INCREDIBLY HELPFUL IN AN
INVESTIGATION. HOWEVER IT IS NOT
THE ONLY TOOL IN OUR TOOL KIT SO
WE WILL STILL AS PART DIRECTOR
MILLER INDICATED OUR NEW PROCESS
THAT WE'RE STILL IN THE IN THE
PHASED IMPLEMENTATION OF ROLLING
OUT THESE CASES WILL STILL BE
INVESTIGATED TO THE FULL EXTENT.
VIDEO IS HELPFUL. HOWEVER IN THE
VERY SMALL INSTANCES WHERE WE
DON'T HAVE VIDEO. I BELIEVE OUR
CURRENT STATISTICS SHOW THAT
ONLY 3% OF, UH STAFF ALLEGATIONS
OF STAFF MISCONDUCT VIDEO WAS
NOT AVAILABLE. SO IN 97% OF THE
CASES, WE ARE PULLING THE VIDEO
AND IT IS GETTING USED IN THIS
INVESTIGATION IN THE
INVESTIGATIONS. I JUST WANT TO
GO BACK TO THE BODY CAMERAS FOR
AN INSTANCE HAS THE CDCR
CONSIDERED DEPLOYING ADDITIONAL
BODY CAMERAS? AGAIN AFTER WE
COMPLETE THE ROLL OUT OF ALL THE
FIXED INSULIN FIXED CAMERAS. WE
WILL THEN LOOK TO CONSIDER
SUBMITTING AND DISCUSSING A
REQUEST FOR FUTURE BODY WORN.
BUT RIGHT NOW, WE PER THE COURT
ORDER. WE DEPLOYED THE BODY WORN
CAMERAS AT THE SIX FACILITIES
AND COMPLETELY ARE IN THE
PROCESS OF COMPLETING THE FIXED
ONES. IS THERE ANY OTHER REASON
BESIDES A FISCAL REASON WHY
THERE'S NOT A POSSIBILITY, TOO?
CONSIDER ROLLING OUT DIFFERENT
PHASING IN THE BODY CAMERAS AT A
DIFFERENT FACE. YOU HAVE TO BE
ABLE TO WALK AND CHEW GUM AT THE
SAME TIME, UNDERSTOOD. AND RIGHT
NOW, WE FOUND THE FIXED CAMERAS
IN TERMS OF THEIR LAYOUT AND
DEPLOYMENT THROUGHOUT THE
INSTITUTIONS TO BE, UM,
INCREDIBLY BENEFICIAL AND THAT'S
WHAT WE WOULD LIKE TO COMPLETE
BEFORE WE MOVED ON TO FUTURE
BODY WARNS, SO THERE IS A
COMPONENTS TO EACH. THEY EACH
HAVE THEIR ISSUES IN TERMS OF UM
, FACILITY LAYOUT AND GETTING
ALL OF THE APPROPRIATE EQUIPMENT
IN THE RIGHT PLACE. AND SO WE
WANT TO BE, UM, PROBABLY A
LITTLE BIT THOUGHTFUL AND HOW WE
DO THIS, AND WE DON'T WANT TO
BITE OFF MORE THAN WE CAN CHEW.
