WE'RE MAKING A FINANCE COMMITTEE
IS CALLED THE BORDER. SERGEANT
IF YOU PLEASE CALL THE ABSENT
MEMBERS GREATLY APPRECIATED. WE
DO NOT HAVE A CORN, BUT WE CAN'T
START AS A SUBCOMMITTEE. BANKING
FINANCE COMMITTEE WHETHER YOU'RE
HERE IN PERSON OR WATCHING
VIRTUALLY I AM GRATEFUL YOU HAVE
JOINED US HERE IN ROOM 4 44.
TODAY WE WILL OUR TESTIMONY IN
PERSON. I ALSO WANT TO NOTE THAT
WE ARE ACCEPTING WRITTEN
TESTIMONY THROUGH THE POSITION
LETTER ON THE COMMITTEE'S
WEBSITE. SO WITH THAT, LET'S
MOVE ON TO THE HEARING. HAS SEEN
THE WE DON'T I WAS BORN YET. WE
WILL CONTINUE AS A SUBCOMMITTEE
. WE DON'T HAVE A CONSENT
CALENDAR SO WE WILL GO DIRECTLY
TO BUILD PRESENTATIONS. WE HAVE
ONE BILL UP TODAY THAT IS BUILT
A B 15 87 FILE ITEM NUMBER ONE.
THE RECOMMENDATION. IS THAT THE
SENATE AMENDMENT? CONCURRED IN
THAT ASSEMBLYMEMBER'S TEAM WHEN
YOU ARE READY, PLEASE BEGIN WITH
YOUR OWN. THANK YOU, MR CHAIR.
MAYBE 15 87 AS A VERY SIMPLE
BILL. WE HAVE MERCHANT CATEGORY
CODES FOR EVERY SINGLE KIND OF
RETAIL OPERATION YOU CAN THINK
OF THAT ARE USED BY CREDIT CARD
COMPANIES. WE ARE DIRECTING THE
CREDIT CARD COMPANIES TO USE THE
MERCHANT CATEGORY CODE THAT WAS
DEVELOPED IN 2022 BY THE
INTERNATIONAL ORGANIZATION OF
STANDARDIZATION. THIS CODE WOULD
BE SEPARATE FOR A FIREARMS
RETAILER CURRENTLY FIREARMS
RETAILERS ARE COMBINED WITH
SPORTING GOODS LIKE DICK'S
SPORTING GOODS. AND OBVIOUSLY IN
BIG FIVE AGAIN, THIS BILL
SPECIFIC TO ONLY CALIFORNIA
BUSINESSES, AND THIS WILL HELP
IN TERMS OF IDENTIFYING WHEN
THERE ARE ILLEGAL STRAW
PURCHASES OR HELP US IDENTIFY
ANY KIND OF ILLEGAL ACTIVITY. B
B HELPED FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT
WITH THAT RESPECT FOR US IF I
VOTE ON IT WOULD BE 15 87. WE
HAVE REBECCA MARCUS HERE ON
BEHALF OF THE BRADY CAMPAIGN AS
THE FIRST QUICKNESS REMEMBER,
BEFORE WE GO TO OUR WITNESS. I
WOULD LIKE TO ESTABLISH A CORPSE
SECRETARY. GRAYSON CHIN. CAN
CERVANTES DIXON, MIKE FONG
GABRIEL? PETRIE-NORRIS SORIA.
WALDRON WICKS WILSON. BèC BELL.
