GOOD AFTERNOON. WE'RE BRINGING
THE SELECT COMMITTEE ON RETAIL
THEFT TO ORDER I WANT TO WELCOME
EVERYONE TO THE INAUGURAL
HEARING OF THIS SELECT COMMITTEE
, WHICH SPEAKER REVIS RECENTLY
CREATED TO EXPLORE THE CHALLENGE
OF RETAIL CRIME THAT OUR
COMMUNITIES ARE FACING
THROUGHOUT THE STATE. IN ORDER
TO PROVIDE A FORUM FOR LOCAL
PARTICIPATION ON THIS ISSUE. WE
HOPE TO HOLD AT LEAST TWO
ADDITIONAL HEARINGS, ONE IN THE
LOS ANGELES AREA AND ONE IN THE
SAN FRANCISCO AREA. DATES FOR
THESE ADDITIONAL HEARINGS WILL
BE ANNOUNCED AS THEY'RE
CONFIRMED. TODAY WE WILL BE
HEARING FROM THREE PANELS AND ON
EACH PANEL, WE HAVE ENDEAVORED
TO BRING TOGETHER A VARIETY OF
STAKEHOLDERS AND A RANGE OF
PERSPECTIVES. YOU RECOGNIZE THAT
SOME PERSPECTIVES THAT WE NEED
TO EXPLORE ARE NOT REFLECTED IN
TODAY'S AGENDA. FOR EXAMPLE, A
FOCUS ON ONLINE FENCING
OPERATIONS AND THE ADEQUACY OF
TOOLS TO PREVENT ONLINE CRIME AS
WELL AS OUR ABILITY TO HEAR
DIRECTLY FROM SMALL BUSINESS
OWNERS AND LOCAL OFFICIALS AND
LEADERS WHO CAN BRING REAL LIFE
EXAMPLES AND IDEAS FOR REFORM.
WHICH WILL BE SUBJECTS THAT WE
WILL ADDRESS AT UPCOMING
HEARINGS IN LOS ANGELES AND IN
THE BAY AREA. FOR THOSE WHO WISH
TO PARTICIPATE IN PUBLIC COMMENT
AT THE END OF TODAY'S HEARING,
WE WILL WE WILL OPEN THE MIC FOR
PUBLIC COMMENT IN PERSON HERE IN
ROOM 1100. I WANT TO THANK
EVERYONE WHO'S ENGAGED SO FAR
AND SAY THAT WE LOOK FORWARD TO
CONTINUING TO LEARN FROM AND
WITH YOU. AS THIS SELECT
COMMITTEE CONTINUES ITS WORK
INTO 2024. RETAIL CRIME, WHICH
ENCOMPASSES SHOPLIFTING,
COMMERCIAL BURGLARY AND
COMMERCIAL ROBBERY INVOLVING
FORCES A CRISIS ACROSS THE
NATION. BUT ITS IMPACT IS
PARTICULARLY ACUTE HERE IN
CALIFORNIA, MOST NOTABLY, BUT
NOT EXCLUSIVELY IN THE BAY AREA,
THE CENTRAL VALLEY, THE LOS
ANGELES IN LOS ANGELES COUNTY,
WITH MY DISTRICT BEING ONE OF
THOSE HARDEST HIT I APPLAUD THE
GOVERNOR OF THE LEGISLATURE FOR
RECOGNIZING THE GRAVITY OF THIS
ISSUE BY INVESTING OVER $267
MILLION IN COMBATING ORGANIZED
RETAIL CRIME, BUT WE ALL
UNDERSTAND THAT MORE NEEDS TO BE
DONE. SINCE TAKING OFFICE ABOUT
A YEAR AGO. I'VE RECEIVED
COUNTLESS CALLS FROM COMMUNITY
LEADERS COUNCIL MEMBERS CHAMBER
OF COMMERCE, PRESIDENTS,
BUSINESS OWNERS AND OPERATORS,
PUBLIC SAFETY OFFICIALS AND
RESIDENTS EXPRESSING CONCERN AND
SOMETIMES OUTRAGE OVER THESE
INCIDENTS. WHAT WE HAVE BEFORE
US IS NO EASY TASK. RETAIL CRIME
IS AN EMOTIONAL ISSUE FOR MANY
OF OUR CONSTITUENTS. BUSINESS
OWNERS FEAR FOR THEIR
LIVELIHOODS, WORKERS FEAR FOR
THEIR WELL BEING, AND MEMBERS OF
THE PUBLIC WORRIED THAT IT MAY
NO LONGER BE SAFE FOR CONVENIENT
TO FREQUENT THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD
STORES. WE ARE HERE TODAY TO ASK
OURSELVES HARD QUESTIONS OF WHY
THIS IS HAPPENING AND WHAT WE
BOTH AS LEGISLATORS AND AS A
COMMUNITY CAN DO ABOUT IT. HOW
DID WE GET HERE? WHAT DO THE
NUMBERS SAY? AND IN WHAT WAYS
ARE THE NUMBERS NOT TELLING THE
WHOLE STORY WHEN WE HEAR THAT
PETTY SHOPLIFTING HAS DONE GONE
DOWN IN SOME PLACES IS THAT
BECAUSE THEFT HAS DECREASED, OR
IS IT BECAUSE THERE'S AN
INADEQUATE ENFORCEMENT AND
REPORTING OF CRIME? THAT'S
PERCEPTION, MATCH REALITY. AND
DOES THAT DISTINCTION MATTER?
HOW DO WE AVOID THE MISTAKES OF
THE PAST WHILE NAVIGATING THIS
RAPIDLY CHANGING WORLD AND
ASSURING THAT WE TAKE STEPS TO
REALLY SOLVE THIS PROBLEM AND
MOVE INTO A BETTER FUTURE? I'M
SURE THAT MANY OF YOU IN THIS
ROOM HAVE EXPERIENCED THE
INCONVENIENCE OF HAVING TO CALL
SOMEONE OVER TO UNLOCK THE
TOOTHPASTE OR LAUNDRY DETERGENT
OR PERHAPS, LIKE MANY, LIKE SO
MANY YOU DECIDED TO BUY ONLINE
INSTEAD. YET ANOTHER WAY RETAIL
CRIME HAS UNDERMINED LOCAL
BUSINESSES IN OUR COMMUNITIES.
BUT RETAIL CRIME IS NOT ONLY BAD
FOR BUSINESS. IT ALSO UNDERMINES
SAFETY AND THE PERCEPTION OF
SAFETY AND OUR COMMUNITIES. AND
WHEN RETAILERS CLOSED THEIR
DOORS, THE, UH THOSE BURDEN
LOCATIONS BECOME DEAD ZONES.
WORKERS LOSE THEIR JOBS AND
AREAS BECOME BLIGHTED AND THE
ENTIRE COMMUNITY SUPPERS. MUCH
OF THE DISCUSSION AROUND RETAIL
CRIME HAS REVOLVED AROUND
WHETHER PROP 47 IS GOOD OR BAD,
AND WHETHER WE NEED TO MODIFY
IT. PROP 47 IS CLEARLY A
BACKDROP TO OUR INQUIRY. I HOPE
THIS COMMITTEE WILL FOCUS ON
IDENTIFYING THE ROOT CAUSES OF
THIS GROWING TREND OF RETAIL
CRIME, AND THE BEST APPROACH IS
TO ADDRESS IT. ONCE WE HAVE DONE
THAT WE CAN CONSIDER STEPS THAT
WE CAN TAKE THIS YEAR IN THE
LEGISLATURE AND WHAT PARTS OF A
COMPREHENSIVE STRATEGY MIGHT
REQUIRE GOING BACK TO THE
VOTERS. I HAVE A HOST OF
QUESTIONS THAT NEED TO BE
ANSWERED. SOME OF THEM ARE. HOW
DID WE GET HOW DO WE GET TO THE
ORGANIZED CRIME RINGS IS THE
PROBLEM. ONE OF DEFECTS IN OUR
LAWS ARE ONE OF LACK OF
REPORTING AND ENFORCEMENT. IS
THERE A NEED TO MODIFY OUR LAWS
TO MORE EASILY? AGGREGATE
MULTIPLE CRIMES THAT HAPPEN AT
DIFFERENT TIMES AND LOCATIONS TO
HAVE BETTER TOOLS TO STOP
ORGANIZED RINGS IS THE $950
FELONY THRESHOLD. THE PROBLEM OR
IS THERE A LACK OF ENFORCEMENT
FOR MISDEMEANOR THEFT, WHICH
ALREADY CARRIES UP TO A YEAR IN
JAIL? WELL, EVERY MEMBER OF THIS
COMMITTEE WILL HAVE THEIR OWN
QUESTIONS. I KNOW THAT EACH OF
MY COLLEAGUES SHARES MY DESIRE
TO TACKLE THIS GROWING CHALLENGE
AS THE SPEAKER RIVAS WITH THAT.
I'D LIKE TO WELCOME OUR
PANELISTS AND AUDIENCE TO THE
FORUM AND GIVE MEMBERS OF OUR
BIPARTISAN COMMITTEE AN
OPPORTUNITY TO PROVIDE OPENING
COMMENTS. WE'RE FORTUNATE TODAY
TO HAVE NEARLY ALL OF OUR
COMMITTEE MEMBERS PRESENT AND I
WANT TO THANK THEM ALL FOR
TRAVELING TO UP TO SACRAMENTO
FROM THEIR HOMES BECAUSE OF THE
IMPORTANCE OF THIS IN SHIPS OF
THIS ISSUE, BUT IN THE INTEREST
OF TIME, I'D LIKE TO ASK EACH
MEMBER TO LIMIT OPENING REMARKS
TO ABOUT TWO MINUTES TO ENSURE
THAT EVERYONE HAS AN OPPORTUNITY
TO SPEAK, AND SO THAT WE CAN GET
TO THE PRESENTATIONS FROM OUR
VARIOUS PANELISTS. I'D LIKE TO
START BY RECOGNIZING
ASSEMBLYMEMBER'S MCCARTHY, THE
NEW CHAIR OF THE PUBLIC SAFETY
COMMITTEE, AND THEN I'LL
RECOGNIZE OTHERS FROM THERE.
THANK YOU, UH, ASSEMBLYMEMBER'S
OF BIRTH FOR GATHERING US HERE
TODAY, AND I KNOW THAT THE
SPEAKER IS GOING TO BE JOINING
US AS WELL. I THINK IT'S
IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT THIS IS
THE ONLY SELECT COMMITTEE THAT
WE ESTABLISHED IN THE FINAL
MONTHS OF 2023. IT'S AN
IMPORTANT TOPIC THAT WE HEAR
FROM ACROSS OUR STATES, AND WE
NEED A VINEYARD BE SOBER BY THE
FACTS AND THE REALITY AND THIS
IS WHAT THIS COMMITTEE IS ABOUT.
THERE'S A LOT OF OPINIONS AND
FACTOIDS AND SEE THINGS ON
TIKTOK AND INSTAGRAM. BUT THIS
IS ABOUT LEARNING WHAT THE
REALITY IS. WE ALL WE'VE ALL
SEEN THESE THINGS WITH OUR OWN
TWO EYES. I SAW IT AS RECENTLY
AS FOUR DAYS AGO IN SAN
FRANCISCO. UM RIGHT IN FRONT OF
ME AT RETAIL THEFT OF
CONFRONTATION WITH THE SECURITY
GUY OVER GOING OVER THE COUNTER,
RIPPING OFF SOME PRESCRIPTIONS,
AND I WASN'T SAW HIM. I ASKED
SOME QUESTIONS, SO WE'VE ALL
SEEN IT. BUT THIS ISN'T ABOUT
OVERREACTING. IT'S ABOUT LOOKING
AT WHAT'S BEFORE US TODAY. AND
POTENTIALLY BRINGING SOME REAL
SOLUTIONS. SO AS YOU MENTIONED,
I DO TAKE THIS NEW POSITION AS
CHAIR OF THE PUBLIC SAFETY
COMMITTEE SERIOUSLY AND
PARTNERING WITH THIS COMMITTEE.
AND YOU KNOW, REALIZING THAT THE
OUR CONSTITUENTS IN SACRAMENTO
AND CALIFORNIA WANT US TO TAKE
THIS ISSUE SERIOUSLY AND NOT
JUST TINKER AROUND THE MARGINS
AND FOCUSING ON ACCOUNTABILITY.
REAL ACCOUNTABILITY, MORE
ACCOUNTABILITY, BUT ALSO THE
FLIP SIDE. DON'T OVERREACT.
WE'RE NOT GOING BACK TO THE
NINETIES. AND MASS INCARCERATION
20 YEARS PLUS FOR STEALING A
PIECE OF PIZZA, SO I THINK WE
NEED TO KIND OF THINK THOSE
BOOKMARKS IN REALITY AND
FOCUSING ON WHAT OPTIONS WE HAVE
. UM AND I WILL SAY THAT YOU
KNOW, THIS IS THE BEGINNING. BUT
IN THE POLICY COMMITTEE, WE WILL
TAKE THESE POTENTIAL REMEDIES
SERIOUSLY, AND WE WILL ACT THIS
YEAR IN 2024 AND BRING IT ABOUT
SOME SOLUTIONS THAT THAT IS THE
ENTIRE STATE OF CALIFORNIA.
THANK YOU. THANK YOU. SOMEBODY
REMEMBER CARD I'D LIKE TO NOW
RECOGNIZE ASSEMBLYMEMBER'S
PACHECO. I'M GONNA GO BACK AND
FORTH. THANK YOU, MR CHAIR. I
JUST WANT TO SAY IT'S SUCH A
PLEASURE TO BE HERE WITH, UM, MY
COMMITTEE MEMBERS WITH MR CHAIR
AND WITH EVERYONE HERE IN THE
AUDIENCE. UM I'M LOOKING FORWARD
TO THE DISCUSSIONS THAT WE WILL
HAVE IN RESPECT TO RETAIL THEFT.
WE HAVE SEEN THAT IN CALIFORNIA.
THERE HAS BEEN AN INCREASE IN
RETAIL THEFT WITH 90% OF SMALL
BUSINESS RETAILERS. EXPERIENCING
THEFT AT THEIR STORES AND 83%
BELIEVE IN RETAIL THEFT IS AT
LEAST A MAJOR ISSUE. AND SO WE
ARE TAKING THIS ISSUE SERIOUS.
WE'RE LOOKING FORWARD TO THE
CONVERSATIONS THAT WE WILL HAVE
TODAY AND THROUGHOUT THE STATE
OF CALIFORNIA, AND SO I WANT TO
THANK ALL OF YOU FOR BEING HERE
FOR HAVING THESE IMPORTANT
CONVERSATIONS, AND MY HOPE IS
THAT WE FIND SOME IMPROVEMENTS
AND EVIDENCE BASED SOLUTIONS. TO
THIS VERY SERIOUS ISSUE IN THE
STATE OF CALIFORNIA, SO THANK
YOU. THANK YOU. I'D LIKE TO CALL
ON SOMEBODY MEMBER COLONIES.
THANK YOU, MR CHAIR. THANK YOU.
EVERYBODY FOR JOINING US TODAY,
LOOKING FORWARD TO HEARING
DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES ON OUR
RETAIL THEFT HAS AFFECTED
CALIFORNIA IN GENERAL. I'M
LOOKING FORWARD TO THE REMEDIES
THAT WE MAY BE COMING UP WITH.
IT'S UNFORTUNATE THAT OUR
BUSINESSES FOR THESE MANY YEARS
HAVE HAD TO SUFFER THE BURDENS
OF RETAIL THEFT, AND I'M HOPING
THAT THIS COMMITTEE WILL GIVE
THEM SOME HOPE. FOR THE FUTURE
WHERE THEY COULD BE HELPED OUT.
THANK YOU. THANK YOU SUDDENLY
REMEMBER, ORTEGA? THANK YOU,
CHAIR AND COMMITTEE MEMBERS AS
WELL AS OUR SPEAKER FOR ALLOWING
THIS COMMITTEE TO HAPPEN TODAY.
AS WE MENTIONED THIS IS AN
IMPORTANT ISSUE IMPACTING THE
ENTIRE STATE OF CALIFORNIA AND
SOMETHING THEY WERE LOOKING TO
TAKE SERIOUSLY COMPREHENSIVELY
TO DEVELOP SOME ACTION COMING
OUT OF THESE DIFFERENT
COMMITTEES THERE WERE GOING TO
BE HOSTING AS YOUR NEW LABOR
CHAIR, SPECIFICALLY THANKFUL
THAT WE'RE HAVING SUCH A
COMPREHENSIVE APPROACH TO THIS
BY MAKING SURE THAT WE INVITED
UFCW. I WILL BE PARTICULARLY
LOOKING AT THE HEALTH AND SAFETY
OF MANY OF THE EMPLOYEES THAT
HAVE BEEN ON THE FRONT LINE OF
SOME OF THE RETAIL THEFT THAT'S
BEEN HAPPENING. SO THANK YOU SO
MUCH. APPRECIATE, UH, THOUGHT OF
THIS. THANK YOU.
ASSEMBLYMEMBER'S NOW I LIKE TO
CALL ON ASSEMBLYMEMBER'S FONG.
THANK YOU, UH, THANK YOU. CHAIRS
OF ERA FOR, UH, FOR ORGANIZING
THIS, UM, THIS IMPORTANT
COMMITTEE HEARING. WE HAVE ALL
SEEN THE HORRIFIC, BRAZEN FLASH
MY PROPERTIES AT SHOPPING
CENTERS, WHICH ARE BECOMING MORE
AND MORE PROLIFIC THIEVES ARE
SHAMELESSLY STEALING. AH
PACKAGES OFF SHELVES, TRUCKS AND
OUR PORCHES AND THAT'S AN AREA
CERTAINLY THAT NEEDS ALSO A LOT
OF ATTENTION. PORCH PIRATES.
ROBBING MORE PACKAGES WITH THE
HOLIDAY SEASON. THE QUESTIONS WE
ARE FACED WITH NOW OR WHY ARE
THE WHY ARE THEY? WHY ARE WHY IS
RETAIL THEFT INCREASED SO MUCH?
OR BETTER YET, WHY ARE THIEVES
ARRESTED? ONLY TO BE RELEASED
JUST HOURS LATER. WHY ARE THERE
NOT MORE CONSEQUENCES FOR THESE
CRIMINAL ACTIVITIES? THE NEWS
OFTEN SHOWS HIGH END STORES
BEING SMASHED AND TRASHED. BUT
THE MOM AND POP SHOPS AND MY
COMMUNITY AND DEPARTMENT STORES
THROUGHOUT THE CENTRAL VALLEY
HAVE NOT BEEN SPARED. CONTRARY
TO WHAT SOME MAY CLAIM. THESE
CRIMINAL HEIGHTS ARE NOT
VICTIMLESS CRIMES. THEY CREATED
DANGEROUS SITUATION BEFORE,
DURING AND ESPECIALLY AFTER THE
CRIME AS STEVE'S RUSHED TO
GETAWAY CARS, SHOPPERS AND
EMPLOYEES ARE LEFT TERRIFIED AND
TRAUMATIZED. A LAW ENFORCEMENT
OFFICIALS ARE DOING A TREMENDOUS
JOB CATCHING THESE THIEVES.
CRIMINALS KNOW THAT CURRENT LAWS
HAMSTRING THE DISTRICT
ATTORNEY'S ABILITY TO PROSECUTE
THEM. ACCOUNTABILITY MUST BE
BROUGHT. BACK TO DETER THESE
CRIMINALS. THERE MUST BE TEETH
IN THE LAWS TO CHANGE BEHAVIOR
TO SET A STANDARD OF DECORUM FOR
CIVILIZED SOCIETY AND KEEP THE
PUBLIC SAFE. EVERY SINGLE TIME.
THERE'S A FLASH MOB FLASH, MILD
PROPERTY OR OUR SENSE OF
SECURITY IS ERODED. EACH OF
THESE HEISTS TAKEAWAY FROM OUR
PEACE OF MIND WHEN WE GO
SHOPPING WITH THEIR FAMILIES,
UH, WE AS A COMMUNITY DESERVE TO
FEEL SAFE, AND IT'S TIME THAT WE
SIDE WITH LAW ENFORCEMENT AND
NOW CRIMINALS. THANK YOU, MR
CHAIR. THANK YOU SOMETHING.
WE'RE BONDED. DID YOU WANT TO
MAKE ANY OPENING COMMENTS? THANK
YOU, MR CHAIR FOR CONVENING THIS
VERY IMPORTANT CONVERSATION.
IT'S NOT LOST ON ME THAT WHILE
WE ARE SITTING HERE, OUR
FAMILIES AND FRIENDS AND
CONSTITUENTS ARE DOING THEIR
HOLIDAY SHOPPING. OUR RETAILERS
AND BUSINESS OWNERS ARE RELYING
ON THE ABILITY TO HAVE A SECURE
AND SAFE ENVIRONMENT AS THEY ARE
TRYING TO ESTABLISH AND MAKE
SURE THAT THEIR BUSINESSES
THRIVE. AND OUR COMMUNITY
MEMBERS CAN FEEL COMFORTABLE IN
DOING THEIR ACTIVITIES TO
SUPPORT OUR ECONOMY. I WOULD
LIKE TO THANK MR SPEAKER FOR NOT
JUST BEING PRESENT, AS I'M SURE
HE WILL BE AT SOME POINT, BUT
ALSO TAKING THE INITIATIVE TO
CREATE THIS SELECT COMMITTEE.
RETAIL THEFT IS A CONCERN ACROSS
THE STATE CERTAINLY IS IN MY
DISTRICT. I'VE MET WITH BUSINESS
OWNERS AND CONCERNED COMMUNITY
MEMBERS WHO HAVE EXPRESSED
FRUSTRATION THAT NOTHING SEEMS
TO BE GOING AND THAT THEY ARE AT
THE POINT OF NEEDING TO TAKE
THEIR OWN ACTION. I'VE SEEN THE
DESPERATION IN THEIR EYES OF
SMALL BUSINESS OWNERS, UH, IN
ACROSS THE CITY OF OAKLAND AND
ALAMEDA AND IN EMERYVILLE. WHO
HAVE JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE
THAT THEY CAN HAVE CLEAN
STOREFRONTS. UH THAT THEY'RE
FIXED. BROKEN GLASSES CAN BE
FIXED AND THAT THEY ARE NOT HIT
AGAIN. I'VE ALSO READ THE
STATEMENTS OF BUSINESS OWNERS
WHO HAVE DECIDED THAT THE COST
OF DOING BUSINESS IN MY DISTRICT
IS TOO MUCH, AND THEY DECIDED TO
SHUTTER THEIR DOORS FOREVER. SO
THIS IS CERTAINLY AN ISSUE THAT
WE NEED TO BE INCREDIBLY
CONCERNED ABOUT. I'M ALSO
CONCERNED ABOUT THE EXTENT TO
WHICH SOCIAL MEDIA POTENTIALLY
IS. AH NOT FULLY REPRESENTING
THE EXTENT OF THE INSTANCES OF
CRIME THAT WE ARE EXPERIENCING
OR THE ROOT CAUSE OF THAT CRIME,
AND I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO A
VERY ROBUST CONVERSATION, UH, TO
ENSURE THAT WE'RE ADDRESSING
RETAIL THEFT AND ORGANIZED
RETAIL THEFT IN A WAY THAT IS
BALANCED THAT DOES NOT RUSH TO
CONCLUSIONS AROUND. A PARTICULAR
SET OF PRIOR POLICIES, AND THAT
ENSURES THAT WE ARE LOOKING MORE
AT THE INCREASING TRENDS AND
SOLUTIONS THAT MIGHT ACTUALLY
HELP ALL PARTIES INVOLVED.
RECOGNIZING THAT WE NEED TO
ENSURE THAT OUR POLICE
DEPARTMENTS ARE ADDRESSING THE
CALLS AND MAKING THE ARREST THAT
THEY NEED TO THAT. WE HAVE
BUSINESS OWNERS IN A POSITION TO
BE ABLE TO COMBAT THE INSTANCE
OF PRIME THAT THEY ARE FACING
THAT THEY HAVE THE RESOURCES
THAT THEY NEED IN ORDER TO BE
ABLE TO FULLY ADDRESS THESE
CONCERNS RELATED TO SECURITY.
AND THEN OUR COMMUNITY FEEL SAFE
. I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO A
CONVERSATION THAT IS ROBUST. AND
DOES NOT COME TO ANY PARTICULAR
UH, PRIOR CONCLUSIONS AS WE
ENGAGE IN THIS CONVERSATION.
THANK YOU. THANK YOU.
ASSEMBLYMEMBER'S BANTA. THANK
YOU MEMBERS FOR JOINING US
TODAY. UH, OH, SORRY.
ASSEMBLYMEMBER'S SZABO. I WAS
GOING BACK AND FORTH TO ME, TOO.
UM THANK YOU. NO THANK YOU.
CHAIR. I WANT TO THANK THE CHAIR
IN THE SPEAKER FOR BRINGING THIS
COMMITTEE TOGETHER. AND UM, YOU
KNOW, IT'S AN IMPORTANT ISSUE IN
MY IN MY DISTRICT IN MY
COMMUNITY OF MET WITH A NUMBER
OF BUSINESS OWNERS RECENTLY TO
PREPARE FOR THIS HEARING, UM AND
REALLY GET A GOOD SENSE OF
WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE GROUND,
AND PEOPLE ARE CONCERNED AND UM
AND EXHAUSTED AND FRUSTRATED.
AND UM, AND SO, YOU KNOW, I'M
REALLY LOOKING FORWARD TO THE
DISCUSSION THAT WE HAVE TODAY TO
MAKE SURE THAT THIS IS, YOU
KNOW, A PROCESS THAT REALLY
SHEDS MORE LIGHT ON THE FACTS OF
WHAT WE ARE FACING AND UM AND
CAN HELP US REALLY UNDERSTAND
WHAT BUSINESSES ARE EXPERIENCING
ON THE GROUND. UM YOU KNOW,
THROUGH THESE MEETINGS WITH
SMALL BUSINESSES IN OUR
COMMUNITY IMPACTED BY REAL
RETAIL THEFT, AS WELL, AS YOU
KNOW, I MET WITH THE D A OF LOS
ANGELES TO HEAR ABOUT THE WORK
THAT THEY'RE DOING SPECIFICALLY
IN THIS ISSUE, UM, AND IN AN
EFFORT TO ENSURE EVERYONE IN OUR
COMMUNITY, INCLUDING SMALL
BUSINESSES ARE SAFE AND
PROTECTED FROM CRIME. UM I THINK
THAT YOU KNOW IT'S OUR JOB TO
REALLY FOCUS ON. THE TRUE
NUMBERS AND, UM, AND REAL
SOLUTIONS. AND SO I'M THANKFUL
FOR OUR PANELISTS WHO ARE HERE
TODAY TO HELP US WITH THAT
PROCESS, AND YOU KNOW, HOPING
THAT TOGETHER WE CAN IDENTIFY
THE ROOT CAUSES OF THESE CRIMES
AND LOOK AT THE DATA THAT WE CAN
USE TO DEVELOP POLICIES THAT
WILL HAVE A REAL IMPACT. I THINK
IT'S ALSO IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT
UM, THAT THERE'S BEEN SOME
REALLY UNPRODUCTIVE NARRATIVE
AROUND THIS ISSUE, BOTH IN
SOCIAL MEDIA AND IN THE MEDIA,
UM, WHETHER IT'S TO GET CLICKS
AND VIEWS AND WHATEVER ELSE
PEOPLE ARE GOING FORWARD AND
ALSO IN THE POLITICAL SPHERE FOR
POLITICAL GAIN, AND, UM I'M VERY
CONCERNED ABOUT THAT, BECAUSE IN
THE END, THE PEOPLE WHO ARE
SUFFERING ARE THE PEOPLE IN OUR
COMMUNITY WHO ARE NOT GETTING
REAL SOLUTIONS WHEN THIS
HAPPENS. UM AND SO, YOU KNOW, I
THINK THAT OUR WORK IS TO REALLY
MAKE SURE THAT WE HOLD CRIMINALS
ACCOUNTABLE THAT WE ADDRESS ROOT
CAUSES AND THAT WE ALSO, YOU
KNOW, HOLD THOSE ACCOUNTABLE WHO
ARE USING THIS IN A WAY THAT IS
FOR THEIR OWN GAIN INSTEAD OF
ACTUALLY, UM, FOR THE GAIN OF
THE WORK THAT WE'RE HERE TO DO,
AND SO, YOU KNOW, LOOKING
FORWARD TO THE CONVERSATION
TODAY, THE WORK THAT WILL COME
OUT OF THIS COMMITTEE, UM, AND
THANK THE CHAIR AND THE SPEAKER
AGAIN FOR PUTTING THIS THIS
COMMITTEE TOGETHER AND TO BE A
PART OF IT. THANK YOU. SOMEBODY
SZABO AND APOLOGIES. I WAS NOT
LOOKING TO MY LEFT ENOUGH. UM SO
FIRST OF ALL I WANT TO BRING IN
THE FIRST PANEL UP IF WE COULD
COME ON UP TO THE AH! SO THIS
FIRST PANEL IS INTENDED TO
PROVIDE SORT OF A LEVEL SET FOR
MEMBERS OF THE SELECT COMMITTEE
AND FOR THE PUBLIC. UM AND SO
I'D LIKE TO, UH, WELCOME THE
FIRST PANEL, WHICH WILL PROVIDE
AN OVERVIEW OF RELEVANT LAW DATA
TRENDS AND TO LAY A FOUNDATION
FOR THE CONVERSATION TO COME
WITH US TODAY. I AM GRATEFUL
THAT WE'RE JOINED BY CAITLIN
O'NEIL FROM THE LEGISLATIVE
ANALYST'S OFFICE. AS WELL AS
MAGNUS LOST REM FROM THE PUBLIC
POLICY INSTITUTE OF CALIFORNIA.
YOU EACH HAVE SEVEN MINUTES FOR
YOUR PRESENTATIONS. PLEASE
PROCEED WHEN YOU'RE READY, MISS
O'NEIL. THANK YOU, CAITLIN
O'NEIL WITH THE LEGISLATIVE
ANALYST'S OFFICE. I'LL BE
SPEAKING TODAY FROM A HANDOUT
CALLED OVERVIEW OF STATE LAW
RELATED TO RETAIL CRIME THAT'S
AVAILABLE IN HARD COPY HERE IN
THE HEARING ROOM WITH THE
SERGEANT'S AS WELL AS ON THE
COMMITTEE'S WEBSITE. TURNING TO
PAGE TWO. I'LL PROVIDE A BRIEF
OVERVIEW OF HOW FELONIES AS
OPPOSED TO MISDEMEANORS ARE
TREATED AT CERTAIN STAGES OF THE
CRIMINAL JUSTICE PROCESS, AND,
UH I JUST WANT TO MENTION HERE
THAT THERE IS A CATEGORY OF
CRIMES THAT CAN BE CHARGED AS
EITHER FELONIES OR MISDEMEANORS
THAT ARE OFTEN CALLED WARBLERS.
SO AT THE POINT OF ARREST TO
MAKE AN ARREST WITHOUT A WARRANT
A WARRANT AN OFFICER NEEDS
PROBABLE CAUSE THAT THE PERSON
COMMITTED THE CRIME, BUT THERE'S
GENERALLY AN ADDITIONAL
REQUIREMENT IN THE CASE OF
ARREST FOR MISDEMEANORS, WHICH
IS AT THE CRIME HAS TO HAVE BEEN
COMMITTED IN THE PRESENCE OF THE
OFFICER OR IN THE PRESENCE OF A
PRIVATE PERSON WHO THEN
DELEGATES THEIR AUTHORITY TO
MAKE A CITIZEN'S ARREST. TO AN
OFFICER. AFTER THE POINT OF
ARREST. PEOPLE ARRESTED FOR
FELONIES OR WARBLERS ARE TAKEN
TO JAIL AND BOOKED AND HELD IN
JAIL UNTIL ARRAIGNMENT, WHEREAS
THE DEFAULT UM IS THE REVERSE
FOR CRIMES THAT ARE STRAIGHT
MISDEMEANORS, AND THEY ARE
TYPICALLY CITED IN THE FIELD AND
RELEASED. UM, UNLESS CERTAIN
STATUTORY EXEMPTIONS ARE MET,
SUCH AS THE PERSON BEING SO
INTOXICATED, THEY COULD BE A
DANGER. TO THEMSELVES OR OTHERS,
IN WHICH CASE PEOPLE THEN CAN BE
HELD IN TOLERATE MINT ON A
MISDEMEANOR. ARREST WHEN IT
COMES TO SENTENCING. UM, ON PAGE
THREE. NOW, UM PEOPLE CONVICTED
OF FELONIES CAN BE SENTENCED TO
STATE PRISON OR COUNTY JAIL AND
OR COMMUNITY SUPERVISION,
DEPENDING ON THEIR CRIMINAL
HISTORY AND THE DISCRETION OF
THE JUDGE. FOR MISDEMEANOR
CONVICTIONS. PEOPLE CAN BE, UH,
SENTENCED TO JAIL COUNTY
COMMUNITY SUPERVISION OF FINE OR
SOME COMBINATION. TURNING TO
PAGE FOUR. WE HAVE A BRIEF
OVERVIEW OF PROPOSITION 47,
WHICH WAS APPROVED BY THE VOTERS
IN 2014 AND REDUCE PENALTIES FOR
CERTAIN DRUG POSSESSION AND
PROPERTY CRIMES FROM WARBLERS TO
MISDEMEANORS. THE MEASURE
LIMITED THESE REDUCED PENALTIES
TO CERTAIN TO PEOPLE WHO HAVE
NOT COMMITTED CERTAIN SEVERE
FELONIES SUCH AS MURDER OR ARE
NOT REQUIRED TO REGISTER AS SEX
OFFENDERS AND ALL REFER TO THAT
POPULATION FOR SHORT AS EXCLUDED
POPULATION. PROP 47 ALSO
AUTHORIZED RE SENTENCING OF
PEOPLE PREVIOUSLY CONVICTED OF
CRIMES AFFECTED BY THE MEASURE
AND REQUIRES THAT THE STATE
SAVINGS RESULTING FROM THE
MEASURE BE ANNUALLY, UH,
TRANSFERRED TO A SPECIAL FUND
AND SPENT ON CURRENCY
PREVENTION, TREATMENT AND VICTIM
SERVICES. TURNING TO PAGE FOUR
PROPOSITION. 47 ALLOWS ITS
PROVISIONS TO BE AMENDED BY A
TWO THIRDS VOTE, TWO THIRDS VOTE
SO LONG AS THE AMENDMENT
FURTHERS THE INTENT OF THE
MEASURE OR A MAJORITY VOTE TO
REDUCE ANY OF THE PENALTIES
AFFECTED BY THE MEASURE. THE
NEXT FEW PAGES STARTING ON PAGE
SIX, PROVIDE AN OVERVIEW OF HOW
OF WHAT THE CURRENT, UM LEGAL
LANDSCAPE IS ON CRIMES THAT MAY
COMMENT COMMONLY AFFECT RETAIL
ESTABLISHMENTS. UM SO THAT'S
DISPLAYED IN THE TABLE ON EACH
PAGE. AND THEN THE BULLETS BELOW
, UH, DESCRIBE SOME OF THE
NOTABLE CHANGES IN LAW THAT HAVE
LED US TO WHERE WE ARE WITH THE
CURRENT STATE OF LAW. SO ON PAGE
SIX. WE HAVE PETTY VERSUS GRAND
THEFT, THE TWO DEGREES OF THEFT
AND UNDER CURRENT LAW THEFT, UH
OF PROPERTY OTHER THAN A FIREARM
WORTH 950 OR LESS IS A STRAIGHT
MISDEMEANOR. UM REGARD EXCEPT
FOR THAT EXCLUDED POPULATION
THAT I MENTIONED EARLIER. UH
OTHER STEPS ABOVE 950 ARE
WARBLERS PUNISHABLE BY UP TO
THREE YEARS OF INCARCERATION. SO
PRIOR TO PROPOSITION, 47, THE
$950 THRESHOLD WAS ALREADY IN
PLACE FOR MANY TYPES OF THEFT.
HOWEVER THERE WERE SOME
EXCEPTIONS, SUCH AS IF CERTAIN
TYPES OF PROPERTY LIKE A VEHICLE
WAS STOLEN, OR IF THE INDIVIDUAL
HAD CERTAIN PRIOR CONVICTIONS
FOR, UH, SPECIFIC PROPERTY
CRIMES. THEY COULD BE, UM,
CHARGED AS IT WITH A FELONY FOR
THEFT UNDER $950. UM AND SO
PROPOSITION 47, AND THAT WAS
CALLED PETTY THEFT WITH A PRIOR
WHICH YOU MAY HEAR A REFERENCED,
UM, PROPOSITION, 47 ELIMINATED
THOSE EXCEPTIONS FOR PEOPLE, UM,
NOT IN THAT EXCLUDED POPULATION.
THE OTHER PIECE. ALL NOTE HERE
IS THAT THERE WAS RECENTLY SOME
CASE LAW THAT WAS CODIFIED THAT
ALLOWS FOR A SEPARATE ACTS OF
THEFT UNDER THE 950 THRESHOLD TO
BE AGGREGATED FOR THE PURPOSE OF
DETERMINING FOR OF ACHIEVING A
GRAND THEFT CONVICTION IF
THEY'RE MOTIVATED BY ONE
INTENTION, ONE GENERAL IMPULSE
AND ONE PLAN MOVING TO PAGE
SEVEN. WE HAVE BURGLARY AND
SHOPLIFTING. SO PRIOR TO
PROPOSITION, 47 SOME INSTANCES
OF, UH OF STEALING FROM A RETAIL
ESTABLISHMENT COULD BE CHARGED
AS BURGLARY, WHICH IS A WOBBLER,
REGARDLESS OF THE DOLLAR VALUE
INVOLVED PROPOSITION, 47 CREATED
A NEW CRIME CALLED SHOPLIFTING.
THAT INVOLVES ENTERING A
COMMERCIAL ESTABLISHMENT WHILE
IT IS OPEN AND WITH INTENT TO
COMMIT TO STEAL LESS THAN $950
OR LESS. UM AND THAT IS A
STRAIGHT MISDEMEANOR AGAIN,
EXCEPT FOR THE EXCLUDED
POPULATION AND PROSECUTORS PROP
47 SPECIFIES THAT PROSECUTORS
MUST CHARGE ACTIVITIES THAT MEET
THIS DESCRIPTION AS SHOPLIFTING,
SO IN THAT SENSE IT CONSTRAINED
THEIR DISCRETION AROUND
CHARGING. MOVING TO PAGE EIGHT.
WE HAVE A FEW MORE CRIMES THAT
CAN AFFECT RETAIL ESTABLISHMENTS
RECEIVING STOLEN PROPERTY, WHICH
PROPERTY SEVEN ESTABLISHED AT
$950 THRESHOLD THERE BETWEEN
MISDEMEANORS AND WARBLERS,
ORGANIZED RETAIL THEFT, WHICH
WAS CREATED IN 2018 AND ALLOWS
FOR PEOPLE ESSENTIALLY CASES
WHERE PEOPLE ARE WORKING
TOGETHER TO STEAL LESS THAN $950
WORTH OF MERCHANDISE TO BE. AH
IN SOME CASES CHARGED AS A
FELONY. UM AND THEN WE HAVE
ROBBERY, WHICH INVOLVES TAKING
SOMETHING BY FORCE OR FEAR. UM
TURNING TO PAGE NINE. THERE'S A
BRIEF OVERVIEW HERE OF THE
CALIFORNIA CONTROL OF PROFITS
ORGANIZED CRIME ACT, WHICH
ESSENTIALLY ALLOWS PROSECUTORS
TO SEIZE ASSETS THAT HAVE BEEN
ACCUMULATED THROUGH CRIMINAL
PROFITEERING ACTIVITY. AND
FINALLY, ON PAGE 10. THERE IS A
CHART THAT SHOWS EXAMPLES OF
DOLLAR VALUE THRESHOLDS FOR
FELONY THEFT IN OTHER STATES, AS
REPORTED BY THE PEW CHARITABLE
TRUSTS IN 2017. THANK YOU AND
I'M AVAILABLE FOR QUESTIONS AT
THE APPROPRIATE TIME. THANK YOU.
IT'S YOUR LIVE STREAM. GOOD
AFTERNOON AND THANK YOU FOR THE
OPPORTUNITY TO TESTIFY TODAY. MY
NAME IS MAGNUS LOBSTER. UM ON
THE POLICY DIRECTOR OF CRIMINAL
JUSTICE AND SENIOR FELLOW AT THE
PUBLIC POLICY INSTITUTE OF
CALIFORNIA. PP I SEE IS AN
INDEPENDENT AND NONPARTISAN
POLICY RESEARCH ORGANIZATION AND
DOES NOT TAKE POSITIONS ON
LEGISLATION. MY COMMENTS TODAY
DRAWN PPC EXTENSIVE RESEARCH ON
CRIME TRENDS IN CALIFORNIA,
INCLUDING THOSE AND RETAIL THEFT
AND ROBBERIES, AND THEY'RE BASED
ON DATA FROM THE CALIFORNIA
DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE. THESE
DATA CAN INFORM OUR POLICY
DISCUSSIONS ON THE CHALLENGES
RETAILERS FACE. THE CRIME DATA
SHOWED THAT RECENT TRENDS IN
RETAIL THEFT AND ROBBERY ROBBERY
VARY ACROSS THE STATE, AS WELL
AS BY TYPE OF OFFENSE. THE DATA
INDICATED RISING SHOPLIFTING,
ESPECIALLY IN THE BAY AREA, AND
A BROADER RATING. COMMERCIAL
BURGLARY AMONG URBAN COUNTIES.