AND YOU KNOW, THIS
IMPLEMENTATION IS WHAT MAKES
SENSE FOR THE DEPARTMENT. MR
JONES. SORRY. DO YOU HAVE ANY
QUESTIONS? I JUST WANT TO JUST
MAYBE I CAN COUCH WITH WITH THE
CHAIRS JUST TRYING TO SAY, UM
MAYBE IN A DIFFERENT WAY. UM
FROM A THING OF EFFICIENCY AND
EFFECTIVENESS. UM IF YOU PUT A
BODY CAMERA ON ME I HAVE MY BODY
CAMERA. NO MATTER WHAT OTHER
FACILITY, I GO TO MY BODY AND
THE CAMERA GOES. IF YOU HAVE A
FIXED CAMERA IN A FACILITY THAT
IS CLOSED THEN THAT COST OF
THAT. GOES AWAY. I LOSE IT. BUT
I DON'T LOSE IT IF THE CAMERA
FOLLOWS ME. HOPEFULLY THEY ALL
FOR SOMEWHAT THE SAME UNITED
BUYING DIFFERENT BRANDS AND, UH
AND I THINK THAT'S WHERE WE'RE
KIND OF GETTING TO THAT. MAYBE
YOU NEED TO. YOU SHOULD HAVE
FLIPPED IT THE OTHER WAY. SO
THAT, UM THE IMPACT AND
EFFECTIVENESS OVER A LONG PERIOD
OF TIME. UM WOULD HAVE BEEN MUCH
MORE BENEFICIAL FOR THE BODY
WORN CAMERA. I JUST THINK THAT
THROUGH AND IF IT IF IT IS A
COSTING UM, LET'S TALK ABOUT THE
RADIUS THAT YOU GET THERE VERSUS
LONGEVITY. ABOUT USING THAT SAME
DOLLARS. AND BUYING, UM, CAMERAS
ON THE PERSON AND HOW MUCH
FURTHER THAT COULD TAKE YOU OVER
A 10 YEAR PERIOD, BUT EVEN PUT
IN THE USEFULNESS OF SOMETHING
OVER 10 YEARS OR FIVE YEARS. I
DON'T HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS
AT THIS TIME. THANK YOU FOR THE
DISCUSSION. BEFORE WE DO TURN TO
PUBLIC COMMENTS. I WANT TO NOTE
ONE COMMENT AND ASKED THE CDCR
FOR A WRITTEN RESPONSE TO ONE OF
THE ITEMS ON THE NON DISCUSSION
SECTION OF THIS AGENDA.
SPECIFICALLY ITEM NUMBER TWO
RELATED TO B. I S MIGRATION TO S
FOUR. HANA. UNDER STATE LAW,
CDCR IS REQUIRED TO JOIN THE
STATE'S CENTRALIZED FINANCIAL I
T SYSTEM CALLED FISCAL BY 2032.
A TRANSITION PLAN IS EXPECTED AT
THE END OF THE YEAR. THE BCP AT
THE AVAILABLE AND THE AVAILABLE
INFORMATION WE HAVE CURRENTLY IS
INSUFFICIENT TO EVALUATE WHETHER
THIS PROPOSAL IS NEEDED AT THIS
TIME. AND IT RAISES CONCERNS
WHETHER THE NECESSARY EFFORT IS
BEING PUT TOWARDS MOVING CDCR
INTO FISCAL AS SUCH, I'D LIKE TO
DEPARTMENT TO PROVIDE THE LAO
AND OUR SUBCOMMITTEE WITH THE
KEY INFORMATION REQUESTED SO WE
CAN PROPERLY EVALUATE THIS
PROPOSAL. WE LOOK FORWARD TO
GETTING THAT INFORMATION BY THE
END OF THIS MONTH. I WANT TO
THANK MY COLLEAGUES AND THE
PANELISTS FOR THE DISCUSSION
TODAY WE WILL BE REVISITING MANY
ASPECTS OF THIS CONVERSATION,
AND I'M SURE THESE SAME ISSUES
IN THE COMING MONTHS AND NOW WE
WILL MOVE TO PUBLIC COMMENT. WE
WILL START WITH ANY PUBLIC
COMMENT IN THE HEARING ROOM.
EACH PERSON WILL HAVE UP TO ONE
MINUTE FOR PUBLIC COMMENT. NEXT
WE WILL TURN TO THE PHONES. THE
PHONE NUMBER TO CONNECT IS ON
THE COMMITTEE WEBSITE AND SHOULD
BE ALSO WRITTEN ON THE SCREEN.
IF YOU'RE STREAMING THIS HEARING
, THE NUMBER IS FOR THE PUBLIC
TOLL FREE NUMBER 877692. 8957
PUBLIC ACCESS CODE IS 131543. WE
WILL TAKE PUBLIC COMMENT IN THE
ROOM FIRST. THANK YOU. HELLO AND
DANICA ROAD, ARMEL ON BEHALF OF
INITIATE JUSTICE, PROVIDING
COMMENT ON ISSUE ONE. WE ECHO
THE COMMENTS OF THE CHAIR AND
THE MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE
ALONG WITH THE L A. OH UH,
ENCOURAGING CDCR TO HAVE A CLEAR
PLAN FOR PRISON CLOSURES AND TO
INCLUDE THE LEGISLATURE AND
OTHER IMPACTED STAKEHOLDERS IN
THOSE CONVERSATIONS. WE ALSO
URGED THE STATE TO ENSURE THAT
CDCR S BUDGET DECREASES AS THE
POPULATION SHRINKS AND PRISONS
CLOSE SO THAT WE CAN INVEST THE
STATE'S MONEY IN PROGRAMS THAT
SUPPORT TRUE PUBLIC SAFETY AND
WELL BEING. THANK YOU. HELLO MY
NAME IS KEN HARTMAN. I'M TALKING
ON BEHALF OF THE TRANSFORMATIVE
IMPRISONED WORKGROUP, WHICH
REPRESENTS OVER 85 COMMUNITY
BASED ORGANIZATIONS PROVIDING
REHABILITATIVE PROGRAMMING.