SO WE HAVE. QUORUM ESTABLISHED
THE CORE. UM, WE DO HAVE A
MOTION BY ASSEMBLYMEMBER'S
BARRICADE AT A SECOND BY
ASSEMBLYMEMBER'S GABRIEL AND WE
ARE READY TO HEAR FROM OUR
WITNESS. FANTASTIC GOOD
AFTERNOON CHAIR MEMBERS REBECCA
MARCUS, REPRESENTING THE BRADY
CAMPAIGN AND STRONG SUPPORT OF
15 87. SINCE EMOTIONS ALREADY
MADE, I'LL BE BRIEF, BUT
CALIFORNIA HAS BEEN A NATIONAL
LEADER ON FIGHTING GUN VIOLENCE
AND THE GUN LAWS PASSED BY THE
LEGISLATURE OF THE NATION'S
STRONGEST WITH THE RECENT
ESTABLISHMENT OF AN M C. C CODE
FOR FIREARMS BUSINESSES, WE NOW
HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY. TO UTILIZE
AN IMPORTANT TOOL TO PREVENT
ILLEGAL GUN TRAFFICKING AND MASS
SHOOTINGS. GUN TRAFFICKERS WERE
TO ONLY USED CREDIT CARDS TO BUY
THE GUNS THEY ILLEGALLY TRAFFIC
. SOME OF THESE ARE STOLEN
CREDIT CARDS AND SUMMER CARDS
USED IN STRAW PURCHASES THAT
STILL AREN'T SURE USE OF A TOOL
THAT CAN BE USED TO PREVENT GUN
VIOLENCE BEFORE IT HAPPENS. THE
BRADY CAMPAIGN ALONGSIDE OUR CO
SPONSOR, GIFFORDS ASKS FOR AN I
VOTE. THANK YOU. THANK YOU VERY
MUCH FOR YOUR TESTIMONY, AND DO
WE HAVE ANY OTHER WITNESSES IN
SUPPORT IN THE ROOM? PLEASE COME
FORWARD TO THE MICROPHONE. STATE
YOUR NAME SEEING NONE. DO WE
HAVE ANY WITNESSES IN
OPPOSITION? PLEASE COME FORWARD.
IF YOU WILL JUST STATE YOUR NAME
AND BEGIN WITH YOUR TESTIMONY.
THANK YOU SWEAT. SURE MR CHAIR
MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE FOR THE
RECORD DAN REED WITH THE
NATIONAL RIFLE ASSOCIATION.
WE'RE HEARING OPPOSITION TODAY.
UM OBVIOUSLY THIS HAS BEEN A
NEWER ISSUE THAT'S COME UP WITH
THESE CREDIT CARD CODES. AND I
THINK THERE'S A LOT OF QUESTIONS
ABOUT HOW THIS WORKS WHAT IT
ACTUALLY LOOKS LIKE AND WHAT ARE
THE ACTUAL LAW ENFORCEMENT
PURPOSES OF IT? BECAUSE MY
UNDERSTANDING OF MCC CODE IF YOU
DON'T ACTUALLY KNOW WHAT IS
BEING PURCHASED, SO IF YOU GO
INTO A SHOP AND YOU BUY A CANDY
BAR, OR YOU BUY A BOAT IT ONE OF
THESE ESTABLISHMENTS IT'S
REQUIRED TO USE THIS CODE. IT'S
GONNA BE A FIREARM OR AMMUNITION
TYPE CODE. IF YOU LOOK AT THIS
BILL THAT EXEMPTS OUR LARGEST
FIRE AND RETAILERS IN THE STATE,
UM WHERE PEOPLE OFTEN GO BY
FIREARMS AND AMMUNITION, SO IT'S
JUST GOING TO BE THE LITTLE GUYS
THAT DO THIS. THE SYSTEMS EASILY
BYPASSED, DEFEATED BY UTILIZING
CASH OR SOMEONE IS TRYING TO DO
, UM, TRAFFIC GUNS CREATES DRAW
PURCHASES. THERE ARE OTHER
OPTIONS AROUND THIS. I DON'T
KNOW HOW LAW ENFORCEMENT IS
TRIGGERED WITHOUT INVADING THE
PRIVACY OF PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING
OUT AND MAKING LAWFUL PURCHASES
IN THIS STATE. YOU HAVE TO GO
THROUGH A DEALER. THEY HAVE TO
BE A LICENSED DEALER, SO I DON'T
EXACTLY KNOW HOW THIS WORKS.
