GOOD AFTERNOON
EVERYONE. WE ARE CONVENING AS
THE ENVIRONMENTAL SAFETY AND
TOXIC MATERIALS COMMITTEE.
WELCOME. GREAT TO START MY FIRST
HEARING AS CHAIR. EXCITED ABOUT
IT. SO WE'RE GOING TO READ SOME
INITIAL PRELIMINARY RULES.
WELCOME TO MY VICE CHAIR AS
WELL. AND I ACTUALLY BELIEVE WE
DO HAVE A QUORUM NOW. THE
ASSEMBLY HAS RULES TO MAKE SURE
WE MAINTAIN ORDER AND RUN FAIR
AND EFFICIENT HEARINGS. WE APPLY
THESE RULES CONSISTENTLY TO ALL
PEOPLE THAT PARTICIPATE IN OUR
PROCEEDINGS, IN ORDER TO
FACILITATE THE GOAL OF HEARING
FROM AS MANY MEMBERS OF THE
PUBLIC WITHIN THE LIMITS OF OUR
TIME, WE WILL NOT PERMIT CONDUCT
THAT DISRUPTS, DISTURBS, OR
OTHERWISE IMPEDES THE ORDERLY
CONDUCT OF LEGISLATIVE
PROCEEDINGS. OUR COMMITTEE'S
POLICIES FOR TESTIMONY IN
TODAY'S HEARING ARE AS FOLLOWS.
PRIMARY WITNESS TESTIMONY IS
LIMITED TO TWO WITNESSES IN
SUPPORT AND TWO IN OPPOSITION.
EACH WITNESS WILL HAVE TWO
MINUTES TO GIVE THEIR TESTIMONY.
ALL ADDITIONAL WITNESSES WILL BE
LIMITED TO STATING THEIR NAME,
ORGANIZATION. IF THEY REPRESENT
ONE AND THEIR POSITION ON THE
BILL. I ALSO WANT TO NOTE THAT
WE ARE ACCEPTING WRITTEN
TESTIMONY THROUGH THE POSITION
LETTER PORTAL ON THE COMMITTEE'S
WEBSITE. WE WILL HEAR THREE
MEASURES TODAY WITH FIVE
MEASURES ON CONSENT. MADAM
SECRETARY, PLEASE CALL THE ROLL
TO ESTABLISH A QUORUM. FOR THE
PURPOSES OF ESTABLISHING A
QUORUM, I WILL CALL THE ROLL.
CONNOLLY. HERE. CONNOLLY. HERE.
HARDWICK. HERE. HARDWICK. HERE.
BAUER. KHN. CASTILLO. LEE.
MCKENNA. HERE. MCKENNA. HERE.
PAPPIN. HERE. HAPPEN HERE. THANK
YOU. AND WHY DON'T WE GO AHEAD
AND TAKE THIS TIME TO ADOPT
COMMITTEE RULES? THESE RULES
WERE DISTRIBUTED TO EACH MEMBER
OF THE COMMITTEE FOR THEIR
REVIEW PRIOR TO THIS HEARING. DO
I HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND TO
ADOPT THE COMMITTEE RULES? A
MOTION. SO MOVED. SECOND.
MOTION. ASSEMBLY MEMBER.
MCKENNA. SECOND PAPPIN. MADAM
SECRETARY, PLEASE CALL THE ROLL.
FOR THE PURPOSES OF ADOPTING THE
COMMITTEE RULES, I WILL CALL THE
ROLL. CONNOLLY. CONNOLLY. AYE.
HARDWICK. AYE. HARDWICK. AYE.
BAUER-KAHAN. CASTILLO. LEE.
MCKENNA. MCKENNA. AYE. PAPPIN. I
MEAN, YEAH, I HAPPEN I. HERE WE
GO. THANK YOU. YEAH. OKAY. SO
THOSE COMMITTEE RULES HAVE BEEN
ADOPTED. THANK YOU. IF THE
ASSEMBLY MEMBER WILL INDULGE,
WHY DON'T WE JUST QUICKLY ALSO
DO THE CONSENT CALENDAR? DO WE
HAVE A MOTION? AND SECOND, ON
THE CONSENT CALENDAR. SO MOVED.
SECOND. MCKINNON. MOTION AND
SECOND. PLEASE CALL THE ROLL. ON
THE PROPOSED CONSENT CALENDAR
ARE ITEMS NUMBER FOUR, AB 599,
AUTHORED BY ASSEMBLY MEMBER
CONNOLLY AB. OR I'M SORRY, ITEM
NUMBER FIVE, AB 696, AUTHORED BY
ASSEMBLY MEMBER RANSOM. ITEM
NUMBER SIX AB 96 ONE, AUTHORED
BY ASSEMBLY MEMBER ÁVILA FARÍAS.
ITEM NUMBER SEVEN AB 1440,
AUTHORED BY THE COMMITTEE AB.
ITEM NUMBER SIX, AB 1459,
AUTHORED BY THE COMMITTEE. EACH
BILL WITH THE MOTION DO PASS TO
THE COMMITTEE ON APPROPRIATIONS.
CONNOLLY, I. CONNOLLY, I.
HARDWICK, I. HARDWICK, I.
BAUER-KAHAN. CASTILLO. LEE.
MCKENNA I. MCKENNA. I PAPIN I
PAPIN I. THANK YOU. THE CONSENT
CALENDAR IS ADOPTED. ALL RIGHT.
WE'RE GOING TO MOVE TO FILE ITEM
TWO. ASSEMBLY MEMBER RODRIGUEZ
AB 638, DEALING WITH STORMWATER.
ASSEMBLY MEMBER, YOU MAY BEGIN.
THANK YOU. CHAIR. AND MEMBERS OF
THE COMMITTEE. TODAY, I AM PROUD
TO PRESENT AB 638, A MEASURE
THAT WILL HELP GUIDE OUR STATE'S
PROJECTS ON STORMWATER CAPTURE
FOR IRRIGATION USE. CLIMATE
CHANGE IS AFFECTING WEATHER
PATTERNS WORLDWIDE, RESULTING IN
DEVASTATING CONSEQUENCES AND
CHALLENGES TO COMMUNITIES IN
CALIFORNIA. THE PATTERN IN
NUMBER OF DROUGHT YEARS AND
NON-DROUGHT YEARS BRINGS US
WATER SCARCITY CHALLENGES. OVER
THE LAST DECADE, WE HAVE SEEN
SIGNIFICANT INVESTMENTS IN
STORMWATER CAPTURE PROJECTS AT
THE LOCAL, STATE, AND FEDERAL
LEVEL. YET DESPITE THESE
INVESTMENTS, NO STATE GUIDANCE
EXISTS ON CAPTURING AND
UTILIZING URBAN STORMWATER FOR
NON-POTABLE USES LIKE
IRRIGATION. AB THREE. AB 638
DIRECTS THE STATE WATER BOARD
RESOURCES. WATER. SORRY. STATE
WATER BOARD RESOURCES CONTROL
BOARD TO DEVELOP GUIDELINES FOR
CAPTURE AND USE OF STORMWATER
FOR IRRIGATION OF URBAN PUBLIC
LANDS. CLEAR GUIDANCE IS
ESSENTIAL TO PROVIDE CERTAINTY
ON HOW TO SAFELY BUILD AND
OPERATE STORMWATER CAPTURE AND
USE PROJECTS. THE GUIDANCE
CREATED BY AB 638 WILL OUTLINE
BEST MANAGEMENT PRACTICES FOR
SAFELY USING STORMWATER
IRRIGATION ON PARKS AND OTHER
VIABLE PUBLIC LANDS. SPEAKING
TODAY WITH ME IN SUPPORT OF AB
638 IS MARK GOULD, DIRECTOR OF
WATER SCARCITY SOLUTIONS WITH
THE NATURAL RESOURCES DEFENSE
COUNCIL. WELCOME. THANK YOU.
GOOD AFTERNOON, CHAIR CONNOLLY
AND COMMITTEE MEMBERS. AS A
POINT OF BACKGROUND, I'VE WORKED
ON WATER SUPPLY, WATER QUALITY
AND COASTAL ISSUES FOR OVER 35
YEARS IN ROLES RANGING FROM
RUNNING THE ENVIRONMENTAL GROUP
HEAL THE BAY FOR 20 YEARS TO
ASSOCIATE VICE CHANCELLOR FOR
ENVIRONMENT AND SUSTAINABILITY
AT UCLA, TO SERVING AS DEPUTY
SECRETARY FOR COAST AND OCEAN
POLICY IN GOVERNOR NEWSOM'S
FIRST TERM. THE IMPACTS OF
CLIMATE CHANGE ON CALIFORNIA'S
WATER SUPPLY HAVE BEEN
EXTRAORDINARY, WITH RECORD
DROUGHT FOLLOWED BY NEAR RECORD
RAINFALL. THE GOVERNOR'S 2022
WATER SCARCITY STRATEGY
HIGHLIGHTED THE NEED FOR A MORE
CLIMATE RESILIENT WATER
PORTFOLIO, INCLUDING BETTER
STORMWATER CAPTURE AND USE TO
REDUCE POTABLE WATER DEMAND TO
OFFSET DECREASED WATER SUPPLIES
OF AN ESTIMATED 10% BY 2040 FROM
THE SIERRAS AND THE COLORADO. AB
638 FILLS A GLARING GAP IN
CALIFORNIA'S URBAN STORMWATER
MANAGEMENT. CURRENTLY, THE STATE
WATER BOARD PROVIDES NO GUIDANCE
ON HOW TO CAPTURE, TREAT, AND
REUSE STORMWATER FOR IRRIGATION
OF URBAN PUBLIC LANDS, INCLUDING
PARKS, PARKWAYS, GOLF COURSES,
CEMETERIES, MEDIAN STRIPS, AND
INSTITUTIONAL NONFUNCTIONAL
TURF. AS A RESULT, PRECIOUS
POTABLE WATER SUPPLIES ARE BEING
USED TO IRRIGATE TURF. AND IN
THE CITY OF LA, WE HAVE FOR
PROJECTS THAT COST AN ESTIMATED
$50 MILLION THAT WILL THAT WERE
BUILT FOR THIS PURPOSE, AND THEY
ARE NOT BEING USED FOR PARK AND
GOLF COURSE IRRIGATION, BECAUSE
OUR LOCAL DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC
HEALTH HAS REQUIRED THAT
CAPTURED RAINWATER BE TREATED TO
DRINKING WATER STANDARDS. ALSO,
OVER $1 BILLION IN FUNDS FROM
THE LA COUNTY SAFE CLEAN WATER
PROGRAM HAVE BEEN INVESTED IN
THE LAST FEW YEARS, BUT NOT ON
STORMWATER CAPTURE PROJECTS.
WITH GUIDANCE FROM THE STATE
WATER BOARD ON HOW TO CAPTURE
URBAN STORMWATER, TREAT IT,
INCLUDING DISINFECTION, AND USE
IT SAFELY TO IRRIGATE PUBLIC
LANDS. THERE WILL BE LESS
UNCERTAINTY AND PROJECT APPROVAL
DELAYS, AND THESE CRITICAL
PROJECTS WILL BE BUILT MORE
FREQUENTLY IN THE NEAR FUTURE.
