AS EVERYONE IS MIXING AND
MINGLING, WE'RE GOING TO CALL.
WE'RE GOING TO SAY GOOD MORNING
TO EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU,
WE'RE GOING TO CALL THE ARTS AND
ENTERTAINMENT, SPORTS AND
TOURISM AND PRIVACY AND CONSUMER
PROTECTION, JOINT INFORMATIONAL
HEARING, TO ORDER, AND WE'RE
GOING TO BE TALKING ABOUT THE
USAGE OF THE ARTIFICIAL
INTELLIGENCE, IN THE
ENTERTAINMENT INDUSTRY. LET ME
START BY THANKING, THE PANELISTS
, FOR YOUR ATTENDANCE HERE TODAY
AND YOUR PARTICIPATION IN, IN
TODAY'S HEARING, WHICH LET ME
UNDERSCORE, IT'S A VERY
IMPORTANT HEARING AND A VERY
IMPORTANT CONVERSATION. WE ARE
VERY GRATEFUL FOR YOUR
EXPERTISE, FOR YOUR PERSPECTIVE
THAT YOU WILL BE ADDING TO OUR
CONVERSATION ABOUT AI, THE
IMPACT TO THE MUSIC, ARTS, FILM,
TELEVISION PRODUCTION, INDUSTRY.
I WANT TO THANK THE STAFF, FOR
FROM BOTH COMMITTEES FOR BEING
HERE FOR HELP ORGANIZE TODAY'S,
INFORMATIONAL HEARING. I ALSO
WANT TO RECOGNIZE ONE, SPEAKER,
ROBERT RIVAS, FOR HIS LEADERSHIP
AND ONE APPROVING US TO MOVE
FORWARD AS A JOINT INFORMATIONAL
HEARINGS. AND ALSO, THE RULES
COMMITTEE, THE SERGEANTS WHO ARE
HERE WITH US, THE CAPITAL
SUPPORT OFFICE, WHO MADE ALL
TODAY'S, HEARING VERY, VERY
POSSIBLE. WE'RE GOING TO HEAR
FROM OUR PANELISTS, WHO WILL
TESTIFY AND THEN, AT THE
CONCLUSION OF EACH PANEL, WE
WILL OPEN UP FOR DISCUSSIONS,
FROM MEMBERS, WHO WILL ASK
QUESTIONS. AND CERTAINLY OUR
MEMBERS ON BOTH COMMITTEES WILL
BE HERE, TO JOIN US, WE WILL
ALSO WANT TO ALSO HAVE AN
OPPORTUNITY TO HEAR FROM, THE
CHAIRWOMAN HERSELF OF PRIVACY
AND CONSUMER PROTECTION,
ASSEMBLYWOMAN BAUER-KAHAN AND
OTHER MEMBERS WHO MAKES UP THESE
GREAT COMMITTEES, AFTER THE
PANEL'S FINISHED PRESENTING,
THEY WILL ALSO BE ABLE TO ASK
QUESTIONS OF THIS PANEL. WE WILL
ALSO BE SETTING ASIDE TIME, FOR
PUBLIC COMMENT. SO THE PUBLIC
WILL, IN FACT, HAVE AN
OPPORTUNITY TO ENGAGE IN THE
DISCUSSION AND BE PART OF THE
DISCUSSION. WE WILL ALSO ASK
THAT YOU PLEASE LIMIT YOUR
COMMENTS TO TWO MINUTES IF
POSSIBLE, BUT WE WILL GIVE
FLEXIBILITY IN THAT SPACE. WE
WILL ALSO ASK FOR YOUR, DECORUM,
WHETHER YOU AGREE OR DISAGREE,
WE SHOULDN'T HAVE TO KNOW IT.
AND SO WE WOULD ASK THAT YOU
CERTAINLY KEEP YOURSELF, KEEP IN
MIND THE RULES OF THE QUORUM OF
THIS HOUSE, THE PURPOSE OF THIS
HEARING IS TO LEARN MORE ABOUT
HOW ADVANCED, WITH THE
TECHNOLOGY AND OUR EFFECTIVE
THAT AFFECTS THE ENTERTAINMENT,
SPACE HERE IN CALIFORNIA AS
LABOR AS A LABOR STRIKE TOOK
PLACE, ACTORS AND WRITERS LAST
YEAR DEMONSTRATED THE SERIOUS
CONCERNS NOT ONLY ABOUT WAGES
AND BENEFITS, BUT ALSO ABOUT
THEIR OWN IDENTITY. THE CREATIVE
ECONOMY SPACE AROUND AI, HAS
CERTAINLY RAISED ITS VISIBILITY,
THAT THE STATE LEGISLATURE NEEDS
TO GET INVOLVED IN THIS
PARTICULAR PROCESS. CALIFORNIA
MUSIC ARTS, FILMS AND TELEVISION
STUDIOS ARE ICONIC TO OUR GREAT
STATE OF CALIFORNIA AND ACROSS,
AROUND THE WORLD. CALIFORNIA IS
KNOWN, IN THIS SPACE, AND WE
LEAD IN THIS SPACE. MEMBERS OF
THIS BODY, HAVE DEDICATED A LOT
OF TIME AND RESOURCES TO SUPPORT
THESE THIS INDUSTRY AND MOST
IMPORTANTLY, THE JOBS AND THE
OPPORTUNITIES FOR WORKERS, THAT
THEY PROVIDE THIS INDUSTRY IS
VERY, VERY IMPORTANT, TO THOSE
WHO ARE IN THIS SPACE, THOSE WHO
GO TO WORK EACH AND EVERY DAY IN
THIS CREATIVE ECONOMY, YOU ARE
IMPORTANT. WE HEAR YOU, WE SEE
YOU, WE SUPPORT YOU. THERE ARE
ALSO A NUMBER OF CONCERNS
RELATED TO CONSUMERS OF THESE
ENTERTAINMENT MEDIUMS AND HOW I
Â IS BEING UTILIZED TO GATHER
DATA, AND RECOGNIZE AND CONTENTS
, I YOU WILL HEAR MORE FROM OUR
CHAIRWOMAN, IN A FEW MOMENTS
WHEN HER OPENING REMARKS. I WANT
TO THANK AGAIN EACH AND EVERY
ONE OF YOU FOR THIS BEING PART
OF THIS EXCITING HEARING. WE
HAVE A VERY, VERY EXCITING
LINEUP TODAY WHERE YOU WILL BE
HEARING FROM ARTISTS,
REPRESENTATIVES OF RECORD
LABELS, AND EVEN CREATIVE
ASTROPHYSICISTS, ALSO, HERE
TODAY WE WANT TO AGAIN GIVE THE
PRESENTERS AN OPPORTUNITY TO
REALLY, DO A DEEP DIVE IN THIS
SO WE CAN HAVE A GREATER
UNDERSTANDING. SO WITH THAT
BEING SAID, I WANT TO PAUSE FOR
A MOMENT AND GIVE WAY TO MY
CO-HOST OR CO-CHAIR OF THIS,
INFORMATIONAL HEARING,
ASSEMBLYWOMAN BAUER-KAHAN,
PLEASE. JOHN. THANK YOU.
ASSEMBLY MEMBER GIBSON. AND I
WANT TO THANK YOU FOR CONVENING
THIS HEARING. I KNOW THAT AS ONE
OF THE MEMBERS FROM LOS ANGELES
AND AS THE CHAIR OF ARTS AND
ENTERTAINMENT, THE PROTECTION OF
OUR ARTISTS AND OUR
ENTERTAINMENT INDUSTRY IN
CALIFORNIA IS OF UTMOST
IMPORTANCE TO YOU. AND SO I
THINK THIS, IS SUCH A PROFOUNDLY
IMPORTANT CONVERSATION FOR US TO
BE HAVING TOGETHER. SO I WANT TO
START BY THANKING OUR STAFF, WHO
I KNOW WORK TOGETHER TO MAKE
SURE THAT THIS, HEARING FOCUSED
BOTH ON THE IMPORTANT OF ARTS
AND ENTERTAINMENT, BUT ALSO THE
TECHNOLOGY OF ARTIFICIAL
INTELLIGENCE. AND OUR PANELISTS
FOR BEING HERE TODAY. YOUR
INSIGHTS, I KNOW, WILL REALLY
FRAME THE CONVERSATION THAT WILL
MOVE THROUGH THE LEGISLATURE
THIS YEAR. AND OF COURSE, THE
STAFF THAT PUTS ON EVERY HEARING
YOU GUYS MAKE EVERYTHING HAPPEN
AND NOBODY SEES YOU. BUT WE KNOW
IT BACK IN FEBRUARY, THE PRIVACY
AND CONSUMER PROTECTION
COMMITTEE HELD OUR FIRST
INFORMATIONAL HEARING ON
ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE SINCE
2018. AND IT REALLY WAS A WAY
FOR US TO HAVE A CONVERSATION
ABOUT HOW AI HAS EVOLVED IN JUST
THOSE FEW YEARS. AND TODAY,
WE'RE BUILDING ON THAT. WE
TALKED ABOUT WHAT I WAS AND HOW
IT COULD CHANGE OUR SOCIETY, AND
TODAY WE'RE REALLY STARTING TO
TAKE A DEEP DIVE INTO THE
SUBJECT MATTERS IN WHICH
ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE CAN
CHANGE THE LANDSCAPE, AND THAT
FIRST CONVERSATION TODAY IS THE
INTERSECTION OF AI AND OUR ARTS.
AT OUR LAST HEARING, I SAID, AND
I'LL SAY IT AGAIN, THAT I
BELIEVE AI HAS INCREDIBLE
POTENTIAL TO GROW CALIFORNIA'S
ECONOMY AND IMPROVE THE LIVES OF
CALIFORNIANS. I AM NOT SOMEONE
WHO BELIEVES AI IS SOLELY
DANGEROUS, BUT I THINK THAT WE
NEED TO TALK ABOUT BOTH THE
RISKS AND THE BENEFITS OF THIS
TECHNOLOGY. I BELIEVE THAT EVEN
FOR ARTISTS, JUST LIKE ANY OTHER
SECTOR, AI CAN BE A FANTASTIC
CREATIVE TOOL. WHEN WE LOOK AT
WHAT AI HAS DONE IN THE CONTEXT
OF ART, WE SEE IT HAPPENING
EVERY SINGLE DAY. GENERATIVE AI
HAS CHANGED EVEN IN THE LAST
YEAR WHEN CHATGPT FIRST CAME
OUT, WE SAW ITS ABILITY TO WRITE
, TO WRITE PROSE, TO DO THINGS
WE NEVER THOUGHT POSSIBLE FROM A
COMPUTER. AND SINCE THEN, WE'VE
SEEN SIMILARLY IMPRESSIVE
SYSTEMS EMERGE FOR THE CREATION
OF PICTURES, FILMS AND MUSIC.
THIS IS AN UNBELIEVER POWERFUL
TOOL. BUT LET'S BE CLEAR IT IS
SIMPLY A TOOL. IT DIFFERS FROM
PRIOR TOOLS IN ITS ABILITY TO
CREATE NEW CONTENT INSTEAD OF
JUST ALTERING EXISTING CONTENT,
WHICH IS HOW AI HAS BEEN USED
HISTORICALLY. BUT AT ITS CORE,
AI IS NOT ART, IT IS MATH. IT IS
LIMITED BY ITS TRAINING, ITS
DATA, AND ITS ARCHITECTURE. AND
BY COMPARISON, THE PEOPLE WE
WILL HEAR FROM TODAY, THE
ARTISTS HAVE WHAT I THINK CAN BE
CONSIDERED MAGIC, WHICH IS THE
HUMAN CREATIVITY THEY BRING TO
EVERY SINGLE PROJECT THAT THEY
PRODUCE. AND WE ALL KNOW AS
CONSUMERS OF THIS ART WHAT IT'S
LIKE TO EXPERIENCE A PERFORMANCE
THAT IS TRULY ART, TO GAZE UPON
AN AMAZING WORK OF ART. AND ALL
OF THAT COMES FROM HUMAN
CREATIVITY. THAT IS SOMETHING
I'M NOT OPTIMISTIC THAT AI CAN
DUAL DO. THE TOOLS WE'VE SEEN,
LIKE DOLLY AND SORA, CAN LEARN
TO TURN TEXT INPUTS INTO VISUAL
OUTPUTS. THEY DO THAT BY
TRAINING ON VAST QUANTITY OF
DATA, SO THEY ARE LEARNING FROM
THE PAST. THEY ARE RECREATING.
THEY'RE RECREATING ART FROM THE
ART THAT ALREADY WAS CREATED.
WHEN A HUMAN COMES TO CREATE
ART, IT IS INGENUITY THAT IS NEW
AND DIFFERENT. THAT'S THE
DIFFERENCE. AND ONE THAT I THINK
IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT FOR US TO
ACKNOWLEDGE AND THINK ABOUT. SO
I THINK THE HUMANS THAT ARE PART
OF THIS PROCESS WILL REMAIN
CRUCIAL. AND WE NEED TO ENSURE
THAT AS WE THINK ABOUT TRAINING
GENERATIVE AI, BECAUSE IT IS
THAT TRAINING THAT ALLOWS IT TO
CREATE WHAT IT WANTS TO CALL
ART. WE HAVE TO PROTECT THE
ARTISTS AND THEIR INTELLECTUAL
PROPERTY. WE WE HAVE SEEN AND WE
SEE IT IN THE COURTS EVERY DAY
THAT WE ARE ALLOWING THESE TOOLS
TO BE TRAINED ON WHAT I WOULD
ARGUE IS COPYRIGHTED MATERIAL.
AND SO WE NEED TO BE HAVING A
CONVERSATION. AND I HOPE THAT
THESE CONVERSATIONS ARE
HAPPENING IN WASHINGTON, DC, AS
INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY IS IN
THEIR PURVIEW MORE THAN OURS,
ABOUT WHAT IT MEANS TO PROTECT
THAT INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY OF
THE ARTISTS. WE'RE GOING TO HEAR
FROM TODAY AND OTHERS, THIS
YEAR. WE HAVE TWO CRITICALLY
IMPORTANT BILLS IN THIS SPACE.
ONE AB 2602 BY ASSEMBLY MEMBER
KALRA, WHICH GIVES PERFORMERS
MORE CONTRACTUAL CONTROL OVER
THEIR DIGITAL DIGITAL SELVES. IT
REALLY RAISES THE CONVERSATION
ALSO ABOUT WHAT PEOPLE COULD
HAVE CONTRACTED FOR WHEN THEY
SIGNED A CONTRACT, WHEN THESE
TOOLS WERE NOT IN PLACE, WHICH I
THINK IS AN IMPORTANT
CONVERSATION AROUND CONTRACT. I
ALSO HAVE A BILL, AB 1836, WHICH
TALKS ABOUT THE RIGHT TO
PUBLICITY AS IT RELATES TO ONE'S
OWN IMAGE AND LIKENESS, AND
REANIMATING THOSE WITHOUT THE
CONSENT OF FAMILIES AFTER ONE IS
DECEASED. AND AS I HAVE SAID
BEFORE, AND I'LL SAY AGAIN, I
THINK CALIFORNIA HAS THE
STRONGEST RIGHT OF PUBLICITY IN
THE NATION. AND ONE THAT SHOULD
PROTECT OUR ACTORS TODAY. BUT
WELL BEYOND THEIR LIVES, BECAUSE
THAT IS THEIR LIKENESS. AND THEY
HAVE A RIGHT TO IT AND TO
EVERYTHING THAT COMES ALONG WITH
IT. AND SO THE CONVERSATION THAT
WE'VE HAD AROUND AI AND OTHER
SPACES, AND THE ONES WE NEED TO
HAVE TODAY IS ABOUT THE
POTENTIAL FOR AI TO AUGMENT
HUMAN CREATIVITY, TO OPEN NEW
HORIZON AND CREATE CREATIVE
PATHS FOR PEOPLE WHO OTHERWISE
MAYBE WOULDN'T BREAK INTO THE
ART WORLD, OR WHO WOULDN'T
OTHERWISE REACH CERTAIN
CONSUMERS. THAT AUGMENTATION IS
WHERE I THINK THE POTENTIAL FOR
ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE IS. SO,
SO EXCITING. WHERE WE NEED TO BE
CAREFUL IS WHERE IT IS USING THE
CREATIVE EXPRESSIONS OF ARTISTS
THAT HAVE ALREADY BEEN ENTERED
INTO THE WORLD TO REPLACE THEM.
AND THAT IS WHAT WE NEED TO WORK
ON. SO I'M INCREDIBLY EXCITED TO
HEAR FROM THIS EXPERTS THAT WE
HAVE HERE TODAY TO TEACH US MORE
ABOUT AI, ITS INTERACTION IN THE
ARTS, AND HOW IT'S IMPACTING
THEIR LIVES TODAY, AND HOW WE
CAN THINK ABOUT THE WAYS THAT WE
AS A STATE CAN PROTECT THEM, THE
INDUSTRIES AND THE OUTPUTS THAT
EACH OF US ENJOY EVERY SINGLE
DAY. THAT I'LL TURN IT OVER TO
MY CO-CHAIR. THANK YOU VERY MUCH
FOR THAT. WE REALLY APPRECIATE
IT. AND WE'LL HAVE MORE MEMBERS
COMING IN AND JOINING US,
THROUGHOUT THIS MORNING WHILE
THE PANEL IS STILL MOVING
FORWARD. SO NEXT, I WOULD LIKE
TO, BRING UP, WITH THAT, MOVE
FOR OUR FIRST PANEL, I WOULD
LIKE TO INVITE UP, PROFESSOR BEN
ZHAO, TO, CHAIR PROFESSOR. THE
PROFESSOR FOR COMPUTER SCIENCE
FROM THE UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGO,
WHO WILL GIVE US AN OVERVIEW OF
THE ENTERTAINMENT INDUSTRY,
ADVANCE AND UTILIZE OF THE
TECHNOLOGY. WELCOME, PROFESSOR.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH. AND WHEN
READY, FEEL FREE TO INTRODUCE
YOURSELF AND JUST, PROCEED WITH
YOUR PRESENTATION. GREAT. OKAY.
ONE SECOND. ALL RIGHT, YES.
FIRST OF ALL, I WANT TO THANK,
CHAIR, CHAIRMAN GIBSON.
CHAIRWOMAN BAUER-KAHAN AND OTHER
MEMBERS OF THE ASSEMBLY
COMMITTEES, THANK YOU FOR THE
OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK AT THIS
HEARING ON THE, USE OF AI IN THE
ENTERTAINMENT INDUSTRY, IT WILL
ALSO BE MY PLEASURE TO SPEAK
MORE SPECIFICALLY LATER ABOUT
THE IMPACT OF GENERATIVE AI ON
VISUAL ARTISTS. LATER ON, IN ONE
OF THE LATER PANELS, BUT FOR NOW
, LET ME START WITH A
INTRODUCTION TO THE BROADER
TOPICS AND QUESTION THAT OF
ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE,
SPECIFICALLY GENERATIVE AI.
THERE ARE CURRENT LIMITATIONS
AND FUNDAMENTAL CHALLENGES
FACING THEM AS THEY ARE
INCREASINGLY DEPLOYED IN
DIFFERENT APPLICATIONS TODAY,
ALL RIGHT. SO, YEAH, JUST AS A
VERY BRIEF INTRODUCTION, I'M A
PROFESSOR OF COMPUTER SCIENCE AT
UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGO, I'VE BEEN
DOING THIS FOR ABOUT 20 YEARS,
AND FOR MUCH OF THAT, I'VE BEEN
WORKING IN THE FIELD OF
SECURITY, AND FOR QUITE A FEW
YEARS I'VE BEEN WORKING ON
SECURITY AND PRIVACY ISSUES
RELATED TO ARTIFICIAL
INTELLIGENCE. AND OF COURSE,
SINCE THE ARRIVAL OF GENERATIVE
AI, NEARLY ALL MY TIME HAS BEEN
SPENT, THINKING ABOUT RELATED
ISSUES, CHALLENGES, AND MOSTLY
TRYING TO PREVENT AND, AND
MITIGATE HARMS THAT RESULT FROM
THE MISUSES OF THESE
TECHNOLOGIES. AND YES. SO, YEAH,
WE CAN MOVE ON TO THE NEXT
SLIDE, PLEASE, I HAVE TALKED TO
MANY DIFFERENT STAKEHOLDERS IN
THIS SPACE, EVERYONE FROM
ARTISTS OBVIOUSLY, WHO I'VE
WORKED WITH CLOSELY, TO
DIFFERENT, ARTISTS AND CREATIVES
FROM OTHER MODALITIES,
PHOTOGRAPHERS, ANIMATORS,
AUTHORS, MUSICIANS,
CHOREOGRAPHERS, COMPOSERS. I'VE
ALSO TALKED TO DIFFERENT GROUPS,
OUR COLLEGES AND FACULTY,
MUSEUMS AND CURATORS, DIFFERENT
GUILDS REPRESENTING DIFFERENT
ARTIST GROUPS, AND INCLUDING
STATE LEGISLATORS LIKE YOURSELF
IN CALIFORNIA AND ILLINOIS, AND
ALSO VARIOUS AGENCIES, INCLUDING
THE COPYRIGHT OFFICE, THE FTC
AND OTHER DEPARTMENTS, YEAH, IF
WE COULD PROCEED. THANK YOU, SO
LET ME TALK BRIEFLY ABOUT THE
ARCHITECTURE AND THE SYSTEMS
THAT WE'RE GOING TO BE
DISCUSSING LARGELY TODAY, I
THINK EVERYONE BY NOW IS
SOMEWHAT FAMILIAR WITH LARGE
LANGUAGE MODELS, SO I WON'T
BELABOR THE POINT ON WHAT THEY
SEEM LIKE THEY COULD DO, WHAT I
WILL POINT OUT IS THAT IT IS
IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND THAT
THEY ARE STATISTICAL PREDICTORS,
THAT AT THEIR CORE, THE
TRANSFORMER ARCHITECTURE FOR LMS
IS PRIMARILY HAS ONE JOB, WHICH
IS TO SAY PREDICT THE NEXT TOKEN
THAT SHOULD COME WITH THE
HIGHEST PROBABILITY. AND SO ONCE
YOU UNDERSTAND THAT AND THE FACT
THAT IT IS NOT A KNOWLEDGE BASE,
THERE IS NO KNOWLEDGE OR
DATABASE OF BACKING INFORMATION
THÀNH BEHIND THE SERVERS, THEN
YOU WILL UNDERSTAND WHY IT
BEHAVES THE WAY IT DOES. RIGHT?
SO FOR EXAMPLE, PEOPLE HAVE
PUZZLED ABOUT THE QUESTIONS OF
WHY IS IT ASYMMETRIC? WHY IS IT
THAT WHEN YOU ASK FOR YOU KNOW,
I'VE SEEN THIS ON TWITTER,
SOMEONE ASKS, YOU KNOW, WHO IS
TOM CRUISE'S MOM? AND YOU KNOW,
ELM WILL PRODUCE A PERFECTLY
GOOD AND ACCURATE NAME. AND THEN
YET WHEN YOU TAKE THAT PERSON'S
NAME, ITS MOTHER'S NAME, AND
THEN YOU ASK, WHO IS THIS
PERSON? THE RESULT IS NOT
DISSIMILAR. THE RESULT DOES NOT
SAY TOM CRUISE'S MOM. THE RESULT
WILL PRODUCE SOMETHING ENTIRELY
FICTIONAL. OFTENTIMES AND THAT
ASYMMETRY COMES PRIMARILY
BECAUSE OF THE FACT THAT LMS ARE
TOKEN PREDICTORS. SO IT IS GOOD
AT PREDICTING A PARTICULAR
SEQUENCE OF WORDS BUT NOT OTHERS
. IT HAS NO NOTIONS OF EQUALITY.
IF YOU TELL IT A EQUALS B, IT
DOES NOT UNDERSTAND THAT B
EQUALS A, SO THESE ARE VERY
FUNDAMENTAL. FACTUAL THINGS ARE
WHERE THESE ARCHITECTURES FALL
SHORT. MORE IMPORTANTLY, THEY
ALSO ARE FIXATED ON OVERFITTING
ON THEIR TRAINING DATA. WHAT
THAT MEANS IS THAT IT IS
OFTENTIMES POSSIBLE TO HAVE
MODELS REGURGITATE SPECIFIC
LYRICS, SPECIFIC PASSAGES FROM
BOOKS, OTHER TYPES OF TRAINING
DATA, AND PERHAPS ALSO IMPORTANT
IS THAT BLOCKING THESE TYPES OF
PROMPTS, AS MANY COMPANIES ARE
TRYING TO DO THESE DAYS, HAS IN
RECENT RESEARCH, BEEN PROVEN
NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE, THAT THERE
ARE FUNDAMENTAL ASPECTS OF THESE
ARCHITECTURES THAT MAKE THIS
TYPE OF ALIGNMENT TRAINING VERY,
VERY CHALLENGING, IF NOT
IMPOSSIBLE TO MOVE ON. NEXT
SLIDE PLEASE. THANK YOU, SO IF I
COULD DEMONSTRATE SOME VERY
SIMPLE EXAMPLES JUST TO SHOW YOU
WHAT I MEAN, THIS WAS LITERALLY
I THINK OVER THE WEEKEND I WENT
BACK TO THE LATEST VERSION OF
GPT, AND I ASKED, YOU KNOW, WHO
IS BEN ZHAO? AND OF COURSE, IT
PICKED UP A REASONABLE SORT OF
SHORT BIO GRAPHY OF MY WORK,
WHICH IS FINE. BUT THEN WHEN YOU
ASK IT FOR ACTUAL FACTUAL
INFORMATION, YOU COULD HIT NEXT,
YOU'LL SEE THAT IT COMES, IT
BECOMES UNGLUED. AND WHEN I
ASKED FOR ANY TWO RECENT
PUBLICATIONS THAT I'VE HAD, WHAT
IT DOES IS ACTUALLY FABRICATES
TITLES OF PAPERS AND AUTHORS AND
SUMMARIES ABOUT POTENTIAL PAPERS
THAT SEEM LIKE THEY COULD BE
AUTHORED BY ME. THESE ARE SORT
OF HODGEPODGE AND COMBINATIONS
OF PRIOR PAPERS I'VE WRITTEN,
FOR EXAMPLE, THAT NO DOUBT HAS
BEEN FED INTO HIS TRAINING DATA
CORPUS, NEXT, PLEASE. AND THEN
EVEN WHEN YOU ASK IT FOR MORE
PAPERS, IT'LL JUST CONTINUE TO
FABRICATE MORE AND MORE. AND
THERE IS NO PARTICULAR STOP, IF
YOU GO TO THE NEXT, NEXT SLIDE,
PLEASE, SO WE'RE ACTUALLY SEEING
A LOT OF THESE EXAMPLES IN REAL
TIME, NEXT PLEASE, SO SOME OF
THESE EXAMPLES THAT I HAVE ON
THE SLIDES TODAY ARE SOME OF
THESE EXAMPLES THAT YOU'VE SEEN
ON SOCIAL MEDIA, MANY OF THESE
ARE REPEATABLE IN REAL TIME,
THERE ARE THE RESULT OF GOOGLE'S
INTEGRATION OF AI OVERVIEW INTO
THEIR SEARCH ENGINE. SO YOU SEE
CLASSIC EXAMPLES LIKE YOU CAN'T
USE GASOLINE TO COOK SPAGHETTI
FASTER, BUT YOU CAN USE IT TO
MAKE A SPICY, SPICY SPAGHETTI
DISH, DOCTORS RECOMMEND SMOKING
2 TO 3 CIGARETS PER DAY DURING
YOUR PREGNANCY, LET'S SEE, AS A
RESPONSE TO HOW DO YOU FEEL,
WHAT DO YOU DO WHEN YOU'RE
FEELING DEPRESSED, ONE REDDIT
USER SUGGESTS SELF-HARM, AND
THEN FINALLY, YOU KNOW, A
RESPONSE THAT, IN FACT, IT IS
ALWAYS SAFE TO LEAVE A DOG IN A
HOT CAR, NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE.
RIGHT. NEXT SO, YEAH, IF I CAN
MOVE TO THE IMAGE SIDE OF
THINGS, WHEN WE LOOK AT
GENERATIVE IMAGE MODELS, THESE
ARE PRIMARILY MODELS BASED ON
WHAT IS NOW REFERRED TO AS THE
DIFFUSION MODEL ARCHITECTURE. I
WON'T BELABOR YOU WITH THE
MATHEMATICS OF HOW IT DOES. THIS
SUFFICES TO SAY THAT IT'S A
STAGE PROCESS WHERE TRAINING
DATA IS USED TO EDUCATE THE
MODEL ABOUT WHERE PARTICULAR
STYLES ARE, WHAT OUR PARTICULAR
VISUAL FEATURES THAT ARE
ASSOCIATED WITH PROMPTS AND
NAMES. NEXT SLIDE PLEASE. SO
VERY QUICKLY, I THINK THIS IS
PERHAPS HELPFUL TO DISCUSSIONS
OF HOW WE THINK ABOUT THESE
MODELS, AN INTUITIVE WAY TO
THINK ABOUT THESE MODELS IS THAT
THERE IS A FIXED SPACE. LET'S
SAY THERE'S A 3D CUBE OF SOME
SORT THAT WHERE AN INDIVIDUAL
POINTS INSIDE THIS CUBE, CAPTURE
ALL POSSIBLE ARTISTIC STYLES.
FOR EXAMPLE, YOU KNOW, FOR
EXAMPLE, SOME POINTS MIGHT
REPRESENT MONET. OTHERS MIGHT
REPRESENT JACKSON POLLOCK OR
KAHLO. ORTIZ OR SPECIFIC NAME
PROMPTS LIKE ANIME,
IMPRESSIONISM OR MODERN FANTASY,
AND WHAT A MODEL DOES WHEN IT
TRAINS ON MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF
DATA IS THAT IT BUILDS, IT FILLS
OUT THIS SORT OF SPACE AND
ASSOCIATES PARTICULAR TAGS WITH
POSITIONS IN THE SPACE. SO WHEN
YOU SAY I WANT TO DRAW A CAT IN
A SPACE SUIT IN THE STYLE OF
JACKSON POLLOCK, IT WILL TRY TO
PULL TOGETHER THOSE FEATURES AND
TO GENERATE A SINGLE IMAGE. BUT
IT'S IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND
THAT WITHOUT THESE TYPES OF
NAMES AND NAMED STYLES, IF THESE
MODELS WERE TO PICK ANY RANDOM
POINT INSIDE THE STYLE SPACE,
THEY MIGHT IN FACT PRODUCE WHAT
REALLY LOOKS LIKE GIBBERISH,
NEXT SLIDE PLEASE. SO HERE'S AN
EXAMPLE OF WHAT IS HAS BEEN
HAPPENING IN THE ARTISTIC SPACE
USING THESE MODELS. THIS IS AN
EXAMPLE OF A MIMICRY THAT IS
PERFORMED USING THE NAME PROMPT
OF KELLY MCKERNAN. KELLY IS ONE
OF THE ORIGINAL ARTISTS WHO'S
SPOKEN UP IN THIS SPACE, AND YOU
CAN SEE HER ARTWORK ON THE
RIGHT, AND BASICALLY LOTS AND
LOTS OF OUTPUTS FROM THE
GENERATIVE MODELS, WHEN GIVEN A
PROMPT WOMAN WITH WHITE CURLY
HAIR AND RIBBON AROUND HER NECK.
ALL RIGHT, NEXT SLIDE PLEASE. SO
LET'S TALK ABOUT SORT OF HOW
THESE THINGS ARE BEING DEPLOYED,
I'M GOING TO LEAVE THE
INDIVIDUAL EXPERTS FROM
DIFFERENT INDUSTRIES TO SPEAK
ABOUT THEIR OWN INDUSTRY, WHAT I
WILL SPEAK ABOUT IS THE FACT
THAT I THINK AT LARGE, FOR
CREATIVE COMPANIES AND
INDUSTRIES, THERE IS, AT LEAST
IN MY EXPERIENCE, A SOMEWHAT
CONSISTENT PATTERN IN HOW THESE
GENERATIVE AI MODELS ARE
TREATED, RECEIVED AND THEN
DEPLOYED. OFTENTIMES TIMES FOR
MANY OF THESE COMPANIES, THERE
IS INTERNAL CONFLICT ON THE
ETHICS AND THE APPROPRIATE USE
OF THESE KIND OF TOOLS,
OFTENTIMES BETWEEN THE CREATIVE
AND THE BUSINESS UNITS,
OFTENTIMES THE BUSINESS UNITS
WILL IN MANY CASES OVERESTIMATE
THE ABILITY OF THESE TOOLS TO
PRODUCE EFFICIENCY BOOSTS. AND
BECAUSE THEY DO SO, THEY RESULT,
THE RESULT IS THAT THEY ENACT
PREEMPTIVE COST CUTTING AND
MASSIVE LAYOFFS. WE'VE ALREADY
SEEN THIS IN THE LATTER PARTS OF
2023, AND THEN CONTINUING INTO
2024, SO SIGNIFICANT NUMBERS. OF
COURSE. I'M SURE YOU'VE SEEN
SOME OF THOSE NUMBERS IN, IN THE
PUBLIC MEDIA, IN PRACTICE, ONE
OFTEN FINDS THAT THESE TOOLS ARE
SOMEWHAT LIMITED IN UTILITY,
THEY ARE BEST FOR LOWER COST
APPLICATIONS, LARGE SCALE AD
CAMPAIGNS, FOR EXAMPLE, WHERE
THE CRITERIA OR THE BAR FOR
PERFECTION IS, IS MUCH LOWER,
OFTENTIMES THESE ARTISTS WHO USE
OR ARE ASKED TO USE THESE TOOLS
WILL REALIZE THAT THERE ARE
OFTENTIMES LACKING IN
FLEXIBILITY AND EXPRESSIVENESS
AND CONSISTENCY AND CONTROL.
FINALLY, OF COURSE, MANY OF THE
APPLICATIONS COMPANIES WHO ARE
USING THESE TOOLS HAVE
LEGITIMATE CONCERNS ON IP
OWNERSHIP AND COPYRIGHTS, MANY
OF THESE ISSUES ARE BEING HASHED
OUT IN THE COURTS TODAY,
FINALLY, I WANT TO POINT OUT
THAT THERE IS SIGNIFICANT
BACKLASH ALREADY FROM CONSUMERS
AND END USERS, IF WE CAN JUST
CYCLE THROUGH, WE DON'T NEED TO
SEE THE INDIVIDUAL, BUT WE CAN
ANIMATE THROUGH THE DIFFERENT
EXAMPLES. KEEP GOING. PLEASE
THESE ARE NEWS ITEMS THAT HAVE
COME IN THE LAST, I WOULD SAY 6
TO 8 MONTHS, IN POPULAR NEWS
MEDIA, IN MANY CASES FROM
FASHION MAGAZINES, FROM AD
AGENCIES, AS MANY PEOPLE
REALIZING THAT THE END USERS ARE
IN FACT, NOT RECEIVING THESE
KIND OF OUTPUTS, AI OUTPUTS.
REALLY? WELL, IF YOU COULD KEEP
ANIMATING, THERE'S A COUPLE
MORE. YEAH. KEEP GOING, KEEP
GOING. ONE MORE. OKAY. THERE YOU
GO. THAT'S THE END. THANK YOU.