PEOPLE INCARCERATED IN THE CDCR
PROVIDING COMMENT ON ISSUES 14
AND FIVE AS SOMEONE WHO SERVED
MORE THAN 38 YEARS WHILE
SENTENCED TO A LIFE SENTENCE. I
REALLY DO APPRECIATE THE
COMMENTS OF SECRETARY MCCUMBER
ON THE IMPORTANCE OF CONSIDERING
THE WELL BEING OF THE LIVES OF
THE HUMAN BEINGS HELD IN THE
PRISONS. SIMILARLY AS SOMEONE
WHO BENEFITED FROM MANY
COMMUNITY BASED REHABILITATIVE
PROGRAMS, I FEEL COMPELLED TO
POINT OUT THAT THESE VITAL
PROGRAMS CURRENTLY RECEIVE LESS
THAN ONE HALF OF 1% OF CDCS CTR
IS MORE THAN $14 BILLION BUDGET.
WE URGE THE STATE TO INVEST AT
LEAST 1% OF CDCR S BUDGET ON
THESE PROGRAMS. WE ALSO WANT TO
NOTE THE COMMUNITY BASED
ORGANIZATIONS ARE THE ONLY
SOURCE OF RESTORATIVE JUSTICE
AND HEALING PROGRAMS WITHIN THE
PRISON SYSTEM. URGED THE
LEGISLATURE TO REJECT PROPOSALS
FOR NON ESSENTIAL INFRASTRUCTURE
PROJECTS UNTIL CDCR PROVIDES A
CLEAR PRISON CLOSURE PLAN TO
INVEST THE STATE TO ENSURE THAT
THE STATE DOES NOT INVEST MONEY
INTO PRISONS THAT MAY BE CLOSED
IN THE NEXT FEW YEARS.
SPECIFICALLY, WE ENCOURAGE THE
LEGISLATURE TO REJECT THE
PROPOSAL TO INSTALL AUDIO VISUAL
SURVEILLANCE SYSTEMS AT ALL
REMAINING PRISONS INSTEAD SHIFT
SOME OF THOSE FUNDS TO SUPPORT
CRUCIAL COMMUNITY BASED
ORGANIZATIONS. FINALLY AS
REGARDS FUNDING ISSUES FOR THE
CALIFORNIA REHABILITATIVE
OVERSIGHT REHABILITATION
OVERSIGHT BOARD. I'D LIKE TO
SUGGEST THAT COMMUNITY BASED
ORGANIZATIONS AND FORMERLY
INCARCERATED PEOPLE HAVE A SEAT
AT THE TABLE AND THESE DECISION
MAKING PROCESSES. THANK YOU.
THANK YOU. ALMOST TO THE PHONE
LINES NOW. GENTLEMEN, IF YOU'D
LIKE TO MAKE A PUBLIC COMMENT,
YOU MAY PRESS 10 AT THIS TIME.