PLEASE SUPPORT AB 638. WE NEED
THIS GUIDANCE TO BE DEVELOPED AS
SOON AS POSSIBLE TO REDUCE
POTABLE WATER DEMAND AND TO
ENCOURAGE LOCAL, STATE AND
FEDERAL FUNDING TO BE INVESTED
IN THIS CLIMATE RESILIENT
APPROACH TO SUSTAINABLE WATER
MANAGEMENT. THANK YOU FOR THE
OPPORTUNITY TO TESTIFY. THANK
YOU. DO WE HAVE ANY REMAINING
MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC WHO WISH
TO INDICATE THEIR SUPPORT FOR
THIS MEASURE? PLEASE COME ON UP.
GOOD AFTERNOON. I'M LEE GARCIA.
SPEAKING ON BEHALF OF SAN
FRANCISCO BAYKEEPER AND HEAL THE
BAY IN SUPPORT. HELLO, I'M
REBECCA FUOCO WITH THE GREEN
SCIENCE POLICY INSTITUTE. AND
SUPPORT. SANTIAGO RODRIGUEZ WITH
CALIFORNIA ENVIRONMENTAL VOTERS
IN SUPPORT. HI. GOOD AFTERNOON.
APRIL ROBINSON WITH A VOICE FOR
CHOICE ADVOCACY AND SUPPORT. DO
WE HAVE ANYONE IN OPPOSITION TO
AB 638? SEEING NONE, ARE THERE
ANY QUESTIONS FROM COMMITTEE
MEMBERS? BRINGING IT BACK.
ASSEMBLYMEMBER'S. YES. ASSEMBLY
MEMBER I WOULD JUST LIKE TO SAY
I AM SO PROUD OF YOU ABOUT THIS
BILL. THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT WE
NEED. I LOVE RECYCLING, SO TO
TAKE TO GET OUR WATER AND USE IT
ON PUBLIC LAND, TO WATER OUR
GRASS AND KEEP OUR GOLF COURSES
UP, IT'S GOING TO BE AMAZING. SO
THANK YOU FOR THE BILL AND I'D
LIKE TO BE A COAUTHOR. ASSEMBLY
MEMBER. YES. THANK YOU, MISTER
CHAIR. AND I JUST WANT TO AGREE
WITH MY COLLEAGUE FROM LOS
ANGELES. I THINK THIS IS REALLY
THE SMART, ALL OF THE ABOVE
APPROACH WE NEED TO WATER. I
WILL SAY I WOULD LIKE TO GET RID
OF THE MEDIAN NONFUNCTIONAL
TURF. THAT IS MY OPINION. BUT
THE GOLF COURSES AND OTHER
THINGS, ESPECIALLY IN MY
DISTRICT, WHICH IS WILDLAND
URBAN INTERFACE, IS PART OF OUR
PLAN TO SLOW THE SPREAD OF FIRE.
AND THOSE LANDS ARE CRITICAL,
AND WE NEED TO KEEP THEM WATERED
IN ORDER TO EXECUTE OUR FIRE
PREVENTION PLANS. AND SO HAVING
A WAY TO USE THIS WATER TO DO SO
SAFELY, SO THAT WE'RE REMOVING
WHAT'S COMING OFF THE TIRES AND
THE OTHER THINGS THAT CAN CAUSE
TOXINS IN OUR PARKS, I THINK IS
CRITICAL. SO I WOULD ALSO LIKE
TO BE ADDED AS A COAUTHOR IF
YOU'LL HAVE ME. YES. I WOULD
LOVE TO HAVE YOU BOTH. THANK
YOU. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR
COMMENTS FROM THE DÍAS? OKAY.
WITH THAT, WOULD YOU LIKE TO
CLOSE? JUST THANK YOU, CHAIR AND
MEMBERS, FOR HEARING THIS BILL
TODAY AND I RESPECTFULLY ASK FOR
YOUR AYE VOTE. THANK YOU. AND
REALLY THANK YOU FOR BRINGING
THE MEASURE FORWARD. THIS DOES
HAVE A CHAIR. I RECOMMENDATION
WITH THAT. WHY DON'T WE CALL THE
ROLL. OH WE NEED A MOTION. OH,
SECOND. MOTION BY BAUER-KAHAN
SECOND. MCKENNA, PLEASE CALL THE
ROLL. THIS IS FOR FILE ITEM
NUMBER TWO AB. 638, AUTHORED BY
ASSEMBLY MEMBER CELESTE
RODRIGUEZ. THE MOTION IS DUE
PASS TO THE COMMITTEE OF
APPROPRIATIONS. CONNOLLY, A,
CONNOLLY I, HARDWICK I HADWIG I
BAUER I BAUER K, HÌNH I
CASTILLO. LEE MCKENNA I MCKENNA
I PAPPIN I PAPPIN I THAT
MEASURES OUT. THANK YOU. THANK
YOU. THANK YOU. OKAY. WE'RE
GOING TO MOVE BACK TO FILE ITEM
ONE. ASSEMBLY MEMBER PAPPIN AB
60 DEALING WITH COSMETIC SAFETY.
COME ON UP. GOOD AFTERNOON,
CHAIR AND MEMBERS. HAVEN'T WE
ALL HAD A LITTLE TOO MUCH MUSK
LATELY? WELL, THAT'S WHAT THIS
BILL SEEKS TO ADDRESS. BUT IT'S
MUSK IN THE ENVIRONMENT. SO AB
60, THE MUSK REDUCTION ACT IS
ALL ABOUT HAVING A LITTLE LESS
MUSK IN THE ENVIRONMENT. AB 60
WILL PROTECT CALIFORNIANS HEALTH
AND ENVIRONMENT BY BANNING
SYNTHETIC NITRO MUSKS IN
COSMETICS AND PERSONAL CARE
PRODUCTS. CALIFORNIA USED.
CALIFORNIANS USE PERSONAL CARE
PRODUCTS LIKE SOAPS, PERFUMES,
SHAMPOOS AND DEODORANTS EVERY
DAY, OFTEN WITHOUT REALIZING
THEY CONTAIN HARMFUL SYNTHETIC
FRAGRANCE CHEMICALS. ONE SUCH
GROUP OF CHEMICALS, SYNTHETIC
NITRO MUSKS, HAVE BEEN LINKED TO
SERIOUS HEALTH RISKS. THESE
COMPOUNDS BUILD UP IN THE BODY
OVER TIME AND INTERFERE WITH
HORMONE FUNCTION, PARTICULARLY
AFFECTING WOMEN'S REPRODUCTIVE
HEALTH. STUDIES HAVE HAVE
ASSOCIATED EXPOSURE TO NITRO
MUSKS WITH EARLY PUBERTY IN
YOUNG GIRLS, WHICH HAS LIFELONG
NEGATIVE HEALTH IMPACTS.
INCREASED CASES OF
ENDOMETRIOSIS, OVARIAN FAILURE,
MENSTRUAL IRREGULARITIES AND
INFERTILITY, AND INCREASED
GROWTH OF BREAST CANCER CELLS.
BEYOND THEIR HEALTH RISKS. NITRO
MUSKS ARE ALSO MAJOR AND A MAJOR
ENVIRONMENTAL CONCERN. THESE
CHEMICALS DON'T BREAK DOWN
EASILY AND HAVE BEEN FOUND IN
WATERWAYS, SOIL AND EVEN MARINE
LIFE, CONTRIBUTING TO LONG TERM
CONTAMINATION OF OUR ECOSYSTEMS.
DESPITE THESE RISKS, THE US HAS
YET TO REGULATE NITRO MUSKS,
WHILE OTHER COUNTRIES, INCLUDING
CANADA AND THOSE IN THE EUROPEAN
UNION, HAVE ALREADY RESTRICTED
THEIR USE. AB 60 WILL CLOSE THIS
GAP BY HEAVILY RESTRICTING THE
USE OF NITRO MUSKS, THEREBY
REDUCING EXPOSURE, PREVENTING
FURTHER ENVIRONMENTAL
CONTAMINATION AND ALIGNING
CALIFORNIA WITH GLOBAL HEALTH
STANDARDS. WITH ME TODAY TO
TESTIFY IN SUPPORT IS RYAN
SPENCER. ON BEHALF OF THE
ENVIRONMENTAL WORKING GROUP. MR.
SPENCER, WELCOME. THANK YOU, MR.
CHAIR. RYAN SPENCER, THE
ENVIRONMENTAL WORKING GROUP, AS
MENTIONED BY THE AUTHOR. THIS
BILL ADDRESSES A CRITICAL GAP IN
THE CALIFORNIA'S CHEMICAL SAFETY
REGULATIONS BY BANNING NITRO
MUSKS, THE SYNTHETIC FRAGRANCE
COMPOUNDS FOUND IN SOAPS,
PERFUMES AND DEODORANTS. THESE
CHEMICALS ARE NOT JUST
UNNECESSARY, THEY'RE DANGEROUS
AND WELL DOCUMENTED IN THE
SCIENTIFIC LITERATURE AS
PERSISTENT BIOACCUMULATIVE
TOXINS. MULTIPLE PEER REVIEWED
STUDIES HAVE SHOWN THAT NITRO
MUSKS MUSKS ARE RESISTANT TO
ENVIRONMENTAL DEGRADATION. THEY
ACCUMULATE IN AQUATIC ORGANISMS,
HAVE BEEN DETECTED IN BREAST
MILK AND ADIPOSE TISSUE, AND ARE
FREQUENTLY FOUND IN INDOOR AIR
AND HOUSEHOLD DUSTS. AFTER
PERSONAL USE, THESE
ENVIRONMENTALLY PERSISTENT
POLLUTANTS THEN PASS THROUGH THE
SEWAGE TREATMENT PLANTS THROUGH
THEIR MISSION INTO THE
ENVIRONMENT. EVEN MORE
CONCERNING IS THEIR ROLE AS
ENDOCRINE DISRUPTORS. THESE
CHEMICALS INTERFERE WITH HORMONE
SIGNALING AT EXTREMELY LOW DOSES
AND ARE ASSOCIATED, AS THE
AUTHOR MENTIONED, WITH THE
REPRODUCTIVE DISORDERS ALTER
PUBERTAL TIMING, ENDOMETRIOSIS,
AND INFERTILITY. THE EU HAS. THE
EUROPEAN UNION HAS BANNED NITRO
MUSK SINCE THE EARLY 2000. THEY
PUT PUBLIC HEALTH AHEAD OF
PROFITS AND REMOVE THESE
CHEMICALS FROM CONSUMER
PRODUCTS. CALIFORNIA HAS A PROUD
LEGACY OF ENVIRONMENTAL
LEADERSHIP AND THIS SHOULD BE NO
EXCEPTION. WE URGE YOUR AYE VOTE
ON AB 60 AND THANK THE AUTHOR
FOR INTRODUCING THIS IMPORTANT
MEASURE. APPRECIATE. DO WE HAVE
ANY REMAINING MEMBERS OF THE
PUBLIC WHO WISH TO INDICATE
SUPPORT FOR THE MEASURE? PLEASE
COME FORWARD. GOOD AFTERNOON.