THESE PATTERNS POSSIBLY
CONTRIBUTE TO DIFFERENCES IN HOW
RETAILERS AND RESIDENTS
PERCEIVED THE PROBLEM OF RETAIL
THEFT AND ROBBERIES. TO BETTER
UNDERSTAND THESE CHALLENGE THAT
CHALLENGES IT'S IMPORTANT. NOT
TO LIMIT ANALYSIS TO
SHOPLIFTING, A SUBCATEGORY OF
LARCENY. THIS IS ESPECIALLY TRUE
FOR CALIFORNIA, WHERE THE PENAL
CODE LIMITS SHOPLIFTING TO THEFT
BELOW $950 MISDEMEANORS. WE JUST
HEARD HIGHER VALUE. RETAIL THEFT
IS CAPTURED AS COMMERCIAL
BURGLARY INTO DATA AND CAN BE
CHARGED AS EITHER MISDEMEANOR OR
FELT. ROBBERIES INCIDENTS OF
THEFTS IN WHICH FORCES
THREATENED AND OR USED OR MORE
SERIOUS OFFENSES. THOSE
TARGETING COMMERCIAL
ESTABLISHMENTS, INCLUDING THE
APARTMENT, GROCERY AND
CONVENIENCE STORES ARE
SUBCATEGORY OF ROBBERY THAT CAN
BE IDENTIFIED IN THE DATA. AS
WITH ANY DATA, VERY IMPORTANT
LIMITATIONS FIRST, THE DATA
CURRENTLY AVAILABLE FOR THE
ENTIRE STATE, DO NOT EXTEND
BEYOND DECEMBER OF 2022. SECOND
THE DATA ARE LIMITED TO
INCIDENTS REPORTED TO LAW
ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES. RETAIL
THEFT IS LIKELY UNDER REPORTED
AND ESPECIALLY LOW VALUE THEFT,
AND THIS MAY ALSO CHANGED OVER
TIME. UM. ALSO AGENCIES MAY VARY
IN HOW THEY REPORT AND
CATEGORIZING OFFENSE. LASTLY AND
IMPORTANTLY, THE DATA DO NOT
ALLOW SPECIFIC IDENTIFICATION OF
SO CALLED SMASH AND GRAB
INCIDENTS. OR RETAIL THEFT THAT
IS ORGANIZED. SO WHAT DO THE
DATA TELL US? UM SO BEGINNING
WITH A STATEWIDE OVERVIEW, SO I
PROVIDED A HANDOUT. SO ON PAGE
THREE, THERE'S A FIGURE THAT
WILL START TO EXPLAIN THESE
FIGURES HERE NOW AND WHAT WE SEE
IN THOSE AND STARTING WITH PAGE
THREE OF THIS HANDOUT. WE SEE
THAT DESPITE A 29% JUMP IN 2022
FROM 2019, SHOPLIFTING REMAINS
BELOW PRE PANDEMIC LEVELS BY
ABOUT 8. HOWEVER BOTH COMMERCIAL
BURGLARY AND ROBBERY HAVE BEEN
TAKING UP IN RECENT YEARS, AND
THEY'RE UP 16 AND 13%
RESPECTIVELY IN 2022 COMPARED TO
2019. IMPORTANTLY THE DATA SHOWS
THAT RECENT TRENDS IN RETAIL
THEFT AND COMMERCIAL ROBBERY
VARIES WIDELY ACROSS THE STATE,
SO TURNING TO PAGE FOUR STARTING
WITH SHOPLIFTING. WE SEE THAT IN
THE BAY AREA, WE HAVE THE
HIGHEST REPORTED RATES AS WELL
AS THE BIGGEST REASON JUMPS. OF
THE 15 LARGEST COUNTIES BY
POPULATION. SAN MATEO AND SAN
FRANCISCO HAD THE HIGHEST RATES
IN 2022. AND RATES IN THESE
COUNTIES INCREASED BY 53% IN 24%
RESPECTIVELY, COMPARED TO 2019.
HOWEVER WE ALSO SEE IN THE DATA
THAT IN FIVE OF THE LARGEST
COUNTIES, RATES FELL BY AT LEAST
20% OVER THE SAME PERIOD.
MOREOVER REPORTED SHOPLIFTING
DOES NOT APPEAR TO HAVE
INCREASED IN THE STATES. SMALLER
COUNTIES COMMERCIAL BURGLARIES.
ON THE OTHER HAND, SO THIS IS
NOW ON PAGE FIVE. THEY INCREASED
ACROSS THE STATE. THE DATA SHOW
THAT COMMERCIAL BURGLARY ROSE IN
ALL FIVE OF THE BAY AREA'S
COUNTIES ARE AMONG THE STATE'S
LARGEST VARYING FROM A 9%
INCREASE IN SAN MATEO TO 65% IN
ALAMEDA. COMMERCIAL BURGLARIES
ALSO JUMPED IN COASTAL SOUTHERN
CALIFORNIA. RISING 29% IN L, A.
AND 54% IN ORANGE COUNTY AS WE'D
SHOPLIFTING, COMMERCIAL BURGLARY
FELL IN SMALLER AND URBAN
COUNTIES. TURNING TO ROBBERIES
OF COMMERCIAL ESTABLISHMENT PAGE
SIX. WE SEE THAT THEY WERE UP IN
NINE OF THE 15 LARGEST COUNTIES
IN 2022 COMPARED TO 2019. AFTER
RISING 13% OVER THIS PERIOD, THE
STATE'S LARGEST COUNTY L. A HAD
THE HIGHEST COMMERCIAL ROBBERY
RATE IN 2022. BUT THE BIGGEST
INCREASES AMONG LARGE COUNTIES
WHERE 51% JUMP IN FRESH SNOW AND
AT 29, RICE AND SACRAMENTO.
COMMERCIAL ROBBERIES ALSO
APPEARED TO BE ON THE UPTICK IN
SMALLER COUNTIES IN RECENT
YEARS. INSIGHTS ON ON WHAT 2023
DATA MIGHT LOOK LIKE MAYBE
GLEANED FROM EXAMINING MONTHLY
2021 22 CRIME NUMBERS, AND NOW
WE'RE TURNING TO PAGE SEVEN AND
EIGHT. AND HERE, I'M GOING TO
FOCUS ON L. A AND SAN FRANCISCO
COUNTIES, AS THEY IN PARTICULAR
HAVE RECEIVED ATTENTION FOR
RISING RETAIL THEFT AND
ROBBERIES. THE MONTHLY CRIME
NUMBERS SHOW THAT SAN
FRANCISCO'S INCREASING
SHOPLIFTING IS DRIVEN BY A JUMP
FROM ROUGHLY THE MID 2021 TO MID
2022 AND THAT BY THE SECOND HALF
OF 2022, THEY WERE ROUGHLY WHERE
THEY WERE BEFORE THE PANDEMIC
STARTED. SHOPLIFTING IN ALLAH,
HOWEVER, HAS CLIMBED STEADILY
SINCE MID 2021 AND BY LATE 2022.
IT WAS 10 TO 15% ABOVE PRE
PANDEMIC LEVELS. LARGE URBAN
COUNTIES SUCH AS SACRAMENTO, SAN
MATEO AND RIVERSIDE. ALSO SHOW
THIS UPWARD TRANSITION
SHOPLIFTING. VERY COMMERCIAL
BURGLARIES AND ROBBERIES IN BOTH
L A AND SAN SAN FRANCISCO STATE
RELATIVELY FLAT THROUGH 2022
ABOVE THEIR PRE PANDEMIC LEVELS,
BUT NO INDICATION OF FURTHER
INCREASES. ALRIGHT SO THESE
TRENDS UNIQUE TO CALIFORNIA. SO
NOW I'M TURNING TO PAGE NINE.
THE AVAILABLE DATA IS LIMITED TO
CRIME DATA PROVIDED BY THE
COUNCIL AND CRIMINAL JUSTICE,
AND IT'S RESTRICTED TO
SHOPLIFTING ONLY FOR THE 28 FOR
24 LARGE SELECT CITIES AROUND
THE COUNTRY. ASKING CALIFORNIA
CHANGES VERY WIDELY ACROSS
CITIES RANGING FROM AN INCREASE
OF 64% IN NEW YORK CITY. BETWEEN
THE FIRST HALF OF 2019 AND THE
FIRST HALF OF 2023 TO DROP OF
78% IN ST PETERSBURG. OVERALL
FOR ALL 24 CITIES REPORTED
SHOPLIFTING IS UP BY 16% BUT IF
NEW YORK IS EXCLUDED,
SHOPLIFTING IS DOWN BY 7% WHICH
IS IN LINE WITH CALIFORNIA'S
NUMBERS. SO TO CONCLUDE OVERALL
CRIME DATA INDICATE THAT
RETAILERS HAVE INCREASINGLY BEEN
THE TARGET OF CRIME IN PARTS OF
CALIFORNIA. REPORTED SHOPLIFTING
INCIDENTS ROSE IN THE BAY AREA
AND SHOPLIFTING IS TRENDING UP
IN L, A AND SOME OTHER URBAN
COUNTIES. COMMERCIAL BURGLARY
AND ROBBERY INCREASES IN RECENT
YEARS ARE MORE WIDESPREAD.
BETWEEN 2019 AND 2022.
COMMERCIAL BURGLARY WAS UP IN 21
OF CALIFORNIA'S 58 COUNTIES,
MOSTLY LARGE URBAN COUNTIES AND
COMMERCIAL ROBBERIES ROSE IN 25
COUNTIES TOGETHER, THESE MORE
SERIOUS CRIMES ARE IMPACTING THE
COUNTIES WHERE THE MAJORITY OF
CALIFORNIANS SLIP. YES. THANK
YOU FOR THIS OPPORTUNITY. THANK
YOU. DON'T WE HAVE ABOUT 30
MINUTES FOR QUESTIONS AND
ANSWERS FROM THE MEMBERS OF THE
COMMITTEE IF EVERYONE COULD PUT
THEIR, UM, MICROPHONES DOWN
UNLESS YOU'D LIKE TO ASK A
QUESTION, I'LL CALL ON PEOPLE,
UM, IN HIS FAIRWAY AS I CAN.
PLEASE TRY TO LIMIT YOUR
QUESTIONS SO THAT THEY'RE SHORT
AND MAKE THE ANSWERS AS SHORT AS
POSSIBLE SO THAT EVERYONE HAS AN
OPPORTUNITY TO ASK WHATEVER
QUESTIONS THEY HAVE ANYONE LIKE
TO ASK A QUESTION? I SEE
ASSEMBLYMEMBER'S COLONIES. THANK
YOU, MR CHAIR. MISS O'NEIL, JUST
REAL QUICK. YOU TALKED ABOUT THE
ANNUAL SAVINGS THAT PROP 47 HAD
IT WAS TO DO ANNUAL SAVINGS FOR
OUR PRISONERS. DO YOU GUYS HAVE
A NUMBER? OVER THE ANNUAL
SAVINGS IS YES. UM SO THE ANNUAL
SAVINGS THAT SAVINGS ESTIMATE
FOR 2022 23 WAS ABOUT 113
MILLION AND THEN THAT AMOUNT IS
WHAT IS APPROPRIATED THE
SUBSEQUENT FISCAL YEAR, SO 2324
OKAY? THANK YOU. AND ALSO, YOU
KNOW, JUST TO MAKE A COMMENT YOU
WERE TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE BEING
ARRESTED ON RETAIL THEFT. EXCUSE
ME, USUALLY BEING CITED UNLESS
THEY WERE DRUNK INTOXICATED. AND
THEN NEEDED TO BE ARRESTED FOR
THAT, AND THEN WE'RE, UM THEN
SEEN ARRANGEMENT. YOU GUYS SHOW
THAT FOR THEM GOING TO
ARRAIGNMENT? DO YOU GUYS SEE
THEM BEING CITED AND RELEASED
ONCE THEY'RE SOBERED UP? UM I'M
JUST REFERRING TO THE, UM
STATUTORY BIG, UM, EXEMPTIONS. I
THINK IT'S 8 53.6 I PERHAPS, YOU
KNOW, UM, THAT SPECIFIES WHEN
PEOPLE ARRESTED FOR MISDEMEANORS
CAN BE BOOKED ON A CUSTODIAL
ARREST. I'M NOT SURE I THINK IN
PRACTICE. PERHAPS YOU WOULD HAVE
A BETTER JUST GONNA IN PRACTICE,
USUALLY BECAUSE OF POPULATIONS
AND STUFF. NORMALLY, THEY GET
CITED AS SOON AS THEY GET
SOBERED UP. SO I PROBABLY CHOSE
A BAD EXAMPLE. APOLOGIES FOR NO
YOU'RE GETTING GOING WITH. I
JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE
EVERYBODY KNEW WHAT NORMALLY
WOULD HAPPEN. THANK YOU. AND UH
HUH. MR LOBSTER. UM YOU SAID
MOST LIKELY UNDER REPORTED ON
SOME OF YOUR STATS THAT YOU GAVE
, UH DO YOU HAVE A REASON WHY
THEY'RE BEING UNDER REPORTED NO,
WE DON'T. WE DON'T KNOW THAT. TO
WHAT EXTENT I THINK IT'S WIDELY
BELIEVED, AND WE DON'T KNOW THE
EXTENT TO WHICH IT MAY BE UNDER
REPORTED BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE
INFORMATION ON ALL ACTUAL
INCIDENTS OF RETAIL THEFT, SO
THAT'S A CHALLENGE IN TRYING TO
UNDERSTAND THIS ISSUE AND
PROBLEM. AND DO YOU THINK MAYBE
THAT'S ALSO ON ON SOME OF THE
STATS THAT YOU GUYS COLLECTED?
MAYBE WHY SOME OF THEM DID MAYBE
DROP DOWN OR OR FURTHER DOWN
BECAUSE THEY WEREN'T REPORTED IS
THAT MAY BE A FACTOR IN THAT AS
WELL. IT'S IMPOSSIBLE
CONTRIBUTING FACTOR TO CHANGES
IN IN THE REPORTED NUMBERS, OKAY
, AND JUST ONE LAST THING, UH,
THE ROBBERY RATES YOU SAID DID
INCREASE, RIGHT? AND I'M I'M
JUST THINKING OUTSIDE. MY HEAD
RIGHT NOW. THINKING OUT LOUD.
I'M THINKING THAT'S BECAUSE
ROBBERIES THEY DON'T UNDER
REPORT. THOSE THOSE ARE
SOMETHING THAT PEOPLE DO WANT TO
REPORT. SO I'M THINKING THAT'S
MAYBE WHY IT INCREASED. I THINK
THAT YOU'RE CORRECT THAT IT IS
MORE SERIOUS OFFENSE AND FOR
MORE SERIOUS OFFENSES, WE'RE
LIKELY TO SEE MORE COMPLETE
REPORTING. IT'S VERY LIKELY THAT
YOU KNOW THE VICTIM OF THIS
PARTICULAR TARGET TYPE OF CRIME
WOULD REPORT IT AND SEEK
ASSISTANCE FROM LAW ENFORCEMENT.
SO YES, I DO BELIEVE THAT IT'S
MORE COMPLETE REPORTING OF THAT
MORE SERIOUS TYPE OF CRIME. YES,
AND I CONCUR. THANK YOU GUYS,
BOTH. OKAY LIKE TO RECOGNIZE
ASSEMBLYMEMBER'S SZABO AND THEN
MR FONG AND THEN MISS BONTA.
THANK YOU SO MUCH. IT'S VERY
HELPFUL TO GET A HANDLE. AND I'M
SORRY IF I MISSED THAT YOU
EXPLAIN THIS, BUT THE DIFFERENCE
BETWEEN SHOPLIFTING AND
COMMERCIAL BURGLARY AND
COMMERCIAL ROBBERY COULD YOU
DEFINE THOSE AGAIN? RIGHT SO
WERE YOU SEEING REPORTED CRIME
NUMBERS, AND SO WE HAVE CERTAIN
WAYS OF TRYING TO CREATE A MORE
COMPLETE PICTURE OF RETAIL THEFT
AND RETAIL ROBBERIES SO WE CAN
GO AND WE CAN HERE IN CALIFORNIA
. WE'RE WE'RE FORTUNATE ENOUGH
THAT CALIFORNIA DEPARTMENT OF
JUSTICE PROVIDES STATE AND THAT
CAN BE DISAGGREGATED FOR THE
VARIOUS CATEGORY. SO WHEN WE
LOOK AT LARCENY, WE CAN ACTUALLY
IDENTIFY THOSE INCIDENTS THAT
WERE REPORTED AS SHOPLIFTING.
AND SHOPLIFTING IN CALIFORNIA'S
WE HEARD IS A MISDEMEANOR, SO HE
WOULD IF WE SIMPLY LIMITED TO
SHOPLIFTING AND SHOPLIFTING IS
UNDER $950 DEFINING IT. OKAY
THAT IS, THAT'S HOW IT'S HOW
IT'S DEFINED ACCORDING TO OUR
PINOT CODE, OKAY, SO IT'S LIKELY
THEN THAT FOR THOSE INCIDENTS OF
RETAIL THEFT THAT WE'RE ABOVE
$950, THEY WILL NOT BE REPORTED
AS SHOPLIFTING. BUT WE CAN GO TO
THE BURGLARY CATEGORY AS WELL
BECAUSE IT SEPARATES OUT
RESIDENTIAL BURGLARY IN
COMMERCIAL BURGLARY. THIS THEM
WOULD BE, UH, BE CAPTURED IN THE
COMMERCIAL BURGLARY. UH PART OF
THE CRIME DATA, SO THOSE WILL BE
THE HIGHER VALUE RETAIL THEFT
AND THEN ROBERT E WOULD BE WOULD
ADD ON WITH FORCE. THAT'S NOW WE
GO TO THE ROBBERY CATEGORY AMONG
VIOLENT CRIME, AND WITHIN THAT
ROBBERIES, WE CAN IDENTIFY THOSE
WHERE COMMERCIAL ESTABLISHMENTS
WERE TARGETED FOR THAT ROBBERY
AS WELL. SO THAT'S HOW WE
GENERATE A MORE COMPLETE PICTURE
OF THESE KINDS OF CHALLENGES.
OKAY, THANK YOU, UM AND. YOU
KNOW, ONE OF THE THINGS I SWEAR
THAT PEOPLE IN MY DISTRICT. THE
ONE BILL, THEY KNOW THE NUMBER
OF HIS PROP 47 OR LAW. UM AND AH
, BUT I FIND THAT THERE'S A LOT
OF MISINFORMATION AROUND THIS.
UM AND THE NARRATIVE IN THE
COMMUNITY AND, UM, ONE OF THE
THINGS THAT I HEAR A LOT IS THAT
YOU KNOW, UNDER $950. YOU JUST
CAN'T DO ANYTHING. UM AND IN
FACT, YOU CAN BE CHARGED WITH A
MISDEMEANOR. CORRECT ME. IF I'M
WRONG, AND PLEASE JUMP IN. YOU
CAN BE CHARGED WITH A
MISDEMEANOR, WHICH CAN CARRY UP
TO SIX MONTHS OF JAIL TIME.
CORRECT AND NOW WITH THE NEW,
MORE RECENT LAW, IT CAN BE ALSO
AGGREGATED SO THERE CAN BE SIX
MONTHS FOR EACH INCIDENT UNDER
$950. IS THAT HOW IT WORKS? CAN
YOU EXPLAIN. SURE. SO UM, YOU'RE
CORRECT THAT, UH ONE MISDEMEANOR
FOR PETTY THEFT OR SHOPLIFTING
IS MAXIMUM SIX MONTHS IN JAIL.
UM PUNISHMENT. HOWEVER THERE'S A
COUPLE OF DIFFERENT THINGS THAT
CAN HAPPEN IF ONE PERSON LET'S
SAY IS COMMITTING MULTIPLE ACTS
OF THEFT THAT ARE THAT CAN BE
SHOWN TO BE ONE. PLAN THAN THE
LAW ALLOWS THE THOSE SEPARATE
ACTS OF THEFT TO BE AGGREGATED,
UM AND IN TERMS OF THEIR DOLLAR
VALUE TO ACHIEVE A SINGLE COUNTS
OF GRAND THEFT, WHICH IS A
WOBBLER, UM, IN TERMS OF WHETHER
OR HOW EASY THAT IS TO DO FROM A
LAW ENFORCEMENT OR PROSECUTION
PERSPECTIVE, LIKE THE WORKLOAD
THAT THAT REQUIRES. IS IT
ANOTHER QUESTION THAT I COULDN'T
SPEAK TO. BUT UM AND THEN IF
PEOPLE ARE WORKING WITH OTHERS,
UM Tð. STEEL LESSON $950 ON
MULTIPLE OCCASIONS THAT
ORGANIZED RETAIL THEFT LAW THAT
WAS CREATED IN 2018 COULD BE
USED TO ELEVATE SOME OF THOSE
TWO WARBLERS. UM AND THEN I
THINK YOU HAD MENTIONED MAYBE
MULTIPLE MISDEMEANOR CONVICTIONS
THAT POTENTIALLY COULD BE, UM,
PERHAPS THEY COULD BE SENTENCED
CONSECUTIVELY, SO UM, BUT AT THE
DISCRETION OF THE JUDGE, IF
SOMEONE HAD MULTIPLE SEPARATE,
UM SIX MONTHS. MISDEMEANOR
CONVICTIONS FOR SEPARATE
INCIDENCES OF THEFT, OKAY, AND
JUST JUST TO BE SUPER CRYSTAL
CLEAR, THOUGH THERE ARE ACTIONS
THAT CAN BE TAKEN REPERCUSSIONS
CHARGES JAIL TIME THAT CAN
HAPPEN UNDER $950 UNDER CURRENT
PROP 47 LAW. YES UP TO SIX
MONTHS IN JAIL OR POTENTIALLY IF
THESE OTHER CIRCUMSTANCES APPLY,
UM, A FELONY. OKAY. THANK YOU.
UM AND. THERE HAVE BEEN, UM
THERE'S ALSO BEEN RECENT REPORTS
ABOUT SOME REAL RETAILERS OR
NATIONAL ASSOCIATION,
OVERSTATING SOME OF THE NUMBERS
AROUND RETAIL THEFT. I DON'T
KNOW IF YOU'RE AWARE OF THAT, OR
CAN CAN SPEAK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT
THAT. I TOO HAVE HAVE HEARD
ABOUT THAT. READ A LITTLE BIT
ABOUT THAT. BUT I DON'T THINK
I'M I HAVE MUCH MORE KNOWLEDGE
BEYOND WHAT'S BEEN REPORTED IN
THE NEWS. OKAY. ARE YOU AWARE.
AWARE BUT NOT IN SUFFICIENT
DETAIL TO REALLY COMMENT ON IT
AND MEANINGFUL WAY. OKAY? UM
MAYBE I'LL COME BACK TO THAT. UM
AND LET ME JUST SEE IF I HAVE
ONE MORE QUESTION. UM AND I
ASSUME I KNOW YOU WERE TALKING
ABOUT PRE PANDEMIC A LOT. UM SO
YOU KNOW, THERE'S OBVIOUSLY A
HUGE DIP, ESPECIALLY IN
SHOPLIFTING DURING, UM THE
PANDEMIC WHEN PEOPLE WERE NOT
OUT IN STORE SHOPPING. UM AND SO
I ASSUME WE VERY CLEARLY CAN
KIND OF, UM POINT TO THAT, IN
TERMS OF WHERE THE BIG DIP IN
SHOPLIFTING IS DURING THOSE 2020
20 YEARS, CORRECT. OKAY THANK
YOU. THANK YOU. TRY TO KEEP OUR
QUESTIONS ABOUT 3 TO 4 MINUTES.
GENERALLY JUST SO EVERYONE CAN
GET IN, UM, I'D ACTUALLY BEFORE
SOMEBODY MEMBER FOLLOWING DO YOU
MIND IF I LET SEVERAL MEMBER
PETRIE-NORRIS UM, YOU HAVE A TWO
MINUTE OPENING STATEMENT. I
DON'T KNOW IF YOU WANT TO MAKE
SOME OPENING COMMENTS. AND THEN
WE'LL GET BACK TO THE QUESTIONS.
WELL THANK YOU, MR CHAIR.
APPRECIATE YOUR LEADERSHIP IN
CONVENING US ON THIS IMPORTANT
TOPIC LIKE ALL OF MY COLLEAGUES
HERE TODAY. THIS IS AN
ABSOLUTELY TOP OF MIND ISSUE
THAT WE HEAR ABOUT FROM
CONSTITUENTS ALMOST ON A DAILY
BASIS. I THINK THAT IN ALL PARTS
OF THE STATE, WE'VE SEEN RETAIL
THEFT SOARING. AND UM, IT IS.
IT'S TIME FOR US TO TAKE BACK.
OUR SHOPPING CENTERS ARE
DOWNTOWNS AND SMALL BUSINESSES.
FROM WHAT I BELIEVE IS CRIMINAL
ACTIVITY THAT IS INCREASINGLY
ORGANIZED AND INCREASINGLY
SYNDICATED AND INCREASINGLY
SOPHISTICATED, AND I THINK IT'S
AN IMPORTANT IS IMPORTANT FOR
ALL OF US TO REMEMBER THAT THIS
IS NOT JUST AH! SOMETHING THAT
IS IMPACTING OUR BUSINESSES. OUR
RETAILERS. THIS IS IMPACTING OUR
CONSTITUENTS. THEY ARE FEELING
THE BRUNT OF THIS IN EVERYTHING
FROM HIGHER COSTS THAT THEY'RE
PAYING AT THE CHECKOUT TO HAVING
TO FEEL UNSAFE IN PUBLIC SPACES
AND IN RETAIL CORRIDORS. UM IT'S
ALSO AND I'M GRATEFUL THAT WE'LL
BE HEARING PERSPECTIVES FROM
FROM SOME OF OUR RETAIL WORKERS.
WE ARE ALSO INCREASINGLY HEARING
FROM WORKERS WHO ARE ON THE
FRONT LINE OF THIS AND FOLKS
HAVE SHARED SOME REALLY HORRIFIC
STORIES AND TALKED ABOUT THEIR
EXPERIENCE OF GOING TO WORK IN
THE CONTEXT OF EXPERIENCING PTSD
. SO UM, I THINK IT'S REALLY
CLEAR TO ALL OF US THAT THIS IS
A MAJOR PROBLEM, NOT JUST IN
CALIFORNIA BUT ALL ACROSS THE
COUNTRY. I THINK WHAT IS LESS
CLEAR IS WHAT ARE THE DRIVERS OF
THE SPIKES IN CRIME THAT WE HAVE
SEEN. AND UH, WHAT CAN WE DO TO
MITIGATE THAT? SO UM, I AM
REALLY LOOKING FORWARD AS PART
OF THIS SELECT COMMITTEE TO
DIVING INTO THOSE QUESTIONS AND
UNDERSTANDING. UM WHERE IS THIS?
A CALIFORNIA ISSUE. AND WHERE IS
THIS A NATIONWIDE ISSUE? AND UM,
WHERE CAN WE HAVE POLICY
INTERVENTIONS THAT CAN START TO
SHIFT THE BALANCE OF THAT? UM SO
I WILL GO AHEAD AND TURN IT BACK
TO THE CHAIR. I HAVE A COUPLE OF
QUESTIONS FOR OUR PANELISTS. BUT
WHEN IT LET OUR COLLEAGUES GO
FIRST, BUT THANK YOU AGAIN TO,
UM MR CHAIR AND TO ALL OF OUR
COLLEAGUES WHO ARE JOINING US
THE WEEK BEFORE BEFORE WE BREAK
FOR HOLIDAYS, AND I THINK THAT'S
JUST A TESTAMENT TO HOW REALLY
CRITICAL THIS TOPIC IS FOR ALL
OF THE RESIDENTS THAT WE
REPRESENT. THANK YOU WOULD LIKE
TO RECOGNIZE MR FONG, IF WE CAN
TRY TO LIMIT OUR QUESTIONS AND
ANSWERS ABOUT FOUR MINUTES
APIECE SO WE CAN GET THROUGH TO
EVERYONE. I'D APPRECIATE THAT
HERE. THANK YOU, MR CHAIR. UH,
FIRST QUESTION. I THINK TWO PP.
I SEE IS, UM, CERTAINLY YOU'RE
INDICATING SOME TRENDS, ALTHOUGH
I THINK YOU'VE HIGHLIGHTED SOME
TENSION WITHIN THE DATA. THE
CAVEATS THAT YOU HIGHLIGHTED ARE
VERY IMPORTANT. CAVEATS HOW HOW
DO WE AS LEGISLATORS AND AS THE
PUBLIC HOW HOW DO WE ADDRESS THE
UNDER REPORTING? AND I KNOW YOU
INDICATED TO, UM UH, AS TO
ASSUME MEMBERSHIP. IVO JUST KIND
OF GOING THROUGH THE CATEGORIES,
BUT I MEAN, EVEN WITHIN THOSE
CATEGORIES THERE COULD BE UNDER
REPORTING AS WELL. IS THERE
ADDITIONAL WAYS OR NEW
ADDITIONAL DATA THAT THAT WE
COULD COLLECT, YOU KNOW, DO DO
THE RETAILERS OR THROUGH THE
AMOUNT AGGREGATING THE AMOUNT OF
LOSS, UH, THAT THAT KIND OF
DEALS WITH ATTENTION. YEAH, I
THINK SO. I THINK, BUT I THINK
WE WOULD, UM LOOK TO RETAILERS
TO PROVIDE THAT KIND OF
INFORMATION RIGHT SO WE CAN GET
A SENSE OF WHAT THE ACTUAL
NUMBERS ARE OF INCIDENTS OF
RETAIL THEFT. IN PARTICULAR, AS
I SAID, I THINK THE ROBBERIES
ARE PROBABLY, UH, WE'RE DEALING
WITH PRETTY COMPLETE REPORTING
FOR THOSE TYPES OF INCIDENTS.
BUT UM, I THINK THAT IF WE HAD
THAT INFORMATION OF THE ACTUAL
NUMBER OF INCIDENTS DETAILED
INFORMATION ON THE LOCATION AS
WELL AS WELL AS WHAT THE
RESPONSES WERE TO THOSE CALLS,
FOR EXAMPLE TO LAW ENFORCEMENT
THAT WILL BE VERY HELPFUL FOR
BETTER UNDERSTANDING THIS ISSUE,
AND IT WOULD ALSO PROVIDE A
BASELINE TO UNDERSTAND THE
DEGREE. TO WHICH UNDER REPORTING
IS A PROBLEM, AND IT ALSO WOULD
ALLOW US TO UNDERSTAND IF IT'S
SENSITIVE TO CHANGES OVER TIME
AS WELL. SORRY TO INTERRUPT, BUT
IN TERMS OF YOUR RESEARCH, HAVE
YOU HAVE YOU TAKEN AN ATTEMPT TO
KIND OF TRY TO MEASURE THE UNDER
REPORTING? WE DON'T HAVE YES,
SINCE WE DON'T HAVE INFORMATION,
SPECIFICALLY UNDER NUMBER
DETAILED INFORMATION ON THE
NUMBER OF SHOPLIFTING INCIDENTS
THAT ARE TAKING PLACE IN A
PARTICULAR LOCATION OVER A
PARTICULAR POINT IN TIME. WE
HAVE NO WAY OF DETERMINING
EXACTLY THE DEGREE TO WHICH
UNDER REPORTING IS A PROBLEM,
OKAY? AND THEN IN TERMS OF TO
THE L A. OH, THERE'S A WITHIN
THE LEGISLATORS. THERE'S ALWAYS
BEEN THIS UM, DEBATE ON ON
WHETHER CHANGE LEGISLATIVE
CHANGES HAVE TO GO BACK TO THE
VOTERS OR WHETHER, UM IT CAN BE
DONE THROUGH THE LEGISLATIVE
PROCESS AND NOT, UM HAVE TO KIND
OF A MAN PROP 47 IN YOUR AND
YOUR RESEARCH AND ANALYSIS LIKE
WHAT LEGISLATIVE CHANGES HAVE TO
GO BACK TO THE VOTERS AND WHAT
CAN BE DONE UNDER KIND OF
THROUGH THE LEGISLATIVE PROCESS
AND NOT AND REBUILT WITHIN THE
LEGISLATURE. SO AS A GENERAL
CAVEAT. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL
WOULD BE THE BEST AUTHORITY ON
THIS, BUT I THINK, GENERALLY
SPEAKING, THE MEASURE DOESN'T
ALLOW AMENDMENTS. UH THAT WOULD
NOT FURTHER ITS PURPOSES. SO UM,
OF COURSE THAT COULD END UP
BEING INTERPRETED BY A COURT.
BUT UM, IT SEEMS LIKE, FOR
EXAMPLE, WITH THE LEGISLATURE
ORGANIZED RETAIL THEFT BILL THAT
WAS A CASE WHERE ACTS THAT
PREVIOUSLY MIGHT HAVE BEEN
HANDLE THIS SHOPLIFTING,
PERHAPS, OR COULD BE CONSIDERED
SHOPLIFTING OR BEING SORT OF
CARVED OUT A LITTLE BIT BECAUSE
IN FACT, THEY'RE ACTUALLY MORE
CONSPIRACY, LIKE OR UM, IN FACT,
SEPARATE FROM SHOPLIFTING. I'M
MORE SORT OF HIGHER ORDER.
CRIME, SAID THAT LETS YOU KNOW
IT'S POSSIBLE THAT THERE COULD
BE SOME CASES WHERE HE COULD
CLARIFY INSTANCES OR CHANGE
PROCESSES THAT THAT, UM, THAT
AFFECT HOW PEOPLE MOVE THROUGH
THE SYSTEM. UM, UH, ALSO COULD
CHANGE SORT OF LAWS THAT AFFECT
HOW THOSE CASES ARE HANDLED IN
GENERAL, LIKE HOW HOW
MISDEMEANOR PROBATION WORKS, FOR
EXAMPLE, UM, BUT GENERALLY IT
HAS IT. THE LEGISLATURE WOULD
HAVE TO GO BACK TO THE VOTERS
TO, UM TO DO ANYTHING THAT
DOESN'T FURTHER THE INTENT OR
THE PURPOSES OF THE MEASURE. I
THINK I FOLLOW YOU. I THINK IT'S
CERTAINLY I THINK I THINK THAT I
THINK THAT THAT IT'S ONE OF
THOSE. UM UH, ISSUES. I THINK
THAT WITHIN THE LEGISLATURE, I
THINK WE ARE TRYING TO, UM,
TRYING TO FIGURE THAT OUT. MAYBE
TWO. MAYBE SUGGESTIONS OF THE
CHAIR. MAYBE WE HAVE PLEDGED
COUNCIL BEING ONE OF THE PANEL
IN THE FUTURE. MAYBE WE CAN KIND
OF FLESH OUT THAT THANK YOU VERY
MUCH. THANK YOU LIKE TO
RECOGNIZE SOMEBODY MEMBER
BUNTER. THANK YOU, MR CHAIR. I
JUST I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE
KIND OF HAVE A FOUNDATIONAL
UNDERSTANDING AROUND THE SCOPE
OF THE ISSUE. UH SOME QUESTIONS
WERE RELATED TO SOME NEWS
REPORTS ABOUT DIFFERENT
INFORMATION THAT WAS PROVIDED.
UH SPECIFICALLY, THE NEW YORK
TIMES, UH, PROVIDED INFORMATION.
AN ARTICLE BY MR MEDINA ENTITLED
RETAIL GROUPS RETRACT. STARTING
CLAIM ABOUT ORGANIZED
SHOPLIFTING, UM, IN WHICH THERE
IS A STATEMENT THAT ESSENTIALLY
SAYS IN MOST MAJOR CITIES, UM
SHOPLIFTING INCIDENTS HAVE
FALLEN 7% SINCE 2019. SO JUST
ONE QUESTION AROUND YOU. YOU CAN
YOU AT LEAST SHARE THE
INFORMATION THAT I'M SURE YOU
WERE PRIVY TO REVIEWING THAT
SPOKE TO THE NATIONAL RETAIL
FEDERATION'S CLAIMS AND OVERLAY
THAT WITH THE DATA THAT YOU
PROVIDED WELL, THE DECREASE IS
7% OF SHOPLIFTING IS EXACTLY
THERE. THE DAY THAT I WAS
SHARING THESE COME FROM THE
COUNCIL AND CRIMINAL JUSTICE.
THEY LOOKED AT 24 SELECT CITIES
ACROSS THE COUNTRY THAT PROVIDE
MORE UPDATED CRIME DATA, SO THEY
GO TO THE ACTUAL SOURCES AND
DOWNLOAD IT AND ALLOWED THEM TO
LOOK AT INFORMATION THAT CARES
US THROUGH THE FIRST HALF OF
2023. UM AND WHAT THEY FOUND
THERE WAS THAT NEW YORK CITY WAS
THE ONE OF THE WHERE YOU SAW THE
BIGGEST INCREASE, AND THEY VIEW
THAT AS A POTENTIAL OUTLIER AND
SAID, WELL, IF WE EXCLUDE NEW
YORK CITY WITH NEW YORK CITY,
YOU HAVE AN INCREASE IN REPORTED
SHOPLIFTING BY 16. BUT IF YOU
EXCLUDE NEW YORK CITY, THERE'S A
DECREASE OF 7% SO IT'S SENSITIVE
TO WHETHER YOU INCLUDE THAT
CITY. I THINK THAT WHAT IS
CONSISTENT WITH THE DATA THAT
THEY'RE COLLECTING FROM A
VARIETY OF CITIES ACROSS THE
NATION IS THIS WIDE VARIATION IN
HOW RETAIL THEFT IS PLAYING OUT.
THERE ARE CERTAIN AREAS WE SEE
THE HERE IN CALIFORNIA IN THE
BAY AREA WHEN IT COMES TO LIMIT
OUR CONVERSATION TO SHOPLIFTING
BAY AREA IS AN AREA WHERE WE
HAVE SEEN THOSE INCREASES. BUT
AS I SAID, WE'VE ALSO SEEN A
NUMBER OF LARGE COUNTIES AS
WELL. WHERE THERE ARE DECREASES
AS AS WELL. SO THERE IS A WIDE
VARIATION HERE IN CALIFORNIA,
AND WE SEE IT IN THE COUNTRY AS
WELL REGARDING THEIR OTHER
NUMBERS THAT THE RETAIL
ASSOCIATION HAS REPORTED THAT
HAS RETRACTED. LET THE RETAIL
RETAILER SPEAK TO THAT AND WHAT
THE UNDERLYING REASONS BEHIND
THAT ARE. THANK YOU. AND JUST AS
A ANOTHER POINT OF MAKING SURE
THAT WE ARE GETTING A FULL
PICTURE OF ALL OF OUR DATA, UH,
IN EVEN IN P P I SIX REPORT IN
TERMS OF THE HIGHER INCIDENTS OF
SHOPLIFTING OR RETAIL THEFT OR
ROBBERY. HAVE YOU DONE ANY
OVERLAY OF THE INCREASING COST
OF LIVING THE INCREASE IN THE
LACK OF AFFORDABLE HOUSING THE
GENERAL INCREASE IN THE LEVEL OF
POVERTY ASSOCIATED WITH UH,
DURING THESE ASSOCIATED TIMES.
NO. WE HAVE NOT LOOKED AT THAT
YET. I THINK IT WOULD BE HELPFUL
FOR US AS A COMMITTEE TO MAKE
SURE THAT WHEN WE ARE LOOKING AT
ROBUST POLICIES WE ARE
CONSIDERING ALL OF THE POTENTIAL
FACTORS THAT MIGHT LEAD TO
INCREASE IN RETAIL THEFT AND
ROBBERY AS AS SOMETHING THAT WE
DO TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE
SERVING THE ENTIRETY OF THE
PUBLIC, AND MY LAST QUESTION IS
JUST, UM, I UNDERSTAND THE
TESTIMONY PROVIDED HERE, SOMEONE
WHO COMMITS MULTIPLE THEFTS.
THAT CRIMES IN A SHORT PERIOD OF
TIME ALREADY FACED SIGNIFICANT
JAIL TIME, EITHER FROM HAVING
MULTIPLE MISDEMEANOR SENTENCES
OF SIX MONTHS STACKED ON TOP OF
EACH OTHER OR FROM PROSECUTION.
AGGREGATING THE CHARGES INTO A
FELONY CHARGE IS THAT ACCURATE?
UH YES, MY UNDERSTANDING. IS
THAT LIKE YOU SAID, MISDEMEANORS
COULD BE IN TERMS OF FOR THE
PURPOSES OF SENTENCING CAN BE
RUN CONSECUTIVELY. UM. IF
THERE'S MULTIPLE MISDEMEANOR
CONVICTIONS OR MULTIPLE ACTS OF
THEFT CAN BE SUMMED IN DOLLAR
VALUE TO ACHIEVE A SINGLE GRAND
THEFT, UH, CONVICTION IF CERTAIN
CONDITIONS ARE MET. I CAN'T
SPEAK. SO THAT'S READING THE
LAW. WHAT IT SAYS I CAN'T SPEAK
TO, UM WHAT? HOW THAT WORKS IN
PRACTICE OR HOW MUCH WORKLOAD
FOR EXAMPLE, THAT MAY TAKE AND
WHAT WHAT? WHAT UM, WORKLOAD
THAT THEN TAKES AWAY FROM IN
TERMS OF HOW PROSECUTORS AND LAW
ENFORCEMENT ARE SPENDING THEIR
TIME. BUT YES, IN GENERAL. AND
THEN MY FOLLOW UP QUESTION ON
THAT IS DO WE ACTUALLY HAVE ANY
DATA AROUND IMPLEMENTATION
PRACTICES BY PROSECUTORS ARE NOT
CHARGING. OR ANY MEANS TO BE
ABLE TO COLLECT THAT DATA. SO WE
ACTUALLY HAVE A SENSE OF YOU
KNOW THE LAWS ON THE BOOKS.
