ASSEMBLY
ALL
COLLECT ARE INCREASING REGIONAL
CONTEXT MANY ORGANIZATIONS
LEADING THE WAY IN DEVELOPING
WEB THREE FIVE FOUR FOR NOW
DECENTRALIZED SYSTEM IS OF
NO RESTITUTION PUSH OF USING
IT FOR THE HOTEL TECH EXPERTS
FORECAST THAT WITHIN THE NEXT
TWO DECADES WATCHING TECHNOLOGY
ALSO REFERRED TO AS WELL READ
WILL BE ESSENTIAL TO MOST
TECH COMPANIES WILL BE ABLE TO
BRING IN ALMOST ALL INDUSTRIES
BECAUSE OF A LACK OF UP THERE
WE GO A LACK OF LEGAL CLARITY
AND OPAQUE US REGULATIONS MANY
NEW DETAILS ARE INCREASING
OUR CORPORATION OFFSHORE OTHER
STATES LIKE UTAH WYOMING AND
VERMONT HAVE CREATED LEGAL
FRAMEWORKS VIDEOS IN AN ATTEMPT
TO ENTICE BLOCKCHAIN BASED
COMPANIES TO BRING THEIR TECH
BUSINESSES OUT OF CALIFORNIA
BUT THE MOST IMPORTANT THINGS
THAT WE CAN DO HERE IN OUR
STATE TO ENSURE THAT THE NEXT
GENERATION OF NEW COMPANIES
STILL VIEW CALIFORNIA AS A
PLACE TO COME AND INNOVATE AND
BUILD NEW BUSINESSES IS INSURE
THAT OUR LAWS KEEP UP WITH THE
TIMES AB TWELVE TWENTY ONE AND
CREATE A LEGAL FRAMEWORK TO
REGULATE TAX AND FOREIGN DEOS
IN CALIFORNIA AND SEND A STRONG
SIGNAL THAT CALIFORNIA INTENDS
TO STAY AT THE FOREFRONT OF THE
INNOVATION TECHNOLOGY -- TECH
INNOVATION ECONOMY THIS BILL
MAKES CHANGES TO THE STATE'S
CORPORATIONS COLD BY UPDATING
THE CALIFORNIA UNINCORPORATED
ASSOCIATION LAW TO INCLUDE
TECHNOLOGY ENABLE DEOS
BLOCKCHAIN NETWORKS AND SMART
CONTRACT PROTOCOLS ALLOWING
DEOS INTO INCORPORATING
CALIFORNIA PAY TAXES AND
OPERATE WITHIN PROPER LEGAL
PARAMETERS WHEN SURE BETTER
PROTECTIONS FOR CALIFORNIANS
PARTICIPATING IN CRYPTO ON WEB
THREE ACADEMY ONE COURAGE IN
THE FORMATION OF LEGITIMATE
BUSINESSES AND ENTERPRISES HERE
TO TESTIFY WITH ME IN SUPPORT
TODAY ARE STEVEN STANDS WERE
AND DAVID KERR WHO WORKED
WHO ARE TECHNICAL AT EXPERTS
FROM EIGHT SIXTEEN Z.
WHO ARE WHO IS ONE OF THE
COUNTRY'S LEADING VENTURE
CAPITAL FIRMS INVESTING IN
EMERGENCY TECHNOLOGY EMERGING
TECHNOLOGIES GOOD AFTERNOON
MR CHAIRMAN VERSE HI MY NAME'S
STEVEN SANDLER WITH BROWN
STAIN ON BEHALF OF THE SPONSOR
A SIXTEEN SEE THEIR PROUD TO
SPONSOR ASSEMBLY BILL TWELVE
TWENTY NINE WHICH WILL CREATE
A CATEGORY WITHIN THE EXISTING
CALIFORNIA UNINCORPORATED
NONPROFIT ASSOCIATION
STATUTE THAT'S APPROPRIATE
FOR DECENTRALIZED OPERATIONS
OF BLOCKCHAIN NETWORKS AND
SMART CONTRACT PROTOCOLS MANY
STATES ARE ENTHUSIASTIC ABOUT
SUPPORTING DECENTRALIZATION
ARE ACTIVELY LOOKING TO
IMPLEMENT LEGAL ENTITY FORMS
OF SUPPORT THE DEVELOPMENT OF
WEB THREE UNFORTUNATELY MANY
LEGAL ENTITY STRUCTURES ARE
FUNDAMENTALLY INCOMPATIBLE WITH
DALLAS DECENTRALIZED AUTONOMOUS
ORGANIZATIONS PRIMARILY
BECAUSE THEY'RE PREDICATED ON
CENTRALIZED GOVERNANCE HOWEVER
EVEN APPROPRIATE STRUCTURES
LIKE CALIFORNIA'S EXISTING ONE
A LOT DO NOT PROVIDE ENOUGH
CERTAINTY FOR THOSE STATUES
TO BE USED BY DALLAS ABSENT
ADDITIONAL STATE GUIDANCE AS
A RESULT OF THESE CHALLENGES
STATES ARE MISSING OUT ON
THE OPPORTUNITY TO SHAPE THE
DEVELOPMENT OF THE FUTURE OF
THE INTERNET AB TALK TRAIN I
WILL CREATE A CATEGORY WITHIN
THE EXISTING CALIFORNIA ANOTHER
STATUTES FOR DECENTRALIZED
NONPROFIT ASSOCIATIONS OR DNA
IS WHICH ALLOWS FOR A MORE
TARGETED STATUTORY REQUIREMENTS
AND CLARITY AND APPLICATION
EVEN THOUGH DOLLARS ARE WIDELY
REFERENCED IN DESCRIBING
THE NEED FOR THIS LAW IN THE
DRIVE THE INTO THE INTENT
BEHIND IT THE DNA IS WRITTEN
AS TECHNOLOGICALLY AGNOSTIC
TO ACCOMMODATE POTENTIAL
CHANGES IN TECHNOLOGY THAT
COULD PRODUCE NEW TYPES OF
ORGANIZATIONS IN THE FUTURE
PROVIDING REGULATORY CLARITY
IN THE SPACE WILL SEND A STRONG
SIGNAL THE CALIFORNIA INTENDS
TO STAY AT THE FOREFRONT
OF THE INNOVATION ECONOMY
FOR THESE REASONS A.
SIXTEEN Z.
IS PROUD SPONSOR
THIS LEGISLATION
NEXT HI MY NAME'S DAVID KERR
AS IF THIS ONE ON IT SHOULD BE
OKAY BOB MY NAME'S DAVID KERR
I AM -- A CONSULTING THE SPACE
ON THE HEAD OF RESEARCH FOR
THE DOW RESEARCH COLLECTIVE I
HAVE MY OWN CONSULTING COMPANY
CALLED CALORIE OF A MEMBER OF
THE WORLD AFTER TOMIC -- WORLD
ECONOMIC FORUM'S COMMISSION ON
DOW'S AND I'M ALSO A CONSULTANT
WHO WORKS CLOSELY WITH A.
SIXTEEN Z.
ON THE PUBLICATION OF
TECHNICAL MEMORANDUM IN THE
FIELD OF ENTITY STRUCTURING
SO THE GENERAL COUNSEL OF
MILES JENNINGS AND I HAVE
BEEN A SERIES OF PAPER ON
UNINCORPORATED NONPROFIT
ASSOCIATIONS GENERALLY AND
LEGAL EXISTENCE AND ANY
STRUCTURE IN THE UNITED STATES
OUR WHICH IN MANY WAYS IS
REALLY A SUMMARY OF TAXATION
-- AND SO THE PURPOSE OF
A KIND OF THIS HEARING TO
PROVIDE -- QUESTIONS OR TO
ANSWER QUESTIONS AND RELATED
TO THE THAT THE CALIFORNIA
PROVISIONS ARE TO EXPLAIN HOW
THE EXISTING CALIFORNIA LAW
IS BEING HONORED AND HOW IT
THE THE PROPOSAL LANGUAGE --
FOLLOWS VERY CLOSELY TO THE
TWO THOUSAND FOUR AND TWO
THOUSAND FIVE LEGISLATION
THAT FOLLOWED A CALIFORNIA
LAW REVIEW COMMISSION'S REPORT
ON HOW IN ON A CORPORATE
NONPROFIT ASSOCIATION SHOULD
BECOME CALIFORNIA LAW HOW
IT SHOULD BE PRESENTED HOW
IT WAS PRESENTED DECISIONS
THAT WERE MADE COMPARED TO BE
POSSIBLY ADOPTING THE UNIFORM
ACT WHICH CALIFORNIA DID NOT
DO AND SO IT -- THIS BILL
AS WRITTEN VERY MUCH IN LINE
WITH THE PARTICULAR STYLE
AND INTENT OF CALIFORNIA'S
ON A CORPORATE NONPROFIT
ASSOCIATION LAWS THANK YOU
VERY MUCH FOR THAT TESTIMONY
AND NOW I WOULD LIKE TO TURN
TO -- ANY OTHER WITNESSES IN
SUPPORT THAT ARE IN THE HEARING
ROOM PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME
ORGANIZATION AND POSITION
MR CHAIRMAN MEMBERS ARE JUST
AROUND THIS ON BEHALF OF THE
CRYPTO COUNCIL FOR INNOVATION
AND SUPPORT THANK YOU
GOOD AFTERNOON LARISSA SAYS
TODAY'S HERE ON BEHALF OF
THE BLOCKCHAIN ADVOCACY
COALITION IN SUPPORT I
SEE NO OTHER WITNESSES AND
SUPPORT WE WILL NOW MOVE
TO WITNESSES IN OPPOSITION
NO REGISTERED OPPOSITION
ANY OPPOSITION IN THE ROOM
SEEING NO OPPOSITION WE
WILL GO TO THE COMMITTEE
FOR QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS
SURE
OKAY COULD YOU CLARIFY WHAT
AMENDMENTS YOU HAVE ACCEPTED
NO NO NO NO MAN'S OKAY SO
OKAY QUESTION NUMBER TWO OUR
ARE THERE A ISSUE SAID THIS
BILL THAN FLOOD PROPOSAL WOULD
BE THE RULES OF ORGANIZATION
BYLAWS RULES OF PROCEDURE WE
HAVE ALL BEEN MAYOR EXISTING
LAW SAYS OR ANYTHING THAT
DOES NOT A MERE EXISTING LAW
YES THERE WAS A IT'S JUST A
LANGUAGE PUT AROUND VENUE TO
CLARIFY HOW CAN YOU COULD BE
TREATED IN A SITUATION TO A
DNA THE TYPE OF ORGANIZATION
WOULD USE THIS THERE'S ALSO
THE CONSIDERATION OF AMENDMENTS
FOR JURISDICTIONAL REQUIREMENTS
FOR NOT NECESSARILY HAVING
A PHYSICAL OFFICE -- WHICH
IS AN EXISTING AND SOLVED
ISSUE RELATED TO EXISTING
CALIFORNIA CRIMINAL LAW BUT
THERE WAS A CONSIDERATION
THAT POSSIBLY AMENDMENT INTO
PLACE WOULD PROVIDE MORE
CLARITY ON THAT POINT THERE'S
ALSO AN AMENDMENT WHERE WE
WOULD LIKE TO CHANGE ONE OF
THE DEFINITIONS -- FOR JUST A
SMALL CHANGE TWENTY ADDITIONS
-- TO THE -- DEFINITIONS THAT
WE HAVE PROVIDED AND THAT'S
THE EXISTING AMENDED --
POSSIBILITIES FOR RIGHT NOW I
SEE AND COULD YOU CLARIFY WHAT
THE VOTING REQUIREMENTS WOULD
BE WITHIN THE ORGANIZATION
YES SO THE AS AT A BASELINE
IT WOULD FALL IT WOULD REVERT
TO FIFTY PERCENT IN ORDER
TO NORMAL QUORUM NOW WHAT IT
DOES DO IS THE LAW PROVIDES
FOR A THE GENERAL -- FOR THE
GOVERNING PRINCIPLES TO BE MET
THROUGHOUT MUCH OF DECISION
MAKING AND SMART CONTRACTS
AND SO WHAT THAT ESSENTIALLY
MEANS IS THE MEMBERS OF THESE
ORGANIZATIONS WOULD BE ABLE
TO PERFORM THEIR VOTES THROUGH
THE BLOCKCHAIN UTILIZING THIS
TECHNOLOGY AND THAT WOULD BE AN
ACCEPTABLE FORM OF VOTE AND SO
AS LONG AS THOSE VOTES FOLLOWED
THE RULES AND AT THAT POINT
THE GOVERNING PRINCIPLES CAN
BE WRITTEN BY CONTRACT BY WHAT
THE MEMBERS WANT TO BE SUCH
A GREAT DEAL OF FLEXIBILITY
AS THE DEFAULT WOULD BE THE
FIFTY PERCENT QUORUM -- WHAT
WOULD BE THE QUORUM AND FIFTY
ONE PERCENT BUT OBVIOUSLY THEY
CAN CONTRACT TO WHATEVER THEY
WANT GOVERNMENTS TO BE AND
THAT THOSE PASSED GOVERNING --
PROPOSALS WOULD ALSO BE PART
OF THE GOVERNING PRINCIPLES
FOR THE ORGANIZATIONS OKAY
THANK YOU VERY MUCH SOME OF
THE RIVER BACKING HEY I'M SO I
GUESS I'LL START WITH THE GAO'S
WHICH -- YOU KNOW I HEAR WHAT
YOU'RE TRYING WOULD YOU SAY
ABOUT US -- ENSURING CONTINUED
INNOVATION CALIFORNIA IN THE
ABILITY FOR FOLKS TO OPERATE
HERE WHICH WE SHOULD ALWAYS
BE TRYING TO DO BUT NEVER AT
THE EXPENSE OF GOOD GOVERNANCE
I THINK SO I GUESS I WANT TO
START BY ASKING YOU TO RESPOND
TO WHAT WAS RAISED IN THE
ANALYSIS REGARDING I MEAN THE
FEDERAL GOVERNMENT'S REALLY
COMING DOWN ON THE IS RIGHT
THERE I'M SURE MANY GOOD ACTORS
IN THE SPACE BUT NOT ALL RIGHT
SO YOU KNOW GIVEN THAT THE
ABILITY TO CONTINUE OPERATING
THIS WAY THAT ALLOWS ANONYMITY
AND I UNDERSTAND THE BLOCKCHAIN
AND HOW MUCH TRANSPARENCY
THERE IS A NOT FRAMEWORK IF
YOU WILL OR PUT THEM IN THE
BLOCKCHAIN -- I GUESS WE
ADDRESS THAT I'M CONCERNED
ABOUT YEAH I WOULD CHARACTERIZE
THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT'S --
ENFORCEMENT ACTIONS TO BE
AGAINST CRYPTO GENERALLY AND
VERY FEW HAVE BEEN AGAINST
THAT DOUSE THEMSELVES -- THE
ONLY ONE I CAN REALLY THINK OF
THAT'S DOUBTS SPECIFIC WOULD BE
THE KEY DOW THE B.
Y.
X.
-- CFTC CASES COMING DOWN
FOR CALIFORNIA RIGHT NOW
OVER THE ENTITY FOR BEING AN
UNINCORPORATED ASSOCIATION
-- WHICH IS NOT TO SAY THAT
THERE'S NOT OBVIOUSLY ISSUES
WITH THE TREATMENT OF CRYPTO
THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AND AND
AND ALL OF THESE THINGS AT THE
END OF THE DAY -- ORGANIZATIONS
ARE ABLE TO FORM AROUND YOU
KNOW A VARIETY PURPOSES AND
A DOW I THINK YOU ASKED TO
TO KIND OF ANSWER IN RESPONSE
TO THE REPORTS CRITICISM OF
DOUBTS I THINK ONE OF THINGS
IS REALLY IMPORTANT TO REALIZE
THAT THE DOW IS NOT A TERM OF
ART AND CAN MEAN ANY NUMBER
OF ORGANIZATIONS THIS BILL
IS WRITTEN VERY SPECIFICALLY
-- FOR THE TECHNOLOGICAL
INTERSECTION BETWEEN PROTOCOL
-- OPERATIONS THAT EXIST ON
THE BLOCKCHAIN BUT IS NOT
LIMITED TO THE BLOCKCHAIN
AND LAWS THAT WERE WRITTEN --
WELL BEFORE THAT TECHNOLOGY
EXISTED AND SO I WOULDN'T
NECESSARILY CLASSIFY THIS --
AS TECH THERE'S A LIMITING
FORM OF OF OF LEGAL TREATMENT
IN THESE ORGANIZATIONS --
AND IN IN THE POINT OF ALL OF
THAT IS TO SAY THIS LAW EXIST
FOR VERY NARROWLY CARVED OUT
-- EXISTING LAW TO PROVIDE
A PATH FOR ENTITY STRUCTURE
FOR A FORM OF TECHNOLOGY
THAT WOULD BE BENEFICIAL TO
CALIFORNIA TO THE U.
S.
TO HAVE IT BE PART OF OUR
TAX CODE AND GIVE A CLARITY
AND WHAT ITS ENTITY FORM
SHOULD BE SO I GUESS THAT
MEANS USING HIS M.
THE THE OTHER WITNESS WAS
TALKING ABOUT HOW IT'S BROAD
TO DEAL WITH INNOVATION IN THE
FUTURE WHICH I CONCUR WITH I
THINK THE BILL IS INCREDIBLY
BROAD MY CONCERN TO BE FRANK
WITH YOU IS ACTUALLY THAT IT'S
NOT AS NEARLY RENEWS YOU JUST
DESCRIBE IT I CAN IMAGINE A
TON OF EL ELSE PEOPLE WHO ARE
NOW ALL SEASON TO BE CLEAR
WHEN WE ALLOW ENTITIES TO FORM
RATE WE ALLOW PEOPLE TO FORM
ENTITIES -- TO PROTECT THEM
FROM LIABILITY THAT IS WHAT
THESE ENTITIES DO FUNDAMENTALLY
WE ALSO ALLOW IN THE LAW
MOSTLY CASE LAW FOR PIERCING
OF THE CORPORATE VEIL RIGHT
WE ALLOW FOR SITUATIONS WHERE
YOU'VE CREATED AND YOU PROTECT
YOURSELF FROM LIABILITY BUT THE
ENTITIES FOX RATED REALLY IS
THE LIABILITY SHOULD FALL IN
THE INDIVIDUALS -- AND WE DO
THAT ARE AND THE COURTS HAVE
DONE THAT BECAUSE WE WANT TO
MAKE SURE THAT THERE IS PROPER
LIABILITY SO I GUESS MY CONCERN
HERE IS THAT I THINK THIS IS
INCREDIBLY BROAD AND I THINK IT
WILL ALLOW FOR INDIVIDUALS TO
BE ANONYMOUS AND TO ALLOW FOR
ENTITIES WHERE YOU DON'T KNOW
WHO THOSE INDIVIDUALS ARE THAT
ARE PART OF THESE DECENTRALIZED
NONPROFIT ASSOCIATIONS THAT TO
BE FRANK CAN BE ANYONE WHO'S
OVER A HUNDRED MEMBERS AND
THEY CAN BE MAKING A PROFIT
AS LONG AS THEY DISTRIBUTE
THAT PROFIT I MEAN THAT SEEMS
BOUNDLESS SAFETY USE YOU
KNOW IT DOES SAY YOU HAVE TO
USE BLOCKCHAIN OR OTHER JUST
RELIGION TECHNOLOGY BUT I
DON'T KNOW THAT I THINK THAT'S
AN INCREDIBLY LIMITING FACTOR
AND HOW THIS WILL WORK AND I
THINK THERE'S SERIOUS CONCERN
ON MY PART THAT IN ANYBODY
COULD LEAD TO IN THE FIRST THE
MOST DIRECT INSTANCE TAX FRAUD
WE DON'T KNOW WHO IT IS IT'S
GETTING THESE PROFITS BECAUSE
IT'S ALL ANONYMOUS BUT I GUESS
WE KNOW THAT THEY'RE OUT THERE
BECAUSE THE BLOCKCHAIN AND THEN
BEYOND THAT JUST THE ABILITY
TO ENSURE LIABILITIES CORRECTLY
APPROPRIATED AND SO I I SEE
WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO IN THE
DOW INSTANCE I THINK CREATING
THIS ENTIRE EXCEPTION IN THE
NONPROFIT CONTACTS AGAIN WHERE
YOU CAN HAVE PROFITS AS LONG
AS YOU DISTRIBUTE THEM IS
CONCERNING TO ME AND I DO THINK
THAT IT COULD LEAD TO SOME --
PEOPLE USING THIS MECHANISM
IN ORDER TO HIDE THEMSELVES
FROM LIABILITY WELL YES AND AS
YOU DESCRIBE IT THAT WOULD BE
FAIRLY TERRIFYING BUT LUCKILY
-- THAT'S NOT THAT'S NOT
QUITE HOW HOW IT'S DESIGNED
WHEN YOU WHEN YOU MENTION
THE DISTRIBUTION PROFITS IT
ACTUALLY PUTS A LIMITATION
ON BEING ABLE TO DISTRIBUTE
PROFITS IN INCOME TO MEMBERS
AND SO WHAT THAT DOES IS IT
TAKES AWAY A PERCENTAGE OF
EARNINGS BASED OFF OF OWNERSHIP
SHARE REMOVES ALL OF THAT AND
SO IT DOESN'T HAVE THE ABILITY
TO RELAY PROFITS THE WHETHER
YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT BECAUSE
IT IT'S MUCH MORE NARROW THAN
THE EXISTING NONPROFIT YOU
NOT UNDER CALIFORNIA LAW IN
THAT IT DOES PUT IT PROHIBITS
XIN ON HAVING DISTRIBUTIONS
OF PROFITS AND INCOME THAT
IS NOT HOW I READ IT I MEAN
YOU CAN STILL MAKE PROFIT AS
LONG AS YOU DISTRIBUTE THEM
IS THAT WHAT IT SAYS I CAN'T
FIND LANGUAGE EXACTLY BUT THAT
WAS MY UNDERSTANDING SWELLED
INTO NOTICE BY THAT ITS LEADER
INTEGRATED LANGUAGE AND SO
THAT YOU CAN BE A NONPROFIT AND
HAVE FOR PROFIT WHICH MEANS YOU
CAN MAKE MONEY RIGHT AND YOU
THAT'S HOW YOU FIND YOURSELF IN
HAVING A SITUATION WE BE PAYING
TAXES YOU HAVE EARNINGS AND
YOU PAY TAX ON THOSE EARNINGS
BUT YOU ARE PROHIBITED FROM
DISTRIBUTING THOSE ON A PRO
RATA SHARE TO YOUR MEMBERSHIP
AND SO IT DOESN'T OPERATE AS
A PROXY FOR STOCK IS MORE OR
LESS WELL RIGHT BUT YOU CAN
STILL DISTRIBUTE WHAT SHORT BUT
WHAT'S NICE ABOUT DISTRIBUTING
IS YOU CAN DISTRIBUTE THEM
FOR COMPENSATION RIGHT SO
IF SOMEONE WERE TO PERFORM
A SERVICE ABOUT SIX HUNDRED
DOLLARS WE ARE FILING FOR
EIGHTY THIRTY TWO ELECTION SO
THIS WILL BE TAXED TO C.
CORP AND WILL BE REQUIRED
TO FILE -- THE W.
EIGHT W.
NINE TEN NINETY NINE REPORTING
FOR ANY TRANSACTION ABOVE SIX
HUNDRED DOLLARS SO WHAT THIS
LAW GETS YOU IS COMPLIANCE WITH
THE HARM THAT YOU'RE AFRAID --
IT THAT IT DOES NOT THIS WILL
ALLOW US TO HAVE TEN NINETY
NINE REPORTING FOR THE ENTITIES
PART BUT NOT IN THE INDIVIDUALS
PART THE INDIVIDUALS WHO
RECEIVE COMPENSATION OR ANY
VALUE ABOVE IT FROM AT THAT
CITY PROVIDE THAT INFORMATION
FOR THOSE INDIVIDUALS WITH
THEIR NAMES SO THAT'S WHAT
IT'S DONE I MEAN THAT'S THE
REQUIRED BY THE LAW SO YES
I MEAN IF YOU'RE LOOKING FOR
THE PRACTICAL CONSIDER YOU
MEAN IF YOU'RE LOOKING FOR THE
PRACTICAL HOW THAT GETS THAT
THE OPERATIONS OF THAT WE CAN
GET INTO THAT HE'S BUT THERE'S
A LOT OF THIRD PARTY SERVICE
PROVIDERS THAT PROVIDE AN
OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE W.