MR. GOOD AFTERNOON, MISTER
CHAIR. MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE,
SHARON GONSALVES, ON BEHALF OF
THE CITIES OF SAN MATEO AND
SANTA ROSA IN SUPPORT. THANK
YOU. THAT'S MY CITY. I'M
SANTIAGO WITH CALIFORNIA
ENVIRONMENTAL VOTERS IN SUPPORT.
JAYLA BURTON WITH WOMEN'S VOICES
FOR THE EARTH IN SUPPORT. HI.
APRIL ROBINSON AGAIN WITH THE
VOICE FOR CHOICE ADVOCACY AND
SUPPORT. GABRIELLA FAZIO WITH
SIERRA CLUB CALIFORNIA.
APOLOGIES, WE DIDN'T GET OUR
LETTER AND LETTER IN IN TIME,
BUT WE'RE HERE FOR SUPPORT.
GREAT. THANK YOU. DO WE HAVE
ANYONE IN OPPOSITION TO AB 60?
NOT SEEING ANYONE COME FORWARD,
LET'S BRING IT BACK TO THE
COMMITTEE. QUESTIONS? COMMENTS?
I JUST HAVE TWO. SO I JUST
LOOKED IT UP AND CHANEL NUMBER
18 HAS MUSK IN IT. AND SO WHAT
HAPPENS TO THAT? DOES IT GET
CANCELED. LIKE IF THEY PULLED
THE INGREDIENTS OUT. THIS IS
JUST A QUESTION. YEAH I DON'T
THINK IT GETS CANCELED PER SE.
MY GOD, I WOULDN'T WANT TO
CONTRIBUTE TO THAT. BUT IT WOULD
BAN THIS SUBSTANCE. AND IT'S
BANNED IN 39 COUNTRIES,
INCLUDING CHINA. SO I WOULD
VENTURE TO GUESS THAT IT'LL
IT'LL COME OUT AND THEY WILL
FIND A SUBSTITUTE. IT'S MY
UNDERSTANDING THERE'S SOMETHING
LIKE 29,000 OTHER THINGS THAT,
THAT A MANUFACTURER COULD CHOOSE
FROM TO MAKE THIS REPLACEMENT.
SO IT'S NOT GOING TO BE TERRIBLY
ONEROUS EITHER. SO I THINK IT'S
JUST GOING TO GET REPLACED. IF I
WERE IF I WERE CHANEL. THANK
YOU. FURTHER QUESTIONS OR
COMMENTS. NOT SEEN ANY.
ASSEMBLYMEMBER'S YOU MAY CLOSE.
I JUST WOULD LIKE TO ACKNOWLEDGE
THAT MY OFFICE HAS BEEN IN
CONTACT WITH VARIOUS
STAKEHOLDERS, AND WE'VE HAD
REALLY ROBUST CONVERSATIONS. AND
SO WE FEEL THAT THE BILL WILL BE
SUCCESSFUL. YEAH. AND I WAS
GOING TO I APPRECIATE THAT. I
WAS GOING TO NOTE THAT AS WELL.
MY UNDERSTANDING IS THERE ARE
SOME ONGOING CONVERSATIONS
HAPPENING. PLEASE KEEP THE
COMMITTEE INFORMED AS
DISCUSSIONS PROGRESS. I AM
RECOMMENDING AN AYE VOTE. AND
WITH THAT, DO I HAVE A MOTION
AND SECOND. SO MOVED. MCKINNON.
MOVE. I'LL SECOND. ALL RIGHT, I
WILL ACTUALLY. YEAH. CHAIR. WILL
SECOND. PLEASE CALL THE ROLL.
THIS IS FOR FILE ITEM ONE, AB
60, AUTHORED BY ASSEMBLY MEMBER
PAPIN. THE MOTION IS DUE PASSED
TO THE FLOOR. CONNOLLY.
CONNOLLY. I HAD WICK NOT VOTING.
HARDWICK NOT VOTING.
BAUER-KAHAN. CASTILLO. LEE.
MCKENNA. HI. MCKINNON. AYE. MY
APOLOGIES. LEE. HI, LEE, AYE.
PAPIN I PAPIN I OKAY, I THINK WE
HAVE FOUR, SO THAT IS OUT. THANK
YOU. THANK YOU. WE'RE GOING TO
MOVE TO FILE ITEM THREE AB 916.
ASSEMBLY MEMBER LEE, WHO HAS
ARRIVED. AND THIS DEALS WITH
ANTIBACTERIAL SOAPS AND BODY
WASHES. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU
MISTER. THANK YOU, MISTER CHAIR.
AND MEMBERS, I'D LIKE TO THANK
THE COMMITTEE FOR THEIR HARD
WORK AND THOUGHTFUL ANALYSIS ON
THIS BILL. AB 916 WILL BAN THE
SALE OF CONSUMER HAND SOAPS AND
BODY WASHES THAT CONTAIN BENZYL
CHLORIDE. BENZYL TONY CHLORIDE,
AND CHLOROXYLENOL. THREE
CHEMICALS THAT I STRUGGLE TO
PRONOUNCE. BUT UNDERSTANDABLY,
THE FDA HAS A LOT OF CONCERNS
ABOUT THESE PRODUCTS CHEMICALS.
THE FDA HAS ALREADY DETERMINED
THAT PRODUCTS WITH THESE
INGREDIENTS PROVIDE NO ADDED
HEALTH BENEFITS OVER REGULAR
SOAP AND WATER, YET THEY REMAIN
ON STORE SHELVES, MISLEADING
CONSUMERS WITH MARKETING THAT
ANTIBACTERIAL SOAPS ARE MORE
EFFECTIVE IN PREVENTING ILLNESS,
EVEN THOUGH THAT'S NOT THE CASE.
IN 2016, THE FDA BANNED 19 OUT
OF 22 ANTIBACTERIAL CHEMICALS
FROM SOAPS, BUT PUSHED OFF
RULEMAKING OF THE REMAINING
THREE IN RESPONSE TO COMMENTS
FROM MANUFACTURERS GIVING THE
CLEANING PRODUCTS INDUSTRY ONE
YEAR TO PROVIDE SAFETY AND
EFFICACY DATA. THAT WAS EIGHT
YEARS AGO. EIGHT YEARS LATER
TODAY, THERE HAS BEEN NO
CONCLUSIVE EVIDENCE FROM THE
INDUSTRY, AND BOTH THE FDA AND
CDC HAVE REPEATEDLY ADVISED THAT
PEOPLE USE PLAIN SOAP AND WATER
TO WASH THEIR HANDS. THE
CHEMICALS IN ANTIBACTERIAL SOAPS
ARE LINKED TO SKIN IRRITATION,
RESPIRATORY ISSUES, AND
DEVELOPMENTAL TOXICITY. IN
ADDITION, THESE CHEMICALS ENTER
AND REMAIN IN WATER, SOIL, AND
SEDIMENT AND EVENTUALLY MAKE
THEIR WAY INTO THE WATER SUPPLY
NETWORK AND FOOD CHAIN. THE
OVERUSE OF ANTIBACTERIAL
CHEMICALS ALSO CONTRIBUTES TO
ANTIBIOTIC RESISTANCE. A GLOBAL
GROWING CRISIS. THE SCIENCE
SHOWS THAT REGULAR SOAP AND
WATER, WHEN USED PROPERLY,
REMOVE 99.9% OF PATHOGENS
WITHOUT ANY UNNECESSARY HEALTH
RISKS, AND ANTIBACTERIAL SOAPS
ARE SIMPLY A MARKETING TACTIC.
COLLEAGUES. THIS BILL IS A
SCIENCE BACKED COMMON SENSE.
MEASURES PROTECT CALIFORNIANS
FROM EXPOSURE TO INEFFECTIVE AND
POTENTIALLY HARMFUL CHEMICALS IN
EVERYDAY PRODUCTS. BY SUPPORTING
THIS BILL, WE ARE ENSURING THE
PUBLIC HEALTH AND ENVIRONMENTAL
SAFETY COME BEFORE COME BEFORE
MISLEADING MARKETING AND
INDUSTRY PROFITS. RESPECTFULLY
ASK FOR YOUR VOTE WHEN THE TIME
COMES TO MAKE SURE CALIFORNIA
HAS A STRONG TRACK RECORD OF
LEADING THE NATION ON CONSUMER
AND ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTIONS.
AND WITH ME TODAY, I'D LIKE TO
INTRODUCE REBECCA FUKO FROM THE
GREEN SCIENCE POLICY INSTITUTE
AND NORA ANGELES FROM CHILDREN
NOW. HI. WELCOME. I'M REBECCA Þ.
YEAH, I'M REBECCA FUOCO OF THE
GREEN SCIENCE POLICY INSTITUTE.
I HAVE A MASTER'S IN
ENVIRONMENTAL HEALTH FROM UC
BERKELEY. I'VE BEEN WORKING IN
THE ENVIRONMENTAL HEALTH FIELD
FOR 15 YEARS, AND I'M CURRENTLY
OBTAINING MY DOCTORATE AT JOHNS
HOPKINS WITH A DISSERTATION ON
ANTIMICROBIALS. I STRONGLY
ENDORSE THE SAFER SOAP ACT, THE
US CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL
AND PREVENTION SAYS, I QUOTE,
STUDIES HAVE NOT FOUND ANY ADDED
HEALTH BENEFIT FROM USING
ANTIBACTERIAL SOAP. THEIR
INGREDIENTS MAY NOT BE SAFE AND
MAY CONTRIBUTE TO ANTIBIOTIC
RESISTANCE. END QUOTE. IN 2023,
OUR INSTITUTE LED A MAJOR PEER
REVIEWED PAPER ON QUATERNARY
AMMONIUM COMPOUNDS, A CHEMICAL
CLASS WHICH INCLUDES TWO OF THE
THREE CHEMICALS ADDRESSED BY
THIS BILL. THE PAPER CONCLUDED
THAT FOR CONSUMER USES, SUCH AS
OVER-THE-COUNTER HAND SOAP,
THESE CHEMICALS ARE MORE HARMFUL
THAN HELPFUL. ON TOP OF THE
FALSE SENSE OF SECURITY THESE
PRODUCTS MAY PROVIDE IS THE
MOUNTING EVIDENCE OF HEALTH
HARMS. QUATERNARY AMMONIUM
COMPOUNDS CAN BE ABSORBED FROM
SOAP INTO OUR BODIES, AND HAVE
BEEN LINKED TO REDUCED
FERTILITY, ASTHMA AND
NEUROLOGICAL PROBLEMS. THE OTHER
INGREDIENT, CHLOROXYLENOL, IS A
POTENTIAL HORMONE DISRUPTOR AND
IS NEUROTOXIC TO FISH. NUMEROUS
STUDIES DOCUMENT THESE
CHEMICALS, INDUCING RESISTANCE
IN BACTERIA NOT JUST TO THE
CHEMICALS THEMSELVES, BUT TO
CRITICAL ANTIBIOTICS AS WELL. IN
THE US, THERE ARE ALREADY MORE
THAN 2.8 MILLION ANTIMICROBIAL
RESISTANT INFECTIONS EACH YEAR
THAT RESULT IN TENS OF THOUSANDS
OF DEATHS. IN SUMMARY, BOTH THE
FDA AND CDC SAY THERE IS NO
EVIDENCE THAT ANTIBACTERIAL
SOAPS HAVE ANY BENEFIT OVER
PLAIN SOAP FOR CONSUMERS AND
ACTIVELY DISCOURAGE THEIR USE.