THANK YOU FOR INDULGING ME ON
THAT, SO LET ME, I COGNIZANT OF
TIME. I DON'T WANT TO RUN OVER,
SO LET ME TALK ABOUT SOME OF THE
CHALLENGES MOVING FORWARD WITH
THESE KINDS OF TECHNOLOGIES, AND
I WILL TRY TO SPEAK AS GENERALLY
AS I CAN ABOUT SOME OF THE
FUNDAMENTAL ISSUES AND NOT SO
MUCH PER DEPLOYMENT ISSUES. SO
AS I THINK THE CHAIR AND
CHAIRWOMAN RECOGNIZED, AND I
THINK THE COMMITTEE ALSO
RECOGNIZES THAT THESE MODELS
CANNOT LEARN BY THEMSELVES,
THERE IS A COMMON MISCONCEPTION
THAT THESE MODELS CAN SOMEHOW
LEARN BY, YOU KNOW, JUST TRYING
NEW THINGS AND THEN FIGURING OUT
WHETHER THEY'RE GOOD OR BAD,
THERE IS A SPACE CALLED
REINFORCEMENT LEARNING, AND THAT
HAS BEEN EXCEPTIONALLY
SUCCESSFUL IN NAVIGATING AI'S
PROGRESS IN CERTAIN GAMES, LIKE
CHESS AND GO. IT IS IMPORTANT,
VERY IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT
THOSE KIND OF THINGS ARE VERY,
VERY DIFFERENT FROM ARTISTIC
CREATIONS BECAUSE THERE IS NO
FUNDAMENTAL SCORING SYSTEM THAT
TELLS YOU THIS PIECE OF ART IS
BETTER THAN THAT ONE. THERE IS
NO UNIVERSAL METRIC THAT I CAN
USE TO GUIDE AND DETECT WHEN IT
HAS FOUND SOMETHING THAT IS
PLEASING TO THE EAR, OR PLEASING
TO THE POPULAR CONSUMER, SO THIS
IS A FUNDAMENTAL ISSUE. THIS
MEANS THAT FOR SUBJECTIVE,
CREATIVE FIELDS, ANYTHING THAT
IS WHERE THE END CONSUMER IS
HUMAN, HUMAN SUBJECTIVITY
MATTERS. AND HUMAN TRAINING DATA
IS INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT. PERHAPS
MORE IMPORTANT IS THE FACT THAT
THESE TOOLS TODAY ARE IN SOME
WAYS DESTROYING THEIR OWN
FUTURE, BECAUSE ASPIRING
ARTISTS, WHETHER IT'S IN ART
COLLEGES, ONLINE CLASSES AND
ELSEWHERE, ARE DROPPING OUT OF
THE FIELD IN RECORD NUMBERS, AND
WHAT THIS MEANS, PERHAPS, IS
THAT IN A FEW MORE YEARS, THE
PEOPLE WHO I WOULD VERY MUCH
LIKE AND NEED TO RELY ON FOR
THEIR TRAINING DATA WILL HAVE
ALL BUT DISAPPEARED FROM THE
INDUSTRIES THAT THEY HOPE TO
TRAIN ON, AND THAT WILL BE A
TRAGEDY FOR BOTH US AND AMATEURS
. NEXT SLIDE PLEASE. I WANT TO
ALSO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT
MODEL COLLAPSE AND THIS IS
SOMETHING THAT IS I WOULD SAY, A
PRESSING ISSUE FOR THE AI
INDUSTRY TODAY, WHICH IS THAT,
MUCH RESEARCH, RECENT RESEARCH
HAS SHOWN THAT I CANNOT TRAIN ON
AI'S OWN OUTPUT, AND THIS IS A
PROBLEM AND THIS IS SOMEWHAT
INTUITIVE IF YOU THINK ABOUT
WHAT AI IS DOING. AI IS
BASICALLY MANAGING AND TRYING
VERY HARD TO AS ACCURATELY AS
THEY CAN TO COPY THE GROUND
TRUTH, WHICH IS TO SAY HUMAN
OUTPUT, HUMAN TRAINING DATA,
WHETHER IT'S ART OR SPEECH OR
MUSIC OR TEXT. AND BUT AS WITH
ALL COPIES, NOTHING IS EVER
PERFECT. WHICH MEANS THAT EVERY
SINGLE TIME THAT YOU GENERATE
SOMETHING FROM GENERAL AI MODEL,
IT ADDS SOME LEVEL OF ERROR INTO
THE SYSTEM. AND SO IF YOU TAKE
THAT CONTENT THAT'S BEEN
GENERATED AND THEN YOU FEED IT
BACK INTO TRAINING DATA, WELL,
YOU GET THIS COMPOUNDED ERROR
THAT ADDS UP OVER TIME. AND
OFTENTIMES VERY QUICKLY INTO
LEADING INTO COLLAPSE. WE COULD
FAST FORWARD THROUGH THE SLIDE
TO THE NEXT SLIDE. THANK YOU.
VERY QUICKLY, I ALSO WANT TO
TALK ABOUT THE FACT THAT
IDENTIFYING AI IS A SIGNIFICANT
CHALLENGE THAT FACES MANY
REGULATORY AGENCIES AND
COMPANIES RIGHT NOW, FOR VARIOUS
REASONS. WE WANT TO PREVENT
DEEPFAKE, PARTICULARLY
CONSIDERING THIS IS AN ELECTION
YEAR. BUT WE ALSO WANT, YOU
KNOW, TO IDENTIFY AUTHENTIC
CONTENT. SO HOW DO YOU
DISTINGUISH AUTHENTIC
PHOTOGRAPHY, REAL PHOTOGRAPHS
FROM SOMETHING THAT'S BEEN
GENERATED IN A VERY CONVINCING
MANNER BY MIDJOURNEY AND OTHER
MODELS? TURNS OUT THIS IS
EXCEEDINGLY DIFFICULT, THERE'S A
LOT OF FOLKS ACTIVELY WORKING IN
THIS SPACE, WE HAVE SOME EARLY
RESULTS THAT SHOW THAT, IN FACT,
THIRD PARTY CLASSIFIERS, THINGS
LIKE HIVE AND OPTIC AND OTHERS
ARE LIMITED. EVEN THOUGH THEY
CAN INITIALLY SHOW GREAT
ACCURACY, THEY ARE VERY
VULNERABLE TO MANIPULATION. AND
WHERE, YOU KNOW, ELECTION
MANIPULATION AND OTHER TYPES OF
DEEPFAKES ARE CONCERNED, THERE
IS MORE THAN SUFFICIENT
INCENTIVE FOR PEOPLE TO
MANIPULATE THE OUTPUT AS TO
BYPASS THESE KINDS OF FILTERS.
AND OF COURSE, THE FAILURES OF
THESE MODELS OR DETECTORS HAVE
REAL CONSEQUENCES, SUCH AS YOU
KNOW, FALSELY ACCUSING STUDENTS
OF PLAGIARISM AND SO ON. NEXT
SLIDE PLEASE, I'M WRAPPING UP
AND VERY QUICKLY, I JUST WANT TO
MENTION THAT AI MODELS, IN FACT,
AI COMPANIES HAVE OFFERED AI
WATERMARKS AS A MEASURE TO HELP
FIX THIS. AND I WORKED IN
WATERMARKS FOR SOME TIME. THE
PROBLEM WITH WATERMARKS,
PARTICULARLY FOR AI GENERATIVE
MODELS, IS THAT THEY ARE
FUNDAMENTALLY EXTREMELY
DIFFICULT TO GET RIGHT, AND ALSO
ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO GET RIGHT
ON BOTH SIDES AND BY BOTH SIDES.
WHAT I MEAN TO SAY IS THAT
WATERMARKS NEED TO BE BOTH
IMPOSSIBLE TO FORGE AND
DIFFICULT TO REMOVE, AND USUALLY
WATERMARKS TECHNOLOGIES WILL
ERROR ON ONE SIDE AND TO PROVIDE
THE OTHER. BUT IN THE CASE OF
DEEPFAKES, OF COURSE, WHAT YOU
REALLY NEED IS YOU ACTUALLY
REQUIRE BOTH. YOU CANNOT HAVE,
PHOTOSYNTH OR GENERATED IMAGES
BECOME, PHOTOGRAPHY LEGITIMATE
PHOTOGRAPHY TO PROVIDE DEEPFAKES
AUTHENTICITY. BUT JUST LIKE YOU
CANNOT TAKE LEGITIMATE
PHOTOGRAPHS AND DISCREDIT THEM
AS CALLING THEM AS GENERATIVE
AI, CURRENT MODELS AND CURRENT
PROPOSALS FOR WATERMARKS ALL
FAIL IN ONE OR BOTH OF THESE
ASPECTS, AND IN FACT, THE ONLY
THING THAT THEY ARE PARTICULARLY
GOOD FOR, GIVEN THEIR LEVEL OF
ACCURACY, IS HELPING COMPANIES
IDENTIFY THEIR OWN OUTPUT SO
THAT THEY DO NOT TRAIN ON THEIR
OWN OUTPUT, WHICH OF COURSE, IS
QUITE IMPORTANT, AND THAT WILL
CONCLUDE MY REMARKS. I'M HAPPY
TO TAKE ANY QUESTIONS OR MOVE
ON. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
PROFESSOR, AGAIN, THANK YOU VERY
MUCH FOR YOUR THOROUGH
PRESENTATION. REALLY APPRECIATE
IT. LEARNED A GREAT DEAL FROM
THE PRESENTATION, I WANT TO ASK
THE FIRST QUESTION, IN THE PAST,
THIS QUESTION HAS IN FACT BEEN
ASKED, WHERE DO YOU SEE
TECHNOLOGY GOING IN THE NEXT
FIVE YEARS, IN TERMS OF AI, BUT
MY QUESTION WON'T BE THAT MY
QUESTION IS, WHERE IS AI GOING
TO BE IN THE NEXT FIVE MONTHS?
AND THE REASON WHY I SAY THAT IS
BECAUSE IT'S ALWAYS EVOLVING AND
MOVING RAPIDLY AND CHANGE,
ALMOST ON A DAILY BASIS. SO
WHERE DO YOU SEE THIS
TECHNOLOGY, IN THE NEXT FIVE
MONTHS? AND THEN I KNOW YOU
TOUCH BASES IN TERMS OF
WATERMARKS, RIGHT, AND IT'S NOT
BEING USEFUL OR, OR, YOU KNOW,
NOT BEING USEFUL TO REALLY
DESCRIBE OR SHOW WHETHER OR NOT
SOMETHING WAS USED BY AI, BUT
WHERE DO YOU SEE AS A FIX TO TRY
TO AUTHENTICATE IT OR TO
ACTUALLY SHOW WHETHER OR NOT
SOMEONE HAS USED THIS, BECAUSE
PEOPLE, AS YOU SAID, IN THE
ELECTIONS COMING UP, YOU HEAR A
VOICE OR YOU SEE AN IMAGE, AND
THE PROPAGANDA STARTS FROM THERE
AND IT'S UNTRUE. AND THEN
SOMEONE IS TRYING TO UNDO UNRING
A BELL. SO WHERE DO YOU SEE THE
NEXT FIVE MONTHS AND WHERE DO
YOU SEE AS A WAY OF TRYING TO
FIX, WHETHER OR NOT SOMETHING IS
BEING CREATED BY AI OR OR, OR
NOT? THANK YOU. CHAIRMAN GIBSON,
FOR THAT QUESTION, SO FIRST OFF,
WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN IN THE
NEXT FIVE MONTHS, MY ANSWER MAY
ACTUALLY MAKE YOUR QUESTION A
LITTLE BIT EASIER, WHICH IS TO
SAY THAT AT LEAST IN MY PERSONAL
OPINION, I BELIEVE THAT AI
GENERATIVE AI IS GOING TO SLOW
DOWN, AND THE REASON THAT IS, IS
BECAUSE, IN OFTENTIMES IN
COMPUTER SCIENCE, WHEN YOU'RE
TRYING TO SOLVE A PROBLEM,
GETTING THE FIRST 70 TO 80% OF
THE PROBLEM DONE RIGHT IS FAIRLY
EASY, PARTICULARLY IN MACHINE
LEARNING, WHERE WHEN YOU ARE
GATHERING LARGE QUANTITIES OF
DATA, IT IS ABOUT EXTRACTING
VALUE FROM THAT DATA. NOW, THE
CHALLENGE COMES WHEN YOU ARE
FACED WITH THE LAST 10% AND
YOU'RE TRYING TO SQUEEZE THAT
LAST BIT OF ACCURACY OUT. AND
THAT'S WHERE THINGS GET MUCH,
MUCH MORE DIFFICULT. IN
PARTICULAR, I WILL YOU KNOW, I
DON'T RECALL THE EXACT CITATION,
BUT THERE HAS BEEN INCREASING
AMOUNT OF RESEARCH TODAY THAT
TALKS ABOUT THE FACT THAT AS WE
MOVE FORWARD IN TRYING TO
FURTHER IMPROVE THESE MODELS,
THE AMOUNT OF TRAINING DATA THAT
WE ACTUALLY NEED TO DO SO TO
MAKE EACH FOR STEP IS SUPER
LINEARLY GROWING, EXPONENTIALLY
GROWING. WHAT THAT MEANS IS
GETTING THAT NEXT 5% WILL
PERHAPS REQUIRE TWO X OR THREE X
AMOUNT OF TRAINING DATA THAT WE
HAVE HAD SO FAR, AND OF COURSE,
GIVEN THE FACT THAT WE HAVE
ALREADY TRAINED THESE MODELS
BASICALLY ON EVERYTHING KNOWN TO
MAN, COPYRIGHTED OR NOT, FINDING
THAT AMOUNT OF NEW TRAINING DATA
IS GOING TO BE INCREDIBLY
DIFFICULT. THIS IS WHY WE SEE
COMPANIES, GO AFTER USER
GENERATED DATA. SO ALL THE
SOCIAL MEDIA PLATFORMS, REDDIT,
TWITTER, FACEBOOK, META,
INSTAGRAM, ANYTHING THAT YOU CAN
NAME ALONG THESE LINES, THEY ARE
ALREADY EITHER CHANGING THEIR
TERMS OF SERVICE OR HAVE ALREADY
TURNED CHANGED THEIR TERMS OF
SERVICE TO ALLOW AI TRAINING.
BUT I DO BELIEVE THAT EVEN AS
THEY DO THIS, THE AMOUNT OF
TRAINING DATA WILL NOT BE ABLE
TO FEED THESE MACHINES. APPETITE
INCREASE, INCREASING AND GROWING
APPETITE FOR DATA. AND THAT
MEANS, I THINK, THAT THE
TECHNOLOGICAL ABILITY FOR THESE
MODELS WILL START TO REALLY SLOW
DOWN, BUT WHAT I DO SEE IS THAT
THEY WILL CONTINUE TO GROW IN
BREADTH. THEY WILL CONTINUE TO
BE INTEGRATED INTO MORE AND MORE
APPLICATIONS, SOME WHAT MIGHT
ARGUE, PREEMPTIVELY AND PERHAPS
PREMATURELY, BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT
UP TO THE TASK. AND YET I THINK
THE FINANCIALS AND THE AND THE
COMPETITIVE EDGE IN THE, IN THE
MARKET WILL FORCE THIS TO HAPPEN
REGARDLESS, AS YOUR QUESTION
ABOUT THE WATERMARKS AND
AUTHENTICATION, THAT IS A VERY
CHALLENGING QUESTION. I TO BE
HONEST, I DON'T FORESEE A STRONG
TECHNICAL SOLUTION THAT IS
VIABLE AT LARGE SCALE BEFORE THE
ELECTION. I THINK THAT LONGER
TERM, WHAT WE NEED ARE THINGS
LIKE INTEGRATION OF STRONG
PROVENANCE TOOLS INTO HARDWARE
CAPTURING DEVICES, THINGS LIKE
CAMERAS AND SENSORS NEED TO HAVE
CRYPTOGRAPHIC ALGORITHMS THAT
ARE INTEGRATED INTO THESE CHIPS.
I'M TALKING TO SOME OF THE
COMPANIES THAT ARE PERHAPS
CONSIDERING DOING THINGS LIKE
THIS, BUT THAT EFFORT NEEDS TO
BE INTEGRATED WITH SOFTWARE
TOOLS AS WELL, SO THAT,
SIGNATURES THAT ARE GENERATED BY
BY CAMERAS AND SIGNED
CRYPTOGRAPHICALLY CAN BE
PRESERVED AND CARRIED THROUGH,
THROUGH LEGITIMATE EDITS AND
ENHANCEMENTS THROUGH PHOTOSHOP,
THOSE KIND OF THINGS, SO THAT WE
CAN ACTUALLY LOOK AT AN IMAGE
AND ACTUALLY TRACE BACK IN A
SECURE FASHION WHERE IT WAS
CAPTURED AND WHAT CHANGES IT
UNDERWENT IN ITS WAY TO YOUR
SCREEN, ALL THAT REQUIRES A
SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF CHANGE.
I'M NOT SURE THAT WILL BE
POSSIBLE BEFORE THE ELECTION. I
DO THINK THAT THERE ARE SOME, WE
PROBABLY DON'T HAVE TIME TO
DISCUSS TODAY, BUT THERE ARE
SOME, GRASSROOTS EFFORTS BY SOME
SMALL, SOME SMALL STARTUPS THAT
MAY SHED SOME LIGHT IN THE
SPACE, BECAUSE THEY ARE TAKING A
DIFFERENT APPROACH FROM WHAT THE
GENERATIVE AI COMPANIES ARE
DOING IN TERMS OF WATERMARKS.
GREAT. THANK YOU. I WANTED TO
SEE IF MY VICE CHAIR, MY VICE
CHAIR, MY CO-CHAIR,
ASSEMBLYWOMAN BAUER-KAHAN HAVE
ANY QUESTIONS? YEAH. THANK YOU
PROFESSOR. AND I ACTUALLY THINK
THE PART OF YOUR PRESENTATION ON
SYNTHETIC DATA WAS REALLY
FASCINATING BECAUSE I THINK THAT
IS ONE OF THE QUESTIONS AROUND
TRAINING DATA. RIGHT. AND CAN WE
REMOVE SOME OF THIS PROTECTIVE
MATERIAL BY CREATING SYNTHETIC
DATA. AND IT'S INTERESTING TO
HEAR THAT TECHNOLOGICALLY THAT
SEEMS LIKE A FALSE PROMISE. SO
THANK YOU FOR HIGHLIGHTING THAT.
I I WANT TO TALK A LITTLE BIT
MORE ABOUT TRAINING DATA BECAUSE
I DO THINK IT IS SO CRITICAL TO
THE CONVERSATION WE'RE HAVING
TODAY IS THE INPUTS THAT GO INTO
THESE, AI MODELS AND, AND AS I
HAVE THOUGHT ABOUT THE WAY THESE
MODELS ARE TRAINED AND TRYING TO
ANALOGIZE IT TO HUMANS, RIGHT.
IF YOU THINK ABOUT SOMEONE WHO
BECOMES A SCREENWRITER, I
IMAGINE THAT WHEN THEY ALTHOUGH
I'M NOT ONE, MY GUESS IS THAT
WHEN THEY ARE LEARNING THEIR
CRAFT, ONE OF THE THINGS THEY DO
IS READ A LOT OF SCREENPLAYS,
WATCH A LOT OF ART, TRY TO SORT
OF LEARN WHAT THEY LIKE, WHAT
THEY DON'T LIKE, WHAT THEY WANT
TO BE LIKE. AND TO ME, THAT DOES
SEEM SLIGHTLY ANALOGOUS TO WHAT
WE DO WITH THESE TRAINING
MODELS. RIGHT AND SO THAT IS
SOMETHING THAT, AS A LAWYER HAS
REALLY VEXED ME AS WE THINK
ABOUT THE LAW AROUND THE
INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY THAT IS
GOING INTO THESE TRAINING MODELS
AND THE WAY WE ALLOW IT TO BE
USED TODAY AND THE WAY WE SHOULD
ALLOW IT TO BE USED IN THE
FUTURE. NOW, I DO WANT TO DRAW A
CLEAR DISTINCTION BETWEEN A
TRAINING MODEL THAT TRAINS ON A
VAST ARRAY OF DATA, RIGHT? THAT
IS DIVERSE IN ITS PORTFOLIO, AND
A MODEL THAT COULD BE NARROW IN
ITS TRAINING DATA. I THINK THAT
THE QUESTION OF HOW THAT, NEW
TOOL OUT OF OPENAI SOUNDED SO
MUCH LIKE SCARLETT JOHANSSON, WE
WILL COME TO FIND OUT. AND I
KNOW THEY ARE NOW ALLEGING THAT
THEY USED A VOICE ACTOR, BUT I
ASSUME AND YOU CAN CORRECT ME IF
I'M WRONG, THEY COULD HAVE PUT
THAT VOICE INTO AN AI MODEL
TRAINED ON SCARLETT JOHANSSON'S
VOICE TO MAKE IT SOUND MORE LIKE
SCARLETT JOHANSSON, AND IN A
MODEL WHERE IT WAS TRAINED JUST
ON SCARLETT JOHANSSON'S VOICE,
THAT FEELS LIKE A VERY, VERY
DIFFERENT INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY
QUESTION THAN ONE THAT IS MUCH
BROADER. BUT I GUESS I WANT YOU
TO, YOU KNOW, IF YOU COULD SORT
OF OPINE A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE
DIFFERENT MODELS AND HOW THEY'RE
TRAINED BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT ALL
THE SAME, AS I'M SURE. MOST
PEOPLE ARE AWARE. THANK YOU,
THANK YOU, CHAIRWOMAN, FOR THAT
GREAT QUESTION, SO I GUESS TO
START WELL, THAT'S A THAT'S A
BROAD QUESTION. SO WE'LL START
WITH THE SORT OF THE END AND,
AND GO BACKWARDS, YOU KNOW, OF
COURSE THERE ARE DIFFERENT TYPES
OF TRAINING. AND AS YOU SAID,
YOU KNOW, IT IS, FAIRLY EASY FOR
A MODEL GENERATIVE MODEL TODAY
TO BASICALLY DO WHAT WE WOULD
CALL MIMICRY, TO FINE TUNE
ITSELF ON A PARTICULAR SMALL SET
OF SAMPLE DATA. IN THIS CASE,
FOR EXAMPLE, THE SINGLE VOICE
SAMPLES OF A SINGLE FEMALE
ACTRESS, IT IS ENTIRELY FEASIBLE
AND ACTUALLY QUITE INEXPENSIVE
TO DO THIS TYPE OF FINE TUNING.
IN FACT, THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS
DAILY. OFTENTIMES ON SOME OF
THESE PLATFORMS TO ARTISTS,
CREATIVE VISUAL ARTISTS WHO HAVE
THEIR STYLES MIMICKED ON A DAILY
BASIS. SO THIS TYPE OF LIMITED
FINE TUNING IS ACTUALLY QUITE
INEXPENSIVE. VERY EASILY DONE.
AND SO, YEAH, I SEE THAT AS
ABSOLUTELY FEASIBLE. NOW, COMING
BACK TO THE BROADER QUESTION OF
BROADER TRAINING DATA AND LARGER
AND MORE DIVERSE TRAINING DATA
SETS, YOU KNOW, I THINK AT
30,000FT, IT IS OFTENTIMES EASY
TO EQUATE, HUMANS BEING INSPIRED
BY A PRIOR ARTISTIC WORK OR A
MUSICAL PIECE OR SOMETHING TO,
TO INSPIRE THEM TO DO FURTHER
THINGS IN THEIR OWN SPACE. BUT I
WANT TO POINT OUT A COUPLE OF
THINGS THAT ARE IMPORTANT, I
THINK, IN THIS QUESTION. ONE IS
THAT THE RESULT OF THAT IS VERY,
VERY DIFFERENT. WHEN I TAKE
SOMEONE'S ART OR THEIR VOICE OR
WHATEVER, THEY CAN BASICALLY NOT
ONLY COMPETE WITH THE ORIGINAL,
BUT THEY CAN DO SO AT A MILLION
TIMES THE SPEED THAT THE
ORIGINAL PERSON CAN CAN GENERATE
ART, RIGHT? WHETHER IT'S ART OR
MUSIC OR HUMAN VOICE, AI IS ABLE
TO COMPLETELY OVERWHELM THE
ORIGINAL SOURCE IN TERMS OF
COMPETITION, IN TERMS OF VOLUME,
IN TERMS OF WHETHER IT'S GOOD
QUALITY OR NOT. IT DOESN'T
REALLY MATTER. I CAN FLOOD THE
INTERNET WITH IT BEFORE YOU CAN
EVEN GENERATE YOUR NEXT
PAINTING. THAT'S ONE CRITICAL
QUESTION. I THINK, IN WHEN IT
COMES TO COMPETITION AND IP USE.
THE OTHER ISSUE, OF COURSE, IS
THAT HUMANS ACTUALLY DON'T JUST
LOOK AT SOMETHING AND SAY, I
WANT TO DO JUST THAT, RIGHT?
PERHAPS AGAIN, I, I DON'T
PRETEND THAT I'M A CREATIVE. I
WORK CLOSELY WITH MANY AND I'M
INSPIRED BY THEM ON A DAILY
BASIS, BUT I THINK, YOU KNOW
THAT THE CREATIVE PROCESS IS FAR
MORE COMPLEX THAN THAT. AND IF
YOU LOOK AT MUSIC, FOR EXAMPLE,
ONE, EXAMPLE I USED LIKE TO GIVE
IS YOU KNOW, WHEN WE CONSIDER
THE TREMENDOUS IMPACT THAT HIP
HOP HAS HAD ON THE MUSIC
INDUSTRY, EVERYTHING FROM, YOU
KNOW, POP, MAINSTREAM POP TO,
YOU KNOW, COUNTRY MUSIC TODAY,
WHERE DOES THAT COME FROM? THAT
DOES NOT COME FROM COPYING
ORIGINAL STYLES. THAT COMES, YOU
KNOW, AS MANY ART HISTORIANS
AND, AND, AND RESEARCHERS
DISCUSS, IT COMES FROM A
PARTICULAR TIME PERIOD OF
POLITICAL STRIFE, OF ECONOMIC
DOWNTURN, OF ANGER AND, AND
FRUSTRATION AND TRAUMA. AND THAT
IS ALL PART OF THE HUMAN
CONDITION. THESE ARE THINGS THAT
THOSE ARE THE THINGS THAT
CREATED THIS PARTICULAR STYLE,
THAT ANGER WAS CHANNELED INTO
SOMETHING CREATIVE. AND I WILL
NEVER BE ABLE TO DO THAT. I WILL
NEVER LOOK AT EXISTING MUSICAL
FORMS AND SAY, YES, YOU KNOW,
I'M GOING TO CREATE THIS NEW,
GROUNDBREAKING STYLE BECAUSE I
THINK THIS IS THIS WILL SPEAK TO
THE HUMAN CONDITION, THIS WILL
SPEAK TO THE LISTENERS THAT I'M
TARGETING. NOW, WHAT IT WILL DO
IS IT'LL SAY YOU WANT EMINEM,
YOU KNOW, TOGETHER WITH DRAKE.
YEAH, I CAN PIECE TOGETHER THEIR
SORT OF RHYTHMIC STYLES. I CAN
PIECE TOGETHER THEIR COMMONLY
USED LYRIC WORDS. AND I WILL DO
THAT FOR YOU. RIGHT BUT IN TERMS
OF ORIGINAL CREATIVITY, I THINK
THAT'S WHERE IT OBVIOUSLY FALLS
QUITE SHORT. THANK YOU SO MUCH.
I THINK YOU, YOU HIGHLIGHT IN
YOUR ANSWER SORT OF WHY THIS
WOULD BE SUCH A SAD FUTURE IF
WE'RE JUST RECREATING THE ART OF
THE PAST RATHER THAN CREATING
NEW WORKS OF ART. BUT ALSO, TO
YOUR POINT, TOUCH ON THE
HISTORICAL MOMENTS THAT WE LIVE
IN, SO THANK YOU FOR THAT. AND
THEN I WANT TO TOUCH A LITTLE
BIT ON SORT OF THE WAY WE, AS WE
THINK ABOUT, YOU KNOW, WHERE AN
ARTIST MAY WANT THERE. AGAIN, I
THINK IT IS THEIR RIGHT TO
DECIDE HOW THEIR ART AND THEIR
CREATIVITY IS USED. AND TO THE
EXTENT THAT ONE WANTED TO
CONTRACT INTO OR CONSENT TO THE
USE OF THEIR OWN ARTWORK
LIKENESS, WHATEVER THE CASE MAY
BE, I GUESS YOU KNOW,
CALIFORNIA, AS I MENTIONED AT
THE BEGINNING, HAS THIS RIGHT TO
PUBLICITY, WHICH IS A PROPERTY,
RIGHT, ONE THAT CAN BE
CONTRACTED OUT CONSENT TO USE,
ETC. AND IT'S NOT A INALIENABLE
RIGHT, AND I, YOU KNOW, BUT I DO
THINK WE SHOULD BE THINKING
ABOUT HOW DO WE MOVE FORWARD IN
THIS WORLD TO ALLOW FOR THE USE,
CREDIT AND COMPENSATION OF
ARTISTS MATERIAL AND I'D WONDER
IF YOU HAVE THOUGHTS ON THAT, OR
IF YOU CAN TALK ABOUT HOW IT'S
DONE. I KNOW THAT YOU AS AHEAD
OF US IN THIS, ETC. YEAH, I
THINK MULTIPLE STATES ARE MOVING
FORWARD IN ENHANCING THEIR RIGHT
OF PUBLICITY LAWS, FOR EXAMPLE,
TO INCLUDE, GUARD GUARDRAILS, IF
YOU WILL, AGAINST GENERATIVE AI
IN THIS SPACE. ILLINOIS HAS A
COUPLE OF BILLS THAT ARE MOVING
IN THIS DIRECTION RIGHT NOW, SO,
YEAH, I THINK, YOU KNOW, THERE'S
A COUPLE OF THINGS. ONE IS, OF
COURSE, THIS IS ABSOLUTELY THE
CREATORS. RIGHT, AND I THINK,
YOU KNOW, HAVING THAT
CONVERSATION, HAVING THAT
NEGOTIATION BETWEEN THE, THE
CREATORS IN TERMS OF GETTING
CONSENT AND PROPER COMPENSATION
IN RETURN FOR THEIR, FOR THE
LICENSE, FOR THE ABILITY TO USE
THEIR LIKENESS IS THE CORRECT
AND ETHICAL WAY TO MOVE FORWARD,
HOWEVER, I WANT TO POINT OUT
THAT I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT AND
PERHAPS, IMPORTANT FOR US TO
RECOGNIZE THAT OFTENTIMES THESE
NEGOTIATIONS DO NOT HAPPEN IN AN
EQUAL FOOTING, WHICH IS TO SAY
THAT, FOR EXAMPLE, IF YOU
IMAGINE IN THE ENTERTAINMENT
INDUSTRY SOMEONE WHO IS STARTING
OUT, WHETHER THEY BE AN ARTIST
OR WHETHER THEY BE A AN ACTOR,
AN EXTRA ON A FILM, THEY ARE AT
THE ABSOLUTE LOWEST IN TERMS OF
NEGOTIATING POWER AND IN THESE
CASES WHERE THEY ARE ASKED TO
HAND OVER THEIR LIKENESS IN A
CONTRACT FOR ALL PERPETUITY FOR
THE ENTIRE FUTURE, WHATEVER
MIGHT YEARS, TO USE THEIR
LIKENESS. THERE IS NO VERY
LITTLE NEGOTIATING POWER. THIS
IS, YOU KNOW, YOU SIGN CONSENT
TO THIS OR YOU CAN BASICALLY GET
OFF, AND I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT
TO RECOGNIZE THAT POWER
IMBALANCE BECAUSE PEOPLE AND
ACTORS AND, AND CREATIVES
OFTENTIMES DO NOT RECOGNIZE THAT
THEY MAY BE SUCCESSFUL AND THAT
WHEN THEY ARE SUCCESSFUL, THEY
WILL REGRET THE FACT THAT THEY
NOW HAVE NO CONTROL OVER THEIR
OWN LIKENESS. RIGHT? ESTABLISHED
ARTISTS HAVE THAT CONTROL
BECAUSE THEY ALREADY HAVE THAT
POWER. THEY ARE RECOGNIZED AND
THEY CAN SPEAK, MOVE FORWARD AND
SPEAK ON BEHALF OF MANY OTHERS
WHO ARE NOT, BUT IF YOU ARE NOT
AND YOU'RE STARTING OUT AND YOU
SAY, I'M HAPPY TO LICENSE MY
LIKENESS, YOU HAVE ZERO CONTROL
OVER WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENS IN
THE FUTURE. THEY MIGHT
ACCOMPANY, MAY GOD FORBID, USE
YOU IN WAYS THAT YOU WOULD
ACTUALLY FIND OFFENSIVE,
POLITICALLY, PERSONALLY, TO
WHATEVER LEVEL METRIC THAT YOU
FIND LATER ON. AND YOU WILL HAVE
ABSOLUTELY NO RECOURSE BECAUSE
THESE TYPES OF CONTRACTS TEND TO
BE VERY ONE SIDED AND VERY
BINARY. SO I THINK THAT THAT IS
THE RIGHT WAY TO GO. BUT
NEGOTIATE AN APPROPRIATE AND
FAIR WAY FOR THESE, ESPECIALLY
YOUNGER CREATIVES AS THEY'RE
STARTING OUT IN THEIR CAREER IS
REALLY IMPORTANT. THANK YOU. AND
I WANT TO HIGHLIGHT, I KNOW WE
HAVE MANY OF OUR LABOR UNIONS
WHO REPRESENT THESE CREATIVES
HERE PARTICIPATING TODAY, AND I
KNOW THAT THEY DO A LOT TO TRY
TO EVEN OUT THAT BARGAINING
POWER. SO I WANT TO THANK THEM
FOR THEIR EFFORTS AND THIS AS
WELL, AND I THINK IT'S
INTERESTING, YOU POINT ON, YOU
KNOW, THE RIGHT TO A PROPERTY,
RIGHT, IS ONE THAT SORT OF IS
FINANCIALLY MOTIVATED. BUT I
THINK YOU HIT ON SOMETHING
REALLY IMPORTANT WHICH IS WE'VE
HAD DIFFERENT CREATIVES COME IN
AND TALK ABOUT THIS ISSUE. IS
THIS FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT TO
CONTROL THE WAY YOUR LIKENESS,
VOICE, ETC. IS USED SO THAT IT
RESPECTS YOU AS A HUMAN RIGHT?
AND I THINK THAT'S REALLY
IMPORTANT IN THE BILL THAT I'VE
BEEN WORKING ON, RELATED TO THE
USE OF ONE'S LIKENESS AFTER
ONE'S DEATH, I USE THE EXAMPLE
OF ROBIN WILLIAMS IN A HEARING,
AND WE LATER LEARNED THAT HE HAD
PUT IN HIS ESTATE. HE DOESN'T
WANT HIS LIKENESS USED AFTER HIS
DEATH. AND THAT'S A RIGHT THAT
HE SHOULD RETAIN. BECAUSE, YOU
KNOW, I THINK IT IS REALLY
IMPORTANT THAT CREATIVES DO HAVE
THE RIGHT TO DECIDE WHAT THEIR
LEGACY IS AND TO CREATE ARTWORK
THAT HONORS THAT LEGACY. SO I
WANT TO THANK YOU FOR YOUR
PARTICIPATION. THANK YOU. THANK
YOU VERY MUCH, WE ONE MORE
QUESTION FOR YOU. I WANT TO
BEFORE I, I'M GOING TO ASK A
QUESTION AS WE'RE GOING TO
INTRODUCE, OUR COMMITTEE MEMBER,
MR. TOM LACKEY, FOR ANY OPENING
REMARKS HE HAD. BUT BEFORE WE DO
GO THERE, LET ME ASK TO ASK THIS
ONE QUESTION. I CONTRIBUTES, DO
YOU SEE ANY GROWTH COMING FROM I
AROUND IN THE JOB SPACE RIGHT,
OR ARE WE LOOKING AT SIMPLY
REPLACING HUMAN CREATIVITY?