OF AML AND KYC CHECKS DONE
ONLINE SO YOU IN ORDER TO
RECEIVE COMPENSATION FROM THESE
ENTRY FORMS THEY HAVE TO FILL
OUT THE INFORMATION -- AND
IT DOES NOT NECESSARILY GET
PROVIDED TO THE ENTITY ITSELF
BUT THERE'S A MYTH IT'S IT'S
IT'S COORDINATED WITH THE
ENTITY THERE'S A MAILING OF
TEN NINETY NINE AT YEAR END
THERE'S EIGHT ESTIMATION OF
PAYMENTS FOR WA WITHHOLDING
AND SO ALL OF THIS IS DONE
FOR A NUMEROUS ORGANIZATIONS
EXIST CURRENTLY SO HOW WOULD
THE TAXES WORK -- WETHERBY FOR
THE COVERAGE OR AN INDIVIDUAL
IS IT IS THERE IS A LIKE A TAX
SHELTER HERE NO NO NO SO SO
THAT THE ENTITY WOULD PASTY
CORPORATE WE RELAX FOR EIGHTY
EIGHT THIRTY TWO ELECTION AND
IT WOULD TO PAY TWENTY ONE
PERCENT ON CORPORATES FEDERAL
RATES ARE FOR EARNINGS LESS
EXPENSES AND THEN THERE WOULD
ALSO BE A CHARACTERIZATION OF
THE STATE TAX OBLIGATIONS FOR
FILING OF STATE TAX FORMS THIS
IS TO BRING THE ENTITY FORMS
FORWARD INTO THE LIGHT AND HAVE
THEM PAY TAX THE SOLUTION AT
HAND IS TO ADDRESS THE FEAR OF
YOU KNOW WHAT THIS LAW ISN'T
GOT IT ARE YOU WANT TO GO FOR
YEAH BECAUSE I GUESS I'M JUST
I MEAN MY UNDERSTANDING OF
WHY WE NEED THIS IS BECAUSE
THEY CAN'T FALL UNDER CURRENT
LAW RIGHT THEY WANT THE WAY
THAT DOES WANT TO OPERATE AND
THIS ISN'T A CRITICISM AND
IN THAT THE ACTUAL HUNDRED
GETS PEOPLE RIGHT HUNDRED
PEOPLE WHO GET TOGETHER AND
CREATE THESE DOUBTS WANT TO
HAVE ANONYMITY RIGHT I MEAN
THAT IS MY UNDERSTANDING OF
MY GETTING THAT WRONG I'M
TRYING TO UNDERSTAND A THOUSAND
NEW TO ME I MEAN FOR TIGERS
AND LIABILITY I THINK ONE OF
THINGS THAT WE SHOULD PROBABLY
REVERSES WHEN WE'RE DEALING
WITH THE BLOCKCHAIN THAT
TRANSACTION GOES ONLINE SO
IF WE ALSO PROVIDED WHO THAT
TRANSACTION PERTAIN TO IT BE
LIKE BEING INSIDE SOMEONE'S
BANK ACCOUNT HAVING ACCESS TO
EVERYTHING RIGHT AND SO ONE OF
THE AREAS THAT WE'RE LOOKING
FOR IS A STEP FORWARD AND HOW
WE EFFECTIVELY AND INCREDIBLY
LEGISLATE ON THIS ISSUE IS
WHAT LAWS AND REGULATIONS ARE
IMPORTANT FOR KEEPING HARM FROM
OCCURRING THIS LAW PROVIDES
A PATH TO MAKE SURE THAT THE
TAXES BEING ACCOUNTED FOR AND
PAID THAT THE INFORMATIONAL
REPORTING IS BEING PAID ART
DIDN'T RESEARCH THE INFORMATION
ACCORDING IS BEING MADE THAT
THERE'S NOT THE MONEY LAUNDER
CONCERNS THE ANONYMITY WHAT'S
LEFT AT THAT POINT IS THE
MEMBERS OF THE ORGANIZATION
WELL MEMBERS LISTS ARE NOT
A REQUIREMENT FOR CALIFORNIA
WHO IS CURRENTLY THEY'RE NOT
A REQUIREMENT FOR CALIFORNIA
NONPROFIT ASSOCIATIONS
CURRENTLY AND THIS WOULD BE
THE AREA OF LAW THAT ADDED
THAT WOULD BE A TYPICAL -- AND
SOMEONE HARD TO JUSTIFY FOR
WIDE THIS LAW WOULD HAVE TO
GIVE A MEMBER LISTING REPORT
YOU JUST SAID THAT FOR EVERY
SINGLE PERSON WHO RECEIVES IF
THERE IS PROFIT IN PROFITS JUST
READ IT AGAIN NOT ON A PERSONAL
NOTE ON A SHAREHOLDERS TEXTILE
BUT TO ALL OF THE HOWEVER MANY
PEOPLE YOU HAVE THEN YOU WOULD
HAVE TO FILE A TEN THEN THERE
WOULD BE TEN NINETY NINES
FILED THIS WITH HOW MUCH THEY
RECEIVED YES SO THEN THEY WOULD
NO LONGER BE ANONYMOUS TO THEM
UP TO THE GOVERNMENT SO I GUESS
THAT TO THE GOVERNMENT YEAH
IT IS IS BUT BUT BUT BEING A
MEMBER IS NOT NECESSARILY THE
SAME AS GETTING COMPENSATION
RIGHT NOT EVERY MEMBERS GOING
TO RECEIVE COMPENSATION FROM
ONE OF THESE ORGANIZATIONS SO
YOU WOULDN'T HAVE REPORTING
REQUIREMENTS IF YOU'RE SIMPLY
A MEMBER WHO IS VOTING NOT
RECEIVING COMPENSATE THAT'S
FAIR YEAH SO THAT'S SO THAT'S
THE GROUP THAT GETS TO REMAIN
ANONYMOUS THAT'S HE'S LEFT
AFTER MEETING ALL OF ITS OTHER
RESPONSIBILITIES GOT IT AND SO
I GUESS OKAY SO THAT DEALS WITH
THE TAX FRAUD CONCERNS I THINK
ALTHOUGH AGAIN NOT A TAX EXPERT
-- BUT I GUESS WHAT I'M TRYING
TO UNDERSTAND IS THIS NOTION
OF AS I SAID YOU KNOW ARE WE
CREATING A WAY IN WHICH WE'RE
ALLOWING INDIVIDUALS AND I
UNDERSTAND ALL THE TRANSACTIONS
ARE ON THE BLOCKCHAIN BUT
THAT YOU KNOW THESE GROUPS ARE
FORMING THERE'S THIS ENTITY
DOING BUSINESS OF SOME SORT
AND NOW WE DON'T KNOW WHO THOSE
INDIVIDUALS ARE AND IF THERE IS
A LIABILITY QUESTION WE CANNOT
WE CAN'T EVEN TRY TO PIERCE
THE CORPORATE VEIL TWEETED OF
THOSE FOLKS ARE I GUESS THAT'S
THE QUESTION I HAVE WELL EVEN
CALIFORNIA WITHOUT LOOKING
INTO THE THE TEN NINETY NINE
AVAILABILITY LET'S TAKE THAT
OFF THE TABLE THEN WE STILL
HAVE FILING REQUIREMENTS FOR
THE SERVICE OF PROCESS AND
THERE'S CERTAINLY AN ARGUMENT
TO BE MADE THAT ONE OF THESE
ORGANIZATIONS WOULD BE REQUIRED
TO HAVE FILE YOU A ONE HUNDRED
REQUIRING SERVICE PROCESS
SO THEIR SERVICE PROCESS ON
WOULD KNOW WHO AT LEAST TWO
OF THE MEMBERS ARE OBSOLETE
BE A DISCLOSURE ON THAT FRONT
-- AND THEN SO SO SO IT'S NOT
A COMPLETELY UNKNOWN -- GROUP
OF INDIVIDUALS -- AND THEN
ALSO THE ENTITY FORM WOULD BE
KNOWN SO THEY WOULD HAVE TO
COME FORWARD TO PARTICIPATE
IN THE CAUSE OF ACTION TO
PARTICIPATE IN THE COMPLAINT
THEY WOULD HAVE TO HAVE A VOTE
OF THE GOVERNING PRINCIPLES
AN AUTHORIZED ADMINISTRATOR
TO APPEAR SO THE BOOK WOULDN'T
ABOUT HAPPENED THE INFLECTION
OF THAT'S WHAT YOU SAID THAT
ALL ALL THOSE VOTES IN ANSWER
RESPONSES ONLY MEMBER AND
YOU'RE SAYING THAT THAT'S GONNA
HAPPEN THROUGH THE BLOCKCHAIN A
BLOCKCHAIN DOESN'T NECESSARILY
MEAN ANONYMOUS IS STILL WOULD
NEED TO THE COULD IT WOULD
STILL BE THIS PERSON'S GOING
TO BE A REPRESENTATIVE WILL
THAT PERSON COMES FORWARD IS
THERE -- YES FOR THE ONE PERSON
YES SIR IF I EVEN ALL OF THEM
IN ORDER TO VOTE YEAH AND IT
WAS TO DO IT AND I MEAN I TAKE
YOUR POINT RIGHT BUT IT ISN'T
EXISTENCE OF WOMEN ALIVE VOTING
FOR ANY ORGANIZATION THAT
DOESN'T HAVE MEMBER LISTING SO
I WOULD SAY YES WERE IN THAT
GROUP BUT I THINK OF THE MORE
APT COMPARISON WOULD BE IS IT
BETTER FOR THAT ORGANIZATION
TO EXIST IN THE UNITED STATES
UNDER EXISTING AN ACCEPTABLE U.
S.
LAWS OR HAVE IT BE EXTERNAL
TO THE UNITED STATES BECAUSE
ORGANIZATIONS CAN CONTINUE
TO FUNCTION EXIST THERE'S A
PATH TOWARDS COMPLIANCE IT
IS A PATH TOWARDS RESPONSIBLE
YOUTH THERE'S A PATH TOWARDS
YOU KNOW FOLLOWING INFORMATION
REPORTING ALL OF THE THINGS
NECESSARY THE ALTERNATIVE IS
JUST NOT DOING THAT AND SO I
SAY IT'S A MUCH IT'S A MARKED
IMPROVEMENT OVER LEAVING THESE
IN THE CAYMAN ISLANDS LEAVING
THEM AND TO DO LISTS LEAVING
THEM IN THE HANDS OF FOREIGN
JURISDICTIONS TO REGULATE YES
AND I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE WE
HAVE MORE ABILITY TO REGULATE
THEM THAN SAY THE CAME IN SO
THAT'S WHAT I'M TRYING TO FOR
EXAMPLE -- SO I THINK I GUESS
YOU KNOW I'LL I KNOW WHAT THE
AUTHOR IS TRYING TO DO HERE
AND I RESPECT WITH THE OFFICE
TRYING TO DO HERE AND SO I'M
GOING TO SUPPORT THE BILL
TODAY BUT I DO THINK THE BILL
NEEDS SOME WORK TO TRY TO GET
SIGNIFICAN MORE CLARITY AND --
TIGHTENING AROUND TO THIS WILL
APPLY TO I MEAN I THINK RIGHT
NOW IS I READ IT IS INCREDIBLY
BROAD AND LEAVES OPEN I'M JUST
OPPORTUNITY THAT I DON'T THINK
WE MAY WANT TO BE THERE AND
THAT WE CAN PROVIDE OPPORTUNITY
FOR GOOD ACTORS WHILE ALSO
CLOSING ON THE DOORSTEP
WHAT KIND OF ORGANIZATION WOULD
WOULD FORM -- OUT OF THIS SO
CAN YOU GIVE CONCRETE EXAMPLE
YEAH WE'RE MOSTLY LOOKING AT
-- THE THE THE GROUP OF PEOPLE
THAT SURROUNDS A PROTOCOL
DAUSA PROTOCOLS A COLLECTION OF
SMART CONTRACTS THAT OPERATES
A FUNCTION AND -- AROUND THAT
IS THE VOTING THE GOVERNANCE
AND POTENTIALLY CONTROL OF A
TREASURY SAYS FOR THE VALUE
POINT COMES FROM WHAT WE'RE
REALLY TALKING ABOUT HERE
IS THE MEMBERS OF THAT GROUP
THE PEOPLE THAT'S WHAT THE
ORGANIZATION FORMS AROUND SO
THAT FOR THE PURPOSES OF THIS
BILL IS WHAT WE CONSIDER TO
BE A DOUBT THERE'S DEBATE ON
THAT CONCEPT GENERALLY BUT
AND IT SAYS THE ORGANIZATION
OF PEOPLE SO THAT WOULD
BE AN IN ASSOCIATION WHO'S
DIRECTING THE DEVELOPMENT OF
THAT PROTOCOL IMPROVING IT
POTENTIALLY STEERING FUNDS
MAKING -- -- YOU KNOW HIRING
OF CONTRACTORS DOING THE TEN
NINETY NINE REPORTING TO MAKE
THE PROTOCOL BETTER -- AND
SPENDING THAT MONEY IN A WAY
IN WHICH FOLLOWING THE TAX
REPORTING AROUND SENDING THAT
MONEY TO IMPROVE THE OVERALL
-- CHANCES OF THAT PROTOCOL
WORKING CONTINUING TO WORK
AND SO REALLY IT'S A IT'S A
IT'S ALMOST LIKE A TRUST IS
A GROUP OF PEOPLE WHO WORK
AROUND THE PROTOCOL HIS JOB
IS TO IMPROVE IT TO MAKE
IT FUNCTION BETTER AND THEY
VOTE COLLECTIVELY THEY'VE A
COMMUNALLY TO EFFECTUATE THAT
PURPOSE THANK YOU VERY MUCH ARE
THERE ANY OTHER WEEK ASSEMBLY
MEMBER WILSON THANK YOU AND
FOLLOW UP TO THAT -- THEY NOW
IT'S NOTES THAT ANALYSIS NOTES
THAT ONE PERCENT OF TOKEN
HOLDERS OF THE TEN MAJOR DOUSE
CONTROLLED NINETY PERCENT OF
THE VOTING POWER SO HOW DO WE
ENSURE THAT A SMALL NUMBER OF
PEOPLE TO EXERCISE SIGNIFICANT
CONTROL OVER THE DIRECTION
OF THESE ORGANIZATIONS AND
BEFORE YOU ANSWER THAT A
QUORUM IS LIKE GOLD TO A CHAIR
PERSON AND THE COMMITTEES
TO WE DO HAVE OF COURSE SO
WE'RE GOING TO ESTABLISH
A QUORUM CHIEF CONSULTANT
WILL YOU CORAL GRAYSON
HERE CHEN OKAY CERVANTES --
DIXON HERE MIKE FONG GABRIEL
PETRIE-NORRIS SORIA HERE
WALDRON WICKS WELL SAID HERE
SO WE DO HAVE A QUORUM AND
YOU NOW CAN ANSWER YES I'M IT
THE SUIT IT PROBABLY DOESN'T
MATTER BECAUSE IT'S IT'S IT'S
A IT'S A LARGE FRAZIER I WOULD
PROBABLY CONTEST THE EXACT
SPECIFICS THAT FIGURE THINGS
BY LOWER BUT RIGHT TO THE
POINT STILL STANDS RIGHT IF YOU
HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO WERE
IN POWER AND CONTROL IT THEN
IS IT REALLY FAIR IS REALLY
DECENTRALIZED ALL OF THOSE
THINGS -- THERE'S A COUPLE
ANSWERS TO THAT QUESTION IT IS
THE FUNNY THING ABOUT ANY NEW
TECHNOLOGY GOT A QUICK QUESTION
AND THEN A VERY LONG ANSWER IN
THREE PARTS ANSWER -- SAW TRY
TO KEEP IT A LITTLE MORE HIGH
LEVEL THAN THAT -- ULTIMATELY
THE TECHNOLOGY IS ESSENTIALLY
OPEN SOURCE AND SO IT CAN BE
FOR -- AND THEY CAN HAVE A
ANOTHER VERSION OF IT THAT
OPERATES INDEPENDENT OF ANY
MALICIOUS INTEREST OR A TYPICAL
INTERESTS ARE OUT OF PROPORTION
INTEREST OR SOMETHING THAT THE
TECHNOLOGY IS CAPABLE OF DOING
SO IF THERE WAS A ON OUTSIZED
INFLUENCE ON THE OVERALL
GOVERNANCE OF ANY ONE OF THESE
PROTOCOLS THEY WOULD HAVE THE
OPTION OF GOING FORWARD RUNNING
THE SAME PROGRAM DEVELOPING
A NEW COMMUTING AROUND AND
PROCEEDING FORWARD SO THAT'S A
REALLY EXCITING THING FOR THE
USERS OF THIS TECHNOLOGY NEVER
BEING UNDER THE THE THE YOKE
OF OPPRESSION WHEN IT COMES
TO BEING FORCED TO STAY INSIDE
OF A -- THE IN INSTITUTION
THAT'S NOT WORKING OR PROPERLY
RESPECTING THE VALUE OR
FUNCTION AND SO THAT'S THAT'S
ONE OF THE EXCITING THINGS
THE OTHER ONE IS IN THIS IS AN
ANSWER THAT GETS THROWN AROUND
A LITTLE TOO MUCH BUT I WANT TO
GIVE CREDIT TO IT BECAUSE IT'S
THAT IT'S NEW THAT IT'S RIGHT
NOW IT'S DEVELOPING THERE'S
BEEN A LOT OF INVESTMENT AND
THE TECHNOLOGY BEHIND IT IS NOT
AS ROBUST AND SO RIGHT NOW THAT
JUST THE THE DISPROPORTIONATE
YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT IS THE V.
INVESTORS CAPTURE OF VALUE IN
CONTROL WHILE WE'RE BUILDING
OUT THIS TECHNOLOGY WITH
THE EXPECTATION BEING AT THE
TECHNOLOGY EXISTS FOR LONGER
THOSE RATIOS WOULD FALL
TO A MUCH MORE MANAGEABLE
AND ACCEPTABLE APPEARING A
PERCENTAGE OKAY THANK YOU AND
THEN GIVEN YOU TALKED ABOUT IT
BEING NEW I'M SORRY IS THAT A
-- AND THAT IT'S YOU KNOW NEW
TECHNOLOGY ALL OF THIS IS NEW
AND IT'S I NOW MAKE AN CHANGING
AND SO WE KNOW THAT THE FEDERAL
REGULATORS AND COURTS HAVE
NOT REALLY WEIGHED IN ON THE
EXISTENCE OF THE DALLAS PART
WHERE WHERE DO YOU SEE THAT
LANDING AS YOU GO FORWARD
WELL ENERGY FORMS SO THAT
BECAUSE THE CONCERN THAT WE
HAVE IS THAT THESE ENTITY
FORMS THESE DOUBTS WITHOUT
ANY OTHER -- LEGAL ENTITY
SELECTION ARE GOING TO BE A
GENERAL PARTNERSHIP THAT'S
THE EXPECTATION AND SO THE ON
A CORPORATE ASSOCIATION THE
CALIFORNIA VERSION OF IT -- AND
THE NONPROFIT VERSIONS ARE ARE
ARE DIFFERENT SIDES OF THE SAME
COIN THE GENERAL PARTNERSHIP
IS THE FOR PARTNERSHIP VERSION
THE ON A CORPORATE NONPROFIT
ASSOCIATIONS THE NONPROFIT
VERSION AND SO I WOULD SAY
GIVEN HOW THE CAKE THE THE
THE THE CASES THAT HAVE
BEEN BROUGHT FORWARD AND THE
CONCERNS THAT HAVE BEEN MADE
-- I THINK WE'RE CLEAR WHERE
THE IN THE RIGHT PLACE THAT
THE GENTLE PARTNERSHIPS AND
OTHER CORPORATE ASSOCIATIONS
IS THE APPROPRIATE PLACE
TO LOOK AT THESE THESE
ENTITY FORMS THANK YOU
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FROM
COMMITTEE COMMENTS C.
NONE ASSEMBLY MEMBER WOULD YOU
LIKE TO CLOSE YES AND THANK
YOU AND MISTER CHAIRMAN THANK
YOU FOR THE FOR THOSE GREAT
QUESTIONS EVERY TIME -- WE
DISCUSSED THIS ISSUE I LEARNED
A LOT AND AND THERE'S CLEARLY A
LOT MORE THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE
I TO DIG FURTHER INTO THIS THIS
BILL WILL ALSO GO TO JUDICIARY
AND WE WILL ALSO HAVE THE
OPPORTUNITY TO DRESS SOME OF
THE THE THE QUESTIONS THAT WERE
BROUGHT UP BY THAT THE MEMBERS
-- ULTIMATELY WE KNOW THAT
THIS IS AN AREA WHERE THERE'S
A TREMENDOUS OPPORTUNITY FOR
INNOVATION FOR OUR STATE WE
WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE
HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY FOR TO
WELCOME THEIR INNOVATION BUT
ALSO TO REGULATE HOW TO BRING
THESE THINGS OUT OF OUT OF THE
SHADOWS AND AND PROVIDE THOSE
TYPES OF ENTITIES THAT ALLOW US
FOR TO DO THE TAXATION IN THE
OVERSIGHT AND REGULATION AT THE
SAME TIME AS WE WELCOME THEM
IN OUR STATE I DO THINK THERE'S
A HUGE POTENTIAL FOR DALLAS --
AND SO WITH THAT -- I ASK FOR
YOUR AYE VOTE AND APPRECIATE
THE CHAIR THE COMMITTEE -- FOR
YOUR LEADERSHIP AND YOUR GREAT
INSIGHT THAT WILL HELP US AS
WE MOVE FORWARD I DO I HAVE A
MOTION FROM THE SUMMER WILSON
SECOND FROM AMERICAN WITH THAT
-- THANK YOU VERY MUCH AND SHE
CONSULTED PLEASE CALL THE ROLL
THE MOTION IS TO PASS THREE
FOR TO JUST HEAR COMMITTEE
GRAYSON HI CHRIS AND I CHEN
OUR CAN BARK AND I CERVANTES
CERVANTES I TEXAN -- NO SIX AND
NO MIKE FONG HI MY CLIENT HI
GABRIEL GABRIEL I PETRIE-NORRIS
SORRY I'M SORRY I WALDRON
WICKS WILSON I BILL SO I
THE BILL HAS SEVEN VOTES
IT GETS OUT WE WILL HOLD
IT OPEN FOR ABSENT MEMBERS
THANK YOU SO MUCH I DO
WANT TO -- ADDRESS THE
CONSENT CALENDAR DO I HAVE A
SO I HAVE ASSEMBLY MEMBER
OF VERY EXCITED COMMITTEE
-- SOME OF OUR K.
AND -- MOTION AND SECOND
BY SOME MEMBER WILSON CHIEF
CONSULTANT PLEASE CALL ON
THE CALENDAR AB TWELVE NINETY
SIX THE MOTION IS TO PASS
TO APPROPRIATIONS GRAYSON
HI GRAYSON AYE CHAN OUR
CAN PARK AND HIGH CERVANTES
CERVANTES AYE TEXAN AYE SIX
AND I AM MIKE FONG THANK
ON HI GABRIEL GABRIEL I
PETRIE-NORRIS SORIA I WALDRON
WICKS WILSON AND WILSON I
BECAUSE THE CALENDAR HAS
EIGHT FILE ITEM SIX AB TWELVE
NINETY SIX A GETS OUT WE WILL
HOLD THE ROLE OPEN FOR ABSENT
MEMBERS I AM GOING TO GO
AHEAD AND GO TO ASSEMBLYMEMBER
ALVAREZ FILE ITEM NUMBER
THREE IF THAT'S OKAY SOME
MEMBERS AS INSURING COMMITTEE
AND SO SO MEMBER ALVAREZ
OUT OF COURTESY PLEASE COME
THANK YOU I APPRECIATE THE
OPPORTUNITY THANK YOU SIR
GABRIEL FOR ALLOW ME -- TO
JUMP AHEAD A LITTLE BIT -- I
COME TO YOU WITH A AB TWELVE
FORTY SEVENS ACTUALLY -- NAY
DO THAT I HAD -- LAST WHEN I
WAS HERE FOR THE END OF LAST
LEGISLATIVE SESSION -- AND THAT
WAS PARTLY ADDRESSED BY THE
FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WITH THE
EMERGENCY SAVINGS ACCOUNT ACT
-- UNDER THE BUDGET ACT OF LAST
YEAR HOWEVER -- I THINK THAT
THAT A PIECE OF LESS FEDERAL
LEGISLATION MAY STILL FALL
SHORT IN TRYING TO ADDRESS THE
ISSUE OF EMERGENCY SAVINGS AND
SO THAT'S WHY I'M HERE WITH YOU
TODAY TO TALK ABOUT A.