THIS SCIENCE BASED LEGISLATION
WILL PROTECT CONSUMERS FROM
HEALTH HARM FROM UNNECESSARY
CHEMICALS, WHILE HELPING COMBAT
THE VERY REAL THREAT OF
ANTIMICROBIAL RESISTANCE. THANK
YOU. GOOD AFTERNOON. I'M NORA
ANGELES WITH CHILDREN NOW, AND
WE ARE PROUD TO CO-SPONSOR AB
906, THE SAFER SOAP ACT. WE
THANK ASSEMBLY MEMBER LEE FOR
AUTHORING THIS BILL. CHILDREN
NOW, AS A STATEWIDE RESEARCH AND
ADVOCACY ORGANIZATION WORKING TO
IMPROVE THE LIVES OF
CALIFORNIA'S CHILDREN. BOTH THE
CDC AND FDA SAY THAT
ANTIMICROBIAL SOAPS ARE NOT MORE
EFFECTIVE THAN PLAIN SOAP AND
CAN CAUSE SERIOUS PUBLIC HEALTH
RISKS. THOUGH THE FDA
DISCOURAGES THE USE OF
ANTIBACTERIAL SOAP AND HAS
BANNED 19 ANTIMICROBIAL
COMPOUNDS, THEY HAVE DELAYED
FORMAL REGULATORY ACTION ON
THREE REMAINING ANTIMICROBIALS
BENZALKONIUM CHLORIDE,
BENZETHONIUM CHLORIDE, AND
CHLOROXYLENOL. THESE COMMON
INGREDIENTS IN ANTIBACTERIAL
SOAP ARE LINKED TO NEUROLOGICAL,
REPRODUCTIVE, AND RESPIRATORY
HARM AND CAN CONTRIBUTE TO THE
RISE OF ANTIMICROBIAL RESISTANT
SUPERBUGS. CHILDREN ARE MORE
VULNERABLE TO THE EFFECTS OF
TOXIC CHEMICALS DUE TO THEIR
SMALLER SIZE AND THE POTENTIAL
FOR DEVELOPMENTAL DELAYS.
CALIFORNIA'S KIDS DESERVE TO BE
PROTECTED AGAINST HARMFUL
INGREDIENTS IN EVERYDAY PRODUCTS
LIKE SOAPS. CALIFORNIA CAN TAKE
THE LEAD ON THIS ISSUE BY
PASSING THE SAFER SOAP ACT,
WHICH WOULD BAN OVER-THE-COUNTER
HAND SOAPS AND BODY WASHES
CONTAINING THESE THREE SPECIFIC
ANTIMICROBIALS. HEALTH CARE
SETTINGS ARE EXEMPTED. WE ASK
FOR YOUR VOTE ON THIS BILL.
THANK YOU. THANK YOU. WE
SWITCHED CHAIRS REAL QUICK. DO
WE HAVE ANY REMAINING MEMBERS OF
THE PUBLIC IN THE HEARING ROOM
WHO WISH TO INDICATE THEIR
SUPPORT FOR THE MEASURE? EMILY
GARCIA, WITH NRDC IN SUPPORT.
JAYLA BURTON WITH WOMEN'S VOICES
FOR THE EARTH, ALSO CO-SPONSOR
AND IN SUPPORT. HI. APRIL
ROBINSON WITH A VOICE FOR CHOICE
ADVOCACY AND SUPPORT. DO WE HAVE
ANYONE IN OPPOSITION OF AB 916?
IF SO, PLEASE COME FORWARD. HI,
MY NAME IS JAMES KIM WITH THE
AMERICAN CLEANING INSTITUTE AND
I AM NOT IN FAVOR OF THIS BILL.
THANK YOU. SO THIS IS FOR THE
WITNESSES. OH, SORRY. I'M SORRY.
THAT'S OKAY. IT'S MY FIRST TIME
TO. OKAY. GOOD AFTERNOON. MY
NAME IS JAMES KIM. I HAVE A PHD
IN TOXICOLOGY AND ENVIRONMENTAL
HEALTH SCIENCES FROM THE JOHNS
HOPKINS PUBLIC HEALTH SCHOOL.
AND I'M CURRENTLY THE SENIOR
VICE PRESIDENT OF SCIENCE AND
REGULATORY AFFAIRS AT THE
AMERICAN CLEANING INSTITUTE, OR
ACI. I APPRECIATE THE
OPPORTUNITY TO SHARE OUR
PERSPECTIVE ON THE PROPOSED
BILL, AB 906, THE SAFER SOAP
ACT. ACI IS THE TRADE
ASSOCIATION FOR THE
MANUFACTURERS OF CONSUMER AND
HEALTHCARE, TOPICAL ANTISEPTIC
OVER-THE-COUNTER DRUG PRODUCTS
SOLD IN THE US. ACI IS LEADING
MULTIYEAR, MULTI-MILLION DOLLAR
EFFORTS TO COMPLETE THE FDA
REQUESTED STUDIES ON THE SAFETY
AND EFFICACY FOR THE TOPICAL
ANTISEPTIC INGREDIENTS ETHANOL,
BENZALKONIUM CHLORIDE OR BAC,
BENZETHONIUM CHLORIDE OR BCT,
AND CHLOROXYLENOL. PQM X AB 906
WOULD REMOVE PROTECTIONS AGAINST
THE SPREAD OF BACTERIA IN
INSTITUTIONAL SETTINGS.
ELIMINATE Kò HEALTHCARE
SOLUTIONS FOR CONSUMERS, AND
WOULD ALSO BE PREEMPTED UNDER
FEDERAL LAW, AND THEREFORE WE
ARE OPPOSED TO THIS BILL. I'D
LIKE TO MAKE SIX CONCISE POINTS
AS THEY RELATE TO AB 906. FIRST,
IN OUR VIEW, THESE CHEMICALS DO
NOT POSE SIGNIFICANT RISKS TO
HUMAN HEALTH AND THE
ENVIRONMENT. WHEN USED AS
DIRECTED. THEY ARE REGISTERED
WITH EPA, REQUIRING HUMAN HEALTH
AND ENVIRONMENTAL ASSESSMENTS TO
DEMONSTRATE SAFETY. TWO
ACCORDING TO THE FINDINGS OF
MULTIPLE PEER REVIEWED
PUBLICATIONS, THERE IS NO
CREDIBLE EVIDENCE THAT THESE
PRODUCTS CONTRIBUTE TO
ANTIMICROBIAL RESISTANCE. THREE
STUDIES IN THE LITERATURE
DEMONSTRATE THE GREATER EFFICACY
OF ANTIMICROBIAL SOAPS COMPARED
TO BLAND SOAPS, OR NON
ANTIMICROBIAL SOAPS. FOUR ACI IS
ACTIVELY WORKING WITH THE FDA TO
PROVIDE DATA ON THESE
INGREDIENTS THAT WOULD ESTABLISH
THEIR STATUS AS GENERALLY
RECOGNIZED AND SAFE AND
EFFECTIVE, AND FDA HAS STATED IN
WRITING THAT QUOTE, WE ARE
COMMITTED TO WORKING WITH YOU TO
FILL THE REMAINING DATA GAPS.
YOU HAVE ABOUT FIVE SECONDS,
FIVE OVER-THE-COUNTER CONSUMER
ANTISEPTIC WASHES CONTAINING
THESE INGREDIENTS ARE LAWFULLY
MARKETED UNDER THE FOOD, DRUG,
AND COSMETIC ACT PURSUANT TO THE
CARES ACT. AND FINALLY, I JUST
WANT TO NOTE THAT DTSC IS ALSO
RUNNING A RESEARCH PROGRAM
THROUGH THEIR SAFER CONSUMER
PRODUCTS PROGRAM. SO THANK YOU
FOR YOUR TIME, AND I HOPE THAT
THE COMMITTEE CONSIDERS THE
IMPORTANCE OF THESE PRODUCTS FOR
MANY SUSCEPTIBLE, VULNERABLE OR
SENSITIVE CONSUMER POPULATIONS.
THANK YOU, THANK YOU. SLIGHTLY
AWKWARD WITH MY HEAD BEHIND.
IT'S OKAY, MADAM CHAIR AND
MEMBERS DAN SHAW TESTING,
TESTIFYING ON BEHALF OF THE
PERSONAL CARE PRODUCTS COUNCIL,
RESPECTFULLY IN OPPOSITION TO AB
316. SORRY, 916 PCPC IS THE
LEADING TRADE ASSOCIATION
REPRESENTING 600 COSMETICS AND
PERSONAL CARE PRODUCTS
COMPANIES. ITS MEMBERS CREATE
NEARLY 600,000 JOBS IN
CALIFORNIA AND CONTRIBUTE
APPROXIMATELY $45 BILLION TO THE
STATE'S ECONOMY. PCPC REPRESENTS
THE BODY WASH CATEGORY
IDENTIFIED IN THIS BILL, SO I'M
ONLY TESTIFYING WITH RESPECT TO
THE INGREDIENTS BANNED IN THIS
PRODUCT CATEGORY. WE OPPOSE THE
BILL BECAUSE THERE'S NO BASIS
FOR CREATING AN ENTIRELY
SEPARATE REGULATORY REGIME,
INCLUDING REGISTRATION AND FEE
ASSESSMENTS FOR JUST THREE
CHEMICALS ON TOP OF THE
COMPREHENSIVE GREEN CHEMISTRY
PROGRAM THE LEGISLATURE CREATED
IN 2008 TO REGULATE CHEMICAL
SAFETY. IN FACT, DTSC, THE
AGENCY THAT THE LEGISLATURE
TASKED WITH EVALUATING CHEMICAL
SAFETY, IS CURRENTLY CONSIDERING
THESE AND OTHER CHEMICALS
CATEGORIZED AS QUATS. AS NOTED
IN THE ANALYSIS, DTSC PUBLISHED
ITS PRELIMINARY FINDINGS IN
DECEMBER. WHAT WOULD I. WHAT I
WOULD ADD IS THAT DTC HELD A
PUBLIC WORKSHOP TWO MONTHS AGO
TO SEEK INPUT FROM STAKEHOLDERS,
AND INTENDS TO RELEASE A PRODUCT
CHEMICAL PROFILE LATER THIS YEAR
OR EARLY NEXT. AND THIS PROFILE
TYPICALLY PRECEDES AND SERVES AS
THE BASIS FOR REGULATION. AB 906
MAY CONFLICT WITH, INTERRUPT, OR
DISRUPT DTSC. CURRENTLY,
REGULATORY PROCESS AND TIMELINE
AND ITS ONGOING DATA GATHERING
AND ASSESSMENT EFFORTS ARE
PRECISELY WHAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN
TO COMPREHENSIVELY ASSESS RISK,
THE IMPACTS OR ANY IMPACTS TO
PUBLIC HEALTH, AND TO EVALUATE
THE TRADE OFFS OF REGULATION.