WE'VE GOT TO OUR FIRST LINE
LINE. 13, PLEASE GO AHEAD. HI MY
NAME IS BRIAN. VERY I'M A
RESIDENT OF LOS ANGELES AND ALSO
REMEMBER THE L. A CHAPTER. IT'S
CRITICAL RESISTANCE. UH FIRST
THANK YOU TO ALL THE COMMITTEE
MEMBERS, FOR ALL THE IMPORTANT
QUESTIONS RAISED REGARDING
ISSUES ONE AND FOUR. I WANT TO
ADD MY VOICE TO THOSE WHO WILL
BE URGING THE COMMITTEE TO
REQUIRE CDCR TO PROVIDE A
CONCRETE PRISON CLOSURE,
PLANNING TO HOLD ANY
INFRASTRUCTURE RELATED
ALLOCATIONS, INCLUDING THE A B S
S SYSTEM. IN THE BUDGET UNTIL
THAT PLAN IS SUBJECTED TO PUBLIC
SCRUTINY AND APPROVED ANY VIABLE
CLOSURE PLAN NEEDS TO
INCORPORATE A PLAN TO REPURPOSE
PRISONS BRACES THAT BENEFIT THE
COMMUNITIES ARE LOCATED IN FOR
THIS REASON, I FIND IT A REAL
SOURCE OF CONCERN THAT AMONG THE
PRESENT SELECTED FOR CLOSURE OF
PRESIDENT THAT HOLD FUNCTIONS
LIKE WATER TREATMENT OF SEWAGE,
AS IN THE CASE OF C, C C OR
CHECK KALALA. FUNCTIONS THAT
OTHER PRISONS RELY UPON
COMPLICATING THE CLOSURE PROCESS
, GIVEN THE CDCR IS BACKUP
TRANSPARENCY REGARDING A
SELECTION PROCESS, WHICH
ASSEMBLYMEMBER'S JOAN SOYA
POINTED OUT, IT HAS MAINTAINED
FOR AT LEAST 10 YEARS. IT'S
DIFFICULT NOT TO SUSPECT THAT
THERE IS AN UNSPOKEN STRATEGY OF
STALLING FORECLOSURE, WARM
SHUTDOWNS, USE UP PUBLIC
RESOURCES AND PREVENT IMPOSING
OBSTACLE TO LOCAL DEVELOPMENT.
AGAIN THE L. A REPORTS THAT THE
COST OF OPERATING DVD FOR
EXAMPLE ONE SHUTDOWN IS 2.2
MILLION PER YEAR INDEFINITELY SO
ACROSS THE COUNTRY. COMMUNITIES
HAVE REPURPOSED PRESENTS TO
BECOME EVERYTHING FROM FARM
INTERPRETERS TO MOVIE PRODUCTION
STUDIOS TO COMMUNITY CENTERS,
PROVIDING INFRASTRUCTURE FOR
REAL COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT. NO,
THANK YOU. NEXT WE'LL GO TO LINE
19, PLEASE GO AHEAD. HI MY NAME
IS RISA BERGERSEN. AND I'M, A
CAMPAIGN MANAGER AT THE L. A.
BAKER CENTER FOR HUMAN RIGHTS.
I'M ALSO A MEMBER OF CRITICAL
RESISTANCE. OAKLAND I'M HERE TO
SPEAK ABOUT ISSUE ONE PRISON
POPULATION PROJECTIONS AND
PRISON CLOSURES. I WANT TO THANK
THIS COMMITTEE FOR YOUR ATTEMPTS
YEAR AFTER YEAR TO HAVE CDCR
PRODUCED A LONG TERM PLAN FOR
PRISON INFRASTRUCTURE AND
CONSOLIDATION. AS THE CHAIR
ASSEMBLYMEMBER'S BONTA POINTED
OUT, CDCR FAILURE TO PRODUCE
THIS PLAN HAS RESULTED IN OUR
STATE WASTING BILLIONS OF
DOLLARS ON UNNECESSARY REPAIRS
AT PRISONS THAT WERE ULTIMATELY
NAMED FOR CLOSURE BETWEEN 2017
AND 2020. CR SPENT APPROXIMATELY
$90 MILLION AT THE V I, P AND C
C C ON REPAIRS AND UPGRADES
BEFORE THE GOVERNOR ULTIMATELY
NAMED THESE PRISONS FOR CLOSURE
AS A. CHAIR. BONZO ALSO POINTED
OUT THAT THE CONTRADICTION OF
CDCR WARM SHUTDOWN. CDCR IS
CURRENTLY OPERATING SEVERAL POST
FACILITIES IN THIS WARM SHUTDOWN
MODE, COSTING THE STATE AND
PACKED YEARS MILLIONS EACH YEAR
TO KEEP THE LIGHTS ON. WATER
RUNNING AND STAFF EMPLOYED ALL
EMPTY FACILITIES. WE NEED FULL
PRISON CLOSURES. WE NEED CDCR TO
ADOPT A COMPREHENSIVE COMMUNITY
INFORMED A ROADMAP THAT ENSURES
PRISON CLOSURES AND REFLECTS THE
REALITY OF SIGNIFICANT
POPULATION REDUCTIONS. THANK YOU
SO MUCH. NEXT WE GO TO LINE 15,
PLEASE GO AHEAD. CHAIR MEMBERS.