RIGHT. SO JOBS REPLACING HUMANS.
WHAT WHAT'S YOUR OPINION IN THAT
SPACE? OH, THANK YOU, CHAIR
CHAIRMAN, FOR THAT QUESTION. YOU
KNOW, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT I,
I'M NOT AN EXPERT. I'M NOT AN
ECONOMIST. I HAVE MANY
COLLEAGUES WHO ARE EXPERTS IN
THIS SPACE. BUT AS SOMEONE WHO
HAS BEEN WORKING IN THIS SPACE
FOR SOME TIME, I HAVE BEEN
THINKING ABOUT THIS QUESTION OF
JOB REPLACEMENT FOR SOME TIME.
YOU KNOW, I USED TO HAVE IN SOME
OF MY KEYNOTES, I USED TO HAVE A
FEW SLIDES I TALKED ABOUT WHEN I
WAS GROWING UP. I, I WAS
WATCHING THE JETSONS AS A, YOU
KNOW, AS A CHILDHOOD CARTOON.
AND I WOULD SEE I THINK IT WAS
ROSIE, RIGHT, WAS THE HOUSEHOLD
ROBOT THAT DID ALL THE AMAZING
THINGS. AND THAT WAS REALLY THAT
WAS THE DREAM. THAT WAS, I
THINK, AND IS THE DREAM, RIGHT?
THAT IS WHAT WE WANT AI TO DO
TO, TO ALLOW US TO NOT NOT TO
HAVE TO WORK FOR PHYSICAL LABOR
TO, TO ALLOW US TO SIT BACK AND
RELAX AND TO AND TO ENJOY, YOU
KNOW, LIFE A BIT MORE, AND
PERHAPS, YOU KNOW, CREATE
BECAUSE ART IN MANY TIMES IS AN
ENJOYABLE PROCESS, BUT THAT'S
NOT WHERE WE'RE HEADED DOWN.
RIGHT, IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT AI IS
NOW, IN FACT, WE HAVE THE
OPPOSITE. WE HAVE AI TRYING TO
TAKE MANY OF THE POSITIONS AND
JOBS THAT ARE ACTUALLY PASSIONS.
YOU KNOW, ARTISTS GO INTO THEIR
FIELD AND WHETHER THEY'RE ACTING
OR WHETHER THEY'RE MUSICIANS OR
VISUAL ARTISTS, THEY DON'T GO IN
IT FOR THE MONEY. I THINK
THERE'S THIS MISCONCEPTION OF,
YOU KNOW, SNOOTY ARTISTS SITTING
IN GALLERIES DRINKING RED WINE
WHEN, YOU KNOW, THE LARGE, LARGE
MAJORITY OF VISUAL ARTISTS ARE
ARE, ARE, YOU KNOW, BARELY
MAKING RENT. BUT BUT THEY DO
WHAT THEY DO BECAUSE THEY LOVE
WHAT THEY DO, BUT INSTEAD THESE
AI MODELS TODAY ARE FOCUSING ON
THE WRONG PROBLEMS. AND PEOPLE
ARE IN TECH, PERHAPS DON'T
UNDERSTAND, THIS SIDE OF
CREATIVE INDUSTRIES IS THAT THEY
THINK THAT THEY ARE FREEING UP
CREATIVES FROM A BURDEN, BUT
IT'S QUITE THE OPPOSITE.
CREATIVES LOVE TO CREATE AND
THIS IS WHAT THEIR PASSION IS.
SO INSTEAD, YOU KNOW, WE WOULD
REALLY LOVE ROBOTS A BIT BETTER
SO THAT WE DON'T HAVE TO DO
PHYSICAL LABOR, THAT SOME OF
THOSE THINGS ARE ACTUAL GROUND,
YOU KNOW, BACK BREAKING JOBS
THAT THAT WE WOULD LOVE ROBOTICS
TO TAKE OVER. SADLY, THOUGH,
ROBOTICS IS LAGGING FAR BEHIND
IN THAT SPACE. AND I KNOW
BECAUSE I HAVE COLLEAGUES WHO
ARE WORKING IN THIS SPACE, I'M
VERY CHALLENGING PROBLEM. SO
YEAH, JOB REPLACEMENT, IT'S
HAPPENING AND IT'S HAPPENING TO
THE WRONG INDUSTRIES, I WOULD
LIKE TO SAY AND NOT ONLY THAT,
BUT, YOU KNOW, WE LIVE IN A
CAPITALIST SOCIETY, RIGHT. AND
OFTENTIMES PEOPLE, WHEN THEY
FIRST SEE THE DEPLOYMENT OF AI,
THEY SEE THIS AMAZING TOOL. THEY
THINK I'M GOING TO BE ABLE TO BE
SO MUCH MORE PRODUCTIVE. THIS IS
AN EFFICIENCY TOOL. WHAT THEY
DON'T UNDERSTAND IS THAT WE LIVE
IN A CAPITALIST SOCIETY. AND
WHAT REALLY WILL HAPPEN IS THAT
THEY WILL BE MORE, PERHAPS MORE
EFFICIENT IN SOME CASES. BUT
WHAT THAT REALLY MEANS IS THAT
THEY'RE, YOU KNOW, YOUR
COWORKERS WILL BE FIRED AND
YOU'LL BE ABLE YOU'LL BE ASKED
TO DO THEIR JOBS BECAUSE THE
ONES, ULTIMATELY THE ONES THAT
REAP THE BENEFITS OF THIS
EFFICIENCY WILL BE THE
STOCKHOLDERS WILL BE THE PROFITS
OF THE COMPANY THAT YOU WORK
FOR, NOT INDIVIDUALLY. SO WILL
THERE BE NEW JOBS? I THINK THERE
WILL BE SOME. I'M I'M UNCLEAR AS
TO WHAT THEY ARE RIGHT NOW,
BECAUSE I THINK EVEN SOFTWARE
ENGINEERS AND EVEN MACHINE
LEARNING ENGINEERS WILL BE AT
SOME POINT IN DANGER OF LOSING
SOME OF THEIR JOBS TO SOME OF
THESE TOOLS, SO THE REAL
QUESTION IS, WHERE ARE THESE NEW
JOBS GOING TO COME FROM? I'M I'M
HONESTLY AT A LOSS BECAUSE I
HAVE BEEN THINKING ABOUT THIS
QUESTION FOR SOME TIME, AND I DO
NOT THINK THAT AI CREATES MORE
JOBS THAN IT REPLACES. I THINK
IT'S QUITE THE OPPOSITE. AND BY
RATHER LARGE MARGIN, SO YEAH,
UNFORTUNATELY THAT THAT'S MY
ANSWER. WELL, THANK YOU VERY
MUCH, FOR THAT, I JUST THINK
THAT ROSIE TOOK PLACE, TOOK
SOMEONE'S JOB IN THE JETSONS,
AND SHE DIDN'T DO A GOOD JOB, SO
I WANT TO RECOGNIZE MY COLLEAGUE
, MR. TOM LACKEY, FOR ANY
OPENING COMMENTS AND ANY
QUESTIONS BEFORE YOU LEAVE.
THANK YOU. WELL, LET ME JUST SAY
THAT THIS IS, THE BURNING
QUESTION IN MOST PEOPLE'S MINDS
THAT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT AI,
THAT IT'S BOTH A BLESSING AND
MAYBE EVEN A CURSE IF WE'RE NOT
CAREFUL. AND THE FACT IS,
YESTERDAY IT WAS INTERESTING. I
WENT TO SPEAK TO A COMMUNITY
WITH REGARD TO MEMORIAL DAY, AND
AFTER THE PROGRAM WAS OVER, I
WAS APPROACHED BY SEVERAL
PEOPLE, AND I REPRESENT THE
DESERT OF SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA.
AND, THE ENTERTAINMENT INDUSTRY
IS VERY CRITICAL TO MANY PARTS
OF THOSE COMMUNITIES. AND THE
THERE'S JUST A LOT OF FILMING
THAT'S DONE OUT THERE. AND THIS
IS THEIR CONCERN IS THAT,
THEY'RE NO LONGER GOING TO HAVE
TO FILM ON LOCATION BECAUSE THAT
REALLY ENHANCES A LOT OF THESE
RURAL COMMUNITIES. AND IT'S A
LEGITIMATE CONCERN. I MEAN, THE
BALANCE IS GOING TO BE THE
CHALLENGE, AND I DON'T KNOW HOW
WE DO THAT. I DON'T THINK
ANYBODY DOES. BUT, THE FACT THAT
WE'RE HAVING THIS DISCUSSION IS
HELPFUL, AND WE APPRECIATE YOUR
EXPERTISE AND YOUR HONESTY. I DO
LOVE THAT A LOT BECAUSE WE DON'T
ALWAYS GET THAT. SO, YOUR YOUR
HONESTY IS MUCH APPRECIATED. AND
THAT'S THE ONLY WAY WE REALLY,
REALLY ADDRESS THESE CONCERNS IN
A MEANINGFUL WAY. SO THANK YOU
FOR BEING HERE. AND, I LOVE
LISTENING TO WHAT YOU HAVE TO
SAY AT BOTH, EXCITES ME AND
SCARES ME. THANK YOU SO MUCH.
THANK YOU. IF I CAN ADD ONE
THING TO YOUR ROBOTICS COMMENT,
THERE'S A ROBOTICS COMPANY IN MY
DISTRICT THAT IS CREATING
ROBOTIC TRACTORS, AND ONE OF THE
THINGS I LEARNED WHEN THEY WENT
INTO BUSINESS WAS THE MOST
DANGEROUS JOB ON A FARM IS THE
TRACTOR DRIVER. AND ONE OF THE
THINGS THAT THIS ROBOT HAS BEEN
ABLE TO DO THROUGH ARTIFICIAL
INTELLIGENCE IS TAKE SOIL
MOISTURE READINGS, VERY DETAILED
READINGS OF WHAT IS HAPPENING ON
THESE FARMS SUCH THAT ACTUALLY
IT DID NOT DISPLACE JOBS
ENTIRELY. IT DISPLACED THE MOST
DANGEROUS JOB AND CREATED JOBS
THAT MAKE OUR FARMS MORE
EFFECTIVE, ESPECIALLY IN
CALIFORNIA, WHERE WATER USE IS
SUCH A CRITICAL COMPONENT. AND
SO THE OPPORTUNITIES ARE THERE.
AND I KNOW WE'RE NOT TALKING
ABOUT TRACTORS TODAY, BUT I JUST
THOUGHT IT WAS ONE OF THOSE
EXAMPLES OF AN AI TOOL THAT IS
GOING TO BE SO BENEFICIAL TO OUR
STATE. THAT REPLACED A VERY
DANGEROUS JOB, PERHAPS, BUT THE
OPERATORS OF THOSE ROBOTS DO SO
MUCH MORE THAN THEY DID BEFORE.
AND SO I JUST I'M HOPEFUL. I
WANT TO ADD THAT MOMENT OF HOPE.
BUT AGAIN, IT'S IN A DIFFERENT
CONTEXT. THANK YOU. CHAIRWOMAN
IF I COULD JUST MAKE ONE TINY,
SMALL COMMENT, IT IS IMPORTANT
TO DISTINGUISH THAT THOSE KIND
OF TOOLS ARE WHAT WE CALL
DISCRIMINATORY AI TOOLS. NOT IN
A BAD WAY, DISCRIMINATORY AS IN
CLASSIFYING A FROM B, AND THOSE
AI TOOLS HAVE BEEN AROUND FOR
DECADES AND ARE STILL ACTIVE
TODAY. IT'S JUST THAT GENERATIVE
AI TOOLS, WHICH ARE ALL ABOUT
GENERATING CONTENT, SYNTHETIC
CONTENT, THOSE KIND OF TOOLS
HAVE SUCKED THE AIR OUT OF VC
AND ALL THE DISCUSSIONS. AND SO
ABSOLUTELY, THOSE KIND OF TOOLS
ARE FANTASTIC. THOSE KIND OF
TOOLS ARE WELL NEEDED AND THEY
DO GREAT THINGS. IT'S THE
GENERATIVE AI TOOLS THAT
ACTUALLY HAVE MUCH OF THE
ETHICAL AND ECONOMIC PROBLEMS.
THANK YOU. WONDERFUL. THANK YOU
VERY MUCH, PROFESSOR. WE'LL BE
I'M SURE, CALLING YOU BACK UP
NEXT, WE WANT TO MOVE TO OUR
SECOND PANEL. AI'S IMPACT ON THE
MUSIC, INDUSTRY, WE'D LIKE TO
INVITE, INVITE UP DOCTOR MCTEER,
SENIOR VICE, SENIOR ADVISOR WITH
THE HUMAN ARTISTS CAMPAIGN. ALSO
CHRIS HORTON, SENIOR VICE
PRESIDENT OF STRATEGIC
TECHNOLOGY WITH UNIVERSAL MUSIC.
AND ALSO PATRICK SABATINI,
SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT OF THE
LEGAL AND BUSINESS AFFAIRS WITH
WARNER MUSIC GROUP. THANK YOU
VERY, VERY MUCH, FOR JOINING US
THIS MORNING, WE WILL START OFF
WITH, WITH DOCTOR MCTEER, SO
WHEN YOU'RE READY, PLEASE
PROCEED. AND THANK YOU VERY
MUCH, ALL OF YOU, FOR BEING
HERE. THANK YOU FOR PUTTING THIS
HEARING TOGETHER. I DO WANT TO
START BY SAYING THAT THE TOPIC
OF AI, GENERATIVE AI IN ART IS A
TOPIC THAT I'M BOTH
PROFESSIONALLY AND PERSONALLY
VERY PASSIONATE ABOUT. SO I'M
GLAD YOU'VE PUT THIS HEARING
TOGETHER, I'M DOCTOR MOYA
MCTEER. I'M AN ASTROPHYSICIST
AND A FOLKLORIST AND A CREATIVE
WRITER AND AN EDUCATOR, AND THE
SENIOR ADVISOR TO THE HUMAN
ARTISTRY CAMPAIGN. THAT'S WHAT
BRINGS ME HERE TODAY. MY JOB
WITH THE CAMPAIGN IS TO
TRANSLATE BETWEEN THE DIFFERENT
STAKEHOLDERS IN THE CONVERSATION
AROUND GENERATIVE AI. SO I HAVE
THE GREAT PRIVILEGE OF TALKING
TO POLICY MAKERS, TO ARTISTS,
AND TO TECH DEVELOPERS ABOUT
WHAT MAKES ART SPECIAL AND
MAKING SURE WE'RE ALL ON THE
SAME PAGE ABOUT THAT AND HOW AI
CAN AFFECT IT. MY MISSION IN
THIS ROLE IS TO MAKE SURE THAT
EVERYONE, REGARDLESS OF THEIR
CELEBRITY STATUS, GETS TO CHOOSE
EXACTLY HOW AND WHEN THEY ENGAGE
WITH GENERATIVE AI. AS A
FOLKLORIST, I UNDERSTAND THAT
ART HAS BEEN THE SCAFFOLDING
AROUND WHICH CULTURE HAS BEEN
CONSTRUCTED FOR HUMAN
CIVILIZATIONS FOR MORE THAN
10,000 YEARS. I KNOW THAT ART
ESTABLISHES COMMUNAL IDENTITY.
IT GIVES US A WAY TO PASS
INFORMATION FROM ONE GENERATION
TO THE NEXT, AND IT IS ONE OF
THE FEW THINGS THAT MAKES US
UNDENIABLY AND UNIQUELY HUMAN.
FOR ABOUT THE LAST THOUSAND
YEARS, ART HAS BEEN USED
PRIMARILY AS A FORM OF
INDIVIDUAL SELF-EXPRESSION THÀNH
MEANING WHEN A PERSON CREATES
ART, THEY'RE GIVING US A VIEW OF
THE WORLD FROM THEIR PERSONAL
PERSPECTIVE, AND THAT IS ONE OF
THE MOST EFFECTIVE WAYS TO BREED
EMPATHY AMONG HUMANS. SO I WORRY
THAT IF WE DON'T PROTECT THE
THINGS THAT MAKE US OURSELVES,
WE'RE GOING TO LOSE THIS GREAT
BENEFIT OF ART TO OUR SOCIETY. I
WANT TO SAY THAT THIS
INTERACTION BETWEEN ART AND
TECHNOLOGY CERTAINLY ISN'T NEW.
THOUSANDS OF YEARS AGO, WHEN
BARDS WHO RECITED EPIC POEMS
FROM MEMORY LEARNED ABOUT A
NEWFANGLED INVENTION CALLED
WRITING, THEY WERE CERTAINLY
CONCERNED, BUT THERE'S A
DIFFERENCE HERE, BECAUSE THE
TECHNOLOGY TO ALMOST PERFECTLY
REPLICATE A PERSON'S IMAGE AND
VOICE AND LIKENESS HAS NEVER
EXISTED BEFORE. THIS IS THE TYPE
OF THING THAT WAS ONLY CONCEIVED
OF IN FOLK TALE HORROR STORIES
ABOUT MONSTERS WHO STEAL YOUR
FACE AND YOUR VOICE. SO THIS
TECHNOLOGY IS EXCITING, BUT IT
CANNOT BE ALLOWED TO CONTINUE
UNREGULATED. IT WILL LITERALLY
MAKE OUR ANCESTORS NIGHTMARES
COME TRUE. WITH THE PROPER
GUIDELINES, THIS TECHNOLOGY CAN
OPEN UP NEW CREATIVE AVENUES FOR
ARTISTS. IT CAN MAKE MANY PARTS
OF THEIR JOBS EASIER, AND IT CAN
INTRODUCE NEW WAYS FOR THEM TO
INTERACT WITH THEIR AUDIENCES.
BUT UNFORTUNATELY, AS WE SAW
ALMOST IMMEDIATELY AFTER CHATGPT
LAUNCHED IN THE FALL OF 2022,
THIS TECHNOLOGY CAN ALSO BE USED
TO STEP ON ARTISTS RIGHTS. IF
LEFT UNCHECKED. NOT ONLY WILL I
LEAD TO A CREATIVE LANDSCAPE
THAT'S SATURATED WITH, IN MY
OPINION, SOULLESS CONTENT, NOT
ART THAT MISAPPROPRIATES
CULTURES AND GENRES. IT CAN'T
POSSIBLY UNDERSTAND. BUT IT WILL
ALSO JEOPARDIZE ARTISTS
LIVELIHOODS AND MAKE IT HARDER
AS A CONSUMER TO FIND GOOD ART.
THIS IS ALREADY HAPPENING ON
MUSIC STREAMING PLATFORMS, AND
IT MAKES ME SO ANGRY, AND GOING
BROADER WHEN ANY SIGHT OR SOUND
CAN BE CREATED DIGITALLY, THE
GENERAL POPULATION WILL
ULTIMATELY LOSE. LOSE TRUST IN
THE TRUTH. THE HUMAN ARTISTRY
CAMPAIGN LAUNCHED IN RESPONSE TO
THESE CONCERNS. WE NOW ARE A
COALITION OF MORE THAN 200
CREATIVE ORGANIZATIONS IN 40
COUNTRIES AROUND THE WORLD, AND
WE ARE ALL UNITED BY THE SAME
ARTIST CENTRIC PRINCIPLES. YOU
CAN SEE IN THIS AD THAT WE HAVE,
THAT'S HOPEFULLY BEING SHARED
WITH YOU. WE HAVE A LOT OF
SUPPORT FROM INDIVIDUAL ARTISTS
AS WELL AS ARTIST ORGANIZATIONS,
AND WE ALL BELIEVE THAT AI, LIKE
ALL OTHER TECHNOLOGY, CAN BE A
USEFUL TOOL FOR ARTISTS, BUT IT
CAN'T BE A REPLACEMENT FOR THE
INEFFABLE SKILL OF HUMAN
CREATIVITY. WE BELIEVE THAT
THERE CAN'T BE EXEMPTIONS TO
EXISTING COPYRIGHT AND PUBLICITY
LAWS FOR AI COMPANIES, AND THAT
THESE COMPANIES HAVE TO FOLLOW
SOME RULES AROUND TRANSPARENCY.
THEY HAVE TO MAKE THEIR CONTENT
CLEARLY LABELED, THAT IT WAS
GENERATED WITH AI, AND THEY HAVE
TO MAKE THE INFORMATION THAT WAS
USED IN THEIR TRAINING MODELS
KNOWN. AND WHEN INFORMATION AND
WHEN ART FROM ARTISTS IS USED IN
THEIR TRAINING MODELS WITH
CONSENT, THEN THOSE ARTISTS HAVE
TO BE FAIRLY COMPENSATED AND
CREDITED. SINCE LAUNCHING LAST
APRIL, THE HUMAN ARTISTRY
CAMPAIGN HAS DONE A LOT OF WORK
TO SUPPORT LEGISLATION IN THESE
AREAS. THE GROUND BREAKING ELVIS
ACT IN TENNESSEE EXPLICITLY
GUARDS INDIVIDUALS FROM DIGITAL
REPLICAS MADE WITH AI. THE FIRST
OF ITS KIND, IT PROTECTS LIVING
ARTISTS AND ARTISTS AFTER THEY
HAVE PASSED, WHICH IS VERY
IMPORTANT. AND THE NÓI FRAUD ACT
MOVING THROUGH THE HOUSE AND THE
NO FAKES ACT MOVING THROUGH THE
SENATE, THE FEDERAL ONES, THEY
BOTH GRANT A FEDERAL RIGHT TO
CONTROL A PERSON'S NAME, IMAGE
AND LIKENESS. CALIFORNIA HAS A
LONG HISTORY OF VALUING ARTISTS,
SO YOU ALREADY HAVE A PUBLICITY
ACT ON FILE. YOU SHOULD BE VERY
PROUD OF YOURSELVES THAT YOU'RE
AHEAD OF MOST OTHER STATES AND
THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WHEN IT
COMES TO PROTECTING THE RIGHTS
OF LIVING ARTISTS. BUT WE NEED
CALIFORNIA TO BE EVEN MORE OF A
LEADER FOR THE REST OF THE
COUNTRY. IF WE'RE GOING TO GET
FEDERAL RIGHTS TO PROTECT OUR
NAME, IMAGE AND LIKENESS. AND
ONE OF THE WAYS THAT YOU CAN BE
A GREAT LEADER IN THAT IS TO
SHORE UP PROTECTIONS FOR ARTISTS
WHO HAVE PASSED AWAY. ESTATES
GET TO CONTROL HOW AN ARTIST'S
WORK IS USED AFTER THEY'RE
PASSED AWAY. BECAUSE WE
RECOGNIZE THE IMPORTANCE OF
PRESERVING THEIR LEGACY, AN
UNSANCTIONED DIGITAL
REPRESENTATIONS OF THOSE ARTISTS
MADE WITH AI WITHOUT THEIR
CONSENT HAVE THE POTENTIAL TO
HARM THEIR LEGACIES EVEN MORE,
I'M GOING TO END BY SAYING THAT
IN STORIES, THE CHARACTERS WHO
STEAL SOMEONE ELSE'S VOICE OR
FACE IS CONSIDERED THE BAD GUY.
ALMOST ALWAYS. WE LEARNED THAT
FROM URSULA, AND IN MYTHS, WE
KNOW THAT WHEN SOMEONE ELSE HAS
CONTROL OF YOUR NAME, THEY HAVE
UNDUE POWER OVER YOU. SO HUMANS
HAVE RECOGNIZED THAT WE OWN OUR
IDENTITIES SINCE BEFORE WE
STARTED POSSESSING THINGS. AND
YET THAT FUNDAMENTAL CLAIM HAS
BEEN TAKEN FROM US BY AI, THE
RIGHTS THAT WE'VE TAKEN FOR
GRANTED FOR ETERNITY SHOULDN'T
BE INFRINGED JUST BECAUSE A NEW
TECHNOLOGY COMES ALONG THAT
MAKES A NEW KIND OF EXPLOITATION
POSSIBLE. EVERYONE DESERVES THE
PEACE OF MIND THAT COMES WITH
KNOWING THAT YOUR IDENTITY AND
YOUR LEGACY ARE PROTECTED, AND
THE LEGISLATORS IN THIS ROOM CAN
HELP PROVIDE THAT PEACE OF MIND
HERE, AND BE AN EXAMPLE FOR THE
REST OF THE COUNTRY. SO THANK
YOU. THANK YOU. NEXT PRESENTER.
HI, MY NAME IS CHRIS HORTON. I'M
A TECHNOLOGIST AT THE UNIVERSAL
MUSIC GROUP. THANK YOU FOR
HAVING ME. I HAVE SOME SLIDES,
NOT THOSE SLIDES, AI AND MUSIC
SLIDES. THERE WE GO. OKAY SO I'M
GOING TO TALK TO YOU A LITTLE
BIT ABOUT HOW WE USE AI, BOTH
OUR INTERNAL SYSTEMS AND
EXTERNAL SYSTEMS, AND THEN SOME
OF THE CHALLENGES. SO FIRST NEXT
SLIDE AND NEXT SLIDE. THANK YOU.
WE HAVE AN INTERNAL LAB BASED IN
LONDON THAT WORKS ON SYSTEMS
THAT WE USE FOR QUALITY
ASSURANCE TO HELP US SEARCH OUR
HUGE CATALOG OF MILLIONS OF
FILES AND ALSO GENERATE METADATA
THAT WE REQUIRE FOR OUR BUSINESS
PARTNERS LIKE BPM AND Kò. NEXT
SLIDE. WE ALSO HAVE FOUR PATENTS
IN THE MARKETING SPACE. AND THIS
TECHNOLOGY, FOR EXAMPLE, ALLOWS
US TO DETECT WHEN A SONG IS
EXPLODING ONLINE AND INDICATES
TO THE LABEL THAT WE SHOULD
SPEND SOME TIME INVESTING
MARKETING RESOURCES INTO IT.
NEXT SLIDE, MOST OF THE WORK
THAT WE USE AI FOR, THOUGH,
COMES FROM EXTERNAL COMPANIES.
NEXT SLIDE AND I'M GOING TO PLAY
SOME MUSIC FOR YOU. SO ONE
EXAMPLE IS THE LAST RECORDING
FROM THE BEATLES. NOW AND THEN
THERE WAS A TAPE WITH JOHN
LENNON'S VOICE AND PIANO AND
BACKGROUND NOISE, AND YOU COULD
NOT HEAR JOHN'S VOICE VERY
CLEARLY. THE OTHER BEATLES
RECORDED PARTS FOR THAT SONG,
BUT IT WASN'T UNTIL WE HAD
SOURCE SEPARATION TECHNOLOGY
WHERE WE COULD SPLIT JOHN
LENNON'S VOICE OUT AND THEN
COMBINE IT WITH THE OTHER
RECORDINGS, THAT WE COULD HAVE
SOMETHING USEFUL. SO I'M GOING
TO PLAY TWO THINGS FOR YOU.
FIRST, THE ORIGINAL RECORDING
WITH THE BACKGROUND NOISE IN THE
PIANO AND THEN THE CLEANED UP
VERSION. AND THIS IS FROM A
DOCUMENTARY YOU CAN FIND ONLINE
IF YOU WANT TO LEARN MORE. NEXT
SLIDE. AND NO, IT'S TRUE. IT'S A
BIG THOSE OF YOU. OKAY. AND NOW
THE CLEANED UP VERSION. OKAY. SO
THIS IS A SOUND OF JOHN'S VOICE.
A FEW SECONDS LATER OR HOWEVER
LONG IT TOOK. AND THERE IT WAS.
JOHN'S VOICE CRYSTAL CLEAR AND
NO, IT'S TRUE. IT'S ALL BECAUSE
OF YOU. AND IF I MAKE IT
THROUGH, IT'S ALL BECAUSE
THERE'S. OKAY. NEXT SLIDE.
ANOTHER EXAMPLE THAT WE USE A
FOR IS THERE IS AN ARTIST NAMED
LARA WHO'S BIG IN KOREA. HE
DOESN'T SPEAK KOREAN, BUT HE
WANTED TO HAVE A SONG FOR HIS
KOREA AUDIENCE. SO HE FOUND
SOMEONE TO RECORD ONE OF HIS
SONGS IN KOREAN, TRANSLATE IT,
AND THEN RECORD, AND THEY TRAIN
UP. AN AI ON LAW'S VOICE, RAN
THE NEW RECORDING THROUGH THIS
AI. SO THE END RESULT SOUNDS
LIKE THE ARTIST. SO I'M GOING TO
PLAY TWO THINGS FOR YOU HIS
ORIGINAL ENGLISH SONG. AND THEN
THE AI CONVERTED KOREAN LANGUAGE
VERSION AND SO YOU SHOULD
HOPEFULLY HEAR THAT THEY SOUND
ALMOST THE SAME IN TERMS OF
VOICING. NEXT SLIDE BACK IN THE
MID AND THE OLD HABITS. REALLY
OLD BAGGAGE. JUST WANT TO WAIT
TWO MINUTES UNTIL YOUR MATTRESS.
GOD. OKAY OKAY, SO I CHECKED IT
OUT AND I'VE BEEN. OKAY, NOW THE
KOREAN. NUMBER SECTION LICCARDO.
WHEN I GET TO THOSE CONCERTO
CHANCES, I GET YOU. IT'S OKAY TO
EAT CHICKEN. SO I SHOULDN'T SAY
THAT, BUT. BUT YOU SHOULD WATCH
SOMETHING, SO HOPEFULLY YOU
AGREE. THAT SOUNDS LIKE HIM.
THAT WASN'T ACTUALLY HIM, NEXT
SLIDE. WE ALSO USE AI VISUALLY,
SO WE HAVE A DOCUMENTARY THAT
WE'RE WORKING ON AND WE HAVE
SOME PORTRAITS THAT WERE TAKEN
BY THE SUBJECT OF THE
DOCUMENTARY. IT'S NOT PUBLIC
YET, SO I'M NOT GOING TO TELL
YOU WHO IT IS, BUT SOME OF THE
PHOTOS WERE IN PORTRAIT MODE,
MEANING THEY'RE TALL AND SKINNY,
BUT WE NEED THEM TO BE WIDE TO
FIT THE FILM SCREEN. SO WE USED
AI TO DO GENERATIVE FILL ON THE
SIDES. SO WHAT YOU SEE ON THE
LEFT IS THE ORIGINAL PHOTO, AND
ON THE RIGHT IS THE FILLED OUT
PHOTO USING AI AND IT LOOKS
PRETTY GOOD. NEXT SLIDE. WE ALSO
HAVE MANY INSTANCES WHERE FOR
PUBLICITY PHOTOS OR PUBLICITY
PHOTOS, THERE MAY BE SOME
ELEMENT IN THE SHOT THAT WE
DON'T WANT, SO WE USE AI TO
REMOVE IT. NEXT SLIDE BEYOND THE
USES, OF COURSE WE HAVE
CHALLENGES. SO I WANT TO SHOW
YOU SOME OF THOSE. NEXT SLIDE.
SO ORIGINALLY YOU PROBABLY KNOW
WE'RE GOING TO SKIP THIS. THIS
IS THE FAKE DRAKE. YOU MAY HAVE
HEARD IT IF YOU WANT TO HEAR IT
WE CAN COME BACK TO IT. BUT THE
AI COMPANIES, MANY OF THEM ARE
TRAINING WITHOUT AUTHORIZATION
ON OUR ARTIST VOICES. NEXT SLIDE
. ON OUR LYRICS. SO THIS IS,
CHATGPT AND ANTHROPIC NEXT SLIDE
ON OUR COVER ART. THIS IS STABLE
DIFFUSION. NEXT SLIDE. OUR
ARTIST LIKENESSES. THIS IS FROM
THE RECENT MET GALA. THERE WAS A
FAKE IMAGES FROM ARTISTS. NEXT
SLIDE. AND NOW ON OUR MUSIC. SO
TWO RECENT APPLICATIONS YOU KNOW
AND AUDIO STATE OF THE ART MUSIC
GENERATION TECHNOLOGIES. THEY
WON'T SAY WHAT THEY TRAINED ON.
I'M GOING TO PLAY YOU SOME CLIPS
AND I THINK YOU'LL COME TO THE
SAME CONCLUSION THAT WE DID.
NEXT SLIDE. SO THE PROMPTS THESE
ARE TEXT TO MUSIC GENERATORS.
YOU TYPE IN A DESCRIPTION, YOU
GET MUSIC OUT, WE ARE NOT
TELLING IT SPECIFICALLY WHAT
MUSIC TO MAKE. YOU KNOW, WE'RE
NOT NAMING THE NAME OF THE SONG.
IF EVEN IF WE DID AND THAT'S
WHAT CAME OUT, YOU WOULD KNOW
THAT THAT WAS IN THE TRAINING
SET, RIGHT? SO PLEASE PLAY THE
FIRST ONE. GALILEO. GALILEO.
GALILEO LEO. BIÂU. ROMAN.
MISTICO ALL RIGHT. I THINK MOST
PEOPLE WOULD RECOGNIZE THAT AS
BOHEMIAN RHAPSODY, NEXT ONE.
ESTÁ NØ. THIS IS THE MINIMAL,
THE MIC DROPPING BOMBS THAT HIT
WITH ALL MY MIGHT. YEAH, I SPIT
FIRE, MAKE THE CROWD GO WILD A
RAP KING AIN'T NO ONE IN MY
STYLE, OKAY? THE PROP WAS AN
ARTIST NAMED EMINEM. NEXT TRACK.
OUR NEXT SLIDE. OKAY. THIS IS.
YOU CAN SEE THE PROMPT ON
SCREEN, BUT THIS IS, YOU KNOW,
TRYING TO GET AT SOMETHING LIKE
ABA AND THEN. WE CAN SENSE WE
CAN DIVE RIGHT NEXT ONE. SEE
THAT GIRL WATCH THAT SCENE.
DIGGING THE DANCING QUEEN. OKAY
I'M GONNA SAY MELODY NEXT SLIDE.
OKAY. YOU CAN PLAY THE FIRST
ONE. I'LL JUST LET YOU GO TO
FACE THE TRUTH AND STAND. IT'S
GONNA PAY ME FOR. AND LAST ONE
AIN'T NO MOUNTAIN TO CRY, BABY.
GAMBERT THROUGH. LET'S RUN AND.
AND AM I READING THIS RIGHT?
THESE ARE ALL FROM A GENERATIVE
AI MODEL CALLED UTEO. YES. AND
WHO DO WE KNOW WHOSE MODEL THAT
IS? I DON'T KNOW THAT ONE.
THAT'S A COMPANY. SO IT'S A
COMPANY. OKAY. IT'S SOME PEOPLE
WHO LEFT, GOOGLE, DEEPMIND AND
OTHER PLACES AND STARTED THIS
COMPANY AND THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT
SO YOU CAN TELL THAT IT'S BASED
ON VERY WELL KNOWN CONTENT.