FOR THESE REASONS, WE ASK FOR
YOUR NO VOTE TODAY. THANK YOU,
THANK YOU. DO WE HAVE ANY
REMAINING MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC
IN THE HEARING ROOM WHO WISH TO
INDICATE THEIR OPPOSITION TO
THIS MEASURE? THANK YOU, MR.
CHAIR AND MEMBERS AND AUGUSTINE
HERE ON BEHALF OF CONSUMER
BRANDS ASSOCIATION, ALSO ADDING
ON IN OPPOSITION, MARGIE LEE, ON
BEHALF OF THE CALIFORNIA LEAGUE
OF FOOD PRODUCERS, IN RESPECTFUL
OPPOSITION. GOOD AFTERNOON,
NICOLE QUINONES FOR THE
HOUSEHOLD AND COMMERCIAL
PRODUCTS ASSOCIATION IN
OPPOSITION. GOOD AFTERNOON,
TAYLOR TRIFO, ON BEHALF OF THE
CALIFORNIA GROCERS ASSOCIATION,
IN OPPOSITION. GOOD AFTERNOON,
OBED FRANKEL HERE ON BEHALF OF
THE AMERICAN CHEMISTRY COUNCIL,
IN RESPECTFUL OPPOSITION.
AFTERNOON. SARAH PALERMO WITH
THE CALIFORNIA RETAILERS
ASSOCIATION, OPPOSED. GOOD
AFTERNOON, ASHLEY HONG, ON
BEHALF OF ARCADIA, RESPECTFULLY
OPPOSED. THANK YOU. WE'LL BRING
IT BACK TO THE COMMITTEE. ANY
QUESTIONS? COMMENTS. ASSEMBLY
MEMBER. HI. OKAY. I THINK SOAP'S
IMPORTANT. LET'S START THERE. SO
THE ANALYSIS AND WHAT I'VE HEARD
FROM THE PROPONENTS IS THAT
PLAIN SOAP AND WATER IS JUST AS
EFFECTIVE AS ANTIBACTERIAL
SOAPS. BUT THE ANALYSIS ALSO
SAYS THAT MOST SOAP THAT I USE
ISN'T PLAIN SOAP. I DIDN'T KNOW
THAT THE AMOUNT YOU LEARN IN
THIS COMMITTEE IS AMAZING, THAT
MOST OF THE SOAPS I USE ARE
DETERGENTS, SO MY READING OF
THIS AND I'M NOT A SCIENTIST AND
I HAVE TO SAY, LET ME START BY
EXPRESSING MY FRUSTRATION TO
DTSC THAT THEY DON'T ACTUALLY DO
THEIR JOB, BECAUSE IF THEY
ACTUALLY DID THEIR JOB, WE
WOULDN'T HAVE TO HAVE THIS
CONVERSATION. WE WOULD ALL FEEL
SATISFIED WITH THE DTSC PROCESS.
BUT I ALSO HEARD FROM YOU THAT
WHAT YOU'RE RELYING ON IS A
CATEGORIZATION OF THESE
PRODUCTS. WE CAN'T EXPECT THAT
THEY'LL ACTUALLY PROTECT THE
COMMUNITY FROM THESE PRODUCTS IF
THEY WERE TO BE DETRIMENTAL
WITHIN THE YEAR. SO I DON'T KNOW
THAT WE'LL GOD KNOWS WHEN THE
ACTUAL DECISION AROUND THE
SAFETY OF THESE WOULD COME FROM.
DTSC. SO IF I'M USING A
DETERGENT, WHICH IT TURNS OUT IS
WHAT I MOSTLY USE THAT DOESN'T
HAVE ANTIMICROBIAL, IS THAT AS
EFFECTIVE AS REGULAR SOAP? THAT
WASN'T CLEAR TO ME. I'M HAPPY TO
TAKE THAT. YES. SO FOR HOME
SETTINGS, PLAIN SOAP IS JUST AS
EFFECTIVE AS ANTIBACTERIAL SOAP.
THERE'S NO PEER REVIEWED
EVIDENCE TO THE CONTRARY THAT'S
CONDUCTED, BUT I'M NOT USING
PLAIN SOAP. ACCORDING TO THE
ANALYSIS, 80% OF PRODUCTS ARE
DETERGENT NON ANTIBACTERIAL
SOAP. SO EVERY SO EVEN THE
DETERGENTS AS DESCRIBED IN THE
ANALYSIS ARE AS EFFECTIVE AS
ANTIBACTERIAL SOAPS. IS THAT FOR
HOME SETTINGS THERE'S NO
EVIDENCE THAT AN ANTIBACTERIAL
SOAP WOULD HAVE ANY DIFFERENCE.
I THINK IT MIGHT HELP TO
DISTINGUISH THE MECHANISMS
BETWEEN PLAIN SOAP OR
DETERGENTS. JUST NON
ANTIBACTERIAL SOAP. HOW THAT
WORKS. THEY WORK BY REMOVING
GERMS. AND AS ASSEMBLY MEMBER
LEE SAYS, THAT'S KILLS. THAT
REMOVES 99.9% OF VIRUSES AND
BACTERIA. ANTIBACTERIAL SOAP IS
MEANT TO KILL THE BACTERIA
RATHER THAN JUST REMOVING IT.
AND WHERE THAT IS MORE EFFECTIVE
IS IN HOSPITAL SETTINGS,
PRIMARILY FOR SURGERY PREP. SO
SURGEONS ARE USING THESE SOAPS
BEFORE SURGERY FOR AND SCRUBBING
WITH A SPECIFIC TECHNIQUE FOR 2
TO 6 MINUTES. SO I'M NOT AWARE
OF ANYBODY THAT WASHES THEIR
HANDS AT HOME FOR 2 TO 6
MINUTES. I ALSO NOT SURE I KNOW
ANYBODY THAT PERFORMS SURGERY AT
HOME. WELL. SO OKAY, SO YOU'RE
PROHIBITING THE ANTIBACTERIAL
SOAP FROM ALL MANUFACTURING,
SALE AND DISTRIBUTION. DOES THAT
INCLUDE IN HOSPITAL SETTINGS?
THAT'S HOW I READ THIS PART OF
THE BILL. NO, IT DOES NOT. IS
THERE AN EXCEPTION? YES. OKAY.
THAT'S GOOD. I DON'T KNOW THAT I
THERE'S A HEALTHCARE SETTING
OKAY. GREAT. THAT'S IMPORTANT.
SO I DID NOTICE A LACK OF LIKE
WHAT'S THE SCIENTIFIC DATA WE'RE
RELYING ON HERE. THAT'S WHAT I
WAS REALLY LOOKING FOR. I'M
ASKING THE PROPONENTS OF THE
BILL. SURE. SO THERE'S PEER
REVIEWED RESEARCH PAPERS ON ALL
OF THESE TOXICITY ENDPOINTS.
THERE'S ANIMAL STUDIES. THERE'S
IN VIVO CELL BASED STUDIES. AND
THERE'S SOME HUMAN EPIDEMIOLOGIC
STUDIES, PRIMARILY IN
OCCUPATIONAL EXPOSURE EXPOSURES
FROM PEOPLE WHO ARE IN CLEANING
PROFESSIONS. AND THERE'S A
CONSISTENT WEIGHT OF EVIDENCE,
ESPECIALLY FOR THE MOST COMMONLY
USED ANTIMICROBIAL, WHICH IS
BENZALKONIUM CHLORIDE. FOR
DECADES, THERE'S BEEN EVIDENCE
OF REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH HARMS,
ASTHMA AND RESPIRATORY
INFLAMMATION, AND INDUCING
ANTIBIOTIC RESISTANCE TO SPECIES
OF BACTERIA, INCLUDING LISTERIA
AND STAPHYLOCOCCUS. SO CAN YOU
GIVE ME SOME OF THE RESEARCH
INSTITUTIONS THAT HAVE DONE SOME
OF THOSE STUDIES? SURE. UC
DAVIS, NORTHWESTERN, OUR I WAS
LOOKING FOR IT. FREQUENT
PUBLISHERS OF SUCH DATA. BUT
THEY'RE NOT CITED. IT JUST SAYS
STUDIES. THAT WAS THE PROBLEM.
OKAY. YEAH. THE ANALYSIS DOESN'T
CITE TO THE STUDIES EITHER,
WHICH WAS PART OF MY
FRUSTRATION. IT JUST SAYS
STUDIES AND NOT ALL STUDIES ARE
CREATED EQUAL. ANY SCIENCE MAJOR
WILL TELL YOU THAT. AND SOME
PEOPLE PAY FOR STUDIES. THAT'S
WHY I ASKED THE QUESTION. I
THINK IT IS IMPORTANT THAT WE
TRY TO RELY ON GOOD SCIENCE. SO
YOU MENTIONED ON BEHALF OF THE
PCPC, THANK YOU THAT THERE'S
GOING TO BE THIS CLASSIFICATION
OF THE QUADS THIS YEAR. WAS THAT
WHAT I UNDERSTOOD YOU TO SAY? I
MENTIONED THE DTSC IS CURRENTLY
REVIEWING THE CLASS OF CHEMICALS
THAT THESE THREE FALL UNDER
QUOTES. YEAH. AND INTENDS TO
ISSUE WHAT'S KNOWN AS A PRODUCT
CHEMICAL PROFILE VERY SOON. THAT
WOULD SERVE AS THE BASIS FOR
REGULATION. RIGHT. BUT WE HAVE
NO SENSE OF WHEN OR IF THAT
REGULATION WOULD COME TO PASS,
JUST THAT THEY MIGHT CLASSIFY
THEM. I, I WOULD, I DON'T KNOW.
THERE, THERE VERY WELL COULD BE
MY, MY GUESS MY, MY KNOWLEDGE
BASE IS THAT THEY TYPICALLY
WOULD NOT ISSUE A PRODUCT
CHEMICAL PROFILE IF IT DID NOT
INTEND TO REGULATE A SUBSTANCE.