THERE'S AN OPPORTUNITY TO DO IT
OTHER THAN GENERAL ANECDOTES
AROUND WORKLOAD ISSUES. DO WE
HAVE A SENSIBILITY AROUND WHAT
IS ACTUALLY HAPPENING IN
PRACTICE AROUND Y PROSECUTORS
ARE NOT PROSECUTING. AND
CHARGING SO I DON'T HAVE DATA AT
MY FINGERTIPS OR REALLY SPECIFIC
DATA IN MIND. HOWEVER I WILL
NOTE THAT AS YOU'RE AWARE OF THE
STATE PROVIDED 85 MILLION IN
FUNDING FOR THREE YEARS FOR
GRANTS TO LAW ENFORCEMENT AND 10
MILLION PER YEAR FOR THREE YEARS
TO FOR VERTICAL PROSECUTION, ALL
RELATED TO UM, THEFT, INCLUDING
ORGANIZED RETAIL THEFT AND THE
BUDGET BILL LANGUAGE ON THOSE
PROGRAMS DOES REQUIRE SOME DATA
REPORTING, UM BACK TO BE SCC AND
ALSO SOME REPORTING IN THE GRANT
APPLICATIONS THEMSELVES, SO IT'S
POSSIBLE THERE COULD BE SOME
DATA IN THERE OR SOME, UM,
INTERESTING IDEAS FOR IMPROVING
DATA COLLECTION THAT ARE BEING
TRIED THAT COULD BE LOOKED AT
AND JUST TO CLARIFY THAT GRANT
WAS DISPERSED. WHEN THAT WAS TOO
AH, THAT WAS JUST THAT WAS CYCLE
FIRST AUTHORIZED IN 2022 23. BUT
BE SEC JUST AWARDED IT THIS
FALL. UM BUT THERE IS, I BELIEVE
THAT THAT DATA WAS SOLICITED
THROUGH THE APPLICATION PROCESS
AND THAT THERE'S SOME ANNUAL
REPORTING REQUIREMENTS IN
ELEMENTS OF IT. SO NOT TO OVER
PROMISE DEPENDING ON THE
REPORTING. ON THE ACTUAL
IMPLEMENTATION OF THE GRANTS,
AND THEN I THINK FOR THE LAW
ENFORCEMENT GRANTS, THERE WAS A
REQUIREMENT THERE WERE IT WAS
SPECIFIED THAT B S C C WAS
SUPPOSED TO COLLECT DATA OR THAT
APPLICANTS WERE ENCOURAGED TO
SUBMIT DATA IN THEIR
APPLICATION. UM SO THERE MIGHT
BE SOMETHING THERE. COPY OF
QUESTIONS. SO ON THE L A. OH
SLIDES, ONE OF THE THINGS I
NOTED ON PAGE 10 WAS THAT
CALIFORNIA IS $950 FELONY LEVEL
LOOKS LIKE IT'S ACTUALLY TOWARDS
THE BOTTOM OF STATES WHERE WE'VE
GOT TEXAS SETTING A FELONY LEVEL
OF $2500. IS THERE ANYWHERE,
EITHER PANELISTS ANYWAY, THAT UM
, YOU THINK THAT WE MIGHT BE
ABLE TO GET OUR HANDLE ON
WHETHER THE FELONY LIMIT HAS ANY
HAS ANY RELATIONSHIP TO THE, UM
TO THE LEVELS OF RETAIL THEFT? I
MEAN, WE HEAR A LOT OF, UM A LOT
OF RESEARCH THAT SHOWS THAT IT'S
REALLY NOT THE AMOUNT OF, UM THE
PENALTY THE LENGTH OF
INCARCERATION, BUT REALLY MORE
AN ISSUE OF SORT OF CERTAINTY OF
BEING APPREHENDED, HAVING A
CERTAINTY OF A CONSEQUENCE. UM
AND SO ON, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF
THE FOCUS ON PROP 47 HAS BEEN
ABOUT THIS $950 LEVEL, HAVING
BEEN CHANGED FROM WHAT IT WAS
BEFORE. UM SO YOU KNOW, JUST
WONDERING IF YOU KNOW WHEN I
LOOK AT THE THIS DATA. I SEE
THAT CALIFORNIA IS NEAR THE
BOTTOM. IT LEADS ME TO THINK
THAT THIS IS MORE OF AN ISSUE
ABOUT ENFORCEMENT AT THE
MISDEMEANOR LEVEL THAN IT IS
ABOUT THE LEVEL OF THE, UM OF
THE FELONY LINES, SO I JUST
WANTED TO KNOW IF EITHER OF YOU
HAVE ANY COMMENTS ON THAT. I
DON'T THINK THERE IS A VERY
CLEAR PICTURE FROM FROM RESEARCH
ABOUT WHAT THE WHAT THE IMPACT
OF THE FELONY THRESHOLD MIGHT BE
, UM, SO I DON'T THINK THAT
THAT'S WE DON'T KNOW THAT
PARTICULARLY WELL, I DO THINK
THAT YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT IN
POINTING OUT THAT IT'S NOT THE
LENGTH OF THE SENTENCE THAT
TENDS TO HAVE AN IMPACT ON THE
LIKELIHOOD OF SOMEONE COMMITTING
ONE OF THESE CRIMES. IT'S THE
LIKELIHOOD OF BEING APPREHENDED
AND FACING CONSEQUENCES OF THAT
SO AH, BUT THERE HASN'T BEEN UM,
REALLY ANY RESEARCH TRYING TO
ASSESS HOW THAT LIKELIHOOD HAS
CHANGED HERE IN CALIFORNIA, FOR
EXAMPLE, AS A RESULT OF PROP 47,
SO I DON'T THINK THAT WE'RE IN A
PLACE AT THIS POINT IN TIME, BUT
WE CAN SAY EXACTLY WHAT THE
ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION IS. UM
YOU KNOW, WE'RE TOLD. I KEEP
HEARING OVER AND OVER AGAIN THAT
, UM SOME OF THE PROBLEM ARE
THESE ORGANIZED RINGS OF PEOPLE
REPEATEDLY GOING TO STORES AND,
YOU KNOW REALLY AND SORT OF LOOK
AT A ROUTE WHERE YOU SORT OF SEE
THE STORES HIT REPEATEDLY OVER A
PERIOD OF TIME. UM IS THERE ANY
DATA TO SUPPORT TO SUPPORT THAT?
I MEAN, DO WE HAVE ANY DATA?
THAT SORT OF SHOWS? WHAT THE
PROFILE OF THESE THESE ROBBERIES
AND THE SHOPLIFTING LOOKS LIKE
UNFORTUNATELY, WE DON'T THE
CURRENTLY AVAILABLE DATA DOESN'T
INCLUDE THAT KIND OF DETAILED
INFORMATION WHERE WE KNOW YOU
KNOW WHERE A REPORTED INCIDENT
WHERE THAT ACTUALLY TOOK PLACE.
AH SO THAT MEANS THAT WE CAN'T
REALLY DETERMINE WHETHER
PARTICULAR AREA PARTICULAR STORE
HAS BEEN TARGETED MULTIPLE TIMES
. SO CURRENTLY AVAILABLE DATA DO
NOT ALLOW US TO ANSWER THAT
QUESTION, EITHER. IT'S IF I MAY.
I WOULD. UM IT'S POSSIBLE THAT
CHP MIGHT HAVE SOME OF THAT DATA
IN TERMS OF CASES THAT THEY'VE
BEEN INVOLVED WITH. GIVEN THEIR,
UM, PART OF THESE ORGANIZED
RETAIL THEFT TASK FORCES AT THE
STATE HAS BEEN FUNDING. UM SO
THERE COULD BE SOME LIMITED DATA
THERE ALSO, THE CRIME OF
ORGANIZED RETAIL THEFT ITSELF.
UM IT'S POSSIBLE. YOU KNOW, YOU
COULD GET CONVICTION DATA FOR
THAT. BUT AS MISS BONTA NOTED,
WE THERE'S A LACK OF DATA IN
GENERAL ON THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE
SYSTEM IN TERMS OF HOW CASES ARE
PROCESSED, SO WE MAY KNOW HOW
THEY ENDED UP IN A CONVICTION,
BUT WE MAY NOT KNOW HOW THEY
WHERE THEY STARTED OUT OR
GEOGRAPHICALLY WHERE THEY
OCCURRED. EXACTLY ETCETERA, BUT
THERE ARE SOME ADDITIONAL PIECES
OF DATA THAT WE MAY BE ABLE TO.
TRIANGULATE FROM WHERE THAT AS
DATA BEGINS TO FLOW IN FROM
THESE EFFORTS THAT ARE UNDERWAY.
THANK YOU. UM I THINK THE MY
LAST QUESTION HAS TO DO WITH THE
ISSUE OF SHOPLIFTING GOING DOWN
IN CALIFORNIA. AND ACTUALLY, YOU
KNOW, MY SENSE IS SHOPLIFTING.
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE NATIONAL
NUMBERS. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A
LOT OF DIFFERENT THINGS BEING
MUSHED TOGETHER IN ONE CATEGORY,
SO SHOPLIFTING. THAT MADE
INCLUDE SHOPLIFTING GOING DOWN
IN SOME STATES, WHERE IT'S NOT
ACTUALLY SHOPLIFTING IN
CALIFORNIA, BECAUSE THE DATA IS
WHATEVER EACH STATE CONSIDERED
SHOPLIFTING. IS THAT THAT RIGHT?
SO DOES THAT MEAN WE SHOULD BE
FOCUSING ON REALLY WHAT THE DATA
IS IN CALIFORNIA? I DO THINK
THAT WE NEED TO BE CAREFUL. UH
BECAUSE IT'S NOT CLEAR HOW
THINGS ARE BEING REPORTED BY THE
VARIOUS AGENCIES AND WHAT'S
BEING CAPTURED WHEN WE DEFINE IT
AS SHOPLIFTING. WE DO KNOW THAT
WHEN WE DO THAT, IN CALIFORNIA,
WHERE LIKELY TO ONLY CAPTURE
THOSE RELATIVELY LOW VALUE
INCIDENTS OF RETAIL THEFT, THERE
ARE $950 OR BELOW. SO, YEAH, I
THINK THAT THERE ARE THERE ARE
DIFFICULTIES IN MAKING
COMPARISONS. YOU KNOW, UM UNLESS
YOU HAVE A MORE COMPLETE PICTURE
, AND I'M 40. UNFORTUNATELY WHEN
YOU'RE LOOKING AT THESE OTHER
CITIES, EVEN WHERE DATA WAS
COLLECTED BY THE COUNCIL OF
CRIMINAL JUSTICE, IT DOESN'T GO
BEYOND SHOPLIFTING. SO IT
DOESN'T LOOK AT YOU KNOW THE
BURGLARY CATEGORY, FOR EXAMPLE
ON COMMERCIAL BURGLARY AS WELL,
THEN THAT THAT COULD GENERATE A
MORE COMPLETE PICTURE AND
POTENTIALLY THEN MORE COMPARABLE
DATA ACROSS STATES AS WELL.
GREAT AND THEN MY LAST QUESTION,
AND THEN I'M GONNA ASK, UH, SOME
OF YOUR PATRINOS I KNOW HAS A
QUESTION OR TWO. THE $950. THE
SHOPLIFTING STATISTICS, WHICH
SHOW THAT IT MAY BE GOING DOWN
IN SOME PLACES, UM, HERE VARIOUS
THINGS ABOUT THAT ONE CONTENTION
IS THAT IT MIGHT BE GOING DOWN
BECAUSE SHOPLIFTING ISN'T BEING
REPORTED OR ISN'T BEING
PROSECUTED AND THEN OTHERS ARE
BASICALLY SAYING WELL, THE DATA
IS SHOWING THAT IT'S GOING DOWN
OVER TIME. UM AND SO I WAS
WONDERING IF YOU CAN. IF YOU
HAVE ANY CAN SHED ANY LIGHT ON
HOW WE CAN DETERMINE. WHAT IS
ACTUALLY HAPPENING? UM YEAH, I
THINK IT'S A REALLY GOOD
QUESTION, AND IT'S IMPORTANT
THAT WE GET THAT KIND OF
INFORMATION. I THINK WHEN YOU
START TO LOOK AT THE DATA WHEN
YOU SEE THESE VERY DIFFERENT
PATTERNS ACROSS, UH, YOU KNOW
THE COUNTY, SO THE CITIES ACROSS
THE STATE. WHAT IS TELLING US IS
THAT YOU JUST DO HAVE VERY
DIFFERENT PATTERNS. AND IF YOU
DO AGGREGATE THEM TOGETHER, YOU
MIGHT ACTUALLY NOT DETECT THOSE
THINGS. UM YOU ALSO HAVE TO LOOK
AT A VERY CLOSELY L A IS A VERY
GOOD EXAMPLE OF THAT IF WE LOOK
AT IT FOR SHOPLIFTING, FOR
EXAMPLE, IF YOU LOOK AT ONE OF
THOSE FIGURES WHEN I DO
COMPARISON BETWEEN 2019 AND
2022. AH IT IT'S SHOWING A
DECREASE IN REPORTED SHOPLIFTING
BETWEEN 2019 AND 2022 FOR L. A
BUT WHEN YOU START TO LOOK AT
THOSE MONTHLY CRIME NUMBERS THAT
ARE ALSO PROVIDED THE COMMITTEE
WITH WHAT YOU'RE SEEING IS
THERE'S A GRADUAL INCREASE IN
REPORTED SHOPLIFTING IN L A OVER
A YEAR AND A HALF LONG PERIOD
AND THAT BY THE END OF THAT
PERIOD, YOU'RE ACTUALLY SEEING
LEVELS THAT ARE HIGHER THAN THEY
WERE BEFORE THE PANDEMIC LEVEL.
SO YOU KNOW THE DATA ARE CAPABLE
, CAPABLE OF SHOWING SOME
INDICATION OF SOME INCREASES AS
WELL. WE SAW IT IN THE OUT IN
THE SAN FRANCISCO DATA, WE SEE
CLEAR EVIDENCE OF THE SUDDEN
INCREASES AROUND THE MID 2021
AND REPORTED SHOPLIFTING
INCIDENTS AND HIGHER LEVELS THAT
WERE SUSTAINED FOR A PERIOD OF
TIME AND THEN DECREASES AS WELL.
SO AH, YOU KNOW, I THINK ONE
OPPORTUNITY IS TO LOOK AT
SITUATIONS LIKE IN SAN FRANCISCO
AND I WAS HAPPY TO HEAR THAT YOU
WILL HAVE A HEARING THERE
BECAUSE I THINK THAT THERE ARE
POTENTIAL LESSONS TO BE LEARNED
FROM THAT SITUATION. WE SEE A
RELATIVELY SUDDEN INCREASE
NOTABLE INCREASE OVER A SHORT
PERIOD OF TIME TO SEE IF WE CAN
DETERMINE WHAT IS BEHIND THOSE
INCREASES. AND THEN IMPORTANTLY,
WE'RE ALSO SEEING A RELATIVELY
SUDDEN DECREASE IN REPORTED
SHOPLIFTING IN SAN FRANCISCO.
WHAT WERE THEIR RESPONSES AND
THE CHANGES THAT TOOK PLACE IN
SAN FRANCISCO THAT MIGHT HAVE
LED TO THOSE DECREASES AS WELL?
SO I THINK IT'S LOOKING AT IT
AND THOSE YOU KNOW INDIVIDUAL
JURISDICTIONS MIGHT PROVIDE US
WITH SOME IMPORTANT ANSWERS.
THAT WILL HELP US. UH, YOU KNOW,
BETTER ADDRESS THIS CHALLENGE.
WE'VE GOT ABOUT THREE MINUTES
LEFT FOR THE SEGMENT. I WANT TO
LET THE FAMILY MEMBER
PETRIE-NORRIS ASK HER QUESTIONS.
THANK YOU, MR CHAIR, AND I DO
THINK THAT AS WE DIVE INTO THIS
POLICY AREA, IT'S ABSOLUTELY
CRITICAL FOR US TO START WITH
THE FOUNDATIONAL UNDERSTANDING
AND A SHARED SET OF FACTS. SO
APPRECIATE BOTH OF YOU BEEN HERE
TO TRY TO HELP US ESTABLISH THAT
AND THEY'RE REALLY TWO PIECES OF
DATA THAT JUMPED OUT AT ME. AND
ONE WAS ACTUALLY WITH OUR CHAIR
DROVE HOME, WHICH I THINK WAS A
SURPRISE TO ME AND I IMAGINE
MANY OF US THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF
DISCUSSION AND DEBATE AROUND THE
PROP 47 THRESHOLD THAT WAS
DRIVING THIS, SO I THINK TO SEE
THAT CALIFORNIA IS $950
THRESHOLD IS ACTUALLY ONE OF THE
LOWEST IN THE COUNTRY IS REALLY
IMPORTANT. AND THEN SECOND, UH.
MR MAGNUSON, AM I SAYING THAT
RIGHT LOST DRUM? SORRY MR
LOBSTER, UM, TO, UH, ONE OF YOUR
FIRST SLIDES SHOWS THE RETAIL
THEFT AND ROBERT REWRITES OVER
RECENT YEARS, AND I THINK, THE
HEADLINE SAYS RATES OF RETAIL
THEFT AND ROBBERY HAVE RISEN IN
RECENT YEARS. BUT IF I'M READING
THIS CORRECTLY, AT LEAST FOR THE
TIME HORIZON ON THIS CHART LIKE
WE'RE LOOKING AT AN ALL TIME
HIGH. WHEN WE LOOK AT COMMERCIAL
BURGLARY AND COMMERCIAL ROBBERY
IS THAT ACCURATE. IT'S NOT AN
ALL TIME HIGH. WE CAN GO BACK TO
THE 19 NINETIES AND YOU'RE GOING
TO SEE DEFINITELY HIGHER RATES
IN THOSE PERIODS IN RECENT OF
THE LAST DECADE OR SO, YES, THEY
THEY ARE. DO YOU HAVE? DO YOU
HAVE ANY HYPOTHESES AROUND WHAT
IS DRIVING. THEY SORT OF HERE.
IT LOOKS LIKE WE'RE SEEING LIKE
A DECREASE. IN PETTY THEFT, A
DECREASE IN SHOPLIFTING AND THEN
THE COMMERCIAL SIDE OF THINGS
JUST CONTINUES TO GO UP ANY
HYPOTHESES AROUND. LIKE WHAT'S
GOING ON WITH THAT? YOU KNOW,
WE'RE LOOKING TO IT. WE'RE
LOOKING AT THE PANDEMIC YEARS
WE'RE LOOKING AT SUBSTANTIAL.
SOCIAL DISRUPTION. HOW WE LIVED
OUR LIVES WHERE WE WERE WE HAD,
YOU KNOW. STAY AT HOME ORDERS
ISSUED. WHAT IT MEANS IS THAT
THERE ARE FEWER PEOPLE WHO ARE
OUT ON OUR STREETS, FEWER PEOPLE
WHO ARE ACTUALLY GOING TO
VARIOUS STORES, SO THERE'S LESS
TRAFFIC AT THE STORES. THAT'S
LIKELY TO CONTRIBUTE TO, UM TO
LESS SHOPLIFTING AS WELL. ON THE
COMMERCIAL BURGLARY SIDE, IT'S
POSSIBLE THAT THOSE ARE ACTUAL
BURGLARIES AS WELL THAT ARE
CONTRIBUTING TO THAT DURING THAT
PERIOD OF TIME. WE DO SEE, FOR
EXAMPLE, IN 2020. IF YOU LOOK AT
THE MONTHLY DATA FOR L A, FOR
EXAMPLE, YOU SEE VERY BIG. UH
JUMPING COMMERCIAL BURGLARIES IN
THE MIDST OF 2020 IN JUNE, AND
THAT'S AROUND THE PROTEST IN THE
WAKE OF THE MURDER OF GEORGE
FLOYD. AND SO THAT'S CAPTURED
ALSO IN THOSE KIND OF NUMBERS AS
WELL, THAT MIGHT HAVE
CONTRIBUTED TO THAT, UM, YOU'RE
YOU'RE SEEING DIFFERENT PATTERNS
THERE. I THINK WHEN YOU'RE
LOOKING AT THE COMMERCIAL
BURGLARY SIDE YOU'RE JUST SEEING
KIND OF A GRADUAL UPTAKE OVER
THE LAST FEW YEARS THAT YOU
KNOW, ARE POINTING TOWARDS WHEN
WE'RE LOOKING AT THE HIGHER
VALUE RETAIL THEFT. IT'S THE
DATA IS POINTING TOWARDS
INCREASES THEIR UNDER
SHOPLIFTING SIDE, WE SEE SOME
BIGGER FLUCTUATION AND ONE
CONCERN TO ME. AT LEAST THERE'S
IS CHANGES IN REPORTING AS WELL,
UH, YOU KNOW FOR THESE LOWER
VALUE INCIDENTS AS WELL THAT IN
SOME INCIDENTS RETAILER MIGHT
FEEL LIKE IT'S JUST NOT WORTH
IT. THIS WAS JUST I JUST LOST,
YOU KNOW WHETHER IT WAS A SIX
PACK OF BEER OR SOMETHING LIKE
THAT. I'M NOT GOING TO REPORT
THAT. SO ESPECIALLY, YOU KNOW,
IF THERE IS A SENSE THAT THIS IS
A PRETTY PREVALENT KIND OF
SITUATION, AND THE CONSEQUENCES
MAY BE LIMITED AS WELL. GREAT.
THANK YOU. OKAY AND THE INTEREST
OF TIME WE'RE GOING TO
TRANSITION. THE NEXT PANEL I
WOULD LIKE TO THANK BOTH OF YOU.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR GIVING US
PART OF YOUR AFTERNOON TODAY TO
HELP US UNDERSTAND THIS ISSUE
REALLY APPRECIATE IT. WE CAN
CALL THE NEXT PANEL UP.
WELCOME. UH, 10. THE NEXT PANEL
SECOND PANEL WILL FEATURE
PERSPECTIVES FROM RETAILERS,
WORKERS AND PROPERTY MANAGERS
AND SO VERY GRATEFUL TO BE
JOINED TODAY BY RACHEL MICHELIN
FROM THE CALIFORNIA RETAILERS
ASSOCIATION. WELCOME MY GOOD
FRIEND AMBER PARISH BAUER FROM
THE UNITED FOOD AND COMMERCIAL
WORKERS, WESTERN STATES COUNCIL
WELCOME MEMBER AND JEFF PRECHECK
FROM FEDERAL REALTY. UM YOU HAVE
SIX MINUTES. UH AND SO, UH,
RACHEL, PLEASE PROCEED WHEN
YOU'RE READY. GOOD AFTERNOON.
THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO
SPEAK WITH YOU ABOUT RETAIL
THEFT, AND WE REALLY WANT TO
APPRECIATE WE APPRECIATE SPEAKER
REVIS IN YOUR COMMITMENT TO
FOCUSING ON THIS ISSUE. WE THINK
IT'S VERY IMPORTANT AND
APPRECIATE YOU CHAIRS, BOROUGH.
I'M BRINGING ALL OF US TOGETHER
TO HAVE THIS CONVERSATION. UM I
WAS RECENTLY ASKED IF RETAILERS
IN THE MEDIA OR OVERHYPING THE
PROBLEM OF RETAIL THEFT. THE
FACT IS THAT RETAILERS ARE FACED
WITH MANY CHALLENGES DOING
BUSINESS IN CALIFORNIA, BUT THE
ISSUE OF RETAIL THEFT HAS
CLEARLY GROWN OVER TIME, AND ITS
IMPACT HAS CALLED RETAILERS OF
ALL SIZES TO TAKE MEASURES THAT
WE WOULD HAVE NOT HAVE
CONSIDERED YEARS AGO. WHETHER
LOCKING UP PRODUCTS, EMPLOYING
OFF DUTY TO POLICE OFFICERS AND
SECURITY GUARDS, PATROL CARS AND
PARKING LOTS. RETAILERS ARE
UTILIZING WHATEVER TACTICS WE
CAN TO DETER RETAIL THEFT. TO
PROTECT EMPLOYEES AND CUSTOMERS
FROM HARM. SO THE SHORT ANSWER
IS NO RETAILERS ARE NOT
EXAGGERATING THE PROBLEM OF
RETAIL THEFT. RECENTLY THE
SACRAMENTO COUNTY SHERIFF'S
DEPARTMENT SHARED THE RESULTS OF
OPERATION BAD ELF. THIS IS A
GREAT EXAMPLE OF THE TYPE OF
OPERATION THAT SHEDS A LIGHT ON
THE IMPACT OF RETAIL THEFT IN
OUR COMMUNITIES. OVER 10
RETAILERS PARTICIPATED,
RESULTING IN OVER 285 ARRESTS
AND 78 FELONY CHARGES. ARE THOSE
ARRESTED 20% WERE ON PROBATION
OR PAROLE, AND 65% HAD PREVIOUS
ARREST FOR ALLEGED VIOLENT
CRIMES. ON TUESDAY, NOVEMBER
28TH. THE SAN FRANCISCO POLICE
DEPARTMENT CONDUCTED ITS FIRST
OF TWO PREPLANNED SHOPLIFTING
ENFORCEMENT OPERATIONS. LET'S
23-14 ASSED ON ONE STORE ONE DAY
AND IT RESULTED IN THE ARREST OF
17 SUSPECTS, TWO OF WHICH HAD
OUTSTANDING WARRANTS. ON
TUESDAY, DECEMBER 5TH, A SECOND
SHOPLIFTING ENFORCEMENT
OPERATION RESULTED IN THE ARREST
OF SEVEN INDIVIDUALS. THREE OF
THOSE HAD OUTSTANDING ARREST
WARRANTS. MANY RETAILERS OF ALL
SIZES HAVE REPORTED THAT STORE
LEADERS HAVE BEEN TOLD BY LAW
ENFORCEMENT NOT TO REPORT RETAIL
THEFT INCIDENTS UNLESS THERE'S A
THREAT OF VIOLENCE AGAINST AN
EMPLOYEE OR CUSTOMER. SAM
RETAILERS DO NOT CALL ON FORCE
MINT FOR EVERY INSTANCE OF
SHOPLIFTING DUE TO THE VOLUME OF
THEFT HAPPENING, AND OTHERS HAVE
BEEN THREATENED WITH CITATIONS
OF PUBLIC NUISANCE IF THEY
CONTINUE CALLING LAW
ENFORCEMENT. ONE CALIFORNIA
RETAIL RETAILER NOTED THAT
DURING REGULAR HOURS OF
OPERATION RETAIL THEFT IS
HAPPENING EVERY THREE MINUTES
ACROSS THE STATE. SO THIS LEADS
TO THE BURNING QUESTION OF DATA.
WELL, WE KNOW SOME RETAILERS
HAVE INTERNAL POLICIES DO NOT
CALL ON FORCE MINT FOR EVERY
SINGLE INCIDENT. WE ALSO KNOW
LAW ENFORCEMENT MAY HAVE
INTERNAL POLICIES ON WHAT CRIMES
THEY WILL RESPOND TO. THIS
CREATES A PATCHWORK OF POLICIES
THAT VARY FROM CITY TO CITY LAW
ENFORCEMENT AGENCY TO LAW
ENFORCEMENT AGENCY, WHICH LEADS
TO SKEWED DATA ON THE REAL
IMPACT OF RETAIL THEFT. IRA WAS
PROUD, PROUD TO COLLABORATE WITH
THE NEW ADMINISTRATION ON THE
GOVERNOR'S RAIL PUBLIC SAFETY
PLAN, WHICH INCLUDED SECURING
THE $267 MILLION IN LOCAL LAW
ENFORCEMENT GRANTS. ALLOCATED
SPECIFICALLY TO COMBAT RETAIL
THEFT, AND WE WILL CONTINUE TO
WORK WITH LAW ENFORCEMENT ON
POLICIES THAT CAN HELP
STREAMLINE THE REPORTING PROCESS
THAT CAN RESULT IN BETTER DATA.
INDIVIDUALS COMMITTING RETAIL
THEFT HAVE USED ACTS OF
VIOLENCE, INCLUDING WEAPONS AND
SETTING FIRES TO STORES TO
CREATE A DISTRACTION. PREVENTING
RETAIL THEFT AND PROTECTING
RETAIL EMPLOYEES AND CUSTOMERS
IS THE TOP PRIORITY FOR ALL
RETAILERS IN CALIFORNIA. JUST
LET ME REPEAT THAT PREVENTING
FAT AND PROTECTING OUR EMPLOYEES
. OUR CUSTOMERS IS OUR TOP
PRIORITY. THE GROWTH OF RETAIL
THEFT AND THE DAMAGE IT CAUSES.
COMMUNITY COMMUNITIES DICTATES
THAT SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE
TO ENSURE THERE ARE CONSEQUENCES
TO PREVENT THIS CRIMINAL
BEHAVIOR FROM ENTERING OUR
STORES AND DETER IT FROM
CONTINUING TO ESCALATE. THE
CALIFORNIA RETAILERS ASSOCIATION
IS LOOKING TO WORK WITH THE
LEGISLATURE ON SEVERAL REFORMS
THAT WE BELIEVE CAN HELP CURTAIL
RETAIL PACKED IN CALIFORNIA.
SPECIFICALLY ALONG WITH OUR
PARTNERS IN LAW ENFORCEMENT AND
LOCAL GOVERNMENTS WERE
ADVOCATING FOR THE FOLLOWING.
FIRST TARGETING REPEAT
OFFENDERS. PENAL CODE 666.1,
WHICH YOU HEARD ABOUT EARLIER,
PETTY THEFT WITH A PRIOR WAS
REMOVED WITH THE PASSAGE OF
PROPOSITION 47 REINSTATING THIS
SECTION. WE NEED TO GO BACK TO
THE VOTERS. SO WE IMPLORE THE
LEGISLATOR LEGISLATURE TO ACT
FAST TO ENSURE CALIFORNIA VOTERS
HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO VOTE ON
THIS ISSUE ON THE NOVEMBER 2024
GENERAL ELECTION BALLOT.
AGGREGATION. UNDERSTANDING THERE
ARE CONSTITUTIONAL LIMITS TO
ADDING VALUES OF MULTIPLE THEFTS
COMMITTED BY THE SAME PERSON.
WE'RE ADVOCATING FOR
CLARIFICATION AND THE PINOT CODE
THAT MULTIPLE THEFTS CAN BE
AGGREGATED INTO ONE TOTAL VALUE
TO TRIGGER THE $950 THRESHOLD.
MULTIJURISDICTIONAL PROSECUTION.
LAST YEAR, A B 1612 WAS SIGNED
BY THE GOVERNOR, BUT WITH
SIGNIFICANTLY WATERED DOWN IN
THE ASSEMBLY PUBLIC SAFETY
COMMITTEE FROM ITS ORIGINAL
INTENT WHERE, ADVOCATING FOR THE
ORIGINAL LANGUAGE OF THE BILL TO
BE CONSIDERED FOR REINTRODUCTION
, WHICH WOULD MAKE IT CLEAR THAT
DHS AND CITY PROSECUTORS HAVE
THE AUTHORITY TO PROSECUTE
INCIDENTS WHERE THE SAME
INDIVIDUAL HAS COMMITTED THEFT
BOTH IN THEIR JURISDICTION AND
OUTSIDE THEIR JURISDICTION. AND
THEN ORGANIZED RETAIL CRIME
PINOT CODE 4 90.4, WHICH IS THE
CURRENT ORGANIZED RETAIL CRIME
STATUTE IS SET TO SENSE SET IN
2026. WE ARE WORKING WITH
STAKEHOLDERS ON LEGISLATIVE
PROPOSALS TO STRENGTHEN THE
STATUTE AND ADVOCATE FOR VARIOUS
CHANGES TO INCREASE THE ABILITY
TO PROSECUTE UNDER THIS SECTION,
SUCH AS REMOVING THE REQUIREMENT
THAT LAW ENFORCEMENT MUST
PROVIDE PROOF INTENT TO STEAL
AND ATTEMPT TO SELL FOR EACH
INCIDENT. WE BELIEVE THE ACT OF
STEALING SHOULD BE SUFFICIENT.
TODAY IN CALIFORNIA RETAIL THEFT
PACE AND IT PAYS WELL. IT IS
VIEWED AS A LOW RISK HIGH REWARD
VENTURE WITH LITTLE CONSEQUENCE
IF SOMEONE IS CAUGHT BUT NOW IS
THE TIME TO CHANGE THAT
NARRATIVE. IT'S TOO IMPORTANT
FOR CALIFORNIA CONSUMERS ARE
RETAIL EMPLOYEES AND THE
COMMUNITIES WE OPERATE IN. THANK
YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO SHARE
THE RETAIL PERSPECTIVE. I LOOK
FORWARD TO ANY QUESTIONS. THANK
YOU VERY MUCH, AMBER. AMBER
BAUER. I'M THE EXECUTIVE
DIRECTOR OF THE UNITED FOOD AND
COMMERCIAL WORKERS. WESTERN
STATES COUNCIL. THANK YOU FOR
INVITING UFCW TO BE A SPEAKER
HERE TODAY AND TO SHARE THE
WORKER PERSPECTIVE ON ORGANIZED
RETAIL THEFT. THE UFCW WAS AT
1.3 MILLION MEMBER STRONG
NATIONAL UNION WITH 180,000
WORKERS IN CALIFORNIA. WE
REPRESENT THE FOOD, DRUG AND
RETAIL INDUSTRIES. WE ARE
DEDICATED TO UPHOLDING A SET OF
CORE VALUES THAT REFLECT OUR
COMMITMENT TO THE SAFETY OF OUR
MEMBERS AND THE COMMUNITIES WE
SERVE. RETAIL WORKERS ARE FACING
IMPOSSIBLE WORKPLACE CONDITIONS
WITHOUT THE PROPER TRAINING AND
SAFETY MEASURES. THEY'RE ON THE
FRONTLINES OF THE CRUMBLING CITY
SOCIAL SAFETY, NET MENTAL HEALTH
CRISIS AND AN ADDICTION
EPIDEMIC. THE RAPIDLY INCREASING
PREVALENCE OF RETAIL THEFT AS AN
ISSUE HAS CREATED A WORKPLACE
SAFETY CRISIS AMONG OUR MEMBERS
AND OUR CUSTOMERS. OUR LEADERS
HEAR STORIES DAILY RELATED TO
THE VIOLENT INCIDENTS OF
ORGANIZED RETAIL THEFT IN OUR
STORE, BUT CURRENTLY THERE IS NO
REQUIREMENT FOR MANDATORY
REPORTING OR TRACKING BY
EMPLOYERS. I'D LIKE TO SHARE A
FEW STORIES FROM MEMBERS AND
THEIR TRAUMATIC EXPERIENCES THEY
HAVE FACED WITH ORGANIZED RETAIL
THEFT. IN SAN JOSE, A SAFEWAY
EMPLOYEE WAS SHOT AND KILLED
DURING A ROBBERY INSIDE THE
STORE. THERE WAS AN ALTERCATION
BETWEEN THE SAFEWAY EMPLOYEE AND
AN ASSAILANT WHO IS IN THE
ALCOHOL SECTION STEALING LIQUOR.
IN ANOTHER INCIDENT, TWO MEN
CAME INTO THE RIGHT RIGHT AID
STORE IN EAGLE ROCK TO STEAL
BEER. AS THEY WERE LEAVING THE
STORE WITH SEVERAL CASES OF BEER
THAT CASHIER APPROACH THEM TO
ASK THEM TO PAY FOR IT. ONE OF
THE MEN PULLED OUT A GUN AND
SHOT THE CASHIER AND THE CHEST.
THE CASHIER DIED IN THE ARMS OF
HIS COWORKER WHILE THEY WAITED
FOR AN AMBULANCE TO ARRIVE. A
SAFEWAY SECURITY GUARD IN SAN
FRANCISCO, WAS SHOT AND
SERIOUSLY INJURED WHEN THEY
ATTEMPTED TO STOP A SHOPLIFTER
WHO IS ATTEMPTING TO FEEL
ALCOHOL. THIS LEFT WORKERS AT
THE STORE SCARED TO GO TO WORK.
THEY WERE THREATENED BY THE
NATURE OF THE SHOPLIFTER AND
THEY WERE CONSIDERING AND THEY
ARE NOW CONSIDERING WORKING AND
NON RETAIL INDUSTRIES. THE ONLY
TRACKING OF THESE INCIDENTS THAT
IS CURRENTLY REQUIRED BY
EMPLOYERS IS THROUGH THE CALLOW
SHOT OR OCEAN 300 LOGS. BUT
THOSE LOGS ARE LIMITED IN THE
INFORMATION THEY CAPTURE BECAUSE
THEY ONLY TRACK WHEN A WORKER
HAS MISSED TIME AWAY FROM WORK
HAS BEEN HOSPITALIZED OR KILLED
ON THE JOB. THEY DON'T TRACK
INCIDENTS WHERE WORKERS HAVE
BEEN THREATENED WITH A GUN OR
KNIFE, ASSAULTED OR THREATENED,
VERBALLY OR ASSAULTED BUT DIDN'T
NEED TO BE HOSPITALIZED. TO
ADDRESS THIS DATA GAP, UFCW
SPONSORED SENATE BILL 553, WHICH
WAS AUTHORED BY SENATOR CORTEZ
E. THIS YEAR THAT, AMONG OTHER
THINGS, WILL REQUIRE EMPLOYERS
TO RECORD INCIDENTS OF WORKPLACE
VIOLENCE IN A VIOLENT INCIDENT
LOG. THE BILL WILL BECOME
EFFECTIVE JULY 1ST 2024 AND WILL
ALLOW FOR MUCH NEEDED DATA
COLLECTION ON THESE INCIDENTS.
THE CLASSIFICATION OF
CIRCUMSTANCE AT THE TIME OF THE
INCIDENT AND THE CONSEQUENCES OF
THE INCIDENT. UFCW BELIEVES THIS
IS A STRONG FIRST STEP TO GET
DATA ON THE TYPES, FREQUENCY AND
CIRCUMSTANCES SURROUNDED
ORGANIZED RETAIL THEFT TO MOVE
FORWARD PROTECTIONS FOR WORKERS
WITH A FOCUS ON DATA DRIVEN
SOLUTIONS. AN EFFECTIVE STRATEGY
THAT BIG BOX RETAILERS ARE
IMPLEMENTING THAT UFCW HAS BEEN
URGING SIGNATORY EMPLOYERS FOR
YEARS TO IMPLEMENT AS A
DETERRENT TO ORGANIZED RETAIL
THEFT IS HIGHER STAFFING LEVELS
IN THE STORES. FULL SERVICE,
CASHIER LANES AND SECURITY STAFF
AT ENTRANCES. BEST BUY HAS
EMPLOYED THIS STRATEGY AT 1000
OF THEIR STORES, ACCORDING TO A
RECENT CNN BUSINESS NEWS ARTICLE
STATING THAT QUOTE IT HAS
SHOPLIFTING UNDER CONTROL, END
QUOTE. THE BEST BUY ISN'T THE
ONLY BIG RETAILER THAT ALSO
UTILIZE THESE METHODS. LOATH HAS
ALSO INVESTED IN MORE HUMAN
CAPITAL TO REDUCE SHOPLIFTING
AND ORGANIZED RETAIL THEFT.
ADDITIONALLY LOWS HAS BEEN A LOT
OF TIME TRAINING EMPLOYEES. THE
STRATEGIES HAVE LED LOWE'S TO
HAVE AN INVENTORY SHRINK OF OVER
1% WHICH IS ON THE LOW END OF
THE TYPICAL INDUSTRY RANGE, AND
THE LOSSES FROM RETAIL THEFT
THIS YEAR ARE NOT EXPECTED TO
HAVE A MATERIAL IMPACT ON
COMPANY PROFITS. UNFORTUNATELY
THIS IS NOT THE CASE FOR THE
VAST MAJORITY OF RETAIL CHAINS.
IN RECENT YEARS. WE HAVE A
REDUCTION OF STAFFING LEVELS IN
OUR STORES. MORE AUTOMATED
SERVICES TAPE, TYPICALLY IN THE
FORM OF SELF CHECKOUT. AND
SHIFTED RESPONSIBILITIES ONTO
EMPLOYEES AND CUSTOMERS TO SAVE
MONEY AND BOOST PROFIT MARGINS.
COMFORT COMPANIES THAT USE SELF
CHECKOUT LANES AND APPS HAVE A
LOST RATE OF ABOUT 4% WHICH IS
MORE THAN DOUBLE THE INDUSTRY
AVERAGE. THINLY STAFFED STORES
AND MORE CHECKOUT LANES. ADD
ADDS RISKS OF ORGANIZED RETAIL
THEFT AND THEFT IN OUR STORES.
ACCORDING TO JOHN ECK, A
CRIMINOLOGIST AT THE UNIVERSITY
OF CINCINNATI. QUOTE THE MORE
RETAILERS GO TOWARDS REDUCING
LABOR COSTS AND PUTTING MORE OF
THEIR ENERGY ON SHOPPERS. THE
HIGHER THE SHOPLIFTING, END
QUOTE. CRIME PREVENTION EXPERTS
URGE MORE RETAILERS TO ADOPT
THESE PRACTICES TO DETER
SHOPLIFTING AND UFCW AGREES. IN
ORDER TO IMPROVE WORKERS' SAFETY
IN STORES AND REDUCE ORGANIZED
RETAIL THEFT. UFCW URGES
EMPLOYERS TO SIGNIFICANTLY
IMPROVE STAFFING AND EVEN
CONSIDER MANDATORY MINIMUM
STAFFING LEVELS ELIMINATE OR
REDUCE THE USE OF SELF CHECKOUT
MACHINES AND PROHIBITS CERTAIN
ITEMS FROM BEING PURCHASED
THROUGH SELF CHECKOUT. AND
PROVIDE EFFECTIVE WORKER
TRAINING. LASTLY, INCIDENTS OF
ORGANIZED RETAIL THEFT,
ESPECIALLY THOSE INVOLVING THE
USE OF A WEAPON ARE VERY
TRAUMATIC EXPERIENCES FOR OUR
MEMBERS. WE STRONGLY URGE
REQUIREMENTS FOR EMPLOYERS TO
PROVIDE POST INCIDENT UH, SORRY.
TRAUMATIC CARE TO WORKERS. THIS
COULD INCLUDE MAKING INDIVIDUAL
TRAUMA COUNSELING AVAILABLE TO
AFFECTED EMPLOYEES, TIME OFF OF
WORK AND CONDUCTING A POST
INCIDENT DEBRIEFING. THANK YOU
FOR ALLOWING ME TO TESTIFY AND
WELCOME QUESTIONS AT THE END.
THANK YOU, MR CRECHE. GOOD
AFTERNOON AND THANK YOU FOR THE
OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK TODAY. MY
NAME IS JEFF PRECHECK, AND I'M
THE PRESIDENT OF THE WESTERN
REGION FOR FEDERAL REALTY
INVESTMENT TRUST. AS I'M SURE
YOU'RE NOT FAMILIAR WITH THAT A
REALTY WHERE THE OWNERS AND
OPERATORS OF 102 SHOPPING
CENTERS ENCOMPASSING 26 MILLION
SQUARE FEET NATIONALLY,
INCLUDING PROPERTIES, SUCH AS
SANTANA ROW IN SAN JOSE EAST BAY
BRIDGE CENTER IN EMERYVILLE,
OAKLAND AND PROPERTIES IN SANTA
MONICA, HOLLYWOOD, ALSO GONDO,
BELL GARDENS AND WATTS. WITHIN
OUR NATIONAL PORTFOLIO. WE HAVE
APPROXIMATELY 3300 RETAIL
TENANTS. PROPERTIES ACROSS THE
COUNTRY. WE'VE HAD A UNIQUE VIEW
OF CONSUMER BEHAVIOR, SHOPPING
PATTERNS, RETAIL OPERATIONS AND
DECISIONS AND ELEMENTS OF STRONG
COMMUNITIES WITH THE HIGHLY
PUBLICIZED CRIME ISSUES WE FIND
OURSELVES AT A CRITICAL
CROSSROADS IS AN INDUSTRY
CONSUMERS HAVE MORE CHOICES
TODAY THAN EVER BEFORE. AND THE
ONLY TRUE DIFFERENTIATING FACTOR
IS THE PLACE. UNFORTUNATELY,
WHEN THE PLACE ITSELF IS
PERCEIVED AS NOT SAFE BE AT THE
STORE, THE SHOPPING CENTER OR
THE CITY, PUSHES CONSUMERS TO
OTHER AVENUES FOR SHOPPING AND
PUSHES RETAILERS TO MAKE
ALTERNATIVE DECISIONS AS TO
WHERE THEY LOCATE A STORE. WHILE
THE CURRENT ENVIRONMENT RELATIVE
TO ORGANIZED RETAIL CRIME IS A
NATIONAL ISSUE. THE ISSUES WE
ARE FACING IN CALIFORNIA ARE
PERVASIVE AND MORE PRONOUNCED,
AND IT IS IN ANY OTHER STATE
WHERE WE OWN PROPERTY. THAT IS
NOT AN EXAGGERATION. CALIFORNIA
IS SIMPLY THE MOST DIFFICULT
PLACE FOR RETAILERS AND OWNERS
SAFELY OPERATE STORES AND
PROPERTIES. AS YOU KNOW,
INVENTORY LOSS IN 2020 TO REACH
$94 BILLION AND OVER, 75% OF
RETAILERS REPORTED SOME SORT OF
ORGANIZED ROBBERY, RESULTING IN
PROPERTY LOSS AND OR PHYSICAL
HARM TO EMPLOYEES AND SHOPPERS.