B.
TWELVE FORTY SEVEN RECENT
STUDY CONDUCTED BY THE FEDERAL
RESERVE SAID THAT ALMOST HALF
OF AMERICANS WOULD STRUGGLE
TO COME UP WITH FOUR HUNDRED
DOLLARS TO HELP COVER AN
EMERGENCY EXPENSE SAME STUDY
FOUND THAT SIX OUT OF TEN
HOUSEHOLDS EXPERIENCE AT
LEAST ONE FINANCIAL EMERGENCY
EVERY HERE AND SHOULD COME
NO SURPRISE THAT -- BLACK AND
HISPANIC ADULTS AS WELL AS
THE ADULTS WITH LOWER INCOME
ARE DISPROPORTIONATELY FACING
THESE CHALLENGES EVERY SINGLE
YEAR THESE EMERGENCIES INCLUDE
MEDICAL BILLS IF SOMEONE GETS
HURT A WATER LEAK A CAR --
BREAKING DOWN OR SOMETHING ELSE
THAT NEEDS IMMEDIATE FIXING
THAT PEOPLE DON'T HAVE ACCESS
TO CASH TO BE ABLE TO ADDRESS
AS FAMILIES AND INDIVIDUALS
ARE RECUPERATING FROM DISASTERS
OF THE PANDEMIC HAD ON THEM
THE STATE WOULD BE WISE IN
ANALYZING HOW WE CAN ASSIST
THEM DURING TIMES OF EMERGENCY
WITH AN EMERGENCY EXPENSE A.
B.
TWELVE FORTY SEVEN CREATES
THE EMERGENCY SAVINGS ACCOUNT
COMMISSION THAT WILL CONDUCT
AN IN DEPTH ANALYSIS ON THE
PREVAILING OF INDIVIDUALS
WHO DO NOT HAVE ACCESS TO
SUFFICIENT FUNDS WHEN FACED
WITH FINANCIAL EMERGENCIES
THE COMMISSION WILL LOOK
INTO CAUSES OF THE PROBLEM
SOLUTIONS FOR FIXING THOSE
PROBLEMS AND IF THE STATE
CAN PLAY ANY ROLE IN THOSE
SOLUTIONS MY STAFF HAS MET WITH
THE DEPARTMENT OF FINANCIAL
PROTECTION AND INNOVATION TO
IDENTIFY POTENTIAL MEMBERS
OF THE COMMISSION AND RECEIVE
FEEDBACK TO CLARIFY QUESTIONS
THAT THE ANALYSIS WILL CAPTURE
-- MEMBERS IS A CRUCIAL THAT
WE START LOOKING INTO A MAJOR
EMERGENCY SAVINGS AS AN ISSUE
FOR OUR RESIDENTS AND I HOPE
THAT THIS BILL WILL HAVE WILL
BE THE FIRST STEP ALONG THAT
ROAD THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR
THE OPPORTUNITY TO LOOK FOR
YOUR QUESTIONS THANK YOU SO
VERY MUCH AND WE ARE LOOKING
FOR SUPPORT -- SIMPLY STATE
YOUR NAME ORGANIZATION POSITION
SEEING NONE -- NO REGISTERED
OPPOSITION ARE THERE ANY
MEMBERS IN THE AUDIENCE IN
OPPOSITION SEEING NONE WE WILL
BRING IT BACK TO COMMITTEE
OKAY WE DO HAVE A MOTION AND
A SECOND SO OF NO COMMENTS NO
QUESTIONS YOU GET OFF REALLY
EASY YEAH BUT I'M SORRY I
SAID ALL THE WAY TO ENHANCE
WE'RE ALMOST THERE ALL RIGHT
I THINK YOU'RE -- MY OPINIONS
I THINK YOUR CONCEPT IS GOOD I
JUST DON'T KNOW WHERE HOW FAR
YOU'RE GOING TO GO WHEN YOU
SAY TO PREVENT OR MITIGATE THE
IMPACT OF UNPLANNED FINANCIAL
EMERGENCIES WHAT HAPPENS AFTER
THE STUDY WELL HOPEFULLY THE
STUDY WILL COME UP WITH --
A BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF
THE STATE OF CALIFORNIANS
IN PARTICULAR AND WHERE THEY
ARE AS IT RELATES EMERGENCY
SAVINGS -- AS I STATED EARLIER
THERE ARE SOME FEDERAL --
WRIST NATIONWIDE STUDIES THAT
DEMONSTRATE THAT -- HALF OF
PEOPLE CANNOT EVEN COME UP WITH
FOUR HUNDRED DOLLARS AND SO THE
IDEA IS IS ARE THERE MECHANISMS
ARE THEIR TOOLS ARE THEIR
VEHICLES SAVINGS ACCOUNTS OTHER
A MECHANISMS THAT WHERE WE CAN
INCENTIVIZE INDIVIDUALS FROM
SAVING AND ENCOURAGING TO SAY
SO THAT IF AN EMERGENCY DOES
OCCUR THEY HAVE SOMEWHERE TO
GO I THINK AS HIGHLY LAUDABLE
YOU KNOW IT'S IRONIC THERE SOME
OTHER BILLS I DON'T KNOW IF IT
WAS IN THIS COMMITTEE JUST TO
REQUIRED COURSES IN FINANCIAL
LITERACY AND THEY WERE NOT
SUPPORTED I THINK THAT'S A
THAT'S A COMPANION ISSUE IS
OF THE FINANCIAL LITERACY -- I
HAD TO HELP PEOPLE PREPARE FOR
EMERGENCIES THAT IMPACT THEIR
LIVES I THINK THAT'S QUITE A
LOT OF I JUST KIND OF IRONIC
TO ME THAT FINANCIAL LITERACY
ISN'T A COMPONENT TO WOULD YOU
CONSIDER A FINANCIAL LITERACY
OR DO YOU SEE THAT PART OF THIS
DISCUSSION I THINK THAT WOULD
BE PART OF THIS DISCUSSION THE
COMMISSION COULD COME UP WITH
FINDINGS THAT IDENTIFY THAT AS
A POTENTIAL -- RECOMMENDATION
AND I AGREE WITH YOU THAT
FINANCIAL LITERACY IS REALLY
CRITICAL ESPECIALLY FOR YOUNG
PEOPLE AND -- GREAT TO HAVE
THEM HIGH SCHOOL OR IN COLLEGE
BUT -- THE COMMISSION WOULD
BE THE ONE THAT PROP PROVIDES
THOSE RECOMMENDATIONS ON ON
WHAT POTENTIAL NEXT STEPS WOULD
BE VERY GOOD THANK YOU THANK
YOU ASSEMBLY MEMBER WE CAN
WE COUNT THAT AS YOUR CLOSING
STATEMENT WITHOUT A LICENSE
THANK YOU VERY MUCH TIRED I
REQUEST YOU I HAVE A THANK
YOU SO VERY MUCH WITH THAT
SHE QUIT PLEASE CALL AB TWELVE
FORTY SEVEN THE MOTIONS TO PASS
REFER TO THE APPROPRIATIONS
COMMITTEE GRAYSON AYE GRAYSON
AYE CHAN OUR QUE HAN PARA QUE
HAN HI CERVANTES CERVANTES
I'D DIXON NINE SIX AND I
AM LIKE FONG HI MY FONG AYE
GABRIEL GABRIEL I PETRIE-NORRIS
SORIA SORRY I WALDRON
WICKS WILSON WILSON HIGH
THE SCHOOL HAS A VOTER GETS
OUT WE WILL KEEP THE ROLE OPEN
FOR ABSENT MEMBERS THANK YOU
MISTER I THINK THE NUMBERS AND
AGAIN -- EXTENDING COURTESY
FROM ASSEMBLYMEMBER GABRIEL
WHO'S ON THE COMMITTEE WE
WILL -- GO TO FILE ITEM NUMBER
FIVE OR I'M SORRY FILE ITEM
NUMBER FOUR ASSEMBLY MEMBER
KALRA AB FOURTEEN AB FOURTEEN
FOURTEEN ITEM NUMBER FOUR THE
RECOMMENDATION IS DUE PASSED AS
AMENDED TO APPLY TO THE BILL'S
PROVISIONS TO CONSUMER DEBT
INCURRED ON OR AFTER JANUARY
FIRST TWENTY TWENTY FOUR AND TO
INCORPORATE AMENDMENTS ALREADY
APPROVED BY JUDICIARY COMMITTEE
A DESCRIPTION OF THOSE
AMENDMENTS IS IN THE COMMITTEE
ANALYSIS ASSEMBLY MEMBER KALRA
WHENEVER YOU'RE READY YOU MAY
BEGIN THANK YOU -- THANK YOU
MISTER CHAIR MEMBERS I WANT TO
START BY THANKING THE CHAIR AND
THE COMMITTEE STAFFER WORKING
WITH MY OFFICE AND ALL EXCEPT
THE AFOREMENTIONED -- COMMITTEE
AMENDMENTS AB FOURTEEN FOURTEEN
WOULD PROTECT CONSUMERS AGAINST
PREDATORY DEBT COLLECTION
LAWSUITS BY REQUIRING DEBT
COLLECTORS DEBT BUYERS AND
ORIGINAL CREDITORS TO PRODUCE
AND SUIT ON A CONTRACT FOR
DECEMBER THAT A CONSUMER DEBT
CASES RATHER THAN COMMON COUNTS
COVER NINETEEN PANDEMIC SAYS I
NEVER CAN CERTAINLY EXACERBATE
FINANCIAL HARDSHIP FOR LOW
INCOME FAMILIES LEADING TO
MISS BILL PAYMENTS INCREASED
CHANCE OF EXPOSURE TO DEBT
COLLECTORS AND DEBT BUYERS
DEBT BUYERS ARE COLLECTION
AGENCIES WHO PURCHASE PASSED
TWO DAYS PAST DUE DEBTS FROM
CREDITORS SOMETIMES FOR PENNIES
ON THE DOLLAR WHO OFTENTIMES
ATTEMPT TO COLLECT THE DEBT
UNDER OUTDATED BECAUSE OF
ACTUAL LIKE OPEN BOOK ACCOUNTS
THESE PLEADINGS ALSO KNOWN
AS COMIC COUNTS ARE SUBJECT
TO LESSER EVIDENCE STANDARDS
IN THE PUB COLLECTORS OBEYED
MODERN CONSUMER PROTECTION
LAWS AND TENS OF THOUSANDS OF
CASES ONE OF THE CENTER FOR
RESPONSIBLE LENDING ATTORNEYS
REPRESENT DEPENDENCE ONLY TWO
PERCENT OF DEBT CASES BUT TWO
THIRDS OF ALL CASES RESULTING
IN DEFAULT DEFAULT JUDGMENT
THEY CAN GARNISH WAGES OR
SEIZE BANK ACCOUNTS AB FOURTEEN
FOURTEEN SIMPLY ENSURES THE
CONTRACT THAT GAVE RISE TO
THE CONSUMER DEBT CLAIM IS
PRODUCED AND SUIT ON IN COURT
THE CONTRACT WAS NOT ENTERED
INTO INDIVIDUALS CONSUME ON
AN OPEN BOOK ACCOUNTS SO LONG
AS THEY PROVIDE RECORDS OF ALL
DEBIT AND CREDIT TRANSACTIONS
THAT MADE UP THE ALLEGED
BALANCE THIS BILL CLOSING
EXPLOITED A LOOPHOLE THAT IS
ONLY DRIVEN PEOPLE FURTHER
INTO POVERTY AND HOLES DOT THE
DEBT COLLECTORS DEBT BUYERS
AN ORIGINAL CREDITORS TO THE
SAME EVIDENTIARY STANDARDS AS
EVERY OTHER BUSINESS WE LOOK
FORWARD TO CONTINUE TO WORK
WITH THE OPPOSITION UP AND
HERE TO TESTIFY IN SUPPORT
IS A LIST BECAUSE ALSO BY THE
STOP ETERNIA PUBLIC COUNCIL
AND DESIREE WHEN OR IF THE
DIRECTOR OF THE CONSUMER
JUSTICE PRACTICE AT EAST BAY
COMMUNITY LAW CENTER THANK YOU
GOOD AFTERNOON CHAIR MEMBERS
MY NAME IS ELIZABETH AND
DOLLARS AND I'M AN ATTORNEY
WITH PUBLIC COUNCIL WORKING
WITH LOW INCOME CONSUMERS
AND VICTIMS OF PREDATORY DEBT
COLLECTION PRACTICES I SEE
FIRSTHAND THE HARM OF SO CALLED
COMMON COUNTS AB FOURTEEN
FOURTEEN IS A COMMON SENSE
STEP TO STOP LAWSUITS AGAINST
DEBTORS ON CLAIMS THAT THEY
DO NOT UNDERSTAND AND THAT ARE
NOT BASED ON THE CONTRACT THAT
THEY ACTUALLY ENTERED INTO
COMMENT COUNT ALLOWED JUDGMENTS
AGAINST THE MOST VULNERABLE
WITHOUT THE ASSISTANCE OF LEGAL
SERVICES ORGANIZATIONS ELDERLY
CLIENTS HE LEANS BEING PLACED
ON THEIR HOMES REDUCING THE
LITTLE GENERATIONAL WEALTH THEY
HAVE TO PASS DOWN OTHER CLANS
CAN'T PAY THE RENT BECAUSE
THEIR BANK ACCOUNTS HAVE BEEN
LEVIED IN JUST THE LAST MONTH
PUBLIC COUNCIL FACE SEVERAL
DEBT COLLECTION CASES BROUGHT
ON COMMON COUNTS ONE WAS
DISMISSED AFTER WE FILED THE
MOTION TO COMPEL PRODUCTION OF
DOCUMENTS THAT THE PLAINTIFF
REFUSED TO PROVIDE PROBABLY
BECAUSE THEY NEVER HAD THE
DOCUMENTS IN ANOTHER A DISABLED
DEFENDANT BELIEVES BANKRUPTCY
IS HER ONLY OPTION AND SHE HAS
ALMOST NO WAY OF GETTING TO
THE COURTHOUSE FOR HER TRIAL
AND IS UNABLE TO UNDERSTAND
THE COMMON COUNTS CLAIMS AND
NOT TO DEFEND HERSELF TENS OF
THOUSANDS OF THESE CLAIMS ARE
FILED AGAINST CALIFORNIANS EACH
YEAR AND FOR THOSE NOT ABLE
TO OBTAIN LEGAL REPRESENTATION
THE RESULTS ARE HORRIFIC
THE USE OF COMMON COUNTS IS
CONFUSING BY DESIGN TODAY'S
HEARING REQUIRE DETAILED
LEGAL ANALYSIS SENT EXPERTS
TO EXPLAIN COMMON POUNDS HOW
CAN WE EXPECT NON ENGLISH
SPEAKERS SENIORS AND OTHER
VULNERABLE DEFENDANTS INCLUDING
VETERANS TO UNDERSTAND AND
AGREE TO THESE ARCHAIC CLAIMS
THE OPPOSITION PUT FORTS PUTS
FORTH SEVERAL MISSTATEMENTS
IN ITS POSITION COMMENT COUNT
SHOULD NOT BE USED WHEN A
CONTRACT EXISTS COMMON COUNTS
ARE NEW AGREEMENTS BEING
FORCED ON DEBTORS WITHOUT
THEIR KNOWLEDGE THIS IS NOT
EQUITABLE THE BEST WAY TO
PROTECT CONSUMERS WOULD BE FOR
THIS BILL TO APPLY IMMEDIATELY
TO ALL PENDING LAWSUITS THE
PROPOSED AMENDMENTS MAKE THE
BILL PERSPECTIVE REPRESENT
A MAJOR AND VERY DIFFICULT
COMPROMISE FOR THE AUTHOR
AND THE CO SPONSORS THE
PROPOSED AMENDMENTS MAY LEAVE
CONSUMERS VULNERABLE FOR
YEARS BUT WE BELIEVE THIS
BILL WILL EVENTUALLY HELP LOW
INCOME DEBTORS HAVE A BETTER
CHANCE AT ECONOMIC SECURITY
BY PUTTING THE SAME BURDEN OF
PROOF ON DEBT COLLECTORS AS
ANY OTHER BUSINESS BRINGING
A LAWSUIT BECAUSE EVEN WITH
THE AMENDMENTS THIS BILL WILL
IN THE LONG RUN SIGNIFICANTLY
HELP HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF
CALIFORNIANS WE RESPECTFULLY
ASK FOR YOUR AYE VOTE THANK YOU
NEXT GOOD AFTERNOON KAREN
MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE
I AM DOES VERY NGUYEN ORTH
DIRECTOR OF THE CONSUMER
JUSTICE PRACTICE AT EAST BAY
COMMUNITY LAW CENTER CLINICIAN
OF UC BERKELEY LAW AND A NEWLY
APPOINTED MEMBER OF THE DEBT
COLLECTION ADVISORY COMMITTEE
TO THE FBI WITH OVER A DECADE
PRACTICING THAT DEFENSE I HAVE
SEEN COUNTLESS CASES BASED ON
THESE ARCHAIC CAUSES OF ACTION
MANY TIMES EVEN IN CASES WITH
ORIGINAL CREDITORS WHO HAVE
THE ORIGINAL CONTRACT THIS IS
BECAUSE AS EVEN AB FOURTEEN
FOURTEEN TO PLAY IT OPPONENTS
CONCEDE COMMENT HOUSE MAKE
DECLARATION CASES EASIER TO
WIN WITHOUT PROVING THE MERITS
OF THE CLAIM THEY MAKE IT
EASIER TO OBTAIN JUDGMENTS
BECAUSE DOCTORS DON'T HAVE TO
PRODUCE A CONTRACT ON WHICH
THE ALLEGED DEBTS ARE BASED
THE OPPOSITION HAS ASSERTED
THAT THEY ONLY KEEP CONTRACTS
FOR TWO YEARS BUT NOTHING IS
KEEPING THEM FROM ATTAINING
THE RELEVANT CONTRACTS FOR
A LONGER TIME AND IF FOR ANY
REASON THEY DON'T HAVE THE
CONTRACT THEN DATE LIKE ANY
OTHER BUSINESS SHOULD NOT TO
FURTHER SOME COMMON COUNTER
BASED ON PRINCIPLES THAT ARE
INTEGRAL TO BASIC CONTRACT
TENANTS SUCH AS INTERPRETING
SILENCE TO BE A SENSE THE
OPPOSITION IS USING SMALL
INDIVIDUAL BUSINESS OWNERS
SUCH AS GARDENERS AND OTHERS
WHO MAY NOT HAVE ENTERED INTO
A WRITTEN CONTRACT FOR THEIR
SERVICES AS A SHIELD TO DEFEND
THEIR USE OF THESE UNFAIR
CAUSE OF ACTION HOWEVER THIS
BILL WOULD NOT AFFECT TO THOSE
BUSINESSES AS EIGHTY FOURTEEN
ONLY APPLIES WHEN A WRITTEN
CONTRACT IS ENTERED INTO WITH
CONSUMERS THE OPPOSITION ALSO
WORRIES ABOUT HOW THIS BILL
WILL AFFECT THE DEBT COLLECTION
INDUSTRY AS A WHOLE HOWEVER
THE REACH OF THIS BILL IS FAR
MORE NARROW THAN THE CRITICS
CLAIM THIS BILL WILL NOT TAKE
AWAY ANYONE'S RIGHT TO COLLECT
THE DEBT IT DOES NOT CHANGE
THE WAY DEBT COLLECTOR MAIN
GATE WITH CONSUMERS BEFORE
LITIGATION THE CONSUMER
FINANCIAL PROTECTION BUREAU
TWENTY SIXTEEN STUDY FOUND THAT
MANY DEBT COLLECTION COMPANIES
ARE ABLE TO SUCCESSFULLY
COLLECT ON A DEBT WITHOUT EVER
FILING A LAWSUIT TO BE CLEAR
A CONSUMER MAY STILL BE CALLED
TEXTED EMAILED OR WRITTEN TO
WITHIN THE FEDERAL LAW THE ONLY
CHANGE IS THAT IF A LAWSUIT
IS FILED ON A DEBT BASED ON A
CONTRACT THE CONTRACT MUST BE
THE BASIS FOR THE CLAIM THIS IS
THE SAME BURDEN PLACED ON ALL
OTHER BUSINESSES AB FOURTEEN
FOURTEEN IS ABOUT LEVELING
THE PLAYING FIELD THANK YOU
FOR YOUR CONSIDERATION I
RESPECTFULLY REQUEST DRIVE
UP THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR
TESTIMONY AND NOW WE WILL GO TO
THE ROOM FOR OTHERS THAT ARE IN
SUPPORT SIMPLY STATE YOUR NAME
ORGANIZATION AND POSITION THANK
YOU GOOD AFTERNOON CHAIR AND
MEMBERS DANIEL KENDALL KAISER
ON BEHALF OF THE CO SPONSORS OF
THIS BILL CALIFORNIA LOW INCOME
CONSUMER COALITION IS STATEWIDE
COLOGNE COALITION OF OVER A
DOZEN LEGAL AID PROVIDERS WHO
ARE ALL IN SUPPORT THANK YOU
THANK YOU SO MUCH ANY OTHERS IN
SUPPORT IN THE ROOM C.