RIGHT THAT LAST SLIDE. SO I
THINK OVERALL, THE TAKEAWAY OF
MY MESSAGE IS WE'RE USING AI. WE
ARE NOT WE DON'T BELIEVE THAT AI
IS EVIL. WE'RE ACTIVELY USING IT
IN LOTS AND LOTS OF DIFFERENT
WAYS. BUT WE HAVE CHALLENGES
BECAUSE A LOT OF COMPANIES ARE
TRADING ON OUR CONTENT, MUSIC,
IMAGES, LYRICS, LIKENESSES,
WITHOUT AUTHORIZATION. AND
THAT'S NOT JUST. MR. SABATINI,
YOU'RE UP. CHAIR GIBSON, CHAIR
BAUER. KHN AND ESTEEMED MEMBERS
OF THE COMMITTEES, I'M PATRICK
SABATINI, I'M SENIOR VICE
PRESIDENT OF LEGAL AND BUSINESS
AFFAIRS FOR WARNER MUSIC, I
NEGOTIATE RECORDING CONTRACTS
WITH ARTISTS FOR A LIVING. I
ENGAGE DEVELOPERS OF EMERGING
TECHNOLOGIES, INCLUDING AI, AND
IDENTIFY INNOVATIVE AND
STRATEGIC BUSINESS OPPORTUNITIES
. I ALSO SEEK TO ENFORCE OUR
RIGHTS TO PROTECT MUSIC AND
ARTISTS. IT IS AN HONOR TO BE
HERE TODAY TO DISCUSS BOTH THE
PROMISE AND THE PERIL OF
GENERATIVE ARTIFICIAL
INTELLIGENCE. WARNER MUSIC IS
HOME TO SOME OF THE WORLD'S MOST
ICONIC ARTISTS PAST, PRESENT,
AND FUTURE. WE WORK PASSIONATELY
EVERY DAY TO FIND AND DEVELOP
THOSE ARTISTS TO DELIVER
INCREDIBLE MUSIC AND EXPERIENCES
THAT ENRICH, INSPIRE AND UPLIFT
MILLIONS OF LIVES AROUND THE
WORLD. TO THAT END, WARNER MUSIC
HAS ALWAYS EMBRACED THE MARRIAGE
OF EMERGING TECHNOLOGY AND MUSIC
TO OFFER FANS NEW OPPORTUNITIES
TO ENGAGE WITH THE MUSIC THAT
THEY LOVE. WE APPRECIATE THE
IMMENSE POTENTIAL OF AI AS A
TOOL TO ASSIST ARTISTS IN THE
CREATIVE PROCESS. WE HAVE
ALREADY BEGUN WORKING WITH
RESPONSIBLE AI PLATFORMS IN THIS
REGARD. FOR EXAMPLE, EARLIER
THIS MONTH WE RELEASED WHERE
THAT CAME FROM, WHICH IS A NEW
RECORDING BY AMERICAN ICON RANDY
TRAVIS, WHO SUFFERS APHASIA
AFTER A STROKE THAT HE SUFFERED
OVER A DECADE AGO. AI ENABLED
VOCAL PRODUCTION HAS ALLOWED
RANDY TO RELEASE NEW MUSIC IN
HIS VOICE UNDER HIS SUPERVISION.
THIS RECORDING, TO US, IS A
MODEL FOR THE ETHICAL USE OF
MACHINE LEARNING TOOLS TO
ENHANCE HUMAN AUTHORSHIP. I'D
LIKE TO PLAY A CLIP FOR YOU
RIGHT NOW.
SHE HAD EYES LIKE DIAMONDS. AND
THEY CAUGHT THE LIGHT. OH, BUT
THEY WERE DARK AND DEEPER THAN
THE NIGHT. BUT WHEN SHE'D SMILE.
OUT CAME THE SUN. AND THERE
AIN'T NO MORE WHERE THAT CAME
FROM. SO THIS EXAMPLE HIGHLIGHTS
OUR COMMITMENT TO PUTTING HUMAN
ARTISTRY FIRST, AND USING AI
COLLABORATIVELY WITH ARTISTS TO
EXPAND AND EXTEND THEIR
CREATIVITY. LIKE EVERY BUSINESS,
AI DEVELOPERS MUST ACT LAWFULLY
AND RESPONSIBLY. UNFORTUNATELY
SEVERAL MAJOR AI PLATFORMS HAVE
INGESTED AND CONTINUED TO INGEST
CATALOGS OF COPYRIGHTED MUSIC
MADE AND OWNED BY OTHERS TO
TRAIN THEIR SYSTEMS WITHOUT
AUTHORIZATION OR COMPENSATION.
THÀNH, OBVIOUSLY IN VIOLATION OF
US COPYRIGHT LAW. SOME PLATFORMS
ARE THEN USING THAT MUSIC TO
CREATE UNAUTHORIZED CLONES OF
ARTISTS AND PERFORMERS THAT ROB
THESE INDIVIDUALS OF THEIR
AUTONOMY AND THEIR IDENTITIES,
IN VIOLATION OF CALIFORNIA'S
RIGHTS OF PUBLICITY. STATUTES
ARTISTS SPEND YEARS DEVELOPING
AND HONING THEIR CRAFT AND
UNIQUE VOICES, ALLOWING OTHERS
TO STEAL AN ARTIST'S LIKENESS
AND VOICE IS TANTAMOUNT TO
ALLOWING THEM TO STEAL THEIR
LIVELIHOOD, AND IT PUTS THE
ARTISTS IN A PERVERSE POSITION
TO BE COMPETING WITH THEMSELVES
IN THE MARKETPLACE. THE EFFECTS
CAN BE DESTRUCTIVE PERSONALLY
AND FINANCIALLY, AND CAN DILUTE
THE QUALITY OF ART UPON WHICH
FANS HAVE COME TO RELY. THE
SOCIETAL COST IS A STIFLING OF
CREATIVITY THAT LEAVES US ALL
DIMINISHED CULTURALLY. I WOULD
LIKE TO PLAY FOR YOU A BRIEF
CLIP OF SHARE, ANOTHER ONE OF
WARNER'S ARTIST PARTNERS,
DESCRIBING HER SENSE OF PERSONAL
VIOLATION IN HER OWN WORDS AFTER
BEING VICTIMIZED BY A DEEPFAKE
NO, BECAUSE SOMEONE DID Ã ME
SINGING A MADONNA SONG AND IT
WAS KIND OF SHOCKING. THEY
DIDN'T HAVE IT DOWN PERFECTLY.
BUT ALSO, I'VE SPENT MY ENTIRE
LIFE TRYING TO BE MYSELF AND NOW
THESE ARE GOING TO GO TAKE IT
AND THEY'LL DO MY ACTING AND
THEY'LL DO MY SINGING. AND I
MEAN, IT'S JUST IT'S OUT OF
CONTROL. IT'S JUST NOT I KNOW
BECAUSE SOMEONE DID Ã THAT.
YEAH, THAT'S JUST A LOOP. ANYWAY
SO WHAT DOES THE MUSIC INDUSTRY
NEED FROM LEGISLATORS IN THIS
REGARD? SPECIFICALLY, WE NEED
FOUR THINGS. I THINK MY
COLLEAGUES HAVE SORT OF TOUCHED
UPON THEM ALREADY, BUT I'LL
REPEAT THEM, THOSE FOUR THINGS
WILL BE NECESSARY TO ENSURE THAT
THE INTEGRATION OF AI INTO THE
MUSIC ECOSYSTEM IS DONE IN A
MANNER THAT RESPECTS HUMAN
CREATIVITY, TÊ, HUMAN IDENTITY,
AND PROPERTY RIGHTS. THE FIRST,
OF COURSE, IS CONSENT. THE USE
OF COPYRIGHTED PROTECTED
MATERIALS, AND THE VOICES AND
LIKENESSES OF PERSONS IN AI
MODELS MUST REQUIRE CONSENT.
MONETIZATION. THE GRANT OF
COPYRIGHTS AND LIKENESS AND
VOICE RIGHTS MUST BE SUBJECT TO
FREE MARKET LICENSING, AND
RECOGNIZE THE RIGHT FOR OWNERS
AND ARTISTS TO DECIDE WHETHER
AND ON WHAT TERMS THEIR PROPERTY
MAY BE USED TO OPERATIONALIZE
CONSENT AND MONETIZATION AT
SCALE. WE ALSO NEED ATTRIBUTION,
WHEREBY AI DEVELOPERS MUST
IDENTIFY AI GENERATED OUTPUTS
THROUGH LABELS AND WATERMARKS.
ALTHOUGH THAT GOT A WHOLE SHOT
IN IT TODAY. SO. SO HOPEFULLY
MAYBE WE FIND SOME OTHER
SOLUTION THAT MAKES THE THAT
REPLACES THE NOTION OF
WATERMARKS AS SOMETHING THAT
WOULD THAT WOULD INDICATE AN AI
OUTPUT AND THEN OF COURSE,
RECORD KEEPING AND PROVENANCE,
WHEREBY AI DEVELOPERS MUST BE
REQUIRED TO KEEP SUFFICIENTLY
DETAILED RECORDS OF THE OF THE
COPYRIGHTS THAT THEY TRAIN THEIR
MODELS ON, TO ENABLE BOTH
ENFORCEMENT OF PROPERTY RIGHTS
AND, OF COURSE, DISCLOSURE OF
WHAT'S BEEN USED. CALIFORNIA'S
RIGHT OF PUBLICITY STATUTE
GRANTS IMPORTANT PROPERTY RIGHTS
THAT PROTECT AGAINST MANY
UNETHICAL AND UNLAWFUL USES OF
SOMEONE'S VOICE OR IMAGE WITHOUT
THEIR PERMISSION. IMPORTANTLY
FOR LIVING ARTISTS, CALIFORNIA'S
STATUTE DOES NOT CONTAIN BROAD
EXCEPTIONS THAT SKIRT THE
PROTECTION. UNFORTUNATELY THE
STATUTE INCORPORATES BROAD
EXCEPTIONS THAT DO NEGATE THE
PROTECTION FOR DECEASED ARTISTS.
AS WE'VE TALKED ABOUT TO SOME
EXTENT ALREADY, LEAVING ESTATES
AND LOVED ONES WITH LITTLE
RECOURSE AGAINST THE USE OF
ARTISTS VOICE AND LIKENESS BY AI
DEVELOPERS. I'D LIKE TO THANK
THE CHAIRWOMAN, FOR CONTINUING
TO CONTINUING TO WORK WITH US
AND WITH LABOR ON AB 1836, WHICH
ADDRESSES THIS PROBLEM BY
PROVIDING DIGITAL REPLICA
PROTECTIONS FOR DECEASED
PERFORMERS WHILE RESPECTING USES
THAT FALL WITHIN FIRST AMENDMENT
PROTECTIONS. WE HAVE WORKED WITH
OUR UNION PARTNERS TO PROPOSE
SOME PERFECTING AMENDMENTS TO AB
1836, AND WE WOULD THAT WE FEEL
WOULD BE THE NECESSARY TO ENSURE
THAT LIFELIKE DIGITAL REPLICAS
CANNOT BE MADE WITHOUT CONSENT.
ASSEMBLY MEMBER IRWIN'S AI
TRAINING TRANSPARENCY BILL, Ã
AB 2013, HOLDS GREAT POTENTIAL
TO HELP CREATORS ENFORCE THEIR
RIGHTS BY PROMOTING RECORD
KEEPING AND DISCLOSURE BY AI
DEVELOPERS IF IT IS AMENDED TO
REQUIRE MORE SPECIFIC DETAILS
ABOUT THE USE OF COPYRIGHTED
WORKS, THIS BILL WOULD BE AN
INVALUABLE TOOL TO HELP CREATIVE
THE CREATIVE COMMUNITY ENFORCE
ITS RIGHTS. TENNESSEE HAS
RECENTLY ENACTED THE ENSURING
LIKENESS, VOICE AND IMAGE
SECURITY, OR ELVIS ACT, WHICH
EXPANDS THE NAME, IMAGE, AND
LIKENESS PROTECTIONS TO INCLUDE
VOIGTS AND PROHIBITS BOTH THE
MISAPPROPRIATION AND THE
PROMULGATION OF TOOLS DESIGNED
TO CREATE A PARTICULAR PERSON'S
IMAGE OR VOICE WITHOUT THEIR
CONSENT, ALL WHILE PRESERVING NÓ
, AN EXPANSIVE FIRST AMENDMENT
PROTECTIONS BY PASSING AMENDED
VERSIONS OF AB, AB 1836, AND AB
2013, CALIFORNIA HAS AN
OPPORTUNITY TO JOIN TENNESSEE IN
PROVIDING USEFUL MODELS FOR
OTHER STATES AND THE FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT. IN SUMMARY, ARTISTS
WHO CHOOSE TO LEAN INTO AI
SHOULD GET TO DO SO IN A FREE
MARKETPLACE. IF THEY ELECT NOT
TO ENGAGE WITH AI, THAT SHOULD
BE THEIR RIGHT TO. WE WILL
CONTINUE TO PARTNER WITH
RESPONSIBLE COMPANIES TO
IDENTIFY USES OF AI THAT BENEFIT
MUSIC AND ARTISTS AND FANS, AND
WE WILL CONTINUE OUR FIGHT
AGAINST UNAUTHORIZED
MISAPPROPRIATION OF ARTISTS WORK
AND THEIR IDENTITIES. THANK YOU.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH, HAVE A
QUESTION FOR THE PANEL. BUT
BEFORE I GO THERE, I WANT MY
COLLEAGUE WHO JUST JOINED US,
MR. MIKE FONG, TO PROVIDE ANY
OPENING COMMENTS BEFORE WE START
ASKING QUESTIONS. THANK YOU SO
MUCH, CHAIR GIBSON AND CHAIR
BAUER-KAHAN FOR THE OPPORTUNITY
TO JOIN YOU HERE TODAY AND LOOK
FORWARD TO ROBUST CONVERSATION
AS WE LOOK AT THE USAGE OF
ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE IN THE
ENTERTAINMENT INDUSTRY. AND TO
REALLY LOOK AT HOW WE CONTINUE
TO PROTECT, LOOK AT ITS IMPACT
ON MUSIC PRODUCTION AND PROTECT
ARTIST RIGHTS HERE. SO THANK YOU
SO MUCH. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. SO
MY FIRST QUESTION IS THANK YOU,
ALL FOR GIVING US AND
ENLIGHTENING US IN THIS SPACE IN
THE MUSIC INDUSTRY. OBVIOUSLY
PROTECTING THEIR LIKENESS,
INDIVIDUALS, ARTISTS, VOICES ARE
A BIG CONCERN TO ARTISTS, BUT,
BUT WHAT ARE THE BIGGEST
CONCERNS THAT LABEL COMPANIES
HAVE? I THINK THAT WE ONLY EXIST
TO SERVICE THE ARTISTS. SO THE
ARTISTS CONCERNS ARE OUR
CONCERNS. WE WANT TO MAKE SURE
THAT PEOPLE WHO ARE USING THEIR
CREATIONS HAVE AUTHORIZATION TO
DO SO, AND PEOPLE WHO ARE WANT
TO USE THEIR LIKENESSES HAVE
AUTHORIZATION TO DO SO. SO I
THINK WE'RE PERFECTLY ALIGNED. I
AGREE, TOTALLY ALIGNED. FOR THE
ARTIST COMMUNITY. MY NEXT
QUESTION IS DOES ARTISTS HAVE
PROTECTIONS, IF SOMEONE CREATES
INSTRUMENTAL WITHOUT THE LYRICS,
IS THERE ANY PROTECTIONS YOU CAN
SEE IN THAT SPACE, OR. IT'S AN
INTERESTING QUESTION. I
APPRECIATE THE QUESTION. I THINK
THAT RIGHT. I MEAN, WE STILL
HAVE IN OUR, COPYRIGHT LAW, THE
NOTION OF COMPULSORY LICENSING
WHEN IT COMES TO THE RECREATION
OF AN LIKE, BASICALLY, IF YOU'RE
GOING TO DO A, A COVER OF A SONG
THAT'S STILL PERMISSIBLE. RIGHT?
AND BUT YOU STILL HAVE BUT IT,
IT FALLS INTO A STATUTORY
LICENSING REGIME AS TO THE
MUSICAL COMPOSITION UNDERLYING
IT. SO IF YOU WERE SORT OF
PROMPTING THE OUTPUT OF A
SPECIFIC SONG IN THE FORM OF A
COVER, AS LONG AS THAT COVER WAS
PAYING THE SONGWRITER, THAT THAT
COULD BE OKAY. BUT BUT BUT YEAH,
YOU YOU I THINK IT WOULD ALSO
BOIL DOWN TO IS THE ARTIST IN
QUESTION PRIMARILY OR OR OR OR
AT LEAST PARTIALLY PRIMARILY AN
INSTRUMENTALISTS. RIGHT. IF YOU
WERE TALKING ABOUT SOMEBODY WHO,
AS AN INSTRUMENTAL PLAYER WAS,
WAS WAS A GUITAR VIRTUOSO, FOR
EXAMPLE, AND WHAT YOU WERE
ASKING THE MODEL TO CREATE WAS A
GUITAR VIRTUOSO PIECE. THEN.
THEN IT'S THE SAME EXACT THING
AS WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT FOR
A VOCALIST, RIGHT? SO I THINK IT
, I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE VERY,
SORT OF CONTEXTUALLY RELEVANT
WHAT IT IS WE'RE ASKING THE
MODEL TO DO. RIGHT. AND IF I CAN
ADD JUST ONE POINT. SO IF YOU'RE
TRAINING SOMETHING TO SOUND LIKE
A PARTICULAR PERSON, WHETHER
IT'S THEIR VOICE OR THEIR GUITAR
PLAYING, YOU STILL NEED TO HAVE
TRAINING MATERIAL TO DO THAT. SO
IF THE IF THE PERFORMER DIDN'T
GIVE THEIR AUTHORIZATION TO USE
THAT, THEN YOU'RE INFRINGING
COPYRIGHT WHEN YOU'RE COPYING TO
MAKE THE TRAINING MATERIAL.
SOMEONE THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR
TESTIMONY. AND I HAVE TO SAY,
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I HAVE
DRILLED INTO MY DAUGHTER'S HEAD
IS THAT GIRLS DON'T GIVE UP
THEIR VOICE TO URSULA. NO MATTER
WHAT. SO IT'S AN IMPORTANT
LESSON THAT WE TAKE OUT OF THIS.
OUR VOICES ARE OUR OWN, SO OFTEN
WHEN I TALK ABOUT AI AND WHERE
WE AS POLICYMAKERS SHOULD GO, I
LIKEN IT TO THE ADVENT OF THE
INTERNET AND SOCIAL MEDIA AND A
REAL FAILURE ON THE PART OF
POLICYMAKERS TO PROTECT SOCIETY
FROM, THOSE TECHNOLOGIES IS
REALLY PRIORITIZING INNOVATION
AT ALL COSTS. AND I THINK THAT
AS WE WERE THINKING ABOUT THIS
HEARING, WHEN I THOUGHT ABOUT
MISTAKES OF THE PAST, PERHAPS,
AND WE GOT THIS HALFWAY RIGHT.
MAYBE. MAYBE YOU THINK NOT RIGHT
AT ALL. IT REALLY MADE ME THINK
OF THE NAPSTER DAYS. I'M AGING
MYSELF. MAYBE. BUT WHEN PEOPLE
WERE STEALING ALL OF THE CONTENT
ONLINE, JUST WILLY NILLY. AND,
YOU KNOW, WE SEEM TO HAVE GOTTEN
TO A PLACE WHERE NOW IT AT LEAST
ARTISTS ARE BEING PAID MAYBE
PENNIES ON THE DOLLAR, THOUGH,
RIGHT? SO I THINK THERE REALLY
IS SOME OUTCOMES OF THAT THAT
COULD WE HAVE DONE BETTER AND SO
I SAY THAT TO SAY HOW DO WE
LEARN FROM THE PAST TO DO BETTER
IN THE FUTURE? RIGHT. HOW DO WE
MAKE SURE THAT AS WE DO THIS
REGULATION AND START TO SORT OF
REIN THIS IN AND PROTECT
CREATIVES, ARE THERE LESSONS TO
TAKE FROM THAT PERIOD? I THINK
THERE CERTAINLY ARE. I THINK
THAT I THINK THE FACT THAT WE'RE
HAVING THIS HEARING IS, IS IN
AND OF ITSELF, A LEARNING RIGHT,
BECAUSE NAPSTER WAS SOMETHING
THAT GOT VERY FAR OUT OF THE
BARN BEFORE ANYBODY DECIDED TO,
TO REALLY DRILL DOWN ON HOW TO,
TO CONTAIN IT, I FEEL LIKE THIS
IS THIS IS AN INSTANCE WHERE WE
ARE WE'RE A LITTLE BIT MORE IN
FRONT OF IT. I MEAN, IT'S A
CONVERSATION THAT PROBABLY
SHOULD HAVE HAPPENED A YEAR AGO,
BUT BUT AT LEAST WE'RE HERE NOW,
WHERE I THINK A LOT OF THE
TECHNOLOGISTS WOULD, WOULD HAVE
US BELIEVE THAT WE SHOULD SORT
OF WAIT AND SEE, LIKE, DON'T
LEGISLATE TOO EARLY. LET'S SEE
WHERE IT GOES. BUT THAT'S BUT
THAT'S A, YOU KNOW, TO ME, A
FALSE DECISION BECAUSE WE'VE
WE'RE AT A POINT NOW WHERE,
WHERE IF WE DON'T DO SOMETHING
THEN, THEN THE, THEN THE CAT
WILL BE COMPLETELY OUT OF THE
BAG AND THERE WILL BE NO PUTTING
IT BACK IN, AT LEAST IN THIS
MOMENT, EVEN THOUGH THERE ARE
MANY, MANY MODELS THAT HAVE
GOTTEN VERY FAR AHEAD IN THE
LEARNING CURVE BY INGESTING
MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF COPYRIGHTED
MATERIAL, WE CAN AT LEAST NOW,
YOU KNOW, PUT A STOP TO IT AND
SORT OF REALIGN HOW WE LOOK AT
THE LANDSCAPE. THANK YOU.
ANYTHING TO ADD OR, I APPRECIATE
THAT. WE'RE DOING OUR BEST.
LET'S HOPE WE GET IT DONE. WE'RE
ONLY ONE PART OF THE PUZZLE HERE
IN THE LEGISLATURE, AND I'VE
BEEN AMAZED AT HOW HARD THESE
EFFORTS HAVE BEEN THUS FAR THIS
YEAR, I INTRODUCED MY FIRST GI
BILL A YEAR AGO. PRIOR ACTUALLY,
RIGHT WHEN GPT HAD COME OUT AND
EVERYONE WAS LIKE, WHAT ARE YOU
DOING THAT HAS SHIFTED? PEOPLE
NOW UNDERSTAND WHY WE WANT TO
REGULATE ARTIFICIAL
INTELLIGENCE, BUT IT'S STILL
INCREDIBLY HARD. SO I THINK IT'S
IMPORTANT WE HAVE THESE
CONVERSATIONS SO PEOPLE SEE THE
BENEFIT OF IT, I HAVE ONE OTHER
QUESTION, AND I WANT TO ALSO
HIGHLIGHT, IN MY EXPERIENCE,
CARRYING ONE OF THESE PIECES OF
LEGISLATION, IT REALLY HAS BEEN
AMAZING TO SEE THE LABELS AND
THE ARTISTS SO ALIGNED AND
PROTECTING THAT ART AND
UNDERSTANDING THAT THE FUTURE IS
BETTER FOR IT. I WISH WE COULD
SEE ALL INDUSTRIES LINING UP
WITH THEIR CREATIVES, AND
HOPEFULLY THAT WILL BE THE
FUTURE WE MOVE INTO. SO, YOU
KNOW, WE TALKED ABOUT THE
LYRICS, WE TALKED ABOUT, THE
MUSIC BEHIND IT, THE GUITAR
PLAYING, ETC, THE TRAINING. I
THINK THAT IS REALLY WELL
PROTECTED AND GROUNDED
INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY LAW. THOSE
ELEMENTS AND HOW MUCH, YOU KNOW,
THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF CASE LAW
ON HOW MUCH YOU HAVE TO CHANGE
IT FOR IT NOT TO BE PROTECTED BY
LAW, ETC. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT
CONCERNS ME ABOUT, YOU KNOW,
THESE EXAMPLES AND OTHERS THAT
WE'VE SEEN IS THAT YOU CAN HAVE
A MODEL THAT'S TRAINED AGAIN ON
A SINGLE ARTIST, RIGHT? THERE'S
NOTHING TO SAY. MODELS HAVE TO
BE TRAINED ON A VAST ARRAY OF
INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY. AND THEN
I COULD PUT IN THAT I WANT
SOMETHING IN THE STYLE OF THAT
ARTIST. RIGHT. SO NOT THE
VOCALS, NOT THE ACTUAL GUITAR
PLAYING, BUT, YOU KNOW, LET'S
SAY I MAKE A MODEL THAT'S
TRAINED TO ONLY ON TAYLOR SWIFT,
AND NOW I WANT SOMETHING LIKE
TAYLOR SWIFT. RIGHT? I THINK YOU
HAVE SOME INPUT PROBLEMS THERE.
RIGHT? YOU HAVE THE DATA SET
PROBLEM, BUT WE HAVEN'T YET SEEN
WHAT THE COURTS ARE GOING TO DO
WITH SORT OF A BROAD ARRAY OF
DATA SETS, RIGHT, WHERE YOU HAVE
A DATA SET THAT WAS TRAINED ON
EVERY ARTIST IN YOUR PORTFOLIO.
AND NOW YOU WANT A COUNTRY
ARTIST SONG, RIGHT? THAT'S SORT
OF IN THAT STYLE. AND IT'S USING
THAT INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY TO
CREATE NEW WORKS. AND IS THAT AS
WELL PROTECTED? AND I GUESS
THAT'S SO HOW FAR OUT DO YOU
HAVE TO BE TO LOSE THE
PROTECTIONS OF THE LAW? AND HOW
ARE WE THINKING ABOUT THAT SO
THAT WHAT I SHOWED YOU, THAT'S
BASICALLY TRAINING ON EVERYTHING
. OKAY. THEY'VE TRAINED ON
EVERYTHING. AND EVEN IN THE
VOICE MODELS THAT ARE SPECIFIC
TO A UNIQUE PERSON, USUALLY THE
WAY THAT ALL THESE THINGS WORK
IS YOU NEED TO TRAIN IT UP TO
THE POINT WHERE IT KIND OF, YOU
KNOW, CAN DO A VOICE AND THEN
YOU FINE TUNE IT TO DO A
SPECIFIC VOICE. SO IN THE MUSIC
GENERATION CASE, YOU NEED TO
TRAIN IT UP ENOUGH THAT IT HAS
BASIC MUSICAL CAPABILITY. AND
THEN YOU START TO GIVE IT THE
ABILITY TO SOUND LIKE PARTICULAR
PEOPLE. AND YOU CAN IMAGINE, AS
YOU SAID, SOMEONE MAKES SOMEONE
TRAINS A GENERAL MODEL AND THEN
FINE TUNES. IT JUST ON TAYLOR
SWIFT MATERIAL. AND THIS IS
REALLY GOOD AT DOING TAYLOR
SWIFT MATERIAL. AND I THINK FROM
A COPYRIGHT STANDPOINT, IT'S
EXACTLY THE SAME IN EITHER CASE,
WHATEVER YOU'RE TRAINING ON, IF
YOU DON'T HAVE AUTHORIZATION,
YOU'RE COPYRIGHT INFRINGER, AND
THEN THERE'S THE SEPARATE
LIKENESS QUESTION. AND THE
INTERESTING THING HERE IS THAT
YOU HAVE THE COPYRIGHT ON THE
OUTPUT. YOU COULD GENERATE
SOMETHING THAT IS BASICALLY A
TAYLOR SWIFT SONG AS OUTPUT.
THAT WOULD BE AN INFRINGEMENT ON
OUTPUT. OR YOU COULD DO
SOMETHING THAT IT'S TOTALLY NEW
LYRICS. NO ONE'S EVER HEARD THE
LYRICS, NO ONE'S EVER HEARD THE
MUSIC BEFORE, BUT THE VOICE IS
RECOGNIZABLY HER. AND THAT WOULD
BE A RIGHT OF PUBLICITY ISSUE.
SO I'M NOT SURE IF I ANSWER YOUR
QUESTION. YEAH, NO, I THINK YOU
DID. I THINK THAT AND THIS IS
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT, YOU KNOW
, AS YOU CAN TELL, PERHAPS I'VE
BEEN THINKING ABOUT A LOT, IS
THAT IT SEEMS EASIER TO PROTECT
THE INPUTS AND THE OUTPUTS UNDER
THE LAW TODAY, AND THAT'S MAYBE
A GOOD THING AND MAYBE NOT A
GOOD THING. RIGHT. HOW DO WE
PROTECT FROM THOSE OUTPUTS? I
THINK THAT'S WHERE THE
PROVENANCE ISSUE COMES INTO
PLAY. WHERE WHERE, YOU KNOW, THE
INPUTS END UP WITH SOME KIND OF
METADATA FINGERPRINTING SO THAT
THE OUTPUT SHOWS HOW HOW WHAT IS
COMPRISED OF. RIGHT, SO THAT YOU
ACTUALLY CAN SEE HOW THE DATA
BROKE OUT IN TERMS OF SORT OF AN
AMOUNT AND PROPORTIONALITY OF
THE OF THE MATERIALS THAT IT
DREW FROM, FROM THE DATA SET.
GOT IT. AND I WILL SAY ON THE
WATERMARKING POINT, I AGREE WITH
THE PROFESSOR THAT IT'S REALLY
NOT WHERE IT NEEDS TO BE TODAY,
BUT I THINK THE ROLE WE HAVE AS
POLICYMAKERS AND THE EU REALLY
DID TAKE THE FIRST STEP IN WHAT
THEY DID ON WATERMARKING IS TO
IS TO SIGNAL THIS IS WHAT
GOVERNMENT IS GOING TO REQUIRE.
AND TECHNOLOGISTS ARE AMAZING
WHEN WE TELL THEM THIS IS WHAT'S
GOING TO BE NEEDED. AND THERE'S
A LOT OF MONEY OUT THERE. IF
YOU'RE THE ONE WHO GETS THERE,
THERE IS A RUSH TO CREATE
TECHNOLOGY THAT'S SUCCESSFUL.
AND SO I REALLY AND I THINK
CALIFORNIA HAS SEVERAL BILLS
MOVING THAT ARE INDICATING THE
SAME THING, THAT BOTH EUROPE AND
CALIFORNIA ARE GOING TO BE
REQUIRING THIS TECHNOLOGY. AND
WE'RE GOING TO SEE INDUSTRY
COME, COME TO THE TABLE AND
CREATE SOME TECHNOLOGY THAT WILL
SOLVE THAT PROBLEM. SO I THINK
RIGHT NOW OUR ROLE IN
WATERMARKING IS EXACTLY THAT.
AND EUROPE REALLY TOOK A HUGE
FIRST STEP IN PUTTING TOGETHER
THEIR WORK GROUP ON THAT. SO I'M
OPTIMISTIC THE WATERMARKING
MAYBE NOT BY THE ELECTION. I
AGREE WITH THE PROFESSOR, BUT
THAT IT WON'T BE TOO FAR OFF. I
HAVE ONE OTHER THING I'D LIKE TO
SAY ABOUT THE INPUT VERSUS
OUTPUT SIDE OF THINGS, I'VE
LEARNED A LOT ABOUT COPYRIGHT
LAW AND HOW THINGS WORK IN THIS
ROLE, AND I SEE THAT IT'S EASIER
TO PROTECT ON THE INPUT. THE
COPYRIGHT SIDE. AS AN ARTIST
MYSELF, I WILL SAY IT FEELS IN
SOME WAYS MORE VULNERABLE TO
HAVE THE, THE STYLE SIDE OF
THINGS LESS PROTECTED BECAUSE I
CAN TAKE TIME TO PUT TOGETHER A
PARTICULAR PIECE OF WRITING, OR
IF I WERE A MUSICIAN, A
PARTICULAR SONG, AND THAT WOULD
BE PROTECTED, THAT SPECIFIC
WORK, BUT IF MY STYLE ISN'T
PROTECTED, THEN I ANY FUTURE
PROJECTS THAT I WORK ON ARE MORE
VULNERABLE TO OTHER PEOPLE
TAKING THEM. DOES THAT MAKE
SENSE? IT DOES. AND IT'S ALSO
FROM A LEGAL PERSPECTIVE, REALLY
HARD TO DEFINE. RIGHT. WHICH I
THINK IS WHY I HAVE I, I HAVE
THE OTHERS NODDING. AND SO IT'S
I THINK IT'S A REALLY IMPORTANT
QUESTION. AND IT'S ONE OF THE
REASONS WHY I THINK YOU THINK IT
IS SO IMPORTANT IS BECAUSE I
THINK IS WHAT WILL PROTECT
ARTISTS THE MOST TO BE HONEST.
RIGHT, AND THEN THE QUESTION IS,
HOW DO WE DO IT? WHICH ISN'T
EASY, BUT THAT'S WHY WE TAKE
THESE JOBS, BECAUSE IT'S FUN TO
FIGURE OUT THE ANSWERS. BUT I
THINK PART OF THAT THOUGH,
RIGHT, IS THAT IF I AS A HUMAN
ARTIST, WERE INSPIRED BY YOUR
STYLE AND USED THAT AS A JUMPING
OFF POINT TO CREATE NEW CONTENT,
YEAH, THAT WOULD PROBABLY FEEL
LESS INVASIVE TO YOU THAN A
MACHINE DOING IT. THAT WOULD BE
AN HONOR. IF SOMEONE WERE TRYING
IT, WOULD IT WOULD BE AN HOMAGE.
IF SOMEONE WANTED TO RECREATE
THE CREATIVE STYLE THAT I USED
TO WRITE, I WOULD BE I WOULD BE
SO FLATTERED. BUT THERE'S A
DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ANOTHER
PERSON BEING INSPIRED BY MY WORK
AND A MACHINE TAKING IT APART TO
LOOK AT ITS COMPONENT FEATURES,
AND THEN PUT IT BACK TOGETHER IN
A WAY WITHOUT CREDITING ME.
THANK YOU, THANK YOU AGAIN.
ANOTHER ROBUST CONVERSATION.
THÀNH. SO I WANT TO THANK THIS
PANEL, WE MAY HAVE QUESTIONS
LATER ON, SO JUST SIT TIGHT. WE
WANT TO INVITE THE THIRD PANEL
UP, THE FILM AND TELEVISION,
INDUSTRY, THE PRODUCTION. WE
WANT TO INVITE UP JASON GEORGE,
THE ACTOR AND BOARD MEMBER OF
SAG-AFTRA. THANK YOU VERY MUCH
FOR BEING HERE. AND ALSO, DREW,
PLEASE PRONOUNCE YOUR LAST NAME
FOR ME SO I WON'T BUTCHER IT.
CONCEPT DESIGNERS AND ARTISTS
WITH A LONG CAREER IN FILM AND
TELEVISION, MEMBER OF LOCAL 800
ART DIRECTOR AND GUILD, I ALSO
WANT TO NOTE THAT WE DID IN FACT
EXTEND THE INVITATION TO THE
MOTION PICTURES ASSOCIATION, TO
BE PART OF THIS PANEL FOR THEIR
PERSPECTIVE ON THE USE OF AI,
BUT TODAY THEY DECLINED THE
INVITATION, AND WE HOPE THAT
THERE WILL BE FUTURE
OPPORTUNITIES TO INVITE, THE
MOTION PICTURES ASSOCIATION TO
BE PART OF THIS ROBUST
CONVERSATION, BECAUSE WE BELIEVE
THAT WE NEED TO HAVE A NUMBER OF
STAKEHOLDERS IN THIS SPACE WITH
US, IN ORDER TO DRIVE AT SOME
KIND OF CONCLUSION WHERE WE NEED
TO GO. AND THAT'S THE PURPOSE OF
THIS INFORMATIONAL HEARING TO
ELEVATE SOME CONCERNS. BUT ALSO
HAVE A ROBUST CONVERSATION. SO
WITH THAT BEING SAID, I WANT TO
WELCOME YOU BOTH FOR BEING HERE,
AND THANK YOU VERY MUCH. WE WANT
TO START OFF WITH MR. GEORGE,
YOU MAY BEGIN WHEN READY. JUST
PUSH THE BUTTON ON THE MY MIC ON
NOW. MIKE IS ON NOW. THANK YOU
VERY MUCH. APPRECIATE YOUR WORK.