IT IS EXPECTED THAT THE FULL
YEAR 2023 NUMBERS WILL BE
SIGNIFICANTLY WORSE. THESE
ORGANIZED CRIMINAL ENTITIES ARE
NOT FOCUSED ON ANY ONE
PARTICULAR TYPE OF SHOPPING
CENTER OR RETAILER, BUT RATHER
ARE OPPORTUNISTIC AND WILLING TO
TAKE ANYTHING THAT IS EASILY
AVAILABLE AND READILY SELLABLE
ON THE BLACK MARKET AND ON
TRADITIONAL RESALE WEBSITES, ALL
WITHOUT CONSEQUENCE. THE ISSUE
OF THEFT REFERRED TO IN REFERRED
TO AS SHRINK HAS BEEN A
CONSISTENT THEME ON RECENT
CORPORATE EARNINGS CALLS FROM
RETAILERS RETAILERS ACROSS THE
COUNTRY AS JUST ONE EXAMPLE, A
MAJOR NATIONAL TENANT REPORTED
120% INCREASE OF THEFT INCIDENTS
INVOLVING VIOLENCE OR THREATS OF
VIOLENCE IN THE FIRST FIVE
MONTHS OF 2023. THE
DISAPPEARANCE OF MERCHANDISE
CAUSED A $400 MILLION HIT TO
THAT RETAILERS GROSS PROFIT
MARGIN FOR THE YEAR ALONE.
ANOTHER NATIONAL PERIL RETAILER
SHARED THAT VOLUME OF THEIR
THEFT IN CALIFORNIA STORES IS
MORE THAN DOUBLE THE VOLUME OF
THAT IN ANY OTHER STATE. THE
FRUSTRATIONS THAT THIS RETAILER
SHARED WERE MAINLY POINTED AT
THE LACK OF PROSECUTION. THAT IS
FORCED THE RETAILER TO CLOSE
SEVERAL STORES ALREADY THIS
YEAR. THESE ARE JUST A FEW
EXAMPLES, BUT IT CONSISTENT
THEME FOR MOST EVERY NATIONAL
RETAILER. EVEN MORE TROUBLING IS
THE TREND AS IT AS IT IMPACTS
LOCAL, SMALLER TENANTS WHO ARE
NOT AS FISCALLY RESILIENT AS THE
NATIONAL RETAILERS, WHICH JUST
SUCH DRAMATIC FISCAL IMPACTS
CONCERNS OVER EMPLOYEE SAFETY
AND A GENERAL BELIEF THAT MANY
MUNICIPALITIES ARE SIMPLY NOT
INTERESTED IN PROSECUTING
RETAILERS ARE RECONSIDERING NEW
LOCATIONS AND IN SOME CASES,
CLOSING STORES AND RELATED
OPERATIONS. THE CONSEQUENCES OF
THIS WOULD BE DEVASTATING TO THE
LABOR MARKET, TAX REVENUE,
HOMELESSNESS AND THE OVERALL
HEALTH SAFETY AND ECONOMIC
STABILITY OF OUR COMMUNITIES.
WHAT STARTED AS ISOLATED
INSTANCES OF INDIVIDUAL
SHOPLIFTING HAS NOW GROWN INTO
ORGANIZED MOBS. MOBS WITH
TARGETED ASSAULTS ON RETAILERS
SPANNING FROM LUXURY TO DAILY
NEEDS. AS THE NUMBER OF
INCIDENTS HAS GROWN, SO, TOO HAS
THE BRAZENNESS AND VIOLENCE
ASSOCIATED WITH THESE TARGETED
ATTACKS. THE CRIMINALS AND
CRIMINAL CRIMINAL ENTERPRISES
BEHIND THE ROBBERIES HAVE LITTLE
TO NO REGARD FOR THE SAFETY OF
SHOPPERS OR EMPLOYEES AND HAVE
BEEN EMBOLDENED BY NOT ONLY THE
LACK OF INTERVENTION ON SITE BUT
THE CLEAR UNDERSTANDING THAT IF
CAUGHT, THERE WILL LIKELY BE NO
LITTLE TO NO CONSEQUENCES.
BETWEEN THE MISGUIDED POLICIES
OF PROPOSITION 47-57. NO CASH
BAIL AND THE FAILURE OF LOCAL D
A S TO ACTUALLY PROSECUTE CRIME.
WE HAVE CREATED A MICRO CULTURE
OF ANARCHY AND MAYHEM, MAYHEM IN
WHICH THE BASIC RULES OF A
CIVILIZED SOCIETY DO NOT MATTER.
CRIMINALS ARE VERY MUCH AWARE
THAT STORE STAFF AND ON SITE
SECURITY WILL NOT PHYSICALLY
ENGAGE AND COULD DO LITTLE MORE
THAN OBSERVE AND REPORT FOR FEAR
THAT THEIR OWN LIVES COULD BE AT
RISK. RETAILERS AND PROPERTY
OWNERS HAVE BEEN CLEAR IN THEIR
WARNINGS TO EMPLOYEES THAT THEIR
LIVES ARE NOT WORTH THE RISK TO
PROTECT THE MERCHANDISE. POLICE
CANNOT RESPOND FAST ENOUGH, AND
LAW ENFORCEMENT CLEARLY
UNDERSTANDS THAT EVEN IF THEY
COULD CATCH PERPETRATORS, THE
LOCAL D A S WILL LIKELY REFUSE
TO PROSECUTE OR RETAILERS
THEMSELVES WILL DECLINE TO PRESS
CHARGES. HE'S FAILED POLICIES
NOW SERVE A SMALL POPULATION OF
CRIMINALS, OUR COMMUNITIES AND
IMPACT THE MUCH LARGER
POPULATIONS THAT DEPEND ON THE
ENVIRONMENT AND EMPLOYMENT THAT
THE RETAIL ESTABLISHMENTS
PROVIDE. AND SO THE BROKEN
SYSTEM CHUGS ALONG WITH EVERYONE
PASSING THE RESPONSIBILITY FOR
WHERE WE ARE TO SOMEONE ELSE,
ALL WHILE THE LAWLESSNESS
CONTINUES WITH REAL IMPACTS YET
TO BE TRULY SEEN. UNFORTUNATELY
THE REAL IMPACTS ARE NOW MAKING
THEMSELVES VERY TRANSPARENT. IN
SEPTEMBER, TARGET PUBLICLY
ANNOUNCED IT WAS CLOSING NINE
STORES, INCLUDING THREE IN THE
BAY AREA AS A RESULT OF MAJOR
RETAIL THEFT. I CANNOT SPEAK FOR
TARGET, BUT I CAN ASSURE YOU
THAT THESE DECISIONS WERE NOT
MADE LIGHTLY, AND MORE
IMPORTANTLY, ONCE THEY ARE MADE.
THEY ARE IRREVERSIBLE. THEY ARE
PERMANENT. THERE ARE COUNTLESS
OTHER RETAILERS WHO ARE EITHER
CLOSING STORES ARE CHOOSING
SIMPLY TO REEVALUATE OPENING
STORES IN AREAS SUCH AS OAKLAND,
SAN FRANCISCO AND PARTS OF LOS
ANGELES SIMPLY BECAUSE OF SAFETY
AND CRIME CONCERNS, WHILE
CRITICS WILL COUNTER THAT THE
STORES WERE UNDERPERFORMING THAT
RETAILERS ARE HIDING BEHIND
ORGANIZED RETAIL THEFT AS A
RATIONALIZATION TO CLOSE STORES,
THE STORES ARE CLOSING
NONETHELESS. SO LET'S DISCUSS
THE TRUE IMPACTS OF THESE
CLOSINGS. FIRST YOU HAVE THE
OBVIOUS LOSS OF JOBS. THESE JOBS
TEND TO BE HOURLY EMPLOYEES WHO
ARE MOST IN NEED OF STABLE
EMPLOYMENT AND ARE MOST
FINANCIALLY VULNERABLE IN OUR
COMMUNITIES, WHILE A SMALL
CONVENIENCE STORE MAY ONLY
EMPLOY 2 TO 4 PEOPLE, THE NUMBER
GROWS EXPONENTIALLY AS THE SIZE
OF THE STORE DOES AS A 10,000
SQUARE FOOT RETAILER WHO
RECENTLY INFORMED US THAT THEY
PLAN TO CLOSE THEIR STORE TWO
YEARS EARLY. SIMPLY DUE TO THE
SHRINK IN STORE SHRINK AND FOR
FEAR OF THE SAFETY OF THEIR
EMPLOYEES, EMPLOYEES EMPLOYEES
ROUGHLY 30 PEOPLE ON A FULL AND
PART TIME BASIS ABOUT 30.
SECONDS WHEN THAT STORE CLOSES,
30 PEOPLE WILL LOSE THEIR JOB IN
THAT COMMUNITY AND ALL OF THE
ALL OR PART OF THEIR HEALTH
COVERAGE THAT'S ASSOCIATED WITH
THAT EMPLOYMENT. SECOND YOU HAVE
THE CLEAR LOSS OF GOODS AND
SERVICES IN THE AREA THAT
COMMUNITIES HAVE LITTLE VIABLE
RETAIL IN THEIR COMMUNITIES TO
START WITH. AND ONCE ONE SUCH
COMMUNITY WHERE WHERE WE HAVE A
GROCERY STORE, THE SHRINK IS
GONE FROM 1% TO 8% OF THE TOTAL
SALES THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE TO
SUSTAIN FOR BUSINESS THAT
TYPICALLY OPERATES ON A 2%
PROFIT MARGIN. THERE'S MUCH MORE
LIKE TO SAY. BUT IF TIME
PERMITTED, BUT AT THE END OF THE
DAY, THIS IS A VERY REAL PROBLEM
THAT IS GOING TO IMPACT THE
COMMUNITIES IN SUBSTANTIAL WAYS
THAT WILL BE HERE FOR DECADES
FOLLOWING THE CLOSINGS OF THESE
STORES WHEN THESE STORES CLOSED,
THE COMMUNITIES WILL SUFFER FOR
A LONG TIME. THANK YOU. THANK
YOU VERY MUCH. SO I NOW WOULD
LIKE TO RECOGNIZE MR SPEAKER
WANTED TO MAKE A FEW COMMENTS.
YEAH UM, THANK YOU FOR THAT
ASSEMBLYMEMBER'S UBER AND HAVE A
WHOLE BUNCH OF SCRIBBLED NOTES
EVERYWHERE. SO JUST AFTER YOU
BEAR WITH ME, BUT WANT TO THANK
FIRST ASSEMBLYMEMBER'S ZEBRA AND
BONTA WHO REACHED OUT TO ME
EARLY THIS SUMMER, UM. OCCURRING
IN THEIR DISTRICTS AND THE NEED
FOR US TO TAKE THIS ISSUE
SERIOUSLY. AND TO ENSURE THAT WE
WERE YOU KNOW THAT WE'RE DOING
ALL WE CAN TO, UM TO, UH, YOU
KNOW, TACKLE THIS ISSUE, AND SO
CERTAINLY THANKFUL FOR ALL THE
MEMBERS WHO HAVE PRIORITIZED
THIS ISSUE AND MADE THIS A
PRIORITY TO BE HERE, ESPECIALLY
ON DECEMBER 19TH. THERE'S UM
MUCH YOU KNOW, I'M I'M SURE
THERE ARE A LOT OF OTHER THINGS
THAT MANY OF US WOULD LIKE TO BE
DOING. BUT HERE WE ARE IN THE
CAPITAL, UM, TO HAVE THIS
CONVERSATION. APPRECIATE ALL OF
YOU WHO ARE HERE TO ENGAGE UM
AND CERTAINLY WHAT I APPRECIATE.
UM A QUESTION THAT
ASSEMBLYMEMBER'S OF HER ASKED AT
THE START OF THIS HEARING IS
DOES PERCEPTION, MATCH REALITY?
AND DOES THAT DISTINCTION
MATTER? AND IT DOES MATTER IT
MATTERS. BECAUSE, UM. IT'S
IMPORTANT AS A LEGISLATURE IS
IMPORTANT FOR ME AS I ENTER MY
SIX YEAR, UM, IN IN THE STATE
ASSEMBLY. I'M SURE FOR MANY OF
MY COLLEAGUES, THE POINT THAT WE
PRESERVE, UM ARE SUCCESSFUL
CRIMINAL JUSTICE REFORMS. BUT AT
THE SAME TIME WE NEED TO ENSURE
THAT WE ARE DELIVERING SOLUTIONS
FOR BUSINESS OWNERS AND
CONSUMERS, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT
COMES TO THIS ISSUE OF RETAIL
THEFT. AND LOOK I HAVE BEEN TO
ALL PARTS OF CALIFORNIA. AND IN
LARGE CITIES, SMALL CITIES IN
OUR RURAL COMMUNITIES. UH RETAIL
THEFT IS A TOP CONCERN. ALL
PARTS OF CALIFORNIA IS A TOP
CONCERN BECAUSE ONE I HAVE
ENGAGED WITH RESIDENTS WHO HAVE
WITNESSED OR KNOW SOMEONE WHO
HAS WITNESSED A RETAIL THEFT
INCIDENT IN THEIR, UH IN THEIR
COMMUNITY. UH THEY ARE EITHER
SITE. THESE SENSATIONALIZED
INCIDENTS THAT ARE ALL OVER
SOCIAL MEDIA THAT HAVE BEEN
BROADCAST BY MAJOR MEDIA
OUTLETS. UH, BUT BUT MORE SO
THAN ANYTHING EVERYONE IS
NOTICING THE CHANGES IN IN
ROUTINE SHOPPING EXPERIENCES.
WHEN THEY GO AND BUY, YOU KNOW,
UH, SOME DEODORANT OR LAUNDRY
DETERGENT IS UNDER LOCK AND KEY.
UH AND SO CERTAINLY THE CONCERN
IS VERY REAL. UH AND YOU KNOW,
AS YOU KNOW, SOMETHING THAT THAT
THAT CAUGHT. MY ATTENTION WAS AN
ARTICLE THIS MORNING IN THE
TIMES AND YOU KNOW, AT THE ONSET
OF THAT ARTICLE UH, THEY CITED
THIS HOME DEPOT CHIEF EXECUTIVE.
WHO SUGGESTED TO VIEWERS ON FOX
BUSINESS. THAT A SURGEON
SHOPLIFTING BY ORGANIZED GANGS
SHOWED THAT AMERICA WAS
DESCENDING INTO A LAWLESS
SOCIETY. I COULD NOT DISAGREE
MORE WITH THAT. EXECUTIVE. UM,
BECAUSE. YOU KNOW, AND THAT'S
NOT TO SAY THAT EVERYTHING IS
OKAY. IT'S NOT TO SAY THAT THAT
RETAIL THAT ISN'T A PROBLEM HERE
IN CALIFORNIA, AND THAT IS
EXACTLY WHY WE ARE HERE IS TO
HAVE THIS DISCUSSION TO ENGAGE
WITH STAKEHOLDERS. UH AND MY
EXPECTATION IS THAT MY
COLLEAGUES, THIS COMMITTEE WILL
ACT WITH FOCUS AND URGENCY. TO
FIND SOLUTIONS THAT WORK FOR
CALIFORNIA. UM AND WE KNOW THIS
IS A PROBLEM. WE KNOW THAT
THERE'S A GAP IN DATA. UH AND SO
I GET BACK TO THAT QUESTION.
ASKED BY SIMILAR MEMBER THE BIRD
DOES PERCEPTION MATCH REALITY.
UH UH. AND UH AND I LOOK FORWARD
TO FINDING THOSE ANSWERS AND TO
WORKING WITH YOU ALL ON
SOLUTIONS, BUT COULDN'T THINK OF
MY COLLEAGUES HERE ENOUGH
APPRECIATE THEIR COMMITMENT ON
TAKING ON THIS CRITICAL ISSUE,
MR ROBERT. THANK YOU. THANK YOU,
MR SPEAKER. I MEAN, I THINK HIS
ATTENDANCE HERE DEMONSTRATES HIS
COMMITMENT TO, UM, REALLY
LOOKING AT THIS ISSUE, DIGGING
DEEP AND UNDERSTANDING WHAT WE
NEED TO DO TO PROTECT. UH OUR
CONSUMERS ARE WORKERS, OUR
BUSINESSES AND OUR SMALL
BUSINESSES IN CALIFORNIA AND I
WANT TO THANK THE SPEAKER FOR
JOINING US TODAY. VERY GRATEFUL.
WITH THAT ANYONE COULD PUT
THEIR. UM UH. THE MICROPHONES
DOWN UNLESS YOU WANT TO SPEAK
AND THEN UM, WHAT I'D LIKE TO DO
IS FIRST RECOGNIZE, UM, CHAIR
MCCARTY AND THEN I'LL GO TO, UH
TO, UM, SOMEBODY MEMBER ORTEGA,
WHO HAS NOT BEEN HAD THE
OPPORTUNITY ASKED QUESTIONS
BEFORE. YES, THANK YOU. I HAVE A
FEW QUESTIONS FOR OUR RETAILERS
AND I HAVE MANY MORE. THE NEXT
PANEL FOR OUR REALLY THE
OVERARCHING ISSUES AND THAT IN
PRACTICE IN OUR IN OUR DISTRICT
ATTORNEYS AND OUR POLICE CHIEF,
BUT YOU REPRESENT RETAILERS
ASSOCIATION IN CALIFORNIA AND
GRANTED, RETAILERS ACROSS THE
COUNTRY IS A YEAR OF AFFILIATED
MEMBERS HERE, TALKED ABOUT SO
HOW DO YOU RECONCILE THAT THAT
WE WERE FIXATED ON THIS DOLLAR
AMOUNT AND PROP 47 AND AS MISS
PETRIE-NORRIS MENTIONED EARLIER,
CALIFORNIA WAS ONE OF THE LOWER
ONES AND OTHER STATES HAVE HAVE,
YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES DOUBLE
DOUBLE THAT. AND HOW DO YOU
RECONCILE HOW THAT DOLLAR AMOUNT
IMPACTS THE PROBLEM? WE HAVE IN
CALIFORNIA WITH RETAIL. I'LL SAY
WE'RE NOT NECESSARILY FIXATED ON
THE DOLLAR AMOUNT, AND I'M GONNA
USE TEXAS AS AN EXAMPLE, BECAUSE
I THINK SOMEONE BROUGHT UP TEXAS
THAT $2500. YOU HAVE TO READ THE
STATUTE. THEY HAVE PETTY THEFT
WITH A PRIOR ON YOUR THIRD
RETAIL THEFT. YOU'RE GOING TO
PRISON PRISON LIKE THAT'S IN
TEXAS, RIGHT? SO WHEN YOU'RE
LOOKING AT THOSE NUMBERS A
LITTLE BIT A MISNOMER ON THE
DOLLAR AMOUNT BECAUSE YOU HAVE
TO ALSO READ THE STEP, WHICH
I'VE DONE. YOU HAVE TO READ THE
STATUTE. WE DON'T HAVE PETTY
THEFT WITH A PRIOR ANYMORE IN
CALIFORNIA, AND SO FOR US, YOU
KNOW, WE'VE NEVER ADVOCATED FOR
CHANGING THE THRESHOLD. OTHER
OTHER FOLKS MIGHT HAVE DONE THAT
. WE'VE NEVER DONE THAT. WE HAVE
ADVOCATED FOR TWO THINGS IN THE
LEGISLATURE IN THE PAST TWO
YEARS, AGGREGATION AND PETTY
THEFT WITH A PRIOR IF WE COULD
BRING BACK SOMETHING LIKE PETTY
THEFT WITH A PRIOR OR THE
AGGREGATION UP TO THAT $950
THRESHOLD. YOU KNOW, WE THINK
THAT WOULD DO A LOT TO DETER IT.
BUT JUST TO LOOK AT THE NUMBERS,
YOU REALLY NEED TO GO BACK. AND
YOU KNOW TEXAS WAS ONE THAT WAS
BROUGHT UP TO ME. A COUPLE OF
YEARS AGO, I WENT AND READ THE
STATUTE. FROM THE TEXAS YOU
KNOW, PINOT CODE, AND THAT'S THE
DIFFERENCE. AND SO WHILE YOU CAN
LOOK AT THE DOLLAR AMOUNT, YOU
HAVE TO MAKE SURE OF THE
POLICIES TO BE ABLE TO HAVE THAT
CONSEQUENCE FOR BEHAVIOR, AND
UNFORTUNATELY, WE DON'T SEE THAT
HAPPENING RIGHT NOW IN
CALIFORNIA. OKAY, SO A SECOND,
UM, FOLLOW UP TO THAT IS NO.
TODAY WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE
PROBLEM. LEGISLATION WILL GET
THERE EVENTUALLY, RIGHT? UM BUT
AS AS ONE OF THE SOLUTIONS IS
ACCOUNTABILITY, AND WE HEARD
EARLIER FROM P P I. C DIRECTOR
THAT IT'S THAT IT'S NOT, UM THAT
IT'S THAT IT'S NOT DOLLAR AMOUNT
OR ANYTHING ELSE IS THERE IS THE
RISK OF BEING CAUGHT. AND SO IN
YOUR EYES, UM IS THERE IF
THRESHOLD OUTSIDE? IS THERE A
MINIMUM THRESHOLD FOR A PRIOR SO
IF YOU HAD PRIOR IN YOUR PETTY
THEFT, AND YOU COME IN THERE AND
TAKE A WATER BOTTLE WATER.
BOTTLE WHICH IS NOW $3 DOLLAR.
UM. SO WHAT DO WE THINK ABOUT
THAT? YOU KNOW, LOOK, OUR GOAL
IS NOT. WE'RE NOT LOOKING TO
THROW PEOPLE IN JAIL. WE JUST
WANT THEM TO STOP STEALING. WE
WANT THEM TO STOP COMING IN. WE
WANT THEM TO STOP PUTTING OUR
EMPLOYEES IN HARM'S WAY. PANERA
CUSTOMERS IN HARM'S WAY. SO TO
YOUR POINT WE'RE NOT LOOKING TO
THROW PEOPLE INTO JAIL FOR
STEALING A WATER BOTTLE. WE
WOULD ABSOLUTELY ENTERTAINED
CONVERSATIONS AROUND. WHAT DOES
THAT YOU KNOW? THIRD OR FOURTH
PETTY THEFT LOOK LIKE WHAT IS
THAT DOLLAR AMOUNT? UM
ABSOLUTELY, YOU KNOW, WE ALSO
LOOK AT THIS AS AN OPPORTUNITY
FOR INTERVENTION. YOU KNOW, I
THINK MY COLLEAGUE HERE TALKED
ABOUT WE HAVE PEOPLE COMING INTO
THE STORES WITH MENTAL HEALTH
ISSUES. WE HAVE PEOPLE COMING IN
WITH ADDICTION ISSUES WE HAVE
PEOPLE COMING IN THAT NEEDS SOME
OF THESE SUPPORT SERVICES AND WE
COULD USE RETAIL THEFT IS THE
OPPORTUNITY TO BE THAT
INTERVENTION POINT BOTH OF THE
PIECES OF LEGISLATION WE
SPONSORED IN THE LAST TWO YEARS,
BOTH ON THE PETTY THEFT SIDE,
AND THE AGGREGATION INCLUDE PRE
PLEA DIVERSION PROGRAM. RAIMES.
WE WOULD RATHER SEE PEOPLE GOING
INTO PROGRAMS TO GET HELP. IN
ADDITION, WE ALSO THEN OFFERED
JOB TRAINING PROGRAM BECAUSE
MANY OF THE RETAILERS WE WERE
THE FIRST INDUSTRY TO BAN THE
BOX. WE WELCOME PEOPLE WITH SOME
CRIMINAL BACK WITH WITH CRIMINAL
HISTORIES TO COME WORK IN OUR
STORES. WE WERE GOING TO COUPLE
THAT WITH JOB TRAINING PROGRAMS,
PART OF THE CHALLENGE WE HAVE ON
STAFFING LEVELS. WE CAN'T GIVE
PEOPLE INTO THE STORES TO WORK.
SO WE'RE CONSTANTLY FIGURE OUT.
HOW CAN WE DO THIS? AND WE THINK
THERE'S SOME UNIQUE
OPPORTUNITIES THAT WE CAN WORK
COLLABORATIVELY ON FINDING
SOLUTIONS, BUT WE HAVE TO
REMEMBER THIS IS CRIMINAL
ACTIVITY COMING INTO THE STORES,
AND WE HAVE TO FIGURE OUT A WAY
TO DETER THAT. AND RIGHT NOW,
THERE ISN'T THAT DETERRENT. THE
PERCEPTION IS AND MANY OF YOU
TALKED ABOUT PERCEPTION. YOU CAN
WALK INTO A STORE AND WALK OUT
AND THERE WILL NOT BE A
CONSEQUENCE. BUT WHAT'S WORSE TO
ME? AND THIS JUST CAME UP LAST
NIGHT WITH MY 15 YEAR OLD
DAUGHTER. I WAS ON A CALL
YESTERDAY WITH SOME SMALL
BUSINESSES WHO TALKED ABOUT HOW
KIDS ARE GOING INTO STORES AND
WALKING OUT WITH BOTTLES OF
ALCOHOL AND SELLING IT AT
PARTIES. SO I ASKED MY DAUGHTER
WHO'S IN HIGH SCHOOL. HAVE YOU
HEARD ABOUT THIS? OH, YEAH, MOM
HAPPENS ALL THE TIME. HEY, GO
INTO THE GROCERY STORES. THEY
THEY'RE NOT STEALING BECAUSE
THEY ARE IN NEED. THEY'RE
STEALING BECAUSE THEY KNOW THEY
CAN GET AWAY WITH IT. SO NOT
ONLY ARE WE DEALING WITH THE
CRIMINAL ELEMENT OF PEOPLE IN
THESE ORGANIZED CRIME RINGS OR
THE SHOPLIFTING RINGS, BUT NOW
WE'RE TRAINING A WHOLE
GENERATION OF KIDS THAT IT'S OK
TO STEAL WHEN IDEA WE'VE HAD,
AND I'VE TALKED TO SOME
POLICYMAKERS ABOUT THERE SHOULD
BE SOMETHING LIKE TRAFFIC SCHOOL
FOR YOUR FIRST INFRACTION ON
RETAIL THEFT. YOU KNOW WHEN MY
OLDER DAUGHTER GOT PULLED OVER
AFTER SHE GOT HER LICENSE, THE
WORST THING EVER HAPPENED TO
HER, WAS HAVING TO SPEND EIGHT
HOURS ONLINE IN TRAFFIC SCHOOL
THAT DETERRED THE BEHAVIOR. SO
WHAT ARE THINGS THAT WE CAN
START DOING TO HELP DETER THE
BEHAVIOR FROM HAPPENING IN THE
FIRST PLACE? BUT I THINK THAT
HAS TO BE PART OF A BROADER
CONVERSATION THAT THESE
INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE REPEAT
OFFENDERS, AND YOU TALK ABOUT
STORES LIKE TARGET WHO CLOSED
THEIR STORES. IT'S BECAUSE OF
THE REPEAT OFFENDERS COMING IN.
WE ALSO HAVE TO DEAL WITH THAT
ELEMENT AS WELL. AND THEN LASTLY
, YOU KNOW, WE TALKED ABOUT
EARLIER IN SACRAMENTO. THE
OPERATION BAD ELEPHANT. OUR
FORMER COLLEAGUE AND OUR SHERIFF
LIKES TO TALK ABOUT THIS TOPIC
AS WELL. UM SO HE BROUGHT UP A
POINT THAT SOME OF THE RETAILERS
AREN'T EVEN THOUGH THERE'S ANY
FISH INTO OPPORTUNITY. HE MANY
WOULD ARGUE WITH THE MISDEMEANOR
FELONY DIFFERENTIATION. SOME
RETAILERS AREN'T ALLOWING
ARRESTS TO HAPPEN IN THE STORES
BECAUSE OF THE PERCEPTION THEY
DON'T WANT TO HAVE THAT VIDEO
THAT GOES ON TIKTOK AND SO
FORTH. HOW WOULD YOU RESPOND TO
THAT? AND WHAT RETAILERS ARE NOT
DOING ALLOWING LOCAL LAW
ENFORCEMENT TO HELP. STOP THIS
IN THE FIRST PLACE. YES YOU HAVE
TO TALK TO THE INDIVIDUAL
RETAILERS AND THEIR POLICY
DIRECTLY. BUT I WILL SAY THIS.
OUR NUMBER ONE PRIORITY IS THE
SAFETY OF OUR CUSTOMERS AND OUR
EMPLOYEES IN THE STORE AND YOU
TALK ABOUT SOME OF THE THINGS
RELATED TO TRAUMA. IT COULD BE
VERY TRAUMATIC IF YOU HAVE, YOU
KNOW, LAW ENFORCEMENT BRAZENLY
COMING INTO A STORE AND STARTING
TO ARREST PEOPLE, YOU KNOW,
THINK ABOUT THE MOM SHOPPING
WITH THE YOU KNOW, FIVE YEAR OLD
OR TEENAGERS IN THE STORE, MAYBE
DOING THEIR CHRISTMAS SHOPPING.
AND SO I THINK THERE HAS TO BE A
BALANCE TO THAT. YOU KNOW, WE'RE
WE'RE OPEN TO HAVING
CONVERSATIONS WITH THAT. BUT I
DO THINK YOU KNOW THE SAME TOKEN
. I HAVE A STORE HERE IN
SACRAMENTO THAT IS BEING TOLD IF
THEY CONTINUE TO CALL ON FORCE
MINT ENGAGED LAW ENFORCEMENT.
THEY'RE GOING TO BE CITED AS A
PUBLIC NUISANCE. SO IT'S ALMOST
FEELS LIKE THE RETAIL INDUSTRY
AND THE OTHER THING I WANT TO
POINT OUT IS WE FOCUS A LOT ON
LIKE THE BIG BOX STORES. BUT I
GOT TO TELL YOU THAT THE PEOPLE
I'M HEARING FROM THE MOST. I WAS
ON THE CALL YESTERDAY WITH A
NUMBER OF SMALL BUSINESS OWNERS
IN OAKLAND, CALLING ME SAYING WE
NEED YOUR HELP BECAUSE IT'S OUR
SMALL RETAILERS WHO ARE BEING
HIT CONSTANTLY. THESE GROUP OF
RETAILERS TOLD ME RATE OF WE
CAN'T GET SOME REAL CHANGE
HAPPENING IN THE LEGISLATURE BY
APRIL, STORES WILL START CLOSING
IN OAKLAND. AND TO YOUR POINT
YOU DON'T GET THAT BACK. SO I
THINK THERE'S A LOT OF
CONVERSATIONS THAT CAN HAPPEN,
AND THAT'S WHY WE CONTINUE TO
PARTNER PARTICULARLY WITH UM
POLICE CHIEFS ASSOCIATION AND
THE LEAGUE OF CITIES ON HOW WE
CAN WORK COLLABORATIVELY
COLLABORATIVELY TO FIND THE
SOLUTIONS. THANK YOU. OKAY,
LET'S TRY TO KEEP OUR QUESTIONS
TO AROUND FOUR MINUTES AND I'D
LIKE TO RECOGNIZE
ASSEMBLYMEMBER'S ORTEGA, WHO'S
BEEN WAITING PATIENTLY. I WILL
BE VERY BRIEF. UM THIS QUESTION
IS ACTUALLY WHAT I WANT TO THANK
FIRST OF ALL, MISS PARRISH BAUER
FOR SHARING THOSE HEARTBREAKING,
UM, STORIES. I MEAN, ONE THING
TO KEEP IN MIND AND IS THAT WHAT
WE'RE DOING HERE IS NOT JUST
SAVING MONEY, BUT ALSO SAVING
LIVES AND REALLY THINKING ABOUT
THOSE ESSENTIAL WORKERS WHO ARE
AT THE FRONT LINE. EVERY DAY. UM
SO THANK YOU FOR SHARING THAT,
UM, MY QUESTION IS DIRECTED TO
MR CRENSHAW CHECK. OKAY SO I'M
JUST TRYING TO UNDERSTAND THERE
WAS A COMMENT MADE ABOUT RETAIL
THEFT PAYS. SO WHERE IS
HAPPENING TO THE MERCHANDISE
ONCE IT'S STOLEN, AND THAT'S
LEADING TO PEOPLE GOING IN
TAKING BOOKS OF THINGS AND THEN
SELLING IT SOMEWHERE. SO I
STARTED LOOKING AROUND OUR AND
RAN INTO AN ARTICLE. WHERE I
WANT TO QUOTE ONE OF THE PIECES
IN THERE, IT SAID IN 2021, A
LAND FORCE MINT OFFICER TOLD THE
WALL STREET JOURNAL THAT AMAZON
IS THE LARGEST UNREGULATED PAWN
SHOP IN THE COUNTRY. I'VE ALSO
HEARD, UM, THAT PLACES LIKE
FACEBOOK MARKETPLACE ARE SELLING
THINGS THAT LOOK LIKE STOLEN
GOODS. SO MY QUESTION TO YOU IS,
UH, WOULD REGULATING AMAZON OR
OTHER LARGE MEDIA SITES, UH,
CURB OR DETER THE SALE OF STOLEN
RETAIL GOODS. WITHOUT A DOUBT IF
YOU TAKE AWAY THE MARKETPLACE
WHERE THESE GOODS CAN BE SOLD,
THEY HAVE NO VALUE ANY LONGER.
UM, TAKING ON AMAZON TO CURB
THAT'S NOT A SMALL TASK. I HOPE
I HOPE YOU CAN APPRECIATE. BUT
IS THAT PART OF THE SOLUTION?
ABSOLUTELY YOU HAVE TO TAKE AWAY
THE VEHICLE THROUGH WHICH THIS
MERCHANDISE GETS RESOLD. IF YOU
DON'T DO THAT, IT'S ANYTHING YOU
DO DO ON THE CRIMINAL SIDE WILL
BE WORTHLESS BECAUSE IT'LL STILL
BE SOLD. IT HAS TO BE STOLEN. IT
JUST GONNA MAKE IT A LITTLE
HARDER TO STEAL. BUT IF YOU
DON'T MAKE IT HARDER TO SELL,
YOU'RE NOT SOLVING THE PROBLEM.
CAN I COMMENT ONE MOMENT BECAUSE
THERE WAS LEGISLATION THAT WAS
PASSED? UM SENATOR SKINNER'S
BILL SB 301 THAT WAS SIGNED BY
THE GOVERNOR, WHICH WAS THE
INFORMED CONSUMERS ACT THAT
ACTUALLY DOES DO WHAT YOU'RE
TALKING ABOUT. PROVIDES MORE
TRANSPARENCY AND GUARD WHALES.
CALIFORNIA PASSED IT, AND THEN
IT WAS USED AS THE MODEL TO PASS
AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL. SO WE DO
THAT JUST TOOK A FACT. JULY 1 OF
THIS YEAR. SO THERE ARE THOSE
GUARDRAILS THAT WE'RE STARTING
TO SEE SOME SOME SOME THINGS
HAPPENING THERE, AND IT'S NOT
JUST ON THAT. I MEAN, THERE'S
MULTIPLE THESE ONLINE
MARKETPLACES. OPEN UP
CONSTANTLY. IT'S HARD TO KEEP
UP. BUT WE ARE MAKING PROGRESS.
AND, YOU KNOW, I WAS THRILLED
THAT WE WERE SPONSORED SO THAT
LEGISLATION WE WORKED WITH THE
NEW SUMMER ADMINISTRATION ON
THAT, AND IT DID BECOME THE
MODEL NATIONWIDE TO MAKE SURE WE
CAN CAN COMBAT THOSE THAT BRING
SELLING ON THE ONLINE
MARKETPLACES. SOME OF THEM WERE
BORN TO. WERE YOU? WERE YOU
FINISHED? I WAS JUST GONNA GO
AHEAD. GO AHEAD. APPRECIATE THAT
LIVE, BUT IT CLEARLY IT'S
THERE'S STILL LITTLE HOLES IN
THERE THAT NEED TO BE ADDRESSED,
AND HOPEFULLY WE'LL GET SOME
DATA ONCE IT IS ACTUALLY
IMPLEMENTED. I'M HOPING ONCE WE
HAVE FURTHER HEARINGS THAT
THAT'S ACTUALLY SOMETHING THAT
WE FOCUS IN ON BECAUSE AGAIN,
THEY'RE GOING SOMEWHERE. UM AND
IT'S AN AREA I REALLY WANT TO
WORK ON. SO THANK YOU. THANK YOU
CHAIR. UH AND I WANT TO THANK
THE PANEL FOR ACTUALLY RAISING
THE CONCERNS. UH FROM THE
BUSINESS OWNERS IN OAKLAND THAT
I ACTUALLY SPENT TIME WITH OVER
THIS LAST WEEKEND AND HAVE
PREVIOUSLY AS WELL UNDERSTANDING
THEIR CONCERNS ONE OF THE ISSUES
THAT WE DID TALK ABOUT, UH AND
THE PANELISTS RAISED AS WELL.
WAS THIS, UH, IDEA THAT WE'VE
ACTUALLY BEEN ABLE TO INVEST
CLOSE TO 260 $70,000 THROUGH TWO
DIFFERENT GRANT PROGRAMS
ADMINISTERED BY THE BSC SEE
RELATED TO ORGANIZED RETAIL
THEFT. I WANTED JUST TO KIND OF
MAKE AWARE FOR THE SAKE OF, UH,
MY FELLOW COLLEAGUES AT THOSE,
UH, THOSE GRANT PROGRAMS WERE
INCREDIBLY OVERSUBSCRIBED. UM UH
, THE B S C C WILL NOTE THAT
THEY HAD OVER, UM $300 MILLION
IN REQUESTS ASSOCIATED WITH THAT
, AND THERE ARE 76 POLICE
DEPARTMENTS, COUNTY SHERIFF'S
OFFICES AND DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S
OFFICES THROUGHOUT THE STATE OF
CALIFORNIA WHO APPLIED FOR THE
GRANT AND DID NOT AWARD IT SO AS
WE'RE LOOKING FOR ADDITIONAL
SOLUTIONS. I CERTAINLY HOPE THAT
WE WILL CONTINUE TO BE ABLE TO
INVEST IN MAKING SURE THAT WE
HAVE LOCAL COUNTIES ABLE TO
ADDRESS UH, THESE ISSUES AROUND
RETAIL THEFT IN A WAY THAT IS
ACTUALLY SUPPORTIVE OF THE
PROBLEM THAT THEY ARE TRYING TO
SOLVE. THE PREVIOUS PANEL DID
TALK ABOUT THE FACT THAT WE, UM
THAT WE'RE NOT REALLY CLEAR ON
BY COUNTY WHAT THE NUANCES,
CAUSING, UM, CAUSING THE LEVEL
OF TEMPLAR AFTER THE KIND OF
DEATH THAT WE NEED TO. AND SO
WHILE I WERE STATE LEGISLATORS
EVERY EVERY NAIL LOOKS LIKE A
HAMMER. I DO THINK THAT ONE OF
THE THINGS THAT WE NEED TO FOCUS
IN ON IS BEING NUANCED ENOUGH TO
PROVIDE COUNTY LEVEL SUPPORT. UM
AND MAKING SURE THAT WE ARE
CONTINUING TO PROVIDE THE
FUNDING ADEQUATE FUNDING TO BE
ABLE TO SUPPORT THESE EFFORTS AT
THE LOCAL LEVEL. THANK YOU, UH,
I'M GONNA I'M GONNA CALL ON AND,
UH, SOMETHING I NEVER PUT
CHECKOUTS AND SHE HASN'T SPOKEN
YET AND THEN I'LL GO TO FOCUS ON
THE SIDE OF THE ROOM. THANK YOU.
AND THANK YOU FOR PARTICIPATING
IN THIS PANEL TODAY. I HAD A
COUPLE OF QUESTIONS. UM ONE OF
THEM HAS HAS TO DO WITH RETAIL
THEFT. UM BEING SOLD ONLINE
ACTUALLY SEEN AN INCIDENT IN IN
L, A, IN WHICH IT WAS ACTUALLY
BEING SOLD AT A STOREFRONT, SO
IT WAS ACTUALLY BEING SOLD IN A
LOCATION OVER IN THE CITY OF LOS
ANGELES. AND I'M CURIOUS AS TO
WHETHER WE'RE SEEING THIS MORE
OFTEN THAT THERE ARE NOW
STOREFRONTS OPENING AND WHICH WE
ARE SEEING, UM, STOLEN
MERCHANDISE BEING STOLEN. I MEAN
BEING SOLD UM, WE HAVE NOT SEEN
THAT. BUT I'M SURE IT EXISTS.
UM, THE GOOD NEWS ABOUT THAT IS
IT'S PRETTY PRETTY TRANSPARENT.
UH IF SOMEBODY IS OPENING A
STORE FRONT TO SELL, SELL STOLEN
MERCHANDISE, IT'S USUALLY PRETTY
EASY TO IDENTIFY AND PRETTY EASY
TO SHUT DOWN. UM AND IT'S HARD
TO HIDE THE STOREFRONT. SO THOSE
THEY POP UP HERE THEY POP UP
THERE. THEY'RE PRETTY EASY TO
MAKE THEM GO AWAY. AND I HEARD
THAT THE LOCATION OF THIS
STOREFRONT WAS MACARTHUR PARK.
IF YOU'RE FROM AMERICA,
MACARTHUR PARK IS ANOTHER STORY
YOU WANT. YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT
HOW TO STOP THE SELLING OF
STOLEN GOODS CLOSED, CLOSED DOWN
MACARTHUR PARK. I MEAN, LIKE
THAT, THAT WOULD SOLVE ELLA'S
PROBLEM IN ABOUT 90 SECONDS.
ABSOLUTELY. AND THEN, UM I HEAR
A LOT OF THE SAME THEME, WHICH
IS RELATED TO CONSEQUENCES. UH
AND THE D A. S THERE WAS A
COMMENT MADE ABOUT THE D A S
OFFICE, NOT FILING ON CERTAIN
CASES. UM AND THROUGHOUT THE
STATE OF CALIFORNIA, EVERY
COUNTY HAS A DIFFERENT D A. SO
ARE WE SEEING DIFFERENT FILING
RATES? THROUGHOUT THE STATE OF
CALIFORNIA AND DIFFERENT AMONGST
THE DIFFERENT COUNTIES WITHIN
THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA. YES. WE
ARE IT DEFERRED. THEY'RE ALL YOU
KNOW, THEY ALL RUN THEIR OWN
PROGRAMS. AND SO YOU ARE SEEING
THINGS THAT ARE DIFFERENT.