NINE WE WILL NOW TURN TO
OPPOSITION AND IF -- REGISTERED
OPPOSITION AND PLEASE COME UP
THANK YOU SO MUCH
GOOD AFTERNOON MR CHAIRMAN
MEMBERS MELANIE CUEVAS WITH
THE CALIFORNIA PLEASE SPEAK
WATER YES MUCH GOOD AFTERNOON
MISTER CHAIR NUMBERS ON IT HE
WAS THE CALIFORNIA BANKERS ARE
-- ASSOCIATION AND RESPECTFUL
OPPOSITION -- UNFORTUNATELY WE
BELIEVE THAT THIS IS A SLEDGE
HAMMER APPROACH ELIMINATES
THE USE OF A COMMON COUNT
PROCEEDING FORCING PLAINTIFF
TO INSTEAD PURSUE THE MUCH
MORE ONEROUS BREACH OF CONTRACT
WHICH HAS AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT
BURDEN OF PROOF I IN A COMMON
COUNTIES A PLAINTIFF ME PERCENT
AND ACCOUNT STATUS OR A BILL
I'M AND THE BURDEN OF PROOF
IS A PREPONDERANCE OF THE
EVIDENCE AN IMPLIED PROMISE
TO PAY MUST BE PROVED SO THESE
COVER ALSO VERBAL AGREEMENTS AB
FOURTEEN FOURTEEN WOULD FORCE
A CONTRACT TO BE PRODUCED IN
PERPETUITY PERHAPS EVEN TWENTY
OR MORE YEARS AFTER THE INITIAL
AGREEMENT FEDERAL LAW SETS THE
STANDARD FOR RECORD KEEPING AND
THIS MEASURE COMPLETELY IGNORES
THE REALITIES ON HOW LONG AN
ORIGINAL CREDITOR MUST STORE AN
ORIGINAL CONTRACT REQUIRING AN
ORIGINAL CONTRACT WILL ALSO BE
DETRIMENTAL TO SMALL BUSINESSES
LIKE GARDENERS HURTING BOTH
SMALL BUSINESS OWNERS AS
WELL AS THE COMMUNITIES THAT
THEY SERVE BUT AGAIN IT'S NOT
ONLY THE COMPLIANCE ISSUES
ASSOCIATED WITH THE RECORD
KEEPING THIS MEASURE REQUIRES
AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT BURDEN
OF PROOF IT IS UNCLEAR TO
US WHY THE COMMON COUNCIL
ENTERED WHICH IS DERIVED FROM
ENGLISH LINE HAS BEEN AROUND
FOR CENTURIES IS NOW TO LOW
IF THIS MEASURE WERE ABOUT
ACCURACY AND DOCUMENTATION
WE ARE OPEN TO GETTING AN
UNDERSTANDING OF THE SPECIFIC
NUANCES AND WORKING ON LANGUAGE
TO ADDRESS GAPS IN STANDARDS
AND PROCEDURES IT'S ALSO WORTH
NOTING THAT THE PROPONENTS
POINT TO ONE HUNDRED AND EIGHT
TEEN CASES OVER A FIVE YEAR
PERIOD FROM TWENTY TWELVE TO
TWENTY SEVENTEEN DATA THAT ARE
TEN YEARS OLD MEMBERS THE FAIR
DEBT BUYING PRACTICES ACT WENT
INTO EFFECT FOR DEBT BUYERS
IN TWENTY FOURTEEN AND MORE
RECENTLY FOR DEBT COLLECTORS
AS WELL FURTHER PROPONENTS
INDICATE THAT OUT OF THESE
ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEEN CASES
FORTY SIX DID HAVE SUFFICIENT
DOCUMENTATION BUT THE DATA
DOES NOT DETAIL THE CASES WHERE
THE DOCUMENTATION WAS IN WAS
INSUFFICIENT WHAT EXACTLY WAS
MESSED WHERE THEY LICENSE ARE
THEY FOLLOWING CURRENT LAW
THIS IS A TINY AN INCOMPLETE
SAMPLING TO JUSTIFY A
SLEDGEHAMMER CHANGE ALONG CARP
OUTLINED COMMON ACCOUNTS AND
FORCING CREDITORS TO INSTEAD
USE A BREACH OF CONTRACT DOES
NOT IMPROVE ACCURACY IT JUST
MAKES COLLECTING LEGITIMATE
IT'S HARD WORK SPECIALLY
ASKED FOR YOUR NO VOTE THANK
YOU MR CHAIRMAN MEMBERS OF
THE COMMITTEE CLIFF BURKE
IN BEHALF OF THE CALIFORNIA
ASSOCIATION OF COLLECTORS WE
AREN'T RESPECTFUL OPPOSITION
TO THIS MEASURE -- THIS
MEASURE WOULD APPEAR TO MAKE
IT IMPOSSIBLE TO COLLECT ON THE
CONSUMER DEBT PARTICULARLY WE
ARE CONCERNED ABOUT WHAT ARE
KNOWN AS OPEN BOOK ACCOUNTS
WHICH THE PROPONENTS IS NOT
MENTIONED IN THEIR TESTIMONY
-- THIS BILL IS ANTI CONSUMER
IN ITS ESSENCE BIGGEST WOULD
HAVE THE EFFECT OF DRIVING
HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF
CALIFORNIA SMALL BUSINESSES
TO CHANGE THE WAY THEY DO
BUSINESS YOU HEARD PROPONENTS
TALK ABOUT THE NEED TO SUE ON
CONTRACTS THAT'S GREAT EXCEPT
HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF SMALL
BUSINESSES IN CALIFORNIA DON'T
HAVE CONTRACTS THIS BILL IN
ESSENCE LIMITS THE ABILITY
TO BRING AN ACTION ON AN OPEN
BOOK ACCOUNTING OPEN BOOK
ACCOUNT IS WHAT IS USED BY YOUR
DENTIST BUYER DRY CLEANERS BY
YOUR LANDSCAPER BY YOUR POOL
PERSON BY YOUR GARDENER ALL THE
SMALL BUSINESSES IN CALIFORNIA
SEND STATEMENTS OF ACCOUNT
BY REQUIRING A CONTRACT AND
TRYING TO FORCE A CHANGE IN THE
BUSINESS MODEL OF HUNDREDS OF
THOUSANDS OF SMALL BUSINESSES
IT'S GOING TO MAKE IT
IMPOSSIBLE FOR THOSE BUSINESSES
TO IN ESSENCE IN INSURE THAT
THEY CAN COLLECT ON THE AMOUNT
OWED THE END RESULT OF THAT
FOR CONSUMERS FRANKLY IS GOING
TO LIMIT THE AVAILABILITY OF
CREDIT SO YOU'LL SEE SIGNS IN
OFFICES IS THAT SAY PAYMENT
DUE AT TIME SERVICES RENDERED
HOW DOES THAT HELP THE CONSUMER
WHAT WILL HAPPEN IS CONSUMERS
WILL USE HIGH INTEREST
CREDIT CARDS TO PAY FOR THE
SERVICES BECAUSE THEY CAN NO
LONGER ACCESS CREDIT COMMON
COUNCIL BEING USED FOR EVER
IN CALIFORNIA IT THE PROBLEM
THAT WE SEEM TO BE TRYING
TO ADDRESS WITH THIS BILL IS
THE FACT THAT THE PROPONENTS
BELIEVE THE COMMON COUNTS HAVE
LESS DOCUMENTATION REQUIREMENTS
IN COURT THAN SITTING ON A
CONTRACT HOWEVER WE NEGOTIATED
A BILL WITH SENATOR MARK
LENO AND THE CALIFORNIA
ATTORNEY GENERAL TO ENHANCE
DOCUMENTATION REQUIREMENTS FOR
DEBT BUYERS THAT WAS EXTENDED
TO DEBT COLLECTORS UNDER BILL
BY SENATOR CAL SKI THE PROPER
APPROACH TO DEALING WITH THIS
PROBLEM WOULD BE TO EXTEND
THOSE REQUIREMENTS TO CALLING
COUNTS NOT TO ELIMINATE THE USE
OF CALLING COUNTS IN CALIFORNIA
THIS IS A MEAT AXE APPROACH
TO A NARROW PROBLEM THAT COULD
BE ADDRESSED AND WORK THROUGH
IF THE PROPONENTS HAD TALKED
TO THE INTO STAKEHOLDERS
BEFORE PUTTING FOR THIS BILL
I RESPECTFULLY URGE YOUR NO
VOTE ON THIS MEASURE THANK
YOU FOR YOUR TESTIMONY NOW
WE WILL TURN TO OPPOSITION
IN THE ROOM SIMPLY STATE YOUR
NAME ORGANIZATION AND POSITION
THANK YOU GOOD AFTERNOON TURN
MEMBERS NAMELY PETRONE I'LL
HAVE TO HELP BRING CREDIT
UNION LEAGUE IN OPPOSITION
GOOD AFTERNOON CHAIR AND
MEMBERS OF THE GOAL LINE
ON BEHALF OF THE CALIFORNIA
COMMUNITY BANKING NETWORK
RESPECTFULLY OPPOSED
MISTER CHAIR MEMBERS JOE
LEVINE WITH PLATINUM VISORS
ON BEHALF OF THE RECEIVABLES
MANAGEMENT CORPORATE
ASSOCIATION IN OPPOSITION
A GOOD AFTERNOON ONE BOROUGH
TO CALIFORNIA -- OF COMMERCE
ALSO IN OPPOSITION SURE
MEMBERS MIGHT LOOK FOR THE
CALIFORNIA CREDITORS BAR
ASSOCIATION IN OPPOSITION MANY
OTHERS IN OPPOSITION C.
NINE WE WILL BRING THIS
BACK TO THE COMMITTEE FOR
QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS
THIS IS THE SAME NUMBER
PETRIE-NORRIS FROM LEFT ARE
AT I CAME IN MIDWAY THROUGH
YOUR PRESENTATION AND NINE
SIDE TRYING TO QUICKLY COME UP
TO SPEED ON THAT THE BELL AND
SMITH EIGHT THE ISSUES AT THEIR
BEING DEBATED HERE SO I HAVEN'T
AND I GUESS I I JUST FIRST
LIKE TO CLARIFY BECAUSE I'M
SOME OF THE CONCERNS RAISED BY
THE OPPOSITION PARTICULARLY IN
TERMS OF THE IMPACT THAT THIS
WOULD HAVE ON OUR NEIGHBORHOOD
DENNIS GARDNER IT'S ADDRESS
I THINK DO YOU RAISE CONCERNS
FOR ME SO I GUESS TWO QUESTIONS
IS THAT ACCURATE WITH THE
DENNIS NOW HAVE TO HAVE A
CONTRACT IN PLACE BEFORE THEY
WOULD ACTUALLY B.
LEGALLY -- ABLE TO PURSUE A
CLAIM -- AND THEN SECONDS AT
THEY BELIEVE I'M THERE AT A
POSITION TO REFRAME THAT IS
THAT AN UNCERTAINTY ABOUT WHITE
THE COMMON COUNCIL ENTERED
IS INSUFFICIENT -- SO I GUESS
YOU COULD ADDRESS DID THOSE
TWO QUESTIONS AND THEN LASTLY
I'M IS THE SUGGESTION THAT
FIVE THE OPPOSITION WITNESS
PROPOSED SOMETHING THAT
WOULD ADDRESS OUR CONCERNS
WITHOUT PERHAPS SOME OF THE
-- AND INTENDED CONSEQUENCES
THAT HAVE BEEN RAISED
THANK YOU I THROUGH THE CHAIR
THANK YOU ASSEMBLY MEMBER --
IF THE CLAIMS WERE ACCURATE
I WOULD BE CONCERNED TOO BUT
IT'S JUST NOT SOMETHING I
JOIN OPENED ACCOUNTS -- THE
COULD STILL SUE WITH RECORDS
OF ALL DEBITS AND CREDITS HAVE
A CONTRACT WAS ENTERED INTO
IN THE FIRST PLACE SO YOUR
NEIGHBORHOOD DENTISTS YOUR
GARDENER ALL THOSE ACCOUNTS SO
THE THAT ARE -- THE COMMISSION
ONCE YOU SIGN SOME BIG CONTRACT
AT A TIME AS LONG AS THEY
HAVE THE BOOKKEEPING TO SHOW
WHAT THE WHAT THE DEBTS ARE
-- THEY CAN ABSOLUTELY --
-- YOU KNOW THE DENTIST IS
STILL ABSOLUTELY USE THOSE
OPEN BOOK ACCOUNTS REALLY
THE OPPOSITION -- IS TALKING
YOU KNOW WHAT THE OPPOSITION
ALTHOUGH THEY'RE MENTIONING
SMALL BUSINESSES IS IS REALLY
THE DEBT BUYERS AND COLLECTORS
-- AND -- THAT THERE'S NO
REASON WHY THERE SHOULD BE NO
CONTRACT PRODUCED LIKE EVERY
OTHER BUSINESS WITHOUT THE SHOW
IN ORDER TO COLLECT THE DEBT
-- THEY DON'T WANT TO HAPPEN
NESTLE CHAU DOC CONTRACT BUT
FOR CONSUMERS I THINK KNOWING
WHAT THAT CONTRACT IS AND
HAVING TO SEE ONE IT I THINK
IS RELEVANT TO THE THIS IS NOT
ABOUT THE MOM AND POP LOCAL
NEIGHBORHOOD BUSINESS WHICH
STILL -- UNDER THIS LEGISLATION
WOULD HAVE THE ABILITY TO USE
OPEN BOOK ACCOUNTS TO PURSUE
-- YOU KNOW DEBTS OWED TO THEM
SELECTIVE BUT AND THERE ARE
SOME OTHER QUESTIONS YES HI
CAN YOU HEAR ME OKAY SO I JUST
I THINK THERE'S ALSO A LITTLE
BIT OF BUSINESS UNDERSTANDING
OF WHAT COMES CAL FAR SO AN
OPEN BOOK ACCOUNT IS A PART
IS BEING TAKEN TO THE MCCARTY
AND OPEN BOOK ACCOUNT IS A
COMMON ACCOUNT AND ACCOUNT
STATUS COMMON COUNCIL ALL
OF THESE CLAIMS ARE LUMPED
TOGETHER AS COMMON COUNTS
-- ASSEMBLY MEMBER CARLA IS
CORRECT THAT THIS BILL DOES
NOT REQUIRE ANYONE TO HAVE A
CONTRACT IF THEY DIDN'T HAVE
ONE TO BEGIN WITH SO IF THE
GARDENER MY GARDENER WE DON'T
HAVE CONTRACTS -- SO I PAYMENT
EVERY MONTH IF IF I DIDN'T PAY
HIM AND HE WANTED TO COLLECT
AGAINST ME THERE WOULDN'T BE
A CONTRACT HE CAN SUE ME ON AN
OPEN BOOK ACCOUNT HE CAN SUE ME
FOR GOODS AND SERVICES PROVIDED
THAT WERE NOT PAID FOR NOTHING
IN THIS BILL IS PROHIBITING
THAT -- THE OTHER DAY THE OTHER
THING THE OTHER QUESTION WAS
ABOUT HOW WILL THIS AFFECT
THE SMALL BUSINESSES THAT
DENTIST OFFICE IT'S THIS IS
CC MY ANSWER ABOVE HER ARM IF
THE CALL IF THE DENTISTS NEVER
ENTERED INTO A CONTRACT WITH
THEIR PATIENT THEY CAN CONTINUE
DO SO ON AN OPEN BOOK ACCOUNT
THEY WOULD JUST NEED TO SHOW AN
OPEN BOOK MEANING EVERY SINGLE
CREDIT EVERY SINGLE DEBIT EVERY
SINGLE TRANSACTION THAT'S WHAT
AN OPEN BOOK ACCOUNT IS -- THE
QUESTION IN TERMS OF WHY NOW
IF COM ACCOUNTS HAVE BEEN USED
FOR EVERYONE NOW BACKING UP AND
I'M SORRY I'M A LAWYER IN THE
ROOMS -- COMING COUNTER CLAIMS
RIGHT SO THAT'S SOMETHING THAT
YOU HAVE IF YOU DON'T HAVE A
LEGAL REMEDY AT LAW WHEN YOU
HAVE A CONTRACT YOU HAVE A
REMEDY AT LAW YOU DON'T HAVE
TO GO AFTER AN EQUITABLE CLAIM
SO WHY HAVE THEY BEEN USED
BECAUSE DEBT COLLECTORS HAVE
BEEN ABLE TO DO IT BECAUSE
THERE AREN'T ENOUGH OF MEANS
AND THERE AREN'T ENOUGH DESERT
HIS TO TO GO INTO EVERY COURT
CASE AND SAY THIS IS A BREACH
OF CONTRACT THEY NEED TO SHOW
THE CONTRACT THIS IS WHERE THE
DEFAULT YOU'RE COMING FROM THE
THE OPPOSITION IN THEIR -- WHAT
THEY PROVIDED TO TO COUNCIL
INDICATES THAT EVERY SINGLE
LAWSUIT IS REVIEWED BY EVERY
SINGLE CLERK BY EVERY SINGLE
JUDGE THAT'S SIMPLY NOT TRUE
ON THESE DEFAULTER ENTERED
WITH THE STAMP ON A PIECE OF
PAPER THE THE IDEA THAT --
THESE EQUITABLE CLAIM SHOULD BE
USED BECAUSE SOMEONE HAS LOST
OR DESTROYED OR MANIPULATED
A CONTRACT IS JUST CONTRARY
TO BASIC AGREEMENTS AND
MEETING OF THE MINDS AND THE
REQUIREMENT THAT THINGS SHOULD
BE UNDERSTOOD AND AGREED TO
BEFORE SOMEONE IS SUIT ON IT I
THINK I ANSWERED YOUR QUESTIONS
YES BUT I WOULD LOVE TO JUST
THAN HERE IF THE OPPOSITION
TO CLARIFY BECAUSE WHAT I JUST
HEARD IS THAT THE CONCERNS
YOU RAISED OUR DOT DOT WITH
THROUGH ANOTHER MECHANISM SAID
THAT OUR NEIGHBORHOOD DENNIS
GARDNER IT CENTER WOULD WOULD
ACTUALLY HAVE A REMEDY YEAH
WE RESPECTFULLY DISAGREE WITH
THE PROPONENTS WE BELIEVE THAT
THE BILL AS INTRODUCED CLEARLY
PROHIBITED BRINGING THE CALLING
COUNTS ON AN OPEN BOOK ACCOUNT
THE AMENDMENTS THAT WERE TAKEN
IN JUDICIARY WHICH ARE NOT IN
THE BILL -- TRIED TO ADDRESS
IT BY THEN YOU HEARD THE WORD
WHEN SHE TESTIFIED ALL ALSO
THE LANGUAGE OF THE AD WHICH
IS NOT IN THE BILL REQUIRES
THE DENTIST BRING THE OPEN BOOK
ACCOUNTS TO HAVE ALL THE DEBITS
AND CREDITS GOING BACK THE
WAY RE READ IT FOR EVER ON THE
ACCOUNT WHICH IS THE PROBLEM
IT CREATES A IT IS IMPOSSIBLE
AN AMBIGUOUS STANDARD WE'RE
HAPPY TO WORK WITH THEM IF THEY
WOULD CLARIFY THE LOCAL LAW IF
THAT'S WHAT THEIR INTENT IS BUT
THE BILL AS WE READ IT CREATES
STILL CREATES A SIGNIFICANT
OBSTACLE BECAUSE REQUIRES ALL
ALL RECORDS ALL RIGHT WE'LL
RULED MAINTAINED QUORUM --
ASSEMBLY MEMBER PETRIE-NORRIS
DID THAT ANSWER YOUR QUESTION
FROM OPPOSITION YES IT DID
AND IT'S BEEN I GUESS MY
REQUEST FROM THE AUTHOR IS
EITHER TELL ME ALREADY HAVE OR
YOU KNOW ARE YOU FIVE WILLING
TO WORK WITH HIM OPPOSITION
TO ENSURE THAT WE DO NOT HAVE
AN IMPOSSIBLE AN AMBIGUOUS
STANDARD THAT WOULD RESULT IN
UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES FOR
AS I SAID THE IN THE FUNDS
ARE IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD SMALL
BUSINESSES WHO NEEDS TO BELIEVE
THAT THEY'RE GONNA GET PAID AND
HAVE YOU KNOW ABILITY TO MAKE
A CLAIM IF THEY CAN'T WELL YEAH
ABSOLUTELY IN FACT I'VE EVEN
HAD A CONSTANT CONVERSATION
WITH THE CHAIR ABOUT THAT
MAKING SURE THAT WE'RE NOT
-- YOU KNOW THAT'S NOT THE
INTENTION IN FACT IF YOU LOOK
AT PAGE SEVEN OF THE STOCK
ANALYSIS IN IN NUMBER EIGHT
UNDER THE AMENDMENTS -- THERE
WERE SOME OF MEMBERS THAT WERE
SUPPOSED TO BE -- ENTERED INTO
THROUGH THE DRAINAGE DISTRICT
COMMITTEE THAT WE'RE NOT BUT
-- IS NOW IN THE LATEST VERSION
BILL THAT I THINK DOES HELP TO
FURTHER DEFINE ACCOUNT BUT --
ABSOLUTELY MORE THAN WILLING
TO CONTINUE TO WORK ON THAT
IF THE COMMITTEE OF SEES -- IT
NECESSARY TO DO SO THANK YOU
VERY MUCH THANK YOU ASSEMBLY
MEMBER BARRICADE AND IF I MAY
I THINK THE OPPOSITION REWORDED
THE QUESTION WHICH IS WHY THERE
WAS A DISAGREEMENT SHE'S NOT
SAYING THAT YOU CAN BRING A
COMMON COUNT ON AN OPEN BOOK
WHICH IS WHAT YOU WERE SAYING
SHE SAID YOU CAN SOLVE AN
OPEN BOOK ACCOUNT AND YOU CAN
BRING A LAWSUIT UNDER THE NEW
MECHANISM YEAH SHE WOULD AGREE
WITH YOU SHE'S GETTING RID
OF THE COMMON COUNT OPEN BOOK
SHE'S GETTING INCOME ACCOUNTS
SO I THINK YOU ACTUALLY BOTH
AGREED ABOUT THE FACT THAT OPEN
BOOK STILL EXISTS YOU'RE JUST
DISAGREEING ON THE MECHANISM
-- SO I JUST WANT TO SAY THAT
BECAUSE THAT WAS A FRUSTRATING
-- BACK AND FORTH M.