THERE'S NO GUIDANCE ON WHAT
CONSTITUTES SUSPICIOUS ACTIVITY.
IF YOU GO TO A STORE AND YOU BUY
$3000 WORTH OF FISHING LURES, IT
MIGHT TRIGGER AN MCC CODE IF
THAT'S WHAT CODE IS ASSIGNED TO
THAT PARTICULAR STORE. AND SO I
THINK IT PUTS SOME OF THOSE
FINANCIAL THOSE PAYMENT
PROCESSORS IN AN AWKWARD
SITUATION ABOUT THE BALANCE
BETWEEN PRIVACY OF THEIR
CONSUMERS. AND WHEN DID NOTIFY
LAW ENFORCEMENT? UM SO I'M VERY
CURIOUS ABOUT THAT. I'M UNAWARE
OF ANY OTHER MCC CODES THAT
CARRY A VIOLATION FOR NON USE.
UM IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THESE
CODES WERE NEVER INTENDED TO BE
UTILIZED FOR THIS. UM THERE'S
ALSO A HUGE INTERSTATE COMMERCE
QUESTION. THERE ARE SOME STATES
CURRENTLY ON THE BOOKS THAT BAN
THE USE OF THESE CODES. SO FOR
EXAMPLE, IF SOMEONE LIVES IN THE
STATE OF TEXAS OR IDAHO AND
WISHES TO PURCHASE A FIREARM
LEGALLY AND THEIR PURCHASING
FROM OUT OF STATE TO CALIFORNIA
DEALER HOW DO HOW DOES THE
PAYMENT PROCESS? THEY'RE
SUPPOSED TO HANDLE THAT? WHAT DO
THEY DO? WHAT KIND OF CONFLICT
IS THAT? CREATE? FOR THEM WHERE
IT'S BANNED IN A HOME STATE. I'M
NOT SURE I HAVEN'T HEARD A GOOD
ANSWER ON THAT QUESTION. I THINK
THAT'S SOMETHING UM, THAT NEEDS
TO BE WORKED OUT. I THINK A LOT
OF THESE DETAILS NEED TO BE
WORKED OUT. THANK YOU SO MUCH.
THANK YOU, MR CHAIR AND MEMBER
SAM PERETZ, REPRESENTING GUN
OWNERS OF CALIFORNIA, AND WE
ALSO HAVE SOME VERY SERIOUS
QUESTIONS NUMBER ONE, ALL OF THE
MAJOR CREDIT CARD COMPANIES WHEN
THIS ISSUE WAS BROUGHT UP ON A
NATIONAL LEVEL, MADE STATEMENTS
FROM THEIR CORPORATE LEVELS AND
EXECUTIVES THAT THEY WERE NOT
INTERESTED IN USING THESE THESE
CODES BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT THEY
DON'T SEE THEMSELVES AS A PART
OF THE LAW ENFORCEMENT PROCESS,
SO THAT'S GOING TO CREATE A
PROBLEM. SO WHAT? WHAT
CALIFORNIA SAYING, OKAY BISA,
MASTERCARD DISCOVER AMERICAN
EXPRESS. IF YOU DON'T USE THESE
CODES, WE'RE GOING TO FIND YOU.
YOU'RE GOING TO BE BREAKING THE
LAW AND WE'RE GOING TO FIND YOU
FOR NOT USING THESE CODES.