THAT'S WHY, YOU KNOW, WE'RE ALSO
LOOKING AT THE MULTI
JURISDICTIONAL LEGISLATION THAT
ASSEMBLY WITH WOMEN IRWIN HAD
LAST YEAR THAT WAS WATERED DOWN
BECAUSE WE DO SEE THAT CERTAIN
COUNTIES WILL PROSECUTE MORE
THAN OTHERS AND THAT GOES BACK
TO DETERRENCE. IF PEOPLE ARE
GOING TO I KNOW THAT THERE'S
GOING TO BE A CONSEQUENCE
BECAUSE THEY'RE GOING TO BE
PROSECUTED. THEN THAT HELPS
DETER THE BEHAVIOR AND I THINK
THE THEME HAS TO BE DETERRENCE
FIRST, RIGHT AND WHEN PEOPLE SEE
THAT AND THEY KNOW THAT THERE'S
GOING TO BE ACCOUNTABILITY, BUT
WHEN YOU HAVE CERTAIN PARTS OF
THE STATE WHERE THERE'S THEY
KNOW THEY'RE NOT GOING TO BE
PROSECUTED. THAT'S WHERE PEOPLE
ARE GOING TO GO BECAUSE THEY
KNOW THEY CAN GET AWAY WITH IT.
SO THERE IS VERY IT'S VERY
INCONSISTENT THROUGHOUT THE
STATE OF CALIFORNIA. OKAY. THANK
YOU. THANK YOU, MR CHAIR.
ASSEMBLYMEMBER'S SZABO. THANK
YOU, MR CHAIR. UM SO I WONDERED
IF YOU COULD TALK A LITTLE BIT
ABOUT THE RETAILERS. UM WHAT
KIND OF DATA THAT YOU COLLECT?
BECAUSE IT SEEMS LIKE YOU KNOW,
ESPECIALLY IN THE PREVIOUS, UM
PANEL. THERE'S A LOT OF
QUESTIONS STILL OUT THERE WHEN
WE LOOK AT THE DATA, UM AND A
LOT OF GAPS, AND, UM, I IMAGINE
THAT RETAILERS PAY A WHOLE LOT
OF DETAILED ATTENTION TO WHAT IS
HAPPENING IN THEIR STORES. UM IS
THAT SHARED? CAN WE SEE THAT?
WHERE SO HOW DO WE GET TO THE
FACT THAT WE COULD DO YOU KNOW
THAT'S WAY ABOVE MY PAY GRADE.
I'LL TELL YOU THAT, UM THAT IS
THAT IS VERY, VERY CHALLENGING
BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER
THEIR COMPETITORS COMPETE, AND
THEY'RE NOT IN. MANY OF THEM ARE
PUBLICLY TRADED COMPANIES SO
THEY'RE VERY HESITANT TO SHARE
SPECIFIC DATA. YOU KNOW, IN SOME
CASES, YOU KNOW, AND I WOULD
ENCOURAGE YOU AND I KNOW IN SOME
OF YOU HAVE PROBABLY TALKED
INDIVIDUALLY. TO DIFFERENT
RETAILERS. I'D ENCOURAGE YOU TO
REACH OUT AND I'D BE HAPPY TO
HELP YOU DO THAT, BUT THAT'S
VERY DIFFICULT, AND I THINK
THAT'S TRULY PART OF THE PROBLEM
IS. HOW DO WE GET THAT GOOD SET
OF DATA AND I'LL BE ON. I'VE
BEEN ASKING SINCE I STARTED THIS
JOB DATA THAT I AGREE WITH YOU.
WE NEED BETTER DATA, AND I'VE
BEEN TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WAYS
THAT WE CAN MAKE THAT HAPPEN.
BUT IT IS A CHALLENGING PIECE TO
THIS. YOU KNOW, THAT'S WHY I
THINK IT IS DIFFICULT WHEN YOU
KNOW PART OF THE CHALLENGES WE
DO CALL ON ENFORCEMENT, YOU
KNOW, AND IF LAW ENFORCEMENT
COULD FILE POLICE REPORTS MORE
OFTEN, BUT WHEN IT'S HAPPENING
SO MANY TIMES ACROSS THE STATE
AND TO YOUR POINT I THINK WE
TALKED ABOUT THE COUNTIES.
THERE'S SOME COUNTIES THAT DON'T
HAVE THE ABILITY. THEY DON'T
HAVE THE BUDGETARY, UM, WHERE WE
THOUGHT TO BE ABLE TO INVEST IN
THAT. YOU KNOW, THAT'S WHY
YOU'RE RIGHT. THE $267 MILLION
GRANT PROPOSAL THAT THAT I
ADVOCATED FOR THE GOVERNOR WAS
BECAUSE I WENT OUT AND TALKED TO
LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT THAT WAS
MONEY SPECIFIC TO RETAIL THEFT.
BUT UNFORTUNATELY, I DON'T THINK
THE STATE HAS A LOT OF MONEY TO
BE ABLE TO PUSH A LOT OF FUNDING
TO THIS. SO I AGREE WITH YOU.
AND I THINK THAT WE'RE MORE THAN
HAPPY TO WORK WITH THE
LEGISLATURE ON. HOW CAN WE
FIGURE OUT WAYS TO DO BETTER
DATA COLLECTION, BUT IT IS GOING
TO BE A CHALLENGE BECAUSE OF THE
LEVEL OF COMPETITION AMONG
RETAILERS. SMALLER RETAILERS
DON'T HAVE THE ABILITY TO
NECESSARILY DO IT AND I TRY. I
REALLY WANT TO MAKE SURE WE
FOCUS ON THEM. BECAUSE A LOT OF
FOCUS CAN GET PUT ON KIND OF THE
NATIONAL BRANDS. BUT THESE POOR
RETAILERS ARE SUFFERING IN OUR
COMMUNITIES EVERY DAY, AND I
DON'T THINK THEY NECESSARILY GET
THE ATTENTION THEY DESERVE. WE
HAVE TO MAKE IT EASY FOR THEM
AND RECOGNIZE THEIR CHALLENGES.
BUT I DON'T DISAGREE WITH YOU ON
THE DATA AND I, YOU KNOW, I'M
ALWAYS TRYING TO FIND WAYS THAT
WE CAN DO BETTER IN THAT AREA.
THANK YOU. AND JUST ONE MORE
QUESTION. UM SO AND I APPRECIATE
YOU BRINGING IT BACK A LOT TO
SMALLER RETAILERS. BECAUSE THAT
YOU KNOW THOSE ARE THE FOLKS
THAT I TALKED TO IN MY COMMUNITY
WHO ARE REALLY WHO ARE
STRUGGLING WITH THIS, RIGHT? UM
AND A LITTLE BIT. MAKES A BIG
DIFFERENCE IN THEIR BUSINESSES.
UM SO YOU KNOW, SO I THINK THAT
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE REALLY
NEED TO FIGURE OUT IS HOW DO WE
MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE GETTING
MORE SUPPORT AND RESOURCES FOR
THOSE SMALLER RETAILERS WHO
DON'T HAVE WHOLE DEPARTMENTS
DEDICATED TO LOST PREVENTION?
UM, BUT I WONDER IF. THERE'S A
WAY TO GET TO THE DATA IN
AGGREGATE WAY THAT DOESN'T CALL
OUT SPECIFIC, YOU KNOW COMPANIES
, UM, THAT WE COULD REALLY GET,
YOU KNOW, DIAL DOWN ON MORE
SPECIFICS, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW
WE'RE HEARING UM MR CRUSH IT, UM
, TALK ABOUT CALIFORNIA'S THE
WORST PLACE TO BE IT SOUNDS LIKE
FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE. AND YET,
ARE, YOU KNOW, BUT THEN WE'RE
TALKING ABOUT SHOPLIFTING BEING
DOWN OVERALL IN CALIFORNIA, SO
IT'S VERY HARD TO, UM. TO REALLY
GET A HANDLE ON WHAT'S REALLY
HAPPENING. UM, WHEN YOU KNOW
WHEN WE'RE HEARING THESE REALLY
DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES AND
DIFFERENT STATISTICS, SOMETIMES,
UM, AND SO I WONDERED IF YOU
COULD TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT
BECAUSE I APPRECIATE UM WHAT
MISS PARISH POWER BROUGHT UP
ABOUT? YOU KNOW THE ISSUES
AROUND STAFFING, SELF CHECKOUT
IF ANYONE'S GONE TO THE BURBANK
AIRPORT LATELY, THE STORE
THEY'RE JUST PUT A WHOLE WALL OF
SELF CHECKOUTS IN THE LITTLE
STORE AND YOU CAN'T EVEN GET TO
A PERSON TO CHECK OUT, WHICH IS
WHAT I ALWAYS DO. UM BUT, UM,
YOU KNOW, ARE YOU SEEING DO YOU
HAVE DATA OR INFORMATION ABOUT
DIFFERENCES IN STORES THAT DO
YOU SELF CHECKOUT OR DO HAVE
LOWER STAFFING NUMBERS VERSUS
STORES THAT DON'T IT SOUNDS LIKE
ANECDOTALLY. THERE'S SOME
SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCES WITH,
LIKE, BEST BUY AND LOWS. BUT I
WONDER IF YOU'RE SEEING SOME
SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCES THERE. I
DON'T BUT I HAPPY TO RESEARCH
THAT MORE. I DO KNOW YOU'RE
SEEING MORE AND MORE RETAILERS
MOVING AWAY FROM SELF CHECKOUT.
BUT AGAIN, WE GO BACK TO THE
PROBLEM OF YOU HAVE TO HAVE
PEOPLE THERE WHO ARE WILLING TO
TAKE THE JOBS. AND I THINK THE
POINT TAKEN IS THAT YOU KNOW IT
IS IT IS. PEOPLE ARE RETHINKING
WE TELL USED TO BE THE BEST. YOU
KNOW. I'M GOING TO GO IN 15. IS
OLD WORKING RETAIL, RIGHT? AND
NOW PEOPLE ARE RETHINKING THAT.
YOU KNOW, WE'VE GOT YOU KNOW
WE'RE AN INDUSTRY THAT IT CAN
GIVE YOU YOUR FIRST JOB AND YOUR
LAST JOB. A LOT OF OUR RETAILERS
HIRE PEOPLE IN RETIREMENT
BECAUSE THEY NEED THAT SOCIAL
INTERACTION. SO I THINK WE'RE
SEEING SOME OF THOSE CHANGES.
BUT I DO THINK IT'S A COLLECTIVE
PROBLEM. WE'RE SINGING
CALIFORNIA OUTSIDE OF JUST
RETAIL. WE HAVE, YOU KNOW, YOU
KNOW, DOCTOR SHORTAGES, NURSES
SHORTAGES. WE'VE GOT A LOT OF
OTHER INDUSTRIES THAT ARE FACING
EMPLOYEES SHORTAGES. I THINK
WE'RE PART OF THAT AS WELL. AND
SO THAT'S WHY FOR US. HOW CAN WE
ALSO BRING A JOB TRAINING
PROGRAMS? HOW CAN WE GET PEOPLE
TO AND HOW DO WE CHANGE THE
NARRATIVE? SO PEOPLE COME BACK
TO REALIZING IT RETAILS A GREAT
PLACE TO WORK? THAT WE HAVE TO
FIGURE OUT SOME OF THOSE
SOLUTIONS. BUT I WILL DO SOME
DIGGING FOR YOU IN CIRCLE BACK
WITH YOU. MAYBE AFTER THE FIRST
OF THE YEAR. LET ME DO SOME
RESEARCH WITH SOME OF OUR
MEMBERS ON THE PARTICULAR ON
THAT SELF CHECKOUT PIECE.
APPRECIATE THAT. THANK YOU.
ASSEMBLYMEMBER'S PETRIE-NORRIS.
THANKS, MR CHAIR, A COUPLE OF
ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS AROUND
AROUND DATA. SO UM, YES, MR
CRUSH CHECK. I THINK YOU SAID
THAT CALIFORNIA'S LOST NUMBERS
ARE THE WORST IN THE NATION. UM
I DIDN'T SAY THE WORST IN THE
NATION. I JUST SAID THEY'RE VERY
HIGH IN THAT CALIFORNIA IS HAS
BECOME ONE OF THE MOST DIFFICULT
PLACES FOR RETAILERS TO OPERATE.
I DIDN'T SAY CALIFORNIA IS A
TERRIBLE PLACE AND I, BUT I
THINK YOU DID SHARE SOME
EXAMPLES. I THINK THAT IN ORDER
FOR US TO ACTUALLY CRAFT THE
RIGHT POLICY. IT'S SO IMPORTANT
FOR US TO UNDERSTAND. WHERE IS
THIS? A CALIFORNIA PROBLEM? AND
WHERE IS THIS A NATIONWIDE
PROBLEM SO AGAIN TO THE POINT OF
DATA IF YOU HAVE DATA THAT CAN
SHOW LOSS RATES. FOR EVERY STATE
IN THE COUNTRY. THAT'S REALLY,
REALLY IMPORTANT INFORMATION FOR
US, AND I THINK THAT'S ACTUALLY
REALLY IMPORTANT. JUST FACT FOR
ALL OF US TO HAVE AS WE KIND OF
DEVELOP AND THEN INTERROGATE
HYPOTHESES, SO I DON'T KNOW IF
YOU'VE GOT THAT INFORMATION OR
IF THAT'S ME, YOU CAN SHARE. OF
COURSE I DON'T HAVE THE
RETAILERS DON'T SHARE IT. AS AS
MY COLLEAGUES STATED, THE
RETAILERS ARE RELUCTANT TO GIVE
YOU ANY INFORMATION. SO
UNFORTUNATELY, MY DATA IS MORE
BOOTS ON THE GROUND. 3 FT, NOT
35,000 SQUARE 35,000 FT IN THE
AIR. MY DATA IS STORES CLOSING.
RETAILERS NOT BEING ABLE TO HIRE
RETAILERS LOCKING UP THEIR
MERCHANDISE. CONSUMERS FACING
MORE FRICTION IN SHOPPING AND
HAVING ALTERNATIVES TO GO TO
CONSUMERS WHO TELL US THEY DON'T
FEEL SAFE GOING OUT. THESE ARE
NOT DATA POINTS IN PERCENTAGES
AND DECIMALS. THESE ARE DATA
POINTS IN HOW YOUR CONSTITUENTS
BEHAVE. THAT'S THE DATA THAT WE
TRACK. WE WATCH HOW PEOPLE COME
TO OUR SHOPPING CENTERS. WHAT
THEY DO WHAT THEY TELL US WHEN
THEY'RE THERE WITH THE RETAILERS
TELL US ABOUT STORE TRAFFIC,
WHETHER THEY LOCK THEIR
DETERGENT UP. THAT'S THE DATA WE
TRACK. AND I SEE ALL OF THOSE
THINGS HAPPENING IN CALIFORNIA,
MY CONSTITUENCY. ALL THOSE
THINGS HAPPEN IN OUR COMMUNITY.
THAT'S WHY THEY'RE FED UP WITH
IT. RIGHT. SO THAT'S WHY WE'RE
HERE. BUT ARE THOSE TRENDS?
UNIQUE TO WHAT WE'RE TO THE
CALIFORNIA EXPERIENCE FOR
RETAILERS. ARE ARE WE? BECAUSE
I'VE HEARD FROM OTHER SPEAK?
I'VE HEARD FROM SOME NATIONAL
RETAILERS THAT THIS IS SOMETHING
THAT THEY'RE SEEING NATIONWIDE
FROM OTHERS THAT IT'S NOT. SO I
THINK UNDERSTANDING ARE THOSE
TRENDS, AND PERHAPS IT'S SOME OF
THOSE, UM MORE QUALITATIVE
MEASURES. REALLY AND TRULY WE,
THE ONLY STATE WHERE THIS IS
HAPPENING. CALIFORNIA IS NOT THE
ONLY STATE WHERE THIS IS
HAPPENING. I THINK IT'S BEEN
WIDELY PUBLICIZED WHAT'S
HAPPENING IN PLACES LIKE NEW
YORK AND CHICAGO, TEXAS IS VERY
DIFFERENT. I CAN TELL YOU THAT
IN THE WESTERN REGION, WE ALSO
HAVE PROPERTY IN ARIZONA. WE
DON'T SEE THESE SIMILAR TYPES OF
THINGS TO THE EXTENT THAT WE SEE
THEM IN CALIFORNIA. SO IT'S NOT
UNIQUE TO CALIFORNIA. CALIFORNIA
IS NOT THE ONLY STATE IN THE
COUNTRY THAT'S HAVING THIS
PROBLEM, BUT IT IS UNIQUELY
PRONOUNCED IN IN CERTAIN PARTS
OF CALIFORNIA. OKAY. AND I
AGREE, BUT I THINK THE MORE WE
COULD HAVE DATA. I WISH I COULD
GIVE YOU THE DATA I IN PREPARING
TO COME HERE TODAY. I TALKED TO
15 RETAILERS AND SAID, I NEED
DATA. I NEED NUMBERS. AND THEY
SAID OH, WELL, WE CAN'T GIVE YOU
NUMBERS AND NOTICE I DIDN'T USE
OTHER THAN THE PUBLIC ARTICLE
ABOUT TARGET. I DIDN'T USE ANY
RETAILERS NAMES. THEY DON'T WANT
THAT IN THE PUBLIC FOR WHATEVER
REASON, AND I REALIZED THAT
MAKES YOUR JOB HARDER TO HELP
THEM IF THEY WON'T HELP
THEMSELVES. I'M ACUTELY AWARE OF
THAT. BUT THE REALITY OF IT IS
YOU'RE STARTING TO SEE IT NOW
SHOW UP IN STORE CLOSURES, AND
THAT'S GOING TO BE A BIG PROBLEM
FOR THESE COMMUNITIES. 100%
AGREE. I MEAN THE HALLOWEEN AT
OF OUR RETAIL AND COMMERCIAL
CORRIDORS IS NOT JUST TERRIBLE
FOR GO WALK DOWN K STREET,
ENTIRE COMMUNITY. UM AGREED.
OKAY QUICK QUESTION. ANOTHER
FOLLOW UP ON DATA AND KIND OF
PICKING UP TO, UM, THE POINT
THAT ASSEMBLYMEMBER'S ORTEGA
RAISE. I THINK IF WE IF THIS
COMMITTEE CAN GET SOME DATA ON
THE GROWTH OF, UH, ONLINE
MARKETPLACES OVER THE LAST FIVE
YEARS, I THINK THAT'S ALSO
ANOTHER REALLY, REALLY, REALLY
IMPORTANT PIECE. IN MY OPENING
COMMENTS. ONE OF THE THINGS
WE'RE GONNA BE LOOKING AT IS
ONLINE RETAILERS AND ONE OF THE
FOLLOWING HEARINGS, SO THAT'S
DEFINITELY SOMETHING WE'RE GONNA
DO REMEMBER PHªN I THINK IT WAS
A CHAIR. I'D BE REMISS NOT TO
ASK FOR RETAILERS. I KNOW WE'VE
BEEN FOCUSING A LOT ON THE WHAT
HAPPENS IN THE STORE, BUT RETAIL
CRIME EXISTS IN THE STORE AND
CARGO THEFT AND I'M PORCH
PIRATES AND AS WE PUSH PEOPLE AS
IF THEY DON'T FEEL SAFE GOING TO
THE STORE. THEY'RE BUYING THINGS
ONLINE AS MENTIONED EARLIER, AND
OF COURSE, IT GETS DELIVERED TO
THEIR PORCH AND THEN IT GETS
STOLEN. UM OR THEY DISRUPTED
SUPPLY CHAIN AND THEY STEAL
THINGS. UM, UH THROUGH ON TRAINS
AND ON OF TRUCKS. SO UH, IF I
COULD ASK RETAILERS, COULD YOU
JUST PIECE IT ALL TOGETHER? WHEN
WE TALK ABOUT RETAIL THEFT?
WE'RE NOT TALKING JUST ABOUT THE
STORE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. THE
PORCH AS WELL AS A CARGO.
CORRECT AND I THINK YOU HAVE TO
DIVIDE IT UP A LITTLE BIT. I
WOULD SAY, YOU KNOW THE PORCH
PIRACY IS MORE I WOULD PUT IN
THE BUCKET OF MORE SHOPLIFTING.
WHEN YOU GET INTO THE CARGO
THEFT. THAT'S WHEN YOU MOVE INTO
THE ORGANIZED RETAIL CRIME
STATUTE, WHICH IS WHY WE'RE
GOING TO BE PUSHING VERY HARD
AND HOPEFULLY WORKING WITH ALL
OF YOU ON 4 90.4 AND MAKING SOME
OF THOSE CHANGES. CARGO THEFT IS
NOT ADDRESSED IN THE ORGANIZED
RETAIL CRIME STATUTE, AND I
THINK IT SHOULD BE BUT THAT'S
ALSO HAVING AN IMPACT, YOU KNOW,
AND IT'S CRAZY WHEN YOU I
REMEMBER A COUPLE YEARS AGO, YOU
MIGHT RECALL THE GOVERNOR WENT
DOWN TO L. A. AND WITH THE
TRAINS AND ALL THAT, AND I
REMEMBER CALLING PEOPLE AND
THEY'RE THEY'RE THEY LAUGHED AT
ME. WHAT DO YOU MEAN? RACHEL
PEOPLE ARE JUMPING ON THE TRAINS
AND STEALING. I'M LIKE, YEAH,
THAT IS WHAT IS GOING ON. AND
WHAT'S UNFORTUNATE, THOUGH, IS
THE PEOPLE THAT ARE STEALING.
ARE THE VULNERABLE POPULATIONS
THAT THE ORGANIZED CRIME RAINS
ARE USING AND RE VICTIMIZING.
AND SO THAT GOES BACK TO THE
POINT AT HOW DO WE UTILIZE
RETAIL THEFT IS AN INTERVENTION
POINT TO GET THESE INDIVIDUALS
WHO NEED HELP INTO PROGRAMS?
BECAUSE YOU CAN'T FORCE PEOPLE
INTO PROGRAMS? YOU CAN'T FORCE
PEOPLE INTO A MENTAL HEALTH
PROGRAM. YOU CAN'T FORCE PEOPLE
INTO DRUG TREATMENT PROGRAM. BUT
YOU CAN DO THAT IF WE HAVE AN
INTERVENTION POINT WHERE
INDIVIDUALS HAVE TO MAKE A
CHOICE. YOU GO INTO, YOU KNOW,
SERVE TIME IN JAIL, OR YOU'RE
GONNA GO INTO A DIVERSION
PROGRAM. AND SO I THINK THAT IT
ALL FITS TOGETHER. AND I THINK
WE HAVE TO LOOK AT IT COHESIVELY
BECAUSE IT'S ALL HAVING AN
IMPACT, AND IT'S IMPACTING
PEOPLE COMING INTO WORK FOR THE
INDUSTRY. OUR TRANSPORTATION,
OUR GOODS MOVEMENT, OUR
WAREHOUSING, UM YOU KNOW UNITS
AND THEN ULTIMATELY TO THE
STORES AND TWO NOW TO A
CONSUMER'S DOORSTEP. I
APPRECIATE THAT, AND I THINK
THAT'S WHAT'S IMPORTANT IS THE
SOLUTIONS YOU OUTLINED ABOUT
TARGETING REPEAT OFFENDERS AND
AGGREGATION. IT'S IMPORTANT IN
THE RETAIL SPACE AND THE CARGO
THEFT SPACE. AND WHEN IT COMES
TO PORCH PIRATES, THANK YOU VERY
MUCH. I'LL JUST I'LL JUST HAVE
ONE SORT OF SORT OF QUESTION AND
COMMENTS. SO YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY
, I'VE BEEN TALKING TO A LOT OF
THE RETAILERS, SMALL BUSINESSES.
UM SOME OF THE LOCAL ENFORCEMENT
, UH, FOLKS, AND YOU KNOW, IT
FEELS LIKE A LOT OF FOLKS ARE
POINTING FINGERS AT EACH OTHER.
UM, THE RETAILERS. UM FOLKS ARE
YOU KNOW, COMPLAINING? THE
RETAILERS AREN'T REPORTING
ENOUGH THAT THEY BASICALLY DON'T
DO ANYTHING. UM, THAT WHEN
SOMEONE COMES INTO THE STORE,
THEY'RE JUST LETTING SOME OF THE
ENFORCEMENT FOLKS SAY THEY'RE
JUST LETTING THEM WALK OUT. NOT
UNDERSTANDING THAT THEY'RE
TRYING TO MAKE SURE THAT THEIR
EMPLOYEES ARE SAFE AND THEY'RE
NOT ASKING THERE'S EMPLOYEES TO
INTERVENE. THEN WHEN I ASK FOLKS
FROM THE, UM ENFORCEMENT FOLKS
WHETHER THEY'RE PROSECUTING AT
THE MISDEMEANOR LEVEL, THEY
BASICALLY SAY THAT THEY DON'T
END UP HAVING ANYTHING TO
PROSECUTE THAT THERE'S NOT A
THING THAT THAT'S BEING BROUGHT
TO THEM. UM AND THEN WE'VE GOT
OTHER FOLKS WHO HAVE HEARD THE
STORIES AT LEAST IN ONE
JURISDICTION WHERE RETAILERS WHO
ARE REPORTING THINGS THAT ARE
NOT BEING UH, YOU KNOW WHEN
THEY'VE CALLED, ARE ACTUALLY
BEING CRITICIZED FOR OVER OVER
REPORTING AND ACTUALLY BEING
ACCUSED OF BEING A NUISANCE,
WHICH I WAS REALLY SURPRISED BY.
I GUESS THAT IS THE ACTUALLY THE
GENESIS OF MY LAST QUESTION,
WHICH IS ARE YOU FINDING THOSE
KINDS OF ISSUES MORE THAN IN THE
JURISDICTION THAT WE'VE HEARD
THE STORIES ABOUT? UM, IS THAT
SOMETHING WHERE PEOPLE ARE BEING
WHERE RETAILERS ARE ACTUALLY
BEING DISCOURAGED FROM REPORTING
AND MORE THAN THIS ONE
JURISDICTION AND THE OTHER PART
IS THAT WE'LL HAVE I HAVE
ANOTHER MEMBER COMPANY IN IN THE
BAY AREA WHO HAD RETAILER IN
THEIR EMPLOYEE WAITED AND
WAITED, AND LAW ENFORCEMENT
DIDN'T DIDN'T SHOW UP. YOU KNOW,
WE DEAL WITH WE HAVE A GROUP OF
RETAILERS ARE TRYING TO WORK
WITH IN A CERTAIN CITY. WHERE
YEAH, THAT'S THAT'S PART OF THE
PROBLEM. THEY AND I THINK PART
OF IT, IS IT THIS PROBLEM HAS
GOTTEN SO BIG IT'S ALMOST OKAY.
HOW DO WE SOLVE IT? AND THAT'S
WHY I THINK WE HAVE TO LOOK AT
DIFFERENT PIECES AND TAKE IT
STEP BY STEP. WHAT IS THE MOST
PRESSING THING THAT WE CAN DO
NOW? HOW DO WE STOP THE REPEAT
OFFENDERS? HOW DO WE PROVIDE THE
CONSEQUENCES? I TELL MY MEMBERS.
THIS IS A MARATHON, NOT A
SPRINT. RIGHT. WE'RE NOT GOING
TO SOLVE EVERYTHING OVERNIGHT,
BUT WE HAVE TO START MAKING WE
NEEDED DISRUPTER TO AT LEAST
START DISRUPTING THE BEHAVIOR.
AND I THINK WE ALL HAVE TO HAVE
ACCOUNTABILITY. YOU KNOW,
RETAILERS WE HAVE TO TAKE
ACCOUNTABILITY. LAW ENFORCEMENT
D A S. CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS,
COUNTY SUPERVISORS, LEGISLATORS,
THE GOVERNOR. WE ALL HAVE TO
WORK COLLABORATIVELY TO FIND
SOLUTIONS BECAUSE YOU'RE
ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. I FEEL LIKE
WE'RE ON THIS MERRY GO ROUND AND
WE KEEP POINTING FINGERS, BUT
I'M WILLING AND ABLE TO WORK
WITH ANYONE WHO WANTS TO WORK
WITH US, INCLUDING PEOPLE. WE
DON'T ALWAYS WORK WITH ALL THE
TIME TO FIND SOLUTIONS BECAUSE
IT'S TOO IMPORTANT. AND YOU KNOW
AGAIN, I GO BACK TO YOU KNOW, WE
WERE ABLE TO REMOVE OUR
OPPOSITION TO SB 553 BECAUSE WE
WANT SAFE WORK ENVIRONMENTS FOR
OUR EMPLOYEES, AND WE WENT A
SAFE SHOPPING CENTER EXPERIENCE
FOR OUR CUSTOMERS. BUT WE HAVE
TO WORK COLLABORATIVELY. AND
WHILE I UNDERSTAND THAT
EVERYONE'S VERY FOCUSED ON DATA
THE REALITY IS THAT'S NOT THE
PERCEPTION OF WHAT'S HAPPENING
IN CALIFORNIA. I BET YOU EVERY
ONE OF YOU CAN TELL A RETAIL
THEFT STORY. I GET ON A ZOOM
CALL TO TALK ABOUT ENVIRONMENTAL
SUSTAINABILITY, AND IT STARTS
WITH. LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT
SOMEONE I JUST SAW STEALING IN
THE STORE. YOU KNOW, I HAVE TO
TACK ON TIME BECAUSE EVERYONE IS
SEEING IT. AND I THINK WE'RE
LOOKING TO YOU FOR YOUR HELP AND
PARTNERSHIP ON FINDING
SOLUTIONS. I WOULD. I MEAN, I'M
NOT SOMEONE WHO BELIEVES THAT
SHOPLIFTING HAS GONE DOWN. I
MEAN, JUST FROM TALKING TO
RETAILERS. DOING WHAT EXPERIENCE
YOU KNOW THE FACT WHEN YOU WALK
INTO A STORE, AND MORE AND MORE
OF THE STORES IS LOCKED UP. I
THINK THAT IS THAT'S DATA THAT
WE NEED TO BE PAYING ATTENTION
TO. ON THE OTHER HAND, I ALSO AM
CIRCUMSPECT OF CALLS FOR, YOU
KNOW, PULLING BACK ON PROP 47
AND LOOKING AT THE $950 BECAUSE
I DO THINK IT'S MORE ABOUT
MAKING SURE THAT THERE'S A
CONSEQUENCE YOU KNOW WHEN WE
TALK ABOUT TRAFFIC ENFORCEMENT
OF TRAFFIC LAWS, WE DON'T PUT
EVERYONE IN PRISON FOR MINOR
INFRACTIONS OF TRAFFIC LAWS, BUT
WE HAVE A SYSTEM IN PLACE THAT
RESULTS IN A RELATIVELY HIGH
CHANCE OF US HAVING A
CONSEQUENCE AND SOMETHING
HAPPENING. SO I'M HOPEFUL THAT
IN FUTURE HEARINGS, WE CAN THINK
ABOUT SOME OF THE DIVERSION
PROGRAMS SOME OF THE THINGS THAT
I THINK YOU SUGGESTED IN
SUGGESTING A TRAFFIC SCHOOL BUT
THEN UNDERSTANDING WHAT HAPPENS
IF SOMEONE DOESN'T GO TO THE
TRAFFIC SCHOOL, RIGHT? SO I
THINK WE NEED TO THINK THESE
THINGS THROUGH BUT I DO THINK
THAT WE SHOULD BE THINKING
ABOUT, YOU KNOW, SMART SOLUTIONS
TO THESE THINGS, AND SOME OUT OF
THE BOX THINKING THAT WE HAVEN'T
THOUGHT ABOUT BEFORE. SO WITH
THAT, UM I DON'T SEE ANYONE ELSE
. YOU WANT TO MAKE ONE LESS
COMMENT. JUST MAKE SOME COMMENTS
FOR SOME CLARITY. SO, LIKE THE
TRAFFIC ISSUE THAT WE'RE TALKING
ABOUT. ENFORCEMENT I THINK WE
ALL KNOW THAT WITH ME, UH, WHEN
YOU GET PULLED OVER BY BY
TRAFFIC OFFICER THAT'S A
MISDEMEANOR THAT THEY ARE
OBSERVING. THEY ARE SEEING
FIRSTHAND, SO THAT'S WHY THEY'RE
ABLE TO GIVE THAT TICKET,
WHEREAS WE'RE TRYING TO COMPARE
IT TO PETTY THEFT THAT'S
HAPPENING OR THAT GRANT THAT NO,
NOT THE GRAPH THAT BUT THE PETTY
THEFT. IT'S NOT IN THE PRESENCE
HAS BROUGHT UP EARLIER IN OUR IN
OUR FIRST PANEL, SO THAT'S
THAT'S THE OTHER THING THAT WE
ALSO NEED TO THINK ABOUT. I KNOW
ONE OF MY COLLEAGUES HERE WHO'S
NOT HERE RIGHT NOW, BUT WAS WAS
TALKING ABOUT WHY THE
SHOPLIFTING IS DOWN. AND THAT'S
BECAUSE IT'S NOT REALLY A CRIME
ANYMORE. THAT'S BEING REPORTED
BEING UNDER REPORTED AS WAS
BROUGHT UP. SO THAT'S THOSE ARE
OTHER THINGS THAT WE NEED TO
LOOK AT. WHEN WE'RE TRYING TO
DISCUSS THE DATA. THAT THERE'S
REASONS THAT THE DATA IS SO LOW
IS BECAUSE IT'S NOT BEING
REPORTED. IT'S NOT. IT'S NOT
SOMETHING WE'RE CAPTURING, AND
ALSO ANOTHER THING THAT'S GOING
ON THAT LITTLE HOOVER
COMMISSION. IF YOU GUYS MOST OF
US KNOW HERE, ALSO. OBVIOUSLY
THERE'S A STUDY GOING ON THERE.
SO I'M HOPING WITH THAT WE ARE
GOING TO HAVE SOME OF THAT DATA
THAT THAT WE WANT, BECAUSE
OBVIOUSLY, DATA IS A BIG THING.
AND THAT'S SOMETHING I LEARNED
IN MY FIRST YEAR COMING UP HERE
THAT HEY, WE NEED TO GET THE
DATA. SO I'M THANKFUL THAT
THEY'RE DOING THAT AS WELL.
THAT'S ALL I NEED TO SAY. THANK
YOU. CHAIR. THANK YOU. MR
DELANEY'S OKAY WITH THAT WOULD I
WANT TO THANK THE MEMBERS OF THE
PANEL FOR SPENDING SO MUCH TIME
TODAY REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR
FOCUS ON THIS AND HELPING US
TODAY. SO THANK YOU. WE CAN
BRING THE NEXT PANEL UP.
WELCOME IT'S A LONG AFTERNOON
LAST BUT NOT LEAST, I'D LIKE TO
WELCOME OUR THIRD PANEL, WHICH
WILL FEATURE PERSPECTIVES FROM
LAW ENFORCEMENT AND CRIMINAL
JUSTICE REFORM ADVOCATES,
INCLUDING THE ORGANIZATIONAL
SPONSOR, PROP 47. WE'RE GRATEFUL
TODAY TO BE JOINED BY LYNN ORAL
ANDERSON FROM CALIFORNIA'S FOR
SAFETY AND JUSTICE. I VB
FITZPATRICK FROM THE RIVERSIDE
COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S
OFFICE AND ON BEHALF OF THE
CALIFORNIA DISTRICT ATTORNEYS
ASSOCIATION. CHRISTINE SODA
DEBERRY FROM THE PROSECUTOR'S
ALLIANCE OF CALIFORNIA AND CHIEF
ALEXANDER GAMBLE GUARD FROM THE
CALIFORNIA POLICE CHIEFS
ASSOCIATION. WELCOME UM YOU EACH
HAVE SIX MINUTES TODAY. UM, MISS
ANDERSON, PLEASE PROCEED WHEN
YOU'RE READY. FIRES PROPOSITION
47. AND THEN I'LL TALK ABOUT THE
PURPOSE AND SCOPE OF THE
MEASURE. NEXT I'LL DISCUSS THE
CHALLENGES AND MECHANISMS FOR
ADDRESSING RETAIL THEFT, AND
FINALLY ALL OUTLINED SOME
PROPOSED SOLUTIONS TO STOP
CHRONIC CRIME CYCLES. FIRST IT'S
IMPORTANT TO GROUND OURSELVES IN
THE HISTORY. THE HISTORY OF MASS
INCARCERATION IN CALIFORNIA GREW
DYSFUNCTIONAL BUREAUCRACIES THAT
HAD FEW INCENTIVES TO
EFFECTIVELY STOP. AH CRIME
CYCLES. CALIFORNIA VOTERS
OVERWHELMINGLY ENACTED PROP 47
IN 2014 IN RESPONSE TO YEARS OF
EXTREME OVERCROWDING AND STATE
PRISONS AND GAPS IN CRIME
PREVENTION. FOR DECADES,
CALIFORNIA LED THE NATION WITH
STAGGERING INCARCERATION RATES
IN PRISON SPENDING. THE STATE
ALSO PASSED EXTREME SENTENCING
LAWS AND GREW THE SIZE AND ROLE
OF CRIMINAL JUSTICE
BUREAUCRACIES AS THE SIZE AND
ROLE OF CRIMINAL JUSTICE.
BUREAUCRACIES GREW, ARREST AND
INCARCERATION BECAME THE ONE
SIZE FITS ALL RESPONSE TO ALL
KINDS OF SOCIAL ILLS, FROM
HOMELESSNESS TO MENTAL ILLNESS,
DRUGS AND MORE. DESPITE THE
JUSTICE SYSTEM, BEING ILL
EQUIPPED TO ADDRESS THESE
PROBLEMS. BUREAUCRACY IS QUICKLY
BECAME OVERWHELMED WITH THE
SHEER VOLUME OF INCOMING. IT WAS
IN THIS CONTEXT THAT
BUREAUCRATIC PRIORITIES WERE
ESTABLISHED. MOST OF THOSE
PRIORITIES REVOLVED AROUND
INCREASING ARRESTS AND
PROSECUTIONS FOR WHAT WAS
EASIEST TO PROCESS CASES QUICKLY
AND INCARCERATION IN STATE
PRISONS TO MOVE PROBLEMS OUT OF
STATES HANDS. THERE WAS LITTLE
OVERSIGHT. THERE WAS LITTLE DATA
DRIVEN DECISION MAKING
INTERAGENCY COORDINATION OR
COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT. THIS
APPROACH LED TO A CRISIS,
EXTREME RACIAL DISPARITIES AND
STATE PRISON OVERCROWDING ONE
PERSON DYING PER WEEK AS A
RESULT OF MEDICAL NEGLECT AND
PEOPLE LANGUISHING IN PRISON FOR
FAR LONGER THAN NECESSARY FOR
PUBLIC SAFETY. ON TOP OF THAT
RECIDIVISM RATES WERE ABYSMAL,
WITH THREE OUT OF FOUR PEOPLE
RETURNING AFTER RELEASE. THE
PURPOSE OF PROPOSITION 47 WAS TO
REDUCE THE USE OF STATE PER
IMPRISONMENT FOR LOW LEVEL
OFFENSES AND REALLOCATE STATE
PRISON SPENDING. TOWARDS LOCAL
SAFETY PROGRAMS. THE MEASURE HAS
BEEN SUCCESSFUL IN ACHIEVING
THAT THE DETAILS, AS WAS ALREADY
DISCUSSED TODAY INCLUDE IT
RECLASSIFIED SIX LOW LEVEL
OFFENSES FROM FELONIES TO
MISDEMEANORS. NOTHING WAS
DECRIMINALIZED OR LEGALIZED
CRIMINAL LAWS IN CALIFORNIA CAN
BE EITHER INFRACTIONS
MISDEMEANORS, WHICH ARE
PUNISHABLE WITH COUNTY JAIL OR
FELONIES, WHICH ARE THE MOST
SERIOUS. THE MEASURE ALSO
REQUIRES THE STATE TO ANNUALLY
CALCULATE PRISON COST SAVINGS
GENERATED 65% OF THE MONEY
ALLOCATED THROUGH THIS MEASURE
GOES TO THE BOARD OF STATE AND
COMMUNITY CORRECTIONS, WHO
PROVIDES GRANTS FOR PROGRAMS
RANGING FROM MENTAL HEALTH
DIVERSION TO SUBSTANCE USE
DISORDER TREATMENT, BEHAVIORAL
HEALTH TREATMENT, REENTRY AND
MORE. THE MEASURE HAS HELPED
REDUCED STATE IMPRISONMENT SUCH
THAT THE PRISON CRISIS IN
CALIFORNIA HAS BEEN ABATED, AND
THE STATE IS NO LONGER FACING
FEDERAL PRISON CROWDING MANDATE
VIOLATIONS OR CHRONICALLY
ENDANGERING STAFF AND RESIDENTS
IN THE PRISONS. WHAT'S MORE,
OVER $750 MILLION HAS BEEN RE
ALLOCATED TO LOCAL SAFETY
PROGRAMS UNDER PROPOSITION 47.
THE BOARD OF STATE AND COMMUNITY
CORRECTIONS EVALUATES THE
EFFECTIVENESS OF THESE PROGRAMS
AND HAS FOUND LOWER RECIDIVISM
RATES. HIGHER EMPLOYMENT RATES,
LOWER RATES OF HOMELESSNESS,
AMONG OTHER POSITIVE PUBLIC
SAFETY IMPACTS. THAT'S THE
ESSENCE OF WHAT PROPOSITION 47
WAS ABOUT. ADDRESSING
SOPHISTICATED RETAIL THEFT IS
URGENT AND IMPORTANT TO BE SURE.
AND IT REQUIRES THE FULL USE OF
EXISTING STATE LAWS FOR MOST OF
THE TIME THAT PROP 47 AND OTHER
JUSTICE REFORM MEASURES HAVE
BEEN RIGHT SIZING THE USE OF
PRISONS. CRIME RATES REMAINED AT
HISTORIC LOWS AFTER THE PANDEMIC
. WE'VE SEEN SOME SHIFTS.