AND THAT MAKES SENSE. I THINK
THE PROBLEM IS THAT IN OUR DTSC
OVERSIGHT HEARINGS, I HAVEN'T
BEEN ON THE COMMITTEE IN A
WHILE. I'M WELCOMING MYSELF
BACK, BUT IN MY DAYS HERE,
PREVIOUSLY, WHEN WE HAD
OVERSIGHT HEARINGS, I MEAN, THEY
WERE REVIEWING ONE CHEMICAL
EVERY THREE YEARS. I MEAN, IT
WAS REALLY SHAMEFUL THE AMOUNT
THAT THEY REVIEW. AND SO I GUESS
I JUST FIND RELYING ON THEM
FRUSTRATING, BUT I FIND THE
WHOLE THING FRUSTRATING. WE
SHOULD BE ABLE TO TRUST
GOVERNMENT, SO WE SHOULD DO
BETTER. SO I'M REALLY TORN HERE
BECAUSE I THINK THAT THE LAST
THING I WANT TO DO IS NOT
PROVIDE THE SOAP THAT IS
NECESSARY. I DON'T LOVE US DOING
THIS BECAUSE I DON'T THINK I
HAVE THE SKILL SET OR THE TIME I
VOTED ON. I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY
BILLS AND JUDICIARY AND I'M
VOTING ON. I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY
BILLS HERE TODAY, SO I DON'T
HAVE THE CAPACITY TO ACTUALLY
READ THE STUDIES AND FIGURE OUT
WHERE THE SCIENCE IS. AND OUR
MEETINGS ON THIS BILL HAVE
BASICALLY BEEN ONE SIDE SAYING
THAT THERE'S GOOD EVIDENCE, AND
THE OTHER SIDE SAYING THE
EVIDENCE IS MIXED, AND I'M NOT
IN A POSITION TO DETERMINE WHICH
OF YOU IS TELLING ME THE TRUTH.
SO I DON'T LOVE US DOING THIS.
ON THE OTHER HAND, I THINK THAT
THE AUTHOR IS RAISING SOME
SERIOUS CONCERNS AROUND WHAT WE
ARE PUTTING IN PEOPLE'S BODIES,
AND I THINK HE HAS GOOD REASON
TO NOT WAIT FOR DTSC TO DO THAT.
THERE'S IF ANYONE HAS, YOU KNOW,
IF THE OPPONENTS WANT TO BRING
US A GOOD DTSC REFORM BILL, I
BET WE WOULD ALL ENTERTAIN THAT.
BUT, YOU KNOW, SO I THINK I'M
GOING TO SUPPORT IT TODAY. BUT I
REALLY DO FEEL LIKE I NEED TO
FEEL CONFIDENT THAT WE ARE
DEALING IN THE SCIENTIFIC REALM,
THAT WE ARE MAKING GOOD
DECISIONS BASED ON SOLID
SCIENCE. AND HAVING TWO SIDES
DISAGREE ABOUT THE SCIENCE MAKES
THAT INCREDIBLY HARD. SO I'LL
SUPPORT THE BILL TODAY. BUT I DO
FEEL LIKE THIS IS PUTTING US IN
A TOUGH POSITION OF MAKING SURE
WE'RE KEEPING CALIFORNIANS SAFE,
BECAUSE SOAP HAS SUCH BENEFIT AS
WELL. WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT
FRAGRANCES THAT ARE KIND OF
OPTIONAL, THAT FEELS VERY
DIFFERENT THAN ANTIBACTERIAL
SOAPS. OKAY. YEAH. THANK YOU,
VICE CHAIR. I HAVE A LOT OF
QUESTIONS. SO THIS BILL BANS THE
SOAP FOR CONSUMERS TO BUY, BUT
NOT IN THE HEALTH CARE SCENE OR
MEDICAL SETTINGS. CAN YOU
EXPLAIN WHY THAT IS? YOU KIND OF
TOUCHED ON IT. IT'S LIKE AN ADD
ON. YEAH. SO THIS IS THIS IS A
PUZZLING ISSUE. FDA HAS SET THE
STANDARDS FOR SUCCESS DIFFERENT
BETWEEN THE HEALTH CARE AND
CONSUMER PRODUCTS. RIGHT. SO FOR
THE HEALTH CARE PRODUCTS, FDA
HAS REQUIRED THAT WE USE
CLINICAL SIMULATION STUDIES. SO
THESE ARE STUDIES WHERE AN
INOCULUM OF BACTERIA IS PLACED
ON THE TEST SUBJECTS HANDS. THE
TEST ARTICLE IS USED. AND THEN
HOW MUCH BACTERIA REMAINING ON
THE HANDS IS MEASURED. AND THESE
THESE INGREDIENTS SHOW
DEMONSTRABLY THAT THERE ARE
SEVERAL LOG REDUCTIONS OF
BACTERIA ON THE HANDS. SO I
DON'T REALLY UNDERSTAND HOW YOU
CAN SAY THAT THESE PRODUCTS ARE
NOT EFFICACIOUS WHEN THE DATA IS
CLEARLY THERE. NOW FOR THE
CONSUMER PRODUCT, FDA HAS SAID
THAT THEY WANT TO SEE ACTUAL
DISEASE REDUCTION, NOT JUST A
SURROGATE ENDPOINT LIKE
BACTERIAL LOG REDUCTION. RIGHT.
SO THEY WANT US TO DESIGN THE
STUDIES TO TEST IN A CONSUMER
CLINICAL WAY HOW THESE PRODUCTS
WORK. WELL, THOSE TESTS WILL
TAKE SEVERAL YEARS TO COMPLETE.
THEY TAKE SEVERAL YEARS EVEN
JUST TO DESIGN. AND SO WHEN FDA
DEFERRED THESE INGREDIENTS BACK
IN 2018, AND IF YOU READ THE
PROGRESS REPORTS AND THE ANNUAL
DEFERRALS, THEY HAVE BEEN
PLEASED WITH OUR PROGRESS AND
CONTINUED TO ISSUE DEFERRALS.
RIGHT. IF THESE PRODUCTS. I ALSO
WANT TO STATE THAT, YOU KNOW, I
HEARD ABOUT THE ABSORPTION OF
SOME OF THESE INGREDIENTS
THROUGH THE SKIN. WE ARE WORKING
ON WHAT WE CALL MAXIMUM USE
TRIALS, AND THESE ARE CONSUMER
HANDWASHES. THERE'S NO
ABSORPTION OF THE ACTIVE
INGREDIENT THROUGH THE SKIN. IN
A CONSUMER HAND WASH, WHERE
THERE IS CONCERN ABOUT
ABSORPTION THROUGH THE SKIN OR
WITH HAND RUBS, OR LEAVE ON
PRODUCTS. RIGHT. BUT NOT WITH
CONSUMER WASHES. SO THOSE ARE
SORT OF THE POINTS THAT I WANTED
TO MAKE. AND IS THERE. HAVE YOU
THOUGHT ABOUT AN AGRICULTURE
EXEMPTION? SO I HAVE A FARM. WE
HAVE LIVESTOCK WE NEED WE SCRUB
UP LIKE A SURGEON. IF WE'RE
PULLING A CALF OR DOING
SOMETHING THAT IS NOT YET READY
FOR THE VETERINARIAN OR
VETERINARIAN PRACTICES, DO THEY
COUNT IN THOSE MEDICAL SETTINGS?
YOU KNOW, I'M NOT SURE IF A
VETERINARIAN VETERINARY PRACTICE
COUNTS AS A MEDICAL SETTING. I
BELIEVE THAT IT DOES. OKAY, IN
TERMS OF THE AGRICULTURAL
SETTING. SO FDA AGREED THAT
THERE SHOULD BE THREE
MONOGRAPHS, A CONSUMER
MONOGRAPH, HEALTHCARE MONOGRAPH,
AND THE FOOD HANDLER MONOGRAPH.
THE FOOD HANDLER MONOGRAPH WAS
SUPPOSED TO HAVE A NON NON
PRESCRIPTION DRUG ADVISORY
COMMITTEE MEETING IN MARCH OF
2020. AND THAT MEETING WAS
CANCELED BECAUSE OF THE COVID
PANDEMIC. FDA HAS NOT YET TAKEN
THAT BACK UP. SO WE ARE Dð A
FOOD HANDLER MONOGRAPH. HOWEVER,
IN THE ABSENCE OF A FOOD HANDLER
MONOGRAPH, THE CONSUMER
MONOGRAPH PRESUMABLY COVERS ALL
OTHER PRODUCTS THAT ARE NOT
HEALTHCARE. AND SO THE FOOD
HANDLER SITUATIONS THAT YOU'VE
DESCRIBED IN AGRICULTURE WOULD
FALL UNDER THE CONSUMER
MONOGRAPH AND WOULD BE AT RISK
OF BEING BANNED. AND MOST
FOODBORNE OUTBREAKS ARE BACTERIA
BASED, I THINK, AROUND. SO THAT
MAKES ME NERVOUS. I'M NOT GONNA
LIE. 45 MAKES ME VERY NERVOUS.
OKAY, SO THIS ONE IS THERE. I
WOULD WANT TO JUMP AHEAD. YEAH.
SO FROM MY UNDERSTANDING OF
AGRICULTURE AND FOOD
PREPARATION, MOST OF THE USE OF
THESE CHEMICALS WOULD BE FOR
DISINFECTANT, A TOTALLY
DIFFERENT DISINFECTANT PRODUCT.
NOT THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT
HAND SOAP. SO THIS WOULD BE THE
FOOD HANDLERS WASHING THEIR
HANDS. AND THERE'S NO EVIDENCE
OF ANY BENEFIT OF ANTIBACTERIAL
HAND SOAP IN FOOD PREP. PLAIN
SOAP AND WATER IS FULLY
COMPLIANT WITH THE FDA'S FOOD
CODE. IT'S LESS EXPENSIVE, AND
IT REMOVES HARMFUL MICROBES
WITHOUT CONTRIBUTING TO
ANTIMICROBIAL RESISTANCE. AND
WHAT PARTICULARLY CONCERNS ME IS
THAT THESE CHEMICALS HAVE BEEN
SHOWN TO PROMOTE THE DEVELOPMENT
OF ANTIMICROBIAL RESISTANT
BACTERIA, INCLUDING LISTERIA AND
STAPHYLOCOCCUS SPECIES, AND
RESISTANT BACTERIA SURVIVING ON
A WORKER'S HANDS CAN CONTAMINATE
FOOD PRODUCTS, AND THAT
INCREASES THE LIKELIHOOD OF
FOODBORNE ILLNESS OUTBREAKS THAT
ARE REALLY DIFFICULT TO TREAT.
SO. SO IF I IF I CAN, IF I CAN
JUST BACK UP A LITTLE BIT IN THE
SETTINGS HERE. AND THIS IS WHY I
LOVE SERVING THIS COMMITTEE IS
THOUGH WE ARE NOT SCIENTISTS AT
ALL, AND THAT'S WHY WE HAVE ALL
THESE GREAT EXPERTS HERE.
TALKING ABOUT THE VERY
SCIENTIFIC, ACCURATE THING IS TO
THINK ABOUT THIS AS WHAT I'M
TALKING ABOUT IS HAND SOAP. SO
WHEN YOU GO AND YOU WASH AND YOU
PHYSICALLY RUB IT, THAT'S WHERE
MOST OF THE ACTUAL BACTERIA ARE
OFF, RIGHT, BECAUSE OF THAT
PHYSICAL RUBBING. AND WHEN WE
TALK ABOUT YOUR NORMAL THINK
ABOUT BAR SOAP OR SOMETHING,
IT'S JUST AS EFFECTIVE AS THESE
IN THAT SENSE, BECAUSE YOU'RE
STILL DOING THE APPLICATION OF
RUBBING YOUR HAND, THE PHYSICAL
ACTION OF DOING SO. AND WHAT
WE'RE TRYING TO TARGET IS THESE
THREE SPECIFIC CHEMICALS THAT
CAN HAVE LOTS OF OTHER SIDE
EFFECTS AND OTHER HEALTH EFFECTS
THAT CAN GET INTO SOIL, THAT CAN
GET INTO HUMAN HEALTH. EXACTLY.