MORE SECURITY IN CALIFORNIA,
KEEPING IN RESORTS TO ISSUE
NUMBER ONE ENCLOSURES. CHANCES
WORKS WITH ELLIOT ANALYSIS THAT
SHOWS UP AS AN ADDITIONAL FIVE
PRESIDENTS BY 2027 STATE AROUND
$1 BILLION. AND 27 GENIUS. IT IS
TO REPORT THAT DETAILED STATE IS
CLOSED BY PRISONS AND SAVE
HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS.
YES THERE WE ARE. SIX YEARS
LATER DIFFICULT TO PRISONS AND
ARE LOOKING FORWARD TO CLOSING
SEVEN MORE BY 2027. CANADA'S AT
THE STREET PRESENCE AND
IMMEDIATELY BEGAN PLANNING FOR
THE CLOSURES AND, MOST
IMPORTANTLY, BE PREPARED TO
INVESTMENT MACHINES, GIVING
RESOURCES THAT ALLOW COMMUNITIES
TO FEEL SUPPORTED DRIVING. THEY
THANK YOU. NEXT WE GO TO LINE 17
GO AHEAD. OKAY? THANK YOU VERY
MUCH. THIS IS BRIAN CAÑADA, THE
DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF CALIFORNIA
UNITED FOR A RESPONSIBLE BUDGET
. I'M A RESIDENT OF LOS ANGELES
. AND I'M GOING TO SPEAK ON
AGENDA. ITEM ONE. I'D LIKE TO
THANK THE COMMITTEE FOR THEIR
VITAL QUESTIONS ON THE ISSUE OF
PRISON CLOSURE AS CDCR CONTINUES
TO STONEWALL IN ALL OTHER
PRESENTATIONS TODAY, DID
ANYTHING THIS COMMITTEE HERE
INSPIRE CONFIDENCE THAT CDCR
DOESN'T REQUIRE GREATER
OVERSIGHT AND DIRECTION ON THIS
ISSUE, AND MANY OTHERS. PRISON
POPULATIONS GO DOWN AND PRISON
SPENDING GOES UP. THE ELIO
REPORT IS CLEAR. CDCR DOESN'T
HAVE A CLEAR PLAN TO CLOSE
ADDITIONAL PRISON, WHICH COULD
COST THE STATE HUNDREDS OF
MILLIONS OF DOLLARS AS WE FACE
THE POTENTIAL $24 BILLION
DEFICIT. ASSEMBLYMEMBER'S HEART
SHARED. THESE CONVERSATIONS ARE
NOT NEW. THEY HAPPEN EVERY YEAR
. NOTHING HAS EVER DONE. I AM
EMPLOYING EMPLOYING THIS
COMMITTEE. WE HAVE TO HAVE AN
ADVANCEMENT OF THIS CONVERSATION
WITHOUT A ROAD MAP TO CLOSE
CALIFORNIA PRISON STATE RISKS
INVESTING UNTOLD RESOURCES IN
PRISONS THAT MAYBE SOON
SHUTTERED. THANK YOU. NEXT WE'LL
GO TO LINE 16, PLEASE GO AHEAD.
CHAIR AND ASSEMBLYMEMBER'S OF
THE COMMITTEE. MY NAME IS HANNAH
KLIGER. I'M A RESIDENT OF LOS
ANGELES. AND I'M A POLICY
ASSISTANT CALIFORNIANS UNITED
FOR A RESPONSIBLE BUDGET WILL BE
SPEAKING TO ISSUE NUMBER ONE, UM
, ON PRISON POPULATION
PROJECTIONS AND PRISON CLOSURES
. ER HAS FAILED TO JUSTIFY THE
15,000 BEDS AND INTENDS TO KEEP
OPERATING FOR THE 23 20. FOR
BUDGET CYCLE AND IT DOES NOT
HAVE A PLAN FOR ADDITIONAL
CAPACITY REDUCTIONS DESPITE THE
PROJECTED NUMBER OF EMPTY BEDS
ESTIMATED TO REACH 20,000 BY
2027. CDCR ITSELF. HAS PROJECTED
A DECLINE IN THE PRISON
POPULATION AND THEY HAVE
AFFIRMED THERE HAVE BEEN
POSITIVE OUTCOMES FROM RECENT
PRISON AND YARDY ACTIVATIONS
LIKE MILLIONS AND ANNUAL COST
SAVINGS, AS WELL AS AVOIDANCE OF
INFRASTRUCTURE REPAIR COSTS.