OH APPRECIATE YOU. THANK YOU
VERY MUCH. GOOD MORNING. IT'S AN
HONOR TO BE HERE TODAY
DISCUSSING THIS IMPORTANT TOPIC,
AS YOU SAID, MY NAME IS JASON
GEORGE. I'M AN ACTOR, DIRECTOR
AND A PROUD MEMBER OF SAG-AFTRA,
MANY PEOPLE RECOGNIZE ME FROM MY
WORK AS A DOCTOR. I PLAYED
DOCTOR BEN WARREN ON GRAY'S
ANATOMY AND STATION 19. BUT WHEN
I'M NOT IN FRONT OF THE CAMERA
WITH MY FAMILY, I SPEND MOST OF
MY TIME CHAMPIONING PERFORMERS
PROTECTIONS, I HAVE SERVED ON
THE UNION'S NEGOTIATING
COMMITTEE FOR THE LAST TWO
DECADES OR SO, INCLUDING THE
LAST, YOU KNOW, THE PRIME TIME
TELEVISION AND FILM CONTRACTS
AND I WAS HEAVILY INVOLVED IN
LAST YEAR'S 2023 TV AND
THEATRICAL STRIKE. AS SUCH, I
WOULD LIKE TO SHED SOME LIGHT ON
HOW AI IMPACTS MY FELLOW
SAG-AFTRA MEMBERS. AI TECHNOLOGY
OFFERS A WEALTH OF ADVANTAGES IN
THE ENTERTAINMENT INDUSTRY.
COMPANIES CAN NOW LEVERAGE AI
BASED TOOLS TO CREATE, ENHANCE,
AND PERSONALIZE CONTENT IN
VARIOUS FORMS, SUCH AS MOVIES,
MUSIC, GAMING, AND TV, SPEEDING
UP THE CREATIVE PROCESS AND
FREEING UP HUMAN CREATIVES FOR
MORE COMPLEX WORK. IT ALLOWS FOR
EASIER FILM EDITING, ELIMINATES
MUCH OF THE COST OF THE NEED FOR
COSTLY RESHOOTS, AND ALLEVIATES
THE LOGISTICAL CHALLENGES OF
COORDINATING FILMING SESSIONS
AMONG BUSY, HIGHLY SOUGHT AFTER
ACTORS, WHICH WE ALL WISH TO BE
SOMEDAY, ACTORS TOO, CAN ENJOY
THE INCREASED FLEXIBILITY OF AI
TECHNOLOGY AS WE ARE ABLE TO
PARTICIPATE IN A GREATER NUMBER
OF PROJECTS AND HAVE NEW OUTLETS
FOR ENGAGEMENT WITH OUR FAN
BASES, I ALSO OFFERS NEW
OPPORTUNITIES FOR PERFORMERS
THAT WERE PREVIOUSLY THOUGHT
UNIMAGINABLE. FOR EXAMPLE,
DEEPFAKES, A FORM OF AI
TECHNOLOGY THAT REPLICATES VOICE
AND LIKENESS, HAVE BEEN USED TO
RESTORE PERFORMERS VOCAL
ABILITIES. AS WITH THE CASE OF
ACTOR VAL KILMER, WHO LOST HIS
VOICE FOLLOWING A BATTLE WITH
THROAT CANCER, A DEEPFAKE VOICE
CLONED FOR THE ACTOR WAS
CREATED, ALLOWING HIM TO ONCE
AGAIN TAKE ON SPEAKING ROLES AND
RESUME HIS CAREER. HIS VOICE.
HIS VOICE CLONE WAS USED IN THE
BOX OFFICE HIT TOP GUN MAVERICK,
WHICH I'M SURE MANY OF US SAW,
THESE EXAMPLES ILLUSTRATE A
BALANCE BETWEEN TECHNOLOGICAL
INNOVATION AND CREATIVE
EXPRESSION. BUT WHAT ENSURES
THIS BALANCE IS MAINTAINED? AND
WHILE A TECHNOLOGY MAY BE USED
BY ACTORS TO ENHANCE THEIR
ABILITIES, BOTH IN TERMS OF
ARTISTIC TALENT AND AVAILABILITY
FOR PROJECTS, IT MAY ALSO BE
USED BY COMPANIES TO BYPASS
COSTS AND THE INTRICATE
INTRICACIES OF DEALING WITH
HUMAN PERFORMERS. DEEPFAKES CAN
MIMIC THE VOICE, LIKENESS, AND
PERFORMANCE OF REAL ACTORS,
CREATING HIGHLY REALISTIC
DIGITAL REPLICAS POTENTIALLY
REDUCING THE NEED FOR HUMAN
PERFORMERS, PARTICULARLY
BACKGROUND ACTORS WHO HAVE
MINIMAL SPEAKING ROLES. ALSO,
STUNT PERFORMERS ARE INCREDIBLE
RISK IN THIS AREA BECAUSE AN
ACTOR'S DIGITAL REPLICA IS FAR
MORE VERSATILE THAN THE LIVING
ACTOR THEMSELVES. IT CAN BE USED
TO DO WHAT LIVING ACTORS CAN OR
WILL NOT, BE IT STUNTS, SEX
SCENES, OR LOW, LOW BUDGET
PERFORMANCES. FURTHERMORE ACTORS
MAY LOSE CONTROL OF THEIR IMAGE
AND LIKENESS IF I CAN REPLICATE
THEM WITHOUT THEIR CONSENT.
UNREGULATED USE OF DEEPFAKES
WOULD ALLOW COMPANIES TO
DIGITALLY CREATE AN ENTIRELY NEW
BODY OF WORK WITHOUT
CONSIDERATION. COMPENSATION OR
CONSENT FOR THE ARTIST WHOSE
VOICE AND LIKENESS IS BEING
USED, THEY COULD INSERT US INTO
SCENES THAT WE WOULD NOT HAVE
CONSENTED TO PREVIOUSLY, BE IT A
SCENE OF A SEXUAL NATURE OR
MATERIAL THAT WE FOUND
OBJECTIONABLE OURSELVES. THAT'S
A VIOLATION OF OUR ABILITY TO
COME TO COMPETE FAIRLY IN THE
EMPLOYMENT MARKETPLACE,
THREATENING NOT ONLY OUR
PERSONA, BUT ALSO OUR
LIVELIHOODS, AGAIN, I POINT OUT
THAT THE AREAS OF GREATEST
THREAT IN OUR MINDS ARE THE
MUSIC AND MUSIC, MUSICAL
ARTISTS, VOICE OVER ARTISTS,
STUNT PERFORMERS AND BACKGROUND
ARTISTS. THAT'S THE THEY'RE THE
CANARIES IN THE COAL MINE, IF
YOU WILL. IN TERMS OF, AS WE SEE
IT, AT THE GREATEST RISK
IMMEDIATELY, LIBRARIES OF STUNTS
BEING CREATED. AND THEN YOU
DON'T HAVE TO HIRE STUNT
PERFORMERS AS, SAME WITH
BACKGROUND ACTORS. THESE
UNCERTAINTIES SURROUNDING AI'S
ROLE IN THE INDUSTRY CAME TO A
HEAD LAST YEAR WHEN TENS OF
THOUSANDS OF SAG-AFTRA MEMBERS
NATIONWIDE CHOSE TO STRIKE
AGAINST EMPLOYERS. WE ENDURED
OVER 100 DAYS ON THE PICKET
LINES, AND THAT WAS IN ADDITION
TO SEVERAL A COUPLE OF MONTHS
THAT THE WGA WAS OUT FOR
ESSENTIALLY THE SAME ISSUES
WITHOUT PAY. AND AT THE RISK OF
LOSING OUR PENSION AND HEALTH
COVERAGE, OUR DEMANDS WERE
SIMPLE BETTER PAY, IMPROVED
WORKING CONDITIONS, AND MORE
RIGOROUS PROTECTIONS AGAINST THE
THREATS POSED BY ARTIFICIAL
INTELLIGENCE. OUR MEMBERSHIP
FELT IT WAS THAT IMPORTANT. SO
IN THE ABSENCE OF REGULATIONS
AND CLEAR LEGAL FRAMEWORKS
GUIDING THE USE OF AI, WE HAVE
BEEN LEFT TO FIGHT AGAINST
POTENTIAL EXPLOITATION
OURSELVES. AI TECHNOLOGY COULD
VERY QUICKLY LEAD TO THE
DEHUMANIZATION OF THE WORKFORCE.
HUMAN BEINGS NOT CORPORATIONS,
NOT TECHNOLOGY, SHOULD BE
ENTITLED TO A SAY IN HOW OUR
DIGITAL IDENTITY IS USED AND
THAT'S INCLUDING POSTHUMOUSLY
FOR ARTISTS AND CREATORS WHO
DEPEND ON OUR PERSONAL AND
INDIVIDUAL VOICE AND LIKENESS TO
MAKE A LIVING, WE NEED TO HAVE
OUR INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY
PROTECTED AGAINST AI SYSTEMS
THAT INGEST, USE, REPRODUCE,
MIMIC AND COMMERCIALIZE OUR
WORK. SAG-AFTRA WILL CONTINUE TO
FIGHT TO PROTECT VOICES AND
LIKENESSES FROM EXPLOITATION. WE
HOPE THIS LEGISLATURE CONTINUES
TO SUPPORT OUR EFFORTS. THANK
YOU FOR YOUR TIME. THANK YOU
VERY MUCH, DREW, IF YOU COULD
PLEASE PRONOUNCE YOUR LAST NAME
FOR ME, IT'S L®NG LEÓN. THANK
YOU VERY MUCH. PROCEED WHEN
READY. THANK YOU. THANK YOU.
MEMBERS OF THE CALIFORNIA STATE
ASSEMBLY FOR HAVING ME HERE
TODAY, MY NAME IS ANDREW DREW
L®NG, AND I'M A CONCEPT
DESIGNER. FOR THE LAST 15 YEARS
WHO STARTED IN THE INDUSTRY OVER
25 YEARS AGO IN VISUAL EFFECTS
AND ANIMATION. I AM ONE OF THE
MANY CRAFTSPEOPLE AND WORKING
ARTISTS IN THE ENTERTAINMENT
INDUSTRY THAT HAS HELPED DRIVE A
SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF THE
ECONOMY IN CALIFORNIA. SOME OF
THE FILMS I'VE WORKED ON, MORE
RECENTLY, INCLUDE BLACK PANTHER,
BLACK PANTHER, WAKANDA FOREVER,
LORD OF THE RINGS, RINGS OF
POWER, LA LA LAND, THE LION
KING, THE JUNGLE BOOK, AND
MULAN. I WANT TO MAKE ABUNDANTLY
CLEAR, THOUGH, THAT WHILE I AM
NOT REPRESENTING IATSE LOCAL 800
ART DIRECTORS GUILD TODAY, I AM
A PROUD RANK AND FILE UNION
MEMBER OF THE GUILD. I AM
ABSOLUTELY GRATEFUL FOR THE LONG
CAREER I HAVE HAD, AND I
ABSOLUTELY LOVE MY JOB, AS IT
HAS ALLOWED ME TO HAVE A MODEST
HOME AND RAISE MY FAMILY IN TWO
BEAUTIFUL CHILDREN. THE
FOLLOWING IS A SELECT EXAMPLE OF
SOME OF THE WORK I'VE DONE, AND
HOW IT ENDS UP INFLUENCING WHAT
GETS BUILT AND GOES ON THE
SCREEN. AS YOU CAN SEE ON THE
SLIDE RIGHT HERE IS SOME OF MY
EARLY CONCEPT WORK I HAVE DONE,
FOR THE FIRST FILM, BLACK
PANTHER. A LOT OF THIS IS I'M
USING ALL SORTS OF STUFF, FROM
PAINTING TO ANIMATION TO GET
THIS DONE. MY VERY BACKGROUND
ALLOWS ME TO DO THIS THE NEXT
SLIDE, IF YOU GO NEXT, WE'LL
SHOW YOU WHAT ACTUALLY LOOKS
LIKE ON THE FINAL. SO THIS IS
WHAT ACTUALLY ENDED UP IN THE
FILM. THIS IS THE FIRST SEQUENCE
FROM THE MOVIE BLACK PANTHER.
YOU DID THAT. YOU I DID, YES, I
DID. OH BRO. YOU. I'M SORRY.
GREAT JOB. THANK YOU. THANK YOU
VERY MUCH, SO YOU GET AN IDEA.
YOU CAN SEE HOW JUST FROM MY
WORK, HOW IT ACTUALLY INFLUENCES
THE REST OF THE FILM. YOU DON'T
HAVE TO FOLLOW IT. EXACTLY. BUT
IT GIVES THE PRODUCTION A GOOD
IDEA OF HOW WHAT WHAT GETS MADE,
A LOT OF WHAT I DO, MOST OF IT
CAN END UP ON THE CUTTING ROOM
FLOOR, BUT A LOT OF IT MAKES IT
THROUGH AND YOU CAN SEE HOW IT
CONNECTS, GO AHEAD AND GO TO THE
NEXT SLIDE. I ALSO WAS BROUGHT
BACK FOR THE FOLLOWING FILM FOR
WAKANDA FOREVER, IT WAS A I
DESIGNED A LOT OF SHURI'S LAB,
ETC. AND THIS IS WHERE WE'RE
GOING INTO OUR ACTUAL LAB.
APOLOGIZE. THE VIDEO IS PLAYING
A LITTLE BIT SLOW. ANYWAYS,
LET'S GO AHEAD AND STOP THE
SLIDE. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. ONE
OF THE REASONS WHY I'VE HAD SUCH
A LONG CAREER IS BECAUSE I'VE
ALWAYS BEEN AT THE FOREFRONT OF
TECHNOLOGY AND ADOPTING AND
ADAPTING TO NEW TOOLS THAT WOULD
NOT ONLY SPEED UP MY PROCESS,
BUT ALSO ALLOW ME TO BREAK NEW
BOUNDARIES IN DESIGN THAT WASN'T
PREVIOUSLY POSSIBLE.
ADDITIONALLY I AM GOOD AT MY JOB
NOT ONLY BECAUSE OF THE
TECHNOLOGY AND TOOLS I USE, BUT
BECAUSE NO MATTER WHAT IT IS
THAT I'M WORKING ON, I PUT MY
HEART AND MY SOUL INTO IT. I
REMEMBERED IT WAS WHILE I WAS
PAINTING MOWGLI, THE YOUNG
INDIAN BOY WHO BEFRIENDS BALOO
IN JUNGLE BOOK THAT I DECIDED
THAT I WANTED TO PROPOSE TO MY
WIFE AND START A FAMILY. I
REMEMBER IT WAS WHEN I WAS
FIGURING OUT HOW GALADRIEL FROM
LORD OF THE RINGS RINGS OF POWER
WOULD SCALE THE ICE WALL. IT WAS
WHEN MY WIFE HAD SUDDENLY CALLED
ME TO THE HOSPITAL FOR THE
ARRIVAL OF MY NEWBORN SON. A
LITTLE OVER A YEAR LATER, IT WAS
WHEN I CAME UP WITH THE IDEA FOR
THE SELF-SUSTAINING AIR BUBBLE
THAT WOULD BE CONTROLLED BY
NAMOR FOR THE MOVIE WAKANDA
FOREVER, THAT MY WIFE WOULD HAVE
HER CONTRACTIONS. AND SHORTLY AN
HOUR LATER, I WOULD BE AT THE
HOSPITAL AGAIN DURING COVID
PANDEMIC, WHILE MY DAUGHTER
DECIDED TO ARRIVE JUST A LITTLE
AHEAD OF SCHEDULE. WE MAKE THE
BEST MOVIES IN CALIFORNIA, AND
CONSEQUENTLY, THE WORLD, BECAUSE
EVERY ONE OF MY FELLOW UNION
BROTHERS AND SISTERS PUT IT ALL
OUT THERE, LAID BARE ON THE
SILVER SCREEN, BUT NEVER BEFORE
IN HUMAN HISTORY UNTIL THE LAST
SEVERAL YEARS, HAS THAT VERY
TECHNOLOGY I'M USING IS NOW
STEALING MY VERY OWN WORK, MY
HEART AND MY SOUL BY SCRAPING
WHAT I'VE DONE AND REGURGITATING
IT BACK AS CHEAP, POOR IMITATION
OF WHAT TECH COMPANIES NOW SELL
AS A PRODUCT CALLED AI ART
OFFICIAL INTELLIGENCE. NEVER
MIND THE FACT THAT THESE
COMPANIES HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO
KNOWLEDGE ON HOW THE CREATIVE
PROCESS IN MY FIELD ACTUALLY
WORKS. THESE COMPANIES ARE
OPENLY ROBBING HARDWORKING,
TAXPAYING CALIFORNIANS OF THEIR
LIVELIHOOD AND RELABELING IT AS
A POOR EXCUSE FOR INNOVATION.
THIS IS THE GREATEST HEIST IN
THE HISTORY OF HUMAN INTELLECT,
AND WE ARE WELCOMING IT BY
WASTING IT WITH BILLIONS OF
DOLLARS IN FUNDING. TO ADD
FURTHER INSULT TO INJURY, WE ARE
BEING TOLD THAT THIS IS
INEVITABLE AND THAT WE NEED TO
RETOOL AND RETRAIN. BUT WE HAVE
ALREADY RETOOLED AND RETRAINED
EVERY ONE OF MY PEERS, INCLUDING
MYSELF, KNOW HOW TO USE IT. IF
YOU CAN ORDER A SANDWICH, YOU
CAN USE AI. IF YOU CAN GOOGLE
YOURSELF, YOU CAN USE AI. IF YOU
CAN STRING TOGETHER A CONSONANT
VOWEL CONSONANT WORDS. YOU KNOW,
I. AND EVEN IF THE ANSWER IS TO
TAKE A DIFFERENT CAREER PATH,
NAME A SINGLE CAREER RIGHT NOW
WHERE THERE ISN'T A LOBBYIST OR
A TECH COMPANY THAT'S ACTIVELY
TRYING TO RUIN IT WITH AI, WE
ARE ADAPTING AND WE ARE STILL
DYING. THAT THAT BEING SAID, THE
DECISION OF WHETHER OR NOT ME
AND MY FELLOW ARTISTS ARE
WORKING IS NOT WHETHER OR NOT WE
ARE, WE ARE OR WE AREN'T USING
AI, BUT INSTEAD MADE BY THE
PRODUCERS AND THE MANAGERS WHO
ARE ACTUALLY CONTROLLING THE
HIRING. THERE WAS A SURVEY
CONDUCTED BY CIVIL ECONOMICS
COMMISSIONED BY CONCEPT ART
ACADEMY, THE ANIMATION GUILD, IN
QUITE A FEW OTHER INDUSTRY
ASSOCIATIONS. AT THE END OF LAST
YEAR, OVER 300 C-SUITE LEADERS,
C-SUITE LEADERS, SENIOR
EXECUTIVES AND MID-LEVEL
MANAGERS ACROSS SIX INDUSTRIES
IN THE ENTERTAINMENT SECTOR WERE
GIVEN THE OPPORTUNITY TO PROVIDE
THEIR INPUT. 75% OF SURVEY
RESPONDENTS INDICATED THAT
GENERATIVE AI TOOLS HAD
SUPPORTED THE ELIMINATION OF
JOBS IN THEIR BUSINESS. ALREADY
ON THE LAST PROJECT I JUST
FINISHED, THEY CONSCIOUSLY
DECIDED NOT TO HIRE A COSTUME
CONCEPT ARTIST, NOT HIRE HER,
BUT INSTEAD INTENTIONALLY HAVE
THE MAIN ACTRESS'S COSTUME
DESIGNED BY AI. ON ANOTHER
PREVIOUS SHOW, MY TIME ON THE
PROJECT ENDED SOONER THAN I
WOULD HAVE LIKED. WHEN THE
MANAGER DECIDED TO HAVE AN ENTRY
LEVEL ASSISTANT, AN ENTRY LEVEL
ASSISTANT WHO WAS WORKING AT A
FRACTION OF MY SALARY. USE AI.
MIND YOU, THIS IS A SALARY THAT
HAS ALLOWED ME TO BE A HOMEOWNER
IN THE CITY OF LOS ANGELES. NOW
EVEN THOUGH I KNOW HOW TO USE AI
AND CAN IN FACT BUILD MY OWN
MODEL NEEDED, THE DECISION WAS
PURELY DONE TO REPLACE MY JOB
WITH A LOW SKILLED AND LOW PAID
WORKER FOR THE IDEA THAT I WOULD
CREATE NEW JOBS IS A COMPLETE
LIE AND AN UTTER MYTH. IN THE
SAME STUDY LAST YEAR BY CIVIL
ECONOMICS, CALIFORNIA FACES A
POTENTIAL ELIMINATION OF NEARLY
62,000 JOBS BY 2026.
UNFORTUNATELY WE DON'T NEED
PROJECTIONS WHEN WE HAVE ACTUAL
FACTS. RECENTLY, AS REPORTED BY
MY UNION, LOCAL 800 ART
DIRECTORS GUILD UNION ALONE,
THEY ARE FACING A 75% JOB LOSS
THIS YEAR. OF THEIR APPROXIMATE
3000 MEMBERS. NEVER MIND, THE
ACTUAL STRIKES HAVE BEEN OVER
FOR SIX MONTHS. IT'S SO BAD THEY
HAVE ACTUALLY CANCELED THEIR
HIGHLY SOUGHT AFTER
APPRENTICESHIP PROGRAM THIS YEAR
THAT WOULD HELP THEM CREATE THE
NEXT GENERATION OF FILM
CRAFTSPEOPLE. CITING AND I'M
PARAPHRASING HERE, THAT THEY CAN
NO LONGER IN GOOD CONSCIENCE,
PROVIDE A TRAINING FOR A JOB
THAT MAY CEASE TO EXIST. AND
THAT IS ONLY BECAUSE THOSE
PEOPLE ARE LUCKY ENOUGH TO BE IN
A UNION THAT KEEPS TRACK OF ITS
EMPLOYMENT NUMBERS. THERE ARE
MANY MORE UNTOLD CALIFORNIA INS
WHO ARE NOT AS LUCKY, WHO ARE
FACING EVEN WORSE JOB PROSPECTS.
DID I MENTION THAT I'M ALSO A
LECTURER AT UCLA, UNIVERSITY OF
CALIFORNIA, LOS ANGELES, IN THE
THEATER OF FILM AND TELEVISION
PROGRAM? I LITERALLY LAST YEAR
HAD STUDENTS TELL ME THEY ARE
QUITTING THE DEPARTMENT BECAUSE
THEY DON'T SEE A FUTURE ANYMORE.
WE ARE ACTIVELY LOSING THE NEXT
GENERATION OF HARD WORKING
CALIFORNIANS TO MACHINES.
MACHINES. IF IT WASN'T CLEAR
ENOUGH BY NOW THAT DON'T PAY
TAXES, I HOPE THAT SOME OF YOU
WHO HAVE COLLEGE AGED CHILDREN
HAVE BETTER LUCK THAN SOME OF MY
FORMER STUDENTS ABOUT TO REPLACE
CREATIVITY AND DREAMS WAS NEVER
A TOOL ANY OF US HAD EVER ASKED
FOR. IT WAS NEVER A PROBLEM ANY
OF US HAD EVER ASKED TO BE
SOLVED. IF THIS IS INNOVATION,
AND BY ADAPTING, THEY MEAN GET
USED TO LIVING IN A CAR WITHOUT
A HOME, THEN THIS IS NOT
INNOVATION AT ALL, BUT A
DECIMATION OF HUMANITY ITSELF
AND THE COMPLETE ANNIHILATION OF
THE GREAT AMERICAN DREAM. I
WOULD LIKE TO THANK ALL THE
MEMBERS OF THE CALIFORNIA STATE
ASSEMBLY HERE TODAY. I HOPE YOU
ALL CAN ACT QUICKLY AND SWIFTLY
TO STEM THIS DISASTER. UNLESS
EVERYONE'S READY TO SWALLOW THE
PILL THAT IS UNIVERSAL BASIC
INCOME, WHICH, BY THE WAY, WE
WILL HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO TAX
STRUCTURE FOR IN THIS SCENARIO,
A GOVERNMENT THAT CAN NO LONGER
SUPPORT ITS PEOPLE DUE TO A
DECIMATED POPULATION OF WORKING
CITIZENS, OR FIGURE OUT A WAY TO
INCENTIVIZE UTILIZING
CALIFORNIA'S MOST VALUABLE
RESOURCE, ITS WORKING PEOPLE, WE
ARE MOST CERTAINLY DOOMED. THANK
YOU. WOW. THANK YOU VERY MUCH
AND APPRECIATE YOU ELEVATING
HEART AND SOUL, IN THE
CONVERSATION IN IN YOUR
NARRATIVE, WE HAVE SOME OF MY
COLLEAGUES WHO HAVE JUST JOINED.
I'M GOING TO ASK THEM TO
INTRODUCE THEMSELVES BECAUSE I
THINK IT'S IMPORTANT THAT
EVERYONE UNDERSTAND WHO'S ON THE
COMMITTEE, AND SO WE'RE GOING TO
START OFF WITH ASSEMBLYWOMAN
TINA MCKENNA, JOE PATTERSON, AND
ALSO JACKIE IRWIN AND ALSO
LAURIE WILSON, IN THAT ORDER, IF
YOU CAN PLEASE INTRODUCE
YOURSELF AND THEN WE'LL GO TO
OUR CHAIRWOMAN, REBECCA
BAUER-KAHAN FOR QUESTIONS.
ASSEMBLY MEMBER TINA MCKENNA, I
REPRESENT AD 61. I'M, JOE
PATTERSON. I REPRESENT PLACER
AND EL DORADO COUNTIES, AND, NOT
NEARLY AS TALENTED AS EITHER OF
YOU, SO THANK YOU. JACKIE IRWIN,
I REPRESENT, VENTURA COUNTY AND
WEST LOS ANGELES COUNTY, AND I'M
ON THE PRIVACY COMMITTEE. LORI
WILSON I REPRESENT THE 11TH
DISTRICT, WHICH IS ALL OF SOLANO
COUNTY, A LITTLE BIT OF CONTRA
COSTA COUNTY AND A LITTLE BIT OF
SACRAMENTO COUNTY. I ALSO HAVE,
SIT HERE FOR THIS INFORMATIONAL
HEARING AS SERVING ON THE
PRIVACY AND CONSUMER PROTECTIONS
COMMITTEE. THANK YOU, THANK YOU
BOTH FOR BEING HERE. I THINK
THAT IT'S BEEN MY EXPERIENCE IN
THESE AI CONVERSATIONS THAT THEY
ARE SO MUCH MORE POWERFUL WHEN
WE PUT A HUMAN FACE TO THE FOLKS
THAT ARE MOST AFFECTED AND I
THINK BOTH OF YOU ARE DOING THAT
SO POWERFULLY TODAY, I CAN SAY
THAT I'M SHOCKED BY THAT NUMBER
OF 75% JOB LOSS AMONGST YOUR
UNION MEMBERS. THAT IS SHOCKING
AT A TIME WHEN I KNOW WE'RE
TRYING TO BUILD UP
APPRENTICESHIP PROGRAMS THAT WE
WOULD STOP AN APPRENTICESHIP
PROGRAM. I ALSO WANT TO SAY,
HAVING SEEN YOUR WORK THROUGH
THE YEARS, I DIDN'T KNOW IT WAS
YOU BECAUSE YOU'RE THE SECRET
BEHIND THE SCREEN I DON'T
ACTUALLY BELIEVE IN. I CAN TOOL
CAN DO WHAT YOU DO, RIGHT? IT
CAN RECREATE YOUR OWN WORK AND
LOOK LIKE IT. BUT WHAT YOU DO IN
EVERY PIECE OF ART YOU CREATE IS
SOMETHING NEW, RIGHT? AND THAT'S
WHAT I THINK WE OPEN TALKING
ABOUT. SO THAT IS PART OF WHAT
MAKES ME SO SAD ABOUT THIS IS
BOTH THE LIVELIHOOD, THE PEOPLE
AFFECTED AND WHAT OUR FUTURE
LOOKS LIKE. SO I JUST WANT TO
THANK YOU BOTH FOR BEING HERE. A
COUPLE OF QUESTIONS FOR BOTH OF
YOU, BUT WE'LL START WITH YOU,
DREW, YOU MENTIONED AND YOU SORT
OF MENTIONED IT VERY BRIEFLY,
BUT IT'S SOMETHING THAT I'VE
HEARD A COUPLE TIMES NOW FROM
FOLKS WHO WORK IN SIMILAR SPACES
AS YOU. IS THAT WHEN YOU WERE
CREATING THESE TYPE OF ANIMATED
ARTWORK, YOU'RE DOING SO ON
TECHNOLOGICAL TOOLS. AND ONE OF
THE THINGS I KEEP HEARING IS
THAT THROUGH THE TERMS OF
SERVICE OF THOSE TOOLS, IT IS
ACTUALLY TAKING YOUR
INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY AND
FEEDING IT INTO, I DATASETS
DIRECTLY FROM WHATEVER TOOL
YOU'RE USING TO CREATE YOUR ART
IS THAT I THINK YOU ALLUDED TO
THAT BRIEFLY IN YOUR COMMENTS,
BUT I WANTED TO GO BACK TO IT,
THAT IS ABSOLUTELY TRUE. SO
UNFORTUNATELY, IN ORDER FOR ME
TO STAY AHEAD OF HOW IT WORKS IS
THAT WE ACTUALLY RELY ON UPON A
LOT OF CLOUD SERVICES, AND
THEY'RE VERY CLOUD COMPANIES WHO
ARE, WERE STORING DATA ON
THEY'RE ACTUALLY MINING OUR DATA
AND USING THAT FOR AI TRAINING,
BUT THAT'S SORT OF THE CONDITION
THAT YOU'RE FORCED TO HAVE TO
AGREE WITH IN ORDER TO USE IT.
NOW, I COULD DECIDE NOT TO USE
IT, BUT THEN I'M ALSO NOT GOING
TO BE COMPETITIVE ENOUGH TO KEEP
UP WITH ALL MY FELLOW WORKERS
AND ALL THE DEMANDS OF THE
PRODUCERS, ASK FOR. RIGHT? AND I
THINK, SO I THINK IT'S SOMETHING
THAT WE AS POLICY MAKERS REALLY
NEED TO PAY ATTENTION TO,
BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW, TO YOUR
POINT, THAT YOU COULD DO THE
WORK YOU DO TODAY, MAYBE 100
YEARS AGO, OBVIOUSLY YOU WEREN'T
ON THE CLOUD, MAYBE EVEN 50
YEARS AGO, BUT TODAY IT'S FAIRLY
IMPOSSIBLE TO DO THE WORK TO
TRANSMIT THE WORK. RIGHT. I
IMAGINE YOU TRANSMIT IT IN WAYS
THAT INTERFACE WITH THE CLOUD,
FOR EXAMPLE, THAT WOULD PROTECT
YOU FROM THAT. AND IT SEEMS
INSANE TO ME THAT JUST BY BEING
A CONSUMER OF THESE
TECHNOLOGICAL TECHNOLOGIES THAT
YOUR WORK IS BEING RIPPED OFF.
SO I DO THINK THAT'S AN
IMPORTANT THING TO HIGHLIGHT. I
ALSO WANT TO FURTHER ADD THAT A
LOT OF THESE SOFTWARE COMPANIES
ARE CONSTANTLY CHANGING THEIR
TERMS OF SERVICE. SO YOU MIGHT
HAVE AGREED TO SOMETHING EARLY
ON, BUT THEY WILL JUST GO AHEAD
AND CHANGE IT WITHOUT TELLING
YOU. AND THEY MAKE IT SEEM LIKE
IT'S OUR FAULT THAT THEY CHANGED
IT WITHOUT TELLING YOU. AND
THAT'S A HUGE PROBLEM IN MY
INDUSTRY. YEAH, AND I'M AN
ATTORNEY, AND I HAVE TO CONFESS
THAT I SIGNED THOSE LITTLE CHECK
BOXES WITHOUT READING THEM EVERY
DAY, BECAUSE WHO HAS TIME TO
READ EVERY TERMS OF SERVICE THAT
COMES OUR WAY? SO ABSOLUTELY NOT
YOUR FAULT THAT, I JUST FEEL
LIKE IT'S SUCH A VIOLATION OF
THE CONTRACTUAL RELATIONSHIP YOU
HAVE WITH THE TECHNOLOGIES YOU
USE FOR YOUR WORK. SO I JUST
WANTED TO HIGHLIGHT THAT POINT
YOU MADE. AND THEN MR. GEORGE, I
THINK YOU MADE A REALLY GOOD
POINT, AND I WANT TO THANK YOU
AND THE OTHER LEADERS AT
SAG-AFTRA FOR REALLY
HIGHLIGHTING THE UP AND COMING
ARTISTS. RIGHT? THE FOLKS WHO
ARE NOT YET THE STAR OF THE
SHOW, BUT IN THE BACKGROUND OR,
YOU KNOW, THE HIGHLY SKILLED
FOLKS THAT DO SOME OF THE WORK
THAT YOU'RE AFRAID IS GOING TO
BE REPLACED. I THINK YOU DID A
GOOD JOB HIGHLIGHTING WHERE YOU
THINK THE GREATEST RISK IS IN
THE SHORT TERM, ALTHOUGH I THINK
THE LONG TERM RISK MAY BE MORE
BROAD THAN YOU HIGHLIGHTED, AND
I THINK I WANTED TO JUST GO INTO
THAT A LITTLE BIT DEEPER
BECAUSE, BECAUSE I IMAGINE EVERY
SUCCESSFUL ARTISTS LIKE YOURSELF
STARTED AS ONE OF THOSE FOLKS IN
THE BACKGROUND OR IN A SMALLER
ROLE. AND SO WHAT DOES THAT MEAN
FOR THE FUTURE OF THE FOLKS WHO
ARE EVEN PROTECTED FROM THE AI
RISK? WELL, YOU HIT, YOU HIT IT
THE NAIL ON THE HEAD. I MEAN, I
REFERENCED THOSE POINTS THAT ARE
IN IMMEDIATE RISK JUST BECAUSE
YOU ASKED THE QUESTION OF WHERE
ARE WE IN THE NEXT FIVE MONTHS,
THOSE ARE THE AREAS THAT WITHIN
THE NEXT FIVE MONTHS, WHEN I
TALK ABOUT MUSIC, ARTISTS, VOICE
OVER ARTISTS, STUNT PERFORMERS
AND BACKGROUND PERFORMERS, THOSE
ARE THE AREAS THAT, WITH THE
TECHNOLOGY AS IT EXISTS NOW, YOU
CAN ELIMINATE TREMENDOUS AMOUNTS
OF JOBS, BECAUSE YOU DON'T NEED
TO SEE THE BACKGROUND PERSON
CLEARLY, LITERALLY. THE POINT
IS, THEY'RE NOT MEANT TO BE THE
FOCUS OF THE SCENE, SO THE
TECHNOLOGY THAT WE HAVE NOW,
THOSE ARE THE ONES THAT ARE AT
RISK. BUT TO YOUR POINT, YES,
PICK YOUR OSCAR WINNER, PICK
YOUR SAG AWARD WINNER. THEY
PROBABLY STARTED OFF DOING
BACKGROUND WORK OR SOMETHING
LIKE THAT. HAD A HAD A LINE HERE
OR A LINE THERE. I REMEMBER WHEN
I FIRST SAW THE I'M TRYING TO
REMEMBER THE MOVIE, BUT HARRISON
FORD PLAYING THE BELLHOP IN A
WELL-KNOWN MOVIE THAT NOBODY
REMEMBERS, BUT HE COMES IN, HE
HAS ONE LINE AND HE'S OUT THE
DOOR, MY FIRST ROLE, I GOT INTO
THE UNION PLAYING COLLEGE KID,
IN A MOVIE THAT, DENZEL
WASHINGTON STARRED IN THE POINT
IS, IF I HAD SIGNED AWAY MY
IMAGE AND LIKENESS ALLOWED THEM
TO SCAN ME. AND SCANNING IS
HAPPENING IN SO MANY PROJECTS
NOW, EVEN WHEN YOU DON'T THINK
IT'S NECESSARILY WE'RE NOT. THIS
ISN'T A BIG BUDGET, YOU KNOW,
SPECIAL EFFECTS MOVIE PEOPLE ARE
STILL GETTING SCANNED, BUT IF I
SIGN AWAY, MY IMAGE AND LIKENESS
AT THAT POINT IN MY CAREER, THEN
Ã IF I HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO
ACTUALLY BECOME A NAME, A
RECOGNIZABLE FACE AND NAME ACTOR
, THIS OTHER COMPANY OWNS IT AND
THEY CAN PUT ME INTO THEIR
MOVIE, LITERALLY, EVEN WITH THE
TECHNOLOGY THAT WE'VE HAD IN THE
PAST, I'VE SEEN, PEOPLE WHO WERE
EDITED OUT OF FILMS, BUT BECAUSE
THEY WERE RECOGNIZABLE FACE PUT
ONTO THE BOX FOR THE DVD,
BECAUSE THEY WILL NOW BRING
EYEBALLS TO THIS PROJECT.