AND I AND I AND I AGREE ABOUT
THE OPPOSITION, IS THAT IF YOUR
EFFICACY, IF WHAT YOU'RE
TARGETING IS GETTING THE GERMS
OFF OF YOUR HANDS, THAT'S WHY WE
WANT THAT IN A SURGERY SETTING,
RIGHT? BECAUSE IF A SURGEON IS
DIPPING YOUR HANDS INTO A HUMAN
BODY THAT IS VERY DIFFERENT THAN
SOMEONE AT HOME THAT'S GOT SOME
SPILLS OR WHATEVER, LIKE THAT'S
A DIFFERENT SETTING, BECAUSE IN
THE SURGERY SETTING YOU NEED TO
GET ALL THAT STUFF, LIKE
LITERALLY PHYSICALLY OFF IN
ADDITION TO RUBBING IT OFF YOU.
RIGHT. AND SO IN THE VETERINARY
SPACE, I'LL HAVE TO LOOK AT THAT
TOO, HOW THAT OVERLAPS. BUT I
WOULD ASSUME IT'S HEALTH CARE
RELATED. I MEAN, IT'S HEALTH
CARE OF JUST THE FARM SPACE.
LIKE, YEAH, YEAH, I NEED THAT
SAME MEDICAL SETTING FOR MY COWS
OR MY SHEEP OR PIGS OR WHATEVER
WE'RE WORKING ON. YEAH. AND THAT
IS A THAT'S A LOT OF OUR STATE
WORKING. RIGHT. SO. RIGHT. SO I
HAVE I HAVE LIKE TWO MORE
QUESTIONS. SO MY UNDERSTANDING
IS THE EUROPEAN UNION DID NOT
BAN BENZOIC BENZOQUINONE
CHLORIDE, BENZETHONIUM CHLORIDE
AND CHLORIDE. CLOROX I CAN'T SAY
THAT. PCMB PCM BUT THEY
PRIMARILY THEY RESTRICTED THE
USE TO PRESERVATIVES AND
COSMETICS OR RINSE OFF PRODUCTS.
CAN YOU EXPLAIN WHY THAT IS?
YEAH. SO COMMITTEE ANALYSIS
PULLS DIRECTLY FROM THE DTSC
REPORT ON THE QUATERNARY
AMMONIUM COMPOUNDS AND MULTIPLE
PEER REVIEWED STUDIES. THEY ALL
REFERENCE DIRECTLY THE EU BAN ON
THESE CHEMICALS AND HAND AND
BODY WASH. OKAY. AND THEN THE
FEDERAL FOOD, DRUG AND COSMETIC
ACT SAYS THAT A STATE CANNOT
ESTABLISH ANY REQUIREMENT THAT
IS NOT SUBJECT TO THE ACT. SO
ADDITIONALLY, ACTIVE INGREDIENTS
USED IN HAND SOAPS ARE ALREADY
UNDER ACTIVE REVIEW BY THE FOOD
AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION. JIM,
CAN YOU EXPLAIN IF FEDERAL LAW
PREEMPTS THIS BILL? YES, THAT'S
RIGHT. THE OTC NON-PRESCRIPTION
DRUG SECTION OF THE FOOD, DRUG
AND COSMETIC ACT LOOKS FOR
NATIONAL UNIFORMITY WHEN IT
COMES TO REGULATING
OVER-THE-COUNTER DRUGS, WHICH
MEANS THAT THIS LAW WOULD BE
PREEMPTED BY THE FOOD, DRUG, AND
COSMETIC ACT. RIGHT. SO JUST AS
I WOULD SAY THAT IT'S NOT
FEDERALLY PREEMPTED, IF THAT WAS
THE CASE, OUR OWN DTSC WOULDN'T
BE STUDYING THESE CHEMICALS AS
PART OF THEIR OWN RULEMAKING
PROCESS. AT THE MOMENT, EXISTING
LAW PROHIBITS DTSC FROM
DUPLICATING OR ADOPTING
CONFLICTING REGULATIONS FOR
PRODUCT CATEGORIES. ALREADY,
REGULATORS SUBJECT TO PENDING
REGULATION. AND GIVEN THAT DTSC
IS MOVING FORWARD WITH THE PRE
RULEMAKING WORKSHOP, IT WOULD
APPEAR THAT FEDERAL RULEMAKING
DOES NOT APPLY. SO WE'RE NOT IN
CONFLICT WITH FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT. AND IT'S ALSO THE
CASE, AS YOU SEE, MANY BILLS IN
THIS COMMITTEE IS WE ARE TAKING
ON CHEMICAL BANS OR CHEMICAL
SPECIFIC THINGS. RIGHT. SO IT'S
NOT IN CONFLICT BECAUSE WE CAN,
YOU KNOW, IF THE FDA DOESN'T
HAVE IT OR THE FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT DOESN'T HAVE ONE
THAT'S IN CONFLICT. WELL,
PREEMPTS, I SAID, PREEMPTS, NOT
CONFLICT, BUT SO THE DEPARTMENT
OF TOXIC SUBSTANCES CONTROL IS
RESPONSIBLE FOR SAFE CONSUMER
PRODUCTS. MY UNDERSTANDING IS
THAT THEY ALREADY BEGAN LOOKING
INTO THIS ISSUE MORE BROADLY,
WHICH YOU KIND OF TOUCHED ON.
JIM, CAN YOU EXPLAIN WHAT
THEY'RE DOING ABOUT THIS ISSUE?
I'M SORRY. CAN YOU REPEAT THE
QUESTION THAT THE DEPARTMENT OF
TOXIC SUBSTANCE CONTROL IS
RESPONSIBLE FOR SAFE CONSUMER
PRODUCTS? SO THEY'VE ALREADY
BEGAN LOOKING AT THIS ISSUE MORE
BROADLY. YEAH. AND THEY'VE BEEN
LOOKING AT SCCS AS A CHEMICAL
CLASS. AND SOME OF THE
INFORMATION WE PROVIDED BACK TO
THEM IS ABOUT THE
INAPPROPRIATENESS OF CONSIDERING
THEM AS A SINGLE CHEMICAL CLASS.
RATHER, IT'S MANY DIFFERENT
KINDS OF CHEMICAL CLASSES WITH
DIFFERENT PROPERTIES.
UNDERSTANDING THAT DTSC, AS MY
COLLEAGUE HAS NOTED, THEY DO
HAVE AN INTENT TO EVALUATE THESE
COMPOUNDS FOR FUTURE REGULATION.
OKAY, SO CAN I RESPOND TO ONE?
I'M SORRY, THE EU GO AHEAD. I
CAN CONFIRM THAT THE EU HAS NOT
BANNED ENTIRELY THE USE OF THESE
CHEMICALS. IT HAS RESTRICTED
THEIR USE IN CERTAIN COSMETIC
USES OR USE CASES PRIMARILY TO
THEIR USE AS PRESERVATIVES. SO
THERE IS STILL A NOVEL USE. IN
THE EU. AND THEN I THINK, JUST
LASTLY, IT IMPOSES A FEE ON SOAP
AND BODY WASH MANUFACTURERS TO
FUND THE REGULATIONS, AND THEN
THOSE FEES WILL BE PASSED DOWN
TO CONSUMERS. SO THEN WE'RE IN
TURN MAKING THE SOAP MORE
EXPENSIVE FOR ALREADY STRUGGLING
FAMILIES. THAT MAKES ME NERVOUS.
I JUST THINK SOMETIMES WE RELY
ON OUR SCIENTISTS CHEAP FOR
PEOPLE THAT HAVE GOOD JOBS. I
MEAN, WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT
THERE ARE LOW INCOME FAMILIES.
WELL, EVEN THAT IT'S NOT
SOMETHING THEY CAN PAY IF
THEY'RE HERE ON AID. YOU CAN'T
GO BUY SOAP. SO, YOU KNOW, WITH
FOOD STAMPS OR PROGRAMS THAT WE
HAVE. SO LAUNDRY SOAP, WHEN I
WAS TEACHING, THAT WAS ONE OF
THE THINGS WE PROVIDED WAS HAND
SOAP, LAUNDRY SOAP. THOSE THINGS
ARE VERY HARD FOR FAMILIES THAT
ARE STRUGGLING TO GET. SO THAT I
JUST THINK IN THESE THE FISCAL
CRISIS WE'RE FACING RIGHT NOW,
THAT'S A REALLY IMPORTANT THING
TO LOOK AT. AND I FEEL LIKE WE
SHOULD LET SCIENTISTS MAKE THE
REGULATIONS, JUST LIKE MY
COLLEAGUE TALKED ABOUT. WE'RE
NOT THE EXPERTS.
ASSEMBLYMEMBER'S MCKENNA. YES. I
TEND TO AGREE WITH MY COLLEAGUE
FROM THE EAST BAY. WE'RE NOT
SCIENTISTS. I'M AN ACCOUNTANT BY
TRADE, SO I HAVE I'M READING
THIS, AND I GET A LITTLE
CONFUSED. BUT THE ONLY PLACE
THAT I'M CONCERNED IS IN FOOD
HANDLING, BECAUSE I WANT TO MAKE
SURE THAT WHEN WE'RE HANDLING
FOOD, THAT IT'S CLEAN, THE
SURROUNDING IS CLEAN, EVERYTHING
IS CLEAN. SO I HOPE YOU'RE
YOU'RE WORKING WITH THE
STAKEHOLDERS AND YOU CONTINUE TO
WORK WITH THEM. I'M I'M GOING TO
GIVE YOU MY VOTE TODAY, BUT I
WANT TO SEE THAT YOU GUYS ARE
CONTINUING TO WORK WITH THE
STAKEHOLDERS AND WORKING WITH
PEOPLE'S QUESTIONS. OKAY. THANK
YOU. DO YOU WANT TO COMMENT ON
ANY OF THE FOOD HANDLING STUFF?
OH, SURE. I WOULD JUST SAY AGAIN
THAT THAT THAT ISSUE HAS BEEN
STUDIED AND THE FDA'S FOOD CODE
STILL ALLOWS PLAIN SOAP AND FOOD
PREPARATION, BECAUSE THERE'S NO
EVIDENCE OF BENEFIT OF THESE
SOAPS FOR FOOD HANDLERS. AND I'D
ALSO BE CONCERNED FOR THE HEALTH
OF THE FOOD HANDLERS WHO ARE
WASHING THEIR HANDS MULTIPLE
TIMES A SHIFT, AND THE
CUMULATIVE EXPOSURE THERE. AND
ALSO PLAIN SOAP IS LESS
EXPENSIVE THAN ANTIBACTERIAL
SOAP FOR FOOD SERVICE
OPERATIONS, ESPECIALLY SMALL
BUSINESSES WITH REALLY THIN,
TIGHT MARGINS. ANTIBACTERIAL
HAND SOAP IS AN UNNECESSARY,
ONGOING EXPENSE. MAY I PROVIDE A
COMMENT? HERE? YES. YEAH. GO
AHEAD. I WANT TO REVISIT THE
QUESTION ABOUT. I ACTUALLY DID
FIND THE WAY THIS WAS SET UP
AGAIN. IT'S BEEN A WHILE SINCE
I'VE BEEN ON THIS COMMITTEE, BUT
I'VE VOTED ON BILLS WHERE WE'VE
DEALT WITH CHEMICALS PRIOR AND
THE FEE STRUCTURE AND THE WAY
THAT IS SET UP. ASSEMBLY MEMBER,
CAN YOU EXPLAIN THAT TO ME?