HERE'S ANOTHER THING IN
CALIFORNIA IF WE IF WE'RE
LOOKING AT SUSPICIOUS PURCHASES
AND THINGS LIKE THAT. IN
CALIFORNIA. WE HAVE A ONE GUN A
MONTH LAW SO YOU CAN'T BUY MORE
THAN ONE GUN OF ANY KIND PER
MONTH. AS A MATTER OF FACT, YOU
CANNOT BUY MORE THAN ONE PART
FOR A GUN. WITHIN ANY 30 DAY
PERIOD. SO UM, AND THE FACT THAT
THAT YOU KNOW A LOT OF THE
DEALERS THAT I THINK ARE TRYING
TO BE ENCOMPASSED IN THIS, UM
THE LEVEL OF INCOME THAT THEY
RECEIVE IS BELOW THE THRESHOLD
OF 50% FROM FIREARMS, AND
THEREFORE THEY DON'T HAVE TO
COMPLY THEM THE CREDIT CARD
COMPANIES DO NOT HAVE TO COMPLY
WITH DOING THAT, AND WE ARE
TALKING ABOUT THE PEOPLE. THE UM
RETAILERS THAT SELL.
SIGNIFICANTLY MORE THAN 50% OF
ALL OF THE GUNS IN THE STATE OF
CALIFORNIA. SO UM, THAT THAT IS
GOING TO BE A DIFFICULT THING.
ULTIMATELY WE'RE NOT THE ONES
WHO IS GOING TO SUE THE STATE OF
CALIFORNIA ON THIS ISSUE THE
CREDIT CARD COMPANIES IF THEY
DON'T LIKE MANDATES, AND THEY
MAY GO AHEAD AND CHALLENGE THIS
, BUT AS FAR AS MAKING THIS A
LAW ENFORCEMENT TOOL, IT JUST
DOESN'T HAPPEN. YOU CAN GO TO A
GUN STORE AND YOU CAN BUY A SAFE
MAYBE COST YOU $33,000. AND IS
THAT GOING TO TRIGGER? UM
SUSPICION, BUT THERE ARE NO GUNS
THAT ARE VALUED AT THAT LEVEL,
SO THEY YOU BUY ONE GUN A MONTH
THAT'S COMPLYING WITH CALIFORNIA
LAW. SO THIS UM, USE AS A TOOL
IS TRULY NOT EFFECTIVE AT
PROVIDING ANY SORT OF
INFORMATION TO LAW ENFORCEMENT.
AND NOW THAT MEANS THAT LAW
ENFORCEMENT COMPANIES ARE GOING
TO HAVE TO SUBPOENA OR OR OR GET
A COURT ORDER TO GET THIS
CONFIDENTIAL COMMERCIAL
INFORMATION FROM THE CREDIT CARD
COMPANIES IN ORDER TO CONDUCT
INVESTIGATIONS BECAUSE THE
CREDIT CARD COMPANIES HAVE SAID
THEY ARE NOT GOING TO AGGREGATE
THIS INFORMATION. THEY ARE NOT
GOING TO DO THAT. SO FOR THESE
REASONS, UM WE'RE IN PRETTY
STRONG OPPOSITION TO THIS BILL.
THANK YOU FOR YOUR TESTIMONY,
AND DO I HAVE FURTHER OPPOSITION
IN THE ROOM. IF SO, PLEASE STEP
FORWARD TO THE MICROPHONE. STATE
YOUR NAME SING NONE. WE WILL
BRING IT BACK TO THE COMMITTEE
FOR QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS. ARE
THERE QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS?
FROM THE COMMUNITY MEMBERS.
ASSEMBLYMEMBER'S DIXON. UM I'M
NEW HERE. SO KIND OF SO THIS IS
A GUTTED AMEND BILL, SO THIS IS
A FIRST AND ONLY POLICY
COMMITTEE THAT'S LOOKING AT
THIS. IS THERE ANY OTHER
COMMITTEE THAT WILL BE LOOKING
AT. DO WE KNOW IF THE BILL GETS
OUT OF THIS COMMITTEE, IT WILL
GO TO THE FLOOR. TO THE ASSEMBLY
FLOOR. CLAIRE IT WAS HURT IN THE
SENATE. SO, UM, I JUST BASED ON
HEARING THESE QUESTIONS FROM
THESE, GENTLEMEN, I JUST THINK
THIS IS THERE ARE A LOT OF
UNKNOWN ANSWERS AND I'M AFRAID
CONCERN. THAT LEGITIMATE PEOPLE
WHO HAVE NEVER BEEN INTO A GUN
STORE IN MY LIFE, SO I JUST
THINKING OF LEGITIMATE PEOPLE
WHO MAY BE GOING INTO THE STORES
AND MAKING LEGITIMATE PURPOSES.