BECAUSE I THINK THERE'S NO
QUESTION THAT OPEN BOOK STILL
EXISTS IN THIS BILL AND I AGREE
WITH YOU MISTER KALRA -- BUT
I WILL SAY I GUESS I HAVE TO
CAN POINT OF CONFUSION ONE
WAS -- THIS QUIZ YOU SAID THAT
YOU WOULD HAVE TO KEEP THESE
DOCUMENTS FOR TWENTY FIVE YEARS
BUT YOU WOULD KNOW THE STATUE
LIMITATIONS IS FOUR YEARS SO
YOU'D HAVE TO BRING ONE OF
THESE CLAIMS WITHIN FOUR YEARS
SO TWENTY FIVE YEARS FROM NOW
I JUST FEEL LIKE I GUESS I'M
CONFUSED BY THAT NOTION THAT
ONE WOULD HAVE TO KEEP THE
DOCUMENTS FOR TWENTY FIVE YEARS
GIVEN THE STATURE LIMITATIONS
YEAH THE IT'S THE WORD ALL
WHICH HAS BEEN REFERRED SEVERAL
TIMES IN THIS CONVERSATION SO
LIKE I SAID FEDERAL LAW GOVERNS
HOW LONG WE HAVE TO KEEP THOSE
CONTRACTS THE WORD ALL IN HERE
WE INTERPRET THAT AS SOMETHING
DIFFERENT I THINK THAN THAT
PROPONENTS JAIL THE WORD ALL
IS CONCERNING SO I MEAN MY GAS
IS YOUR CAR GIVEN WHAT I THINK
YOUR INTENT IS HERE YOUR INTENT
IS NOT FOR THEM TO HAVE TOLD
UNDER CONTRACTS IN PERPETUITY
AND GIVEN THE STATURE
LIMITATIONS I DON'T THAT MAKES
ANY SENSE SO I WOULDN'T I WOULD
IMAGINE FOR YEARS I MEAN NOW
IT'S TWENTY FIVE MONTHS AS I
READ AND AND FEDERAL OUR CARS
TWENTY FIVE MONTHS THAT WOULD
I CAN'T BEAR WITH ME NOW SAID
BUT THERE'S SOME REQUIREMENT
TO HOLD DOCUMENTS NOW YES
IT MIGHT BE EXTENDED TO THE
STATURE LIMITATIONS WHICH IS
FOUR YEARS BUT I ASSUME YOU
CAN WORK SOMETHING OUT TO
ENSURE THAT THEY'RE NOT HOLDING
IN PERPETUITY THAT SEEMS
UNNECESSARY AND NOT NECESSARY
UNDER THE BILL GIVEN THAT
THERE'S SPECIAL EDUCATION SO
I WILL SAY HOPEFULLY WORK ON
THAT CONFESSING LIKE FROM THE
IT'S EASILY RESOLVABLE AB AND
THEN I GUESS PART OF WHAT I AM
INCLINED TO SUPPORT THIS BILL
BECAUSE I DON'T REALLY QUITE
UNDERSTAND WHY THE OPPOSITION
IS ARGUING THAT THERE SHOULD
BE A LOWER STANDARD I MEAN
THAT'S REALLY FUNDAMENTALLY
THE DEBATE HERE RIGHT IT'S
THE AUTHOR IS ASKING FOR THE
REGULAR STANDARD TO APPLY TO
THESE CONTRACT DISPUTES AND
THE OPPOSITION IS ARGUING
THAT THE STATUS QUO WHICH IS
A LOWER STANDARD SHOULD APPLY
I UNDERSTAND THE ARGUMENT FOR
A HIGHER STANDARD I THINK YOU
GUYS LAID IT OUT PRETTY WELL
SOMEONE WHO STILL ENTER FREE
BCLC I THINK THAT THEY HAVE
THE BEST OF INTENTIONS AT HEART
WHEN HERE TALKING FOR THEIR
CLIENTS -- SO CAN YOU GUYS
EXPLAIN TO ME WHY THAT LOWER
STANDARD IS NECESSARY -- WHERE
WE'RE NOT ARGUING FOR LOWER
STANDARD WE'RE DIFFERENT WE
ARE ARGUING FOR A DIFFERENT
APPROACH TO SATISFYING THE
CONCERNS REGARDING ADDITIONAL
DOCUMENTATION SO AS I MENTIONED
EARLIER WE PASSED A LENO BILL
ON THE FAIR DEBT BUYERS ACT
WHICH WAS INTENDED TO INCREASE
DOCUMENTATION STANDARDS FOR
OLD SUITS BROUGHT BY DEBT
BUYERS FOR COLLECTION AGENCIES
IT SEEMS TO US THAT EXTENDING
THOSE SAME REQUIREMENTS A
COMMON COUNTS RATHER THAN A
LIMITING THE COMMON COUNTS WE
HAVE THE SAME NET EFFECT BUT
WOULD AVOID ELIMINATION OF THE
COMMON ACCOUNTS WHICH HAVE BEEN
PART OF CALIFORNIA LAW FOREVER
-- SO WHEN YOU THE REASON
YOU HAVE HIGHER STANDARDS ON
THE WRITTEN EMAIL ARGUABLY IS
BECAUSE YOU HAVE STATUTES ON
THE BOOKS THE REQUIRED I MEAN
YOU COULD EXTEND THE STATUTES
TO THE COMMON COUNCIL ALONE
IN INCOME ACCOUNTS BUT I THINK
YOU GUYS WANT TO LIMIT COUNTY
COUNTS YES OKAY SO I THINK
THEY WANT TO ELIMINATE COMIC
I THINK WELL LET ME IT HAS
LESS OF AN ENTRY STANDARDS
OR DOC RIGHT RIGHT YES THAT'S
WHAT I'M SAYING IS I THINK YOU
THINK THERE SHOULD BE A LOWER
STANDARD NO WE THINK WE SHOULD
HAVE THE SAME SEE YOU LATER
TODAY SHOULD APPLY WHICH IS
A LOWER STANDARD THAN THE ONE
THEY'RE ARGUING FOR RIGHT AND
WHAT I STILL DON'T UNDERSTAND
IS WHY YOU THINK A LOWER
STANDARD SHOULD APPLY BUT WE
DON'T WANT TO LOWER STANDARDS
WE'RE HAPPY WE'RE HAPPY TO
AGREE TO MORE DOCUMENTATION
STANDARDS WE JUST DON'T THINK
HE'S ELIMINATE COMMON COUNCIL
YES PEOPLE DON'T HAVE WRITTEN
CONTRACTS INTO REQUIRING YOU TO
BRING AN ACCOUNT ON A WRITTEN
AN ACTION ON A WRITTEN CONTRACT
WHEN THEY DON'T EXIST AS A
MAKE ANY SENSE SO I DON'T THINK
THAT THEY'RE SAYING YOU HAVE TO
BRING ACTION A WRITTEN CONTRACT
I THINK THEY'VE ALREADY SAID
THAT YOU CAN BRING AN ACTION
OPEN BOOK ACCOUNT WHICH I AGREE
WITH THEY WANT TO GET RID OF
THE COMMON COUNT BECAUSE IT
REQUIRES A LOWER BURDEN THEY
WOULD LAKE IF SOMEBODY'S COMING
AFTER YOU WANT TO CONTRACT
BE AN OPEN BOOK OR WRITTEN
CONTRACT OR CONTRACT THERE'S
ALL SORTS OF KINDS OF CONTRACTS
AS WE ALL KNOW THAT YOU HAVE
TO GO INTO COURT AND YOU HAVE
TO PROVE THAT UNDER CONTRACT
LAW THAT'S WHAT I UNDERSTAND
IS THE INTENT OF THE BILL YOU
WANT THE COMMON COUNTY STATE
NOW I UNDERSTAND THAT THE LOWER
I WHAT I THINK IS HAPPENING
HERE IS YOU THE DEBT COLLECTORS
BENEFIT FROM NOT HAVING TO MEET
THAT BURDEN BUT CALIFORNIANS
ARE SUFFERING BECAUSE THAT
BURDEN ISN'T MATT RIGHT THEY
PEOPLE IN POVERTY OR HAVING
TO PAY DEBTS WITHOUT ANY BIRD
REASONABLE BURDEN PUT ON TO
THE PERSON TRYING TO GET THEIR
DEBT WHICH IS WHAT THEY'RE
SAYING SO I GUESS THAT'S AT
THE END OF THE DAY THE FIGHT
THAT IS HAPPENING HERE IS WHAT
IS THE PROPER BURDEN OF PROOF
FOR SOMEONE TRYING TO COLLECT
ON A DEBT AND I DON'T THINK
THAT THERE'S ANY AND I'VE NOT
HEARD A RATIONAL REASON WHY
THESE TYPES OF DEBT COLLECTION
SHOULD HAVE A LOWER BURDEN
THAN IF I GOT INTO A CONTRACT
DISPUTE WITH MISS WILSON I
WOULD HAVE TO GO INTO COURT
ON A REGION CONTRACT CLAIM
AND SHOW THE LEVEL OF EVIDENCE
MISTER KALRA IS ASKING FOR
SO I GUESS CONSISTENCY WOULD
SUPPORT THIS BUT I GUESS I'VE
GOTTEN THE ANSWERS THAT WE
GET THANK YOU OTHER I AM NOW
SUBSTITUTING FOR THE CHAIR
ARE THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS
THAT THE COMMITTEE HI I HAVE A
QUESTION JUST TO SORT THROUGH
ALL THE LAWYER TALK WHICH WHICH
HAS BEEN VERY HELPFUL BUT AT
THE END OF THE DAY WE DO WANT
TO HELP THIS CLEARLY THE SMALL
BUSINESS APRIL GARDENERS JANICE
WHATEVER THEY ARE FLOWER PEOPLE
WHATEVER TO AVOID HAVING TO GO
TO COURT TO SETTLE A DISPUTE
ON AN AGREEMENT OF AMOUNT
OWED SO ARE YOU AS SEES --
THIS PROPONENTS SAYING THAT
THE ACT WHAT ARE THEY CALLED
COMMON ACCOUNTS SHOULD BE JUST
THIS BUT DISPENSED WITH YOU'RE
SAYING THAT THEY WOULD STILL
EXIST SO MY AGREEMENT WITH MY
GARDENER -- AND THE AMOUNT OWED
AND IF I IF I MISSED A PAYMENT
FOR SOME REASON -- HE DOESN'T
NEED TO TAKE ME TO COURT IF I
MISS A PAYMENT OF TO HIM FOR
HIS OF ABOUT I OWE TO HIM DOES
HE HAVE RECOURSE TO GET THAT
MONEY BACK WHAT THE AMOUNT BY
SHALL WE LOOK AT THE END OF THE
DAY IF SOMEONE REFUSES TO PAY
FOR SOMETHING ULTIMATELY THE
RECOURSE IS GOING TO COURT OF
COURSE BUT THE IDEA OF THIS IS
THAT THEY WOULDN'T HAVE HAD TO
PRODUCE A CONTRACT THAT NEVER
EXISTED THEY CAN USE THEIR
OPEN BOOKS WHICH THEY CAN USE
THEIR DEBIT SO YOU KNOW I DID
THE SERVICE I WAS -- THIS MUCH
DEBT IN PAPERWORK THAT'S THAT'S
THE EVIDENCE THEY CAN GO TO
COURT WITH I THINK ULTIMATELY
THE CALMING CAL CONCEPT WAS
ONLY MEANT AND THOSE KIND OF
SCENARIOS WHEN YOU HAD YOUR
NEIGHBORHOOD GROCERY STORE
THAT A LEDGER -- IF YOU HAVE
YOUR GARDENER THAT COMES YOU
KNOW IN THAT SCENARIO A LOT
OF FOLKS HAVE DOT DOT IS THE
CONCEPT THAT REALLY LED TO
THE IDEA COM ACCOUNTS NOT DEBT
COLLECTORS BUYING CONTRACTS UP
BUYING BUYING UP GOTTEN COMING
OUT TO YOU THAT AND THAT'S THAT
IS NOT THE CONCEPT UNDER WHICH
COM ACCOUNTS WERE CREATED WE'RE
STILL GOING TO ALLOW FOR THOSE
SMALL BUSINESSES TO CONTINUE
TO PURSUE THE DEBTS OWED TO
THEM WITHOUT HAVING TO SHOW A
CONTRACT BY JUST SHOWING THE
LEDGER OF WHAT IS OWED WHAT
SERVICES WERE PROVIDED OKAY
I JUST WANT ANSWERED LIMON --
WHO SPOKE IN OPPOSITION I DID
IT WAS THAT YOU MENTIONED THAT
THERE WERE VERY FEW CASES OF
THIS A HUNDRED AND SOME CASES
OVER A LONG PERIOD OF TIME
WHAT KINDS OF CASES THAT IS
WHAT THE PROPONENTS ARE CITING
THAT SO THE PROPONENTS CITE
A HUNDRED AND ECONOMIC SORRY
THE PROPONENT SIDE A HUNDRED
AND EIGHTEEN CASES OVER A
FIVE YEAR PERIOD MANY OF WHICH
HAPPENED BEFORE FAIR DEBT
COLLECTION WENT INTO A FACT
WHICH IS OUR CONCERN I THINK
AND THAT'S PROBABLY DUMB TELLS
A LITTLE BIT I AM INTERESTED
IN OUR POWER KEY HAS CONCERNS
AS WELL I THINK THAT A LOT
OF OUR CONCERN IS BECAUSE
WE DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT THE
ISSUES ARE WITH COMMON COUNT
NOW IN ORDER TO NECESSITATE
SUCH A DRASTIC CHANGE TO MY
COLLEAGUES POINT EVIDENTIARY
STANDARDS WERE HAPPY TO TALK
ABOUT ADDING MORE DOCUMENTATION
TO A COMIC CAL I DON'T THINK
WE UNDERSTAND THAT THE HUNDRED
EIGHTEEN CASES NECESSITATE
A CHANGE OF AN ELIMINATION
-- AND THAT'S KIND OF WHERE
I WAS GOING TO SO IT'S ONLY
BEEN ONE HUNDRED AND EIGHTEEN
CASES THAT ARE JUST DISPUTES
BETWEEN A SMALL GROCERY STORE
AND THEIR CUSTOMERS THANK THEIR
HUNDRED EIGHTEEN CASES THAT
SHE'S REFERRING TO WEARING
THE EXAMPLES OF ABUSE NOT ALL
THE CASES OUT THERE THAT ARE
ALL BROUGHT IN -- AND JUST TO
CLARIFY DEBT COLLECTORS AND
I DID BUYERS THE TERM SEEMS
TO BE USED INTERCHANGEABLY
BY SOME PEOPLE HERE THE DEBT
COLLECTOR IS REPRESENTING THE
ORIGINAL CREDITOR WHICH MAY
INDEED BE A SMALL BUSINESS
DEBT BUYER BUYS DEBT DEBT
COLLECTORS DON'T MY CLIENTS OR
THIRD PARTY ASSIGNEES WHO WERE
STANDING IN FOR THE ORIGINAL
CREDITOR I'M CLICKING WE HAVE
THE ORIGINAL CLUB FOR SOMEONE
TO PAY THEIR BILLS YEAH EXACTLY
MAKE SURE THAT THEY'RE GETTING
PAID FOR GOODS AND SERVICES
SO I MEAN THERE'S TWO SIDES OF
THE CONSUMER ARGUMENT WHICH IS
THERE'S LIKE THE CONSUMER WHO
OWES THE DEBT AND PROTECTING
THEIR RIGHTS BUT THE DEBT
COLLECTOR IS REPRESENTING
THE SMALL BUSINESS WHO CAN
GET PAPER GOODS OR SERVICES
OKAY ALL RIGHT THANK YOU
VERY MUCH THANK YOU VERY MUCH
SO AS YOU AS YOU'RE TALKING
AND DISCUSSING HOW YOU SAY
ONE THING AND ALL I SEE IS
HEAD SHAKING NO ON THE OTHER
SIDE AND THEN WHEN YOU SAY
SOMETHING I SEE TEMPERATURE
RISING ON HIS SIDE -- I I'M
ASSUMING THAT THERE HAVE BEEN
SOME CONVERSATIONS BETWEEN
OF THE AUTHOR AND OPPOSITION
WHERE YOU'VE BEEN ABLE TO GET
TOGETHER AND WORK OUT SOME I
THINK DIALOGUE I THINK MUCH
OF CONVERSATIONS ACTUALLY
HAPPENED AND WEBER AND VERY
GRATEFUL TO BUDGETARY AND
AND YOUR COMMITTEE STOP AS
WELL -- COMMITTEE STAFF WITH
SOMEBODY OPPOSITION CONCERNS
RAISED TO COMMITTEES STOP --
BUT WE'RE MORE THAN WILLING TO
CONTINUE THE CONVERSATIONS AND
ESPECIALLY TERMS DEFINITIONS I
UNDERSTAND UP IT'S IMPORTANT TO
MAKE SURE THE DEFINITIONS OVER
A VERY CLEAR SO WE DON'T HAVE
THE -- UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES
OF IMPACTS ON A LOCAL
NEIGHBORHOODS AND AN INDIVIDUAL
SMALL BUSINESSES COLLECTOR
DEBTS THAT'S NOT MORE THAN
WHAT YOU BOTTOM I'M MORE THAN
WILLING TO DO TO WORK COMMITTEE
STAFF OPPOSITION FOR FURTHER
CLARIFICATION AS NECESSARY I
APPRECIATE THAT ARE THERE ANY
OTHER QUESTIONS ASSEMBLY MEMBER
WAS CAN YOU CLARIFY -- FOR ME
AND WHEN YOU WHEN YOU GAVE THE
DEFINITION OF THE DIFFERENCE
BETWEEN A DEBT BUYER AND DEBT
COLLECTION THE DEBT COLLECTOR
IS STANDING IN -- AND PROXY
BASICALLY FOR THE PERSON WHO
WROTE THE ORIGINAL CREDITOR
WHAT TYPE OF DOCUMENTATION
IS REQUIRED WHETHER THROUGH
BEST PRACTICES ARE THROUGH
LAW ARE THEY REQUIRED TO GIVE
YOU IN ORDER TO STAND IN ON TO
COLLECT THAT DEBT SO THERE IS
CALIFORNIA HAS EXTENSIVE LAWS
ON DEBT COLLECTION WE HAVE
SOMETHING CALLED THE ROBINS
ROSENTHAL ACT WHICH REGULATES
IT NEAR THE FEDERAL FAIR DEBT
BUYERS ACT SO IT REQUIRES YOU
TO CONTACT THE THE CONSUMER IT
GOES THROUGH A WHOLE PROCESS
OF WHAT YOU HAVE TO SEND THEM
-- AND THEN -- IS SALAS LIKE
THE RIGHT OF THE CONSUMER
IF THEY DISPUTE THE DEBT
YOU HAVE TO STOP COLLECTION
ENTIRELY SO IT'S A IT'S A VERY
DETAILED AND LAID OUT PROCESS
IN THE LAW -- AND THEN THE
CONCERN THE LEGISLATURE HAD
THE ATTORNEY GENERAL HAD WAS A
DEBT BUYERS WERE DEALING WITH
OLDER GAS AND THE CONSUMER
MIGHT NOT RECOGNIZE THE --
DEATH AS BEING ALL THEIR DESKS
SO THAT'S WHAT WE PASSED THE
ONE A BILL TO ENHANCE THE
DOCUMENTATION REQUIREMENTS --
FORGET BUYERS IN PARTICULAR SO
HAPPY TO SHARE THAT WITH YOU
AT SOME POINT I DON'T HAVE ALL
THE DETAILS BUT IT'S A VERY
EXTENSIVE LIST OF DOCUMENTS
THAT HAVE TO BE PRESIDED AS
WELL AS A PROCESS THAT YOU
HAVE TO GO THROUGH THANK YOU
FOR EXPLAINING THE PROP THE
PROCESS PART I JUST WANTED
TO MAKE SURE I UNDERSTOOD
THAT WHEN YOU -- AS A DEBT
COLLECTOR NOT A DEBT BUYER
JUST ON THE DEBT COLLECTION
SITE WHEN YOU'RE TAKING THAT
DATA ARE YOU AB I JUST WANNA
MAKE SURE I UNDERSTOOD WHAT
INFORMATION YOU WERE GETTING
FROM THE THANK CREDIT ARE THEIR
ORIGINAL CREDITOR YEAH YOU'RE
REPRESENTING THE ORIGINAL
CREDITOR CLIENTS SO THEY THEY
GIVE YOU LIKE YOU KNOW WHAT
WHAT WHETHER IT'S A CONTRACT
OR WHETHER IT IS A RECEIPT
ARM AND ACCOUNT STATEMENTS
ETCETERA ETCETERA ETCETERA
OKAY AND THEN YOU'RE USING
THAT ON WHAT HAS BEEN REFERRED
TO THE LOWER STANDARD OF THE
COMMON COMMON COUNT I MEAN
THEORETICALLY I WOULD I WOULD
NOT ASSUME THAT EVERY DAY CLICK
THE COLLECTION ACTION THAT GOES
TO COURT IS BASED UPON A COMMON
COUNTY COULD BE BASED UPON THE
CONTRACT AND I AND I THINK IT'S
IMPORTANT FOR PEOPLE UNDERSTAND
THAT YOU DEBT COLLECTORS FOR
EXAMPLE IN CALIFORNIA -- HAVE
HUNDREDS HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS
OF CLIENTS WITH HUNDREDS
AND HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF
ACCOUNTS SO A RETAILER A BANK
I MEAN IT'S HUNDRED YOU'RE
NOT LIKE GETTING CLOSE BERG'S
ACCOUNT OR LAURIE WOULD YOU
KNOW LAURIE WILSON'S ACCOUNT
YOU'RE GETTING THE WHOLE BUNDLE
FOR MACY'S OF THE WHOLE BUNDLE
AND SO OF THOSE A VERY SMALL
FRACTION EVER GOING TO LAWSUIT
I MEAN WHAT I'VE BEEN TOLD BY
THE INDUSTRY IS SOMETHING LIKE
TWO PERCENT GO TO A LAWSUIT
BECAUSE THE MAIN GOAL IS TO
CONTACT THE CONSUMER WORK OUT
A PAYMENT PLAN AND GET THE PATE
GET THE GET THE DEBT PAID OFF
THROUGH SOME KIND OF AGREEMENT
NOT TO GO TO COURT IS GOING
TO COURTS ARE EXPENSIVE DEBT
COLLECTORS ALSO IN CALIFORNIA
IS THIRD PARTY SIGNEES ARE
BARRED FROM SMALL CLAIMS COURT
SO YOU HAVE TO HIRE A LAWYER
SB FILING FEES YEAH THANK YOU
AND ON TO THAT BRIEFLY UNDER SO
UNDER A COMMON COUNT PROCEEDING
WHICH IS THE ISSUE AT HAND
HERE IF -- COLLECTOR WERE
TO PURSUE THAT THERE'S MANY
INSTANCES WHERE THE COLLECTOR
PRESENTS A BILL SO STATEMENT
OF THE ACCOUNT SO FOR EXAMPLE
A CREDIT CARD STATEMENT RATHER
THAN THE ORIGINAL CONTRACT
BECAUSE THAT IS AN IMPLIED
AGREEMENT TO PAY AND THEN DOT
COLLECTOR WOULD HAVE TO BACK
IT UP BY A PREPONDERANCE OF
THE EVIDENCE AND PROOF OKAY
LATER AT A TIME WHEN ONE JUST
DISAPPEARED ADULT ME FOR A
MOMENT TO THE AUTHOR -- ONE OF
THE EXAMPLES THAT WERE USING
WAS A DENTIST AND I KNOW WHEN
I GO TO MY DENTIST EVERY TIME
I RECEIVE SERVICES I HAVE TO
ACTUALLY SIGN FOR THEM AND
SAY I AGREE THAT YEAH YOU CAN
DO THIS SERVICE WHATEVER DOES
THAT NOT CONSTITUTE A CONTRACT
OR IS THAT HI POSSIBILIDADE
DOBBS'S MENTION DOWN TO SIZE
ONE SAID IT THAT THERE WAS
A SCENARIO WHERE YOU KNOW I
THINK A GARDENER IS PROBABLY A
MORE APPROPRIATE OKAY SCENARIO
-- BUT BOTTOM LINE IS LOCAL
BUSINESS SMALL BUSINESS THAT
THAT MAY NOT BE MAY NOT BE IN
A CONTRACT THAT DOING THESE
ACTUAL SIGNING EVERY TIME YOU
GET SOME TYPE OF SERVICE YEAH
AND IT YOU KNOW I MEAN I THINK
NOWADAYS THE WAY THE INDUSTRY
FOR THE HEALTHCARE INDUSTRY
IS THAT IT PROBABLY IS A VERY
EXPENSIVE CONTRACT BUT THERE'S
PLENTY OF OTHER EXAMPLES OF
BUSINESSES LOCALLY BUT THERE IS
A NATIONAL GARDNER GARDNER IS
A PRETTY COMMON ONE OR SOMEONE
WHO DOES YOUR HAIR YOU KNOW
HOURS AND EXACTLY YEAH PELLAM
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS
SEEING THAT MISTER KALRA I DO
APPRECIATE YOUR PASSION TO --
PROTECT CONSUMERS AND -- FOR
THE WORK THAT YOU'RE TRYING TO
ACCOMPLISH AND YOUR ATTENTION
TO THIS BILL I I'VE HEARD THE
STORIES -- TO STAFF AND I DO
HAVE AN UNDERSTANDING -- --
IS FAR AS WERE SOME REFORM MAY
BE NEEDED I ALSO HAVE LISTEN
TO TESTIMONY TODAY AS WELL AS
HER BOTH SIDES -- TALKING --
WITH AND THROUGH THE COMMITTEE
STAFF AND UNDERSTAND THAT
IN SOME CASES IT SOUNDS LIKE
YOU'RE TALKING SOME REALLY
BUT THERE IS DEFINITIONS OR
CLARITY -- I UNDERSTAND THAT
SMALL BUSINESSES NOT YOUR
TARGET THAT MOM AND POPS
AND THAT -- -- OPEN BOOK --
ISN'T SOMETHING THAT YOU'RE
NECESSARILY GOING AFTER SO AS
YOU'RE MOVING FORWARD I WOULD
REALLY ENCOURAGE THAT -- THE
TWO PARTIES GET TOGETHER AND
REALLY TRY TO WORK OUT THE
LANGUAGE AND HAMMER OUT CLARITY
SO THAT WE'RE NOT -- SAYING ONE
THING AND ONCE AT THE TABLE AND
SHAKING HEADS NO ON THE OTHER
SIDE AND AT LEAST AT LEAST
COME TO A AGREEMENT TO DISAGREE
YEAH WE ALL AGREE THAT THAT'S
YOU KNOW THIS OF THAT SO WITH
THAT -- I DO UNDERSTAND THE
FRUSTRATION AND CONFUSION --
ON THE OPPOSITION SIDE THAT
RESONATES WITH ME -- A LOT AND
SO THAT IS THE CONTEXT WITH
THE COMMITTEES AMENDMENT --
REQUEST THAT WE'RE MAKING AND
I -- I BELIEVE I HEARD YOU SAY
YOU'RE ACCEPTING AMENDMENTS
THAT'S CORRECT ALL RIGHT SO
WITH THAT THE BILL CONTINUES TO
MOVE FORWARD MY STAFF AND I ARE
OPEN TO FURTHER CONVERSATIONS
ABOUT HOW TO FINE TUNE THE
PROPOSAL OR OTHERWISE ENSURE A
SMOOTH TRANSITION SO WITH THAT
DO I HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND
WE DO OKAY WITH THAT CHIEF
CLERK PLEASE CALL THE ROLL
AB FOURTEEN FOURTEEN THE
MOTION IS TO PASS AS AMENDED
GRAYSON ALL RIGHT GRAYSON
AYE CHAN BARKHANE HIM FIRE
HIM HIGH CERVANTES DIXON NO
TEXAN NOW MIKE FONG ALL RIGHT
BYE FONG HI GABRIEL ARIEL I
PETRIE-NORRIS THE TWO NORTH
ISAURIA SORRY I WALDRON
WICKS WILSON WILSON HIGH
THE BILL GETS OUT WAS SEVEN
VOTES WILL KEEP THE ROLE OPEN
FOR ABSENT MEMBERS THANK YOU
SO VERY MUCH AND NOW WE HAVE
THE -- ILLUSTRIOUS COMMITTEE
MEMBER ASSEMBLY MEMBER GABRIEL
PLEASE COME ASSEMBLY MEMBER
GABRIEL I AM GOING TO STEP
UP TO ANOTHER COMMITTEE I
WILL HAND IT OVER TO VICE
CHAIR AND BE BACK AS SOON AS
POSSIBLE I AN INTRODUCTION
YOU SEE
OKAY THE NEXT BILL AB FIFTY
FIVE FIFTY FOUR SOME WOMEN GAVE
BIRTH THANK YOU MADAM CHAIR
MEMBERS AND I WANT TO -- JUST
BEGIN BY SAYING THIS IS A MINOR
CLARIFYING BILL THAT IS SIMPLY
MEANT TO CLARIFY THE LAW THAT
THE LAWS AROUND STANDING FOR A
SOCIETY'S PROTECTION OF CRUELTY
TO ANIMALS IT IS A BIPARTISAN
BILL THAT WOULD MAKE CLEAR
THAT THEY HAVE STANDING TO FILE
A SPECIFIED CIVIL ACTIONS TO
ENJOYING BEHAVIOR -- IMPACTING
ANIMALS TO AND ENFORCE CIVIL
PROTECTION LAWS AND SO THAT IS
VERY MUCH LIMITED TO INJUNCTIVE
RELIEF AND THE IDEA HERE
IS REALLY TO AVOID WASTING
TIME AND COURT RESOURCES AND
PRIVATE RESOURCES ON COLLATERAL
LITIGATION AROUND STANDING
JUST TO CLARIFY THOSE ISSUES I
WANTED TO MAKE CLEAR AS I HAD
A CONVERSATION WITH THE CHAIR
THIS BILL IS NOW IN NO WAY
MEANT TO -- IMPACT PRODUCTION
AGRICULTURE IN THE STATE OF
CALIFORNIA THESE ISSUES HAVE
REALLY COME UP WITH MOSTLY
IN THE CONTEXT OF LITIGATION
INVOLVING PUPPY MILLS AND THERE
HAS BEEN SOME A LOT OF CLATTER
LITIGATION IN THE CASE ABOUT
WHETHER OR NOT SPCA'S HAVE
STATING THIS WOULD JUST CLARIFY
THAT SO AGAIN -- THE PRODUCTION
AGRICULTURE IS NOT AT ALL THE
TARGET OF THIS BILL -- I THINK
MY FAMILY IS AMONG THE LARGEST
CONSUMERS OF CHICKEN FINGERS
AND HOT DOGS IN THE STATE OF
CALIFORNIA SO WE'VE WE WANT
THAT TO CONTINUE WE SIMPLY
WANT TO WE SIMPLY WANT TO MAKE
SURE THAT THERE ISN'T A LOT
OF WASTED TIME AND ENERGY ON
COLLATERAL LITIGATION AROUND
STANDING ISSUES AND THE FOLKS
AT SPCA'S CAN GO AFTER THOSE
WHO ARE WHO ARE HARMING OUR
ANIMALS AND COMMITTING CRUELTY
AGAINST ANIMALS AND AND JUST TO
BE CLEAR THIS BILL DOES NOTHING
TO CHANGE THE -- THE THE THE
RIGHTS OR REMEDIES AROUND --
AROUND THE SUBSTANTIVE LAW
AROUND ANIMAL CRUELTY IT IS
SIMPLY PURELY CLARIFYING THE
PROCEDURE AND SO WITH THAT I
HAVE TEMPTED WITH ME TODAY TO
TESTIFY IN SUPPORT CHRISTOPHER
BERRY A MANAGING ATTORNEY FOR
OUR SPONSORED THE ANIMAL LEGAL
DEFENSE FUND AND -- WOULD
RESPECTFULLY REQUEST YOUR I.