RETAILERS DESERVE SAFETY. TO BE
SURE, AS YOU ALL CALIFORNIANS
THAT'S NOT UP FOR DEBATE. WOULD
ALSO SHOULDN'T BE UP FOR DEBATE
IS WHETHER OR NOT WE USE THE
FULL AUTHORITY OF EXISTING LAW
TO ADDRESS ANY SHIFTS THAT HAVE
COME ABOUT. THE RETAIL THEFT
ISSUES THAT PEOPLE ARE PRESENTLY
MOST CONCERNED ABOUT FROM SMASH
AND GRAB MOBS TO ORGANIZE RETAIL
THOUGHT CRIME ARE FELONY CONDUCT
. THESE CRIMES ARE NOT THE
PURVIEW OF PROPOSITION 47, AND
THE MEASURE DOES NOT STAND IN
THE WAY OF THE JUSTICE SYSTEM'S
ABILITY TO ADDRESS THEM. WHAT
DOES STAND IN THE WAY OF THE
JUSTICE SYSTEM'S ABILITY TO
EFFECTIVELY ADDRESS THEM ARE THE
BUREAUCRATIC PRIORITIES AND
PRACTICES THAT WERE ESTABLISHED
LONG AGO UNDER THE ERA OF MASS
INCARCERATION. HERE'S JUST A FEW
OF THOSE PRACTICES. THERE IS NO
TIMELY SHARING OF DAY OF CRUCIAL
DATA. JUSTICE AGENCIES DO NOT
PRIORITIZE SHARING INFORMATION
WITH ONE ANOTHER THAT WOULD
FACILITATE A QUICKER RESPONSE
AND A RESOLUTION TO RETAIL THEFT
CRIMES FAILURES TO APPEAR AND
CASE DISPOSITIONS ARE NOT
QUICKLY ENTERED INTO LAW
ENFORCEMENT DATA SYSTEMS. BENCH
WARRANTS ARE BACKLOGGED WITHOUT
ANY ACTION TAKING PLACE.
ENFORCEMENT DOESN'T KNOW THE
PERSON IN FRONT OF THEM HAS
NUMEROUS PRIORS. TWO FAILURES TO
APPEAR OR COURT ORDERED ARREST
WARRANTS ARE BEING IGNORED.
THAT'S A SHOCKING SYSTEM
BREAKDOWN. THERE'S BEEN A LITTLE
ABILITY FOR A LONG TIME FOR
CALIFORNIA'S JUSTICE SYSTEM TO
SOLVE MOST CRIME. MOST PEOPLE
DON'T REALIZE THAT PROPERTY
CRIME ESPECIALLY HAS NOT BEEN
PROSECUTED OR INVESTIGATED
EFFECTIVELY FOR GENERATIONS.
LESS THAN HALF OF ALL REPORTED
CRIME IS INVESTIGATED AND
PROSECUTED EFFECTIVELY. THAT'S
TRUE FOR VIOLENT AS WELL AS
PROPERTY CRIME. FOR EXAMPLE,
THEFT CASES THE CLEARANCE RATES,
WHICH MEANS THE RATE AT WHICH IT
WAS RESOLVED, UM, HAD A RECORD
LOW OF JUST 7% LAST YEAR, WITH
DECADES LONG TRENDS IN THE LESS
THAN 12% RESOLUTION RATE UP IN
30 SECONDS, OKAY. AND TO THE
EXTENT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT
MISDEMEANOR CONDUCT MISDEMEANORS
ARE CHRONICALLY DE PRIORITIZED
AT THE LOCAL LEVEL ENFORCEMENT
DOESN'T TAKE ACTION WHEN THEY
CAN AND COURTS DO NOT SWIFTLY
CALENDAR CASES WHEN THEY CAN. I
WANT TO JUST TAKE THE LAST
COUPLE OF SECONDS TO TALK ABOUT
SOLUTIONS. THERE ARE MANY THINGS
THAT CAN AND MUST BE DONE
IMMEDIATELY. FIRST FURTHER
REGULATION OF ONLINE MARKETPLACE
TO PREVENT THE RESALE OF STOLEN
GOODS. WE NEED TO IMPROVE CRIME
INVESTIGATIONS AND MAKE
MISDEMEANORS MEANINGFUL.
CIVILIAN INVESTIGATORS CAN HELP
ADDRESS THE LOCAL CLEARANCE
RATE, WHICH HAS BEEN IN PLACE
FOR DECADES. WE CAN BUILD
COMMUNITY TRUST AS WELL. WE ALSO
NEED TO ADDRESS THE BACKLOG IN
WARRANTS AND FAILURES TO APPEAR
IMPROVED MISDEMEANOR COURTROOM
PRACTICES, INCLUDING ACCELERATED
MISDEMEANOR COURTROOM DOCKETS
AND INVEST IMPORTANTLY IN THE
PROGRAMS THAT ARE WORKING
DIVERSION PROGRAMS, SUBSTANCE
USE, DISORDER, TREATMENT AND
MENTAL HEALTH PROGRAMS SHOULD
NOT BE ONLY THROUGH GRANT
PROGRAMS. THEY SHOULD BE THE
MAINSTREAM MAIN WAY THAT THE
JUSTICE SYSTEM OPERATES,
ESPECIALLY AT THE MISDEMEANOR
LEVEL. THANK YOU. THANK YOU VERY
MUCH. DID I V FITZPATRICK NEXT?
YES. THANK YOU. GOOD AFTERNOON.
TESTIFY BEFORE THIS COMMITTEE
TODAY. I'VE BEEN A PROSECUTOR
FOR 25 YEARS. UM IN THE LAST 15
YEARS HAVE BEEN WITH THE
RIVERSIDE COUNTY DA'S OFFICE. IN
THAT TIME I'VE SUPERVISED NEARLY
EVERY UNIT WITHIN OUR D A S
OFFICE HOMICIDE, SEXUAL ASSAULT,
CHILD ABUSE, BUT ALSO
MISDEMEANORS IN GENERAL
FELONIES, WHICH IS WHAT WE'RE
TALKING ABOUT TODAY. OVER THOSE
25 YEARS THAT I'VE BEEN DOING
THIS JOB. WE'VE HAD A LOT OF
CHANGES FOR SURE IN THE CRIMINAL
JUSTICE SYSTEM. BUT ONE OF THE
MOST POSITIVE CHANGES HAS BEEN
AN INCREASED FOCUS ON
INCENTIVIZING TREATMENT. AND ON
COLLABORATIVE COURTS. WE TAKE A
COLLABORATIVE APPROACH TO
JUSTICE IN THOSE COURTS, AND
THEY CAN BE VERY SUCCESSFUL.
CURRENTLY I OVERSEE THOSE
EFFORTS AS THE SUPERVISOR OF OUR
MENTAL HEALTH AND COLLABORATIVE
COURTS UNITS IN RIVERSIDE
COUNTY. WE WORK WITH OUR JUSTICE
PARTNERS, AND THOSE PROGRAMS ON
TREATMENT FOCUSED ALTERNATIVES
TO SENTENCING. THAT INCLUDES
MENTAL HEALTH COURT. VETERANS
COURT. DRUG COURT AND OUR MOST
RECENT ONE IS THE HOMELESS
COURT. I'VE SEEN AMAZING SUCCESS
WITH THESE PROGRAMS. AND I WANT
TO TELL YOU ABOUT ONE SUCCESS IN
PARTICULAR BECAUSE I THINK IT
KIND OF EPITOMIZES WHAT WE'RE
TALKING ABOUT HERE. AND THE
POWER OF THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE
SYSTEM WHEN SUPPLIED WITH THE
RIGHT TOOLS TO INCENTIVIZE
TREATMENT. AND MAKE PROFOUND
LIFE CHANGING OUTCOMES FOR THE
DEFENDANTS. SO I'M GONNA TALK
ABOUT JENNIFER. I MET JENNIFER
WHEN SHE WAS A DEFENDANT IN DRUG
COURT OVER A DECADE AGO. SHE WAS
ADDICTED TO METH AND HAD RUN UP
A LONG RAP SHEET OF DRUG CRIMES.
AS WELL AS THE ASSOCIATED THEFT
CRIMES THAT PAID FOR HER DRUG
ADDICTION. JENNIFER HAD BEEN
THROUGH DIVERSION, MISDEMEANOR
AND FELONY PROBATION AND HAD
LOST HER CHILDREN TO CPS. BUT
NONE OF THAT INCENTIVIZED HER TO
TREATMENT. EVENTUALLY SHE RACKED
UP SO MANY THEFTS THAT SHE WAS
FACING A PRISON SENTENCE BECAUSE
BACK THEN PROSECUTORS HAVE THE
DISCRETION TO CHARGE REPEAT
OFFENDERS WITH THE PRISON
ELIGIBLE FELONY. NOW THAT SHE
WAS FACING A FIVE YEAR SUSPENDED
PRISON SENTENCE, JENNIFER WAS
INCENTIVIZED TO ENTER OUR DRUG
COURT PROGRAM. AND TO WORK THAT
PROGRAM LONG ENOUGH FOR IT TO
TAKE HOLD. SEEING THE POSITIVE
CHANGES THEN THAT CAME AFTER
THAT TIME SHE WANTED TO CONTINUE
THE PROGRAM. TELL. EVENTUALLY
SHE GRADUATED FROM DRUG COURT
PROGRAM AND, LIKE ALL PEOPLE WHO
COMPLETE THE DRUG WORK PROGRAM
AT HER FELONIES, REDUCED TO
MISDEMEANORS AND EXPUNGED FROM
HER RECORD. 12. YEARS LATER,
JENNIFER HAS HER MASTER'S DEGREE
IN ADDICTION COUNSELING. SHE'S A
LICENSED CLINICIAN. SHE'S A
HOMEOWNER, A MOTHER OF HER FOUR
CHILDREN, AND SHE'S A CASE
MANAGER IN THE DRUG COURT
PROGRAM IN WASHINGTON STATE
WHERE SHE LIVES. JENNIFER AND I
HAVE KEPT IN TOUCH THROUGH THE
YEARS AND SHE HAS TOLD ME MANY
TIMES. THAT IT WAS THE PRISON
ELIGIBILITY FOR HER REPEAT
OFFENSES THAT FINALLY
INCENTIVIZED HER INTO TREATMENT.
AND WHAT IS MORE, SHE BELIEVES
THAT IF THE LAWS WERE AS THEY
ARE NOW SHE HIGHLY DOUBTS SHE
WOULD BE SOBER AND LIVING A
BEAUTIFUL LIFE SHE DOES TODAY
AND CONTRIBUTING TO SOCIETY IN
THE WAY SHE DOES THROUGH THE
DRUG COURT PROGRAM. BUT
JENNIFER'S HISTORY IS HONESTLY
HER CRIMINAL HISTORY IS NOT
UNCOMMON. OKAY. DRUG ADDICTS
STILL FUND THEIR ADDICTION WITH
THAT CRIMES TODAY. BUT WHAT'S
DIFFERENT TODAY? AND, YES,
PROSECUTORS ARE STILL CHARGING
THESE CRIMES. IS THAT THERE'S
VIRTUALLY NO REAL PENALTIES FOR
REPEAT OFFENDERS AND NO REAL
INCENTIVES TO ENTER TREATMENT.
TODAY DUE TO THE CHANGES BROUGHT
BY PROP 47 IN 2014, LEFT UNDER
950 IS ALMOST ALWAYS A
MISDEMEANOR. NO MATTER HOW MANY
TIMES YOU DO IT, THERE ARE
EXCEPTIONS, BUT IT'S ALMOST
ALWAYS A MISDEMEANOR. YES WE CAN
AGGREGATE OFFENSES TO OVER THE
950 LIMIT IF WE CAN SHOW A
COMMON PLAN OR SCHEME, BUT THAT
IS VERY DIFFICULT TO DO. AND
EVEN IF WE AGGREGATE AND CAN
CHARGE A FELONY, MOST REPEAT
OFFENDERS WILL SERVE LITTLE TO
NO TIME OF THEIR COUNTY JAIL
SENTENCE BECAUSE THE JAILS ARE
UNDER CONSENT DECREES. AND SO
OVERCROWDED DUE TO A V 109.
MAYBE 109 HAS NOT BEEN MENTIONED
TODAY. BUT IT IS CRITICAL TO
THIS CONVERSATION TO UNDERSTAND
WHAT IS GOING ON IN OUR LOCAL
COURTS, NOT JUST WHAT IS
PUNISHABLE BUT WHAT IS ACTUALLY
PUNISHED. IN 2011 A B ONE OR
NINE WAS ENACTED. IT MANDATED
THAT A VAST MAJORITY OF FELONIES
BE SERVED IN THE COUNTY JAIL, A
K A LOCAL PRISON. INSTEAD OF
STATE PRISON. RESULTING IN A
MASSIVE JAIL OVERCROWDING
PROBLEM. UM AND THIS GOES TO
ASSEMBLYMEMBER'S SZABO'S
QUESTION. THE PANEL AND SOME
QUESTIONS THAT WERE POSED TO
MISS O'NEIL, ALSO IN THE FIRST
PANEL. EVEN IF WE AGGREGATE. UM
IN OTHER WORDS, LIKE MANY WELL
INTENTIONED INITIATIVES AND
CHANGES IN THE LAW, AND EVEN IF
WE AGGREGATED AND WE COME TO A
FELONY THAT COMBINED EFFECT OF
PROP 47, AND MAYBE 109 HAS HAD A
MYRIAD OF UNINTENDED
CONSEQUENCES, INCLUDING THE
INABILITY TO ACTUALLY EFFECTUATE
THE SENTENCES THAT ARE LABELED
PUNISHABLE IN THE PENAL CODE. SO
WITH NO REAL CONSEQUENCES TO THE
REPEAT OFFENDERS. THERE'S
UNDERSTANDABLY BEEN ARISE AND
THEN OPENS THE NUMBER AND SCOPE
OF THEFT CRIMES IN CALIFORNIA.
AND WE TALKED ABOUT THAT. YOU
HEARD THE STATS AND I SEE
DEFENDANTS IN MY OWN COURTROOM
WITH 510, OR EVEN 20 MISDEMEANOR
THEFT AND DRUG CASES PENDING AT
ONE TIME, WITH NO ABILITY OF THE
COURT SYSTEM TO INCREASE
PENALTIES, OR INCENTIVIZING THEM
LIKE JENNIFER INTO CHANGING
THEIR BEHAVIOR OR GETTING
TREATMENT. AND EVEN IF YOU CAN
CHARGE THEM WITH A FELONY, THE
JAILS ARE SO OVERCROWDED THEY
WILL NOT SERVE THEIR TIME. THE
SAME PROBLEM APPLIES TO THE
RECENT LAUDABLE CHANGES TO
ORGANIZED RETAIL THEFT. BECAUSE
THOSE SENTENCES ARE ALSO MORE
SECONDS IN THE COUNTY JAILS.
THERE'S A HIGH LIKELIHOOD OF
EARLY RELEASE AND NO
DISINCENTIVES TO REOFFEND.
FINALLY PROP 47 HAD LAUDABLE
GOALS TO REDUCE THE PRISON
POPULATION AND INCENTIVIZED
TREATMENT IS THAT IT IS HEX
SUCCEEDED IN THE FORMER WHILE
FAILING AT THE LATTER. WITH NO
INCENTIVES TO ENTER TREATMENT AT
ITS SPIRAL FURTHER INTO THEIR
ADDICTION AND OFTEN BECOME
CHRONICALLY HOMELESS. AS
REPORTED RECENTLY, A 2020 PAPER
FROM THE NEW YORK BASED CENTER
FOR COURT INNOVATION FOUND
PARTICIPATION IN CALIFORNIA DRUG
COURTS IS DOWN 67. SINCE PROP 47
, AND THAT IS NOT SURPRISING TO
THOSE PROSECUTORS WHO PRACTICE
EVERY DAY. AT THAT SAME TIME,
HOMELESSNESS ROSE 42% IN
CALIFORNIA WHILE IT DROPPED 9%
NATIONWIDE. AND SO WHILE OUR
HOMELESS COURTS PROVIDE A PATH
TO TREATMENT FOR THOSE
INDIVIDUALS AND IT GIVES THEM
HOUSING WORK, EXPUNGEMENT OTHER
CONVICTIONS, IT'S EXCEPTIONALLY
DIFFICULT TO INCENTIVIZE THE
HOMELESS INTO THE PROGRAM, GIVEN
THE CURRENT STATE OF LAWS. I
THINK THE COMMITTEE THANK YOU
VERY MUCH. NEXT. I THINK WE HAVE
MISS SOTO DEBERRY. GOOD
AFTERNOON. IT'S A PLEASURE TO BE
HERE WITH ALL OF YOU TODAY. IF
YOU'RE NOT FAMILIAR WITH OUR
ORGANIZATION, THE PROSECUTORS
ALLIANCE IS A STATEWIDE
ORGANIZATION OF PROSECUTORS,
VICTIM ADVOCATES AND COMMUNITY
ALLIES WERE OVER 4000 MEMBERS
ACROSS MORE THAN 20 COUNTIES.
AND WE WERE COLLECTIVELY IN THE
COUNTIES AND HERE IN THE
LEGISLATURE TO PROMOTE SOLUTIONS
TO THE COMMUNITY SAFETY
CHALLENGES THAT WE SEE AROUND
THE STATE AND THIS ISSUE TODAY
IS A VERY IMPORTANT ONE TO US. I
COME TO THE WORK OF THE
PROSECUTOR'S ALLIANCE AFTER OVER
THREE DECADES IN CRIMINAL
JUSTICE ISSUES. I HAVE WORKED ON
THIS AS BOTH THE PUBLIC DEFENDER
AS A POLICY EXPERT AND A LOCAL
MAYOR'S OFFICE AND NOW AS A
PROSECUTOR AND RUNNING A
PROSECUTOR'S ORGANIZATION. IN
THAT TIME, I HAVE TACKLED THIS
ISSUE FROM MANY DIFFERENT ANGLES
, MANY OF WHICH HAVE BEEN
MENTIONED ON THIS PANEL AND
PRIOR PANELS AND THE THINGS THAT
I HAVE SEEN BE THE MOST
EFFECTIVE IN THE SPACE AND I WAS
THRILLED TO HEAR
ASSEMBLYMEMBER'S ORTEGA AND
OTHERS RAISE IS FOCUSING ON
UPSTREAM SOLUTIONS TO THE
PROBLEMS THAT WE'RE FACING. WE
CAN CERTAINLY CHASE ISSUE AFTER
ISSUE CASE AFTER CASE UNTIL WE
FALL AND COLLAPSE, THERE'S NO
DOUBT WE HAVE DONE THAT FOR
DECADES IN THIS STATE AND EVERY
STATE ACROSS THIS COUNTRY, BUT
IF WE WANT TO LOOK FOR SOLUTIONS
THAT ARE DURABLE AND END A
PARTICULAR TYPE OF CRIMINAL
ACTIVITY, WE HAVE TO LOOK AT
UPSTREAM SOLUTIONS. WE'VE
LEARNED THIS FROM THE DRUG TRADE
AND EVERYTHING ELSE IF WE FOCUS
AT THE VERY BOTTOM OF THE
PYRAMID. THE PYRAMID CONTINUES
TO STAND. SO WELL, PUNISHMENT
NEEDS TO BE PART OF THE
CONVERSATION. ACCOUNTABILITY
SHOULD BE ON THE TABLE AND PART
OF WHAT WE TALKED ABOUT. I THINK
THERE HAS BEEN EXPLICIT EXAMPLES
OF WHAT THOSE FRAMEWORKS CAN
LOOK LIKE. WE CIRCULATED TO ALL
OF YOU JUST SOME OF THE THEFT
CODE SECTIONS THAT CURRENTLY
EXIST IN LAW THAT CAN BE APPLIED
THAT PROSECUTORS AROUND THE
STATE ARE APPLYING TO THIS
PROBLEM. YOU HEARD AN EARLIER
TESTIMONY THAT IN PLACES LIKE
CURRENT COUNTY WHERE YOU HAVE
VERY LAW AND ORDER APPROACH TO
THE ISSUE, THE CRIME RATES ARE
VERY HIGH IN THIS REALM. UH SO
WHAT WE KNOW IS THAT PUNISHMENT
ALONE IS NOT GOING TO SOLVE THIS
PROBLEM. WE HAVE TO BE LOOKING
MORE CREATIVELY AT SOLUTIONS TO
REASON THAT RESULT IN REAL.
CHANGE. CHERBOURG YOU MENTIONED
THAT THE BIGGEST DETERRENCE IS
ACTUALLY THE FEAR OF GETTING
CAUGHT. THIS IS TRUE. THE
NATIONAL INSTITUTE FOR JUSTICE
HAS STUDIED THIS. THEY
UNDERSTAND WE ALL UNDERSTAND
SORT OF INTUITIVELY IF YOU STEP
BACK AND THINK ABOUT WHAT WOULD
KEEP US FROM CROSSING A LINE.
IT'S THE BELIEF THAT YOU'LL BE
CAUGHT. THAT IS THE THING THAT
MOST DETERS THE CRIMINAL
ACTIVITY. THE CHALLENGE WITH
RETAIL THEFT IS THAT THERE ARE
VERY FEW PEOPLE BEING CAUGHT FOR
THIS ACTIVITY AND THEREFORE VERY
FEW PEOPLE MAKING THEIR WAY TO
PROSECUTOR'S OFFICE IS TO HAVE
THE CONSEQUENCES THAT SOME ARE
CONTEMPLATING CHANGING IN THIS
REALM, SO ONE PLACE WE NEED TO
LOOK IS REALLY AT. HOW ARE WE
GOING TO RESPOND ON THE GROUND
IN THE STORES IN THOSE MOMENTS
TO ENSURE THAT THERE IS A THERE
IS AN ACTUAL APPREHENSION OF AN
INDIVIDUAL THAT CAN FACE A
PROSECUTION? BUT I THINK I WOULD
URGE US TO LOOK BIGGER PICTURE
PREVENTION THEIR EFFORTS
RETAILERS CAN TAKE TO HARDEN THE
TARGET. THEY CAN HAVE LOSS
PREVENTION OFFICERS. THEY CAN
HAVE ACTUAL STORE STAFF IN THEIR
FACILITIES. THOSE THINGS DO
DETER SOME OF THIS ACTIVITY,
NONE OF THESE THINGS IN AND OF
THEMSELVES OR A SOLUTION, BUT,
AS WAS SAID EARLIER, ALL OF US
WORKING TOGETHER
COLLABORATIVELY. LEANING IN
WHERE WE HAVE AUTHORITY AND
OPPORTUNITY MAKES A DIFFERENCE.
ADDITIONALLY I WOULD ENCOURAGE
US TO THINK ABOUT WAYS TO PUSH
LAW ENFORCEMENT TO DO HIGHER
IMPACT INVESTIGATIONS. WE'VE
SEEN SOME OF THAT WITH THE STATE
FUNDING THAT HAS COME AROUND.
WHEN I WAS IN THE SAN FRANCISCO
DÍAS OFFICE, WE RAN NUMEROUS
HIGH LEVEL INVESTIGATIONS AND WE
FOUND THEFT RINGS THAT SPREAD
FROM HAWAII TO TEXAS. UP AND
DOWN THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA. IT
TOOK US DEDICATED INVESTIGATION
LED BY OUR OFFICE WHERE WE
BROUGHT IN THE CHP. THIS IS
WHERE THE MODEL EMERGED OF
HAVING THE CHP RUN THESE
EFFORTS. AND WE HAVE REAL
RESULTS FROM THAT. WE SAW DROPS
IN THAT CRIME IN OUR
JURISDICTION AS A RESULT OF THAT
INVESTIGATION IN THOSE ARRESTS.
THE LEGISLATURE. YOU ALL HAVE AN
OPPORTUNITY TO ACT AND I THINK
IT'S WHY YOU'RE GATHERING HERE
NOW AND ASKING US TO COME BEFORE
YOU. YOU HAVE ALREADY PASSED
SOME GREAT TOOLS. MANY OF THE
CODE SECTIONS THAT YOU SEE ON
THE SHEET WE CIRCULATED AS A
RESULT OF ACTION TAKEN BY THIS
BODY, AND IN PREVIOUS YEARS,
2021. WE NOW HAVE MULTIPLE NEW
CODE SECTIONS ON THE BOOKS THAT
ENABLE US TO HAVE MORE
ACCOUNTABILITY IN THE
COURTROOMS. ADDITIONALLY YOU CAN
HELP US WITH THE DATA QUESTION.
YOU ALL ASKED. WE HAD A BILL
PASSED 2418 THAT IS JUST WAITING
ON FUNDING THAT WILL ALLOW US TO
COLLECT BETTER DATA FROM DÍAS
OFFICES AROUND THE STATE SO THAT
WE CAN ANSWER SOME OF THE
QUESTIONS YOU HAVE FOR US ABOUT
HOW THE CASES ARE BEING HANDLED.
WHAT KINDS OF CHARGES ARE PEOPLE
FACING? WHAT ARE THE
CONSEQUENCES FOR THE CHARGES
THAT THEY'RE FACING? WE ALSO HAD
A BILL THAT DIDN'T PASS A B 3 TO
7, WHICH WOULD HAVE REQUIRED LAW
ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES ARRESTING
AGENCIES TO SHARE THEIR DATA.
THESE ARE CRITICAL, FOUNDATIONAL
PIECES OF INFRASTRUCTURE. WE
NEED TO ANSWER THESE QUESTIONS
RESPONSIBLY. WE'D BE HAPPY TO
PARTNER WITH ANY OF ON LOOSE.
BUT IT WAS WE TALK HIGH LEVEL
ABOUT SHRINKING THE OPPORTUNITY,
BUT WE NEED TO DO HERE REALLY IS
SHRINK THE OPPORTUNITY TO RUN
INTO A STORE, GRABBED HUNDREDS
OF DOLLARS IN MERCHANDISE AND
RUN OUT. WE CAN USE A LAW
ENFORCEMENT APPROACH, BUT OUR
MOST VALUABLE TOOL WILL BE
SHUTTING DOWN THE SECONDARY
MARKETS FOR THESE GOODS. I'VE
DONE THIS BEFORE IN SAN
FRANCISCO. WE HAD AN ISSUE
AROUND THIS COUNTRY WAS
CELLPHONE ROBBERIES. WE WERE
BEING INUNDATED WITH CELLPHONE
ROBBERIES, AS WAS EVERY MAJOR
CITY AROUND THIS COUNTRY, AND WE
WERE PROSECUTING THOSE MOSTLY
ROBBERIES REPEATEDLY AS THEY
CAME TO US. BUT WILL WE ASKED
OURSELVES? IS THERE SOMETHING
ELSE WE CAN DO? CAN WE SECONDS
THANK YOU. CAN WE MAKE THE CELL
PHONE ESSENTIALLY A PAPERWEIGHT
THAT HAS NO VALUE ONCE YOU TAKE
IT AND INDEED WE DID THAT WE
INSTALLED A KILL SWITCH THAT
CRIME DROPPED BY 50% JUST ON THE
PASSAGE OF THAT BILL 50% FAR
MORE EFFECTIVE THAN ANYTHING. WE
COULD HAVE LEGISLATED WITH AN
INCREASED PUNISHMENT. WE'RE
DOING THE SAME NOW AND YOU ALL
ARE PASSING THESE BILLS AROUND
CATALYTIC CONVERTERS. RIGHT
WE'RE PUTTING ID NUMBERS ON
THEM. WE'RE CREATING A TRACEABLE
EVIDENCE SO THAT THOSE CRIMES
CAN'T COMMIT CONTINUE. RIGHT
NOW, WHEN YOU STILL 300 BOTTLES
OF DOVE SHAMPOO OR GUEST JEANS
OR WHATEVER THE ITEM IS, IT GOES
NOT INTO THAT INDIVIDUAL'S
PERSONAL WARDROBE. IT GOES
ONLINE. IT GOES TO SWAP MEETS.
WE NEED INVESTIGATIONS OF THOSE
THINGS, AND WE NEED STRICTER
REGULATION OF THOSE MARKETS. IF
I CAN GET VERIFIED FOR A BLUE
CHECK FOR WHAT KIND OF POST I
PUT UP WHY CANNOT AMAZON EBAY
AND EVERYBODY ELSE HAVE TO
VERIFY THAT THOSE ARE
LEGITIMATELY ACQUIRED GOODS THAT
THEY'RE SELLING ON THEIR
PLATFORM? WE CAN MANDATED TO DO
THAT. THAT WILL SHIFT THIS WHOLE
CONVERSATION. WE WILL ACTUALLY
SEE THE RELIEF THAT RETAILERS
CONSUMERS. COMMUNITY MEMBERS ARE
LOOKING FOR AND YOU ALL CAN BE
THE PROMULGATE EAR'S OF THAT.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH. THEIR
GAMBLE GUARD. YES GOOD AFTERNOON
. GOOD AFTERNOON, MR CHAIR AND
MEMBERS. MY NAME IS ALEX
CAMPBELL GUARD. I AM THE
PRESIDENT FOR THE CALIFORNIA
POLICE CHIEFS ASSOCIATION. AND
THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR INVITING
OUR ASSOCIATION TO THE TABLE ON
THIS VERY IMPORTANT DISCUSSION.
I WANT TO START BY SIMPLY
STATING THE PRIMARY GOAL OF LAW
ENFORCEMENT IS TO PROTECT THE
PUBLIC FROM HARM. AND IN A
BROADER CONTEXT, WE ARE PART OF
THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM
WHOSE FUNCTION IS TO CORRECT
HARMFUL AND CRIMINAL BEHAVIOR,
WHETHER THAT IS THROUGH
REHABILITATION, EDUCATION,
INCARCERATION OR A COMBINATION
OF ANY OF THOSE UNDERSTANDING
THESE GOALS WHEN WE LOOK AT
RETAIL THEFT, AND MIGHT I ADD
THEFT IN GENERAL, WE
COLLECTIVELY ARE FAILING. OUR
COMMUNITIES ARE BEING VICTIMIZED
AND THE PUBLIC FEELS VULNERABLE,
INDICATED BY MULTIPLE RECENT
POLLS THAT SHOWED OVER 80% OF
RESPONDENTS BELIEVE THEFT IS A
MAJOR PROBLEM. FROM A LAW
ENFORCEMENT PERSPECTIVE WHEN WE
SEE THE SAME INDIVIDUAL BEING
ARRESTED TIME AND TIME AND TIME
AND TIME AGAIN, SHOWING NO
CHANGE IN BEHAVIOR. WE MUST
BELIEVE THAT OUR SYSTEM IS
BROKEN. UNDENIABLY PROPOSITION
47 MADE SIGNIFICANT CHANGES TO
HOW LONG ENFORCEMENT AND OUR
CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM RESPONDS
TO THEFT. NOTABLY BROUGHT 47
REDUCED PENALTIES FOR REPEAT
OFFENDERS, MAKING IT SO NO
MATTER HOW MANY PETTY THEFTS OR
SHOPLIFTING OFFENSES ARE
COMMITTED, THE PENALTY IS ALWAYS
A MISDEMEANOR. AND WHILE
MISDEMEANOR OFFENSES STILL CARRY
PENALTIES, THE REALITY IS OUR
CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM TREATS
THEM AS A LESS SERIOUS CRIME. IN
FACT, IT'S TREATED SIMILAR TO
OTHER NUISANCE VIOLATIONS, SUCH
AS VANDALISM OR DISORDERLY
CONDUCT. FOR THOSE THESE LOW
LEVEL CRIMES, PEOPLE DON'T
EXPECT A PRIORITY RESPONSE. OR
FROM THE OR FOR THE PERPETRATORS
TO FACE ARREST, PROSECUTION OR
SOMETIMES INCARCERATION IN
PRACTICE THESE CRIMES. OR WHERE
AN OFFICER WILL SIMPLY CITE THE
OFFENDER WITH A NOTICE TO APPEAR
IN COURT. THIS IS AN APPROPRIATE
RESPONSE FOR MANY MISDEMEANORS.
AS HMM. THE PROCESS TO ARREST
BOOK DETAIN AND PROSECUTE TAKES
TREMENDOUS TIME RESOURCES. AND
OTHER, UM, VALUABLE. RESOURCES
FROM OUR YOUR COMMUNITY
GUARDIANS EXPECTING THE ENTIRE
SYSTEM BUILT AS IT IS TO CHANGE
HOW IT HAS BEEN FOR SO LONG AT
THIS POINT IS IMPRACTICAL. IN
ADDITION TO PROP 47, WE HAVE
ALSO SEEN A SIGNIFICANT INCREASE
IN GOOD CONDUCT CREDITS AWARDED
AGAINST INDIVIDUAL SENTENCES. IN
MOST CASES, MISDEMEANOR
OFFENDERS WILL ONLY END UP
SERVING HALF OF THEIR TOTAL
SENTENCE IF EVEN THAT AMOUNT IN
ADDITION, THE LEGISLATURE HAS
ELIMINATED VARIOUS SENTENCING
ENHANCEMENTS ON REPEAT OFFENDERS
REMOVED OTHER PENALTIES AND
LIMITED PROBATION TERMS. ALL OF
THESE, ADDING SIGNIFICANTLY TO
LESS ACCOUNTABILITY. FINALLY
JAIL POPULATIONS, AS WAS
MENTIONED EARLIER IN CERTAIN
COUNTIES MEANS THAT THOSE
SERVING MISDEMEANOR SENTENCES
ARE AT THE TOP OF THE LIST FOR
EARLY RELEASE. ALL OF THESE
PRACTICE. ALL OF THIS
PRACTICALLY MEANS THAT THERE'S
VERY LITTLE CONSEQUENCES FOR
THEFT DEFENDERS IN CALIFORNIA.
HUNDREDS OF CHIEFS ACROSS THE
STATE CAN TELL THE SAME STORY.
AN OFFENDER SCOFFING AT THEIR
OFFICERS, CITING QUOTE. JUST
GIVE ME A TICKET AND LET ME GO
OR IN SOME CASES, EVEN ASSERTING
YOU CAN'T ARREST ME FOR THIS.
AND ALTHOUGH THESE STATEMENTS
ARE NOT ACCURATE, THEY'RE
PERVASIVE AND INDICATIVE OF THE
DANGEROUS SOCIAL CONSEQUENCES.
CONSEQUENCES THAT WE ARE SEEING
WHEN THE PUBLIC BELIEVES THERE
ARE NO CONSEQUENCES. CRIMINAL
BEHAVIOR ESCALATES. WHICH IS WHY
WE'RE ANNOUNCING BRAZEN SMASH
AND GRABS. AND CARJACKINGS IN
BROAD DAYLIGHT TO CORRECT THIS,
THERE HAS TO BE ATTEMPTS TO
CREATE STATUES AROUND ORGANIZED
RETAIL THEFT. BUT THOSE LAWS
HAVE BEEN NARROWLY DRAFTED. OUR
ORGANIZED RETAIL THEFT LAWS
REQUIRE A COUPLE OF THINGS TO
INDIVIDUALS ACTING IN CONCERT
NOT SIMPLY TO STEAL BUT THE
STEEL WITH THE INTENT TO SELL,
WHICH IS AN INCREDIBLY HIGH
BURDEN TO PROVE IN COURT. AND
PRACTICALLY MAKES THE STATUTE
INEFFECTIVE. AND ALL THE D A S
CAN AGGREGATE THEFT CASES, THEIR
ABILITY TO DO SO IS VERY
LIMITED. Tð CIRCUMSTANCES
HAPPENING IN RAPID SUCCESSION
UNDER WHAT OUR LAWS OUTLINE AS
WHAT'S CALLED IN THE PENAL CODE.
ONE INTENTION ONE IMPULSE AND
ONE PLAN. ULTIMATELY THESE
EXISTING STATUTES CANNOT SOLVE
FOR THE THOUSANDS OF THEFTS
OCCURRING BY INDIVIDUALS ACTING
ALONE OVER A SPAN OF WEEKS OR
MONTHS, WHICH IS THE BULK OF
THESE INCIDENCES. SPEAKING OF
THE NUMBER OF THEFTS COMMITTED
COLLECTING STATISTICAL STAT
STATISTICS RELATED TO RETAIL
THEFT IS NO SIMPLE TASK AS WE'VE
ALREADY HEARD TODAY. FIRST NOT
EVERY THEFT IS WITNESSED, AND
EVEN WHEN IT IS NOT EVERY THEFT
IS REPORTED. THIS MEANS OUR DATA
DOES NOT CAPTURE THE REALITY OF
THE PROBLEM. THE PROBLEM ITSELF
HAS NOW DISINCENTIVIZE REPORTING
, WHICH NOW HAS CREATED A SELF
FULFILLING PROPHECY OF SORTS.
SECOND, WE DO NOT COLLECT
UNIFORM DATA ON MULTIPLE
OFFENSES COMMITTED BY THE SAME
INDIVIDUAL, OFTEN COMMITTING
CRIMES ACROSS JURISDICTIONAL
BOUNDARIES. LASTLY AND TO BE
FAIR, IT IS A SMALL GROUP OF
OFFENDERS RESPONSIBLE FOR MOST
CRIME, SO WE CANNOT CORRELATE
MACRO ARREST STATISTICS ALONE TO
THE TRUE IMPACT OF THE PROBLEM
IN OUR LOCAL COMMUNITIES. BUT
WHAT WE DO HAVE IS ONE GOOD DATA
SET COLLECTED BY THE CALIFORNIA
DOJ AND REPORTED ANNUALLY. THAT
DATA. LOOKING AT THE NUMBERS. WE
SEE THAT THE VALUE OF STOLEN
GOODS HAS ONLY INCREASED SINCE
THE PASSAGE OF PROP 47 AND 2014.
COMPARING THIS DATA. FROM 4014
TO THE MOST RECENT COMPLETE YEAR
IN 2022, THE ANNUAL VALUE OF
STOLEN GOODS REPORTED TO DOJ.
HAS DOUBLED FROM JUST OVER $2
MILLION IN 2014. SO ALMOST 4.2
MILLION IN 2022. STANDARDIZING
THE 2 MILLION FOR INFLATION. IT
ONLY GROWS TO 2.76 MILLION,
STILL ALMOST A DOUBLE IN THAT
AMOUNT OF TIME. ANYTIME CRIMES
ASSIST, SIX DOUBLE IN SUCH A
SHORT PERIOD OF TIME. WE SHOULD
TAKE NOTE. SO THE QUESTION IS,
HOW DO WE FIX ALL OF THIS? AGAIN
TRYING TO GET THE ENTIRE
CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM TO
RESPOND DIFFERENTLY TO A
MISDEMEANOR CRIME IS IMPRACTICAL
AND WOULD REQUIRE SIGNIFICANT
CHANGES AT EVERY LEVEL, WHICH
WILL LIKELY HAVE UNINTENDED
QUANTITY CONSEQUENCES. 30
SECONDS IS OBVIOUSLY SOMETHING
THAT WE SHOULD CONTINUE TO WORK
TOWARDS INSTEAD. CALIFORNIA
POLICE CHIEFS HAS SPONSORED
LEGISLATION IN THE PAST WITH THE
LEAGUE OF CITIES RETAILERS. AND
D A IS TO RE ESTABLISH HIGHER
PENALTIES ON REPEAT THEFT
OFFENDERS. WHILE THERE ARE OTHER
CHANGES THAT CAN BE MADE, IT IS
OUR BELIEF THAT FOCUSING ON THE
REPEAT OFFENDERS IS BY FAR THE
SINGLE MOST IMPACTFUL CHANGE
NEEDED AT THIS POINT, THANK YOU
ALL FOR INVITING US TO THIS
HEARING. WE LOOK FORWARD TO
TAKING QUESTIONS AND ENGAGE IN
THE CONVERSATION. THANK YOU VERY
MUCH. OKAY, WE'RE RUNNING A
LITTLE BIT BEHIND. SO WE'VE GOT
ABOUT 1520 MINUTES FOR QUESTIONS
, SO I'M JUST GOING TO ASK FOLKS
TO BE CONCISE AND AS SORT OF TWO
MINUTE QUESTIONS ANYONE WHO, UH
HAS QUITE HAS ANY QUESTIONS.
COULD YOU PUT YOUR MIKE UP? THE
ASSEMBLYMEMBER'S MCCARTY AND
THEN PETRIE-NORRIS. THANK YOU
BEFORE MY QUESTIONS. I WANT TO
NOTE THAT I FULLY SUPPORT THIS
EFFORT TO HAVE THE
ACCOUNTABILITY FOR THE SOCIAL
MEDIA PLATFORMS. I'M NOT SURE
THAT THE NAME OF IT BUT KIND OF
AN ONLINE FENCES. UM, IN THE
PANDEMIC, WE ALL STARTED BUYING
THINGS FROM OFFER UP AND
FACEBOOK MARKETPLACE AND SO I
THINK THAT IS A FABULOUS UM,
ENDEAVOR FOR US TO DIG INTO. BUT
I WILL SAY THAT CAN'T THAT CAN'T
BE THE ONLY SOLUTION TO THIS AS
WELL. SO I'M GLAD YOU'RE HERE
TOGETHER, SO I KIND OF HAVE SOME
BACK AND FORTH HERE AND I WANT
TO NOT REALLY WITH THROUGH ME.
I'M NOT OTHER OVER THERE, BUT,
UM LET LET ME FOCUS FIRST ON ON
THE ON THE D A S, UM SO THE
QUESTION THAT WE HEARD EARLIER.
AND THAT, UM, WE JUST HEARD FROM
THE FROM THE ADVOCATES. IS THAT
PUNISHMENT ALONE IS NOT
CONSEQUENTIAL. IT'S FEAR OF
GETTING CAUGHT HERE OF SOME TYPE
OF ACCOUNTABILITY. SO WE HEAR
THE QUESTIONS IRONICALLY, THAT
WE NEED TO POLICE PARTY TO HAVE
MORE ARRESTS, MORE ACTION, SO
WALK US THROUGH AND JUST
PRACTICAL, SIMPLISTIC TERMS. I'M
SORRY. REALITY UM, SIMPLISTIC
TERMS. WHY CURRENT LAW WITH
MISDEMEANOR ARRESTS WHEN IT
COMES WITH UP TO SIX MONTHS IN
COUNTY JAIL? WHY THAT CAN'T BE
ENOUGH. IF IT'S IF IT'S THE
REAL. IF THAT'S THE TRUTH, IT'S
FEAR OF GETTING CAUGHT IN
ACCOUNTABILITY. WHETHER IT'S A
YEAR AND A HALF IN FOLSOM OR SIX
MONTHS IN COUNTY JAIL. YOU'RE
STILL LOCKED UP. SO WHY IS THAT
TOOL INEFFICIENT TO TACKLE THE
PROBLEM? OKAY SO THE PENAL CODE
LAYS OUT WHAT THE CRIMES ARE
PUNISHABLE. SIX MONTHS, 16
MONTHS, TWO YEARS THREE YEARS
AND THEY LAY OUT THE ACTUAL
PUNISHMENT THAT COULD BE GIVEN
TO THE DEFENDANT. THEN THERE'S
THE REALITY OF WHAT IS ACTUALLY
HAPPENING. AND THE CHIEF ALLUDED
TO THIS AS WELL. AND I LIVE IN
ONE OF THOSE COUNTIES IN
RIVERSIDE COUNTY. SO TO GIVE YOU
SOME PERSPECTIVE AFTER A B 109
AND THAT'S WHY I MENTIONED IT.