THEY'RE NOT IN THE MOVIE, BUT WE
BUT WE SHOT THEM. WE OAN THEIR
FACE AND LIKENESS FOR PURPOSES
OF THIS MOVIE, AND IT WILL BE
BENEFICIAL TO US. IT WILL PUT
THEM ON THE BOX. THAT'S WITH OLD
SCHOOL ANALOG TECHNOLOGY. NOW WE
CAN JUST GO NUTS AND SAY, WELL,
WE OWN THEM. SO NOW THIS
ROMANTIC COMEDY WILL STAR BRAD
PITT BECAUSE WE GOT HIM WHEN HE
WAS YOUNG. WE'LL STAR, YOU KNOW,
FLORENCE PUGH, PICK, PICK YOUR
STAR. YOU CAN PUT THEM IN.
THAT'S THE FEAR THAT WE HAVE FOR
HOW IT GETS TO LONGEVITY PIECE
OR NOW GOING FORWARD, YOU'LL
NEVER HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO
ACTUALLY GET YOUR CAREER TO THAT
LEVEL, BECAUSE AS SOON AS YOU
START TO BECOME OF ANY KIND OF
VALUE, THEY'LL INSERT YOU INTO A
MOVIE. AND, YOU KNOW, LOOK, WE
LIVE IN A CAPITALIST SOCIETY. AS
DOCTOR ZHAO POINTED OUT EARLIER,
SUPPLY AND DEMAND IS A REAL
THING. SCARCITY INCREASES VALUE.
YOU WANT ME, YOU GOT TO COME PAY
ME BECAUSE I'VE MADE IT, MANAGED
TO MAKE IT VALUABLE. IF ANYBODY
WHO I WORKED WITH IN THE PAST
TEN YEARS CAN NOW INSERT ME INTO
THEIR PRODUCT, I'M NOT A SCARCE
COMMODITY, SO I CAN'T RAISE MY
QUOTE ANYMORE BECAUSE THEY
ALREADY HAVE IT. I WISH THAT WE
HAD A WITNESS WHO WAS SPEAKING
AGAINST IT. THE BILL THAT I'M
WORKING WITH SAG-AFTRA ON TO
PROTECT DECEASED ARTISTS. AND
THEY SAID THIS SHOULDN'T BE A
PROPERTY, RIGHT? WE SHOULDN'T BE
MONETIZING IT. AND THE
SAG-AFTRA, WITNESS THAT WAS
THERE SAID, NO, THIS IS MY
RIGHT. WHY I CAN'T I SHOULD BE
ABLE TO MONETIZE IT. AND I THINK
IT'S SO IMPORTANT THAT WE TALK
ABOUT LEGACY AND THE VALUES THAT
ARE NOT MONETIZED. BUT IT'S ALSO
YOUR WORK. AND I THINK IT'S
IMPORTANT THAT WE ACKNOWLEDGE
THAT THAT'S IT'S THE TRUTH. I
MEAN, MONETIZING IT IS THE
EASIEST WAY TO KEEP TRACK OF THE
NUMBERS. I MEAN, THE EASY WAYS
TO KEEP TRACK OF IT. BUT THE
REALITY IS, MAYBE I DON'T WANT
TO BE IN THAT KIND OF PICTURE.
LITERALLY. I WOULDN'T HAVE DONE
IT IF I WAS ALIVE. I CERTAINLY
DON'T WANT TO DO IT NOW THAT I'M
DEAD, AND AGAIN, TALKING ABOUT
SCARCITY IMPROVING YOUR
IMPROVING YOUR VALUE, I CAN MAKE
AN ARGUMENT TO YOU THAT WE MIGHT
NOT KNOW WHO JAMES DEAN IS
TODAY. IF HE HADN'T DIED SO
YOUNG, AT THE VERY HEIGHT OF HIS
CAREER, GOING UP. SO, BUT
MONETIZE IT IS JUST A WAY TO
KEEP TRACK OF THE FACT THAT,
POWERFUL PERFORMANCES MEAN
SOMETHING, THE TALENT MEANS
SOMETHING, WHAT I CHOOSE TO DO
MEANS SOMETHING. WHAT I CHOOSE
NOT TO DO. SAYS SOMETHING AS
WELL. AND SO IF YOU CAN PUT ME
INTO. I MEAN, I KNOW ACTORS,
THERE ARE ACTORS WHO WILL NEVER
DO A NUDE SCENE, BUT WITH AI,
YOU COULD MAKE THAT HAPPEN,
WHETHER THEY LIKE IT OR NOT,
ESPECIALLY IF THEY'RE
POSTHUMOUS. I'M SURE THERE ARE A
LOT OF PEOPLE WHO, YOU KNOW,
MARILYN MONROE IS STILL SEEN AS
A SEX SYMBOL, ETC, ETC. YOU CAN
SO IT IT MIGHT BE MATERIAL I
FIND OBJECTIONABLE. YOU MIGHT
PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH THAT I
FIND OBJECTIONABLE, WHEN I
CHOOSE TO PLAY A VILLAINOUS
CHARACTER, IT'S BECAUSE, YOU
KNOW, I ALWAYS SAY, IF YOU'RE
GOING TO PLAY THE IF YOU'RE
GOING TO TELL THE STORY OF THE
GARDEN OF GOOD AND EVIL,
SOMEBODY'S GOT TO PLAY THE
DEVIL. SO I MIGHT SUBSCRIBE TO
THE OVERALL MESSAGE OF THE
PROJECT. SO I'M FINE TO PLAY
THIS VILLAINOUS, TREACHEROUS
CHARACTER WHO I PERSONALLY FIND
OBJECTIONABLE. BUT IF THE
OVERALL PROJECT IS SOMETHING
THAT I CAN'T STAND, THAT'S
COMPLETELY OBJECTIONABLE TO ME.
AND THEN YOU PUT ME IN THAT SAME
KIND OF ROLE. I'M NOT GOING TO
SIGN ON TO THAT BECAUSE I NEED
TO KNOW THAT. I NEED TO KNOW
THAT THE MESSAGE OF THE MOVIE IS
SOMETHING THAT I BELIEVE IN AND
STAND BEHIND. AND I CAN'T LOSE
THAT JUST BECAUSE I PASSED AWAY,
BECAUSE OTHERWISE THAT DAMAGES
SOMEBODY'S LEGACY. IT'S ALL WE
FIGHT FOR. THE ONLY THING WE
FIGHT FOR IN OUR LIVES IS TO
CREATE CHILDREN, TO CREATE
BUSINESSES, TO CREATE WORKS OF
ART THAT LIVE BEYOND US. BECAUSE
THE ONE GUARANTEE IS WHEN YOU'RE
BORN, YOU'RE GOING TO DIE. SO
WHAT DID YOU LEAVE BEHIND, WELL,
IF WHAT I LEAVE BEHIND ISN'T THE
ONLY THING I LEAVE BEHIND. IF
PEOPLE CAN KEEP ADDING ON TO IT
AND ADD ON THINGS THAT I HATE,
THAT ARE EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE OF
WHAT I STOOD FOR WHEN I WAS
ALIVE. YOU'VE YOU'VE DESTROYED
PART OF THE MEANING OF WHAT MY
LIFE MEANT. THANK YOU SO MUCH
FOR THAT. I THINK IT'S THIS IS
SUCH AN IMPORTANT CONVERSATION,
AND I THINK TEN YEARS AGO WE
NEVER COULD HAVE IMAGINED A
DIGITAL REPLICA BEING USED IN A
WORK OF ART THAT COULD LITERALLY
CONFUSE THE VIEWER TO BELIEVE
YOU HAVE CREATED NEW ART OR, YOU
KNOW, YOU HAVE CREATED SOMETHING
THAT YOU DIDN'T CREATE AND, THE
ONE THING THAT WE DO, AS I
MENTIONED, INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY
LAW IS VERY MUCH IN THE REALM OF
THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. BUT
CONTRACT LAW IS STATE LAW. AND
SO I DO THINK IT'S REALLY
IMPORTANT THAT WE HAVE THESE
IMPORTANT CONVERSATIONS ABOUT
THE TERMS OF SERVICE, ABOUT THE
CONTRACTS THAT OUR ARTISTS SIGN,
MAKING SURE THERE'S A MEETING OF
THE MINDS, MAKING SURE THAT WE
ARE PROTECTING PEOPLE BEYOND THE
MOMENT THAT THEY'RE SIGNING IN,
WHEN THEY DON'T HAVE THE SAME
BARGAINING POWER, AND THINGS
LIKE THAT. SO I APPRECIATE BOTH
OF YOU BEING HERE, AND I'LL TURN
IT BACK OVER TO THE CHAIR. THANK
YOU. ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS FROM
THE COMMITTEE MEMBERS. MISS
MCKENNA, I KNOW. EXCUSE ME, I
KNOW I WAS LATE, AND YOU GUYS
MIGHT HAVE ASKED ANSWERED THIS
QUESTION ALREADY. DOES THE
ACTORS HAVE TO SIGN THESE
CONTRACTS SO THAT THEY CAN USE
THEIR IMAGE, ESPECIALLY WHEN
THEY'RE COMING IN LIKE AN EXTRA,
DO THEY HAVE TO, LIKE, ARE THEY
REQUIRING YOU TO DO THIS NOW? DO
YOU HAVE TO NÓ DO YOU WANT THE
JOB? YOU KNOW THAT. AND THAT'S
THE CONVERSATION WE HAVE WITH A
LOT OF OUR MEMBERS. I MEAN, AT
THE END OF THE DAY, VIRTUALLY
ANYTHING IS NEGOTIABLE, WHEN YOU
HAVE THE POWER TO NEGOTIATE, IF
I'M A BACKGROUND ACTOR, NO, I
HAVE NO POWER WHATSOEVER. AND I.
AND IT'S EITHER THIS IS THE DEAL
OR TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT, PERIOD.
AND SO YOU DON'T HAVE THAT, YOU
DON'T HAVE THE AUTHORITY. SO WE
DO OUR BEST TO FIGHT FOR IT. AS
SAG-AFTRA, THE UNION THAT
PROTECTS PERFORMERS. BUT THAT
DOESN'T NECESSARILY SPEAK TO THE
NONUNION WORK THAT'S OUT THERE.
IT DOESN'T NECESSARILY SPEAK TO,
YOU KNOW, WE NEED PROTECTIONS
FOR ALL THAT CAME BEFORE THIS
CONTRACT, SO THAT'S THE
SITUATION IS. YEAH, IT'S A IT'S
I MEAN, IS IT A, YOU KNOW, A
REQUIREMENT OF EMPLOYMENT, MOST,
MOST ACTORS WOULD SAY, DOES IT
STAND TO THE LEGAL DEFINITION?
MAYBE NOT. BUT MY ONLY CHOICE IS
TO TAKE TAKE THE JOB OR NOT TAKE
THE JOB, WE'VE OUR HOPE WAS TO
GET THINGS. OUR HOPE IN THIS
CONTRACT AND HOPE GOING FORWARD
IS TO GET IT TO WHERE THERE'S A
NEGOTIATION ABOUT. I WILL ALLOW
IT TO BE USED FOR THESE
PURPOSES, AND I WILL NOT ALLOW
IT TO BE USED FOR THOSE
PURPOSES. AND YOU'VE GOT TO BE
CLEAR WITH ME ABOUT WHAT THOSE
ARE. AND IF YOU BREACH THAT NOW,
WE'RE INTO, YOU KNOW, I CAN COME
BACK TO YOU AS AN EMPLOYEE
BECAUSE YOU SAID IT WOULD ONLY
BE USED FOR X, Y, Z, AND YOU USE
IT FOR A OR B. MISS WILSON AND,
I TOO ARRIVED LATE, SO MY
APOLOGIES, AND SO IF YOU COVERED
THIS IN A CONVERSATION, I LOOK
TO THE WITNESSES AS WELL AS THE
CHAIRS, TO LET ME KNOW IN TERMS
OF THERE'S HAVE TWO ASPECTS, TWO
QUESTIONS. ONE IS AS IT RELATES
TO COPYRIGHT, RIGHT, THE
CONVERSATION I THINK IT'S NUMBER
FIVE OF THE YOUR FACE, YOUR
VOICE, FACE IMAGE AND IDENTITY
SHEET WHERE IT TALKS ABOUT
COPYRIGHT. IT SHOULD ONLY BE
EXIST FOR, SOMETHING THAT'S
CREATED WITH HUMAN INVOLVEMENT.
RIGHT, AND AS I UNDERSTAND IT, A
LOT OF THE AI TECHNOLOGY AND
TOOLS DOES REQUIRE SOME LEVEL OF
HUMAN EDITING. SO DOES THAT
QUALIFY, AND THEN. WELL, I'LL
ASK THAT FIRST, AND THEN I'LL
ASK MY SECOND QUESTION, AS FAR
AS I'M CONCERNED, GENERATIVE AI
IS A POISON PILL. I NONE OF THAT
IS COPYRIGHTABLE. I MEAN, IN
FACT, THE US PATENT OFFICE HAS
DECIDED THAT YOU CAN'T COPYRIGHT
ANY OF AI WORK, BUT THAT DOESN'T
STOP PEOPLE FROM TRYING TO MAKE
MONEY OFF OF IT. AND THAT'S THE
UNFORTUNATELY, THE WORLD WE'RE
LIVING IN RIGHT NOW IN FACT,
THERE'S NUMEROUS LAWSUITS RIGHT
NOW GOING EXACTLY ABOUT THAT
SPECIFIC ISSUE THAT EVEN IN
GENERATIVE, EVEN IF IT'S EDITED
LATER, THAT SHOULD NOT BE
COPYRIGHTED. IF THAT TOOL IS
THAT WHAT YOU'RE I KNOW THAT'S
THE POSITION OF YOU WERE SAYING
THAT IS BEING LITIGATED. RIGHT
NOW. BUT YEAH, THERE IF IT WAS
EASY, EVERYONE WOULD BE DOING IT
AND THIS WOULD BE A SETTLED
THING. UNFORTUNATELY IT ISN'T.
SO THAT LEVEL EDITING, EDITING
IS A VERY, EXTREMELY BROAD TERM
THAT CAN MEAN ANY NUMBER OF
THINGS I COULD TAKE A
HIGHLIGHTER TO SOMETHING AND I
JUST EDITED SOMETHING. I COULD
CLEAN SOMETHING UP AND I'LL BE
EDITING. I COULD COMPLETELY
CHANGE SOMETHING COMPLETELY AND
IT WOULD BE EDITING. SO THAT'S
WHY IT'S NOT IT'S NOT AS EASY AS
SIMPLY SAYING WHAT, YOU KNOW,
JUST EDITING DOES THAT STILL
COUNT? OKAY. SO ANYTHING WITH
GENERATIVE AI AND IF IT WAS
GENERATED WITH DATA, NO MATTER
HOW MUCH MANIPULATION BY A HUMAN
LATER, IT SHOULDN'T. IT'S THE
POSITION IS IT SHOULD NOT BE
COPYRIGHTED. FOR THAT REASON.
IT'S A VERY SLIPPERY SLOPE. I
MEAN, OKAY, HOLLYWOOD DOES NOT
HAVE A GREAT TRACK RECORD WITH
STUFF LIKE THIS. FOR EXAMPLE,
THERE'S A FAMOUS MOVIE YEARS AGO
CALLED, 12 MONKEYS, WHERE THEY
VERY MUCH SO COPIED A WORK OF
LEBBEUS WOODS, WHO'S A FAMOUS
ARCHITECT AND ARTIST, AND
LEBBEUS WOODS WAS ABLE TO PROVE
THAT THEY HAD JUST COPIED HIM,
AND HE LOST TO IT A LOT OF CHEN
AI IS ACTUALLY OPENING UP A LOT
OF COMPANIES EXACTLY TO THAT
PROBLEM. BUT ONCE AGAIN, WHEN
THERE'S SO MUCH MONEY INVOLVED,
PEOPLE SORT OF BREAK THE RULES
AND TRY TO ASK FOR FORGIVENESS
LATER. BUT USUALLY,
UNFORTUNATELY, NOW THAT
FORGIVENESS INVOLVES MILLIONS
AND MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF
DOLLARS, RIGHT. WHICH TRANSITION
TO MY LAST QUESTION. MY FINAL
QUESTION IS, IN REGARD TO, AS I
UNDERSTAND IT, MACHINE LEARNING
CAN'T UNLEARN. SO ONCE IT'S IN
THERE, IT'S NOT LIKE YOU CAN
TAKE IT OUT. RIGHT? IT'S ALMOST
LIKE IN A JURY TRIAL WHERE YOU
TELL THE JURORS TO DISREGARD A
STATEMENT. RIGHT. IT'S ALREADY
THERE. THEY THEY CAN NO LONGER
TECHNICALLY USE IT IN DECISION
MAKING. BUT MACHINES LEARN AND
THEY CAN'T UNLEARN IT. AND SO IN
THIS CONVERSATION OF HOW DO WE
THEN, PROVIDE NECESSARY
PROTECTIONS TO, TO IN ESSENCE,
BE LIKE A JUDGE TO A JURY WHERE,
YOU KNOW, DISREGARD THAT
STATEMENT. HOW DO WE THEN, AS
LEGISLATORS WORK TO UNLEARN,
LEARN, YOU KNOW, WHAT THE
MACHINE HAS LEARNED? IF YOU GET
THE QUESTION THAT I'M ASKING, I
DO GET THE QUESTION. I'LL
UNFORTUNATELY, I'LL HAVE TO
DEFER TO, MISS DOCTOR BENGIO FOR
THAT. HE IS MORE OF AN EXPERT ON
THAT, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE
ANSWER IS AND HOW YOU COULD PUT
THE HORSE BACK IN THE BARN OR,
THE GENIE BACK IN THE BOTTLE,
BUT I WILL SAY I AM COMING BACK
AT IT FROM A CALIFORNIA WORKER.
AND I DO THINK ONE OF THE BEST
THINGS AS WHAT YOU GUYS DO IN
HAVING YOUR POWER IS TO PERHAPS
COME UP WITH TAX CREDITS THAT
INCENTIVIZE, NOT USING CHEN. I
IN THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA, AND
THERE'S ALREADY A PRECEDENCE FOR
SOMETHING LIKE THIS, THERE'S A
BILL WORKING THROUGH, NEW YORK
RIGHT NOW THAT'S DOING EXACTLY
THAT, WHERE YOU MUST HIRE, NOT
USE CHEN I TO HIRE PEOPLE, YOU
KNOW, AND HAVE AND HAVE THE ONE
OF THE CONDITIONS OF, THE TO
QUALIFY THE TAX CREDITS TO BE
THAT, AND THEN THERE'S ALSO,
THERE'S A FAMOUS ECONOMIST,
DARREN ACEMOGLU. I NEED TO
PRONOUNCE HIS NAME CORRECTLY.
HE'S ACTUALLY AN INSTITUTE
PROFESSOR AT MIT, AND HE'S
PERHAPS ONE OF THE WORLD'S
LEADING EXPERT ON TECHNOLOGIES,
EFFECTS ON ECONOMY, HE'S
SUGGESTING A MORE SYMMETRICAL
TAX STRUCTURE, BECAUSE RIGHT
NOW, CURRENTLY, WHAT WE HAVE
GOING ON RIGHT NOW IS THAT WE
HAVE A HEAVY BURDEN ON FIRMS
THAT HIRE LABOR, THAN WE DO ON
THOSE THAT INVEST IN ALGORITHMS
AND AUTOMATED WORK. IT SHOULD BE
MORE SYMMETRICAL WHERE WE, THE
FIRMS THAT HIRE MORE PEOPLE,
THEREFORE MORE TAXES FOR
CALIFORNIA GET REWARDED MORE
THAN THE ONES THAT USE FAR FEWER
PEOPLE. AND IF I CAN ADD ON FROM
THE PERFORMANCE PERSPECTIVE, YOU
KNOW, I MEAN, MOST OF WHAT WE'RE
DOING IS BREAKING DOWN INTO TWO
LARGE BUCKETS OF WHEN YOU'RE
USING AI. IN CONJUNCTION WITH MY
ACTUAL PERFORMANCE, I WAS HIRED
FOR THE PROJECT, AND YOU'RE
YOU'RE PUTTING MY FACE ONTO MY
STUNT DOUBLE. THAT SORT OF
THING. THAT'S ALL BENEFICIAL.
AND THAT'S ALL THE EQUIVALENT OF
A WRITER USING AI TO GET OVER
WRITER'S BLOCK AND GET THINGS
GOING. BUT THEN THERE ARE
NATURAL, CREATIVE, YOU KNOW, THE
ARTIST OF THE HUMAN BEING, COMES
INTO PLAY. AND THEN THERE'S
DIGITAL REPLICAS WHERE YOU'RE
ACTUALLY REPLACING ME IN SOME
WAY. AND WE'RE GIVING EXAMPLES
OF WHEN AND WHERE YOU CAN YOU
CAN DO THAT. AND USUALLY IT'S I
HAVE TO BE HIRED FOR THE PROJECT
IN THE FIRST PLACE. DID IT
REPLACE MY JOB, DID IT REPLACE
PERFORMANCE JOB IS THE BIGGEST
IS THE BIG FIRST QUESTION. BUT
THE OTHER THING AND THIS AGAIN
GOES BACK TO DOCTOR ZHAO. I WAS,
YOU KNOW, SHOW ME THE RECEIPTS,
WHEN WE SAW THE PROMPTS EARLIER,
THEY ESSENTIALLY DESCRIBED ABA,
AND THEN IT GAVE THEM ABA, YOU
KNOW, GIVE ME THE 70S POP BAND,
BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, OR
DESCRIBE MICHAEL JACKSON, GIVE
ME, YOU KNOW, MOTOWN, UPBEAT,
YADDA YADDA YADDA, AND THEN IF
IT CAN SAY, WELL, I GAVE YOU 70,
LIKE, YOU KNOW, YOU TALKED ABOUT
SCARLETT JOHANSSON IN THE
CURRENT, VOICEOVER, LAWSUIT THAT
SHE'S FILING, YOU CAN PUT, YOU
KNOW, A WELL-KNOWN ACTOR WHO
ALSO DOUBLES SCARLETT
JOHANSSON'S VOICE IS LAKE BELL.
WELL-KNOWN ACTOR IN HER OWN
RIGHT. DIRECTOR, AND SO, YOU
KNOW, SHE VOICES THE CHARACTER
OF BLACK WIDOW IN SEVERAL
ANIMATED THINGS. AND WHEN I
LISTEN TO IT, I DIDN'T REALIZE
HOW MUCH LAKE BELL SOUNDS LIKE
SCARLETT JOHANSSON UNTIL I FOUND
OUT IT WAS LAKE BELL DOING THAT
VOICE. SO YOU COULD SAY, GIVE ME
75. SCARLETT JOHANSSON, 25% LAKE
BELL, AND YOU HAVE SOMETHING
THAT SOUNDS EXACTLY LIKE HER,
WHICH IS WHAT THEY WANTED FOR
THAT, THAT, AI ASSISTANT, BUT IF
I SEE THOSE RECEIPTS, IF AN AI
COMPANY HAS TO TELL YOU IF AN
AI, IF GENERATIVE AI HAS TO TELL
YOU WHAT THEY PUT INTO THE
SOLUTION THEY GAVE YOU BASED ON
THE PROMPT THAT YOU GAVE, THEN
YOU CAN SAY, WELL, THEN WE NEED
TO WE NEED TO BE PAYING SCARLETT
JOHANSSON. WE NEED TO BE PAYING
LAKE BELL. IF IT'S 2% OF 50
DIFFERENT PEOPLE, THEN MAYBE YOU
CAN MAKE AN ARGUMENT TO ME THAT
THAT REALLY IS SOMETHING,
RELATIVELY NEW, BUT THAT'S
RARELY THE CASE. USUALLY IT'S
WHAT I REALLY WANT IS I WANT
SCARLETT JOHANSSON. MAKE IT
DIFFERENT ENOUGH THAT I WON'T
GET SUED, AND IF IT CAN GIVE ME
IF THEY CAN GIVE ME RECEIPTS,
THEN WE CAN JUST, YOU KNOW, WE
CAN GO CASE BY CASE, BECAUSE I
KNOW THAT YOU ACTUALLY USED ME.
OR, YOU KNOW, IF YOU SAID, GIVE
ME A WARM, SOUTHERN SOUNDING
AFRICAN AMERICAN GENTLEMAN,
MORGAN FREEMAN IS GOING TO POP
UP EVERY TIME, AND THAT'S GOING
TO BE 80% OF YOUR MODEL. AND
THEY'LL PUT A LITTLE BIT OF THIS
OR A LITTLE BIT OF THAT ON IT.
AND IT'S LIKE, WELL, YOU JUST
NEED TO PAY MORGAN FREEMAN, SO
THAT'S THE RECEIPTS PART THAT I
THINK WE WOULD LOVE TO SEE IS
WHAT PROMPT WENT IN. AND IF AND
IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, IF I HAD
TO SAY WHAT ALL WENT INTO THE
SOLUTION, IT GAVE, THAT WOULD BE
AN INCREDIBLY BENEFICIAL THING,
AND RIGHT NOW THEY DON'T WANT TO
DO THAT BECAUSE ALLEGEDLY, THEY
PUT A LOT OF THINGS IN THERE.
THEY LEGALLY DIDN'T HAVE A RIGHT
TO. AND I WILL ADD ONE
CORRECTION TO SOMETHING THAT THE
ASSEMBLY MEMBER SAID, WHICH IS
TECHNICALLY, YOU CAN THROW A
MODEL OUT, RIGHT? SO IF IT'S
TRAINED ON THINGS THAT THEY
DIDN'T HAVE A RIGHT TO. AND I
SEE THE PROFESSOR SHAKING HIS
HEAD, NODDING HIS HEAD, THAT'S
THE WAY TO GET RID OF THE INPUT.
THE PROBLEM IS REALLY THE MAIN
PROBLEM WITH THAT IS TIME. THEY
DON'T WANT TO SPEND THE TIME TO
REBUILD THE MODEL WITHOUT
WHATEVER INPUT IT IS. THE OTHER
IS ENERGY, AND WE ACTUALLY ARE
TALKING ABOUT HAVING AN ENERGY,
AN AI CONVERSATION, BECAUSE THE
ENERGY REQUIRED TO USE THESE
MODELS IS HUGELY DETRIMENTAL TO
CLIMATE AND TO CALIFORNIA'S GRID
. ARE YOU, MISS WILSON,
COMPLETE? WELL, GREAT. THANK YOU
VERY MUCH. I HAVE A COUPLE
QUESTIONS MYSELF AND A FEW
COMMENTS. ONE, I WAS STARTLED BY
THE 75% OF JOB LOSS, I WAS ALL
SO FOR MY PARTICULAR NARRATIVE
IS TRYING TO WE EMBRACE
TECHNOLOGY, BUT WE ALSO WANT TO
MAKE SURE THERE'S A BALANCE AND
THERE'S PEOPLE NOT BEING
DISENFRANCHIZED AS A RESULT. AND
SO WHAT I SAW AND HEARD, SOME OF
THE STORIES OF WHEN, DURING THE
STRIKE, ACTORS AND WRITERS, WERE
OUT FOR A LONG TIME AND THEY
REACHED AN AGREEMENT. THAT'S
GREAT, BUT DURING THAT TIME,
THEIR LIVES ARE TURNED UPSIDE
DOWN. AND I THINK FOR ME, THERE
WAS A MYTH THAT EVERY ACTOR IS A
WEALTHY ACTOR. BUT, YES, YES, WE
ARE. WE ARE WELL AWARE OF THAT
MYTH. BUT TO BUT TO HEAR SOME OF
THE NARRATIVES, AS I AND MANY OF
MY COLLEAGUES WERE ON PICKET
LINES SUPPORTING THOSE, THOSE,
THOSE PARTICULAR EFFORTS, THAT
PEOPLE LOST THEIR HOMES, PEOPLE
LOST, THEIR SAVINGS, AND THEY
HAD TO GO AND GET JOBS, WHICH
THEY WERE CERTAINLY
OVERQUALIFIED FOR. BUT
NONETHELESS, THEY WANTED TO MAKE
ENDS MEET AND TAKE CARE OF THEIR
FAMILIES, MOVING FORWARD. AND SO
THAT NARRATIVE REVEALED A LOT TO
ME AS IT RELATES TO I'M SURE, MY
COLLEAGUES, REGARDING AI. AND SO
WHAT WERE SOME OF THE BIGGEST
CONCESSIONS, THAT YOU FEEL
ACTORS AND, AND ARTISTS, HAVE
BEEN ASKED TO MAKE, OF THE USAGE
OF AI FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE. SO
AS FAR AS I KNOW RIGHT NOW,
AYATSI, THE UNION THAT I'M PART
OF IS STILL ACTUALLY IN THE
MIDDLE OF NEGOTIATIONS, I IS ONE
OF THE TOP SUBJECTS THAT MATTER
GOING THROUGH IT. SO IT'S IT
STILL HASN'T REALLY BEEN
DECIDED. BUT I WILL TELL YOU
RIGHT NOW, FROM FIRST HAND
KNOWLEDGE, THEY ARE ALREADY
USING AI SPECIFICALLY IN PLACE
NOT TO AUGMENT. I'M NOT TALKING
ABOUT USING AI AS LIKE A TOOL,
YOU KNOW, TO HELP ME WITH MY JOB
AND DO IT BETTER. THEY'RE USING
AI SPECIFICALLY SO THEY DON'T
HAVE TO HIRE PEOPLE, AND A LOT
OF THAT IS DECIDED BY THE BUDGET
THAT BUDGETS THAT THEY HAVE CUT,
IN THE CASE OF THE PREVIOUS SHOW
I JUST WORKED ON, I'M NOT
ALLOWED TO SAY IT BECAUSE MY
WHOLE ENTIRE LIFE IS PRACTICALLY
WRAPPED UP IN AN NDA, THERE WAS
A FERVENT DESIRE NOT TO USE
PEOPLE AND USE AI AS MUCH AS
POSSIBLE BY THE DIRECTOR
HIMSELF. WOW. FROM OUR FROM OUR
PERSPECTIVE, I'LL SAY THAT, IN
CONTRACT NEGOTIATIONS, WE WERE
ABLE TO GET, SOME REGULATIONS IN
THE CONTRACT, BUT SOME
CONTRACTUAL LANGUAGE SURROUNDING
YOU HAVE TO INFORM US WHAT
INFORMATION YOU PUT INTO THE
PROMPT. IF YOU PUT INTO THE
PROMPT SCARLETT JOHANSSON, LAKE
BELL, THEN YOU HAVE TO PAY
SCARLETT JOHANSSON, LAKE BELL,
BUT WE ONLY GOT IT IN TERMS OF
THE VISUAL LIKENESS. WE DIDN'T
GET IT IN TERMS OF VOCAL
PERFORMANCE, WHICH, AS I'VE
SAID, IS ONE OF THE GREATEST IS
THE IS THE LOW HANGING FRUIT IN
TERMS OF DANGEROUS AREAS IN OUR
THING. SO THAT'S SOMETHING THAT
WE DEFINITELY WE FOUGHT AS HARD
AS WE COULD, AND EVEN THAT WE
GOT IN THE 11TH HOUR AND AFTER,
YOU KNOW, WHEN, PEOPLE LOST A
LOT OF SLEEP AND, A LOT OF GRAY
HAIRS WERE MADE AT THAT POINT IN
THE TIME AND WE AND THAT WE JUST
BARELY MANAGED TO GET THAT. SO
YEAH, THAT WOULD BE ONE OF THE
AREAS THAT I WOULD SAY IS,
WASN'T A CONCESSION, BUT WAS IS
NOT PROTECTED. THE WAY IT NEEDS
TO BE. GREAT. ONE FINAL
QUESTION, WE'VE SEEN OUR
PRODUCTION LEAVE CALIFORNIA,
RIGHT, AND GO TO OTHER STATES,
EVEN OTHER COUNTRIES. WHERE IS
THE CHEAPEST COST, WHERE IT'S
CHEAPEST TO ACTUALLY FILM, HOW
DO YOU SEE? I AFFECTING THE
TRENDS IN THE FUTURE? RIGHT NOW,
THE WAY I'M SEEING IT AND FROM
MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, IT'S
PRETTY MUCH EVERYWHERE. BUT
CALIFORNIA IS CHEAPER TO SHOOT,
UNFORTUNATELY, JUST BECAUSE
CALIFORNIA DOES NOT HAVE A
COMPETITIVE TAX CREDIT AT ALL. I
KEEP ON BRINGING UP TAX CREDITS,
BUT IT ALL COMES DOWN TO WHAT
YOUR OPINION OF THE ROLE OF
GOVERNMENT IS. IF YOUR IDEA OF
THE ROLE OF GOVERNMENT IS THAT
GOVERNMENT IS A BUSINESS THAT
NEEDS TO BE PUTTING OUT PROFITS,
THEN TAX CREDITS DON'T MAKE
SENSE AT ALL. BUT IF YOU YOUR
BELIEF IS GOVERNMENT IS TO HELP
SERVE THE PEOPLE AND MAKE LIFE
BETTER THAN TAX CREDITS. MAKE
ALL THE BEST SENSE. NOW, IF WE
ARE TALKING ABOUT TAX CREDITS, I
DO SUGGEST BECAUSE CHEN I IS
AFFECTING US, THAT THERE NEEDS
TO BE A, A REQUIREMENT THAT, YOU
HIRE ACTUAL PEOPLE INSTEAD OF
MACHINES TO DO THE WORK. IT
SHOULD BE. IT SHOULD MAKE SENSE
THAT PRODUCTIONS WHO HIRE PEOPLE
GET SHOULD BENEFIT FROM THAT.