S.
PLEASE PROCEED THANK YOU AND
GOOD AFTERNOON AT SHARE AND
MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE MY
NAME'S CHRISTOPHER BERRY A
MANAGING ATTORNEY AT THE ANIMAL
LEGAL DEFENSE FUND -- WHERE
I'VE WORKED FOR TWELVE YEARS
AND -- PARTICIPATING IN AN
AND NOW MANAGING LITIGATION
ON BEHALF OF ANIMALS IN THE
STATE'S SO UNDER CALIFORNIA
CORPORATIONS CODE TEN FOUR
HUNDRED ON THE LAW ISSUE HERE
-- THIS IS A LOT OF PASSED
OVER A HUNDRED YEARS AGO
AND -- IT GIVES S.
PCA'S THE AUTHORITY TO PROFFER
A COMPLAINT FOR THE VIOLATION
OF ANY LAW RELATING TO OR
AFFECTING ANIMALS AND WHILE
THE INTENT OF THE LEGISLATION
IS TO AUTHORIZE SPCA'S TO
FILE COMPLAINTS TO EFFECTIVELY
REMEDY AND PREVENT CRUELTY TO
ANIMALS IT HASN'T CONSISTENTLY
-- WORK THAT WAY IN PRACTICE
AND I CAN TELL YOU FROM MY
PERSONAL EXPERIENCE THAT
DEPENDENCE WILL USE -- THIS THE
OLD ARCHAIC LANGUAGE OF THE LAW
TO CREATE PROCEDURAL HURDLES --
DELAY LITIGATION AND AND TRY TO
ESCAPE -- -- IN ACCOUNTABILITY
-- ABOUT WITH THE YOU KNOW THE
ANIMALS ARE BEING ILLEGALLY
TREATED SO THERE ARE TWO
RECENT CASES THAT ILLUSTRATE
THE VALUE OF THIS PROVISION
-- ONE OF THE FIRST ONE IS
LOYALTY CANYON THIS INVOLVES
AN OPERATION WHERE SELLERS ARTS
DELETE SERIALLY ARRANGING THE
SALE OF PUPPIES ON CRAIGSLIST
UNSUSPECTING FAMILIES -- THE
FAMILIES MET SELLERS IN PARKING
LOTS AND PAID THOUSANDS OF
DOLLARS AT A PUPPY TO THEIR
FAMILIES -- BUT AS SOON AS THEY
BROUGHT THE PUPPIES HOME THE
PUPPIES EXHIBITED SYMPTOMS LIKE
DIARRHEA VOMITING AND LETHARGY
-- AND THEY QUICKLY DISCOVERED
THAT THE PUPPIES WERE SOLD
DEATHLY ILL WITH DISEASES LIKE
GIARDIA EXCUSE ME GIARDIA AND
PARVOVIRUS WHICH ARE CONTRACTED
IN CONTAMINATED ENVIRONMENTS
SEVERE OFTEN FATAL AND VERY
DIFFICULT AND EXPENSIVE TO
TREAT OTHER FAMILIES FOUGHT
HARD TO KEEP THE PUPPIES ALIVE
BUT AND IN THE END IN THIS
LAWSUIT INVOLVING SIX PUPPIES
-- DIRECTLY ONLY ONE OF THE THE
PUPPIES WHAT ONE MIGHT BE THAT
SURVIVED DOZENS OF DOGS WERE
FOUND AT THE SELLER'S PROPERTY
IN UNSANITARY CONDITIONS THEY
DIED THE PUPPIES GOLDEN BROWN
-- IT AND IN ORDER TO PASS THEM
OFF AS SPECIALTY GOLDENDOODLE
BREEDS -- THEY SOLD THE DOGS
UNDER AGE BEFORE THEIR IMMUNE
SYSTEMS HAD PROPERLY DEVELOPED
FABRICATED VACCINATION RECORDS
AND USE APPS TO CREATE BURNER
PHONES TO EVADE RESPONSIBILITY
DESPITE THE AWARENESS BY
TRADITIONAL GOVERNMENT LAW
ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES THE
OPERATION CONTINUED FOR YEARS
AND I WAS ONLY WHEN THE CIVIL
LAWSUIT WAS FILED -- THAT
IT THAT INCLUDED A CLAIM TO
PREVENT CRUELTY UNDER SECTION
TEN FOUR OH FOUR AT ISSUE
HERE THAT A COURT ENTERED A
PRELIMINARY INJUNCTION TO STOP
THE FUTURE SALES UNDER THIS
SCHEME -- AND TO DISAPPROVE
WE MENTION THE SECOND CASE
THAT I HAD TALKED ABOUT AS
WELL -- THAT CASE KIRU SPCA
THE ANTHONY IT INVOLVES --
HOARDING DOZENS OF DOGS IN
UNSANITARY CONDITIONS ANIMAL
CONTROL REPORTS AND EYEWITNESS
TESTIMONY OVER THE COURSE
OF SEVERAL YEARS DOCUMENTED
-- QUOTE THE SMELL OF URINE
AND FECES SO STRONG I COULD
SMELL ACROSS THE STREET WHERE
I PARKED MY TRUCK A QUOTE IT
SMELLS HEAVILY OF URINE AND
FECES AND ALSO QUOTE D.
EXCEPTIONALLY STRONG SMELL
OF FECES AT THE PROPERTY --
THE DOCUMENTED AT TIMES ABOUT
TWENTY AND OUT WHAT ONE POINT
AT LEAST FIFTY DOGS DOCUMENTED
BY ANIMAL CONTROL REPORTS AND
ALL THE CITATIONS AND WARNINGS
WERE OCCASIONALLY ISSUED ACTION
TO DEFINITIVELY SHUT DOWN
THE LEAP LEGAL OPERATIONS NOT
PURSUED BY THE TRADITIONAL
GOVERNMENT LAW ENFORCEMENT
DUE TO LIMITED RESOURCES A
CIVIL ACTION BROUGHT BY AN
SPCA RESULTED IN A PERMANENT
INJUNCTION ENTERED IN THAT
CASE PROTECTING DOGS IN SQUALID
CONDITIONS -- SO JUST FINISHED
WITH A COUPLE POINTS HERE NOT
A PET OPPONENTS CONTEND THAT
THE BILL WILL LEAD TO FRIVOLOUS
LAWSUITS BROUGHT TO HARASS
AGRICULTURAL INTERESTS BUT THIS
BILL IS JUST A CLARIFICATION
OF WHAT EXISTING LAW ALREADY
ALLOWS AND THERE ARE NUMEROUS
SAFEGUARDS AGAINST ABUSE OF
THE LEGAL SYSTEM AND REALLY
NO EVIDENCE THAT THE LEGAL
SYSTEM IS BEING OR WILL BE
USED IN AN IMPROPER WAY AND I
ALSO WANT TO EMPHASIZE THIS IS
NOT A BILL SPECIALLY TARGETING
AGRICULTURE IT IS LEGAL TO
RAISING KILL ANIMALS FOR FOOD
IN CALIFORNIA AND THAT WILL
CONTINUE TO BE TRUE AFTER THE
PASSAGE OF THIS LEGISLATION
-- ANIMAL CRUELTY IS A HIGH
BAR REQUIRING SOMEONE TO ABUSE
OR NEGLECT AN ANIMAL -- WITH
MALICE OR INTENT IN ORDER TO
IN ORDER TO BE VIOLATING THAT
LAW SO THE PROPOSED LANGUAGE
HERE IN AB FIVE FIFTY FOUR
SIMPLY PROVIDES AN IMPORTANT
CLARIFICATION THE SPCA'S DO IN
FACT HAVE STANDING TO OBTAIN
AN INJUNCTION TO PREVENT
ANIMAL CRUELTY THIS WILL SAVE
COUNTLESS TIME PREVENT THE
DELAY OF CRUELTY PREVENTION
EFFORTS WHICH CAN BE DELAYED
FOR YEARS WHEN PROCEDURAL
ISSUES LIKE THIS -- BECOME A
FOCUS SO THANK YOU FOR YOUR
CONSIDERATION OF THIS IMPORTANT
MEASURE AND I RESPECTFULLY
ASK FOR YOUR IPHONE
I APPRECIATE YOUR COMMENTS AND
CLARIFICATION BECAUSE ARE ALL
KINDS OF CONCERNS THAT DAIRY
COWS AND EGGS AND RODEOS HOW
IT WOULDN'T RODEO ANIMALS BE
AFFECTED BY THIS BILL ANIMALS
I GUESS BULLS AND HORSES PARTED
HELPS HIS FATE I JUMPED THE
GUN HERE -- LET'S GO TO OTHER
SPEAKERS WHO ARE HERE TO SPEAK
IN SUPPORT PLACE THANK YOU
GOOD AFTERNOON NICHOLAS
SACKETT FOR SOCIAL COMPASSION
IN LEGISLATION IN SUPPORT
ANY OTHER SPEAKERS IN
SUPPORT PLEASE COME FORWARD
HOW ABOUT SPEAKERS IN
OPPOSITION PLEASE COME FORWARD
OKAY C.
THANK YOU HI GOOD AFTERNOON
CHAIR MEMBERS MY NAME IS KIRK
WILBUR I'M WITH THE CALIFORNIA
CATTLEMEN'S ASSOCIATION AND
WE ARE RESPECTFULLY OPPOSED TO
AB FIVE FIFTY FOUR WHICH WOULD
CREATE A NEW CIVIL CAUSE OF
ACTION FOR SPCA'S TO SUE FOR
ALLEGED VIOLATIONS OF ANIMAL
PROTECTION LAWS ANIMAL HEALTH
AND WELL BEING IS OF THE UTMOST
IMPORTANCE TO CALIFORNIA'S
CATTLE RANCHERS WHO WORK VERY
CLOSELY WITH VETERINARIANS
UNDERTAKE CONTINUING EDUCATION
IN ORDER TO ALWAYS BE ON THE
CUTTING EDGE OF ANIMAL WELFARE
WITHIN THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA
DESPITE CALIFORNIA HAVING
THE HIGHEST ANIMAL WELFARE
STANDARDS IN THE NATION HOWEVER
THERE EXIST INDIVIDUALS AND
GROUPS WITHIN THE STATE OF
CALIFORNIA WHO SIMPLY BELIEVE
THAT ANIMAL AGRICULTURE ITSELF
CONSTITUTES ABUSE SOME OF THESE
GROUPS GO TO EXTREME LENGTHS
TO DISRUPT WRENCHING ACTIVITY
PLUS SOME WILL STEAL ANIMALS
OFFER FARMS AND RANCHES UNDER
THE EUPHEMISM OF OPEN RESCUE
FOR THESE GROUPS THERE IS
SIMPLY NO STANDARD OF CARE
THAT MY RANGERS CAN ADOPT WHICH
WILL SATISFY THEM ASSEMBLY
BILL FIVE FIFTY FOUR WOULD
EMPOWER THESE ILL INTENTIONED
GROUPS TO INFLICT IRREPARABLE
REPUTATIONAL AND FINANCIAL
HARM UPON RANGERS UTILIZING
EVEN THE HIGHEST STANDARDS OF
CARE THAT IS BECAUSE OF THE
PARTICULARLY LOW BAR WITH WHICH
AN ORGANIZATION CAN QUALIFY
AS AN SPCA UNDER CALIFORNIA
LAW SPECIFICALLY ANY GROUP OF
TWENTY INDIVIDUALS WITHIN THE
STATE OF CALIFORNIA TWENTY
CITIZENS I CAN INCORPORATE AS
AN SPCA SIMPLY BY REFERENCING
CORPORATIONS CODE SECTION TEN
FOUR HUNDRED IN THEIR ARTICLES
OF INCORPORATION THAT IS AN
INCREDIBLY LOW BAR TODAY SPCA'S
CAN PROFFER A COMPLAINT IN A
CRIMINAL COURT BUT ULTIMATELY
IT IS UP TO A PROSECUTOR TO
FAT WHETHER THERE IS IN FACT
A VIOLATION OF SUBSTANTIVE LAW
WHETHER THERE IS SUFFICIENT
EVIDENCE TO PROSECUTE THAT
VIOLATION AND WHETHER FILING
THAT KATE CASES JUSTIFIED AB
FIVE FIFTY FOUR REMOVES THIS
UNBIASED EVALUATION ALLOWING
ANY TWENTY INDIVIDUALS WITHIN
THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA NO
MATTER HOW ILL INTENTIONED
AND ILL WILLED TO DIRECTLY
FILE WARRANTLESS FOR HARASSING
LAWSUITS AGAINST RANGERS AND
OTHER ANIMAL CARETAKERS IN
CIVIL COURTS AT A MINIMUM WE
BELIEVE THIS BILL SHOULD BE
SIGNIFICANTLY NARROWED TO APPLY
TO ABUSE DIRECTED TYPICAL PET
ANIMALS I INCLUDING POPULAR
HILLS AS WE HAVE UNDERSTOOD
AND APPRECIATE THE AUTHOR
CLARIFYING IS THE INTENT OF
THIS BILL RATHER THAN ENABLING
HARASSMENT AGAINST ANIMAL
AGRICULTURE AND OTHER STEWARDS
OF ANIMALS AS WE BELIEVE
THE LANGUAGE WOULD CURRENTLY
ALLOW TO BE CLEAR WE STRONGLY
ABHOR ANY ANIMAL ABUSE AND WE
BELIEVE THAT THOSE INDIVIDUALS
WHO PRACTICE ANIMAL ABUSE OR
CRUELTY TO ANIMALS SHOULD BE
PROSECUTED TO THE FULL EXTENT
OF THE LAW IN CRIMINAL COURTS
BUT BECAUSE EIGHTY FIVE FIFTY
FOUR WE BELIEVE IS RIPE FOR
ABUSE IN THE CIVIL COURTS --
WE MUST OPPOSE IT AND WE URGE
YOUR NO VOTE THANK YOU THANK
YOU PLEASE MAKE A COMMENT SIX
MADAM CHAIR TAYLOR RUSSIAN ON
BEHALF OF THE WESTERN FAIRS
ASSOCIATION AND I PROMISE I
DID NOT IF YOU LOOK AROUND
YOU SEE ALL THE FAIR POSTERS
UP I DID NOT SELECT THIS ROOM
FOR THIS YEAR FOR THIS BUT --
WE LIKE TO ECHO THE COMMENTS
OF MY COLLEAGUE MISTER WEBER
CALIFORNIA'S HOME TO SEVENTY
FOUR FAIRGROUNDS I AM DISTURBED
ASSOCIATION CITRUS FRUIT
FAIRS AND COUNTY FAIRS ALL OR
WHICH IN ALL OF YOUR DISTRICTS
AND THOSE FAIRGROUNDS OFFER
ENTERTAINMENT AND COMMUNITY
EVENTS EDUCATION INCLUDING STEM
EDUCATION AND YOUTH LEADERSHIP
ACTIVITIES MANY OF WHICH
INVOLVE ANIMALS THEY ALSO SERVE
AS IMPORTANT EVACUATION HUBS
-- DURING EMERGENCY EVENTS FOR
BOTH RESIDENTS AND FOR ANIMALS
SO ABSOLUTE CONTRARY TO THE
EXAMPLES PROVIDED ON COMPANION
ANIMALS BY THE SPONSOR WHICH
IS A POOR AND -- AFFAIRS ABIDE
BY THE STRICT ANIMAL WELFARE
AND HANDLING PROCEDURES IN
THE STATE AND WHILE IT MAY NOT
BE THE AUTHOR'S INTENT AS HE
ARTICULATED TODAY PROTESTS AND
PUBLIC DEMONSTRATIONS TO MISTER
ROBERTS POINT ARE AMAZINGLY
DESTRUCTIVE -- AND WE'RE
CONCERNED THAT THE PROVISIONS
OF THE BILL AROUND OFFERING
CIVIL CLAIM WITH ALREADY
AND INJUNCTIVE RELIEF COULD
PROVE VERY CHALLENGING -- IF
AN ACTION IS BROUGHT EVEN A
SPECIES ACTION AGAINST A FAIR
OFFER ANIMAL HANDLING AFTER
THREE TERRIBLE FAIR YEARS WITH
LIMITED TO NO ATTENDANCE --
ENABLING A PARTY TO POTENTIALLY
HALL TO FAIR OR DEDICATE RECENT
AFFAIR HAVING TO DEDICATE
RESOURCES TO DEFEND THEMSELVES
AGAINST THE SPEECHES CLAIM --
WOULD BE INCREDIBLY CALAMITOUS
FINANCIALLY FOR FAIR -- AND
WOULD POTENTIALLY TO GREAT
OPPORTUNITIES FOR THOSE SMALL
RURAL COMMUNITIES THAT DEPEND
ON THE FAIRGROUNDS FOR EVERY
REASON I MENTIONED AND SO AND
WE LOOK FORWARD TO WORKING
WITH THE AUTHOR IN THE SPONSORS
TO MAKE SURE WE APPRECIATE
HIS COMMITMENT TODAY TO NOT
INCLUDE -- LIVESTOCK AND ANIMAL
PRODUCE AFTER PRODUCING ANIMALS
AND FOR THESE REASONS AT THIS
TIME WE RESPECTFULLY QUESTION
ABOUT THANK YOU ANY A TRADE UP
TO THE COMMITTEE ANY COMMENTS
FROM COMMITTEE MEMBERS --
OPPOSITION HE'S I HAVE BEEN
TOO FAR HAD PLEASE COME FORWARD
MADAM CHAIR MEMBERS JASON
BRYANT ON BEHALF OF WESTERN
UNITED DAIRIES WERE IN
OPPOSITION THANK YOU
GOOD AFTERNOON KATIE LITTLE
CALIFORNIA FARM BUREAU IN
OPPOSITION MADAM CHAIR MEMBERS
BRIAN RECENTLY HAVE CALIFORNIA
POULTRY FEDERATION REGRETFULLY
HERE IN OPPOSITION TO THE
BILL IN ITS CURRENT FORM
GOOD AFTERNOON ERIN WROTE ON
BEHALF OF STEPS TOWARDS A FURRY
WEST IF HE'D BE IN OPPOSITION
KAREN MEMBERS TRICIA GERINGER
WITH AGRICULTURAL COUNCIL
OF CALIFORNIA RESPECTFULLY
OPPOSED THANK YOU MADAM
CHAIR AND MEMBERS AND ONLY A
CAN ON BEHALF OF CALIFORNIA
GREAT IN FEET ASSOCIATION
AND THE PACIFIC EGG AND
POULTRY ASSOCIATION OPPOSED
HI I'M CHAIR MEMBERS STOOD
IN LINE WITH PLANET VISORS ON
BEHALF OF PROFESSIONAL BULL
RIDERS AND PROFESSIONAL RODEO
COWBOYS ASSOCIATION RESPECTFUL
OPPOSITION ANY ANY OTHER
COMMENTS IN OPPOSITION SEEING
NONE WILL COME TO THE COMMITTEE
ASSEMBLY WOMAN WILSON THANK
YOU CAN YOU CLARIFY FOR ME --
IN REGARD TO THE CIVIL VERSUS
CRIMINAL ASPECT OF IT BECAUSE
AND IT SPECIFICALLY AS IT
RELATES TO THOSE FROM LIKE
THE CATTLEMEN'S ASSOCIATION
-- ALL THE DIFFERENT GROUPS
THAT RELATED TO AG -- SAYING
THAT NOW THAT WOULD OPEN UP
THE CIVIL IS IT CURRENTLY
RIGHT NOW IN LAW OUTSIDE OF
THE CLARIFICATION IS IT BOTH
CIVIL AND CRIMINAL OR IS IT
ONLY CRIMINAL CURRENT TODAY
YOU CHAU FIRST THANK YOU FOR
THE QUESTION I THINK THAT JUST
EMPHASIZE YOU KNOW WE'RE WE'RE
VERY EAGER TO GET TO A PLACE
WHERE -- THERE'S NO OPPOSITION
ON THIS ONE EVERYBODY AGREES I
THINK PART OF THE DIFFERENCES
THERE'S A LITTLE BIT OF A
MAYBE DIFFERENCE OF OPINION
ABOUT WHAT CURRENT LAW SAYS
SO OUR VIEW IS THAT THIS BILL
JUST COURT CLARIFIES CURRENT
LAW THAT -- THERE CAN BE
CIVIL ENFORCEMENT AND I THINK
WHAT THE SUPPORTS THAT IS THE
JUDICIARY COMMITTEE ANALYSIS
WHICH MADE I THINK VERY VERY
CLEAR IN THIS BILL PASSED OUT
OF JUDICIARY COMMITTEE WITH
UNANIMOUS BIPARTISAN SUPPORT
WITH BOTH REPUBLICANS AND
DEMOCRATS ASKING OUT ON THAT
THAT WAS THE CURRENT STATE
OF THE LAW THAT'S REFLECTED
IN THE COMMITTEE ANALYSIS
FROM THIS COMMITTEE THAT IS
SEVERAL AS WELL -- I THINK
THE REFERRAL OF THIS BILL ALSO
BACKS THAT UP BECAUSE UNDER THE
INTERPRETATION THAT'S OFFERED
BY THE OPPOSITION WE WOULD BE
A PUBLIC SAFETY COMMITTEE --
WE WOULDN'T BE IN JUDICIARY
COMMITTEE AND WE WENT IN THIS
COMMITTEE -- WE'VE ALSO I ASKED
THEM TO PREPARE LEGAL MEMO FOR
ME I LOOKED IT OVER I TRY TO
UNDERSTAND THE PLAIN LANGUAGE
OF THE STATUTE SAYS ANY LAW
SO I THINK WE'RE STRUGGLING
TO UNDERSTAND A LITTLE BIT
WHY THEY BELIEVE THE CURRENT
STATE OF THE LAW IS AS IT IS --
BUT EVERYONE WHO HAS TAKEN AN
INDEPENDENT LOOK AT THIS -- AND
OUR OWN LOOK AT THIS AS WELL
HAS COME DOWN ON THE CONCLUSION
THAT THIS IS SIMPLY CLARIFYING
EXISTING LAW AND HAS THERE
BEEN LEGISLATIVE LEAD COUNSEL
OPINION ON AND AN ART YEAH
LET'S COUNCIL BUT SHOW -- THE
DIFFERENT TODAY IF VICE OF OUR
OF OUR IN HOUSE COUNSEL OKAY
YOU COULD SAY IT AND I WOULD
JUST SAY WE HAD AN INITIAL
CONVERSATION THAT GIVES ME
GREAT GREAT CONFIDENCE HOUSE
ACT UNDERSTOOD UNDERSTOOD I
EVEN LIKE DID MY I GOT THAT
SAME ADVICE I WAS GONNA GET
A LOT OF TRAVELING LIKE THAT
OKAY -- AND AND TO THE TO THE
OPPOSITION IT'S YOUR BELIEVE
THAT THIS CLARIFICATION AS
THEY'RE STATING AND I KNOW YOU
MIGHT DISAGREE ON WHETHER IT'S
CLEAR FINE OR NOT BUT THIS
CLARIFICATION WOULD INCREASED
LIABILITY FOR YOU AS IT RELATES
TO INDIVIDUALS WHO WOULD THEN
WEAPONIZED THE LAW -- WHO ARE
OPPOSED TO JUST YOUR BUSINESS
PRACTICE AND GENERAL EVEN
THOUGH YOUR BUSINESS PRACTICE
COMPLIES WITH THE LAW YES WOULD
YOU MIND IF I ANSWER FIRST
THAT ISSUE OF WHETHER THERE
IS CURRENTLY A CIVIL CAUSE OF
ACTION BUT WE DON'T BELIEVE
THERE IS CURRENTLY A CIVIL
CAUSE OF ACTION AGAIN SECTION
TEN FOR -- FOR PERMITS EITHER
AN SPCA OR HUMANE OFFICER TO
BRING THESE CASES -- WE NOTE
THAT IN THE PORTION OF THE
CORPORATION'S CARE DEALING
SPECIFICALLY WITH HOW YOU
QUALIFY A HUMANE OFFICER IT
CRAWFORD CROSS REFERENCES
SPECIFICALLY BRINGING SUITS
IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE CODE
OF CRIMINAL PROCEDURE THERE
IS NO EQUIVALENT CITATION AND
THE LAWS CURRENTLY TO CIVIL
PROCEDURE I DON'T WANT TO GET
TOO MUCH INTO THE PRESIDENT
THE LEGAL PRECEDENT IN THE
CODES BUT WHAT I WILL SIMPLY
SAY IS IF THIS WERE IN FACT A
CLARIFICATION OF EXISTING LAW
THERE WOULD BE NO NEED FOR THE
BILL IF THIS WAS SETTLED LAW
ANYTIME THERE IS A DIMMER OR
A MOTION TO DISMISS THE CASE
AGAINST A GROUP LIKE A L.