THE REALIGNMENT ACT. IT HAS A
PART IN THIS CONVERSATION. AND
WHAT HAPPENED? THERE IS THAT IN
2011? A LOT OF FELONIES. VERY
PROBABLY THE MAJORITY WERE
TRANSFERRED. THE SENTENCES WERE
TRANSFERRED TO BE SERVED IN THE
COUNTY JAIL RATHER THAN STATE
PRISON BECAUSE OF PLATA, RIGHT
AND WHAT WAS GOING ON IN THE
FEDERAL CASE? BUT WHAT HAPPENED
WAS WHEN YOU TRANSFER ALL OF
THOSE PEOPLE TO THE COUNTY
JAILS. THE COUNTY JAILS ARE
BUSTING AT THE SEAMS. THEY DON'T
HAVE THE ROOM TO HOUSE. LOW
LEVEL FELONY DEFENDANTS WHO ARE
SENTENCED MUCH LESS MISDEMEANOR.
IT'S THE MIST DEMANDS WHO
ACTUALLY MIGHT SERVE SOME TIME.
TYPICALLY ARE THOSE DOMESTIC
VIOLENCE. AND THE U. S.
EVERYBODY ELSE IS RELEASED. SO
THAT'S THAT'S SORT OF THE ANSWER
TO YOUR QUESTION IS THAT AND I
WANT TO BACK IF I CAN HAVE THOSE
SOMETIMES PEOPLE, OKAY? IT'S THE
FEAR OF GETTING CAUGHT. IT'S
SHOWING UP TO COURT THAT FIRST
TIME THEY DON'T WANT TO EVER DO
THAT AGAIN. THAT'S ALL MOST
PEOPLE IN THIS ROOM. BUT THAT'S
NOT WHO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. AND
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE WHO
ARE NOT HAVING A CONSEQUENCE FOR
THE BEHAVIOR OTHER THAN THAT,
AND SO THEY CONTINUE THE
BEHAVIOR AND THEY THEY DON'T
SERVE ANY SENTENCES IN THE
COUNTY JAIL. I HOPE THAT ANSWERS
YOUR QUESTION. YES BUT NOT
REALLY. SO I'M STILL HAVING A
LOSS. ANOTHER 58 COUNTIES, SOME
ARE MORE CROWDED THAN OTHERS. SO
I YOU SAYING THAT UNDER THE TOOL
THAT YOU WISH YOU'D HAVE YOU GET
A REPEAT OFFENDER AND HAVE SOME
ACCOUNTABILITY AND THAT PERSON
WOULD GO. YOU DON'T CARE WHETHER
THEY GO TO STATE PRISON OR
COUNTY JAIL AS LONG AS THERE'S
SOME INCARCERATION. ASSUMING
THAT THE DIVERSION AND
COLLABORATIVE COURTS PATH DIDN'T
DOESN'T WORK BECAUSE WE ALL
AGREE THAT'S A BETTER PATH.
ASSUMING THAT FAILS SOME TYPE OF
ACCOUNTABILITY. YOU ALL DON'T
CARE WHETHER IT'S A COUNTY JAIL
OR STATE PRISON CORRECT SERVING
THE ACTUAL SENTENCE IN THE
COUNTY JAIL. THAT WOULD NOT WE
WOULD NOT. I WOULD NOT HAVE A
PROBLEM WITH THAT. BUT THAT'S
NOT WHAT'S HAPPENING. EXAMPLES
DO YOU HAVE EXAMPLES OF WHERE
YOU YOU PROSECUTE? REPEAT
OFFENDER FOR RETAIL FAT FOR
MISDEMEANOR AND THERE'S A
SENTENCE. AND THE SHERIFF JUST
SAYS WE DON'T HAVE ANY. WE
CAN'T. YOU CAN'T STAY HERE. EVEN
THOUGH YOU HAVE A SIX MONTH
SENTENCE. WE'RE GOING TO RELEASE
YOU AFTER 10 DAYS, SO THAT'S
HAPPENING OVER AND OVER. AND
THAT'S WHY THE A S R JUST
THROWING UP THEIR HANDS AND
SAYING I'M NOT GOING TO DO IT.
OH, NO, WE'RE FILING THE CASES
WERE FILING THE CASES AND WE'RE
PROSECUTING THE CASES. I CAN
GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE. THERE WAS
CHRISTOPHER JACKSON FROM OUR
COUNTY. YOU HAD ME MAKE SURE I
GET IT RIGHT? 50 FOR BURGLARY
COUNTS THAT HE WAS BEING
PROSECUTED FOR AND HE DID SEVEN
MONTHS. IN THE JAIL. BECAUSE
THERE THE JAIL IS FULL. IT'S NOT
LIKE THE JAIL FROM 15 YEARS AGO,
WHEN I CAME TO THE D A S OFFICE
THAT JAIL IS FILLED WITH MOSTLY
VIOLENT OFFENDERS. MURDERERS
RAPISTS, CHILD MOLESTERS WHO ARE
AWAITING TRIAL OR PRETRIAL IN
THE IN THE JAIL. SO THE
SHERIFF'S ARE IN THESE HORRIBLE,
DIFFICULT SITUATIONS OF DECIDING
BECAUSE THEY'RE UNDER CONSENT
DEGREES. WHO DO I KEEP? WHO DO I
KEEP IN HERE? AND THEY'RE GOING
TO KEEP THE MURDERERS, THE
RAPISTS AND CHILD MOLESTERS WHO
ARE WAITING TRIAL AND IF THEY
HAVE TO, THEY'RE GOING TO CUT
LOOSE THE THEFT SENTENCED THEFT
DEFENDANTS. AND THAT'S A
TERRIBLE SITUATION TO BE, AND NO
ONE WANTS THAT IF THEY WERE
SERVING THEIR ENTIRE SENTENCES.
WE'D PROBABLY HAVE MORE
JENNIFER'S WHO ARE GOING INTO
TREATMENT IT IT REALLY HURTS ME
TO SEE THAT STATISTIC OF 67%
DOWN IN DRUG COURT. I WANT THOSE
PEOPLE INTO TREATMENT. AND THE
ONLY WAY TO GET IT IS SOME
ENHANCED PENALTIES. YES, SO THE
ENHANCED PENALTY AND THE
POTENTIAL SENTENCING IN YOUR
EYES DOESN'T MATTER IF IT'S
COUNTY JAIL OR STATE PRISON AS
LONG AS THERE'S I LEGIT AMOUNT
OF TIME. IT'S NOT WHETHER IT OR
IT'S NOT RIGHT AND UNDER 81 09.
THAT'S NOT HAPPENING RIGHT
BECAUSE THERE'S NO ROOM AT THE
JAILS TO ACCOMMODATE EVERYBODY
THAT WAS IN THE STATE PRISONS
USED TO SEND IT THE STATE
PRISON. SO THAT'S WHAT'S
HAPPENING. PEOPLE AREN'T SERVING
THE SENTENCES. OKAY WELL,
CERTAINLY COME BACK IN THE
FUTURE. UM SO LET ME ASK NOW TO
THE ADVOCATES ON THE REPEAT
OFFENDERS. AND THIS NOTION THAT
COLLABORATIVE COURTS AND
TREATMENT AND DIVERSION UM.
WHAT'S WHAT'S WRONG WITH THAT,
ASSUMING THAT THE PERSON HAS A
PLACE TO GO, AND IT'S OFFERED
LEGITIMATE OPTION OF HAVING THE
BASICALLY THE TOOL THAT YOU
CHOOSE THIS DOOR OR THERE'S SOME
ACCOUNTABILITY ON THE OTHER END.
WHAT? WHAT'S THE FLAW IN THAT?
SO, UM. THERE'S UM FIRST I JUST
WANT TO ARTICULATE THAT. I THINK
ONE OF THE KEY CHALLENGES IS
THAT THERE IS THIS IDEA OF NO
CONSEQUENCES MEANS THAT IF
SOMEONE IS CITED AND RELEASED,
AND THEY DON'T SHOW UP TO COURT,
NOTHING HAPPENS, RIGHT? THAT'S A
THAT'S A MUCH BIGGER NUMBER OF
PEOPLE THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.
THEN THE PEOPLE WHO ARE IN COURT
AND FOR WHICH THERE IS A
SENTENCE, IF YOU'RE IF YOU'RE
NOT HAVING PEOPLE SENTENCED WELL
, FIRST, IF YOU'RE NOT
INVESTIGATING, MOST OF IT RIGHT
AND AGAIN, 12% OF CRIME THAT IS
PROPERTY CRIME IS INVESTIGATED
12% OF THE TOTAL THAT HAS BEEN
THE CASE FOR DECADES. THEN
YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT OF THAT 12%
FOR WHICH THERE'S ACTION TAKEN.
IF THE PERSON DOESN'T APPEAR IN
COURT, THEN THERE'S NO THEN
THERE'S NO SENTENCE. SO WHAT A
CRITICAL STEP HERE IS ASKING THE
QUESTION. WHAT CAN BE DONE TO
MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE UTILIZING
THE MISDEMEANOR COURT THE WAY IT
IS SUPPOSED TO BE UTILIZED?
WE'RE NOT GETTING PEOPLE INTO
COURT AND THEN WHEN THEY'RE INTO
COURT WERE NOT EFFECTIVELY
SANCTIONING THEM OR PROVIDING
OPTIONS OR THE RANGE OF OPTIONS
THAT ARE AVAILABLE. UM, AS IT
RELATES TO THE QUESTION ABOUT,
YOU KNOW, HOW DO YOU INCENTIVIZE
TREATMENT? YOU CAN LOOK AT SOME
OF THE PROGRAMS THAT HAVE BEEN
FUNDED THROUGH PROPOSITION 47 TO
SEE EFFECTIVE USE OF DIVERSION,
RIGHT? YOU CAN HAVE AN INCENTIVE
BASED DIVERSION PROGRAM, FOR
EXAMPLE, IF SOMEONE FACING
SIGNIFICANT AMOUNTS OF FINES IF
WE SAY LOOK, WE CAN WAIVE THESE
FINES. IF YOU GO THROUGH THIS
SUBSTANCE USE DISORDER TREATMENT
IF YOU PARTICIPATE IN THIS, UM,
COMMUNITY SERVICE PROGRAM, THEN
YOU'RE SEEING EFFECTIVE.
RECIDIVISM REDUCTION STRATEGIES
HAPPEN THAT DON'T REQUIRE ANY
JAIL, PARTICULARLY OR YOU CAN
HAVE SMALLER JAIL TIME. ALSO
COMBINED WITH THOSE INCENTIVE
BASED MECHANISMS FOR REDUCING
THE RECIDIVISM OF THAT PERSON,
BUT WHAT'S KEY IS FIRST OUR WEEK
APPROPRIATELY INVESTIGATING ALL
OF IT SECOND. ARE WE GETTING
PEOPLE IN THE DOOR TO THE
COURTROOM AND THEN THIRD ONCE
THEY'RE IN THE COURTROOM? DO WE
HAVE THE RANGE OF SANCTIONS
AVAILABLE THAT SPECIFICALLY
ADDRESS THE DRIVERS OF THAT
INDIVIDUAL? AND REDUCE THE
LIKELIHOOD THAT THAT PERSON
COMES BACK. THAT'S WHERE YOU'RE
SEEING FAILURES THAT ARE
PRIMARILY AROUND. ONGOING
PRACTICES OF CRIMINAL JUSTICE
AGENCIES, NOT THE REFLECTION OF
RECENT REFORMS. WE? I'D LIKE TO
TRY TO GET TO SOME OTHER FOLKS
AT THAT. THE NUMBER. YEAH
ACTUALLY PICKING UP ON A SIMILAR
VEIN. AND THIS THIS PANEL HAS
BEEN INCREDIBLY INSTRUCTIVE TO
ME. I THINK OFTENTIMES IT'S
LEGISLATORS. WE SORT OF PASS
LAWS AND YOU KNOW THEY GO IN THE
BOOKS. TURNS OUT WE ACTUALLY
HAVE A LOT OF LAWS AND THE
QUESTION OF HOW THEY'RE ACTUALLY
GETTING IMPLEMENTED AND HOW THAT
SHOWING UP FOR THE COMMUNITY IS
ACTUALLY THE MORE IMPORTANT
QUESTION. SO, UM A NUMBER OF YOU
SAID THAT DESPITE THE LAWS THAT
WE HAVE ON THE BOOKS IN
PRACTICE, THERE ARE NO
CONSEQUENCES. AND I THINK, UM
MISS ANDERSON. YOU STARTED TO
TALK ABOUT WHAT SOUNDS LIKE
MAJOR ISSUES WITH OUR
MISDEMEANOR COURT SYSTEM AND
SOUNDS LIKE A MAJOR. NEED FOR
SOME PRETTY MAJOR REFORMS. SO I
GUESS IT'S THE LEGISLATURE.
WHERE WOULD WE START? TO MAKE
THAT HAPPEN, BECAUSE IT AND
AGAIN MISFIT FITZPATRICK. WHAT
YOU MENTIONED IS IT'S NOT ABOUT
US, ADDING MORE. PENALTIES TO
THIS LIST. IT'S ENSURING THAT
THE LAWS ON THE BOOKS ARE
ACTUALLY GETTING IMPLEMENTED AND
ENFORCED AND THAT INDIVIDUALS
ARE ACTUALLY SERVING TIME IN
COUNTY JAIL. SO I GUESS.
MISDEMEANOR COURTS, THE COUNTY
JAIL SYSTEM. WHAT WHAT ARE THE
STEPS THAT WE CAN TAKE TO
ADDRESS WITH? TO ME? IT SOUNDS
LIKE MAJOR MAJOR SHORTCOMINGS
AND MAJOR DRIVERS FOR THE CRISIS
THAT WE'RE NOW FACING. I WONDER
IF I COULD JUST START BY SAYING
I THINK IT IS TRUE. WE COULD
INVEST MANY MORE RESOURCES AND
SPEEDING UP MISDEMEANOR DOCKETS
AND ENSURING THAT SHERIFFS HAVE
THE JAIL SPACE TO HOLD PEOPLE
AND WE CAN AND SHOULD BEAR IT
THOSE OUT HERE IN THIS COMMITTEE
AND WE DO NOT HAVE ENOUGH MONEY
TO SOLVE THAT PROBLEM. THAT WAY
WE DO NOT. WE CANNOT FUND THE
COURTS AT THE LEVEL THEY WOULD
NEED TO BE FUNDED TO MOVE A
MISDEMEANOR CASE THROUGH AT A
PACE THAT WOULD MEAN SWIFT,
CERTAIN CONSEQUENCES IN A WAY
THAT WOULD IMPACT A PERSON AND
CHANGE THEIR BEHAVIOR, SO I
THINK IT'S A GOOD INVESTIGATION
FOR US TO ASK WHAT'S IN OUR
MISDEMEANOR COURTS AND WHAT?
WHERE CAN WE MOVE? THINGS IN? A
LOT OF US HAVE SPENT TIME
WORKING ON THOSE QUESTIONS. WHEN
I WAS IN SAN FRANCISCO, WE
CREATED A NEIGHBORHOOD COURT
MODEL WHERE WE PUSHED A LOT OF
LOW LEVEL CASES INTO THE
COMMUNITY AND WE TRAINED
ADJUDICATORS TO HANDLE THOSE
THEY HAPPENED. FASTER VICTIMS
WERE HAPPIER WITH THE OUTCOME,
AND THERE WAS LESS RECIDIVISM
FROM THOSE KINDS OF STRATEGIES
ARE REALLY EFFECTIVE IN MOVING
IN IN FREEING UP THE RESOURCES
OF A JUDGE AND A PROSECUTOR AND
DEFENSE ATTORNEY TO DEAL WITH
WHAT THEY ACTUALLY NEED TO DEAL
WITH WHICH IS A DOMESTIC
VIOLENCE MISDEMEANOR, WHICH IS A
DRIVING UNDER THE INFLUENCE
MISDEMEANOR. THOSE ARE THE CASES
THAT NEED A COURTROOM AND AN
ADJUDICATION OR AT LEAST SOME
SIGNIFICANT OVERSIGHT. BUT BUT
THINGS LIKE LOW LEVEL THEFT
GRAFFITI, UM, PUBLIC NUISANCES.
THOSE ARE THINGS THAT COMMUNITY
ACTUALLY CARES A LOT MORE ABOUT
THAN THE COURTROOM STAFF.
FRANKLY, WHEN WE ARE ALL IN
THOSE COURTS WERE LIKE THESE ARE
THE THINGS THAT ARE REALLY TIE
UP A WHOLE COURTROOM FOR
MULTIPLE COURTROOMS FOR DAYS, SO
I THINK LOOKING AT THOSE KINDS
OF SOLUTIONS CAN BRING SOME
RELIEF AROUND THIS. UM, BUT WE?
I MEAN, I CAN IN THE SAME WAY WE
CAN SAY SHOPLIFTING GETS TREATED
AS A MISDEMEANOR, AND IT'S ONLY
A SIX MONTH MAXIMUM, AND PEOPLE
ARE GETTING RELEASED. WHEN WE
LOOK, WE HAVE TO SEPARATE OUT
THE KINDS OF BEHAVIOR WE'RE
TALKING ABOUT HERE. ONE OF THE
CHALLENGES I'M HAVING HERE IS
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SHOPLIFTING,
AND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT
SMASHING, GRAB AND ORGANIZED.
THOSE ARE VERY DIFFERENT
ACTIVITIES THAT REQUIRE VERY
DIFFERENT RESPONSES FROM US. WE
TITRATE ID THE PENAL CODE FOR A
REASON. BECAUSE STEALING FOOD OR
SOMETHING LESS THAN $50. LESS
THAN 400 ARE VERY DIFFERENT
ACTIVITY AND, IN MY OPINION, A
MISDEMEANOR CONSEQUENCES
APPROPRIATE WHEN YOU GO INTO A
STORE AND YOU'RE SMASHING
DISPLAY CASES IN YOUR FLIPPING
OVER CLOTHING RACKS AND
EVERYBODY'S RUNNING SCARED.
THAT'S A FELONY CONDUCT AND WE
HAVE CONSEQUENCES FOR THAT. THE
CASE? I DON'T KNOW IF YOU ALSO
THE CASE IN LOS ANGELES, THE
SAKS FIFTH AVENUE IN BEVERLY
HILLS. IF YOU HAVEN'T YOU'VE
SEEN ONE LIKE IT MASKS AND
RUNNING IN AND GRABBING
EVERYTHING AND CHAOS ABOUNDS.
THE L A. D. A S OFFICE HAS
CHARGED THE INDIVIDUALS THAT
WERE CAUGHT THERE. WITH TWO
COUNTS OF ROBBERY. THOSE HAVE
FIVE YEAR MAXIMUMS WITH TWO
COUNTS OF CONSPIRACY COUNTS OF
GRAND THEFT THEY'RE FACING LIKE
CLOSE TO A DECADE OR MORE
IMPRISONED. FOR THAT CONSEQUENCE
, RIGHT? WE DO HAVE TOOLS TO
ADDRESS THE CONDUCT THAT WE SEE.
I THINK IF THIS IF THIS
LEGISLATIVE BODY OR AND THIS
CAUCUS WANTS TO THINK ABOUT HOW
TO SHIFT JAIL RESOURCES. THAT'S
THAT'S A MUCH BIGGER ENDEAVOR. I
WOULD ENCOURAGE US TO THINK
ABOUT WHAT ARE THE WAYS WE MOVE.
THE SOLUTION SET UPSTREAM
BECAUSE OTHERWISE WE WILL JUST
BREAK THE BANK AGAIN TRYING TO
THINK ABOUT HOW TO FUND THE
COURTS AND THE JAILS AND PRISONS
TO THE LEVEL THAT RESPONDS
INSTEAD OF JUST CUTTING THE LEGS
OUT FROM UNDERNEATH THE PROBLEM
TO BEGIN WITH. WHEN I THINK I
WOULD 100% AGREE. WE'VE GOT TO
LOOK AT THAT ENTIRE SPECTRUM.
AND I'M CERTAINLY AGREE WITH
YOUR POINT THAT IF WE REMOVE THE
INCENTIVE TO COMMIT THE CRIME IN
THE FIRST PLACE, THEN WE SOLVED
90% OF THE PROBLEM. ANY OTHER OR
MAYBE WE CAN SAVE THIS FOR
FELLOW APPEARING OR FOLLOW UP
CONVERSATION UNLESS ANYONE HAS
ANY WORDS OF WISDOM ON HOW TO
FIX MISDEMEANOR COURTS AND LESS
THAN 30 SECONDS. LET'S UH, LET'S
LET'S HOLD THAT FOR THE UNTIL
THE END. I'D LIKE TO MISS PONTA
HAS A QUESTION AND I HAVE A
QUESTION AND WE ONLY HAVE FIVE
MINUTES LEFT IN THIS IN THIS
PORTION. I WANT TO THANK THANK
YOU, CHAIR. UM I CAME. I
CERTAINLY HAD A CONVERSATION
WITH THE SPEAKER, UM AND HAD AN
OPPORTUNITY TO TALK WITH YOU
CHAIR ABOUT THIS SCOPE OF THIS
UH HUH. COMMITTEE OR WORKING
GROUP. WHATEVER WE ARE, UM AND
ONE OF THE HESITATIONS I HAD WAS
THAT WE WOULD START TO WAX ON
INTO AREAS WHERE WE WERE FOCUSED
ON THAT EXISTING SOLUTIONS. UM
AND KIND OF FITTING THOSE
COMPONENTS OF OUR CRIMINAL
JUSTICE SYSTEM INTO, UH, THE
CHALLENGE AND THE PROBLEM THAT
WE HAVE AROUND ADDRESSING
ORGANIZED RETAIL THEFT, UH, AND
RETAIL THEFT MORE BROADLY. MY
COMMUNITY IS CONCERNED ABOUT
SMASH AND GRABS. MY COMMUNITY IS
CONCERNED ABOUT, UH, ABOUT
BUSINESS OWNERS, RESTAURATEURS
GOING OUT OF BUSINESS BECAUSE
THEY CAN'T AFFORD THAT INSURANCE
PLUS RECOVERING FROM COVID. PLUS
UM, THE EXPERIENCE OF THEFT,
CLOSING DOWN THEIR SHOPS. THOSE
ARE THE THINGS THAT MY COMMUNITY
IS CONCERNED ABOUT. MY COMMUNITY
IS ALSO CONCERNED ABOUT MASS
INCARCERATION. WE'VE JUST
ENGAGED IN A CONVERSATION. QUITE
FRANKLY, THAT I THINK HAS BEEN A
LITTLE BIT. SOME OF THE PANELS
HAS BEEN INCREDIBLE DISSERVICE
BECAUSE WE HAVE NOT BEEN BASING,
UH, THE ASSERTIONS THAT WE'VE
BEEN MAKING ON FACTS TO SAY THAT
WE ARE BUSTING AT THE SEAMS IN
OUR COUNTY JAIL SYSTEM. WITHOUT
ANY DATA ON FOUNDED IS DOING A
DISSERVICE TO THIS COMMUNITY TO
THIS TO THIS LEGISLATURE INTO
THIS BODY. WE HAVE TO BE CLEAR
ON SETTING THE BASELINE SET OF
INFORMATION THAT WE CAN ALL
OPERATE FROM IN ORDER TO BE ABLE
TO COME UP WITH SOLUTIONS, SO I
WOULD JUST ENCOURAGE US AS WE'RE
PRESENTING INFORMATION TO PEOPLE
WHO ARE TRYING TO DESPERATELY
SUPPORT THEIR COMMUNITY AND COME
UP WITH SOLUTIONS THAT WE'RE
DOING SO IN A WAY THAT IS BASED
IN FACT AND DATA. AND HAVING OUR
SITUATION WHERE WHERE IS I'M
JUST SAYING SORRY WE CAME UP
CAN'T COME UP WITH THE DATA.
LIKE HELP ME HELP YOU ACTUALLY
GIVE US THAT DATA. AND WE'RE
ACTUALLY NOT DOING THAT. AND SO
I'M MINIMALLY FRUSTRATED. I HOPE
THAT WE MOVE FORWARD IN A WAY
THAT ACTUALLY CENTERS DATA
CENTERS THE WAY IN WHICH WE HAVE
AND THAT WE ARE SOLUTION
ORIENTED IN THE WAY THAT WE ARE
DOING THINGS I DON'T WANT TO
ENTER. HAVE THIS BODY ENTER INTO
A FULL DISCUSSION AROUND HOW TO
ADDRESS THE MISDEMEANOR COURT
SYSTEM, ALTHOUGH IT NEEDS TO I
DON'T WANT THIS BODY TO ENTER
INTO THE FACT THAT THE LENGTH OF
TIME THAT PEOPLE ARE SERVING
AWAITING TRIAL. NOT EVEN CHARGED
IS SO SEVERE AND SO LONG THAT
IT'S CAUSING US TO HAVE PEOPLE
EXIST IN OUR COUNTY JAIL SYSTEM.
I DON'T THINK THAT THAT'S THE
WORK OF THIS BODY. I WANT US TO
STAY FOCUSED AGAIN ON SOLUTIONS.
UPSTREAM SOLUTIONS IF THAT HELPS
THAT ACTUALLY CAUSES US TO BE
ABLE TO CREATE SOME SOME GOOD.
SO I'M HOPING LOOKING FORWARD TO
THE NEXT, UH, CONVERSATION AND
HEARING THAT WE WILL HAVE ON
THIS AND I REALLY ENCOURAGE US
TO STAY FOCUSED ON USING DATA
AND INFORMATION THAT'S GROUNDED
IN THE ACTUAL EXPERIENCE THAT IS
HAPPENING RIGHT NOW TO BE ABLE
TO ADDRESS ORGANIZED RETAIL
THEFT AND RETAIL THEFT IN OUR
COMMUNITIES IN A WAY THAT IS
PRODUCTIVE. RIGHT THE DATA I
HAVE PROVIDED TO THE COMMITTEE.
I'M NOT SURE IF YOU'VE RECEIVED
IT YET, BUT A ONE PAGER. THAT
SHOWS THE RELEASES FROM THE
RIVERSIDE COUNTY JAIL OVER THE
COURSE OF THE LAST DECADE OR
MORE. AND IT SHOWS A HUGE SPIKE
AS YOU'LL SEE, MADAM NINE.
MADAM, SPEAKING ABOUT COUNTY
JAILS ACROSS THE STATE OF
CALIFORNIA IS A VERY DIFFERENT
THING THAN SPECIFYING
SPECIFICALLY WHAT IS HAPPENING
IN RIVERSIDE COUNTY. THAT IS NOT
WHAT YOU SAID THAT IS NOT WHAT
YOU OFFERED. I DO HAVE STATS ON
THIS DATA HAD LIMITED SPACE ON
THAT I AM GATHERING THOSE STATS.
AS YOU CAN IMAGINE. THEY'RE VERY
DIFFICULT TO GATHER. THE WHOLE
STATE. BUT I'D BE HAPPY ONCE I
DO TO PROVIDE THAT TO THE
COMMITTEE, BUT I DO HAVE MY AT
LEAST MY OWN COUNTY. THANK YOU.
UM I JUST HAD ONE FASTER. OKAY
GO AHEAD. YOU GO FIRST. AND THEN
ON THE POINT OF DATA, AND I
HEARD, UM, MR GAMBLE GUARD. YES
GOOD. OKAY UM, I HEARD YOU TALK
ABOUT REPEAT OFFENDERS. AND I AM
WONDERING. I'VE HEARD THAT A
NUMBER OF TIMES IS THEIR DATA
SHOWING THAT THIS IS A SMALL
HANDFUL OF PEOPLE AND THEY'RE
REPEAT OFFENDERS. WHAT KIND OF
DATA IS THERE ON THIS? SO AS I
MENTIONED, UM MUCH OF THIS CROSS
SHORT ANSWER, NOT GREAT DATA. UM
. AND NOT QUICKLY IN THE HANDS
OF FOLKS. IT DOES SHOW UP ON RAP
SHEETS, CRIMINAL HISTORY
DOCUMENTS WHERE IT CAN SHOW, UM,
DATA BUT OFTENTIMES TO WHAT
WE'RE DEALING WITH, ESPECIALLY
IN THIS PARTICULAR TOPIC OF
RETAIL THEFT IS RELATIVELY SHORT
PERIODS OF TIME BETWEEN ALLEGED
OFFENSES SO WE DON'T HAVE
CONVICTION DATA BECAUSE OF THAT
BACKLOG WITHIN THE COURT SYSTEM
SO WE MAY SHOW ARREST. ARREST.
ARREST, ARREST, ARREST, NO
CONVICTION. AND JUST TO BE
CLEAR, SO IS DO POLICE. AGENCIES
COLLECT ALL OF THIS. LIKE, HOW
DO WE GET A SENSE OF THIS DATA?
HOW CAN WE GET MORE DATA HERE?
UM I THINK THAT THROUGH SOME OF
THE STATEWIDE ASSOCIATIONS WE
COULD WORK TO TRY TO GATHER SOME
OF IT. BUT AS YOU'RE PROBABLY
AWARE, THERE'S INCREDIBLY
DISPARATE DATA SYSTEMS
THROUGHOUT OUR AGENCIES
THROUGHOUT CALIFORNIA. DIFFERENT
VENDORS, DIFFERENT WAYS OF
COLLECTING IT. THE WHOLE SYBERS
NEIGHBORS INITIATIVE, WHICH WAS
SORT OF MENTIONED ON ONE OF
THOSE BILLS THAT DIDN'T PASS IS
DEFINITELY GETTING BETTER
BECAUSE AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL,
THE WAY THEY'RE REQUIRING DATA
TO BE REPORTED, IS BECOMING MORE
CONSISTENT. SO I THINK IN THE
FUTURE, WE'LL HAVE BETTER DATA.
THE DATA IS THERE, BUT MINING.
IT IS DIFFICULT. SO IF THERE
WAS, UM A AN ATTEMPT TO CREATE
SOMEBODY OR A GROUP OF PEOPLE TO
HELP GET THAT DATA. I THINK WE
COULD. WE COULD GET IT FROM THE
AGENCY'S THANK YOU. WE HAD A B
327, WHICH I WOULD HAVE DONE
THIS VERY THING REQUIRE ALL OF
OUR CALIFORNIA LONG FORM AND
AGENCIES TO REPORT THEIR DATA.
WE ARE THE SECOND WORST IN THE
COUNTRY RIGHT BEHIND FLORIDA.
AND THERE IS INCREDIBLE
DIFFICULTIES WITH THE SYSTEMS. I
AGREE. WE SHOULD BE REPORTING
IT. MANY PEOPLE ARE TRYING AND
DOJ IS OUR REPORTING PORTAL
THROUGH TO THE FEDS. UM IT'S
VERY DIFFICULT, BUT WE ARE
WORKING. MANY OF US ARE
COMMITTED TO TRYING TO MAKE THAT
WORK. I'LL DETECT THE LAST
QUESTION. AND YOU KNOW, I'VE
SPOKEN TO A LOT OF THE STORE
OWNERS IN MY AREA. A LOT OF THE
RETAILERS, THE WHOLE HOST OF
THEM. AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT
IS PRETTY CONSISTENT THAT THEY
TELL ME. UM IT ISN'T AN ISSUE OF
SORT OF WHO IS APPREHENDED. IT'S
THE FACT THAT AT THE MISDEMEANOR
LEVEL THERE'S ALMOST NO
APPREHENSION. SO WHAT? YOU KNOW,
I ASKED HIM WHAT HAPPENS WHEN
YOU HAVE A SHOPLIFTER COME IN.
THEY SAID. WELL GENERALLY, SOME
OF THE TIMES THAT SOMEONE THAT'S
NEW A LOT OF THE TIMES THAT
SOMEONE THAT THEY KNOW HAS COME
IN REPEATEDLY, UM THEY WILL MAKE
A JUDGMENT ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT
THEY SHOULD BE STOPPED. AND
THEY'LL HAVE SECURITY GUARDS DO
THAT, IF THEY DO. UH, MANY TIMES
THEY BECAUSE OF SAFETY REASONS
THEY DON'T HAVE THE SECURITY
GUARDS STOPPED THEM. IF THEY DO
HAVE A SECURITY GUARD STOPPED
THEM. THEY WILL GENERALLY
CONFISCATE THE UM THE GOODS. UM
I ASKED THEM WHETHER THEY CALLED
THE POLICE TO REPORT THEY SAY
THEY DON'T BECAUSE THE POLICE
WON'T COME BECAUSE IT'S A LOW
LOW PRIORITY ISSUE. UM I ASKED
IF THEY REPORT THEY SAY THAT
THEY GENERALLY DO, BUT THEN
ESSENTIALLY, THEY GIVE THEM A
TRESPASS TICKET, WHICH BASICALLY
TELLS THEM THAT THEY SHOULDN'T
COME BACK, BUT THEY COME BACK,
AND THEY HAVE REPEATED TRESPASS
TICKETS SO REALLY? ALMOST
NOTHING HAPPENS. AT THE
MISDEMEANOR LEVEL. AND SO I
GUESS MY CLOSING QUESTION IS
WHAT KINDS OF THINGS CAN WE DO
TO ME? THIS ISN'T A QUESTION OF
PUTTING THESE PEOPLE IN PRISON.
IT'S A QUESTION OF SORT OF WHERE
DO WE HAVE THE WHERE DO WE FIND
THE RESOURCES AND WHAT ARE SOME
OF THE THINGS THAT WE CAN DO TO
CREATE A CHANGE IN THE WAY
PEOPLE WHO THINK THAT THERE'S NO
CONSEQUENCE WILL UNDERSTAND THAT
THERE IS SOME CONSEQUENCE. I'M
SURE EVERYONE HAS AN OPINION
HERE, BUT I WOULD SAY IT IS
IMPORTANT FOR AN ARREST TO
HAPPEN. I RECOGNIZE THAT
RETAILERS MAKE AN EVALUATION AND
THAT IS THEIR PREROGATIVE TO DO
SO. BUT WHEN THEY CALL THE
POLICE, THE POLICE NEED TO COME
AND TAKE A REPORT THAT NEEDS TO
BE TURNED OVER TO A PROSECUTING
ATTORNEY'S OFFICE SO THAT THEY
CAN FILE A CASE. THAT CASE NEEDS
TO BE PROCEEDED THROUGH THE
COURTS SO THAT THERE'S A
CONVICTION AND THEN YOU HAVE A
PRIOR ABILITY SITUATION, RIGHT?
BUT WE HAVE TO EACH POINT IN
THAT CHAIN HAS TO DO ITS ROLE.
AND IF WE DO, AND YOU HAVE A
CONSEQUENCE UP TO SIX MONTHS IN
JAIL OR WHEN YOU GET INTO
ANOTHER CATEGORY, UP TO A YEAR
IN JAIL OR UP TO THREE YEARS
SERVED IN A COUNTY JAIL, THAT'S
A VERY SUBSTANTIAL SENTENCE FOR
A PROPERTY CRIME. THREE YEARS OF
YOUR LIFE. I MEAN, YOU CAN
ALMOST GRADUATE WITH AN A B A
RIGHT. THERE'S NO SMALL AMOUNT
OF TIME YOUR CHILD WILL HAVE
GONE FROM NOT WALKING TO BEING
IN ELEMENTARY SCHOOL AND THAT
AMOUNT OF TIME. IT IS NOT A
SMALL NUMBER OF YEARS. BUT IT
REQUIRES EACH AGENCY IN THAT
CHAIN TO DO THEIR ROLE RIGHT AND
THAT'S WHAT'S HAPPENING NOW AND
WE SEE A LOT OF I WAS SHOCKED
HERE TO HEAR PEOPLE NOW BEING
THREATENED WITH BEING DECLARED A
NUISANCE FOR CALLING THE POLICE
FOR HELP. I THAT'S NEW
INFORMATION TO ME A VERY
TROUBLING IF THAT IS HAPPENING,
BUT WE CERTAINLY HEAR AROUND THE
STATE. AROUND THE STATE LAW
ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES, SAYING
THERE'S NOTHING I CAN DO. THE
LAW DOESN'T ALLOW IT. PROP 47
YOUR D A AND THAT IS DOES NOT
HAVE A PLACE IN THIS RESPONSE
RIGHT? IT REQUIRES EACH AGENCY
TO DO THEIR ROLE. DO IT WELL AND
LET THE NEXT AGENCY STEP IN AND
DO THEIR ROLE AND DO IT WELL,
OTHERWISE CHAOS ABOUTS. JUST
GONNA LIKE, UH MR DONALD GUARD.
JUST HAVE ONE RESPONSE TO THAT.
BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY, UM, YOU KNOW,
I KNOW THE LOS ANGELES POLICE
DON'T GENERALLY COME. IT'S AND
SO I KNOW THAT THERE ARE
DIFFERENT CIRCUMSTANCES IN
DIFFERENT LOCAL AREAS. BUT I
WONDER IF YOU CAN SORT OF
RESPOND ABOUT SORT OF WHO'S
MAKING THE DECISIONS ON THE
RESPONSE CRITERION WHEN SOMEONE
SHOWS UP AT A LOCAL AREA. YEAH,
I 100% AGREE WITH THE FACT THAT
THE POLICE SHOULD BE ABLE TO
RESPOND TO ANY INCIDENT THAT THE
COMMUNITY IS CALLING ABOUT.
UNFORTUNATELY SOMETIMES THAT'S
NOT THE REALITY. MY JURISDICTION
NORTHERN CALIFORNIA SMALL WE
WILL RESPOND. WE WILL TAKE A
REPORT EVEN IF THE PERSON IS
LONG GONE, AND IF IT ENDS UP
BEING ONE OF THE BALANCE OF THE
7 TO 12. I DO WANT TO MAKE A
COMMENT, THOUGH THAT
INVESTIGATING CRIME VERSUS
SOLVING CRIME. VERY DIFFERENT
DISTINCTION ON THOSE NUMBERS.
UM, I THINK THAT I CAN'T SPEAK
FOR SOME OF THOSE OTHER
AGENCIES. I ALSO AGREE THAT AND
ALSO SURPRISED TO HEAR. THAT
ANYONE WOULD EVER ATTEMPT TO
MAKE A NUISANCE CASE OUT OF
SOMEBODY CALLING TO REPORT
LEGITIMATE CRIME. UM I DON'T
THINK THERE'S A PLACE FOR THAT.
BUT I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY WHAT WE'RE
HEARING TODAY IS THIS IS A VERY
COMPLEX ISSUE. UH THAT REQUIRES,
UM, I KNOW IN THE HEARINGS I'VE
HEARD TODAY I THINK THE
JUDICIARY AND, UM PEOPLE WHO RUN
JAILS PROBABLY WOULD HAVE SOME
VALUABLE INSIGHT INTO KIND OF
HOW THE WHOLE SYSTEM FROM START
TO FINISH IS WORKING AND WHERE
SOME OF THE BOTTLENECKS ARE AND
WHERE WE MIGHT BUILD TO MAKE
SOME IMPROVEMENTS. AND IF I IF I
COULD JUST ADD, I THINK YOU CAN
INCENTIVIZE INTERAGENCY
COMMUNICATION TO FOCUS ON
CHRONIC ISSUES. YOU KNOW, I
THINK WE'VE SEEN THAT WE'VE SEEN
THE STATE LEGISLATION. STATE
LEGISLATURE TAKE OPPORTUNITIES
TO CREATE INCENTIVES BASED
LEGISLATION WHERE YOU COMBINE
MONEY THAT WOULD ALREADY BE
GOING FROM THE STATE TO THE
LOCALS ANYWAYS DIET TOO. HEY ARE
YOU GUYS COMMUNICATING? ARE YOU
ASSESSING AND EVALUATING
EXISTING FAILURES TO APPEAR FOR
WHICH NO ACTION HAS BEEN TAKING
ARE YOU ASSESSING AND EVALUATING
HOW MANY TIMES RAIMES.
COMMUNICATION HAS BEEN BROKEN
DOWN AND THEN ARE YOU ASSESSING
AND EVALUATING THE KINDS OF
SANCTIONS THAT ARE DRY DROPPING
RECIDIVISM SO YOU COULD DO THAT,
THROUGH INCENTIVES FOCUSED ON
REDUCING RECIDIVISM AND CLEARING
BACKLOGS, AND THAT I THINK WOULD
BE A HUGE ADVANCE TO IMPROVING
THE KINDS OF COURTROOM PRACTICES
THAT NEED TO BE IMPROVED UNDER
EXISTING LAW. GREAT. THANK YOU
VERY MUCH. REALLY APPRECIATE ALL
OF YOU TAKING TIME WITH US
TODAY. VERY, VERY, VERY
GRATEFUL. THANK YOU. BEFORE WE
CLOSE. UH WE'RE GOING TO HAVE
SOME TIME FOR EACH MEMBER OF THE
COMMITTEE TO HAVE SOME CLOSING
REMARKS, BUT BEFORE THAT, WE
WOULD LIKE TO OPEN, UM, OPEN IT
UP FOR PUBLIC COMMENT. UH WE
WELCOME MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC
WHO WISH TO PROVIDE PUBLIC
COMMENT IN PERSON IN ROOM 1100
TO DO SO, IN ORDER TO HELP ME
DETERMINE HOW LONG EACH
PARTICIPANT WILL HAVE TO SPEAK.
COULD YOU PLEASE RAISE YOUR HAND
IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO HAVE PUBLIC
COMMENT? AND HOW MANY THAT LOOKS
LIKE THERE'S. 12 OKAY, SO I LIKE
TO GIVE EACH PERSON ONE MINUTE
AND LET'S GO AHEAD AND BEGIN.
I'LL SPEAK QUICK. MY NAME'S
SOLOMON. AT TOKEN. I'VE BEEN A
RETAIL LEASING BROKER SINCE THE
EARLY NINETIES. UM I WORK WITH
PEOPLE LIKE MR KRESIC AND PEOPLE
LIKE, UH, MS MICHELIN'S MEMBERS
TO PUT REAL ESTATE DEALS
TOGETHER. UH I GUESS THREE
POINTS. ONE IS YEAH. SHOPLIFTING
TO THE ASSEMBLYMEMBER'S FROM
MODESTO POINT ISN'T GONNA BE
VERY HELPFUL AND IDENTIFYING THE
ISSUE. IT'S SHRINK IS THE NUMBER
YOU NEED. UM SO IF I CAN MAKE A
SUGGESTION, MAYBE THERE'S A WAY
TO HAVE SOME LEGISLATION THAT
MAY BE IN THE BUSINESS LICENSING
PROCESS THAT YOU PROVIDE A
REGULATION THAT REQUIRES
BUSINESSES TO REPORT SHRINK. AND
MAYBE SOME, MAYBE DIG INTO IT
AND SOME OTHER DATA THAT WILL
HELP YOU. UM STAY ON TOP OF THE
ISSUE, ESPECIALLY, YOU KNOW,
FROM CITY TO CITY NEIGHBORHOOD
TO NEIGHBORHOOD REGION TO REGION
BECAUSE IT DOES VARY UM, SECOND
POINT IS JUST UNDERSTAND THAT
THERE'S A MISCONCEPTION THAT
BRICK AND MORTAR IS GOING AWAY.