YEAH. I'LL, I'LL ADD IN THAT IN
ADDITION TO I'LL DOUBLE DOWN ON
THE TAX INCENTIVE PIECE. BUT,
THERE'S ALSO THE EXCHANGE RATE,
AS ANOTHER PIECE OF IT. SO
OBVIOUSLY TONS OF WORK HAS GONE
FOR YEARS UP TO CANADA, SHOOTING
IN VANCOUVER AND TORONTO. I KNOW
PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY WENT AND GOT
THEIR CANADIAN CITIZENSHIP
BECAUSE THEY FOUND THEY WERE
WORKING MORE IN CANADA, AND IT
BEHOOVED THEM TO BE A CANADIAN
CITIZEN, AND THEY FELT LIKE THEY
WORKED MORE. AND THESE ARE FOLKS
THAT THAT MADE THEIR BONES AND
THESE ARE SOME OF ONE OF THE
PEOPLE I'M THINKING OF IS
ACTUALLY, LEGACY HOLLYWOOD
ROYALTY, THERE, THERE. HIS
FATHER WAS A WAS A KNOWN ACTOR
THAT WE WOULD ALL RECOGNIZE AS,
BUT ALSO OTHER COUNTRIES IN
EUROPE AND THAT SORT OF THING,
THE WORK GOES WHERE THE TAX
INCENTIVES ARE. THE EXCHANGE
RATE IS THERE. BUT THE THING
I'LL SAY WITH REFERENCE TO AI IS
THE ABILITY TO DO THOSE
RESHOOTS, AI MAKES THOSE
RESHOOTS MUCH MORE USABLE, MUCH
MORE COST EFFICIENT TO DO,
BECAUSE YOU DON'T NECESSARILY
NEED TO GO BACK TO BUDAPEST TO
SHOOT, WE CAN NOW MANIPULATE AND
DO IT ON A VOLUME HERE IN
SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA OR WHEREVER
THE EDITING IS HAPPENING AND
THAT SORT OF THING. SO THE AI
ENABLES YOU TO IT RE
INCENTIVIZES YOU GOING SOMEPLACE
ELSE BECAUSE IT REMOVES ONE OF
THE OBSTACLES TO SHOOTING
SOMEPLACE ELSE. ONE OF THE BIG
OBSTACLES IS IF I SHOOT IN
BUDAPEST AND YOU SAY, WELL, BUT
IF WE END UP WITH RESHOOTS, WE
GOT TO GO ALL THE WAY BACK TO
BUDAPEST AND THEY'RE LIKE, WELL,
NOW WE DON'T, YOU CAN SHOOT IN
BUDAPEST, SHOOT IT MAD CHEAP.
AND THEN WHEN, WHEN WE FIND OUT
THAT WE NEED MAJOR AMOUNTS OF
RESHOOTS, WE'VE GOT AI TO
RECREATE WHATEVER ATMOSPHERE AND
ENVIRONMENT THAT WE SHOT IN
ORIGINALLY. GREAT, GREAT, JUST.
I'M SURE YOU WILL. I'M GOING TO.
THANK YOU. WE HAVE ONE MORE
ADDITIONAL QUESTION, BUT I'M
GOING TO ASK TIANA REGALIA, THE,
BAY AREA ARTIST DESIGNER, TO
PLEASE COME AND HAVE A SEAT
ALONG WITH THE PROFESSOR ONCE
AGAIN. AND THEN, WE WANT TO GO
TO MEMBER WILSON AND THEN ALSO
THE, CHAIRWOMAN OF, BAUER-KAHAN
ONE FOLLOW UP TO THE
CONVERSATION YOU WERE HAVING
EARLIER, MY QUESTIONS WAS
CENTERED AROUND, YOU KNOW, MY
HAT AS A LEGISLATOR. BUT SOME OF
THIS HAS TO DO WITH, I THINK,
CONSUMER DEMAND WHEN YOU TALK
ABOUT THE SAVINGS, RIGHT, THAT
PEOPLE GET AND THE LACK OF
COMPETITIVE TAX CREDIT AND SOME
OF THIS HAS TO DO WITH WHAT
CONSUMERS THINK OF VALUE FOR THE
DOLLAR THAT THEY PAY TO GO TO
THE MOVIE. SO MY QUESTION, MY
FOLLOW UP QUESTION IN THE TAX
CONVERSATION AND LABOR
CONVERSATION IS WHAT SHOULD
CONSUMERS BE ASKING FOR IN TERMS
OF THE CONTENT THAT THEY GET?
WHAT COULD WHAT SHOULD CONSUMERS
BE DOING? BECAUSE I REMEMBER A
LONG TIME, WHEN I WAS YOUNGER,
WHEN PEOPLE WERE, TAKING VIDEOS
AND, AND, AND DUBBING THEM SO
THEY CAN WATCH VIDEOS AND NOT
PAY TO GO TO THE MOVIES. AND
THERE WAS THIS WHOLE CAMPAIGN ON
THE END OF THE MOVIE, YOU KNOW,
ABOUT THAT. SO I JUST WONDERED
IF I COULD HEAR IT FROM YOU. AS
YOU KNOW, THE LABOR, SO TO
SPEAK, WHAT YOU THINK CONSUMERS
SHOULD BE ASKING FOR, FOR THEIR
CONTENT, THE CONSUMERS, VOTE
WITH THEIR MONEY IS VERY
OBVIOUS, CONSUMERS DON'T LIKE
ANYTHING THAT'S BORING,
SOMETHING THEY HAVE SEEN BEFORE,
AND SPECIFICALLY MY JOB. AND THE
REASON WHY I'VE BEEN DOING THIS
FOR THE LAST 20 YEARS IS TO COME
UP WITH SOMETHING THAT PEOPLE
HAVEN'T SEEN BEFORE. I KNOW
THERE'S A PHILOSOPHICAL QUESTION
OF LIKE, OH, EVERYTHING'S BEEN
DONE BEFORE. WHAT'S THE POINT?
BUT THAT'S NOT TRUE. MY JOB IS
SPECIFICALLY TO COME UP WITH
SOMETHING THAT PEOPLE HAVE NOT
SEEN BEFORE, EVEN THOUGH THERE'S
THAT PHILOSOPHY PHILOSOPHICAL
QUESTION, THE CONSUMERS INNATELY
KNOW THAT WHEN THEY'VE SEEN
SOMETHING BEFORE, THEY JUST
DON'T GO SEE IT AGAIN. LOOK AT
THE LAST FEW MOVIES THAT HAVE
COME OUT, WE HAVE A BIG TENTPOLE
MOVIE THAT CAME OUT THIS JUST
THIS WEEKEND CALLED FURIOSA,
WHICH FOR ALL INTENTS AND
PURPOSES, THE MAD MAX FURIOSA
FIRST VERSION WAS AMAZING.
EVERYONE WATCHED IT, THEY PAID
FOR IT, AND WHATEVER THIS
WEEKEND WAS CONSIDERED A BOX
OFFICE BOMB, EVEN THOUGH IT WAS
TECHNICALLY A NEW MOVIE. PEOPLE
WERE LIKE, IT'S THE SAME THING
I'VE SEEN BEFORE. I'M NOT GOING
TO GO SPEND 20 BUCKS TO GO SEE
THE EXACT SAME THING. I'VE
ALREADY SEEN. SO IF YOU'RE
WORRIED ABOUT ORIGINALITY, CHEN,
I IS DEFINITELY NOT THE WAY TO
DO IT, I WOULD SAY, YOU KNOW,
AUDIENCE AND TO THIS, TO A
DEGREE, THEY DO IT NATURALLY
DEMAND HUMAN ARTISTRY, DEMAND,
DEMAND AUTHENTICITY, YOU
MENTIONED FURIOSA, THE MAD MAX
MOVIE THAT CAME OUT A FEW YEARS
AGO. ONE OF THE MAJOR MARKETING
TOOLS WAS TALKING ABOUT ALL OF
THIS INSANE STUNTS THAT YOU SEE
WERE ACTUALLY DONE BY HUMAN
BEINGS. AND THAT WAS A MASSIVE
PART OF THEIR MARKETING PLOY AND
ACTUALLY MEANT SOMETHING TO
PEOPLE, SOMEBODY RISKED THEIR
LIFE TO DO THAT, MY FAMILY AND
I, WE JUST SAW THE FALL GUY OVER
THE WEEKEND WHEN YOU KNOW THAT
IT'S A REAL PERSON THAT DID IT,
IT MEANS SOMETHING DIFFERENT
THAN IT WAS GENERATED IN A
COMPUTER, AND YOU CARE MORE
ABOUT KNOWING THAT SOMEBODY DID
THAT IN FRONT OF YOU? I'M A
THEATER GUY. WHEN WE GO SEE A
THEATER SHOW AND THEY'RE. AND
EVEN THOUGH IT'S A MUSICAL,
THERE ARE PEOPLE STILL FLINGING
THEMSELVES THROUGH THE AIR AND
DOING THESE AEROBATIC STUNTS.
YOU THINK THAT'S AMAZING? AND
THAT'S A DIFFERENT EXPERIENCE,
EVEN WHEN IT'S FILMED. KNOWING
THAT A HUMAN BEING RISKED THEIR
LIFE TO DO IT, KNOWING THAT A
HUMAN BEING WAS BEHIND IT, YOU
CAN PAY TO SEE, YOU KNOW,
TUPAC'S, YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW,
HOLOGRAM. BUT BUT, YOU'RE NOT
GOING TO GET ME TO PAY WHAT I
WOULD HAVE PAID TO SEE THE REAL
TUPAC, AND SO I THINK THAT
THAT'S NATURALLY HAPPENING
BECAUSE A GIMMICK IS FINE, BUT
PEOPLE STILL WANT TO KNOW, LIKE,
FOR REAL. DID SOMEBODY DO THAT
OR IS THERE A REAL HUMAN BEING
THERE? AND I THINK THE MORE WE
CAN START TO DISCLOSE THAT
AGAIN, SHOW ME THE RECEIPTS. IF
I CAN AUTHENTICALLY SAY ALL
THESE STUNTS WERE REALLY
PERFORMED THAT YADDA YADDA
YADDA, THEN THAT MEANS
SOMETHING. BUT IF YOU'RE LIKE, I
CAN'T BACK IT UP, THEN PEOPLE,
THEY STAY AWAY. I SAW AN IMPROV
SHOW THIS WEEKEND TALK ABOUT THE
BRILLIANCE OF HUMAN ARTISTRY. SO
FUN, ONE QUESTION ABOUT THE TAX
CREDITS YOU WERE MENTIONING. ONE
OF THE THINGS THAT, YOU KNOW, WE
DO HAVE TAX CREDITS FOR
INDUSTRY, BUT IF YOU WERE TO
REQUIRE THAT THEY NOT USE CHEN,
I WHAT'S HAPPENING IN OTHER
STATES, ARE THEY JUST GOING TO
LEAVE US TO GO DO IT WHERE THEY
CAN DO CHEN I WELL, SORRY, I
MEAN, SURE, THAT'S A GOOD VALID
QUESTION, BUT THERE'S ALREADY A
PRECEDENT IN THIS. I MEAN, LIKE
I SAID BEFORE, I WASN'T I
OBVIOUSLY DIDN'T COME UP WITH
THIS IDEA, STATE OF NEW YORK,
ACTUALLY CAME UP WITH THIS IDEA.
AND I MEAN, FOR AS FAR AS I KNOW
, IT'S STILL GOING THROUGH THE
WHOLE THING. YEAH, BUT THERE'S
SOMETHING VERY AMAZING ABOUT
CALIFORNIA, DESPITE THE FACT
THAT WE HAVE INTENSE COMPETITION
FROM ALL THESE OTHER
MUNICIPALITIES, FROM GEORGIA,
FROM NEW YORK, THE ENTIRE
COUNTRY OF CANADA, EUROPE, EVERY
SINGLE MOVIE STILL STARTS HERE
IN CALIFORNIA. EVERYBODY STILL
WANTS TO BE HERE, DESPITE HOW
HOSTILE SOME OF MIGHT ARGUE.
SOME OF THESE INCENTIVES ARE.
PEOPLE STILL WANT TO START HERE.
SO IT'S ALMOST, PARDON THE TERM,
ALMOST LIKE SHOOTING FISH IN A
BARREL IF THEY JUST HELPED IT
WITH A LITTLE BIT OF TAX CREDIT
TO MAKE THAT HAPPEN. GOT IT.
YEAH. AND I'LL DOUBLE DOWN AND
SAY I THINK THERE'S I THINK
THERE'S VALUE IN SAYING YOU CAN
GET MORE OF THE TAX CREDIT LIKE
WE, LIKE WE DO WITH THE
DIVERSITY ASPECT OF IT OR WHAT
HAVE YOU, THAT THERE'S AN EXTRA
INCENTIVE INSIDE OF THE
INCENTIVE, IF YOU CAN TELL US
AND SHOW US THE RECEIPTS THAT I
WAS I DID NOT REPLACE, REPLACE,
YES. I MEAN, IF YOU USE I, IF I
CHOOSE TO USE I AS AN ARTIST TO
HELP PERFORM MY WORK, THAT'S
FINE. RIGHT. BUT IF IT REPLACED
ARTISTS, THEN YOU WON'T GET THIS
EXTRA INCENTIVE. I APPRECIATE
THAT, THANK YOU BOTH. THANK YOU
VERY MUCH. AGAIN. IT'S BEEN A
VERY ROBUST CONVERSATION. AND
WAKANDA FOREVER. I'M A BLACK
MAN. I MEAN, THAT WAS A GREAT
MOVIE. AND SO WHAT KIND IS A
REAL PLACE? WE KNOW IT TO BE
TRUE. YEAH, I KNOW, I KNOW
ABSOLUTELY, ABSOLUTELY. BUT YOUR
PERSPECTIVE HAS CERTAINLY BEEN,
RECEIVED VERY WELL BY NOT ONLY
MY COLLEAGUES, BUT THE
INFORMATION YOU PROVIDED, TO US
HAS BEEN INVALUABLE, AND YOU'VE
GIVEN US A LOT OF ANTIDOTE AND
AS WELL AS DIRECTION. DIDN'T
KNOW THAT NEW YORK WAS MOVING IN
THIS DIRECTION, EVEN ELEVATING
THE TAX CREDIT FOR US TO HAVE A
CONVERSATION, WE UNDERSTAND THAT
WE'RE COMPETING WITH OTHER
STATES, AND OTHER STATES ARE
PUTTING REAL MONEY ON THE TABLE
FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE OF TAKING
AWAY THE PRODUCTIVITY AND THE
BUSINESS FROM CALIFORNIA. AND
THAT'S WHY THIS CONVERSATION,
THIS INFORMATIONAL HEARING, IS
IMPORTANT, BECAUSE WE DON'T WANT
THAT THOSE THAT JOB TO GO OVER
TO ANOTHER STATE, WE WANT IT TO
REMAIN HERE, IN CALIFORNIA,
WHERE HOLLYWOOD HAS IS
ORIGINATED. RIGHT. PEOPLE COME
TO CALIFORNIA BECAUSE THE GLITZ
AND THE GLAMOR AND HOLLYWOOD IS
HERE. THE STARS, THE CELEBRITY.
AND WE WANT TO MAKE SURE WE
MAINTAIN THAT, AT ALL COSTS. AND
SO WE SHOULD BE HAVING ANOTHER
CONVERSATION, ESPECIALLY AROUND
THE TAX CREDIT, AND OTHER, OTHER
ISSUES THAT YOU BROUGHT FORTH.
SO I WANT TO SAY THANK YOU VERY
MUCH. WE MAY HAVE SOME
QUESTIONS. SO IF TIME WILL
PERMIT, IF YOU CAN STAY, WE
WOULD LOVE FOR YOU TO STAY, IF
NOT, WE THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR
APPEARING, AND WE'RE GOING TO GO
TO OUR LAST AND FINAL PANEL OF
THIS MORNING, THIS AFTERNOON,
FOCUSING ON THE ARTISTS,
PERSPECTIVE OF AI IN THE
ENTERTAINMENT SPACE. AND SO WE
HAVE OUR PRESENTERS UP, AND WE
WILL BE ASKING FOR, WOULD YOU
PLEASE PRONOUNCE YOUR LAST NAME
FOR ME, TIANA? I THINK IT'S
PRONOUNCED AURELIA. ONE MORE
TIME. AURELIA. SO JUST DON'T SAY
THE G OR AURELIA. OKAY. GREAT.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH. SO WE'LL
START WITH YOU. SO PLEASE START
WHEN READY. OKAY. I HAVE SOME
SLIDES. IT'S NICE TO MEET YOU
HERE. AND THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR
THIS INFORMATIONAL HEARING,
LET'S GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE,
PLEASE. I JUST WANTED TO BRIEFLY
INTRODUCE MYSELF. MY NAME IS
TIANA AURELIA. I'M A CONCEPT
ARTIST, ILLUSTRATOR, AND COMIC
ARTIST THAT HAS BEEN
PREDOMINANTLY WORKING IN GAMES,
I'VE BEEN WORKING AS A CONTRACT
ARTIST FOR VALVE VALVE
CORPORATION FOR ABOUT A YEAR,
BUT I ALSO DID CHARACTER DESIGNS
FOR A GAME CALLED VOODOO
DETECTIVE, AND I WAS A
PRODUCTION. YEAH, SURE. SORRY.
SORRY. I'LL START OVER. I'VE
BEEN WORKING. YEAH AS A
CHARACTER DESIGNER ON A GAME
CALLED VOODOO DETECTIVE, AND WAS
A PRODUCTION INTERN AT WARNER
BROTHERS ANIMATION FOR GREEN
EGGS AND HAM. I'VE DONE VARIOUS
ODD JOBS AND ILLUSTRATIONS AND
HAVE HELPED WITH PITCH DECKS. I
HAVE ABOUT SIX YEARS EXPERIENCE
ACROSS VARIOUS ART INDUSTRIES,
NEXT SLIDE PLEASE, I'VE
PREDOMINANTLY DONE CONTRACT WORK
FOR THE MAJORITY OF MY CAREER,
AND I WANTED TO TALK ABOUT HOW
THAT WORKS AND WHAT DOES IT MEAN
TO BE A FREELANCE ARTIST AND HOW
GENERATIVE AI HAS IMPACTED
FREELANCE ARTISTS. AS A CONTRACT
WORKER, I AM NOT PART OF A
UNION, SO I DON'T GET ANY OF THE
BENEFITS THAT THOSE SAY AND
ANIMATE THAT IN THE ANIMATION
GUILD MIGHT GET. I DON'T GET
INSURANCE AND OR PAID TIME OFF
LIKE A FULL TIME EMPLOYEE, ANY
BARGAINING POWER THAT WORKERS
AND UNIONS MAY HAVE WRITING UP
CONTRACTS I DON'T HAVE, SO WHEN
IT COMES TO A GENERATIVE AI, WE
REALLY NEED, LEGISLATION TO COME
IN AND HELP PROTECT CONTRACT AND
FREELANCE ARTISTS WHO DON'T HAVE
THAT PROTECTIONS. I'M CONSTANTLY
JUMPING FROM CONTRACT TO
CONTRACT, FROM NEXT GIG TO NEXT
GIG. AND THAT'S SORT OF THE
STANDARD, YOU CAN GO FOR MONTHS
WITHOUT HAVING WORK. AND THAT'S
AGAIN, PRETTY STANDARD, THE CPA
STUDY FOUND THAT THE MAJORITY OF
ART AND DESIGN WORKERS WERE
ABOUT 70, 70. SO THE MAJORITY OF
WORKERS ARE IN FACT FREELANCE,
AND NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE. I'VE
SPOKEN WITH NUMEROUS ARTISTS AT
THIS POINT WHO IN ONE WAY OR
ANOTHER, HAVE BEEN NEGATIVELY
IMPACTED, THE BLOG POST I POSTED
HERE, WHICH IS ENTIRELY NOT
READABLE, BUT, IS A SEGMENT MY
FRIEND WROTE ABOUT HOW, A BOOK
ILLUSTRATION COVERS ARE BEING
TAKEN OVER BY GENERATIVE AI.
THIS IS NOT THE FIRST TIME I'VE
HEARD THIS FROM NUMEROUS
ARTISTS. THIS IS THE CASE. IT'S
TAKING OVER MORE AND MORE WORK,
ESPECIALLY FROM FREELANCE
ARTISTS, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW,
WE'RE EASY TO CUT OUT, WORK THAT
PREVIOUSLY COULD HAVE BEEN DONE
BY RECENT GRADS IS NOW BEING
USED, GENERATIVE AI IS NOW BEING
USED. STUFF THAT I CUT MY TEETH
ON, LIKE MARKETING ART
ILLUSTRATIONS IS NOW BEING GIVEN
OVER, THIS MEANS WE WON'T HAVE
ANY UPCOMING TALENT, AND YOUNG
PEOPLE OFTEN LEAD INNOVATION,
NEXT SLIDE PLEASE. THERE'S A
NARRATIVE GOING AROUND RIGHT NOW
THAT IT'S ALL THE STRIKES THAT
CAUSED THE CURRENT STATE OF
ENTERTAINMENT AND JOB LOSS, BUT
I WORK IN GAMES WHERE WE HAD NO
STRIKE IN 2023 WAS A VERY
SUCCESSFUL YEAR FOR GAMES.
BALDUR'S GATE THREE WAS A
BREAKOUT HIT, AND STILL WIZARDS
OF THE COAST, WHO WHO OWNED THE
DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS AND
BALDUR'S GATE IP CUT MORE THAN A
THOUSAND JOBS THIS WAS A TREND
THAT HAS CONTINUED THROUGHOUT
GAMES, WITH SOME CEOS BOASTING
USE OF GENERATIVE AI TO CUT
COSTS AND SOME SAYING IT WILL
LEAD TO MORE PROJECTS. NEXT
SLIDE. UNFORTUNATELY, THIS IS
NOT THE CASE, NEXT SLIDE. THE
TREND HAS CONTINUED IN GAMES
WHERE ONLY HALFWAY THROUGH THE
YEAR AND LAYOFFS HAVE ALREADY
REACHED ALMOST THE SAME LEVEL AS
2023, WITH ONLY MORE TO COME.
I'M NOT TRYING TO IMPLY THAT ALL
THESE LAYOFFS ARE CAUSED ONLY BY
AI, BUT IT SEEMS SUSPICIOUS WHEN
CEOS BOAST HOW AI WILL CHANGE
GAMING ONLY TO LAY OFF WORKERS
IN THE WEEKS FOLLOWING. NEXT
SLIDE PLEASE, GOLDMAN SACHS
PREDICTED 300 MILLION JOBS WILL
BE LOST OR DEGRADED DUE TO AI.
THIS DOESN'T JUST APPLY TO
ARTISTS. BY THE WAY, EARLIER
THIS YEAR, DUOLINGO, CUT DOWN ON
THEIR FREELANCE WORKERS. SO IN
FAVOR OF AI TRANSLATIONS. AND
EVEN TRUCKERS ARE FIGHTING
AUTOMATION, SINCE ROBOCARS AND
ROBO TRUCKS ARE STARTING TO
BECOME A REALITY, NEXT SLIDE,
PLEASE. I WANTED TO TALK ABOUT
PRIVACY. NOW, EARLIER THIS YEAR,
I USED. HAVE I BEEN TRAINED TO
CHECK IF ANY OF MY ARTWORK MADE
IT INTO THESE DATABASES THAT ARE
BEING USED TO TRAIN, TRAIN,
MODELS? I EVENTUALLY STUMBLED
UPON WORK I DID IN HIGH SCHOOL
WORK I MOSTLY DID AS A CHILD. IT
WASN'T THAT. AND THEY JUST SAID
IT WITHOUT MY CONSENT. LEÓN FIVE
BE SCRAPED THE ENTIRE WEB FOR
THIS DATA UNDER THE PRETENSE OF
RESEARCH. BEYOND CONTAINING MY
PERSONAL ARTWORK, IT INCLUDES
ALL SORTS OF SENSITIVE PERSONAL
DATA ALONG WITH MORE NEFARIOUS
THINGS LIKE CHILD ABUSE
MATERIAL. NEXT SLIDE. WHEN
PEOPLE SELL THEIR AI AS ETHICAL,
I KNOW IT'S JUST A MARKETING
BUZZWORD THAT WON'T HOLD UP TO
SCRUTINY TIME AND TIME AGAIN.
IT'S FOUND THAT THESE MODELS ALL
END UP USING DATA THAT THEY
DON'T OWN OR HAVE PERMISSION TO
USE. ADOBE FIREFLY WAS TOUTED AS
ETHICAL FOR ARTISTS AND IT
TURNED OUT, HAD BEEN TRAINING ON
MIDJOURNEY. AND IF YOU KNOW
ANYTHING ABOUT MIDJOURNEY,
YOU'LL KNOW THEY HAVE SOME
ONGOING LAWSUITS RIGHT NOW. NEXT
SLIDE. FOR SUCH AN INNOVATIVE
PIECE OF TECHNOLOGY, IT DOES
SEEM LIKE PLAGIARISTS AND
SCAMMERS ARE FINDING THEIR
FOOTING WITHIN THEIR NEW
FAVORITE TOY, NEXT SLIDE.
ARTISTS NEED SOCIAL MEDIA.
SOCIAL MEDIA IS HOW WE'RE SEEN
BY RECRUITERS, HOW PEOPLE FIND
OUR WORK IN THE FIRST PLACE, AND
HOW WE CAN GROW AN AUDIENCE.
EVEN FIND ARTISTS WHO DO GALLERY
SHOWS NEED SOCIAL MEDIA TO
SPREAD AWARENESS ABOUT THEIR
ARTWORK AND NETWORK. SO THAT
BEING SAID, WHAT DO WE DO WHEN
WE CAN'T POST OUR ART RELIABLY
ONLINE ANYMORE FOR FEAR IT WILL
BE USED IN THESE MODELS? THESE
WEBSITES SEEM TO BE ABLE TO
CHANGE THEIR TERMS OF SERVICE AT
THE DROP OF A HAT, AND PEOPLE
AREN'T ANY WISER BECAUSE WHO
READS, YOU KNOW, ALL THE TERMS
OF SERVICE. NOBODY LIKE THAT'S
JUST THE TRUTH. RECENTLY PEOPLE
HAVE BEEN GETTING NOTICED FROM
META THAT THERE'S A WAY TO OPT
OUT. HOWEVER THEY ONLY SEEM TO
APPLY IN CERTAIN REGIONS AND
OTHER COUNTRIES WHERE THEY HAVE
LAWS THAT PROTECT THEM AGAINST
THIS MASS DATA SCRAPING. I TRIED
AND I CAN'T READ IT, BUT IT
BASICALLY SAID THAT I CAN'T
PROVE THAT THE OUTPUT HAS MY
PERSONAL DATA WITHIN IT, BUT
IT'S LIKE I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT
IT'S TRAINED ON. SO WHO KNOWS
WHAT'S IN THERE, RIGHT, SO YEAH,
THERE'S JUST LIKE, NO WAY TO OPT
OUT IN SOME, IN SOME CASES, NEXT
SLIDE, AND I'M GOING TO DO
SOMETHING A BIT DIFFERENT AND
TALK ABOUT HOW MACHINE LEARNING
COULD BE USED AS A BOON WITHIN
THE ARTS AND ENTERTAINMENT.
INNOVATION IN ART SHOULD BE LED
BY ARTISTS OR AT LEAST VERY
LEAST SHOULD BE COLLABORATING
WITH US. THE TECH WORLD PEDDLING
INNOVATION OFF THE BACK OF
WORKING ARTISTS IS HARDLY
INNOVATION. WHEN ONE COMES OFF
AT THE COST OF LIVELIHOOD AND
TWO SPITS OUT FOR SOME
FACSIMILES OF EXISTING ARTWORKS
IN BOTH SPIDER-VERSE AND CLAWS,
THEY HAD A PROBLEM FIRST, AND
USED MACHINE LEARNING TO QUICKEN
UP AND HELP ARTISTS WITH MORE
TEDIOUS TASKS. FOR SPIDER-VERSE,
IT WAS TO TRAIN THE SYSTEM TO
FOLLOW THESE HAND-DRAWN LINES. A
HUMAN ARTIST STILL HAS TO GO IN
AND FIX THINGS, BUT IT TASKS
DOWN AN INSURMOUNTABLE TASK TO
SOMETHING MORE MANAGEABLE. NEXT
SLIDE. KLAUS DID SOMETHING
SIMILAR FOR THEIR SHADOW AND
LIGHT IN THE FILM. BOTH OF THESE
TOOLS COMPLEMENT HUMAN TALENT
AND WERE NEVER MEANT TO DISPLACE
THEM. IT'S GENUINELY TOOL, AND I
JUST WANT TO REITERATE THAT THIS
IS NOT GENERATIVE AI. IT'S
MACHINE LEARNING USED TO HELP
QUICKEN UP CERTAIN PROCESSES. I
DO NEED TO PUSH BACK ON THE IDEA
THAT GENERATIVE AI IS JUST LIKE
ANY OTHER TOOL. A TOOL USUALLY
HELPS MAKE THINGS FASTER, IT
DOESN'T DO EVERYTHING FOR ME, A
GENERATIVE AI IS AN ENTIRELY
DIFFERENT BEAST. ITS WHOLE
SELLING POINT IS THAT ANYONE CAN
USE IT. IT'S NOT UPSKILLING,
IT'S A DE-SKILLING WHO NEEDS
SKILLED WORKERS ANYMORE. WHEN
ANY JOE SCHMO CAN JUST TYPE IN A
PROMPT AND PUT OUT FINISHED ISH
LOOKING ARTWORKS, NEXT SLIDE,
AND IN THIS LAST SECTION, I'M
GOING TO GET A LITTLE BIT
ROMANTIC ABOUT ART, BUT I TO DO
TRULY BELIEVE ART MATTERS SO
MUCH, VIDEO GAMES, TVS AND
MOVIES. THIS IS WHERE PEOPLE
WENT DURING THE PANDEMIC
LOCKDOWN TO, I ASKED A GROUP OF
MY FRIENDS TO TELL ME HOW ART
HAS PERSONALLY IMPACTED THEM,
AND IT'S MANAGED TO SHAPE THEIR
CAREERS, BE AN EMOTIONAL
CATHARSIS IN TRYING TIMES, OR
ALLEVIATE STRESS. I THINK WE'VE
ALL HAD EXPERIENCES WITH ART
THAT HAVE SHAPED WHO WE ARE OR
IMPACTED US IN SOME, IN SOME
WAY, AT LEAST FOR ME, THAT IS
TRUE. IF YOU DON'T HAVE ARTISTS,
THE TECH HAS NOWHERE TO GO AND
ARTISTS CAN'T SURVIVE AND
CONTRIBUTE WITHOUT BEING FAIRLY
COMPENSATED SO THEY CAN CONTINUE
TO CONTRIBUTE AND BRING
CREATIVITY AND INNOVATION.
ARTISTS CONTRIBUTE TO INNOVATION
TOO, NEXT SLIDE. ARTISTS ARE
ABLE TO DO WHAT THEY DO BECAUSE
THEY HAVE MONETARY SUPPORT. SOME
OF THE GREATEST WORKS THAT HAVE
BEEN TANTAMOUNT TO ADDING TO
CULTURE TO SOCIETY HAVE BEEN
COMMISSIONED. THINK OF THE
SISTINE CHAPEL BY MICHELANGELO
OR PICASSO'S GUERNICA. PEOPLE
TRAVEL TO SEE THESE PIECES. IF
ART WERE AN IMPORTANT, IT
WOULDN'T LEAVE THE KIND OF
IMPRESSION THAT MAKES ALL THESE
AI COMPANIES AND STARTUPS
REFERENCE GREAT ART CONSTANTLY.
WHY IS TECH SEEN AS PARAMOUNT OF
INNOVATION? I FIND IT IRONIC
THAT THESE TECH COMPANIES END UP
REFERENCING GREAT SCI FI
LITERATURE, SHOWS AND MOVIES,
AND THANK YOU SO MUCH. THAT'S
THE END. THANK YOU VERY MUCH,
PROFESSOR. THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT.
YEAH. IF YOU COULD SLIDE THAT,
START THOSE SLIDES AND JUST SKIP
TO THE NEXT ONE. YEAH. GO AHEAD
AND JUST ANIMATE THROUGH THOSE.
THANK YOU, SO WHAT I FEAR ARE
SCREENSHOTS THAT I'VE TAKEN FROM
A WEBSITE CALLED CIVET AI. AND
CIVET AI IS ONE OF THESE RAPIDLY
GROWING PLATFORMS THAT,
DEMOCRATIZES QUOTE UNQUOTE OTHER
PEOPLE'S WORK PRODUCT THROUGH
GENERATIVE AI MODELS AND SO ON.
CIVET AI, YOU CAN DOWNLOAD
LIGHTWEIGHT MODELS THAT HAVE
CAPTURED, IN MANY CASES, THE
SPECIFIC ART STYLES OF
INDIVIDUAL ARTISTS AND CREATORS,
SO THIS IS WHAT I WAS TALKING
ABOUT EARLIER WHEN I SPOKE ABOUT
MIMICRY. WHEN YOU FINE TUNE ON A
VERY SPECIFIC PERSON'S ARTWORK,
NOT QUITE LIKE SCARLETT
JOHANSSON'S VOICE, THESE ARE
WORKS ARE NOT THEY DO NOT COME
WITH A FACE OR A IMMEDIATELY
RECOGNIZABLE, NAME, BUT BUT THEY
ARE IN BY ALL RESPECTS,
BASICALLY THE CULMINATION OF
SOMEONE'S LIVELIHOOD, TRAINING
AND PRACTICING FOR DECADES OF
WORK. SOMETIMES, THE THREE
PIECES TO THE LEFT, I WANT TO
POINT OUT WERE WERE FOUND IN ON
CIVET. I, I SCREAM STARTED THOSE
FROM LAST YEAR, THEY'RE BASED
LARGELY TWO OF THE THREE ARE
BASED ON AMERICAN ARTISTS, THE
TWO ON THE RIGHT WERE WHEN I
WENT BACK TO CIVET. I MORE
RECENTLY, AND IT SEEMS LIKE
THERE WAS MUCH MORE EMPHASIS ON
JAPANESE ARTISTS, BUT YEAH, EACH
OF THEM, YOU CAN SEE, CAPTURES A
PARTICULAR UNIQUE ARTISTIC STYLE
AND BASICALLY MAKES THAT
PERSON'S LIVELIHOOD AND, MOOT
BECAUSE NOW ANYONE CAN DOWNLOAD
THIS TRIVIAL LITTLE MODEL AND
BASICALLY USE YOUR HOME COMPUTER
TO GENERATE WHATEVER IMAGES THEY
WANT IN THAT PERSON'S ARTISTIC
STYLE. IT WILL BE A POOR
FACSIMILE, BUT FOR MANY PURPOSES
IT WILL BE SUFFICIENT. SO IT IS
OFTENTIMES THE NIGHTMARE OF
NIGHTMARES FOR AN ESTABLISHED
ARTIST TO WAKE UP ONE DAY AND
FIND THEMSELVES IN SUCH A
SETTING, BECAUSE IT BASICALLY
DEVALUES THEIR WORK TO THE POINT
WHERE NO ONE WOULD POTENTIALLY
WANT TO COMMISSION THEM ANYMORE,
AND THIS IS REALLY THE SORT OF
FUNDAMENTAL FEAR, IF YOU WILL,
THAT MANY INDEPENDENT ARTISTS,
ESPECIALLY WHO DO NOT WORK WITH
ESTABLISHED COMPANY, FACE, THEY
ARE TORN BETWEEN THIS ROCK AND A
HARD PLACE WHERE THEY HAVE TO
ADVERTISE THEIR OWN WORK ONLINE,
IN ORDER TO GET COMMISSIONS IN
ORDER TO SURVIVE AND BRING IN
INCOME. AND YET, WHEN THEY DO
SO, THEY'RE VERY MUCH AWARE OF
THE FACT THAT THAT MEANS
UPLOADING THEIR WORK ONLINE, ON
SOCIAL MEDIA SITES, ON OTHER
PUBLICLY ACCESSIBLE WEBSITES
MEANS THAT ANYONE CAN SCRAPE
THOSE IMAGES AND TRAIN THESE
MODELS ON THEM AND EFFECTIVELY
END THEIR LIVELIHOOD, NEXT
SLIDE, PLEASE, YEAH. GO AHEAD.