D.
F.
R.
THEY COULD SIMPLY SITE IN
THE RESPONSE TO THAT BINDING
PRECEDENT THAT DEMONSTRATES
THEY HAVE STANDING TO SUE
IN CIVIL COURTS THAT BINDING
PRECEDENT DOESN'T EXIST AND
THAT IS WHY WE'RE HERE TODAY I
DON'T WANNA GET TOO BOGGED DOWN
INTO WHAT IS OR IS NOT CURRENT
LAW BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY YOU ALL
MAY CHANGE WHAT CURRENT LAW
IS -- BUT I JUST WANT TO PUT
A BUTTON ON THE FACT WE DON'T
BELIEVE YOU CAN CURRENTLY BRING
A CIVIL SUIT UNDER SECTION
TEN FOR A FOR TO YOUR QUESTION
-- TO US ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT
THIS WOULD INCREASE LITIGATION
IN THE CIVIL COURTS AGAINST
ANIMAL AGRICULTURE INTERESTS
WE ABSOLUTELY BELIEVE THAT
TO BE THE CASE -- THERE ARE
GROUPS OUT THERE WHO WILL USE
EVERY WEAPON IN THE TOOL BOX
I TO TRY TO ELIMINATE ANIMAL
AGRICULTURE FROM THE LANDSCAPE
IN CALIFORNIA AS I MENTIONED
THERE'S FOLKS THAT DO OPEN
RESCUE HI IF THERE IS AN AVENUE
FOR THOSE FOLKS TO HAVE CIVIL
STANDING IN THE COURTS THEY
WILL BEGIN BRINGING LAWSUITS
AGAINST MY MEMBERS WHO ARE FELT
SMALL FAMILY OPERATORS ARE NOW
THOSE LAWSUITS THERE WILL BE
DAMAGE IS THE MOMENT THE SUIT
IS FILED BECAUSE A LOT OF THESE
GROUPS ARE VERY BIG PR GROUPS
THEY'RE VERY BIG FUNDRAISING
GROUPS ARE SO THEY WILL BE
PUBLICIZING THESE LAWSUITS
EVEN IF THEY ARE MERITLESS WE
DO BELIEVE FRIVOLOUS LAWSUITS
WILL BE BROUGHT IF THIS BILL
IS PASSED BUT I THINK ONE THING
THAT WE SHOULDN'T LOSE HERE
THERE MAY BE A LAWSUITS THAT
ARE NOT STRICTLY FRIVOLOUS
BUT THAT A PROSECUTOR WOULD
NOT BRING UNDER THE CURRENT
PENAL CODES ARE SO FOR EXAMPLE
WHAT CONSTITUTES CRUELTY TO AN
ANIMAL I THAT IS NOT EXPLICITLY
DEFINED IN THE PENAL CODES THAT
IS A QUESTION FOR THE TRIER
OF FACT NOW IF WE'RE TALKING
ABOUT ROPING A CALF IF WE'RE
TALKING ABOUT PUTTING A COW
IN A SQUEEZE CHUTE FOR THE
PURPOSES OF SAFEGUARDING THOSE
ANIMALS WHILE WE'RE TREATING
THE MEDICALLY I I DON'T THINK
MOST PROSECUTORS WOULD FIND
THAT TO BE ANIMAL ABUSE BUT
TO A GROUP THAT IS ANTI ANIMAL
AGRICULTURE THEY CAN MAKE A
CLAIM IN CIVIL COURT THAT THAT
IS ANIMAL ABUSE THAT IS GOING
TO HARM OUR MEMBERS THE MOMENT
THAT LAWSUIT IS FILED AND IT'S
GOING TO FORCE THEM TO DEFEND
THAT SUE IN THE CIVIL COURTS
I'M GOOD THANK YOU ALL RIGHT
ANY OTHER COMMITTEE COMMENTS
YES THANK YOU MADAM CHAIR --
I YOU KNOW THINK WANT TO THANK
THE AUTHOR FOR BRINGING THIS
FORWARD BUT ALSO THE OPPOSITION
FOR EXPRESSING THE CONCERNS I
REPRESENT A DISTRICT THAT IS
HEAVILY AGRICULTURE AND OUR
FAMILIES DEPEND OBVIOUSLY ON
THESE JOBS AND SO I'D LIKE
TO FIGURE OUT BECAUSE I THINK
THAT AS YOU MENTIONED IN THE
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE YOU HAD
BIPARTISAN SUPPORT BUT I THINK
THAT IT IS IMPORTANT THAT WE
ARE CLOSE TO CRYSTAL CLEAR
ABOUT WHAT THE REAL INTENT IS
BEHIND THE LEGISLATION AND SO
I THINK THAT YOU KNOW IF THE
SPONSOR IS SAYING THAT THAT IS
TRUE -- THAT YOU KNOW THAT WE
FIGURE OUT HOW THE LANGUAGE CAN
BE REFLECTED -- IN THAT WAY I I
WANT TO BE ABLE TO SUPPORT THIS
UP BUT I ALSO DO WANT TO MAKE
SURE THAT WE DON'T ENTER INTO
THIS SPHERE WHERE WE HAVE --
LITIGATION -- WHAT WOULD BE AN
ADDITIONAL LITIGATION THAT WAS
NOT INTENDED -- GIVEN THE YOU
KNOW THE SPONSORS -- YOU KNOW
CLAIM THAT THIS IS JUST SIMPLY
TO CLARIFY -- AND I DON'T KNOW
I I GUESS DIDN'T UNDERSTAND
-- THE COMMENT ON THE ALSO
THE LEDGE COUNCIL PROVIDING
CLARIFICATION WHAT IT WHAT IT
YOU KNOW IF YOU CAN LIKE I'M
NEW HERE SO I'D LIKE TO KIND OF
GET YOUR IT'S JUST A QUESTION A
QUESTION A PRIVILEGE INTO CHILD
OKAY THAT'S THAT THAT'S THAT
THAT'S THE ISSUE THERE -- IF HE
IF I MIGHT ARM AYE AYE IS SUPER
APPRECIATE THE COMMENTS AND I
THINK AGAIN WERE WE'RE GOING
TO YOU KNOW CONTINUE TO ENGAGE
IN CONVERSATIONS OPPOSITION
I THINK WE ALL WANT TO GET TO
THE SAME PLACE THEY SHOULD BE
A BILL THAT IS AN EASY YOU KNOW
BILL THAT SHOULD BE ON CONSENT
WITH EVERYBODY AGREEING THAT
-- YOU KNOW CRUELTY AGAINST
ANIMALS AND PUPPY MILLS ARE
THINGS THAT ARE REPREHENSIBLE
AND AND NOT SOMETHING THAT
WE SHOULD -- TOLERATE HERE IN
THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA I DO
WANT TO MAKE A COUPLE POINTS
ON THE FRIVOLOUS LAWSUIT PIECE
IF I IF I MIGHT FIRST OF ALL
I THINK THAT THERE IS A MUCH
LOWER LIKELIHOOD OF THAT
HAPPENING BECAUSE AGAIN THE
ONLY RELIEF THAT AVAILABLE HERE
IS INJUNCTIVE RELIEF THERE'S
NO MONEY DAMAGES SO FOR THE
INCENTIVE FOR PEOPLE TO BRING
A LAWSUIT WE THINK WE OFTEN
HAVE TO BATES ABOUT -- YOU
KNOW PRIVATE RIGHTS OF ACTION
FROM US LOS ANGELES AND IN THE
CASES WHERE THERE ISN'T MONEY
DAMAGES OR THERE'S BIG RETURN
BIG -- YOU KNOW POTENTIAL --
PAYDAYS FOR ATTORNEYS AND FOR
PLAINTIFFS THAT NONE OF THAT
IS AVAILABLE THIS CASE THE ONLY
KIND OF RELIEF THAT COULD BE
ACHIEVED IS INJUNCTIVE RELIEF
THE SECOND THING HERE WHICH
I WOULD HOPE WOULD GIVE THE
OPPOSITION SOME CONFIDENCE THIS
IS THERE'S ACTUALLY A LOWER BAR
IN MANY OTHER STATES RIGHT SO
THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT HOW EASY
IT IS FOR PEOPLE TO ORGANIZE
AN SPCA THERE STATES OUT THERE
LIKE WORKING IN NORTH CAROLINA
WHERE ANY CITIZEN CAN BRING
A LAWSUIT SO IF WHAT THEY'RE
SAYING IS TRUE THAT IT CAN OPEN
UP THE FLOODGATES TO FOR THIS
LITTLE LITIGATION YOU WOULD
HAVE SEEN IN NORTH CAROLINA AND
OREGON TONS AND TONS AND TONS
OF SINCE NOW YOU HAVE A STATE
LIKE NORTH CAROLINA YOU KNOW
WITH WITH A STRONG TRADITION
OF FARMING AND RANCHING AND
RODEO IS AND EVERYTHING ELSE
THAT HAS NOT BEEN SUBJECT
TO THAT SO I UNDERSTAND I
GUESS MAYBE IN THEORY THIS
FEAR OF ACTIVISTS OUT THERE
BUT THEY'RE STATES OUT THERE
THAT HAVE A LOWER BAR THAN
WHAT THIS BILL WHAT PROPOSED
THAT HAVE NOT BEEN SUBJECT
TO THAT AND I THINK THAT
SHOULD PUT EVERYBODY AT EASE
SO IS THERE I GUESS IS THERE
A COMMITMENT TO WORK ON
CLARIFYING LANGUAGE TO MAKE
SURE THAT THE OPPOSITION
COMES TO EITHER A POSITION
OF MENTALITY OR IN SUPPORT
I THINK I WANT TO BE ABLE TO
BE SUPPORTIVE -- BECAUSE I DO
SUPPORT THE INTENT I JUST WANT
TO MAKE SURE THAT I DON'T END
UP SUPPORTING SOMETHING WITH
UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES THAT
WILL IMPACT MY DISTRICT UP AND
SO YOU KNOW FOR ME TODAY I I
WILL STAY OFF BUT I REALLY WANT
TO SEE THIS BEFORE IT COMES
YOU KNOW BACK TO THE FLOOR
WHERE I HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO
SUPPORT THE TRUE INTENT OF THE
BILL A HUNDRED PERCENT AND I
APPRECIATE THAT AND WE HAVE I
I THINK WE'VE ALREADY OFFERED
SOME LANGUAGE TO TRY TO ADDRESS
THEIR CONCERNS WE WILL CONTINUE
TO HAVE THOSE CONVERSATIONS
THEM WHAT WE DON'T WANT TO
DO IS HAVE THIS BILL ACTUALLY
CHANGE EXISTING LAW IN A WAY
WHICH ROLLS BACK PROTECTIONS
FOR ANIMALS AND THAT'S AND
YOU KNOW AND AND WOULD MAKE IT
EASIER FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE YOU
KNOW RUNNING PUPPY MILLS TO
EVADE JUSTICE TO MAKE IT EASIER
FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE ABUSING
DOMESTIC PETS TO EVADE JUSTICE
SO I THINK WERE YOU KNOW WE HAD
CONVERSATIONS I'VE PERSONALLY
READ LEGAL MEMOS THAT THEY'VE
HIT ME WE'RE GONNA CONTINUE
TO HAVE THOSE CONVERSATIONS
I ACTUALLY THINK WE CAN GET
TO A PLACE -- BUT BUT THAT'S
GONNA REQUIRE SOME ADDITIONAL
CONVERSATION SO TO THE
OPPOSITION ARE YOU GUYS WILLING
TO WORK TO MAKE SURE THAT WE
GET TO A PLACE WHERE AGAIN WE
DON'T ROLL BACK PROTECTIONS
TO GO AFTER YOU KNOW THE PUPPY
MILLS BUT WE ENSURE THAT WE
ALSO DON'T HAVE SOME OF THE
INTENDED CONSEQUENCES THE
CONSEQUENCES THAT YOU GUYS
SPEAK ABOUT YES CERTAINLY ARE
NOW PART OF THAT COMES DOWN TO
OUR FUNDAMENTAL DISAGREEMENT
ABOUT WHAT CURRENT LAW IS AND
WHETHER THAT WOULD BE ROLLED
BACK BY AMENDMENTS THAT WE
HAVE OFFERED FOR INSTANCE
BUT I WILL SAY THAT WE HAVE
OFFERED UP AMENDMENTS TO THE
AUTHOR'S OFFICE WE'VE BEEN IN
DISCUSSIONS ABOUT THIS BILL WE
DID AUTHOR FOR INSTANCE A LEGAL
MEMO I AM FULLY WILLING TO
CONTINUE DISCUSSIONS WITH THE
AUTHOR'S OFFICE ON AMENDMENTS I
KNOW OF THOSE IN OUR COALITION
ARE LIKEWISE WILLING TO DO SO
SO WE'RE HAPPY TO TRY TO COME
TO AN AGREEMENT TO THE EXTENT
WE CAN BUT SO FAR WE SIMPLY
HAVEN'T GOTTEN THERE THANK YOU
ANY OTHER COMMITTEE COMMENTS
A COUPLE THINGS OUT WE'RE GOING
TO KEEP THIS HID PORTION OF
THE HEARING OPEN UNTIL ASSEMBLY
MEMBER GRAYSON RETURNS BECAUSE
HE WANTS TO PARTICIPATE IN
THE DISCUSSION SO WE MIGHT AS
WELL JUST KEEP TALKING TO HER
A FEW MINUTES BEFORE WE TAKE
A VOTE I DON'T KNOW WHEN HE'LL
BE RETURNING IS TAKING A VOTED
ANOTHER COMMITTEE HOPEFULLY
IT WILL BE SHORTLY BUT I DO
HAVE A QUESTION I WAS GOING TO
ASK ANOTHER QUESTION BUT -- SO
LET'S GO FOR IT -- MY QUESTION
IS WE I THINK THERE'S UNANIMITY
THAT WE ALL ARE OPPOSED TO
PUPPY MILLS AND FADS SHORT --
HERE'S MR GRAYSON OUT WE'RE
STILL GOING MISTER RACES IS TO
GET AS YOUR QUESTION -- ISN'T
THERE A WAY THAT YOU CAN PUT
GUARDRAILS AROUND THIS LANGUAGE
TO EXCLUDE IT AGRICULTURE
RECOGNIZE EXISTING LAW RODEOS
AND AND ALSO TO PREVENT SOME
ORGANIZATION OF TWENTY PEOPLE
TO SUDDENLY BECOME AN SPCA
ORGANIZATION UNDER CURRENT LAW
CAN YOU PUT SOME GUARDRAILS
AROUND THIS IT REALLY BECAUSE
ALL COMFORTABLE THAT WE'RE
ONLY GOING OUT BECAUSE I SIT
ON THE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE
AND THE DISCUSSION THERE WAS
ALL ABOUT PUPPY MILLS AND
SO THE AGRICULTURAL ISSUE
HAS JUST RECENTLY SURFACED
AGAINST WITH FURTHER ANALYSIS
OF THE POTENTIAL ISSUES
RELATED TO THE BILL SO WHAT
CAN YOU DO TO ASSURE ALL OF
US ARE YOU I THINK WE ARE IT
WOULD EXPRESS BEFORE WE ARE A
HUNDRED PERCENT COMMITTED TO
CONTINUING THOSE CONVERSATIONS
TO TRY TO UNDERSTAND HOW WE
MIGHT PUT FOLKS AT EASE AND
AND AND AGAIN I I THINK WE'VE
MADE IT VERY CLEAR ABOUT WHAT
WE'RE TRYING TO DO WE HOPE
THAT WE WILL EVENTUALLY GET TO
A PLACE WHERE EVERYBODY FEELS
COMFORTABLE AT THIS WHERE WE'RE
STRUGGLING IS THAT WE HAVE YET
TO FIND A SOURCE OTHER THAN
THE OPPOSITION THAT SUPPORTS
THEIR READ OF EXISTING LAW AND
THAT'S AND THAT'S WHERE THE
CHALLENGES EVERY INDEPENDENT
ENTITY THAT HAS LOOKED AT THIS
BILL HAS INTERPRETED EXISTING
ALONG THE EXACT SAME WAY THAT
WE HAVE EVERY COMMITTEE THE
RULES COMMITTEE THE PLAIN
LANGUAGE OF THE STATUTE CASE
LAW ALL OF THAT SUPPORTS OUR
INTERPRETATION AND SO WE WANT
TO CONTINUE TO WORK WITH THEM
AND FIND A WAY TO -- TED TED
TED TO COME TO SOME AGREEMENT
BY WE I I THINK THERE NEEDS TO
BE A LITTLE MORE CONVERSATION
-- YOU KNOW TO IT TO MAKE
THAT HAPPEN WHAT I AGREE
WITH YOUR INTENT HOWEVER YOU
CAN'T PREDICT WHAT ANY OTHER
ORGANIZATIONS GOING TO DO
AND FIND A WAY TO THREAD THIS
VERY NARROWLY AND AND THAT'S
WHY AND THAT'S WHY CITED THE
EXAMPLE OF ALL THESE OTHER
STATES RIGHT THERE ARE MANY
OTHER STATES THAT CURRENTLY
HAVE IN LAW THE SAME STANDARD
HERE THAT WE'RE ADVOCATING
AND THEN THERE ARE ACTUALLY
STATES AS I MENTIONED LIKE
NORTH CAROLINA AND LIKE ORGAN
THAT ACTUALLY ANY INDIVIDUAL
NOT EVEN SPCA ANY INDIVIDUAL SO
AND WE HAVE NOT SEEN YOU KNOW
SORT OF WHAT THE OPPOSITION
FEARS WHICH IS THIS A DELUSION
OF OF YOU KNOW ACTIVISTS
LAWSUITS THAT ARE GONNA PUT
PEOPLE OUT OF BUSINESS IF
THIS IF THE LEGISLATURE IN THE
STATE OF NORTH CAROLINA FELT
COMFORTABLE WITH A STANDARD
THAT'S EVEN MORE EVEN A LOWER
BAR THAN WHAT WE HAVE I THINK
THAT SHOULD GIVE US CONFIDENCE
THAT WE'RE ON THE RIGHT TRACK
HERE I WILL TURN IT BACK TO
THE CHAIR ASSEMBLY MEMBER THANK
YOU SIMILAR MEMBER DIXON AND
-- MY APOLOGIES A SIMILAR GAME
RIFE MR PRESENTATION AND --
THE TESTIMONY THE OPPOSITION
HOWEVER IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING
THAT YOU ARE VERY OPEN TO
CONTINUING TO WORK WITH
OPPOSITION TRYING TO FIND
CLARITY EVEN IF IT MEANS --
TRYING TO FIND THIRD PARTY OR
LEAD COUNSEL WHATEVER TO COME
TO AN AGREEMENT OF WHAT THE
TERM REALLY MEANS OR WHAT THE
BILL IS REALLY DOING BECAUSE
I I KNOW THAT -- PRODUCTION
AG WAS NOT YOUR TARGET AND WE
JUST NEED THAT COMMITMENT TO
-- TO KNOW THAT IN YOUR BILL
YOU'LL HELP MAKE THAT SO THAT
IT'S CLEAR THAT IT'S NOT YOUR
TARGET CORRECT AND -- YES
I I MENTIONED IN MY OPENING
HOW MUCH MY KIDS LIKE CHICKEN
FINGERS AND HOT DOGS AND
THEY'RE ACTUALLY NOT OUR TARGET
SO WE WILL WORK WITH THEM
I WOULD HOPE AT SOME POINT
YOU ELEVATE YOUR CHILDREN
UP TO A HEALTHY CHEESE
AND I GOT I GOT A LOT OF LIMITS
RUN AUTO A LOT OF CHILDREN A
LOT OF CHILDREN OKAY -- THIS
IS DIAGNOSING REALLY OKAY
YES WE DON'T WANT TO MISS --
ASSEMBLY MEMBER PETRIE-NORRIS
PLEASE TAKE YOUR LIBERTY
BELL AND I I TO APOLOGIES
WAS OUT FOR THE BULK OF THE
DISCUSSION BUT I THINK IT
DOES SEEM LIKE THERE CONTINUES
TO BE I GUESS A DISAGREEMENT
AROUND WHETHER OR NOT THIS
IS CLARIFYING AUTHORITY OR IN
FACT ESTABLISHING A NEW ARENA
AS AUTHORITY -- SO WHAT IS THE
THE PLAN TO RESOLVE THAT SO I
THINK THE GOOD NEWS IS IF --
INTENTIONS ARE ALIGNED AND IT'S
EASIER TO CRAFTED LEGISLATIVE
SOLUTION THAT ADDRESSES YOU
KNOW POTENTIAL CONCERNS AND
IT SOUNDS LIKE -- INTENTIONS
ARE IN FACT ALIGNED SO WHAT IS
THE THE GAME PLAN TO RESOLVE
THAT DISAGREEMENT OF PERCEPTION
AND MAKE POLICY ADJUSTMENTS
TO ENSURE THAT WHAT'S IN THE
LETTER OF THE LAW REFLECTS
THE INTENTION YEAH I THINK
IT'S A GREAT QUESTION I THINK
PROBABLY WITHOUT JUMPING AHEAD
OF OURSELVES A LITTLE BIT OF
CREATIVE LAWYERING AND THINKING
ABOUT LEGISLATIVE LANGUAGE
THAT WE MIGHT INCLUDE THAT
COULD PUT SOME FOLKS AT EASE
-- AND AND AND I HAVE A FEW
THOUGHTS ABOUT HOW THAT MIGHT
THAT BE DONE AND AND EAGER TO
HAVE THAT CONVERSATION -- YOU
KNOW WITH THE OPPOSITION AS I
MENTIONED -- WE WE WE REALLY
WANT TO MAKE IT CLEAR THAT
THIS IS JUST CLARIFYING OF
EXISTING LAW AGAIN PART OF THE
THE THE THE ROOT OF THE ISSUE
HERE IS BECAUSE IT'S A HUNDRED
AND SOMETHING YEAR OLD STATUTE
AND ITS AWKWARDLY DRAFTED
YOU YOU THAT YOU SAW THIS
EXPLAINED VERY VERY CLEARLY
JUDICIARY COMMITTEE ANALYSIS
IT SAID YOU KNOW THIS IS A
NON CONTROVERSIAL BILL THAT IS
CLARIFYING A HUNDRED PLUS YEAR
OLD STATUES YOU KNOW PEOPLE
WHO WERE RUNNING PUPPY MILLS
ARE ABLE TO TAKE ADVANTAGE
OF THAT AWKWARD LEGISLATIVE
LANGUAGE TO CREATE ALL THESE
PROCEDURAL LOOPHOLES THAT FOLKS
ARE TRYING TO SHUT DOWN PUPPY
MILLS HAD TO JUMP THROUGH AND
THAT WHICH IS CREATING A LOT
OF EXTRA TIME AND EXPENSE AND
YOU KNOW PUTTING ANIMALS AT
RISK DURING THE COURSE OF THAT
LITIGATION AND SAY DO YOU HEAR
IS JUST TO CLARIFY THAT SO
AS LONG AS WE CAN GET TO THAT
POINT AS LONG AS WE DON'T FEEL
LIKE WE'RE ACTUALLY ROLLING
BACK IN ALL PROTECTION LAWS
I DON'T WANT TO ROLL BACK THE
SUBSTANTIVE PROTECTIONS THAT
ARE OUT THERE THAT ALLOWS THE
FOLKS WHO DO THIS GOOD WORK
TO GO AFTER PUPPY MILLS IN
THOSE WHO ABUSE ANIMALS IN OUR
YOU KNOW COMMITTING CRUELTY
AGAINST HOUSEHOLD PETS AS LONG
AS WE CAN GET TO THAT PLACE
I THINK WE CAN WE CAN FIND A
WAY TO BEFORE AND I THINK IT
JUST REQUIRES A LITTLE BIT MORE
CONVERSATION -- YOU KNOW AGAIN
NOT GLOSSING OVER THE FACT THAT
RIGHT NOW THERE'S A LITTLE BIT
OF A DIFFERENT READ ABOUT WHAT
EXISTING LAWS BUT ACTUALLY HAVE
SOME IDEAS ABOUT HOW WE MIGHT
GO TOGETHER THANK YOU AND A
VERY VERY COMMITTED TO HAVING
THOSE CONVERSATIONS AND TRY TO
GET THERE BECAUSE I THINK AGAIN
I THINK THERE SHOULD BE A BILL
THAT EVERYBODY SHOULD FEEL GOOD
ABOUT AND EVERYBODY SHOULD FEEL
COMFORTABLE SUPPORTING THANK
YOU SUFFICED YES ALL RIGHT WITH
THAT -- ASSEMBLY MEMBER WOULD
YOU LIKE TO CLOSE I APPRECIATE
THE CONVERSATION IN THE
QUESTIONS RESPECTFULLY REQUEST
AN AYE VOTE THANK YOU VERY MUCH
CHIEF QUICK MOTIONS -- WE DO
NEED A BUT I THOUGHT WE HAD
WE NEED A MOTION AND A SECOND
SEVEN SO MOTION BY -- SOME
MEMBER OF OUR CAME IN SECOND
BY SOME REMEMBER FONG NOW WE DO
HAVE A MOTION A SECOND DEFECT
PLEASE CALL AB FIVE FIVE FOR
THE MOTION IS DUE PASS GRAYSON
I GRAYSON HIGH CHEN OUR QUE
HAN BAROKA HAVE HIGHS CERVANTES
CERVANTES AYE DIXON -- NOT
VOTING SIX AND NOT VOTING
MIKE FONG LIKE FONG HI GABRIEL
HI GABRIEL I PETRIE-NORRIS
GINORMOUS ISAURIA NOT VOTING
SORRY WALDRON WALDRON AYE
WICKS WILSON HI WILSON HI
THAT IS ABLE TO GET DOUBLE KEEP
ROLE OPEN FOR US ABSENT MEMBERS
THANK YOU THANK YOU CAN'T
-- YEAH THAT'S
THIS BILL
ALL RIGHT
THE NEXT A BILL IN THE FILE
IS AB THIRTY NINE FILE ITEM
NUMBER FIVE THE RECOMMENDATION
IS TO PASS AS AMENDED TO THE
PROCREATION COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN
GRAYSON WHEN YOU ARE READY
PLEASE BEGIN WITH YOUR OPENING
STATEMENT THANK YOU MADAM CHAIR
AND MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE
I AM PLEASED TO PRESENT TO
YOU ASSEMBLY BILL THIRTY NINE
WHICH WILL HELP CREATE A SAFER
MORE SUSTAINABLE CRYPTOCURRENCY
MARKET FOR CALIFORNIA CONSUMERS
AND BUSINESS FIRST I ACCEPT
THE COMMITTEES AMENDMENTS THAT
ARE DETAILED IN THE ANALYSIS
PRODUCED BY COMMITTEE STAFF
THIS COMMITTEE HAS HEARD
PLENTY OF TESTIMONY IN RECENT
MONTHS ABOUT THE HARM CAUSED
BY AN UNDER REGULATED CRYPTO
MARKET WE HELD AN OVERSIGHT
HEARING IN FEBRUARY TO HEAR
WHAT CALIFORNIA IS DOING TO
REGULATE CRYPTO AND ONE BIG
TAKE AWAY FROM THAT HEARING
IS THAT WE NEED TO DO MORE
WE NEED TO GIVE D.