BECAUSE OF E COMMERCE. AND IT'S
NOT. I DON'T HAVE A LOT OF TIME
TO GET INTO IT. BUT RETAIL THIS
YEAR WAS OVER SEVEN TRILLION
ECONOMY. WE NEED YOU TO WRAP UP
COMMERCE. THE TRILLION IT'S
ACTUALLY DOWN FROM FROM LAST
YEAR. SO, UM SO BRICK AND MORTAR
ISN'T GOING AWAY. THEN THE LAST
THING THE ASSEMBLYMEMBER'S FROM
OAKLAND, WHO I AM A CONSTITUENT
OF DISAPPOINTED THAT SHE DIDN'T
ASK ANY QUESTIONS FROM THE
ESTEEMED PANEL THAT YOU PUT
TOGETHER. THANK YOU. THANK YOU
VERY MUCH HAS ALREADY MADE UP
AND TO ME THAT CYNICISM AND
THAT'S NOT VERY HELPFUL. THANK
YOU. THANK YOU. NATASHA MINSTER
ON BEHALF OF SMART JUSTICE,
CALIFORNIA ACCOUNTABILITY
REQUIRES INTERVENTION. IT DOES
NOT REQUIRE INCARCERATION, AND
IN FACT, INCARCERATION HAS
NEGATIVE EFFECTS THAT MAKE
PEOPLE MORE LIKELY TO REOFFEND
AND MAKES IT MORE DIFFICULT FOR
THEM TO GET THEIR LIFE BACK IN
ORDER, AND THE RESEARCH IS
REALLY CLEAR ON THIS, THAT IF
YOU SEND SOMEONE TO PRISON THE
IMPACT ON THEIR LIFE IS WORSE,
AND THEY ARE MORE LIKELY TO RE
IN FEND COMPARED TO WHICH COUNTY
JAIL SENTENCE. IF YOU SEND
SOMEONE IF YOU GIVE SOMEONE
PROBATION THEY HAVE BETTER
OUTCOMES THAN IF YOU SEND THEM
TO COUNTY JAIL, AND EVEN BETTER
YET, OUR PROGRAMS LIKE
DIVERSION. SO WHAT WAS NOT
MENTIONED TODAY? LAWS
ENFORCEMENT ASSISTED DIVERSION.
YES, THERE SHOULD BE
INTERVENTION. PEOPLE SHOULD BE
DETAINED WHEN THEY ARE BREAKING
THE LAW, BUT THEY ACTUALLY DON'T
NEED TO BE PROSECUTED AT THAT
LEVEL, THEY CAN BE DIVERTED. THE
IMPORTANT THING HERE IS ACTUALLY
INTERVENTION AND RESPONSE AND
INCARCERATION SHOULD BE RESERVED
FOR VIOLENT OFFENSES. THAT IS
WHAT WE WANT OUR COURT SYSTEM
AND OUR JAILS AND PRISONS TO
FOCUS ON AND WE'RE ACTUALLY
DOING THAT WELL. IN CALIFORNIA.
THE DATA SHOWS THAT VIOLENT
CRIME IS DOWN, SO SOMETHING IS
WORKING. AND WE NEED TO
REINFORCE THAT. THANK YOU. THANK
YOU VERY MUCH. AND WE ARE GOING
TO BE FOCUSING ON DIVERSION AND
ONE OF THE FOLLOWING MEETINGS.
MR CHAIR MEMBERS, JULIAN IVORIES
ON BEHALF OF LEGAL CALIFORNIA
CITIES VERY PLEASED WITH THE
HEARING, AND I APPRECIATE THE
HEARING. UM ONE OF THE, UH, TOP
PRIORITIES FOR CAL CITIES AND
2024, WHICH WAS JUST AVOID UPON
BY OUR MEMBERS A COUPLE WEEKS
AGO WAS TO ADDRESS CRIME WAS
ACTUALLY THE TOP VOTE GETTER
AMONGST OUR OUR OUR MEMBERS. UM
AND THAT INCLUDES RETAIL THEFT
AND SHOPLIFTING, BUT AT THE SAME
TIME NOT GOING BACK TO MASS
INCARCERATION, SO I WANTED TO
LINE A LINE ARE COMMENTS WITH
THOSE OF THE RETAILER'S
ASSOCIATION AS FAR AS DEALING
WITH REPEAT OFFENDERS, BUT
DEALING THAT WITH DIVERSION
PROGRAMS GETTING THEM INTO THE
HELP THAT THEY MIGHT NEED,
BECAUSE A LOT OF THOSE
INDIVIDUALS DO HAVE MENTAL
HEALTH. OR SUBSTANCE USE
DISORDER ALSO WANT TO SAY WE
APPRECIATE VERY MUCH THE BSE SEE
GROUNDS WHICH WERE PROVIDED TO
33 CITIES. WHILE THAT DIDN'T
COVER ALL THE CITIES IN THE
STATE, OBVIOUSLY OR EVEN THOSE
IN THE URBAN AREAS, ANECDOTALLY
HEARD FROM MANY JURISDICTIONS,
EVEN THOUGH THERE'S JUST SIT OUT
IN SEPTEMBER WAS A REALLY HELPED
ORGANIZED RETAIL THEFT ISSUE AS
FAR AS GETTING ADVANCED
TECHNOLOGY, LICENSE PLATE
READERS AND WHATNOT, SO WE
CERTAINLY WOULD SUPPORT ANY
ADDITIONAL FUNDING THERE. AND UH
I THINK THAT'S IT. THANK YOU SO
MUCH. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. GOOD
AFTERNOON CHAIR AND MEMBERS
DANIEL SANCHEZ ON BEHALF OF THE
CHIEF PROBATION OFFICERS OF
CALIFORNIA APPRECIATE THE
DISCUSSION TODAY, UM, AND IN THE
DISCUSSION AROUND THE SAFETY
ISSUES, IN PARTICULAR THAT OUR
COMMUNITIES ARE FACING EVERY DAY
AS THIS COMMITTEE AND THE
LEGISLATURE CONTINUE TO LOOK AT
THE COMPLEXITIES AROUND THIS AND
THE NECESSARY SOLUTIONS WE
REALLY ENCOURAGE, OBVIOUSLY HAS
BEEN DISCUSSED HERE TO LOOK AT
THIS HOLISTICALLY. UM WE, UM
REALLY MUST RECOGNIZE THAT IT'S
TIME TO REINSERT BOTH
ACCOUNTABILITY AND THE
OPPORTUNITIES FOR MEANINGFUL
REHABILITATION INTO LAW. IT'S
IMPERATIVE THAT WE ALSO LOOK AT
THE UNDERLYING CAUSES. UM UH, IN
THE REAL NEEDS OF OUR
COMMUNITIES ON THIS ISSUE. THE
CONNECTION BETWEEN SUBSTANCE USE
UM, AND CRIMINAL BEHAVIOR CANNOT
BE IGNORED. NOR CAN THE, UM
LINKAGE BETWEEN GREATER ACCESS
TO DRUG TREATMENT. WITH THOSE
ACCOUNTABILITY MEASURES AGAIN
UNDER THE HEADER OF MAKING SURE
WE'RE HAVING MEANINGFUL,
MEANINGFUL REHABILITATION,
PROBATION DEPARTMENTS SUPERVISED
AND CONNECT WITH PEOPLE ON THESE
IMPORTANT SERVICES, SUCH AS DRUG
TREATMENT AND PROVIDE THE
NECESSARY INTERVENTIONS, AND WE
KNOW THAT ADDITIONAL TOOLS ARE
NECESSARY TO ACHIEVE THIS
BALANCE OF ACCOUNTABILITY. AND
SUCCESS REQUIRED TO AVOID THE
OUTCOMES THAT WE'VE HEARD HERE
TODAY. SO WHILE SOME OF THE
CHANGES WE KNOW TO THE LAW MAY
NEED VOTER APPROVAL, UM THERE
ARE ADDITIONAL NON PROP 47
POLICIES THAT WE CAN ACT ON NOW
THAT, UM, BRING FORWARD THIS
NECESSARY BALANCE OF
INTERVENTIONS, OPPORTUNITY AND
ACCOUNTABILITY. AND SO WE LOOK
FORWARD TO THOSE CONVERSATIONS
WITH THIS COMMITTEE. THANK YOU.
MR CHAIR AND MEMBERS ALEX TORRES
WITH BROWNSTEIN HERE ON BEHALF
OF TWO CLIENTS TODAY,
REPRESENTING A PRE SIGNIFICANT
CROSS SECTION OF CALIFORNIA'S
BUSINESS COMMUNITY, FIRST AND
FOREMOST, THERE WERE MULTIPLE
POINTS, DATA POINTS AND
DISCUSSIONS AROUND THE UNIQUE
IMPACT OF RETAIL THEFT ON THE
BAY AREA ON BEHALF OF THE
BARRIER COUNCIL, REPRESENTING
NUMBER 320 OF THE LARGEST
EMPLOYERS IN THE NINE COUNTY BAY
AREA. I WANT TO EXPRESS OUR
THANKS TO YOU, MR CHAIR, AS WELL
AS SPEAKER RIVAS FOR PUTTING
TOGETHER THIS HEARING. UH YOU
KNOW, WE JUST LAUNCHED A PUBLIC
SAFETY COMMITTEE THAT IS
COMPRISED OF SOME OF THE BAY
AREA'S BUSINESS LEADERS. AND SO
LOOK FORWARD. THERE'S A LOT OF I
THINK DOORS FOR POTENTIAL
CONVERSATION HERE ADDRESSING A
LOT OF DIFFERENT PIECES OF THIS
ISSUE, SO LOOK FORWARD TO BEING
A RESOURCE WHERE WE CAN ALSO
HERE TODAY ON BEHALF OF THE NEW
CALIFORNIA COALITION OF CIVIC
ADVOCACY ORGANIZATION FOCUSED ON
MOBILIZING THE STATES 700 PLUS
LOCAL CHAMBERS OF COMMERCE,
CIVIC AND INDUSTRY GROUPS AND
ETHNIC CHAMBERS SO AGAIN ON
BEHALF OF NEW CALIFORNIA
COALITION CEO TRACY HERNANDEZ
AGAIN ONE EXTEND OUR THANK YOU
LOOK FORWARD TO THE CONVERSATION
TO COME. THANK YOU. MR CHAIR AND
MEMBERS. HELLO I'M MEGAN HUBER,
ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR
FOR THE CITY OF CITRUS HEIGHTS.
YOU HAVE A LOT OF GREAT EXPERTS
HERE TO WEIGH IN ON POTENTIAL
ROOT CAUSES AND POTENTIAL
SOLUTIONS. I'M HERE TO
UNDERSCORE THAT THE MORE WE
DON'T TRY SOMETHING NEW, THE
MORE WE DON'T IDEA AND REITERATE
THE MORE BUSINESSES WILL DIE IN
REAL TIME. IT IS MY JOB TO
ATTRACT AND RETAIN LOCAL
BUSINESS FOR THE CITRUS HEIGHTS
ECONOMY. RETAILERS OUR NUMBER
TWO INDUSTRY SECTOR BY BOTH
EMPLOYMENT AND REVENUE
GENERATION. AND I CAN TELL YOU
THAT, YES, OUR NATIONAL
RETAILERS, LUCKILY ARE RESILIENT
. BUT WHAT REALLY SUFFERS FROM A
BUSINESS ATTRACTION PERSPECTIVE,
WE'RE NOT GOING TO BRING IN ANY
OUT OF STATE BUSINESS WHATSOEVER
. CALIFORNIA HAS A PERMANENT
BLACK MARK ON ITS RECORD RIGHT
NOW BECAUSE OF HOW DIFFICULT IT
IS TO DO BUSINESS AND HOW
PREVALENT THE RETAIL THEFT
STORY. HAS BECOME SECOND IN
TERMS OF BUSINESS RETENTION.
IT'S OUR SMALL BUSINESSES THAT
ARE GOING TO SUFFER AND ATROPHY.
SO REALLY, WHAT WILL LEFT WHAT
WILL BE LEFT WITH IS A BUSINESS
COMMUNITY THAT'S HOMOGENOUS AND
MADE UP OF A COUPLE OF RETAILERS
. AT BEST, WE LOSE OUR
NEIGHBORHOOD VIBRANCY AND OUR
COMMUNITY IDENTITY. SO THANK YOU
FOR GIVING ATTENTION TO THIS AND
KNOW THAT CITIES WILL WORK WITH
EVERYONE INVOLVED TO MOVE THE
NEEDLE. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
CHAIRS MEMBER OF COUNCIL. UM,
REMEMBER THIS COMMITTEE ALEX
TURCOTTE, CHIEF OF POLICE FOR
THE CITY OF CITRUS HEIGHTS HERE
TO REPRESENT NOT ONLY MY PD, BUT
MY COMMUNITY. UM IT'S BEEN SAID
HERE, BUT THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR
FOCUSING ON THIS VERY
COMPLICATED ISSUE. I AGREE WITH
MUCH OF WHAT THE FELLOW
PANELISTS HAVE SAID THIS IS NOT
AN EASY FIX. THIS IS NOT AN EASY
SOLUTION. INCARCERATION ON ITS
OWN IS NOT THE ONLY ANSWER. WE
HAVE ADDICTION, MENTAL HEALTH
MANDATED TREATMENT DIVERSION, AS
ARE ALL GREAT OPTIONS. I CAN'T
SPEAK TO THE HOLISTIC DATA, BUT
I CAN SPEAK TO LOCALLY IN MY
COMMUNITY PERCEPTION ABSOLUTELY
DOES MATTER. THE TRAFFIC SCHOOL
CONVERSATION THAT WAS BROUGHT UP
FOR THEFT. WE USED TO RUN THAT
PROGRAM. WHEN THERE WAS A
CONSEQUENCE WE COULD DIVERT
PEOPLE JUST LOCALLY AWAY FROM
THEIR FIRST CONVICTION. WITH THE
CONSEQUENCE OF THEFT HANGING
OVER THEIR HEAD AND TEACH THEM
ABOUT THINGS LIKE LOSS AND
SHRINKAGE AND CONSUMER PRICING
AND THOSE TYPE OF ISSUES WITH
YOUNG PEOPLE. AND IT WORKED OUT
VERY WELL. UM OUR CITY STANDS
STEADFAST AND BEING CREATIVE,
INNOVATIVE AND TRYING TO FIND
WAYS TO HOLD PEOPLE ACCOUNTABLE
ARE BUSINESS OWNERS ARE ASKING
FOR IT. ARE RESIDENTS ARE ASKING
FOR IT. WE'RE HERE TO PARTNER
PUBLISHED EVERY SINGLE INCIDENT
OF DATA THAT I HAVE IN MY
DEPARTMENT DAILY ONLINE. WE'RE
HERE TO PARTNER WITH THAT WE
WERE RECIPIENTS OF THE B S. C C
GRANT FOR RETAIL THEFT. WE'RE
LOOKING TO LEVERAGE TECHNOLOGY.
WE WANT TO BE PART OF THIS
CONVERSATION. WE WANT TO BRING
ACCOUNTABILITY BECAUSE BOTH MY
RESIDENTS, MY BUSINESS OWNERS
AND SUSPECTS IN THE STREET THAT
WE TALKED TO FEEL THAT THERE IS
NO CONSEQUENCE. I THINK THERE'S
PLENTY THAT WE CAN DO HERE AND
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR
ATTENTION WITH THIS. THANK YOU
VERY MUCH. GOOD AFTERNOON CHAIR
AND MEMBERS. MY NAME IS DUKE
COONEY ON BEHALF OF A C L U
CALIFORNIA ACTION. I REALLY WANT
TO THANK THE COMMITTEE MEMBERS
FOR THEIR THOUGHTFUL DISCUSSION.
AND OF COURSE, OUR PANELISTS FOR
THEIR INSIGHT ON THIS INCREDIBLY
, AN IMMENSELY MULTILAYERED
ISSUE. OUR HOPE IS THAT AS THESE
COMMITTEE HEARINGS CONTINUE,
THAT THERE IS AN EMPHASIS ON
DATA DRIVEN SOLUTIONS THAT TAKE
INTO ACCOUNT SOME OF THE ISSUES
THAT ASSEMBLYWOMAN BONTA
MENTIONED. THE OVERLAP OF
POVERTY OF HOUSING INSECURITY.
UM COLLOQUIAL NORMAN AS
COLLOQUIALLY KNOWN AS CRIMES AND
SURVIVAL, AND HOW THOSE FOLKS
WILL SIT AT THE CROSS SECTION OF
ANY PUNITIVE MEASURES GOING
FORWARD. UM BUT WE ARE
ENCOURAGED BY THE CONVERSATIONS
THAT HAPPENED TODAY, ESPECIALLY
THE NON PUNITIVE APPROACHES THAT
SEEMED TO HAVE HAD SUCCESS IN IN
ADDRESSING RETAIL THEFT AND SOME
OF THIS LOWER LEVEL CRIME THAT
WE'RE SEEING. SO THANK YOU SO
MUCH. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. GOOD
AFTERNOON, GLENN BACCHUS FOR THE
YELLOW BAKER CENTER FOR HUMAN
RIGHTS TO BE BRIEF. WE'D LIKE TO
WEAR A UNIONIZED NONPROFIT. WE'D
LIKE TO ALIGN OUR COMMENTS WITH
THOSE OF UFCW, SAYING THAT PART
OF BASIC CRIME PREVENTION IS
HAVING STAFF HAVING CHECKOUT
LINES. THOSE ARE STRONG AND WE
WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE NOT
ASKING THE CALIFORNIA TAXPAYER
TO BACKFILL THE RESPONSIBILITIES
OF RETAILERS TO HIGHER UP AND
CREATE SAFE, SECURE PLACES FOR
EMPLOYEES AND CONSUMERS.
ADDITIONALLY, WE WANT TO GO INTO
A BIT GOING INTO A BAD BUDGET
ENVIRONMENT. WE WANT TO ASK YOU
TO INVEST IN THINGS THAT WORK.
THINGS THAT ARE COST EFFECTIVE
LAW ENFORCEMENT CELLS. PRISONS
ARE EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE. WE WANT
TO HOLD UP THE OPPORTUNITY FOR
DIVERSION, PRE PLEA PRE BOOKING
AND POST CONVICTION SO THAT
PEOPLE DON'T HAVE LONG TERM
CONSEQUENCES WHICH MAKE THEM
UNEMPLOYABLE. AND ON HOW ZOBEL
CONVICTIONS HAVE LONG TERM
CONSEQUENCES. THAT'S ALSO PART
OF THE DISCUSSION. HOW CAN
PEOPLE APPREHENDED HELD
ACCOUNTABLE? LEARN BUT MOVE ON,
SO THEY CAN STILL BE EMPLOYABLE.
HOUSING AND EDUCATION HAVE
ACCESS TO EDUCATION. THANK YOU.
THANK YOU. GOOD AFTERNOON.
LESLIE CALDWELL, HOUSTON FROM
THE CALIFORNIA PUBLIC DEFENDERS
ASSOCIATION. I WAS A PUBLIC
DEFENDER, A DEPUTY AND THEN
ULTIMATELY RUNNING A DEPARTMENT
FOR NEARLY 40 YEARS. UH I LIVED
THROUGH THE WHAT I CALL DARK
AGES OF THE NINETIES. I HAD
CASES THAT NEARLY BROKE ME AND
DID BREAK MY CLIENTS CLIENT WHO
WENT TO PRISON FOR 32 YEARS TO
LIFE. FOR STEALING $8.91. I DO
NOT WANT TO SEE US GO BACKWARDS,
AND I AM HEARTENED TO HEAR MANY
OF THE COMMENTS. I DO WANT TO
TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT
PERCEPTION. THERE WAS A COMMENT
ABOUT, UM, THE PUBLIC PERCEPTION
OR X NUMBER PERCENTAGE OF PEOPLE
BELIEVE THAT RETAIL THEFT OR
THEFT IS A REALLY, REALLY BIG,
IMPORTANT CRIME, UM OR ISSUE AND
I WANT TO SPEAK TO PERCEPTION
BECAUSE I HEARD POLICE CHIEF
AFTER POLICE CHIEF ON TELEVISION
IN THESE KINDS OF HEARINGS IN
THE ASSEMBLY PUBLIC SAFETY
COMMITTEE IN THE SENATE PUBLIC
SAFETY COMMITTEE, UM OVER AND
OVER SAYING, WELL, WE CAN'T DO
ANYTHING BECAUSE OF PROP 47 WHEN
THE PUBLIC HEARS THEIR POLICE
CHIEF SAY THAT TO WRAP UP OVER
AND OVER AND OVER, THEY'RE GOING
TO BELIEVE THAT THE PROBLEM IS
BECAUSE OF PROP 47. I JUST WANT
TO REITERATE INCARCERATION IS
NOT THE ACCOUNTABILITY WE NEED.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH. GOOD
AFTERNOON. MARCO GEORGE, CO
CHAIR OF THE CALIFORNIA PUBLIC
DEFENDERS ASSOCIATION
LEGISLATIVE COMMITTEE. THANK YOU
FOR HAVING THIS HEARING. I THINK
IT WAS REALLY INFORMATIVE. UM I
DO WANT TO SAY THAT THE THINGS
THAT HAVE MADE A DIFFERENCE IN
MY CLIENT'S LIFE FOR THE
DIVERSION PROGRAMS AND THE
SHIFTING OF RESOURCES FROM
PRISONS TO OTHER. PUBLIC GOODS,
HOUSING, EDUCATION, MENTAL
HEALTH TREATMENT. I BELIEVE
THOSE ARE THE THINGS THAT WILL
CHANGE. AND IN TERMS OF
ACCOUNTABILITY. I THINK THAT WE
HEARD TODAY ABOUT WAYS OF
ACCOUNTABILITY THAT WILL STOP.
THIS EPIDEMIC IF YOU WANT TO
CALL IT THAT, AND THOSE ARE
PRIMARILY CORPORATE SOLUTIONS.
AND WOULD ASK YOU TO EXTEND THE
AMBIT OF THIS UM. SELECT
COMMITTEE TO ADDRESS SOME OF
THOSE ISSUES. I THINK THE
CELLPHONE EXAMPLE IN THE KILL
SWITCH WAS BRILLIANT, CLOSING
DOWN THE MARKETS ON, UM AMAZON
EBAY. BUT THOSE ARE THE
SOLUTIONS. SO AGAIN THANK YOU
VERY MUCH, AND I'M HEARTENED BY
YOUR COMMENTS. THANK YOU VERY
MUCH. LAST YEAR. LAST ONE. THANK
YOU, MR CHAIRMAN MEMBERS RYAN
SHERMAN WITH THE RIVERSIDE
SHERIFF'S ASSOCIATION AND A
DOZEN OR SO OTHER LOCAL LAW
ENFORCEMENT ASSOCIATIONS AS YOUR
SOME OF THE EXHIBITORS HERE
TODAY FROM THE PUBLIC POLICY
INSTITUTE OF CALIFORNIA RECENTLY
REPORTED CALIFORNIA'S VIOLENT
CRIME RATE IS 31% HIGHER THAN
THE NATIONAL AVERAGE. THAT'S
ACCORDING TO THE P P I. C.
SIMILARLY NATIONWIDE ROBBERY
RATE BETWEEN 2019 AND 2022.
EXCUSE ME. UH, DECLINED. UH BUT
80 18% UM. DURING THOSE YEARS,
HOWEVER, IN CALIFORNIA JUST
DECLINED. JUST 6. UH NATIONALLY
IN CALIFORNIA PROPERTY CRIME HAS
BEEN LOWERED. HOWEVER UH,
COMPARED PRE PANDEMIC LEVELS IN
CALIFORNIA WERE ACTUALLY HIGHER,
EVEN THOUGH NATIONALLY IT'S GONE
DOWN. THINK ABOUT 8. SO THOSE
ARE SOME OF THE FIGURES FROM P P
I. C UM YEAH, I HOPE YOU GUYS
CAN TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION
THOSE. I DON'T KNOW THAT ANYBODY
IS ADVOCATING RIGHT NOW FOR, UH,
ANYONE SOLUTION? JUST SOMETHING
THAT WORKS AND WE'D LOVE TO BE
PARTNERS WITH YOU AS WELL. WE
START THIS NEXT LEGISLATIVE
YEAR. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I
WANT TO THANK EVERYONE WHO
PROVIDED TESTIMONY TODAY. THIS
CONCLUDES THEIR PUBLIC COMMENT
PERIOD. IF ANY MEMBERS OF THE
PUBLIC WHO WERE NOT ABLE TO
ATTEND TODAY OR SPEAK TODAY, I
WOULD LIKE TO PROVIDE INPUT WE
PROVIDE. WE ENCOURAGE YOU TO
PROVIDE WRITTEN TESTIMONY, WHICH
CAN BE SENT TO MY STAFF AS
LISTED ON THE SELECT COMMITTEE
WEBSITE. UM, WITH THAT. UM I'D
LIKE TO TURN TO OUR CLOSING AND
BEFORE I LIKE TO, UH, MAKE MY
CLOSING REMARKS. I'D LIKE TO, UM
, GIVE EVERY MEMBER HERE TODAY
THAT OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE ANY
FINAL THOUGHTS I'D LIKE TO START
WITH SOME OF THE MEMBER MCCARTY
AND THEN WE'LL GO TO START ON
THIS SIDE AND WORK ALL THE WAY
THROUGH AND I'LL CONCLUDE, SO IT
WAS INCREDIBLY LIKE, FIRST OF
ALL, THANK YOU. OUR CAUCUS CHAIR
AND CHAIR OF THE SELECT
COMMITTEE. UM ALL THINGS
IMPORTANT TO CALIFORNIA AND
AGAIN THANK OUR SPEAKER FOR
PUTTING THIS PANEL TOGETHER, AND
I THINK IT'S FAIR TO SAY THAT WE
HAVE STILL, UM MANY MORE
QUESTIONS THAN ANSWERS, AND
WE'LL GET TO THAT WITH OUR WITH
OUR HEARINGS COMING UP, BUT I
THINK THAT CLARITY IS INACTION
IS NOT ACCEPTABLE. AND
ESPECIALLY IN REGARDS TO RETAIL
THEFT AND REPEAT OFFENDERS. AND
I LIKE WHAT YOU SAID EARLIER. WE
DON'T HAVE TO GO BACK WHERE WE
WERE THE NINETIES. SOME OF THE
PULSES WE DIDN'T LIKE, BUT WE
NEED MORE. BALANCE AND SMARTER
SOLUTIONS FOCUSING ON
ACCOUNTABILITY AND I'M COMMITTED
AS A PUBLIC SAFETY CHAIR WITH
YOU AND THIS COMMITTEE AND I
KNOW YOU'RE A MEMBER OF THE
PUBLIC SAFETY COMMITTEE. TO
WORKING WITH OUR CRIMINAL
JUSTICE, REFORM ADVOCATES AND
LAW ENFORCEMENT TO COME UP WITH
A REAL REASONABLE PRACTICAL
SOLUTIONS MOVING FORWARD AND I
WILL VERY SHORTLY BE INTRODUCING
LEGISLATION DEALING WITH THIS
ISSUE AND REVISITING PROP 47
WITH SOME SMART FIXES FOCUSING
ON WHAT WE HEARD, WHICH IS MORE
COLLABORATIVE COURTS, MORE
DIVERSION, UM MORE PROGRAMS AND
HELP PEOPLE STAY OUT OF THE
CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM, BUT
ALSO ACCOUNTABILITY ON THE FLIP
SIDE IF THOSE AREN'T ACHIEVED
ALONG THE WAY. SO UH, LOOK
FORWARD TO THE FUTURE
DISCUSSIONS AND THANK YOU.
PACHECO. THANK YOU, MR CHAIR,
AND, UM AND I WANT TO THANK
EVERYBODY WHO HAS PARTICIPATED
TODAY. I FOUND THE INFORMATION
TO BE VERY VALUABLE. AND HAVING
THESE, THESE TYPES OF
DISCUSSIONS ARE IMPORTANT FOR US
TO SOLVE THIS VERY COMPLEX ISSUE
. IT'S NOT AN EASY SOLUTION, AND
SO I REALLY APPRECIATED ALL THE
COMMENTS FROM THE PANELISTS AND
EVEN THE SPEAKERS WHO SPOKE
TODAY DURING PUBLIC COMMENT. I'M
LOOKING FORWARD TO FURTHER
DISCUSSIONS, SO THAT WAY WE CAN.
TRY TO PASS LEGISLATION TO HELP
EASE THIS PROBLEM. I KNOW IT'S
NOT GOING TO GO AWAY OVERNIGHT,
JUST LIKE IT DIDN'T COME DIDN'T
ARRIVE OVERNIGHT, EITHER. IT WAS
YEARS IN THE PROGRESS AS TO
RETAIL THEFT INCREASING, BUT I
WOULD LIKE TO WORK ON SOLUTIONS.
SO THANK YOU. ALL BUT HAPPY
HOLIDAYS, EVERYONE THE MEMBER
SZABO. UM. THE THANK YOU SO MUCH
FOR CONVENING THIS AND THE
PHENOMENAL PANELS AND PANELISTS
THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE AND
EVERYONE WHO PARTICIPATED TODAY.
UM I DO. I AGREE THAT WE'RE
LEAVING WITH A LOT MORE
QUESTIONS THAN MAYBE WE CAME
WITH. UM BUT I THINK THAT WE ALL
AGREE. WE KNOW. YOU KNOW, THIS
IS A SERIOUS ISSUE. WE KNOW THAT
WE NEED TO RESPOND TO THE REAL
ISSUES AND ALSO MAKE SURE THAT
WE'RE UM. WE'RE GIVING OUR
COMMUNITY GOOD AND ACCURATE
INFORMATION AROUND
MISINFORMATION THAT DOES EXIST.
UM AND YOU KNOW, I, UM I THINK
THAT SOME OF THE GOOD NEWS OUT
OF THIS IS THAT WHILE THERE'S A
LOT OF QUESTIONS, THERE'S ALSO
SOME REALLY CLEAR ANSWERS ABOUT
WHAT DOES WORK AND WHAT IS
REALLY EFFECTIVE. UM AND SO IN A
LOT OF WAYS, YOU KNOW, IT'S VERY
CLEAR COMING OUT OF THIS. WE
DON'T HAVE TO REINVENT THE WHEEL
. UM WE KNOW THE THINGS THAT ARE
WORKING, AND UM, AND THE THINGS
THAT CAN BE REALLY EFFECTIVE
ABOUT, YOU KNOW, CUTTING OFF THE
SOURCE OF PEOPLE BEING ABLE TO
RESELL THINGS. OR UM, YOU KNOW,
AROUND HARDENING THAT RETAILERS
CAN DO STAFFING, YOU KNOW THOSE
KINDS OF SOLUTIONS AND ALSO
AROUND DIVERSION AND EARLY
INTERVENTION REALLY BEING THE
MOST EFFECTIVE? UM AS WELL, SO
I'M REALLY LOOKING FORWARD TO
CONTINUING TO WORK ON THIS
LOOKING FORWARD TO FUTURE PANELS
AND HEARING WHAT THEY HAVE TO
SAY AND BRING TO THE
CONVERSATION AND UM AND
APPRECIATE YOU KNOW, ALL MY
COLLEAGUES BEING HERE TODAY TO
DIVE INTO THIS TOGETHER. THANK
YOU. ASSEMBLYMEMBER'S
PETRIE-NORRIS. WELL, THANK YOU
AGAIN, MR CHAIR FOR CONVENING
THIS HEARING AND THANK YOU TO
ALL OF OUR PANELISTS FOR
PARTICIPATING. I THOUGHT OUR
SESSIONS AND OUR CONVERSATION.
WE'RE INCREDIBLY INFORMATIVE. I
LEARNED A LOT. I THINK YOU KNOW
A COUPLE OF THE THINGS THAT I'M
REALLY TAKING AWAY. UM I THINK
ONE OF ONE OF OUR PANELISTS AT
UM, SUMMARIZED THAT THE MOST
POWERFUL DETERRENT WHETHER WE'RE
TALKING ABOUT RETAIL THEFT OR
ANYTHING ELSE IS CERTAINTY OF A
CONSEQUENCE. AND I THINK AS ANY
PARENT WHO'S HAD A TODDLER WILL
TELL YOU A CONSEQUENCE. FREE
WORLD ENVIRONMENT IS NOT A WAY
TO BUILD. THE FUNCTION IN
SOCIETY. UM BUT I WOULD ALSO BE
REALLY CLEAR BECAUSE I THINK
SOMETIMES WHEN PEOPLE HEAR THE
WORD CONSEQUENCE, I THINK WE
MEAN OH, GOSH, WE'RE GONNA LIKE
EVERYBODY UP AND THROW AWAY THE
KEY, AND I DON'T THINK ANYONE IS
SAYING THAT I DON'T THINK ANYONE
ON THIS DIOCESE SAYING THAT I
DON'T THINK ANYONE THAT WE HEARD
FROM TODAY IS SAYING THAT UM,
AND ONE THING ONE THREAD THAT I
THINK REALLY RAN THROUGH OUR
PANELS AND WE HEARD FROM FOLKS
THAT REPRESENTED. YOU KNOW THEY
SECTION OF POSITIONS ON THIS
ISSUE WAS THE IMPORTANCE AND THE
EFFECTIVENESS OF DIVERSION
PROGRAMS. UM AND SO I THINK THE
FACT THAT OVER THE COURSE OF THE
LAST 10 YEARS HAVE SEEN
PARTICIPATION IN DIVERSION
PROGRAMS DROPPED BY SOME 67. IS
YOU KNOW FOR ME? THAT IS THE BIG
BLINKING LIGHT AND I THINK
FIGURING OUT HOW WE CAN GET
PEOPLE INTO DIVERSION PROGRAMS.
UH AND CHANGE THE COURSE OF THAT
TREND. I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE
SOME REALLY, REALLY POWERFUL
WORK THAT THIS COMMUNITY CAN DO
SO AGAIN. THANK YOU, EVERYONE
FOR PARTICIPATING AND LOOK
FORWARD TO CONTINUING THIS
CONVERSATION. REALITIES. THANK
YOU, MR CHAIR. UM SO AGAIN. AH
AS MY COLLEAGUES HAVE ALL SAID
ALREADY WHEN I THINK THE
PANELISTS THAT CAME UP CAITLIN
MAG AND MAGNUS. THANK YOU GUYS.
FOR YOUR GUYS. INTEL ON THAT. IT
WAS VERY HELPFUL, I THINK,
EDUCATE A LOT OF PEOPLE UP HERE.
WITH ME AND RACHEL WITH THE
CALIFORNIA RETAILERS ASSOCIATION
. OBVIOUSLY, A LOT OF DATA THERE
AND I ENCOURAGE TO CONTINUE
SPEAKING WITH AND I AND MY
COLLEAGUES AS WELL WORKING WITH
THEM AS WELL. AND JEFF, THANK
YOU FOR YOUR INSIGHT AS WELL.
THAT HELPED A LOT. UH A LOT OF
INSIGHT ON THAT. AND I THANK YOU
FOR THAT. AND I VE ALSO FOR
COMING IN PROVIDING WHAT YOU DID
KIND OF GIVE THEM AN INSIGHT ON
WHAT GOES ON IN THE COURTHOUSE.
THAT'S THAT'S A BIG THING THAT A
LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T UNDERSTAND
IT, SAYS ONE THING ON PAPER, BUT
TO PUT IT INTO PRACTICE TOTALLY
DIFFERENT THING AND AS FAR AS IT
GOES WITH INCARCERATING THEM IN
THE JAIL, AS OPPOSED TO THE
PRISONERS WITH A B ONE OR NINE.
THAT'S ALSO SOMETHING THAT
PEOPLE ARE STILL TRYING TO
LEARN. WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? I
DON'T REALLY UNDERSTAND WHAT
THAT MEANT. BUT THAT THAT WAS A
GOOD EXPLANATION THAT YOU GAVE.
SO THANK YOU FOR THAT. AND CHIEF
ALSO, THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE
AS WELL AND DOING THAT. AS YOU
GUYS MAY KNOW, TODAY, WE TALKED
A LOT ABOUT WHAT? WHAT WE COULD
DO TO HELP OR IDEAS THAT CAME
OUT SELF CHECKOUT WAS THE THING
I SEE THE GROCERIES ASSOCIATION
IS HERE, SO I KNOW THAT'S ONE
THING THAT I'VE SPOKE WITH THEM
ABOUT. UH A LOT OF THEM ARE
RECOGNIZING THAT THE SELF
CHECKOUT IS SOMETHING THAT NEEDS
TO WORK ON TO DETER CRIME GOING
ON, AND THEY'RE DOING THEIR OWN
THING AS MUCH AS THEY CAN ON
THEIR OWN, AND I'VE GONE AND
VISITED WITH OTHER GROCERIES AND
STORES AND EVEN RETAILER STORES
AND FINDING OUT THERE DOING
THEIR OWN THING TO TRY AND HELP
DETER CRIME IN THERE. IN THEIR
STORES. PETTY THEFT WITH A PRIOR
. OBVIOUSLY WE TALKED ABOUT THAT
TODAY. ALSO, WE NEED TO BRING
THAT BACK. UH AND DIVERSION
DIVERSION KEEPS COMING UP WITH
MY COLLEAGUES AND THEIR RIGHT
AND I'VE SEEN IT FIRSTHAND. I'VE
BEEN PART OF DRUG COURT. I'VE
BEEN PART OF THE DIVERSION
PROGRAM. I'VE SEEN PEOPLE'S
LIVES GET TURNED AROUND WITH IT,
AND IT'S A REAL THING, AND I'M
VERY PROUD AND HAPPY TO BRING
ALL THAT BACK AS MUCH AS WE CAN,
BUT WE CAN'T BRING IT BACK
UNLESS WE CAN GET THEIR SEATS IN
THOSE CLASSES, AND THE ONLY WAY
YOU CAN DO THAT IS WITH
CONSEQUENCES. AND SO THAT'S WHAT
WE NEED TO BRING BACK. I KNOW
THIS. THIS MAY NOT HAVE BEEN
OVERNIGHT, BUT WE ALL VOTED FOR
THE, UH SAFE NEIGHBORHOODS AND
SAFE SCHOOLS ACT RIGHT? AND, UH,
YOU KNOW THAT WAS PROP 47. AND
NOW HERE WE ARE TODAY
REEVALUATING WHAT IT IS AND WHAT
IT WAS ABOUT. AND SO I'M GLAD
WE'RE HAVING THIS CONVERSATIONS
CHAIR. THANK YOU FOR DOING THIS.
I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO WORKING
MORE WITH THIS AND THANK YOU.
HAPPY HOLIDAYS. THANK YOU. SO
THANK YOU MEMBERS FOR TAKING
PART OF YOUR HOLIDAY PERIOD TO
TRAVEL TO SACRAMENTO AND
SPENDING TIME ON THIS IMPORTANT
ISSUE TODAY. I'D ALSO LIKE TO
THANK OUR PANELISTS AND MEMBERS
OF THE PUBLIC AND THE SUPPORT
STAFF THAT MADE TODAY HAPPEN,
INCLUDING THE SERGEANTS AND
TECHNOLOGICAL AND COMMUNICATIONS
EXPERTS THAT ARE BEHIND THE
SCENES, THE SPEAKER STAFF AND MY
OWN PERSONAL STATS. I WANT TO
THANK THEM. YOU KNOW WHAT IS
HAPPENING IN OUR COMMUNITIES IS
UNACCEPTABLE. AND WE KNOW THAT
WE NEED TO ACT WITH URGENCY. BUT
WE ALSO KNOW WE MUST LOOK AT
FACTS AND FIND SOLUTIONS THAT
ACTUALLY WORK. TODAY WE HEARD A
LOT OF IMPORTANT INFORMATION
FROM A VARIETY OF PERSPECTIVES.
WE HEARD THAT THERE MAY BE GAPS
IN OUR LAWS AND ENFORCEMENT
SYSTEMS, ESPECIALLY WITH RESPECT
TO ORGANIZED REPEAT OFFENDERS
AND MISDEMEANOR ENFORCEMENT.
WE'VE HEARD FROM LAW ENFORCEMENT
THAT THEY MAY NOT HAVE THE
RESOURCES THAT THEY NEED. WE
HEARD THAT ONE OF THE AREAS THAT
WE SHOULD FOCUS ON OUR
PREVENTIVE MEASURES AND
DIVERSION PROGRAMS, AND WE HEARD
THAT INCREASING PENALTIES MAY
NOT RESULT IN DETERRENTS.
DETERRENTS WE'RE LOOKING FOR.
WE'VE HEARD FROM REPRESENTATIVES
OF OUR WORKERS AND THE RETAILERS
TO THAT WE NEED TO FIND
SOLUTIONS THAT DON'T PUT WORKERS
IN HARM'S WAY. AND WE'VE HEARD
FROM PROPERTY OWNERS OF THEIR
URGENT CONCERN THAT SHOPPING
CENTERS ARE ON THE VERGE OF SOME
SHOPPING CENTERS ARE ON THE
VERGE OF FAILING AS LARGE
RETAILERS WITHDRAW AND SMALL
RETAILERS RETAILERS WHO DEPEND
ON THEM STRUGGLE AND ALSO FAIL.
AND WE KNOW THAT THIS IS JUST
THE BEGINNING WILL BE DELVING
INTO THE CHANGES THAT MAY BE
REQUIRED IN THE LAW,
UNDERSTANDING AND MORE DETAIL
HOW WE CAN INCREASE ENFORCEMENT
OF THE LAWS THAT ARE IN PLACE,
EXPLORING DIVERSION PROGRAMS AND
HEARING FROM PEOPLE ON THE
GROUND AND LOCAL JURISDICTIONS.
IN MY LIFE AND CAREER. I'VE COME
TO UNDERSTAND THAT WE TEND TO
AGREE ON MORE THAN WE DO NOT OUR
FAMILIES WANT THE SAME THINGS
THE SAME OPPORTUNITIES AND THE
SAME SHOT AT THE AMERICAN DREAM,
AND WE NEED TO WORK TOGETHER TO
ACHIEVE THAT WERE ALSO MORE
LIKELY TO COME TO THE BEST
SOLUTIONS WHEN WE LISTEN TO ALL
PERSPECTIVES, HAVE GENUINE
CONVERSATIONS WITH EACH OTHER
AND MAKE SURE EVERYONE IS HEARD.
THAT'S WHAT WE ENDEAVOR TO DO
TODAY. AND THIS HEARING IS
EVIDENCE THAT MANY OF YOU FEEL
JUST AS INVESTED. AS I DO, AND
RESPONDING TO THIS DIFFICULT
PROBLEM WITH THAT HAPPY HOLIDAYS
AND THANK YOU VERY MUCH THIS
HEARING IS CONCLUDED.