MAKE NO MISTAKE WE CAN CLOSE
FULL PRISON, NOT JUST MORE
PRESENT YARDS. OR COMMUNITY
MEMBERS AND YARDS BEING FOR
CLOSURE HAVE DESCRIBED THE
ACTIVATION OF SHORT TERM
SOLUTIONS THAT MOVE PEOPLE FROM
PRISON TO PRISON BENEFITS, CEO
EMPLOYMENT AND HARM PEOPLE IN
THE SIDE BASED ON T V. C. R S
OWN NUMBERS. THERE IS NO
JUSTIFICATION FOR C V. C. R TO A
INCREASE ITS BUDGET OR BE NOT
CLOSE MORE PRISONS. ADOPTING A
COMPREHENSIVE COMMUNITY INFORMED
ROADMAP AND ENSURES SAFE AND
INTENTIONAL CLOSURES, AND THAT
INCLUDES RELEASES AND LABOR AND
ECONOMIC SOLUTIONS FOR ALL
PEOPLE INFECTED BY INCARCERATION
WOULD HEIGHTEN USE POSITIVE
IMPACT OF PRISON CLOSURES FOR
ALL CALIFORNIA VCRS BUDGET MUST
BE REDUCED. THANK YOU. NEXT WE
GO TO LINE 21, PLEASE GO AHEAD.
HI MY NAME IS OLIVIA GLEASON.
I'M A RESIDENT OF LONG BEACH,
CALIFORNIA AND I'M CALLING IN
WITH CALIFORNIANS UNITED FOR A
RESPONSIBLE BUDGET CURB. UM, I'M
A COMMUNICATIONS ASSISTANT, AND
I'M CALLING IN SUPPORT OF ISSUE
ITEM ONE. I AGREE THAT WE MUST
ENSURE PRISON CLOSURES ARE DONE
SAFELY AND THOUGHTFULLY. WHILE
THERE MAY BE UNIQUE FACTORS
APPARENT SPECIFIC PRISON
CLOSURES A LONG TERM COMMUNITY
INFORMED PLAN FOR PRISON CLOSURE
WOULD MITIGATE THE ISSUES
CURRENTLY GOING ON AS A RESULT
OF CDCR DISORGANIZED PRISON
CLOSURE PROCESS. COMMUNITY
MEMBERS CURRENTLY INCARCERATED
HAVE REPORTED A CULTURE OF
CARELESSNESS, HARM AND
IRRESPONSIBILITY WHEN IT COMES
TO THE PRISON CLOSURE AND
TRANSFER PROCESSES CDCR
CURRENTLY UNDERGOES. THE IDEA
THAT CDCR CENTERING SICK,
DISABLED AND ELDERLY FOLKS IN
THEIR PRISON CLOSURES. SELECTION
IS NOT SUPPORTED BY THE
EVIDENCE. PEOPLE ARE NOT GETTING
WELL THEMSELVES. A ROADMAP FOR
PRISON CLOSURE WOULD ENSURE THAT
PRISON CLOSURES ARE DONE SAFELY
THAT RELEASES ARE PRIORITIZING
POSSIBLE, UM, BUT THAT IF PEOPLE
ARE TRANSFERRED, THEY ARE DONE
SO SAFELY AND IN A WAY WHERE
THEY'RE MOVED CLOSER TO THEIR
LOVED ONES. AND IT WOULD ENSURE
FUNDS FROM PRISONS ARE
REINVESTED IN COMMUNITIES AND
ECONOMIES IMPACTED BY
INCARCERATION, AND THAT PRISONS
ARE REPURPOSED AND INCARCERATE
ALWAYS THAT BENEFIT LOCAL
COMMUNITIES. PRISON CLOSURE IS
NOT INHERENTLY UNSAFE. IT ONLY
WILL BE SO IF CDCR CONTINUES TO
OPERATE WITHOUT A PLAN. THANK
YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME. AND
THIS TIME THERE'S NO OTHER
THING. QUÊ. THANK YOU WITH THAT
WE WILL ADJOURN THE ASSEMBLY
BUDGET SUBCOMMITTEE NUMBER FIVE
ON PUBLIC SAFETY.