F.
PI THE TOOLS IT NEEDS TO
PROMOTE RESPONSIBLE INNOVATION
IN THE CRYPTO INDUSTRY A.
B.
THIRTY NINE WILL GIVE THE FBI
THOSE TOOLS THIS BILL WILL
HELP INDIVIDUAL INVESTORS
IN THE COMPANY'S HOPING TO
GROW THEIR OPERATIONS HERE
IN CALIFORNIA AND AB THIRTY
NINE ALSO IS SIMILAR TO LAST
YEAR'S AB TWENTY TWO SIXTY
NINE HOWEVER THERE ARE KEY
DIFFERENCES THAT MAKE THE
PROGRAM EASIER FOR BOTH THE
FBI AND CRYPTO COMPANIES
THESE CHANGES STRENGTHEN THE
PROPOSAL WITHOUT COMPROMISING
ITS CONSUMER PROTECTIONS FOR
EXAMPLE A COMPANY WITH A VALID
NEW YORK LICENSE CAN RECEIVE
A CONDITIONAL LICENSE HERE
IN CALIFORNIA WHICH WILL HELP
PREVENT DELAYS FOR COMPANIES
SEEKING LICENSURE I LOOK
FORWARD TO CONTINUE WORKING
WITH STAKEHOLDERS AS THE BILL
MOVES THROUGH THE LEGISLATIVE
PROCESS AS IT HOPEFULLY GETS
OUT OF THIS COMMITTEE SO WITH
THAT I WOULD LIKE TO INTRODUCE
ROBERT RALPH WHO WAS TESTIFYING
ON BEHALF OF CONSUMER
FEDERATION OF CALIFORNIA AND
DESIREE -- WHEN OR WHO IS ALSO
A SPEAKING ON BEHALF OF EAST
BAY COMMUNITY LAW CENTER A
GOOD PLACE FOR C.
THANK YOU MADAM CHAIR MEMBERS
ROBERT CORRAL EXECUTRIX OF
CONSUMER FEDERATION CALIFORNIA
WHERE THE SPONSORS OF THIS
MEASURE MANY OF YOU ON THIS
COMMITTEE HAVE SEEN THIS
MEASURE BEFORE I AND OTHERS
THREE NEW MEMBERS ON THE
COMMITTEE SO I'LL BE VERY BRIEF
SINCE THE LAST BILL AND -- I
CAN READ A ROOM -- -- SO WHAT
IS CHANGED SO LAST YEAR -- THE
ASSEMBLY MEMBER AUTHORED AB
TWENTY TWO SIXTY NINE IT WAS
UNFORTUNATELY A VETO BY THE
GOVERNOR THAT BILL PASSED THE
ASSEMBLY SEVENTY ONE ZERO SO
WHAT BROAD BI PARTISAN SUPPORT
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A LICENSING
REGIME HERE -- CONSUMERS ARE
BEING RIPPED OFF -- THERE WAS
A OVERSIGHT HEARING THAT MANY
OF YOU ATTENDED WHERE WE TALK
SPECIFICALLY ABOUT CRYPTO AND
-- I SHARED SOME STORIES THAT
ACTUALLY CAME FROM THE EAST
BAY COMMUNITY LAW CENTER --
HERE A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHAT
IS HAPPENING TO CONSUMERS SO
YOU NEED RULES OF THE ROAD
YOU NEED BASIC PROTECTIONS
WHAT'S HAPPENED SINCE THE
BILL GOT VETOED LAST YEAR
-- FTX COLLAPSED THAT WAS A
MAJOR PLAYER IN THE INDUSTRY
-- AND -- MISTER BANK BEEN
FREED IS AWAITING TRIAL --
AND UNDER HOUSE ARREST AND
-- IT SOUNDS LIKE MANY OF
THE OTHER TOP EXECUTIVES OF
THE COMMITTEE HAVE FLIPPED
AND ARE COOPERATING WITH
THE INVESTIGATION -- SILVER
GATE BANK HAS SHUT DOWN THAT
WAS VERY CRYPTO HEAVY BANK
A SEPARATE AND DISTINCT FROM
SILICON VALLEY BANK WHICH I
KNOW WAS THE SUBJECT OF ANOTHER
HEARING OF THIS COMMITTEE THE
AUTHOR TALK ABOUT THE CHANGES
TO THE BUILDER OVERWHELMINGLY
TALKING ABOUT WORK ABILITY
THE ABILITY FOR THE FBI TO
GET THIS GOING IN AN EXPEDITED
FASHION IN A WAY THAT PROPERLY
PRESS PROTECTS CONSUMERS --
LICENSING IS VERY IMPORTANT
HERE WE LICENSE ALL KINDS OF
ACTIVITIES AS I'VE MENTIONED
TO THIS COMMITTEE BEFORE THIS
ABSOLUTELY IS AN AREA WHERE
LICENSING AND BASIC RULES
THE ROAD SHOULD HAPPEN -- THE
REALITY IS THAT UNFORTUNATELY
DUE TO THE GOVERNOR'S VETO
OTHER STATES ARE NOT PASSING
US BY ILLINOIS FOR EXAMPLE
IS QUITE CLOSE -- PERHAPS THE
NEXT MONTH OR TWO TO AN ACTING
SOMETHING THAT'S ESSENTIALLY
BASED ON LAST YEAR'S BILL
AND SO CALIFORNIA'S GONNA
FALL BEHIND -- IF WE DON'T
-- PICK UP THE PACE HERE
AND NOW IS THE TIME THIS IS
THE YEAR URGENT I THOUGHT
GOOD AFTERNOON CHAIR AND
MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE I
AM DOES RIGHT WHEN ARTS STILL
DIRECTOR OF THE CONSUMER
JUSTICE PRACTICE AT EAST BAY
COMMUNITY LAW CENTER OVER THE
LAST TWO YEARS WE HAVE SEEN
MORE PEOPLE CALLING FOR HEALTH
RELATED TO BAD INVESTMENTS
IN TODAY'S VOLATILE MARKET
AND RISING INFLATION IT TAKES
VERY LITTLE TO GAIN INVESTORS
I'D LIKE TO BRIEFLY SHARE THE
EXPERIENCE OF PEOPLE WHO FELL
VICTIM TO CRYPTO INVESTMENTS
THE FIRST WAS A SEVENTY EIGHT
YEAR OLD WIDOWED FILIPINA
RETIRED NURSE FOR A MONTH UNDER
THE BELIEF THAT THE CLIENT WAS
SPEAKING WITH A CELEBRITY OF
WHOM SHE IS A FAN THE RETIRED
NURSE WAS CONVINCED TO INVEST
IN A CURRENCY USING HOT TRADES
SHE WAS TOLD THAT IF SHE
INVESTED A HUNDRED THOUSAND
DOLLARS SHE WOULD GET A
MILLION DOLLARS IN TEN DAYS SHE
INVESTED FIFTY EIGHT THOUSAND
THE EXTENT OF OUR PERSONAL
RETIREMENT SAVINGS AND BORROWED
FORTY TWO THOUSAND FROM FRIENDS
AFTER CHECKING THE DAILY WHEN
THE ACCOUNT HAD ONE MILLION SHE
TRIED TO COLLECT HER BALANCE
SHE WAS ASKED TO PAY SEVERAL
DIFFERENT FEES AS A STALL
TACTIC AMOUNTING TO A TOTAL OF
TWELVE THOUSAND FIVE HUNDRED
DOLLARS STILL DESPITE PAYING
THESE FEES SHE WAS NEVER ABLE
TO GET HER MONEY OUT THE SECOND
IS A PERMANENTLY DISABLED
FIFTY TWO YEAR OLD WHITE
EUROPEAN MALE WHO INVESTED IN
CRYPTO USING TRADE X.
DOT COM TRADE NINETEEN SIXTY
DOT COM AND COINBASE THE
INVESTMENT BEGAN AFTER FALLING
AN UNLICENSED TRADER ON
INSTAGRAM THIS PERSON CONTACTED
THE MAN AFTER HE FOLLOWED
HER AND SHE OFFERED TO MANAGE
HIS INVESTMENT CLAIMING THAT
SHE COULD MAKE HIM A HUNDRED
THOUSAND DOLLARS ON A THIRTY
THOUSAND DOLLAR INVESTMENT THE
PERSON KNEW THAT SOMETHING WENT
WRONG WHEN HE RECEIVED A TEXT
MESSAGE FROM COIN BASE ABOUT
AN ERROR HE REACHED OUT TO THE
CONSUMER PROTECTION AGENCIES
LIKE THE BRITISH ISLAND
COMMISSION AGENCY HE FILED A
REPORT WITH THE FBI MAKING A
COMPLAINT WITH THE FCC WHERE HE
LEARNT THAT TRADE X.
DOT COM AND TRADE IN NINETEEN
SIXTY DOT COM WE'RE NOT
REGISTERED BUSINESSES IN THE
UNITED STATES NOR HOLDERS
OF AN INVESTMENT BUSINESS
LICENSE NT FILE COMPLAINTS WITH
THE FTC AND BETTER BUSINESS
BUREAU THESE PEOPLE ARE NOT
AN EDUCATED GET RICH QUICK
SCHEME OURS THESE ARE NORMAL
PEOPLE TRYING TO CREATE A
FINANCIAL SECURITY THE SAME WAY
PROMINENT WEALTHY PEOPLE DEAL
GIVE THEM A VIABLE PLACE TO
TURN I RESPECTFULLY -- DRIVE UP
I THANK YOU VERY MUCH WILL GO
TO THOSE WHO ARE IN SUPPORT
OF THIS PLEASE COME FORWARD
JASON LANE CALIFORNIA
BANKERS ASSOCIATION
IN SUPPORT OF THE BILL
DANIELLE CANDLE BECAUSE OUR
BEHALF OF THE CALIFORNIA
LOW INCOME CONSUMER
COALITION IN SUPPORT
TO PRINT THE CUANDO
ON BEHALF OF CHAMBER
OF PROGRESS IN SUPPORT
GOOD AFTERNOON NEAR ME WITH
JOHN ON BEHALF THE CALIFORNIA
CREDIT UNION LEAGUE IN SUPPORT
GOOD AFTERNOON CAMERA DIMITRI
ON BEHALF OF DAPPER LABS
AND SO RARE IN A SUPPORTIVE
AMENDED POSITION THANK YOU
FOR WITH YOUR WORK WITH US
CHAIR MEMBERS ARE JUST A MONTH
THIS YEAR ON BEHALF OF THE
CRYPTO COUNCIL FOR INNOVATION
WHERE AN OPPOSE UNLESS AMENDED
POSITION BUT I WANT TO STRESS
THAT WE'VE BEEN HAVING SOME
VERY POSITIVE CONVERSATIONS
WITH MR GRAYSON AND -- REALLY
ENTHUSIASTIC ABOUT THE WORK
HE'S DONE YEARS OF THANK YOU
G.
MINOR BEHALF THE BLOCKCHAIN
ADVOCACY COALITION I'M ALSO
JUST APPRECIATED WORKING WITH
THE AUTHOR OVER THE FALL AND
LOOK FORWARD TO CONTINUING
TO DO SO ON SOME REMAINING
CONCERNS -- BUT YOU KNOW WE
THINK WE'LL BE ABLE TO GET
THERE THANK YOU THANK YOU
ARE THERE ANY OTHER COMMENTS
IN SUPPORT ANY OTHER WHICH
NOW WILL RUN A WITNESSES IN
OPPOSITION PLEASE COME FORWARD
C.
NINE TO THE COMMITTEE HAD
TO BRING IT FORWARD TO
THE COMMITTEE COMMENTS
OUR MOTION SECOND
OKAY WAIT WAIT YOUR MOTION
SUPPORT YOU'RE THE ORIGINAL
MOTION YOUR THE SECOND OKAY
AND YOU HAVE A COMMENT PLEASE
VISIT IT'S OKAY WE HAD TO
MOTIONS IN TWO SECONDS I'M LOTS
OF MOVEMENT ON YOUR BOOKS NO
I JUST WANTED TO THANK THEM
THE CHAIR FOR HIS WORK ON THIS
WE HAVE THAT HEARING EARLIER
THAT FOCUSED ON THIS ISSUE AND
I THINK I'M REALLY HIT HOME
THE IMPORTANCE OF THIS TOO I'M
CALIFORNIANS AND I THINK YOUR
CONTINUED VIGILANCE ON THIS
AN EFFORT TO MAKE IT HAPPEN
IS REALLY LAUDABLE AND I HOPE
THAT AND THIS TIME IT MAKES
IT A LOT THANK YOU SO MUCH
VERY GOOD ANY OTHER COMMENTS
FROM THE COMMITTEE MEMBERS
NOW I'M I JUST HAVE A COMMENT
THANK YOU FOR DOING THIS BILL
I AM IN SUPPORT OF IT BECAUSE
WE DID HAVE THAT AND --
INFORMATIONAL DISCUSSION OF A
MOTHER SO AGO DO YOU ANTICIPATE
THIS IS THE FIRST OF SEVERAL
ISSUES TO ADDRESS WITH REGARD
TO THE CRYPTO ISSUE AND AFFECTS
ARE WE GOING TO BE AND WHAT
WILL WE BE SEEING MORE IS THIS
REALLY GOING TO TAKE CARE OF
THE PROBLEM OR WHAT DO YOU SEE
GOING FORWARD JUST CURIOUSLY
I DON'T KNOW IF THIS IS THE
THE THE ANSWER THAT'S GOING
TO FIX EVERYTHING NOW HOWEVER
WE WILL SEE MORE AS INNOVATION
CONTINUES BUT THAT'S WHY WE DO
WHAT WE DO HERE YEAH TO BE ABLE
TO TRY TO -- CREATING A NET IN
WHICH WE CAN CATCH MOST AND AND
WILL CONTINUE TO MOVE FORWARD
WORK WITH -- THOSE THAT ARE A
REACHING OUT TO OUR OFFICE WE
CONTINUE TO HAVE A VERY OPEN UP
OPEN MIND AN OPEN CONVERSATION
GOOD I THINK THAT THE YOU'RE
DOING A GREAT JOB ALL RIGHT
US SECRETARY PLEASE CALL THE
ROLL AB THIRTY NINE THE MOTION
IS TO PASS AS AMENDED AND
ALREADY AND I DIDN'T ASK FOR
YOUR FINAL COMMENT I'M GOOD
ARE ALL RIGHT AB IS GONNA GET
OUT HERE SO THE MOTION IS TO
PASS AS AMENDED AND RE REFER
TO THE APPROPRIATIONS COMMITTEE
GRAYSON AYE GRAYSON AYE TEN OUR
QUE HAN MARCADO HIGH CERVANTES
CERVANTES AYE DIXON AYE DIXON
AYE MIKE FONG I THANK FONG HI
GABRIEL GABRIEL I FUTURE NORTH
BEACH NORTH ISAURIA I WALDRON
WALDRON I WICKS WICKS I.
WILSON -- ALL RIGHT ON THE
VOTE IS UNANIMOUS VERY GOOD
OF WE WILL HOLD IT OPEN ARE
THERE ANY ABSENT MEMBERS
WERE STILL WAITING FOR
OKAY ALL RIGHT THAT'S
TRUE AND NOW YOU'RE BACK
SO CHIEF CONTROLS GO THROUGH
ALL OF THE BILLS STARTING
WITH THE ITEM NUMBER ONE AB
FIVE FIVE FIFTY FOUR GABRIEL
AB FIVE FIFTY FOR THE MOTION
IS TO PASS CHEN WICKS WICKS I
FILE ITEM TO HOLD -- IT'S
YEAH THAT'LL GETS OUT THAT
BILL IS OUT AB TWELVE TWENTY
NINE HANEY THE MOTIONS TO PASS
AND REFERRED TO THE JUDICIARY
COMMITTEE CHEN PETRIE-NORRIS
PETRIE-NORRIS I WALDRON WALDRON
I WICKS HI AB TWENTY OR AB
TWELVE TWENTY NINE IS OUT AND
ITEM NUMBER THREE A.
B.
TWELVE FORTY SEVEN A.
B.
TWELVE FORTY SEVEN THE MOTIONS
TO PASS REFERRED APPROPRIATIONS
COMMITTEE CHEN PETER NORRIS
PETRIE-NORRIS I WALDRON
WALDRON HIGHWAY X.
WICKS HI AND THAT BILL IS OUT
AND ITEM NUMBER FOUR RIGHT AB
FOURTEEN APR FOURTEEN FOURTEEN
EIGHTY FOURTEEN FOURTEEN
KALRA THE MOTIONS TO PASS
AS AMENDED CHEN CERVANTES
CERVANTES I AM WALDRON
NOT VOTING WICKS HI WICKS BY
THE BILL IS OUT OF COMMITTEE
AND ITEM NUMBER FIVE AB THIRTY
NINE BUT WE GOT THAT WE WILL
GET ON THAT THE BILL IS OUT
AND CONSENT AB TWELVE NINETY
SIX ON THE CONSENT CALENDAR
THE MOTIONS DO PASSED TO THE
COMMITTEE ON APPROPRIATIONS
CHEN FUTURE NORTH NORTH I
WALDRON WALDRON I WICKS WICKS
HI SO WE HAVE COMPLETED OUR
AGENDA FOR TODAY'S HEARING
WE WILL BE -- I THINK WE'VE
COVERED ALL THE ROLE SO
ROLE IS CLOSED AND NOW --
WITH THAT ASSEMBLY BANKING
AND FINANCE COMMITTEE IS
ADJOURNED THANK YOU VERY MUCH