LIKE, WHY ARE WE DOING IT THIS
WAY VERSUS HOW WE'VE DONE IT
PREVIOUSLY, WHERE WE JUST SAY,
YOU CAN'T DO IT? THAT'S BEEN MY
EXPERIENCE. SO I DO I MEAN, I
HAVE THE COST CONCERN AS WELL,
AND I DON'T EVEN UNDERSTAND WHY
THAT PART IS NECESSARY, TO BE
HONEST WITH YOU. I BELIEVE IT IS
BORROWING FROM OTHER BILLS IN
THIS SESSION WHERE WE'RE
REGULATING CERTAIN CHEMICALS AND
APPLICATIONS AS WELL. SO I
BELIEVE THERE IS ANOTHER BILL
THAT THIS COMMITTEE IS
CONSIDERING A SIMILAR STRUCTURE.
SO WE WANT TO HAVE UNIFORMITY
ENFORCEMENT. THE PART I DID NOT
COME UP WITH IT. I WAS YEAH,
YEAH THE BILL. BUT THE PAP AND
BILL I FEEL LIKE WAS A AN
UPDATE. I MISSED THAT BECAUSE I
WAS DOWN AT JUDICIARY BUT A
DIFFERENT BILL A DIFFERENT BILL
OKAY. OH THAT'S SIGNED INTO LAW
OKAY. SEE I WASN'T ON THE
COMMITTEE LAST YEAR. THIS IS
WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU GO BACK
AND FORTH. YEAH. YEAH. I MEAN, I
DO THINK WE YOU KNOW, I THINK
WE'RE IN A MOMENT WHERE ALL OF
US SHOULD BE FOCUSED ON THE COST
OF GOODS, ESPECIALLY A
NECESSITY. I MEAN, BY EVERY
MEASURE, SOAP IS A NECESSITY.
AND SO, YOU KNOW, I DO HOPE THAT
YOU'LL LOOK AT THAT PIECE OF IT
AND FIGURE OUT IF THERE'S A
BETTER WAY TO DO THIS SO AS NOT
TO LEAD TO THE PASS DOWN OF
COSTS. ALTHOUGH MENSTRUAL
PRODUCTS ARE EQUALLY AS
NECESSARY. BUT I KNOW THAT WAS A
MANY YEARS IN THE MAKING PIECE
OF LEGISLATION, AND MAYBE THERE
WAS A REASON THAT THAT WAS DONE
THAT WAY. AND I JUST DON'T DON'T
KNOW. ALTHOUGH WE HAVE MADE
CERTAIN EXEMPTIONS FOR MENSTRUAL
PRODUCTS THAT RELATES TO COST,
BUT I DON'T KNOW, APPLY TO SOAP.
SO YES. SO I WOULD I THINK
THAT'S AN IMPORTANT THING AS WE
MOVE FORWARD OUT OF THIS
COMMITTEE TO PAY ATTENTION TO SO
WE CAN DRIVE DOWN COSTS FOR
CONSUMERS. OTHER QUESTIONS OR
COMMENTS FROM COMMITTEE MEMBERS
SEEING NONE. WOULD YOU LIKE TO
CLOSE? YEAH. THANK YOU SO MUCH,
MEMBERS, FOR THIS THOUGHTFUL
DISCUSSION. IT IS A COMPLICATED
ONE BECAUSE THIS IS A VERY
SCIENCE HEAVY COMMITTEE, AND NOT
ALL OF US HAVE THAT KIND OF
BACKGROUND. BUT REST ASSURED,
THIS IS A BILL THAT WOULD REALLY
ONLY AFFECT 2 TO 3 BRANDS,
BECAUSE AS WE ARE UNVEILING THIS
AND TALKING ABOUT LIKE, WHAT IS
DETERGENT? WHAT IS THE SOAP? ALL
THESE THINGS, WE COLLOQUIALLY
THINK OF ALL OF THESE PRODUCTS
AS THE SAME THING, BUT IN FACT
THAT THESE PRODUCTS ARE MARKETED
WITH VERY SPECIFIC, OH, MY VICE
CHAIR IS HERE FOR MY COMMITTEE.
SO I'M LIKE, WHO'S RUNNING THE
COMMITTEE OVER THERE? SO THESE
THESE VERY SPECIFIC PRODUCTS ARE
MUCH MORE MARKETING THAN
ANYTHING ELSE, BECAUSE WE KNOW
THAT THE VERY RUDIMENTARY,
ALMOST ANCIENT BAR SOAP TYPE
BEHAVIOR OF WASHING YOUR HANDS
IS JUST AS GOOD BECAUSE OF THE
PHYSICAL REACTIONS. SO I REALLY
SAY THAT AND ESPECIALLY AS I
VIEW IN THIS COMMITTEE,
OFTENTIMES WE TAKE THE
PRECAUTIONARY PRINCIPLE WHERE WE
ARE STUDIES AND THERE ARE
INFORMATION SHOWING THAT THERE
CAN BE SOIL, WATER OR PHYSICAL
HUMAN HEALTH IMPLICATIONS OF
CHEMICALS WHERE WE DON'T
NECESSARILY NEED THEM IS WHY
THIS COMMITTEE IS SO GREAT. AND
ACTUALLY PULLING THAT OUT OF THE
PRODUCTS. RIGHT? BECAUSE AT THE
SAME TIME, MANY OF THESE
PRODUCTS AREN'T NECESSARY TO THE
REAL FUNCTION IN MANY DAY TO DAY
LIVES. IN FACT, THEY'RE KIND OF
JUST MORE MARKETING TERMS, IF
ANYTHING. SO I THINK IT REALLY
IS IMPORTANT TO TAKE A
PRECAUTIONARY LOOK AT THIS, MAKE
SURE THAT WE ARE PROTECTING
CALIFORNIANS AND MAKING SURE
THAT WE ARE SPEEDING ALONG A
PROCESS THAT UNFORTUNATELY, YOU
KNOW, OFTEN WE ARE VERY
FRUSTRATED WITH DTSC AND THE
BUREAUCRACY. IT'S NOT GETTING AS
FAST AS POSSIBLE. SO WITH THAT,
I RESPECTFULLY ASK FOR YOUR I
VOTE AND YOU CAN WASH YOUR HANDS
OF THIS ISSUE AND WE CAN BE ON
THE NEXT COMMITTEE. THANK YOU.
ON THAT NOTE, AND THIS IS AN AYE
RECOMMENDATION FROM THE CHAIR.
WE'LL SEE IF THERE'S A MOTION.
AND SECOND ON THIS BILL I'LL
MOVE THAT. GOT A MOTION BY
BAUER-KAHAN OKAY. OKAY I'LL GIVE
YOU A SECOND TODAY. SECOND FROM
ASSEMBLYMEMBER PAPIN, PLEASE
CALL THE ROLL. THIS IS FILE ITEM
NUMBER THREE AB 916, AUTHORED BY
ASSEMBLY MEMBER LEE. THE MOTION
IS DUE PASS TO THE COMMITTEE ON
HEALTH. CONNOLLY, A, CONNOLLY I,
HARDWICK NØ HARDWICK. NÓ.
BAUER-KAHAN. BAUER-KAHAN. AYE.
CASTILLO. NO. CASTILLO. NO. LEE.
HI. LEE I MCKENNA. I MCKINNON I
AND PAPIN I. PAPIN I. THANK YOU.
GREAT. YOU HAVE THE VOTES TO GET
OUT. AND THAT CONCLUDES OUR
BILLS. WHY DON'T WE GO AHEAD AND
OPEN ITEMS BACK UP FOR ADD ONS?
WELCOME, ASSEMBLYMEMBER
CASTILLO. YOU. DIÆN, AS YOU SAID
IN THAT PASSAGE OUT, AS OPPOSED
TO, I DON'T KNOW, THERE'S NUMBER
FIVE, THERE'S. NO. COMMIT
THEMSELVES. AND WE HAVE A NEW
THE. WOULD YOU LIKE ME TO READ
THE RULES AND CONSENT? OKAY.
YES. I YEAH. NO THAT'S FINE. OR
YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT. SO DON'T
DON'T DON'T GO THERE WITH ME.
OKAY. DID YOU GET IT? I'LL GO
GET A FREE SAMPLE IF YOU EVER
GET A CHANCE. THANK YOU. THAT. I
KNOW. ALL RIGHT. I HAVE A COUPLE.
OKAY. OH, I DIDN'T MISS ANYTHING
THERE WE ARE REOPENING THE ROLL.
YOU ARE GOOD FOR CONSENT, BAUER.
KHN. AYE, AYE. CASTILLO. THIS
IS FOR THE CONSENT. CONSENT?
AYE, AYE. LI. AYE AYE. REOPENING
THE VOTE FOR ADOPTING THE
COMMITTEE RULES. BAUER. KHN.
AYE. BAUER-KAHAN. AYE. CASTILLO.
CASTILLO. AYE. LEE. LEE. AYE.
ALL RIGHT. ITEM NUMBER ONE, AB
60. THE MOTION IS DUE. PASS TO
THE FLOOR WITH THE CHAIR VOTING
AYE. BAUER KHN BAUER. KHN.
AYE. CASTILLO. NO. CASTILLO. NO.
SO YOU HAVE TO CALL IT OUT.
THAT'S FIVE. AYE. ONE. ONE NOT
VOTING. AND ONE. NO, THAT
PASSES. ALL RIGHT, FILE ITEM
NUMBER TWO, MEASURE AB 638,
AUTHORED BY ASSEMBLY MEMBER
CELESTE RODRIGUEZ. THE MOTION IS
DUE PASSED TO THE COMMITTEE ON
APPROPRIATIONS, WITH THE CHAIR
VOTING AYE. CASTILLO. CASTILLO.
I LEE I LI AYE. AND THAT IS SIX
ZERO. THAT MATTER PASSES 7 TO 0.
EXCUSE ME. ALL RIGHT. FILE ITEM
NUMBER THREE, AB 916, AUTHORED
BY ASSEMBLY MEMBER LEE. THE
MOTION IS DUE. PASS TO THE
COMMITTEE ON HEALTH WITH THE
CHAIR VOTING AYE. MY APOLOGIES.
THAT ONE ALREADY WENT OUT. ALL
RIGHT. GOT IT, GOT IT. ALL
RIGHT. THANK YOU AGAIN,
EVERYONE. WE'RE ADJOURNED.
SAYING SHE DOESN'T HAVE A FEE IN
THE MOST IMPORTANT.