PURCHASES WILL BE CAUGHT UP IN
THIS KIND OF AN INVASION OF
PRIVACY. IF YOU ASK ME, SO I'M
CONCERNED ABOUT THAT. I THINK
IT'S JUST TOO. I WOULD LIKE TO
HAVE MORE DISCUSSION ON THIS AND
HEAR MORE ABOUT IT, BUT WE'RE
RUSHING HIT SO QUICKLY. I DON'T
THINK THAT'S THE SMART THING TO
DO FROM GOOD POLICY MAKING.
THANK YOU. THANK YOU SIMILAR
MEMBER DIXON. ARE THERE ANY
OTHER COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS?
SEEING NONE. AUTHOR DO YOU WISH
TO MAKE A CLOSING STATEMENT?
QUICK QUICK, CLOSE AGAIN. THESE,
UH, MERCHANT CATEGORY CODES ARE
IN EXISTENCE TODAY WHEN YOU GET
YOUR CREDIT CARD BILL, YOU SEE
THE CODES FOR EVERY SINGLE
PURCHASE THAT YOU GET. THIS CODE
WAS DEVELOPED BY THE
INTERNATIONAL ORGANIZATION THAT
DEVELOPS CODES. SO AGAIN, ALL
ALL WE'RE ASKING FOR IS THAT THE
FIREARMS RETAILERS USE THE
CREDIT CARD COMPANIES USE A
SEPARATE CODE. CREATED BY THE
FIREARMS COMPANIES. AH THAT'S
SIMPLE. YOU GO TO A GAS STATION
GET A PURCHASE. THERE'S A CODE
YOU GO TO BOOKSTORE. THERE'S A
CODE. YOU GOT A CLOTHING STORE.
THERE'S A CODE. THERE'S NOTHING
UNFAMILIAR ABOUT THESE CODES OR
HOW THEY'RE USED. BY CREDIT CARD
COMPANIES AGAIN BUILDS VERY,
VERY SIMPLE BILL SHOULD THERE BE
ILLEGAL ACTIVITY? LAW
ENFORCEMENT DOES WHAT LAW
ENFORCEMENT DOES IN TERMS OF
INVESTIGATIONS, WHETHER YOU'RE
STEALING CLOTHES STEALING BOOKS.
STEALING FIREARMS, RIGHT? AND SO
AGAIN, THIS IS JUST ABOUT
GETTING THE CREDIT CARD
COMPANIES TO USE THIS CODE
RESPECT FOR US FOR A VOTE ON A B
15 87. THANK YOU.
ASSEMBLYMEMBER'S TEAM WITH THAT
WE WILL HAVE WE DO HAVE A MOTION
AND A SECOND. WE WILL CALL FOR
SECRETARY TO CALL ROLL. MAYBE 15
87. THE MOTION IS FOR SENATE
AMENDMENTS BE CONCURRED IN
GRAYSON, I CHEN. AMERICAN CAN I
? CERVANTES CERVANTES, I DICKSON
DICKSON. NO MIKE FONG MEI FONG,
I GABRIEL GABRIEL, I
PETRIE-NORRIS PETRIE-NORRIS EYES
. SORIA WALDRON. WALDRON NO
WEEKS WEEKS I WILSON. THAT BILL
HAS SEVEN VOTES. BILL HAS SEVEN
VOTES, IT GETS OUT AND WE WILL
HOLD IT OPEN FOR ABSENT MEMBERS.
THANK YOU, MR CHAIRMAN. THANK
YOU.
ASSEMBLY BANKING AND FINANCE
COMMITTEE IS ADJOURNED. THANK
YOU VERY MUCH.