OKAY. SO THIS IS WHY THERE ARE
SUCH A NEGATIVE IMPACT ON
ARTISTS, ESPECIALLY IN 2023.
MANY ARTISTS WERE QUITTING
THEIR, THEIR PROFESSION, MANY OF
THEM WERE, JUST, YOU KNOW,
SUFFERING FROM SEVERE ANXIETY
AND MENTAL ANGUISH, YOU KNOW,
THE LAST, IF YOU GET ONE MORE
ANIMATION, ONE MORE CLICK, THAT
ARTICLE IS ABOUT, STORIES OF
SELF-HARM BY ART STUDENTS IN
JAPAN BECAUSE THEY SEE THEIR
ENTIRE FUTURE CAREERS DESTROYED
IN FRONT OF THEM IN, IN REAL
TIME. NEXT SLIDE PLEASE. RIGHT.
SO YEAH. SO THIS IS THE SETTING
THAT SOME OF MY RESEARCH COMES
INTO, IN EARLY 2023 OR I SHOULD
SAY IN LATE 2022, I SORT OF BY
RANDOM CHANCE WAS CONTACTED BY
SOME ARTISTS, WHICH EFFECTIVELY
CHANGED MY SORT OF RESEARCH
CAREER, I STARTED WORKING WITH
ARTISTS TO UNDERSTAND THE
CHALLENGES THEY FACE WITH ART,
MIMICRY, AND ON THE TOP, WHAT
YOU SEE THERE IS BASICALLY WHAT
HAPPENS TO ARTISTS TODAY WITHOUT
PROTECTION. ANYONE CAN BASICALLY
TRAIN A MODEL, BASED ON IN THESE
SAMPLES FROM OUR FRIEND CARLO
ORTIZ, BUT BASICALLY YOU CAN
TRAIN A MODEL THAT BASICALLY
MIMICS CARLA'S ARTWORK PRETTY
ACCURATELY. AND AGAIN, LIKE
DREW, CARLA HAS WORKED ON BLACK
PANTHER AND A NUMBER OF OTHER
BLOCKBUSTERS THAT THAT MANY OF
YOU HAVE NO DOUBT SEEN, ON THE
BOTTOM ROW, YOU SEE WHAT HAPPENS
WHEN WE CAN ACTUALLY APPLY SOME
TECHNOLOGICAL TOOLS TO PROTECT
ARTISTS, YOU CAN TAKE ART. YOU
CAN ACTUALLY RUN IT THROUGH WHAT
WE CALL THE GLAZE TOOL,
EFFECTIVELY COMPUTES THIS
INVISIBLE FILTER. IF YOU WILL.
THAT CHANGES PIXELS IN SUCH A
WAY THAT HUMAN EYES DON'T REALLY
DETECT THE DIFFERENCE MUCH AT
ALL. SOMETIMES ARTISTS WILL DO
BEFORE AND AFTER SIDE BY SIDE AT
HIGH RESOLUTION, AND ESPECIALLY
MORE RECENTLY WITH OUR UPDATES,
THEY STILL HAVE TROUBLE FINDING
OUT WHICH ONE IS THE ORIGINAL,
BUT WHAT THAT DOES IS IT CHANGES
HOW THE AI MODELS SEE THINGS.
AND SO WHEN AI MODELS ARE
TRAINED ON PROTECTED IMAGES,
THEY COME OUT TRYING TO MIMIC
ENTIRELY DIFFERENT STYLE THAN
WHAT THEY INTENDED TO DO. AND
THAT'S HOW WE CAN PROTECT
ARTISTS. SO THAT THEY CAN UPLOAD
IMAGES, CONTINUE TO, TO BRING IN
COMMISSIONS AND SUSTAIN THEIR
LIVELIHOOD, WITHOUT, FEAR FROM
BEING MIMICKED, NEXT SLIDE
PLEASE. AND YOU CAN JUST ANIMATE
THROUGH THAT. THANK YOU. SO
THERE'S ARE MORE EXAMPLES, THE
ONES ON THE LEFT ARE BASICALLY
THE ORIGINAL PIECES OF ART, THE
ONES IN THE MIDDLE ARE WHAT YOU
GET WITHOUT PROTECTION. AND THE
ONES ON THE RIGHT ARE WHAT
HAPPENS WHEN SOMEONE TRIES TO
MIMIC YOUR ART AFTER IT'S
ALREADY BEEN PROTECTED. NEXT
SLIDE PLEASE. SO BRIEFLY, I WANT
TO TALK ABOUT COPYRIGHT AND IP
PROTECTION AT A BIGGER SCALE, I
THINK MORE RECENTLY WHAT WE'VE
SEEN IS THAT THE ISSUE OF IP
PROTECTION HAS NOW PROGRESSED
FROM INDEPENDENT ARTISTS TO
LARGER CREATIVE COMPANIES, MOVIE
STUDIOS, GAMING COMPANIES AND SO
ON, SO, FOR EXAMPLE, IF YOU ARE
A COMPANY LIKE NINTENDO, OF
COURSE YOU HAVE BELOVED
CHARACTERS THAT ANYONE INSTANTLY
RECOGNIZES. IF YOU ANIMATE THAT,
AND WHAT YOU SEE IS THAT THESE
ARE MIMIC VERSIONS OF NINTENDO
CHARACTERS THAT ANYONE CAN USE
WITH GENERATIVE AI. ONE MORE.
ALL RIGHT. OKAY SO ONCE THEY
MIMIC IT, THEY CAN NOW DO THINGS
LIKE PUT, YOU KNOW, NINTENDO
CHARACTERS INTO, YOU KNOW, STAR
WARS MOVIES OR, YOU KNOW, PUT
THEM IN OR ENTIRELY CREATE NEW
CHARACTERS THAT HAVE NO BASIS
OTHER THAN THE FACT THAT THEY,
LIKE, LOOK LIKE RECOGNIZABLE
NINTENDO CHARACTERS. NEXT SLIDE
PLEASE. SO WHAT IS A COMPANY DO
TO ACTUALLY PROTECT THEMSELVES?
AND THIS IS THE TROUBLE IS THAT
RIGHT NOW IT IS FINANCIALLY VERY
VIABLE, FOR GENERATIVE AI USERS
TO BASICALLY PRODUCE CONTENT
THAT MIMICS OR THAT LOOKS VERY
MUCH LIKE, OTHER PEOPLE'S
CONTENT THAT HAVE BEEN
COPYRIGHTED, THERE IS, I THINK,
AS, EARLIER PANEL POINTED OUT,
OPT OUT IS A FALSE PROMISE, OPT
OUT MEANS THAT YOU ARE BASICALLY
TRUSTING YOUR LIVELIHOOD TO THE
KINDNESS OF A TECHNOLOGY COMPANY
WHOSE SOLE FOCUS IS TO GAIN MORE
TRAINING DATA OF WHICH YOUR WORK
PRODUCT IS VALUABLE. AND SO I
ALSO WANT TO POINT OUT THAT FROM
A MACHINE LEARNING PERSPECTIVE,
OPT OUT. OH, SORRY. IF YOU CAN
GO TO THE NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE, TO
POINT OUT THAT OPT OUT IS
UNENFORCEABLE AND UNVERIFIABLE.
THAT MEANS THE COMPANY CAN
BASICALLY SAY THAT THEY'RE
ACTUALLY OPTING OUT AND
LITERALLY TURN AROUND AND TRAIN
YOUR DATA. AND THERE'S
MATHEMATICALLY AND TECHNICALLY,
THERE IS NO WAY TO PROVE THAT
ACTUALLY HAS HAPPENED. YOU
CANNOT TAKE A MODEL AND
DEFINITIVELY PROVE THAT A
PARTICULAR IMAGE WENT INTO THE
TRAINING DATA. WE DO NOT HAVE
THIS TECHNOLOGY TODAY. I WORK IN
THIS SPACE. YOU CAN DO THINGS
LIKE MEMBERSHIP INFERENCE
ATTACKS, AND YOU CAN PRODUCE
THINGS THAT KIND OF LOOK LIKE A
PARTICULAR KIND OF TRAINING DATA
, BUT IT IS FAR FROM ANYTHING
DEFINITIVE. AND AS THESE MODELS
GET BIGGER AND BIGGER, THAT
PROBLEM GETS HARDER AND HARDER.
SO I WILL JUST SAY THAT THESE
OPT OUTS ARE HOPES AND DREAMS,
AND PERHAPS THEY WILL WORK AT A
CERTAIN EXTENT, BUT IN REALITY,
THE BIGGER COMPANIES WITH
REPUTATIONAL DAMAGE WHO SIT IN
FRONT OF SENATE HEARINGS WILL
USE OPT OUT AS A CRUTCH TO SAY
THAT THEY ARE DOING THE RIGHT
THING. BUT UNDERNEATH IT ALL,
THERE IS NO ENFORCEMENT. THERE
IS NO VERIFIABILITY, BUT PERHAPS
MORE IMPORTANTLY, SMALLER
COMPANIES WHO HAVE NO
REPUTATIONAL REPUTATIONAL DAMAGE
DO NOT NEED TO WORRY ABOUT OPT
OUTS AT ALL, AND THEY CAN SCRAPE
AS THEY LIKE. SO THIS OTHER TOOL
THAT WE RECENTLY DEVELOPED,
CALLED NIGHTSHADE BASICALLY
TRIES TO ADDRESS THIS, BASICALLY
IF YOU ANIMATE THROUGH THE REST
OF THE SLIDE, WHAT IT DOES IS IT
ACTS KIND OF LIKE LAYERS, EXCEPT
FOR COMPOSITION. WHAT IT DOES IS
IT ALTERS IMAGES IN VERY SUBTLE
WAYS SO THAT IT DOESN'T LOOK
PARTICULARLY DIFFERENT FROM THE
HUMAN EYE TO THE HUMAN EYE, BUT
NOT TO THE AI MODEL. IT LOOKS
LIKE SOMETHING COMPLETELY
DIFFERENT. SO A PICTURE OF A DOG
WILL ACTUALLY TEACH FELINE
FEATURES TO THE MODEL SO THAT
WHEN IT'S PROMPTED LATER ON TO
GENERATE AN IMAGE OF A CAT OR,
SORRY, AN IMAGE OF A DOG, IT
WILL OUTPUT A CAT INSTEAD. NOW,
IF YOU COULD ANIMATE THROUGH THE
REST OF THAT NEXT SLIDE, PLEASE.
YEAH KEEP GOING. ALL RIGHT. SO
WHAT YOU SEE HERE IS MULTIPLE
ROWS OF THIS JUST TO DEMONSTRATE
THAT THIS IS ACTUALLY
TECHNICALLY FEASIBLE ON THE
LATEST MODELS. THIS IS XL WHICH
IS STABLE. DIFFUSION'S NEWEST
MODEL FROM OCTOBER 2023, IT IS
ROUGHLY ON PAR WITH MOST OF THE
MODELS THAT OTHER COMPANIES ARE
PRODUCED, ALTHOUGH WITHOUT
HAVING PROPRIETARY ACCESS. I
CAN'T VERIFY THAT, BUT IT'S THE
SAME ARCHITECTURE. SO WHAT YOU
SEE IS THAT FROM THE TOP ROW,
YOU START WITH THE ORIGINAL
IMAGES, AND AS YOU GO DOWN
INCREASINGLY MORE, A SORT OF
ALTERED SAMPLES ARE FED INTO THE
TRAINING. IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE
HOW SMALL THE NUMBERS ARE. 50 OR
100, AND SO ON. IS ENOUGH TO
CONVINCE A MODEL THAT'S BEEN
TRAINED ON MILLIONS OF SAMPLES
THAT A CAT OR A DOG ACTUALLY
HAS, YOU KNOW, FUZZY WHISKERS
AND LOOKS VERY MUCH LIKE MY CAT
AT HOME, SIMILARLY, YOU CAN
TRANSFORM CARS INTO COWS
HAND-BAGS IN THE TOASTERS, THE
LIST GOES ON. RIGHT. NEXT SLIDE
PLEASE, YEAH. YOU CAN ANIMATE
THROUGH THIS WHOLE SLIDE, SO
JUST TO JUST TO FURTHER THIS
ALONG AND I'LL WRAP UP, WE
RELEASED THIS TOOL IN JANUARY OF
THIS YEAR. IN THE FIRST FIVE
DAYS, IT WAS DOWNLOADED A
QUARTER MILLION TIMES BY ARTISTS
GLOBALLY, JUST TO UNDERSCORE THE
TREMENDOUS DEMAND FOR PROTECTION
THAT THERE EXISTS ACROSS THE
GLOBE, THERE ARE NOW COMMUNITIES
ACROSS EVERY CONTINENT THAT ARE,
ARTISTS USING HELPING ARTISTS,
EDUCATING ARTISTS ABOUT USING
GLAZE AND NIGHTSHADE. BUT THIS
IS NOT ENOUGH. THESE KIND OF
TOOLS ARE EXPENSIVE TO RUN, WE
PROVIDE OUR OWN GPU SERVERS IN
THE LAB FOR ARTISTS WHO DON'T,
WHO LACK THE COMPUTE POWER TO
RUN IT THEMSELVES, BUT AGAIN,
IT'S JUST NOT ENOUGH. WE NEED
REGULATIONS AND PROTECTION FROM,
REGULATORS LIKE YOURSELF, YEAH.
AND WE'RE WORKING AND WE'RE
TALKING WITH INDUSTRY PARTNERS
TO BECAUSE THEY TOO ARE ALSO
CONCERNED ABOUT LOSING CONTROL
OF THEIR IP. SO THEY'RE
CONSIDERING USING TOOLS LIKE
NIGHTSHADE IN ORDER TO MAKE
THEIR CONTENT LESS APPEALING TO
AI MODELS. AND I'LL STOP THERE.
THANK YOU. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
WE'LL GO TO, CHAIRWOMAN.
BAUER-KAHAN. FOR HER FIRST
QUESTION. THANK YOU BOTH. AND
DOCTOR ZHAO, I HAVE TO SAY, WHEN
I FIRST LEARNED ABOUT GLAZE AND
NIGHTSHADE A FEW MONTHS AGO, I
WAS CONVINCED THAT WHAT WAS
GOING TO SAVE US WAS SMART
PEOPLE LIKE YOU. MORE TECHNOLOGY
TO COMBAT THE BAD TECHNOLOGY.
BUT NOW YOU'RE SAYING IT'S
REALLY UP TO US SO WE CAN. WE
THINK IT'S UP TO YOU, BUT BUT I
APPRECIATE THAT. I ACTUALLY
THINK WHAT YOU'VE DONE IS
INCREDIBLE. AND I THINK IT
REALLY DOES TAKE BOTH POLICY AND
TECHNOLOGY TO COME AT THIS FROM
EVERY ANGLE. AND I THINK WHAT
YOU'VE PROVIDED TO ARTISTS IS
SO, SO VALUABLE, I WILL NOTE
THAT IT DOESN'T GET AT, WHAT MR.
GEORGE WAS TALKING ABOUT, WHERE
HE'S CONTRACTED OUT HIS IMAGE,
AND NOW IT'S TECHNICALLY LEGALLY
THEIRS TO REPLICATE. SO WE DO
HAVE A LOT TO DO IN THAT SPACE,
EVEN IF WE HAVE THESE
TECHNOLOGIES, QUESTION THOUGH,
YOU I MEAN, YOU'VE DONE AMAZING
THINGS WITH IMAGES. WHERE ARE WE
ON THE IDEA THAT WE COULD DO
THIS WITH, YOU KNOW WHAT I'M
GOING TO ASK? VOICE, SOUND, ETC.
IS A SIMILAR TECHNOLOGY
POSSIBLE? OH, BOY, I THINK SO.
SINCE THE FIRST DAY THAT THE,
THAT WE HAD PRESS COVERING GLAZE
BACK IN FEBRUARY OF 2023, WE'VE
HAD LOTS OF QUESTIONS FROM EVERY
POSSIBLE MODALITY OF HUMAN
CREATIVES, YOU KNOW, ALL THE WAY
GOING TO WRITERS, AUTHORS, YOU
KNOW, MUSICIANS, OF COURSE, ALL
THE ALL THE WAY TO,
CHOREOGRAPHERS AND VOICE ACTORS
AND SO ON. IT IS HARD. EVERY
MODEL ARCHITECTURE IS DIFFERENT,
CERTAINLY DIFFUSION FOR IMAGES
AND TRANSFORMERS FOR TEXT ARE
VERY, VERY DIFFERENT. SO
TRANSLATING WHAT WE DO TO TEXT
IS GOING TO BE VERY DIFFICULT,
ALTERNATIVELY, WE CAN AT LEAST
IT'S MY OBSERVATION THAT I THINK
THE CHALLENGES IN TEXT ARE
DIFFERENT. TEXT IS NOT SO MUCH
ABOUT MIMICRY, BECAUSE UNLESS
YOU'RE JAMES JOYCE OR
SHAKESPEARE, YOU YOUR WRITING IS
PROBABLY NOT THAT RECOGNIZABLE,
OUT OF MILLIONS. BUT I THINK
TEXT AND THE TECH SPACE IS MORE
ABOUT GARBAGE AND SPAM OVER
WHELMING LEGITIMATE TEXT. AND
I'VE SEEN PUBLISHERS CLOSE THEIR
DOORS BECAUSE THEY'RE
OVERWHELMED BY AI ENTRIES. I'VE
SEEN IN WRITING COMPETITIONS
THAT ARE HAVE BEEN HELD YEAR
AFTER YEAR, FALL DOWN AND JUST
QUIT BECAUSE THEY ARE
OVERWHELMED WITH AI COMPETITION
AND JUST AI TEXT GENERATED FROM
PROMPTS, SO I THINK THAT'S A
DIFFERENT CHALLENGE. THERE BUT I
WILL SAY THAT TO THE, YOU KNOW,
IN THE SPIRIT OF THE QUESTION,
WE ARE TRYING, WE HAVE JUST
WRITTEN A PAPER, IT'S UNDER
REVIEW RIGHT NOW IN THE RESEARCH
CONFERENCES, THAT BASICALLY
EXTEND SIMILAR KIND OF TOOLS,
NOT JUST GLAZE, BUT MISSED AND
OTHERS TO VIDEOS ON A FRAME BY
FRAME BASIS. SO THERE'S SOME
HOPE THERE. AUDIO IS HARDER,
SOME OF MY FRIENDS IN THE
RESEARCH COMMUNITY AT WASHINGTON
UNIVERSITY OF SAINT LOUIS LAST
YEAR, LATE LAST YEAR, ACTUALLY
TOOK A SORT OF PAGE FROM WHAT WE
DID, AND THEY ACTUALLY PRODUCED
A THING THAT BASICALLY PROTECTS
THE HUMAN VOICE, THIS IS NOT TO
SAY SINGING OR PERFORMANCES.
THIS IS JUST VOICE ACTING. SO IN
A, IN A VERY, YOU KNOW, STRIPPED
DOWN SENSE, IF YOU WILL, THE
HUMAN VOICE CAN BE PROTECTED,
LIKE GLAZE DOES FOR ART.
HOWEVER, IT HAS ITS CHALLENGES
AS WELL, IN THE ART SPACE, WE
ARE CONCERNED ABOUT ALWAYS
ADDING TOO MUCH ARTIFACTS SUCH
THAT THE ARTIST ACTUALLY FINDS
IT DEGRADING TO THEIR ORIGINAL
WORK. OF COURSE, THAT WOULD BE
SUBOPTIMAL. THAT WOULD BE
DEFEATING THE WHOLE PURPOSE,
SIMILARLY FOR VOICE ACTORS,
THEIR DEMANDS FOR QUALITY OF THE
RECORDING IS SO HIGH THAT THE
LITTLE BLIPS AND CRACKLES IN THE
BACKGROUND THAT CAN SERVE TO
HELP HIDE THIS PROTECTION,
ACTUALLY IS SOMETHING THAT IS
VERY CHALLENGING FOR THEM, SO
THESE ARE TWO SPACES THAT WE
KNOW WE'VE MADE SOME INROADS,
BUT YEAH, THERE'S A LOT MORE
MODALITIES AND A LOT MORE WORK
TO BE DONE. I'VE GIVEN KEYNOTES
TO SOME OF MY RESEARCH FRIENDS
AND, AND HOPEFULLY MANY OF THEM
WILL BE JOINING US IN THE YEARS
AHEAD TO TRY TO DEVELOP SIMILAR
KIND OF PROTECTION TOOLS. BUT I
DO THINK IT HIGHLIGHTS THE NEED
FOR, YOU KNOW, US AS THE PEOPLE
WHO FUND OUR UNIVERSITIES HERE
IN CALIFORNIA TO FOCUS ON
INVESTMENT IN THESE SPACES. I
MEAN, I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS
THAT I'VE STRUGGLED WITH, AS
SOMEONE WHO'S SUPPOSED TO BE
HELPING LEAD THE DIRECTION OF
THE STATE IN ARTIFICIAL
INTELLIGENCE, IS THE TALENT. THE
TALENT POOL IS BEING SUCKED INTO
THE INDUSTRIES THAT ARE THERE TO
MAKE MONEY. AND THAT'S NOT YOUR
GOAL, AND THAT'S WHY YOU'RE
COMING UP WITH THESE TOOLS THAT
ARE SO PROTECTIVE OF HUMANITY.
AND SO IT IS REALLY CRITICAL TO
US THAT WE INVEST IN THE TALENT
AND THE TOOLS TO MAKE SURE THAT
THERE IS SOME COUNTERBALANCE TO
WHAT YOU SPOKE ABOUT EARLIER,
THE FINANCIAL INCENTIVES OF
PRIVATE INDUSTRY. SO SOMETHING
JUST TO POINT OUT AND HIGHLIGHT.
THANK YOU. IF I COULD ADD ONE
SMALL COMMENT TO THIS, JUST TO
ADD ON TO WHAT YOU ALREADY SAID,
WHICH AT THAT POINT I LOVE, IT
IS IMPORTANT TO NOTE THAT GOOGLE
AND OTHER BIG TECH COMPANIES,
PARTICULARLY THE ONES THAT ARE
GENERATING AI, ARE TREMENDOUS
INFLUENTIAL IN ACADEMIA RIGHT
NOW BECAUSE OF THE SHEER AMOUNT
OF MONEY THAT THEY ARE THROWING
OUT AT GRADUATES IN TERMS OF
FELLOWSHIPS, IN TERMS OF GRANTS
TO UNIVERSITIES, IN TERMS OF
CENTERS THAT THEY'RE BUILDING
MANY MILLIONS, MANY, MANY
MILLIONS OF DOLLARS BEING THROWN
AT ACADEMICS. SO IT IS A LOSING
BATTLE TO ACTUALLY FIND
ACADEMICS WHO DO NOT USE
GENERATIVE AI. IT IS A
CHALLENGING, UPHILL BATTLE FOR
ME TO TALK ABOUT ETHICS AND TO
TALK ABOUT DOWNSTREAM
RAMIFICATIONS OF OUR WORK. WHEN
EVERYONE TAKES FELLOWSHIPS AND
WHEN EVERYONE TAKES THESE KIND
OF GRANTS FROM LARGE TECH
COMPANIES, THAT IS SOMETHING
THAT, YOU KNOW, TO YOUR POINT.
YOU KNOW, IF THERE WAS MORE
PUBLIC SUPPORT, THERE WAS MORE
GOVERNMENT SUPPORT THAT WOULD
REALLY ALLEVIATE A TREMENDOUS
AMOUNT OF PRESSURE. MANY OF OUR
STUDENTS SEE THIS AS THE ONLY
WAY THEY PATH FORWARD TO
EMPLOYMENT AND STABLE
EMPLOYMENT. AND THAT IS A THING
THAT WE HAVE TO CHANGE.
OTHERWISE WE WILL MAKE NO
INROADS TOWARDS A MORE EQUITABLE
AND, YOU KNOW, FAIR USE OF THESE
KINDS OF TECHNOLOGIES. YEAH. AND
I THINK THOSE PUBLIC PRIVATE
PARTNERSHIPS THAT YOU'RE
HIGHLIGHTING, IT'S CRITICALLY
IMPORTANT THAT AS WE DO THEM, WE
UNDERSTAND THE MOTIVATION OF
INDUSTRY IN THAT. ONE OF THE
THINGS WE'VE BEEN LOOKING AT
VERY CLOSELY IS THE PRIVATE
PUBLIC PARTNERSHIPS THAT WE'RE
LOOKING AT IN CHEN II WITH
GOVERNMENT, AND THE INCREDIBLE
BENEFIT THAT THESE PRIVATE
COMPANIES WILL GET FROM
CALIFORNIA'S PRIVATE DATA AND
ENSURING THE PROTECTIONS FOR
CALIFORNIANS AS WE ENGAGE IN
THOSE EFFORTS. SO, AGAIN, AS WE
SET UP THOSE PARTNERSHIPS,
MAKING SURE WE'RE PUTTING
SOCIETY FIRST, I THINK IS
CRITICAL. I WANT TO SAY THANK
YOU VERY MUCH. I'M GOING TO
FOREGO ASKING ANY ADDITIONAL
QUESTIONS. NO, IT'S FINE. BUT
WHAT I WANT TO I WOULD LIKE TO
DO IS SEE A SHOW OF HANDS,
BECAUSE WE'RE GOING TO GO TO THE
PUBLIC, ASPECT OF IT, PUBLIC
COMMENTS, YOU GIVE YOU AN
OPPORTUNITY, IS ANYONE IN THE
PUBLIC WISHING? I JUST WANT TO
SEE A SHOW OF HANDS. WHO'S GOING
TO MAKE A COMMENT? WE HAVE ONE.
GREAT. THANK YOU. BECAUSE I WANT
TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE OUT BY
1:00. AND SO I'M GOING TO DO IS
I'M GOING TO ASK, SOME OF OUR
PRESENTERS WHO'VE ALREADY
PRESENTED, AND I NEED YOU TO
LEAVE ME, COME UP AND LEAVE ME
WITH ONE THING. YOU ARE LOOKING
FORWARD THAT THE LEGISLATURE
COULD PUT A GREATER FOCUS ON IN
TERMS OF A SOLUTION. SO LET ME
SAY THAT AGAIN, WE'RE LOOKING
FOR SOLUTIONS. SO IF YOU CAN
THINK OF ONE THING THAT YOU
WOULD LIKE FOR US TO UNDERSCORE
BEFORE WE CONCLUDE, THIS
SEGMENT, I KNOW THAT THE
PROFESSOR'S ALREADY INDICATED,
AND I APPRECIATE I WROTE SOME
COMMENTS DOWN FOR SOLUTION
ORIENTED THINGS FOR OUR NEXT
STEPS. BUT AGAIN, FOR THE
PRESENTERS, ONE THING THAT YOU
WOULD LIKE FOR US, TO CONSIDER
WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT THIS ISSUE
MOVING FORWARD, SO, TATIANA,
WOULD YOU GIVE US ONE THING AND
THEN AGAIN, MR. HORTON, WANT TO
ALSO ANDREW AND ALSO MR. GEORGE,
WHILE YOU'RE THINKING AND MOVING
THIS WAY TO HAVE A SEAT TO WEIGH
IN ON THAT. TATIANA, PLEASE. ONE
THING I THINK WHAT WE'VE BEEN
PUSHING FOR IS TO EXPAND THE
DEFINITION OF DEEPFAKES TO
INCLUDE FORGERIES. FORGERIES?
YEAH. SINCE, FORGERIES CAN BE A
KIND OF DEEPFAKE, IT IMPACTS,
YOU KNOW, BOTH CUSTOMERS AND
PEOPLE PROVIDING THE SERVICE.
AND IT, NEGATIVELY IN WAYS, YOU
KNOW, IF SOMEBODY TAKES MY
STYLE, FOR EXAMPLE, AND PUTS OUT
A PRODUCT THAT LOOKS LIKE MY
WORK AND SOMEBODY BUYS IT
THINKING THEY'RE BUYING AN
AUTHENTIC WORK FROM ME, THAT
HURTS BOTH ME AND THE CUSTOMER.
SO THANK YOU. THANK YOU VERY
MUCH, MR. GEORGE, PLEASE.
CONTRACT CLARITY, SURE. IT'S
HIGHLIGHTED. AND THEN ALSO, THAT
IT EXTENDS POSTHUMOUSLY. THANK
YOU VERY MUCH. TO INCENTIVIZE
HIRING PEOPLE OVER SOFTWARE.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH, DOCTOR
PIERCE, TIARA. HI, YEAH, THE ONE
LAST THOUGHT I'D LIKE TO LEAVE
WITH YOU. IS THAT, CALIFORNIA
SHOULD CONTINUE ITS LEGACY OF
CARING ABOUT ARTISTS RIGHTS
AFTER THEY PASS AWAY, SO THAT
THEIR LEGACIES CAN CONTINUE TO
BE PROTECTED WHEN THEY CAN'T DO
IT THEMSELVES. THANK YOU.
PATRICK, DO YOU WANT TO WAIT?
YES CONSENT AND COMPENSATION
WOULD BE THE THEMATICS THAT I'D
LIKE TO LEAVE WITH. THANK YOU
VERY MUCH. AM I OMITTING ANYONE
THAT WAS A PRESENTER? THANK YOU
VERY, VERY MUCH. WE REALLY
APPRECIATE YOUR COMING OUT AND
GIVING US, A FRUITFUL THOUGHT A
LOT OF INFORMATION AND THE
ROBUST CONVERSATION. SO THANK
YOU VERY MUCH. REALLY APPRECIATE
YOUR TIME TODAY. NEXT WE WILL
OPEN UP THE FLOOR FOR PUBLIC
COMMENTS. IF YOU HAVE A PUBLIC
COMMENT, PLEASE STEP TO THE
MICROPHONE AND PLEASE PROCEED IN
GIVING US A PUBLIC YOUR COMMENT
ON WHAT YOU'VE HEARD OR SEEN
TODAY THUS FAR, PLEASE STATE
YOUR NAME. YES, JULIE BAKER, CEO
OF CALIFORNIA ARTS ADVOCATES. WE
ARE THE LOBBYING ORGANIZATION
FOR THE ARTS, CULTURE AND
CREATIVE INDUSTRIES. AND I'M
LOOKING AROUND AT THE OTHER
LOBBYISTS IN THE ROOM, AND I
JUST WANT TO INVITE US ALL TO
WORK TOGETHER BECAUSE WE ARE AN
ECOSYSTEM. AND MANY OF YOU
PROBABLY STARTED IN THEATER OR
STARTED IN WORKING IN YOUR
COMMUNITY ARTS ORGANIZATIONS AND
THOSE ARE CURRENTLY BEING
THREATENED BY THE GOVERNOR'S MAY
REVISE IN TERMS OF 58% CUTS IN
FUNDING. AND AT A TIME WHEN
WE'RE FACED WITH INCREASED
AUTOMATION, A YOUTH THAT IS
SAYING THERE'S NO POINT IN ME
ENTERING THE CREATIVE INDUSTRIES
. WE NEED TO SEND A SIGNAL TO
OUR YOUTH AND TO OUR COMMUNITIES
THAT WE BELIEVE AND INVEST IN
CREATIVITY. AND THAT IS WHAT
OPPOSING THESE ARTS FUNDING CUTS
WILL DO. AND I WANT TO THANK THE
CHAIR, GIBSON, FOR LEADING IN
THE ASSEMBLY, THE OPPOSITION TO
THESE ARTS FUNDING CUTS. IT'S A
$10 MILLION CUT TO THE STATE
ARTS AGENCY AND A $12.5 MILLION
CUT TO PERFORMING ARTS EQUITABLE
PAYROLL FUND. AND I'LL JUST TELL
YOU THAT THIS IS A SMALL AMOUNT
OF MONEY FOR THE LARGE
CALIFORNIA BUDGET. BUT A HUGE
AMOUNT OF MONEY FOR ARTS AND
CULTURE. SO WE ASK ALL THE
MEMBERS HERE TODAY TO JOIN CHAIR
GIBSON IN OPPOSING THESE CUTS.
THANK YOU. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
IS THERE ANOTHER WITNESS FROM
THE PUBLIC WHO WOULD LIKE TO
GIVE TESTIMONY, HEARING AND
SEEING? NONE, I WANT TO SAY
THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I WANTED TO
HAVE OUR CHAIRWOMAN TO HAVE ANY
CLOSING REMARKS, AND I WANT TO
THANK ALL THE MEMBERS FOR COMING
BOTH COMMITTEES FOR BEING PART
OF THIS ROBUST CONVERSATION. I
JUST WANT TO THANK CHAIR GIBSON
AGAIN FOR CONVENING THIS TO ALL
OF OUR PANELISTS. I LEARNED A
TON. I HOPE EVERYONE ELSE DID AS
WELL. AND I'M JUST GOING TO
CLOSE WITH MY TRUE EARNEST
BELIEF THAT I DON'T BELIEVE
CHEN. I COULD EVER REPLACE THE
INCREDIBLE ARTISTS THAT WE'VE
SEEN TODAY AND OTHERS. I THINK
CONSUMERS WILL DEMAND MORE, BUT
LET'S MAKE SURE THAT
GOVERNMENT'S PUSHING IN THAT
DIRECTION, MISS MCKENNA. OKAY,
WELL, AGAIN, I WANT TO THANK THE
STAFF AND AGAIN, EVERYONE, WHO
PRESENTED BEFORE US TODAY AND
CERTAINLY THANK OUR CHAIRWOMAN
FROM THE PRIVACY, FOR BEING HERE
AND BEING PARTNER WITH ME IN
TERMS OF HAVING THIS ROBUST
CONVERSATION. YOU HAVE
ENLIGHTENED US WITH A NUMBER OF
CONVERSATIONS TO HAVE, AND ALSO
SOLUTIONS, AS WE LOOK AT HOW DO
WE MOVE FORWARD LEGISLATIVELY
THROUGH BY WAY OF POLICY
CONVERSATION, YOU HAVE GIVEN US
A LOT TO LOOK FORWARD TO MOVING
FORWARD, AND YOU WILL MAY BE
AMAZED BY, THERE'S A NUMBER OF
TVS ON IN THIS ON THIS BUILDING
AND THEIR STAFFS ARE WATCHING ON
BOTH THE SENATE AND ASSEMBLY
MEMBERS. THEIR STAFFS ARE
WATCHING THIS, AND THEY'RE ALSO
WEIGHING IN ON THIS
CONVERSATION. AND WE'LL BE
WEIGHING IN ON THIS CONVERSATION
. BUT YOU'VE EDUCATED THEM AS
WELL IN THIS SPACE. AND WE WANT
TO SAY THANK YOU VERY, VERY
MUCH, FOR THIS CONVERSATION. AND
THAT CONCLUDES EVERYTHING THAT
WE HAVE. BUT THANK YOU VERY
MUCH. AND THIS HEARING STANDS
ADJOURNED.